Ok, So What Now For the Arsenal
“Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom.” – George S. Patton
I have no intention of going into the why’s or where’s of the Carling Cup crash. Suffice it to say we lost. Birmingham should be congratulated for playing a full out game. Rather than spend time in trying to figure out who is right or wrong in what happened – I am going to spend my time ponder what’s next for this team, for this fan base and for Arsene Wenger.
The club is still active in three competitions. I mean that not as a boastful pride statement, but as a reality. If the club sits back and dwells on the Carling Cup loss, surely will place some strain on their ability to go through successfully in these other competitions. We talked previously how winning the Carling Cup could be a launching pad for great things. Now the club, the manager and the fan base have to take a negative and turn into a positive – somehow.
Sure seeing a positive from a negative is never easy. Especially, when you are mirred in a negative point of view. Positives are scoffed at, ridiculed as optimistic thinking when none should exist. But as Patton alludes to success can be born from failure.
For Gunners fans, a fan base wanting a trophy to cheer as much as the team, we were looking for a win to give all our doubters and critics one giant “fuck you.” We’ve endured more stick for supporting our team than your average Spurs fan gets for supporting the 2nd best club in North London. Pointing to a new silver trophy would’ve put an end to that. Now we are questioning ourselves and our team. I saw an unprecendented coming together of all sections the fan base. From the die hard, “the club can do no wrong” faction and the “club will fail” faction. Belief was returning once again for the Gooner faithful. Now, it will have to reexamine itself and waves of thinking about the club could very well be hardened yet again.
For the team, the questioning and doubt have to be put aside rather quickly. There are still many competitions to be played and the first one is in the midweek against Leyton Orient in a replay of the 5th round tie that ended in a 1-1 draw. The club can certainly wind up going in a shell and basically tossing all the good that has been achieved this season. They can cede ground in the EPL title race and let Barcelona have their way when the get to Nou Camp and just wrap it up. It is probably what m0re than one pundit and even some our own fans expect.
Or, they can take the adversity and use at as a learning moment. Losing, leaves a very bad taste in anyone’s mouth. They need to let that taste linger, know what it tastes like, spit it the hell out and move on. Sure it’s a cliche but really if this team is going to achieve anything it is what they have to do. They have to use the loss as motivation to carry them on or its the end to the run for them. If they can use it as motivation then there are surely moments they can have that are greater than what they wou;d’ve achieved with the Carling Cup.
For Arsene Wenger, the man is certainly getting a lot of stick, some of it deserved some of it not. A win at the Carling Cup would’ve validated his policies towards running the club. Now he’ll have to endure a continued run of questions and doubt. But Wenger not only has to pull himself together but he has to use every ounce of his ability to keep this team focused on what lies ahead. In honesty his mettle and make up as a manager is about to be called on and challenged. He’ll have the whole off season to address that circumstances of this season.
Finally, I think I want to draw attention to number 53 Wojiech Szczesny. It is very easy right now to lay the blame at his feet or even Laurent Koscielny’s feet. But for Szczesny, at barely 20 years old there are maybe 15 more years left to build glory wearing the Arsenal kit. He is going to have to move on from this and get focused on his next task. Based on what I’ve seen of the lad on the pitch and read via twitter and the press, its no doubt he has the mettle to do so.
Finally, interesting stuff from Bob Wilson on twitter today about the cock up with Koosh and Sneezy –
“Felt for Szczesny/Koscielny. Brought back memories of Ian Ure & yours truly presenting Swindon Town with gift during 1969 League Cup Final. But we learned a lesson & trophies were just around the corner.”
Bob gets it. Let’s hope the team does.
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@sachin,
True Sach the FA Cup will never lose its glamour for the non Euro and EPL title contenders.
It would have been good to have avoided United but the old cliche comes to mind “have to beat the best to be the best.” I also hope Chamankh and Nicky can get in the goalscoring vibe against Orient too.
RVP out 3 weeks … plus.
Amazing.
United lose to Chelsea, and we lose our best scoring option yet again.
We beat Barcelona, then draw with Leyton Fucking Orient, and LOSE to The Brum in a Cup Final.
Its truly been 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
But NOBODY should be surprised at anything that happens on the pitch, or off the pitch as well.
You know the deal the Arsenal FC. It is more important to make money, than to win… its more important to play a nice style, than win…
and we have some fans who really don’t care if we win anything, as long as we play nice… the true style and beauty are gone… the amazing counter attacks, and the breathtaking football is GONE.
But that’s OK with some… and as long as the 60,000 fill the stadium, its OK with the Club too.
Buy a scarf… get the new kit… winning trophies is so over-rated.
With no RVP… we lack a proper striker for the run in for the title, and we can be beaten by anybody.
Do you think Barcelona are worried about the 2nd leg?
DAG my comments are nit appearing nested but at the top of the page on my mobile. I am using Opera on Android.
Also the double comment thing only happens in Internet Explorer I think. I hope that helps.
@Kiwi, I agree with the vast majority of what you say Kiwi. I agree that the FA is not worth much more than the CC in reality but I would not be satisfied with that on it’s own either.
I doubt if there is a true Gooner in this world that would rather us win nothing rather than CC however insignificant it may be.
@arthur3sheds, It has been strange to see the F.A Cup diminish in such a regard. Arsenal owned this cup for a while there but then various constraints meant that Arsenal had to choose competitions, so CL and EPL took precedence. I still feel a tinge of delight at seeing some F.A Cup games, especially when the history highlights are shown. Also, one can’t help be sucked into the spirit of things when interviews with non Premier League teams/fans are shown. For Premier League teams not in European competitions and for non EPL teams, the F.A Cup is the big trophy as they have no European trophy to contend with.
Orient fans will be in sheer awe when they arrive for their game tomorrow yet for Arsenal, the game represents an annoying extra fixture because it is in the way of bigger upcoming games.
I was really hoping that Man Utd would have gotten Man City in the next round but not to be. Arsenal can’t seem to win things in an easy way. But first things first…Orient have to be dispatched and goals need to flow as other people need practice in finding the target.
@vibe4arsenal,
LOL nice one Vibe. But I hate repeating myself. I have written lengthy blogs on my skepticism in regards to the youth policy and its flaws way back from the AA days and the break up of the invincibles. Although I have the utmost respect for the manager of the decade I do not agree with everything he says it does.
Since I have very little respect for you I will often not respond to your negative sarc
asm kindly and when riled I can oh so rude but it is only a blog not real life so do not take it to heart when I refer you back to my original reply :-D There is your smiley, you happy now?
“I have always been a crtic of the youth policy and I am still skeptical of Arsenes vision as I think it is too idealistic.”
Separated from it’s poster, could you guess who said this?
Fred? Mazza? CK? Kiwi? CG? Sach? Danny T? Me?
Is it just me, or coming from Art does quote that read like historical revisionism that even Stalin would admire?
@vibe4arsenal,
Then again, my friend Art says that it’s ridiculous for anyone to suggest Wenger “does not care about trophies”……when he’s on public record poo pooing the league cup’s worth for years AND relegating the importance of the FA Cup in recent years. He is clearly more interested in style and his group of players than he is in winning. If you can’t admit to that then you need to emotionally wean yourself off Wenger teat – but that’s not an easy thing and it happens at different times for us all.
Sadly for Arsenal,Wenger is NO LONGER a winner. It messes with the persona adulation I know but it’s the way it now is. He’ll become a winner if he wins again – until that time he’s a ONCE WAS A WINNER. The league cup was a chance missed to reclaim the higher ground. Sadly, many managers move into this space – they won once but their hey-day passes. History will prove whether this is so with Wenger or whether he has a second period of success. At this juncture, with this team, that looks less likely.
@Kiwi,
Of course he cares about trophies but not neccesarily the CC or FA cup at various stages in his career. Does that mean that he di not want to win the CL or the EPL at those times? I think not “my friend”.
It is also obvious that he wanted to win the CC this year as such we saw a virtual first team in the opening game. So why is that statement so unbelieveable? I think to the contrary it is obvious? So what has Wenger teats go t to do with it?
I will also add the style of football and group of players are the means to the end… the end being success and the ultimate suceess is trophies. Is Wenger so foolish that he does not see that? I think you must have this man down and a complete fool.
As for Wenger is no longer a winner… we shall see!!!
@ArfaSheds,
Aww, touch a nerve, Artie? Where are all those smiley faces you so enjoy. Tch.
No, you don’t need to prove anything to me anymore. You’ve proved it many times over already.
@vibe4arsenal,
Thank you Vibe. I just find you so irritating at times.
No smileys because I meant every word.
@ArfaSheds,
Well, it’s perfectly understandable that you would find me irritating. I mean, what with all my relentless, mindless, cheer leading AKBisms over the years. And you with your clear-headed, consistent criticisms of Wenger. Who can forget all your lengthy diatribes about the Youth Policy and how Wenger was directing the team in a direction that would see the Gunners win nothing for years? It was like you had a crystal ball.
Sadly, your football suss was only to be met by my last resort ‘Doom and Gloomer’ name-calling that must have grown so grating year after year as you were consistently proved right. But, hey, what could I do? Reality didn’t support the nonsense I was spouting, so, all I had was name calling and smiley faces.
As we have such a small group here, it would be foolish of me to try a 180 now and just pretend I was really saying something entirely different all along.
It was you, art. You saw this coming years ago. Goodonya.
And I will not use any smiley faces here, either. Because I mean every word.
Nice article DAG you raised some very good points.
Where do we go from here? To the PL title I hope and we may even get a fluke double like Chelsea did last year because the competition is so poor. I do believe we can beat ManU at Old Trafford…. it is the FA cup after all… who would have thought Brum would beat the Arse at Wembley?
Yes Arsene didnot cover himself in glory after that result, but the major difference between the two sides was form, particularly Ben Foster’s.
It is riduculous for anyone to suggest that Wenger does not care about trophies or was not concerned about winning that match, he is a winner and will win with the red and white once again… and if he doesn’t well my boy Dragan will do it for him :-)
I have always been a crtic of the youth policy and I am still skeptical of Arsenes vision as I think it is too idealistic. However I have been pleasantly suprised at what it has produced, i.e the talent coming through. The youth policy has given us a large squad of capable but inexperienced talent it may have cost us 10s of millions of pounds to bring in such quality. In that respect the youth policy has been fantastic. The problem is how much do we have to lose before that talent we have matures and become winners. Will they even mature at Arsenal or choose to leave for money or success? That would bring the project back to square one again.
Being Kum-by-ya and all that I cannot help but look at the talent that we are going to be blessed with great expectation. I hope Wenger will supplement the squad enough along the way for us to win some major trophies.
Anyway keep it Wengerish… oops I meant keep it Goonerish ;-)
ManUre get overpowered by Chelsea 2-1. Ominous signs that Chelsea are getting their strong man act together again.
I don’t buy all the talk about Chelsea being out of the title race. If they win their game in hand, they’re only 9 points behind with ManUre still to play at the Emirates and Chelsea still to visit Old Trafford. Suddenly it would be game on again with only three points in it.
@Macmac007,
It would be an amazing comeback – still a long shot imo.
But I agree, any side stacked with Chelsea’s experienced pro’s and led by Ancelotti is likely to re-emerge and refind form.
Once again, other results keep us in this title race – a really bizzare league season.
Well we lost the CC, the strange thing is that I am not that bothered or even surprised really. I suppose if I had managed to get tickets and gone I may well have been far more disappointed but hey…. shit happens ;-)
I feared the worst with Cesc out and Rosicky starting as he has been in the worst form I have seen him in. Song too has been in poor form of late too so effectively we had Jack carrying the MF in the first half. In the second half even Jack was lacklustre it was like we had a MF from Div 2.
We could have won the game if Ben Forster hadn’t been so stellar but instead we go down because of a double error from both Kos and Schez. The truth is Brum deserved it more than we did so I suppose justice was done in the end.
If we would have won it would have proven nothing about this squad that we didn’t know already, we know 8 times out 10 we a more than a match for the Brums. The only thing that it seemed to prove is that we have no one to replace Cesc effectively and that includes Nasri in my opinion. Without Cesc and a MF not playing at their best we are little more than average.
@ArfaSheds,
I had hoped that after 6 years we’d finally reached a stage where we could beat a side like Birmingham and win a trophy. So whilst I’m not surprised that we flumped (as is our habit), the optimist that remains alive in me hoped that this might be our re-emergence.
Sadly, it reaffirms that despite all the applause we receive for the style of our football and the rare & wise stewardship of our financial resources the lacks that are deeply rooted in Wenger’s leadership continue to plague us.
@Kiwi, Kiwi we can beat a side like Brum all day, every day…. on most days ;-)
I do not put hte blame on Wenger at all in this instance. He put out a side good enough to beat Brum… they under performed, Brum over performed and we made a suicidal error at the end.
I predicted that we would win the game 4-2 after extra time, I didn’t have faith we would steam roller them in the 90 simply because the absence of our most gifted player and the poor form of the others.
It is easiy for the AHBs to blame Wenger but I did not see Wenger on the pitch playing so poorly of making poor decisions that ended up gifting Brum the winner. People refer to Brum hitting the post but forget Jacks cross bar breaker and a string of outstanding saves from the man of the match. The defeat as disappointing as it was for soem is not such a big deal really.
As a team we neeed to jusst say so what it is just the CC and be evermore hungry to shut the neg heads up and win the PL. The truth is I would not have been satisfied with the CC anyway and I do not think most of our hard to please fans would have settled for it either.
No big deal let’s move on.
@ArfaSheds,
I like to hear your viewpoint Art. It shows that even longstanding Arsenal followers hold differing values on what is “enough” or satisfying.
I would have been happy with the League Cup, for me its a trophy that over the decades has acquired its own identity. For me a trip to Wembley and the prize of entry into a European competition make it very similar to the FA Cup – notwithstanding the laters longer history.
From our position, I hoped for winning the League Cup and winning the title – I thought that was do-able. The FA Cup and Champions League gave us horrid draws and in all honesty were likely to be beyond us given the fixture list and likely injuries etc. Now we’ve missed the most achievable cup and reaffirmed our mental weakness (which needed no affirmation – everyone knows we buckle often).
@Kiwi,
I would have been happy with the league cup too Kiwi, but not satisfied. I get the impression you would have not been satisfied either hence you mention you hope for the PL too.
We all know that we more than a CC team, and we do not need the CC to get to Europe, so it is of no use to us in that respect. The truth is the FA cup has far more prestigious, but I would not have been satiied with that either. Either both the cups or the the PL or CL would satisfy me.
We can kick ManU out of the FA cup witha full strength side in form and with a bit of luck. ManU are oh so beatable right now and we owe them one too it might be our year this time.
@ArfaSheds,
The problem with writing is that it is a one-dimmensional form of communication. And blogging tends to be worse because it’s brief.
If we all could sit and chat we’d likely agree on a lot more than we disagree, alas…..
Sadly, the growth of the Champions League has relegated the importance and grandeur of the FA Cup imo. So, to me, it’s little more noteworthy than the League Cup – it’s a domestic cup with entry to Europe if you need it (which usually big clubs don’t), that’s all. My opinion only.
The pragmatist in me believes that we need trophies to maintain and develop our clubs profile globally. In that regard, winning a League Cup whilst perhaps not a meal akin to the FA Cup is a meal nonetheless. We’ve starved for too long. I have no doubt whatsoever that we have lost ground with new support by going 6 years without a trophy. When you become interested in a new sport for the first time many folk gravitate to the clubs that are winners at that time. We’ve missed 6 years of new fans joining up.
For me personally, I’d feel a lot happier winning the League Cup than winning nothing at all. It seems some (perhaps you Art) don’t feel that way.
Miss Title is begging to be wooed away by Arsenal but alas, Arsenal is having transportation problems getting to her. He does not want to appear too needy for her love, so he is busy trying to always appear in style in his shining car but the car has the worst luck. It breaks down at random periods forcing Arsenal to wait by the road for maintenance. In the meantime, ugly brutes ride past Arsenal in bikes and nasty pollutant cars killing the environment in their attempts to get to her. But Arsenal is a romantic. He knows his true love will wait for him. So he is in no hurry to replace his car.
@Sachin, LOL nice
@ArfaSheds, Thanks Art
@jroybower
I’m fascinated that some folk don’t really care too much about winning competitions. It’s like a bonus perhaps?
@Kiwi, winning a trophy is an artifact of winning in general, if you win a lot more than you lose you’ll probably be rewarded with a trophy. that’s a good thing. i’m totally bummed we came up short and the manner in which we fell short in the CC final. but it’s not the end of the world despite sucking quite a bit.
i’m realistic enough to know that a very small percentage of teams win a “trophy”. in knock-out tournaments you need a little luck sometimes, not have an “off day” and/or need to be miles ahead to win it. history is littered with the best team not winning, especially in tournaments. (full disclosure i’m avid KU b-ball fan, i know about losing with the best team over and over and over again…).
league play is a little different, but the percentages still apply. in 120 years of top division football only 23 clubs have EVER won the league. ManUre went 20+ years without a title, Pool are in a current 20 year drought, Che$ki went 50 years between their first and second, even AFC went more than 15 years without a trophy. shocking i know.
Arsenal are a very good side. on their day one of the very best, but can also look very ordinary at times too. despite our all too frequent “ordinariness” we still (i know it’s hard to believe) have the second best offense in the leauge and are third best in defense?!?!? the team ahead of us in the leauge isn’t the best in both categories either.
we are there or there abouts year in and year out in the league and the CL and can usually put together a decent cup run along the way. i’d much rather watch us play, compete, and occassionally win against the best rather than go through boom and bust cycles. and right now a “bust” for us is 3rd or 4th and not getting through to the knock-out stages of CL.
i know, i know. if we only had a better mix of players or better players or bigger squad etc etc etc than we’d be first and win everything everytime. of course that is just conjecture you can’t KNOW it would be different. Citeh and Che$ki have “world class” squads with pedigree and lots of “winners” and “experience”. as they say, the table doesn’t lie. that doesn’t mean we can’t/won’t totally bottle it and finish in 4th or, egad, 5th. so all you chicken littles relax the sky isn’t falling.
@Kiwi, winning a trophy is an artifact of winning in general, if you win a lot more than you lose you’ll probably be rewarded with a trophy. that’s a good thing. i’m totally bummed we came up short and the manner in which we fell short in the CC final. but it’s not the end of the world despite sucking quite a bit.
i’m realistic enough to know that a very small percentage of teams win a “trophy”. in knock-out tournaments you need a little luck sometimes, not have an “off day” and/or need to be miles ahead to win it. history is littered with the best team not winning, especially in tournaments. (full disclosure i’m avid KU b-ball fan, i know about losing with the best team over and over and over again…).
league play is a little different, but the percentages still apply. in 120 years of top division football only 23 clubs have EVER won the league. ManUre went 20+ years without a title, Pool are in a current 20 year drought, Che$ki went 50 years between their first and second, even AFC went more than 15 years without a trophy. shocking i know.
Arsenal are a very good side. on their day one of the very best, but can also look very ordinary at times too. despite our all too frequent “ordinariness” we still (i know it’s hard to believe) have the second best offense in the leauge and are third best in defense?!?!? the team ahead of us in the leauge isn’t the best in both categories either.
we are there or there abouts year in and year out in the league and the CL and can usually put together a decent cup run along the way. i’d much rather watch us play, compete, and occassionally win against the best rather than go through boom and bust cycles. and right now a “bust” for us is 3rd or 4th and not getting through to the knock-out stages of CL.
i know, i know. if we only had a better mix of players or better players or bigger squad etc etc etc than we’d be first and win everything everytime. of course that is just conjecture you can’t KNOW it would be different. Citeh and Che$ki have “world class” squads with pedigree and lots of “winners” and “experience”. as they say, the table doesn’t lie. that doesn’t mean we can’t/won’t totally bottle it and finish in 4th or, egad, 5th. so all you chicken littles relax the sky isn’t falling.
So Robin’s out for “at least 3 weeks” – given Wenger’s penchant for understatement of the bad and overstatement of the good you can assume he’ll be out for more than 3 weeks and then as Sachin says he’ll take a little while to get back into form. So he’s out for March perhaps longer and then he’ll take several games to go in the groove.
For those who can, reflect for a moment. Robin’s a starter, the focal point of Arsenal’s attack post-Henry, and yet this season he’s started only 9 EPL games. Over seven years he averages 14 starts per season – that’s just over a third of EPL games. He’s only cracked 20+ starts once. And he’s our focal point. How do you win anything with that limited contribution and the disruption it causes? I’m sorry to offend the sensitive ears of those fans who want to fawn Robin but there is a direct correlation between his rise in importance (post-Bergkamp & Henry) and our inability to win anything.
When I helicopter above the grim here-and-now impact I’m fascinated by the human capacity to see what it wants to see. Even now, after 7 seasons of Robin and his injury marred breakdowns, I read todays blogs and see the many many people wanting to minimise the impact. That’s amazing. It’s there for all to read – aggressively attacking anyone who suggests this latest injury is a pattern with macro implications. Yikes, the human condition is so emeshed in emotion over dispassionate analysis.
No doubt we’ll do it again, banking next season on Robin van Persie at the apex. Then the inevitable happens……press repeat.
@Kiwi, how does Arsenal sell him in such a state? Who would want him now? Maybe few years ago, Bayern should have gotten him. Since Arsenal have been in transition for the last 5 years and will be for another 3, then his departure would not have changed anything a year or two ago. Maybe Bayern could still be persuaded as they have waited for both Ribery and Robben to be fit, they can now add RVP to their injury list — triple R, great talent when not injured and fit.
The mood of Arsenal supporters after the game ranged from utter shock, silent disappointment and that of a lynch mob in search of Arsene, with the latter being the predominant mood.
I saw a few shirts thrown away and I learned quite a few new cuss words. It was not nice and I could easily see the potential for violence if the Birmingham supporters were mixed into our crowd.
I think our fans tend to forgive once we turn in another glorious performance.
@Caribkid,
Thanks CK that’s interesting to get your ‘live’ perspective. My reaction was utter shock – it was as giant a cock-up as you see in pro sport. Last minutes, total balls-up, terminal, opens us up for micky-taking for years.
@Caribkid, thanks CK. Yes, I am sure after a 3-0 home win, most fans will be ready for the glorious future again and indeed forgive.
Long live the myth! When RVP is back, he will take some time to settle again and by the time he is ready, the season would be over. If there were was a fixture which needed every Arsenal player fit, it has to be the Nou Camp. But not to be, again. All one can hope for is the first choice CBs for that game are fit.
@Sachin,
Yup, RvP is NEVER available for any season important crunch moments. Nothing shocking here.
By the time he comes back from his “three” weeks injury, we would have been knocked out from all the competitions. Then he will spend the 3-4 weeks getting back to fitness…. before jetting off to get injured with the Dutch national team in the summer.
Things never change.
Just our luck. Van P. crocked for three weeks. But of course why worry – this means Bendtner now has a clear run to stake his claim as first choice target man.
“It doesn’t matter about titles or if they win or lose.”
This made me cringe when I read it, because it comes from someone who is a personal friend of Wenger’s. So it’s more than likely that he did not develop this attitude and this view of Arsenal independently, but developed it by talking to and spending time with Wenger. If that’s the attitude of a team’s coach, we’ll, you’re screwed….
But this next quote pissed me off even more:
“Everyone in the world should agree that Arsenal is one of the best teams and play the most beautiful football.”
Notice he does not say ‘Arsenal IS one of the best in the world,” but rather “everyone SHOULD see them as one of the best.’ Listen pal, if you have to go around trying to convince people of that fact, then it ain’t true.
But Arsenal are hardly the first club to try and puff up their status and importance within the game. What pisses me off is the attitude that others should naturally defer to Arsenal, and consider them one of the best, even though Arsenal have never proven it on the pitch. Like so many of our soft, soft players, he wants respect and deference without doing the necessary legwork to earn it. Much as some of the players expected to win the CC by showing up, he expects people to consider Arsenal one of the best just by being near the top of the league, by being in the CL- not by winning either.
When I read the quote (at least the way I perceive its tone) it seems as thought he’s not only trying to convince doubters out there of Arsenal’s prominence, but he is also somewhat scolding them for not believing it- much as certain fans (and perhaps Wenger himself) get mad at other fans who don’t see Arsenal the way they do. This last point here is obviously highly subjective, since I am basing a lot of it on my own perceived tone of the quote, which is obviously not entirely possible when reading it and not hearing it.
@ChicagoGooner,
Yup, the sheer arrogance is just astounding.
This clown says we “play the best football in the world”.
Delusional much?
“Every year, I go to London for a few days to spend with him to have lunch and talk about football as he is a person who lives the game 24 hours a day so it is very easy and enjoyable to talk about football with him. My wish one day is to work in England. Arsenal would be perfect after Arsene. Wishing is one thing but reality is another. One day, one of my dreams is, if Arsene agrees, I could become a special advisor and sit on the bench. I like their style, I like how they play. It doesn’t matter about titles or if they win or lose but the style of this football and beauty they produce every week is amazing, absolutely amazing and everyone in the world should agree that Arsenal is one of the best teams and play the most beautiful football.”
Wenger MkII, Dragan Stojkovic
______________________________________
So there you go. From the mouth of Piksi the man Wenger wants as his replacement. Oh joy. Titles, winning, losing doesn’t matter – just the style.
How many here agree?
@Kiwi, I know many local fans in my city who would agree. In fact, for the last few years, the pub has contained many fans who take each defeat calmly and say “I believe in Wenger’s long term vision”. And the ones that don’t seem to agree get more animated, angry and frustrated every year. It is hard for me to say what the ratio is but there are many who now stay quiet and many others who get violently upset. It is easy to spot those who get upset as they are the most vocal while those that agree with the vision don’t seem to say much unless talked to.
I really would like to know what the ratio is among those 60,000 fans who attend the games week in week out as they are the ones who can make a visible statement. Nothing like the Eboue booing will ever take place again, or if it does, will it mean anything? Or will those fans who boo be stripped of their season ticket?
Didn’t Wenger once say a man was not a real fan for questioning Arsenal’s credentials after a Chelsea defeat? The definition of a fan has been changed by Wenger and Arsenal, which is why those who question Wenger or his player’s performance (such as Silvestre) are not called true fans or whatever else Wenger says.
I would not be surprized if a proper screening of fans will start taking place if discontent exists in the terraces…
@Kiwi,
Arsene Wenger = Hosni Mubarak
Dragan Stojkovic = Gamal Mubarak
This dictatorial succession must NOT happen.
We can’t get rid of Wenger soon enough.
@Kiwi, titles? would be nice, so we’ve got something to collect dust in the cabinet and we can walk around with our chests out telling everyone how great our team is…
winning? sure that would be great. of course the implication of your statement is that we don’t win games. i’m pretty sure we could all agree that is completely untrue, perhaps we don’t win some of the games we should, but we also win a few that we shouldn’t. but not winning, really??!!?? don’t kid yourself.
losing? it happens, to everyone. very rarely is anyone perfect, we have the good fortune to remember a team that was…
style? an added bonus and makes both winning and losing more bearable. sacrfice at the expense of winning? probably shouldn’t.
don’t get me wrong there are plenty of places for improvement in the team and the club, but let’s be real, we don’t have it that bad “supporting” the Arsenal.
@Kiwi, titles? would be nice, so we’ve got something to collect dust in the cabinet and we can walk around with our chests out telling everyone how great our team is…
winning? sure that would be great. of course the implication of your statement is that we don’t win games. i’m pretty sure we could all agree that is completely untrue, perhaps we don’t win some of the games we should, but we also win a few that we shouldn’t. but not winning, really??!!?? don’t kid yourself.
losing? it happens, to everyone. very rarely is anyone perfect, we have the good fortune to remember a team that was…
style? an added bonus and makes both winning and losing more bearable. sacrfice at the expense of winning? probably shouldn’t.
don’t get me wrong there are plenty of places for improvement in the team and the club, but let’s be real, we don’t have it that bad “supporting” the Arsenal.
@jroybower,
“We don’t have it that bad” Hell of terrace-chant, that.
You don’t place much value on trophies. No more value than as dust collectors and chest inflators.
Huh.
And here I’ve always thought trophies were actually what the top clubs were actually playing for. You know, the ultimate object of why they do what they do.
Those idiots at United. Always having to dust and buy bigger shirts. They just don’t get it.
Urgh. I’m still dissecting the defeat as if it will dull the pain.
The rosy view is that it was only a slip-up that cost us the game. But as we all seem to agree, B’ham worked their socks off and were there to pounce at the vital moment. None of us begrudge their victory, especially given the ref’s decisions in the 2nd minute.
It’s sad because the first 11 were really stepping up this season. Even Arshavin has fought his way back to form, carving out that cross for Van P. to slam home.
I agree that the substitutions and tactics were mystifying. Arshavin should have stayed on, not Rosicky, who’s 10% under par all round (age, post-injury form, it doesn’t really matter). And Chamakh shouldn’t even have been on the bench given his current form.
Nasri needed to freed up to attack down the middle in the absence of Cesc, not loiter on the wings.
Song must have sent half a dozen passes astray.
And of course our otherwise impressive new keeper finally commits a howler when there’s no time to rectify it.
Losing Van P. is the final straw. Without him, Cesc and Theo we’re going to crumble like a mud hud over the next two weeks.
I’m guessing that if you mixed in a circle that knew Wenger, like the board, then there would be an almost holy reverence around the man. Is this healthy? Probably not. Although it’s a great gig for Wenger.
Sachin, to answer the question – which I know is rhetorical – yes I do believe Wenger is largely beyond questioning by the board. As best I can make out, when David Dein was removed the link between Wenger and the board was severed and Wenger’s autonomous operating space became almost complete. With Dein gone who is going to challenge anything he does? Who on the board is close to the playing side of things? Who chats with Wenger regularly? Who would offer a reality check to his romantic vision? Who on the board sees Arsenal like a fan….like Dein?
So………
We the fans “suck it up” to use modern parlance. It’s all about Wenger and his vision. If ya don’t like it too bad. Watching the kids grow and experimenting with a pedestrian close passing style are the agenda not winning.
I’m interested in the feelings of those who typically feel positive about where we are headed. Guys like Art and Andez. This feels like such a seminal moment.
@Kiwi, Interestingly, it has felt like a suck it up moment for a few years now and each year confirms that. However, each season has put forth the notion that Arsenal have been soooooo close to glory if it weren’t for bad luck or injuries. Even this season, that same notion could play out as after Chelsea’s bad run, Arsenal have emerged as the only team to stand in the way of yet another Man Utd title. I feel that at the very least, Arsenal will finish 2nd this season. In fact, if Arsenal don’t win a trophy this year and finish 2nd, Wenger and the board will simply point to the success of this year and end all arguments for any change because of the following:
— Until this year, Arsenal’s last cup final was in 2007, also in the CC.
— Arsenal have not finished second since 2005 (hmm, also last trophy season).
I can’t see how Wenger and the board would ever see 2nd place and another cup final as a failure given that they have not been in that spot in 6 years.
In fact, when the new stadium was build, the objective set to Wenger was to finish 4th and ride out things until the financial side was stable and then challenge for trophies. Wenger achieved that 4th place target and almost came close to the title in 2008. And given how this season has gone, if Arsenal finish 2nd in the league, Wenger would be right on track to challenge for titles as per the board.
Yet, if one looked at various poor performances of Arsenal and factor in how Man Utd and Chelsea have not been on the same level as few seasons ago, then Arsenal’s current success seems to diminish a little. But looking at the financial books and a glance at the league table seems to indicate that Wenger is still meeting all his objectives.
It will not be long before the pleas go out to Nasri and Cesc to believe in the vision and not leave in the summer. And if Cesc goes, he will not be replaced. He can’t really be replaced but Wenger will make do with what he is and young Ramsey will be moulded into Cesc’s new role.
It is remarkable but I cannot see anything forcing Wenger to ever change his ways and focus on the defensive coaching and finally put in a plan B. Not when the vision is holding strong.
@sachin, no edit..meant to see a first cup final in 4 years and a 2nd place in 6 years
The loss is bad but made much worse by the manner of that gift and the fact that this is not the first time Arsenal have dished out such a gift. Before, giving away 2 goals (even in the last minute) seemed the worst but this season even that has been topped by 4 goal surrender. I can’t blame individual mistakes anymore as it does not matter who plays for Arsenal, sooner or later they will make an error. It could be a young player or an experienced hand but both will demonstrate a moment of panic. Yet, the problem seems to go untreated. If Arsenal were run like a normal company, sooner or later, someone higher up would have questioned the pattern that clearly exists in varying shades of unmotivated performances, panic mistakes under no pressure or the injury bug.
Is Wenger beyond questioning from by the board? Evidence would seem to suggest so.
Or are the board plain happy with footballing profits and the fact that seats are filled?
Will things change in the summer when Pat Rice is gone or will then even get worse when Wenger will be given the choice to bring in a yes man and yet again a chance at basic defensive training is foregone? I am sure Keown could give a few basic classes for free in positioning and motivational speaking. Ofcourse, no one at the club has asked him or will do so because the future is so bright.
There never is any time in the season for introspection because another big game is always days away which will provide another chance to “showcase the mental strength” and “attitude” of this team. No chance for it in the summer either because Wenger is busy with World Cups, Euros or analyzing the pitch conditions in Austria. Buying the best defenders in the world still won’t be enough if no coaching is given. What might help if any future Arsenal signing is forced to go through GG school of training but such a thing won’t happen.
@Sachin,
Is Pat Rice really leaving this summer? If so, that is just one less check on Wenger.
@ChicagoGooner, I am not sure anymore. I thought it was certain but it may just be another rumour like back in 2009. I think Rice is a yes man but he has a history with the club and a love for Arsenal. If he does go, I see Wenger as getting someone with no history of the club and a pure yes man who nods for everything.
I could get into the name the blame game.
I could criticize Arsene for taking off his two most dangerous and creative players in Arshavin and RVP and bringing in two subs who have never played well together in an Arsenal uniform, I could criticize Rosicky for having zero impact over 90 minutes.
I could criticize DJ for leaving RVP to defend Zigic, CZ for coming out prematurely, Koz for making a hash of a clearance and I could criticize Arsenal for losing to a team who they should beat with a B team.
But, Birmingham beat us fair and square. We could easily have been 10 men down a few minutes into the game, our wood work was rattled a few times and Birmingham had their share of good chances.
Yes, I really could play the name game. Sitting with Tim from 7AM at the Swan Pub at Lancaster Gate, commiserating our loss with more than a few pints, and watching a group of Birmingham supporters celebrate 30 years of frustration brought me back down to earth immediately.
Yes, we may have a bright future, but if our present does not give us the capacity to beat a Birmingham, Arsenal needs to take a hard look at our obvious problems and try to eliminate them. I am constantly reminded of the great Dutch teams of the 70’s who failed to win the WC.
We have potential, but when will this potential convert to success?
@Caribkid, CK what was the mood of the Arsenal crowd at the end?
Carlos saves the day for West Brom again.
82nd minute sub – gets the equalizer against Stoke and forces Begovic to make two outstanding saves on potential winners.
Seriously – we should get him back and he should only come on past the 80th minute. He is absolutely getting it done as a super sub.
Welcome to the new guys posting…..
@Kiwi,
Doesn’t look like we picked up any new AKBers in the bunch. Funny thing.
Setting aside the rather large issue of our mental strength (or lack of).
I think the seasons on the edge. We could quickly depart the CL and FA Cup due to the quality of the opposition. In the league, Manchester United look less inspiring (in names and style) than usual but worryingly determined and well-built for the grind. Our ability to last the pace seems to be fraying a little – RvP, Fabregas and Walcott are undoubtedly better on the pitch than off it and yet all are showing signs of crocking in the clutch (again) – and remember all have played relatively little games this season due to late starts and injury. (DAG there’s a topic for discussion sometime around the crocks and their progress/contribution/or otherwise)
If RvP returns to his most familiar surrounding (the treatment room) then the team will morph again to a different shape. Ironically I think we’re better off having RvP out altogether rather than an in-and-out saga. The presence of Chamakh and Bendtner (and absence of RvP) will force the team to become more direct. Might it work? Interesting that the return of RvP has fundamentally jettisoned the games of Chamakh & Bendtner (maybe another topic DAG).
Fabregas hammies are a worry, but he’s not alone in having this recurring problem. I follow other sports and some players just seem to have this issue and it has to be managed (i.e. as opposed to cured per se). He could have played in the Final and I think it shows Wenger’s dismissive attitude toward that competition that he chose to keep him out AND to remove Robin van Persie when he could have played on. Look at the Birmingham walking wounded, that’s what it means to hunger for the win. And don’t say we have more riding on the remainder of the season – Birmingham have to fight a relegation battle with a smaller squad.
In some ways, as much as I badly wanted us to win the Cup, I think there is a sense of “take-that”, a higher retribution in us losing. Wenger has treated the competition as inconsequential and I think he stills views it that way. So, for us to lose, is lifes way of rubbing his Gallic nose in his own arrogance.
@Kiwi,
Funny your last part there. Wenger has spent so many years not focusing on the League Cup that this year’s focus was sort out of sorts.
I always felt he was like we’re here and we might as well do it. But I would gather if he had his druthers he wouldn’t care what the result was.
The prizes of his own choice are always going to be the CL and EPL title. Everything else, if it happens is gravy.
@DaAdminGooner, I think you’re right, Wenger does see it that way.
But he’s wrong, his view is not in alignment with the fans. Fans want glory, they want to celebrate, they want to talk about “do you remember….”. Birmingham are celebrating – we’re embarrassed and frustrated. The FA Cup and the League Cup are part of English football, an opportunity to win and celebrate. If you treat them as being of little consequence it shows you’ve lost your bearings on what football is all about. I think Wenger has become increasingly myopic, even obsessive, on what he thinks over what his fanbase wants.
How many trophies have been painted on the magnificent Arsenal Stadium since it was built? Where’s the glory and celebration?
@Kiwi,
It’s funny because Mourinho had a similar disdain for the FA Cup and League Cup akin to Wenger’s however, what jose gets that maybe is lost on Wenger – winning something begets more winning of something (most likely bigger than what you just won).
Jose got his 2005 Chelsea squad to win that Carling Cup and look at what it launched for them.
Now maybe Bob Wilson is right – maybe the Gunners will learn from this and trophies are around the corner – right now though, Gooners would’ve been happy with the Carling Cup.
@DaAdminGooner,
….is it a corner or a circle? We’ve been hearing that line for a while.
Indeed, Mourinho like Ferguson have always retained a sense of pragmatism (and with Ferguson a high sense of style). They know that winning is the objective. Wenger seemed to understand this as well, he achieved the winning thing (1998-2005) and then sucumbed to his deeply held romantic vision of developing a young team playing a unique style that ultimately dominates football.
@Kiwi,
I think it is a case of Wenger being more cebrebral in his approach where Fergie and Mourinho are just outright ruthless when it comes to winning.
Based on the evidence being ruthless has its benefits.
@DaAdminGooner,
Agree.
Then again, why wouldn’t you be ruthless when its professional sport and managers and players get millions?
@DaAdminGooner,
I felt like there was a little more conscious effort to go for it this season. Not because he has anymore respect for it, but as if the board said “You know, AW, the natives are getting a little restless. Could you maybe give the whole ‘Minor Cup/Minor effort thing a rest this year. Just winning anything would take some heat off; slow down the beat of angry drums.’
And it would have, too.
@vibe4arsenal,
I agree.
Thing is, we still didn’t really “go for it” (to quote a much eulogised Frenchman). We wanted to win whilst resting Fabregas and withdrawing van Persie who received a knock (poor thing). A bit like our approach to Leyton Orient (their chairman said as much). Wenger gambles in many ways – these days they don’t come off.
@Kiwi,
Couldn’t agree more. The way in which we went for it couldn’t help but betray Wenger’s real feelings. And, frankly, he got the result he deserved, as you allude above.
I really wanted us to win, but I didn’t feel as horrible as some on here when it didn’t happen. As a fan of sport, it was hard not to admire Birmingham’s effort, Foster’s steel, in particular. Their sheer exuberance in winning…that was nice to see. As one of the commentators said, Would Arsenal have looked as joyful? Enjoyed it as much?
Of course not. And that says a lot about the rot that’s been fed into the AFC culture. The club (Management, some players) thinks it’s too good for things that, in truth, it’s not at all good enough for.
Look at how Jack took the loss. Gutted, truly. But also young enough not to have been fully infected yet. I truly hope he doesn’t learn much from Wenger.
@vibe4arsenal, Interesting. If you look at the way the goal was gifted, it looks like plain bad luck or as you said in the last post, shit happens? It may just be the perfect way for Wenger and the board to have lost a cup final because it does nothing to dampen their vision and sell job. That sell job would have taken a minor kink if Bham had scored a nice goal and not hit the post.
@sachin,
“It may just be the perfect way for Wenger and the board to have lost a cup final because it does nothing to dampen their vision and sell job.”
Look at the history, Sach. Even as reflected here on YAMA (among the AKBers). Nothing that *ever* happens ‘dampens the vision and sell’ job. There’s always an excuse. The pitch, the officials, shit happens, et al. It just happened that this time ‘the shit’ was in neon highlighted by fireworks.
The real issues are always papered over. Full steam ahead, as always.
@vibe4arsenal,
To be honest I still feel like the attempts were half hearted. I mean come on Rosicky in the middle when he could go with RvP, Arshavin and Bendy up front and Nasri slotting into the Cesc spot.
To me that reaked of a half-hearted attempt.
Look I am not of the ilk that Wenger should be run out of town. I do feel he gets things wrong and I also feel he believes the own hype on the Le Professeur thing. I do with a little less Professor and a little more jack the Ripper at this point.
@DaAdminGooner,
Agree DAG. Vibe described the boardroom discussion in classic style. Wenger’s committed to his dream not to winning the League Cup. The final was merely a means to get the monkey off his back. But he’s still there, grinning, moving up and down, chattering, pealing the banana and drooping the skin over Wenger’s furrowed brow.
I must confess, I thought he was right to start with Rosicky (and remember I wanted Tomas gone 2 years ago – still do – and my assertion looks well founded). But for this match Tomas should have been a satisfactory replacement for Fabregas. Truth is deeper, on the day without Fabregas we looked a little weak. I don’t see that as Tomas fault per se more-so a further statement that we aren’t as good as Wenger says and we have mental health issues.
@DaAdminGooner,
Our posts must have crossed, as you can see I agree. Sad that a half-arsed attempt represented an upgrade.
@DaAdminGooner, I didn’t get why Nasri was not played in the middle either. It is a clear that Rosicky is nowhere close to the player he once was but him playing in a role not suited to him just made his weaknesses seem even more apparent.
The problem is Wenger – short and simple – to compete at the top you need top class players – and a system that works. Our system is a condensed 4-5-1 with NO WINGERS & NO STRIKER TO HOLD THE BALL UP.
1)This is why Arsenals players are always playing in tight spaces – theres no width to our game and theres no striker to aim for.
2)This is why we never shoot – Rosicky, Nasri, Arshavin, Fabrgas & Walcott et al – are all attacking midfielders – but are not out and out strikers – if you want goals use strikers – its why theyre CALLED strikers. To have forwards to hold up the ball also takes pressure off the defence and gives midfielders something to aim for.
3)Why is everyone surprised about yesterday? We’ve been struggling all season against the likes of Ipswich (who at the time were on an 8 gamme BEATEN run), Huddersfield, Leeds, Leyton Orient…we’ve lost at home to West Brom, Newcastle & Spurs (after being 2-0 up!). We struggled in a poor Champions League group. We capitulated against Wigan & Newcastle away. We barely hung on to Stoke the other night….! Why, after deservedly losing to a highly compeitive Birmingham are we NOW surprised??
4) Our defence is a shambles –
Szczesny – He wasnt just at fault for the goal. He would have given a penalty away if it wasnt off offside. He was caught flapping at a couple of corners and for the Zigic goal – as the old saying goes – if you come for it you better get it. If he stayed on his line he would have caught the ball easily. But he was too cocksure – and was left flapping as Zigic headed into an empty net. (Just like Huth should have done for Stoke the other night). He was also 50% to blame for the winner – He should have burst a lung at Koscielny. The boy needs time, but we should hav a 28+ year old world class keeper – not a kid.
Sagna had a very poor game yesterday – gave the ball away cheaply for the first goal – but in general he’s our best defender – but his crossing is poor.
Clichy is just not a defender – he’ responsible for so much calamity at the back and Wenger needs to buy a proper left back in the summer – Gibbs looks unsure too.
Koscielny is out of his depth and should be back up at best to to commanding central defenders.
Djourou is coming on but needs to be alot more commanding and raise his voice alot more. Would I rate him in the Tony Adams/Martin Keown mould – not on your life.
Alex Song is not good enough as a defensive midfielder – he gives the ball away too easily and isnt quick enough at closing players down.
Denilson is not worth mentioning – I simply feel ill when hes on the pitch.
5)But how are we doing so well you may ask? We’ve been lucky enough to gain alot of our points from the sheer brilliancce of a few individuals – Fabregas, Wilshere, Nasri, Van Persie & Arshavin (& Chamakh in the first 10 games) have contributed hugely to our success in terms of goals, assists and gneral play. The fall off then to the likes of Rosicky, Bendtner, Denilson, Clichy, Squillaci, Diaby, Koscielny etc is HUGE.
Then there are players who are very inconsistent – Song, Walcott, Sagna etc…
In all honesty we wont win a trophy this season – just be prepared for the heartache of losing to Man Utd in the FA CUP – and then limply handing them the Premier League. A vastly average and utterly beatable Man Utd. A Man Utd that the Arsenal of 6/7/8 yars ago would have destroyed.
Where will we go then? What will Fabregas do? What about Van Persie? Will the fans continue to show blind allegiance?
One things for sure – The Wenger Experiment cant go on forever.
@ vibe4arsenal, I love your turn of phrase Vibe…… a little humour is good for the soul in these grim times :-)
@Kiwi,
Aw, well thank you, Kiwi. I enjoy YAMA for the way you (and others) offer intelligent, clear-headed analysis of all aspects of the club. The comedy mostly comes from Wenger.
@vibe4arsenal,
I never offer that. I am just a raging lunatic. :yawn:
There’s a danger in trying to analyse the game and identify why we lost, by looking for specifics it can mask the macro picture. Ultimately, over this six year period Arsenal fail to deliver on each ocassion that they get close. Simple excuses aside, why is this the case? If we were a young side in 2007 are we still young in 2011 four years later? Arsene Wenger will publicly deflect any such questions – and to a degree that is what you expect. But for all those that love the club you need to muse a little on these things.
Since the break-up of the last successful team we’ve struggled to demonstrate that quality that gets you over the line and makes you THE winner. From the champions league final in 2006, to the league cup final in 2007, to the title race that fizzed in 2008, to yesterdays effort in 2011, all of these disappointing milestones highlight a little lack, a quality that isn’t quite there, we find ways to express it but ultimately its all the same – it’s that mix of both determination and skill that enables a team to find answers that the situation requires and be the winner. Yesterday was a chance to do that – we missed it….again.
There is now much talk of dusting ourselves off and moving on. And in a sense we have little choice. However there is a sense of an empty ring to the exhortation – if we’d won before and this was a blip, then ok. But sadly there is a little pattern happening here and on the major ocassions it looks no closer to being broken.
@Kiwi,
You forgot the 09 FAC and CL semis.
Someone should go out there and teach Clichy about the offside rule. The number of times he has destroyed our trap with his brainfarts – whilst going completely unpunished is astonishing.
He should also be recipient of an Ashley Cole airgun shot for every time he needlessly fouls an opposition player – going absolutely nowhere.
————————————————————
Surely at this point, everyone recognizes that Rosicky has truly reached the end of the road.
We need a massive clearout of players this summer. Unfortunately, nobody will want to take on his 75k per week wages!!
@Fred,
Also it doesnt look like Chamakh is ever going to score again.
The guy hasnt had a legit shot on target in months!
A day latter, the embarassment hasnt subsided. The BBC is already lauding McLeish as some tactical genius! FFS!
Well, I guess compared to Wenger he is!
I have said this several times, we do NOT deploy any tactics or schemes in our games. We have no defensive tactics or drills, we have no offensive tactics or schemes to laser on to opponents weaknesses, no repeatable, innovative or evolving attacking framework.
For us, our play is just completely random … and that in a nutshell is why we are always the victims of random play. Wenger pretty much just teaches them pass/move then sends them onto to pitch to wing it!
If everything goes well and our team plays well, the opposition is too befuddled by basic pass and move and we win. Otherwise absolutely no plan B. The opposing LB or CB might be limping with injury BUT we will NEVER target him. We never try to expose specific weaknesses or anything borderline complicated.
Just simple – pass, move and hope for the best!
——————————————————————–
If Wenger is not an absolutely arrogant cunt (which he is) he would go out, get a defensive coach and get a tactician as assistant manager.
Most pure tacticians never become managers and most managers are not that great in tactics. It is NO shame to bring someone in to help out a GLARING WEAKNESS.
Even Ferguson brought in Queroz for the express aim of shoring up tactics. All the top managers in the world have done the same thing from time to time.
Wenger’s knowledge of tactics can be summarized by the following points:
1) Make a substitution at 70 minutes. No matter the scenario.
2) Stick with your usual formation – regardless of players – hence the nonsense of having Bendtner continually on the wings when their CB was limping, amongst other snafus.
3) Hope for the best.
Wenger will never bring in anybody to help because he is too proud and arrogant.
Wenger will never bring in the quality/experience players to add quality and depth because he is too stubborn and arrogant.
Wenger will never win anything at Arsenal again.
2014 (when this clown leaves) can’t come fast enough.
@Fred,
I’d be happy if he just brought in someone who can teach defense on set-pieces. Pathetic how that’s been yet another problem gone unsolved for six years now.
come on people, ok we “lost” one, still 3 more to go.
get behind the team.
//
i got the impression we were trying to save energy for the extra time, which backfired, instead of trying to win the game in normal time.
@gooner, I got the impression that the team thought they would win by simply showing up and that Birmingham would roll over when faced with the mighty Arsenal. I lay that at Wenger’s feet for not properly motivating the team. Hell, just show the team a highlight reel of Lee Bowyer fouling people “A Clockwork Orange” style. That should be enough to do it.
Please see my comments at the top (bottom?) of the previous thread….
The result was unthinkable and yet it happened. Many will not forgive it unless we win one of the other prizes and the obstacles are A LOT bigger than Birmingham City…..
Sneezy and Kos are good enough to overcome the gaffe, but others might need to take their turn. Additionally, the injuries are piling up and we’ll need players to get fit AND step up (without f**king up) sooner than later. At least Orient on Wednesday presents an oppourtunity for both: We can lose and avoid ManU in the next round and identify additional liabilities OR some boys can step up and win that one for us. Please Leyton Orient, don’t roll over and let us advance without a real fight!
Sunderland at home is a tough match as they outplayed us (before and after Cesc got hurt) AND took points from us at the death. They do not fear road matches against the bigger teams (Their 3-nil drubbing of Chelsea at Stamford Bridge initiated that team’s tumble from grace….) I fear that a central MF of Diaby, Denilson and Song or Wilshere will beat Orient but then AW will try Rosicky again (who is old and frail and can only play once a week) vs Sunderland and we all saw how that went yesterday. (And didn’t TR7 miss a Pen that would’ve sealed the victory in the away match?)….
But even if that goes OK we’ll wheel out the crocked for Barca away (in an effort to keep it close for the first half hour?) and lose Cesc/RVP/Theo and/or Vermaelen for the rest of the season….And giftwrap the title (and FA cup) to a ManU team that is almost being remade in our own image (Getting 80 million pounds for C. Ronaldo was good business, and it allows them to buy lesser ones for 25 or 30 at a time….we operate at a slightly lower level, but then have our esteemed academy to draw upon….And maybe if Cesc is able to perform at the Nou Camp we can REALLY cash in….and we maybe need to because, on top of the CC loss, we also are posting a financial one!!!)
Naturally, I hope my scenario is wrong. I want to remain hopeful (and “supportive”), but in the bright light of a Monday morning, even for me, it’s tough…..
@highburyterracesteve, Edit function still not working, so pardon the winky faces that come up with the wrong combo of parentheses and dot, dot, dots……
Also, welcome to new posters…..
We should fight for de league
But if we have to lose a cup final for every new young player we have in our team how are we ever going to move forward!
People talk about learning and going forward… but when we continue to lose older more established players who lose cup finals and then the new young players lose cup finals – where is it going to end?
There is a mental flaw inherent within this teams psychology and it is not being addressed – yes our defence has not been bad this year, but we all called for defenders and keepers in the summer and january and now look at what inexperience has cost us!
We didn’t face united, chelsea or city in the competition, only a spurs side who like us were not playing at full strength. We will not get a better chance to win a competition and indeed have not had one so good since 2005 yet this best squad ever continually lets us down.
then wenger says we have to get the players up again… what about the fans… why does this man detest us so much that in 5 years it has always been about his players and never about us!
@mystery,
Not sure I buy the Wenger detests fans line here. A manager has responsbility for everyone. But his immediate responsibility is to his players – he has to get them ready for a match that was 72 hours away from the one they just lost.
@DaAdminGooner,
I agree that ‘detests’ is the wrong word. I do think it’s fair to say he has some contempt, largely for those supporters who don’t genuflect in his direction. But the contempt is growing mutual, so let’s call that a ‘push’.
It’s also fair to say he’s not remotely interested in what fans want, but I’m not sure why anyone would expect otherwise.
League is really the only chance left.
We aren’t winning the CL, and United away … not happening either in the FA Cup.
We’ll only have the league matches soon enough.
But we could go 10 more years with no trophies, and that would be just fine for some.