Clash of the Titans – Er, Well Sort Of.
Let's Get It On!!!
There was a time in the not so distant past when a gathering of Arsenal and Manchester United were a prize fighter’s dream. Meetings like this harken to tales of pizzagate, tunnel fights, and battles for EPL supremacy.
While the the challenge for EPL supremacy has laxed up, a meeting of these two staples of English football is always something to feast on. Last season in the EPL, Arsenal won the first meeting and in the second drew against a side looking to stay fit to win the title. However, it was in the two Champion’s League Semi-Final matches where the chasm between the two teams was oh so evident.
In the second leg of the semis it took only 11 minutes for the Mancurians to break open the game that resulted in Patrice Evra labelling it “men against boys.” And oh boy was it ever. From every aspect of that series across two legs the Gunners were thoroughly outclassed.
But that was then and this is now. Last year, Christiano Ronaldo was our chief antagonist, sinking an amazing free-kick that noone thought had any business going in. Ronaldo if you live in a cave is now featuring with Real Madrid. Gone also is Speedy Gonzalez like Tevez. If you remained in that cave over the summer you may not have heard but he is plying his trade with that other Manchester team.
Also gone are Emmanuel Adebayor and Kolo Toure, two, from all indications, malignant tumors in the dressing room who sorely fouled up the attitude of the team. Like the lesions they are, they now find themselves cutoff and also with the other Manchester team.
Manchester United did not start out of the blocks this season and maybe to some people’s surprise have struggled especially at Turff Moor where a cracker of a shot sent them to their first loss of the season at the hands of Premier League Debutantes, Burnley. Without Ronaldo and Tevez, the attack is relying on Rooney and Rooney. I kid – Rooney, Berbatov and newly acquired project Michael Owen. It was only in last week’s win against Wigan that a striker not named Rooney scored a goal.
Additionally, the title holders look a little weak at the back as Rio Ferdinand, he, of the Christiano Ronaldo school of bathing suits and daisy-duke shorts (I shudder just at the thought of it) – is out. He is likely to be replaced by Johnny Evans. Who is also questionable with an ankle injury that could require surgery. If he doesn’t feature, look for either Wes Brown or John O’Shea to be tapped to fill in. While Vidic and Neville are fit to play, they are just back having featured for the first time this season during last weekend’s tie versus Wigan.
When it is all said and done this is an all together different United than we are used to seeing. They’ve struggled a little, but who wouldn’t with the departure of two huge goal producers. Berbatov still has to prove himself and Owen is not the same player he was at Pool. So it falls to Rooney, who quite nobly has taken the mantle thrust upon him, to be the standard bearer for Sir Alex Ferguson’s side.
The Arsenal also are a different team this season than last. This time for all the right reasons. The departure of Adebayor and Toure could prove to be a master stroke by Wenger. The team seems more focused and resolute and the friction that was supposedly surrounding these two players no longer exists.
Arsene has moved away from the 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 of last season and gone with a 4-3-3 that was part of Barcelona’s run to their treble season. By all indications this has led to the resurgence of an Arsenal attack that seemed to struggle a lot last season. In the two EPL matches this season, the new formation has garnered 10 goals. Throw in 5 from the Champion’s League clashes and the squad has scored 15 goals in 4 games.
Arsenal have also improved in the back. There were a lot of nervous people lamenting the lack of height and strength in the back four last season and more so this season when Kolo Toure left for the riches of Man City. However, it seems that the Gunner’s only summer signing (so far) Thomas Vermaelen has proved to be every bit worth the £10 million he was signed for. The man simply has shown his mettle and experience (at 23). He has seldom seemed out of position and in a 15 second span in Wednesday’s CL clash headed away no less than 3 cross-ins. Throw in the tackle at Parkhead that was pure class and it looks like Arsene has done it again.
Also different this season is the constant theme of closing down on the ball. Last season the Gunner’s seemed intent on only one thing – pass, pass, pass and pass some more, then when you puke do it all over again. Now the Gunners are showing the ability to lock in on the ball and defensively close down on the play. In every match there are no less than 2-3 men attacking the ball and closing out the angles before a play can go in. Leading the way, the likes of Song, Arshavin and Robin Van Persie.
This an altogether different team and like Furgeson said today,
“I couldn’t understand why they were written off,” said the United boss.
Well Sir Alex neither can anyone else. And if they did write them off, then they are suddenly rethinking it.
This is an important match to both teams. Man U are eager to show that they’ve righted the ship and that last week’s emphatic win over Wigan was the start towards their 4th straight EPL title. Arsenal are keen to show that wins over Everton, Pompey and Celtic are true indications of the team’s potential. Whatever each team is vying for, it is likely to be a cracking match.
In 40 ties of the Wenger/Furgeson era, Furgeson has a slight edge with 15 wins over Wenger’s 14. 11 were draws. In previous season’s this matchup could very well mean the title. Well, while its August and very hard to say what impact it has, it still does have that potential. Liverpool and the Mancurians already have losses. Chelsea and Arsenal do not. A win by Arsenal and the season is already validated. A loss and Manchester United are back in charge. Either way, there is an interesting story here.
Injuries:
Manchester United: Ferdinand, Obertan, Rafael, and Hargreaves
Arsenal: Fabregas, Rosicky, Walcott, Djorou, Nasri
Possible Lineups:
Man U starting XI: Foster; Neville, Vidic, Evans, Evra; Nani, Scholes, Fletcher, Valencia; Berbatov, Rooney.
Arsenal starting XI: Almunia; Sagna, Vermaelen, Gallas, Clichy; Song; Eboue, Diaby, Denilson; Arshavin, Van Persie.
How is it going down?
This is hard to call coming so early in the season. Arsenal are the real deal and should figure in the title challenge – much to everyone’s chagrin. However, the absenece of Fabregas in the middle cannot be underestimated. He has been absolutely fantastic. But the squad is now built to be interchangeable. And there are plenty of attacking options in the squad.
United have yet to hit their pace but counting them out even with their early struggles is ridiculous. A Ferguson managed side is never out until the last day of the season. This man knows how to prepare a team.
Gunner to Watch?
I have to agree with Goal.com – Thomas Vermaelen. If he can handle Rooney and Berba/Owen then you will know that he is the futre of the Arsenal defense and will go a long way to moving the club towards winning some silverware this campaign.
Score: 2-2 If it were at the Emirates – 2-1 to the Arsenal.
Game time 12:15 EST on FSC
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How do you make this blog look this sick! Email me if you get the chance and share your wisdom. Id be thankful!
From today’s Arsenal email – from Arsene (1st 2/3’s of the letter)
“Wenger: I will take positives from our defeat
Dear Supporter,
I think what is the most difficult thing to take from Saturday’s defeat against Manchester United is that we were the better team and we lost the game. We were in front and had a chance to score the second goal and got punished on two goals. It is beyond belief.
Overall I would like to keep the positives of the game because I believe that we can deal well with the disappointment of losing the game. We have a great future and we can be a real force. But of course, it’s difficult to accept going home from Old Trafford without any points.
Football is unpredictable but I believe in this team. We lack some calmness, maturity and experience at times because we conceded goals at a time when there was no need to panic. We assessed two situations badly.
In the first one, Wayne Rooney was in no position to score, so there was no need to panic. And on the second one as well when Abou Diaby scored an own goal. There was not one player of Man United around our players. So it’s a lack of communication and still a little bit I feel in these situations that we might be lacking a little bit of experience.”
Twice our manager reflects on ‘experience’ as a contributing element missing. An admission that is refreshing to see.
With only three hours remaining b4 the transfer window closes, will our manager find a way to bolster our experience?
“Twice our manager reflects on ‘experience’ as a contributing element missing. An admission that is refreshing to see.”
You say refreshing, I say infuriating. We lack experience??? No shite. That’s the policy, right? The grand experiment? You know, the one we were supposed to judge at the end of last season? (Excuse me, this season.)
Nah, not ‘infuriating’. Kinda funny, actually. :-) (See???)
Heard of “actions speak louder than words”? :)
John Cross of the Mirror is reporting that Manuel Almunia is at the England National Team Training Facility.
Another point I wanna make – I don’t think the referees are pro-Man U. The media maybe. But not the refs. Rather than I think the refs are WEAK.
Man Utd have the biggest club stadium in England. When their fans are in full voice, it can be quite frightening for the refs. Therefore a 50/50 decisions will always be in Man U’s favour. Everybody knows you (any team) always give away penalty at Old Trafford. Another thing not to be overlooked is – Man U rarely conceded penalties at Old Trafford. It takes a BRAVE ref to award an away team a penalty there.
That also leads to another point I am trying to make – that the Arsenal home fans’ infamous silence and lack of support and all those moan and groan towards our own team have not being HELPFUL to Arsenal at all.
Old Trafford may not be that noisy these days, but in big games they usually are. That makes their fans like their “12th man”. It’s the same with Liverpool.
The Emirates, on the other hand, is still as quiet as library. What a waste for a 60,000 seater stadium.
Take the season home opener, the club had to go down to the route of delivering FREE scarfs to the fans in order to CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE. How pathetic can that be.
Despite of all these, after we went 2-0 up (against Pompey) I almost fallen asleep watching the match. As you hardly could hear any noise at all from the telly. Now you can forgive our players may start to relaxing themselves as well on the pitch. Everybody did didn’t they? Even the home fans started relaxing and not bothering to sing. What did we expect from the players?
When home fans are in full voice, it can really lift the players up. And scare the s8it out of the refs to make a call against the home team.
There is no point going down the anti-football is worse than diving road. It is a no win situation. We don’t live in an ideal world where everything goes right. People continue to view diving as a player’s fault, while consistent fouling is the referee’s mistake, not the player’s. That won’t change.
The only way Arsenal can respond is by winning. Today will determine if we have a team equipped to do that.
Well said nipuna. The ONLY way Arsenal can respond to all those bulls8it is to win our NEXT game, and the game after and after.
It’s the only way to shut people up.
yeah that’s what I had said after Eduardo’s leg was broken. The only way to win the fight against ugly football is to win up to it. But 2008 proved the team had no stomach for that as they threw everything away. Has the team’s mentality changed now? Atleast there’s Arshavin and Vermaelen, but is that enough? we will see..
Yeah. Heard the anti-football too many times to my liking. Like you said, winning would go long way. However, as Sachin pointed below, that’s really a stretch target. Even if we’re winning, the rival will chant “cheating” endlessly.
I think the easier and achievable target is to toughen up. Play nice if the opponent play nice. Kick them back if they start play rough. Bendtner shouldn’t have pulled his leg when Rooney did a diving header, would have been a good start ;)
Oops. Should’ve said “as Sachin pointed above ….”
It is time to move on with our discussion. We are screwed and the less said the faster it will be lost over some new controversy (hopefully from another club).
Arsene needs to drop the issue from all of his media comments. Secondly, and “most important” ARSENE NEEDS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE MEDIA DIALOGUE!
HOW you ask?
Arsene must sign someone significant to divert the media spin. We should wake up to read that Arsene has signed: Vieira, Lehman, Henry, and Bergkamp
Here’s another chapter to highlight the English/British footballing worldview…..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1210354/The-Fletcher-factor-Was-midfielder-used-kick-Arsenal-team-stride.html?ITO=1490
Notice how the Brit Fletcher is referred to as ‘tangling’ with Arshavin….another perspective is that he ‘negligently flew through him risking serious injury’. Then notice how the Spaniard Fabregas in the same article is referred to as ‘tumbling easily’. Indeed the author even suggests that this historic action of Fabregas was cause for Fletcher to do what he did. Hmmm…yeah ok then.
if Taylor was the real victim after he broke Eduardo’s leg, then Fletcher seems like an angel who tackles couldn’t hurt a fly, let alone a strong man like Arshavin…
But thankfully Arshavin showed how to shut up Man Utd after getting robbed.
I do wonder had that been Theo Walcott instead of Eduardo involved in that “diving” incident, would the English media have made a meal out of it?
I can understand where the English media coming from – England, as a nation, historically speaking, have held sportsmanship, spirit of fair play to a high regard.
Yet the nation pride has blinded them to set a double standard when judging the SAME soft of behavior acted by the English players and the Johnny foreigners is gradually turning them into a laughing stock.
In a football pitch, you cannot HIDE anything. Whatever anyone does on the pitch is there for all to see.
And the game is becoming a globe game today. Millions of watchers from outside the UK wouldn’t have given a damn whether a player is English or Brazilian.
They can only be hiding their heads under the sand for so long.
Andez/Kiwi/Sachin, all valid points.
But let us face it. Nothing is going to change. We are talking about a change in the country’s mentality/thinking. This isn’t happening, certainly not overnight.
Even when we had a core of British players (Adams, Keown, Parlour), we were still the Johnny Foreigner team. Now we are worse. Just because we have Walcott, Wilshere and Ramsey isn’t going to change anything.
The only way we can shut people up is by winning. Sad but true. :(
I agree nipuna. I think the only chance things will change is to wait till Gerard, Terry, Lampard the likes retire, then Liverpool, Chelsea the likes aren’t going to have many English players left. While we will have Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, Giibbs the likes playing regular football in our first team (hopefully).
Come to think of it, there aren’t really many bright young generation of English footballers today who are good enough to play for the big 4 sides. So even they had cash, they may not be able to buy any.
Say, let’s name 5 of the TOP English players who are under 21, that alone is not an easy task.
A couple of other observations.
Firstly Arsene’s treatment in being sent off. The decision was ludicrous at all levels (referees = idiots). That aside, what he was subjected to was disgusting and potentially dangerous. And to subject a man of his standing in the game to such a humiliating situation was really low. Pictures showing Arsenal being forced to stand(!) by himself in front of 74,000 srceaming jeering Manc’s who regularly chant horrible things about him on global TV deserves much more than a written apology.
On to Ade. Opinion varies widely on this old-boy, yet when it comes to strikers, ye judge them by their goals. And he’s taking a huge load of his managers shoulders. Make no mistake, Hughes needed a good start after the big spend-up at the club. Ade is giving him that. To be sure, aspects of his personality may prove problematic further down the track…..but that is a story yet to unfold if indeed it does.
I had read arseblog on what Wenger was called by the Man Utd fans. Oh gawd. And to have him stand there was worse than awful. The apology from the ref’s chief means nothing.
I am tired of having to see crap like this over and over, especially at old trafford. When will that day come when Arsenal will demolish Man Utd 6-0? When? It didn’t arrive with those great arsenal teams of the past.
And all the pro Man Utd or English player media. Gets tiring and frustrating. Sometimes I think it would be better if all the foreign players left the EPL. Then the league would be reduced to crap and back to the old days of kicking and fouling. I can ignore the league completely. And if that magically happened, I would like Arsenal to move their entire team to another league. Win win situation :) The EPL would mean nothing whereas the rest of the leagues would compete. Platini would also be happy I think.
I guess Reyes and Hleb made a correct decision then ;)
But they jumped too soon :) No one else followed them.
The absurdity surrounding Eduardo continues. The fact that the official charge includes words such as ‘cheating’ and ‘intention to deceive’ and ‘no mercy’ makes it what it is – an inconsistent nonsense. Eduardo, the man whose very leg was at genuine risk due to the rotten core of the English obsession with ‘commitment’ and thinly veiled aggression in football is now being hung out as a scape goat for the problem of over-acting to get dubious fouls.
I’m with Arsene 100% on this one. I said myself directly after the game and the growing furore, I couldn’t see the rational thought whereby both Celtic and ManU are allowed to continually push gamemanship to the limit with physical fouls that disrupt the game and spectacle to negate Arsenals threat, yet Eduardo does what most other professional footballers do and wins a penalty and the media and much(?) of the British footballing community see a deep evil.
If you don’t believe me read the columns by James Lawton. This man periodically lambasts Wenger on some moral issue. He was at it again. Post Celtic, on his high horse, telling the world how horrid the cheat Eduardo was for acting in such a way and how equally horrid Arsene was for not hanging him. A few days later, post ManU, he merely refers to Rooney’s acting as the actions of a ‘pro’.
And yet Lawton is blinded by his own prejudice. He can’t see the level of his own babling nonsense. Ferguson, Rooney and ManU are all British icons, Arsenal has become a sophisticated League of Nations ensemble led by a Frenchman committed to a form of football that relegates ‘the British commitment’ to that of a supporting role to the top priority of footballing artistry. This irks deeply. And the fact that few British players are deemed suitable for this venture cuts too.
So we just have to suck it up, Arsene won’t win this battle, Eduardo will get a ban, and the event will be re-run time and again ala Pires. Whilst the numerous British cheats and spoilers will be described as commited pros. Hopefully this will solidify the teams will to win. This has happened before for Arsenal.
One more day to go before the transfer window closes.
Will he or won’t he? If he does, will it be a Denilson or an Arshavin?
@nipuna, After watching Diaby yesterday, his own goal not withstanding I am sure Paddy will not come back. The guy when on song is absolute dynamite; he can destroy everyone on the park. Trouble is .. how long can he stay that way. Chamakh will come on deadline day and that will be it.. if at all.
I think Diaby is nowhere near Vieira. And don’t let age fool you. Diaby is 23. Vieira was 22 when we won the double in 1998.
Vieira was far more talented and skillful. He had qualities like drive and bottle which are yet to be seen in Diaby.
Diaby shines in one game and disappears in another. The fact that only a change in formation is bringing the best out of him says a lot.
I wouldn’t be pinning my hopes on him becoming our next Vieira.
Stag might have collapsed if he was reading this. :)
I agree. Vieira was immense from day 1. Perhaps the most dynamic imposing young midfield player I have seen.
I’m happy though that Diaby is showing more of his ability.
OK, a couple of days past the “big” match and some of my feelings have settled a bit….Now we’re on to the excitement/disappointment of the end of the transfer window and then the injury, er, international break… a few thoughts:
We’ve started the season nicely, in our play and in our staking out a position of us against the world. The diving controversy and the absurd events at OT show just what we’re up against as the season rolls on. This being a World Cup season I fully expect us to take a reaming anytime we play against any of the English “star” players (Rooney, Owen, Ferdinand, England’s #1, Foster, at ManU, Lampard, Terry, both Coles at Chelsea, Gerrard and Johnson at Liverpool, Crouch, Defoe, Lennon at Sp**s, Barry, SWP at Citeh?). Hopefully our boy Theo gets healthy and gets the same “protection” when he plays. Like the ManU match, it’s unlikely to be pretty when we play the “big boys.” Nonetheless, I see some elements in our play (maturity, greater team defense, etc.) and the depth of our squad (face it, it’s a big year for our players, even our squad players, to play well, score goals, etc. so they can get called up for the World Cup) which make me think we can do well against the other (minnow) teams and still compete well in the league and the domestic cups. A strong run in the CL would be the best tonic of all and is the best showcase for our top players. Given the absurd, over the top, diving controversy, I actually think CL refs will be coming to our defense in a way that we will never see domestically.
Right now however, the big question is do we have enough to really compete at the highest level? I’d say we’re tantalizingly close. If I were AW I’d think about a real move (i.e., big money) for a top goalkeeper, if there’s one out there (anybody?) With Fabianski so young and injured and Almunia having his usual troubles (what’s up with his hair?), somebody a full notch above would be very nice. I also think it’d be nice to have more options up front. An established center forward (big money) would’ve been sweet. (Glad to see Ade gone, but the present evidence suggests he can play pretty well when he’s motivated.) A last minute deal for Chamakh would be pleasing as he would be another target on set pieces if we don’t feel Bendtner can do the job or lacks the pace we need. We can keep giving RVP an hour a game to prove he can lead the line, but then maybe some others ought to get a chance. At this point I don’t see us trying to buy a back-up or younger player in defense or at DM as, if everybody comes back from injury, we’re already fairly deep at those positions (Nasri’s got to play somewhere and it appears we’re keeping Senderos?). The injury thing is huge of course and I’m just “boiling” to see Rosicky play. If he can get back out there and Cesc and Andrey stay fit, I really think we’ve got a chance of moving to another level…but, in my hippie world, optimism, clearly, is my opiate of choice….
I would not be surprised if Wenger moved in for Chamakh. I have no idea how good Chamakh is but RvP does look ill suited for the lone striker role in the current formation. He needs to face the goal not play with his back to it.
Ade was best suited for this role but he left. I think Eduardo can play it too. But with his injuries and fitness problem, I doubt Arsene will throw him into a position where he will be under the constant close “attention” of opposition defenders.
I totally agree with LDE’s call for technnical help for the referee.
Why the RESPECT campaign failed so miserably last season? To me it’s simple – cos it’s hard for anyone to RESPECT the referees when they kept making mistakes. You can’t ASK FOR respect, you EARN it.
Yet in fairness, it’s not all the referees’ fault. Now look at the Edurado incident, the TV had shown the replay from left and right, front and back, a lot of different angles, with slow motion. Meaning that there are millions of people out there could see the incident in SLOW MOTION again and again from different angles to come up with their own conclusion. And to convince themselves that they know better than the ref. And when a ref really made a mistake, everyone pointed finger on him.
The ONLY person who doesn’t give to see the replay, the slow motion is the referee himself.
As a result, how the authority could expect any RESPECT for the refs?
Let’s face it, when the Eduardo and Rooney dive happened, could anyone of us really tell it’s a dive or penalty BEFORE the replay being shown?
When I watched the Wimbledon (Tennis) early this year, just couldn’t help but admire their Video replay technology (when a player challenging a call). Sharp and simple, took less than 10 seconds with every challenge.
The authority been arguing it would slow the game down or break up the momentum of a match should the in game video replay applied. But come on, look at how the way a player fake injury, and walking slowly towards the touchline, it probably eaten up 30 seconds or even more whenever a player doing that.
I figure to the most it’d only take 30 seconds or so for the ref to look at the in-game video replay to come up with a call.
LOL! What goes around comes around, guess what? Here’s one headline on Times Online “Tony Mowbray upset at McGeady sent off for diving”.
And here’s the link, you gotta read it!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article6815791.ece
“Mowbray had studiously avoided entering into the debate about Eduardo. In fact, the incident might have passed with only minimal controversy had Gordon Smith, the chief executive of the SFA, not demanded action from Uefa. The governing body’s decision to do just that infuriated the Arsenal manager, Arsène Wenger, who warned that a can of worms had been opened.
Related Links
* McGeady falls from grace but Celtic hang on
He could not have anticipated that the first to wriggle out would be on Celtic’s doorstep”
like i said the other day, if you wanna cast stone on others, u better make sure you yourselves had no sin.
Serve them right.
Arsenal fans have high expectations for this season. None of us expected the team to go undefeated. Is there team we prefer to suffer defeat to?
What we did accomplish against ManU is control of the defensive third and a majority of the midfield play, two major turnarounds from last year. We did create some good chances, and that is a reflection of unselfish play and good tactics.
Against ManU, our starting midfield: Song, Denilson, & Diaby (avg. 21 years) Our midfield bench for this match: Ramsey, Wilshere, and Merida. Wow!
As for the officiating aspect of the match, we should not expect to get any breaks at any time – through next May OR ever. Most of the officials have grown up during a period where Pool and ManU dominated the sport’s popularity and they have probably been supporters at some point earlier as can be said for the established media.
Arsenal need to channel the dejection from this match into a ‘motivating force’. Arsenal must play to a higher concentration, work rate, and skill level – never allowing any match to be close at the end. They must play with new purpose to eliminate subjective calls that can take points from us.
There is nothing we can do about prejudices towards foreign players or the fact we are Arsenal. What we can do is raise our play to such a high standard, where commentary is centered for our skill and tactical strengths.
Despite all of these positives for the start of this season,
I’m afraid that if Arsene does not sign at least 1 quality player ( for midfield or CB depth ) the risk for losing OUR key players next summer will be “escalated”. We can play very well, finish runners up in the league and in other competitions – but the market will throw big money in the direction of Cesc, RvP, Arshavin, Song, Nasri, Vermaelen to the greener grass and silverware is a reflection of their performance. Winning is the best insulator for this problem, but not full proof.
We have ‘an exciting roster’. We need some luck to keep most of our players healthy.
Go Gunners.
What happens when skillful Croatian players go against Birmingham?
They break a leg. Although Modric won’t be out as long as Edu.
@sachin, the link above is not showing up:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=672057&sec=england&cc=5901
This is hilarious!!
http://goonertalk.com/2009/08/30/celtic-player-sent-off-for-diving/
@nipuna, It gets even more funny:
“Football’s a hard, physical game and when you see a challenge coming for you, you’re ready for it,” he said. “McGeady probably ran 40 yards, he skips past one challenge and when he sees another coming, he goes down.”
The Celtic captain, Gary Caldwell, added: “Sometimes you get them. I don’t think Aiden is a cheat, I don’t think he dives.”
Uh-huh. And as expected the British media is not making too much of this. But then again, who cares for the SPL anyway ;)
Some blog rightly said that when Arsene was asked about Eduardo’s dive, he should have just replied – “Oh, he is not that sort of chap”.
Matter closed. :)
Some of the announcers’ commentary during the game:
When Arshavin was clearly tackled in the box, they said “In all honesty it doesn’t look like one (penalty)”.
Also, Rooney was applauded for being English.
And they made a point to note that Arshavin was “a footballer with Fashion Diploma back in Russia”
@Arthur:
I’m just saying.. Dudu gets caught too if he doesn’t go down early. So by that logic its a penalty to him too.
Actually I don’t think either are if its really all about “fairness” and the “respect campaign”. Why should strikers go down at all when they have no chance to score? I’d like to see more common sense applied there – get technology in , dump the 4th referee , the onfield referee or the linesman or a ballboy can hold a damn board up. Have 2 referees goal line one on either side who run along the line like a linesman and call goal line crossing, dives, simulation, corner impedes , elbows like Alan Shearer and the action in the box. That might help.
Give the damn penalty when the actual contact happens not assuming it will happen.. that’ll cut the dives by half..IMO anyway until players find workarounds for that as well.
Deduct a point if outright cheating is found. F1 races for example annul a result if problems are found after the race even if its the race leader. Maybe football does the same? Sachin got it dead on before the game.. Rooney will dive no one will see it. Perfect.
@”get technology in , dump the 4th referee , the onfield referee or the linesman or a ballboy can hold a damn board up.”
Bravo. How many grounds have those digital billboard (hoarding) right on the pitch? Technology is good for advertising, but not for improving the product on the field? The idea that the beautiful game can’t be sullied by anything as coarse as the advances of the 21st century is making the powers-that-be look the fool yet again.
“How many grounds have those digital billboard (hoarding) right on the pitch? Technology is good for advertising, but not for improving the product on the fiel”
EXACTLY
Flashback:
If we look back at the 07/08 season, Song was just another name on the roster. In a few cameo appearances, I remember reading many criticism’s for his unorthodox gait and awkwardness in playing STYLE.
Through the fall of 08, many kept evaluating his appearances with negative adjectives and doubting inferences. With Cesc’s injury, he was thrown into the mire of midfield and DEVELOPED before our eyes. Arsene saw talent in this young man and he delivered. Song turns 22 soon.
Reality:
Diaby is only a year older than Song. Last year he received significant playing time on the wings; most would agree he looked out of sync. This season he has moved into the middle and we can see signs of why Arsene signed this player. He displays moments of brilliance when in the open field………..
just as Song.
From that point of view, I have to agree. Wenger did move from the flank to the middle. I guess this goes back to time. He needs time. But then again, it’s hard to swallow when you need someone to perform in and out now in order for us to win the EPL.
When Rooney went head first for the low ball, why didn’t Bendtner just smash his head with a strong kick? I am sure Rooney would have done that if the boot was on the other foot.
We are just too nice.
If that had happened, then Arsenal would have been banned from the league.
On the other hand, maybe one day Terry or Lampard will “tangle” with Rooney and that will be fun to watch & follow. I wonder how the British media will line that up.
Diaby is very inconsistent. One day he shows up very2 good and another day he looks like a bust. He should have scored that goal after he scored a wonderful header. He was clear, dribbled passed 3 Man U players and missed wide with the shot.
I am kind of frustrated with the guy. He can play for sure, but that inconsistency makes me wonder if he is just a good backup. No point of starting him. But maybe depth is our issue. Something we all have been talking about here.
What are the odds of Van De Vaart coming here anyone? Would it be any good? I know we all have been talking about a DM and so on.
What I am so p*ss by our team is they just kept on making STUPID MISTAKES. Doesn’t matter how well we play, how hard we work, those stupid mistakes simply been killing us for so many seasons now. And it’s not about 3 points loss, it’s a potentially morale killer.
I still haven’t got to watch the replay of that penalty call. But from what I recall, had Gallas known that Almunia was so slow coming out, he could have just swept the ball into roll Z. I advice Gallas from now on should just forget about we have a goalkeeper, to deal with every ball by himself.
I honestly dont’ know how Diaby could have headed the ball into our own net? He wasn’t even under any pressure. But fair play to the lad, since that own goal, he had a 20 minutes spell which was probably his BEST performance in an Arsenal shirt. He almost scored an instant reply with a brilliant individual effort. And he used his power and strength to good effect charging down the United goal. He had shown what he’s capable of. Now we just need more consistence from him. To do it week in week out, and to do with in 90 minutes instead of 20.
I have no doubt of our team’s overall talent. I don’t know how anyone can blame our midfield, not as if they were at their back foot all game long.
And I sure hell don’t think we are in an urgent need of yet another midfielder. As i said, if we could only add on more player, get us a keeper. One thing I do not agree with AW is his loyalty to Almunia. When Brad Fredial was available last summer, he should have grabbed him despite of his age. NOw he’s by no mean a world class name, but he’s rock solid. And extremely brave and aggressive. He CONTROLLED the Villa box. We need a keeper like that – if anyting, to inject confidence into his back 4.
One thing I hate to agree with Mazza, but it’s looking more and more like the TRUTH – that our team are looking like the BOTTLERS. When you keep blowing away leads in the BIG GAMES, keep making STUPID MISTAKES that cost us a game, there’s no other term to describe it but – BOTTLERS.
I hate defeats like that.
I’d rather we got OUTPLAYED then we don’t need to dwell on it. I didn’t feel that bad after we were OUTPLAYED in the CL semi last season by Man U. The better team won. Fair play to them.
When the better team lost, and when you don’t even know how the f*ck they lost the match, that’s so difficult to take and to get over it.
Amen Andez. Absolutely gutted. The penalty thing is normal really. There is absolutely no difference in either incident. Both have then deceived the referee. What is the point though?
To anyone who talks about how our midfield was dominated and how we were shit at Old Trafford today is just out of his mind. This was one of the absolute best “allround” .. note allround performances I saw from an “Arsenal team”..note team. Yet again we yes.. bottled it today. The technique on the back header from Diaby is all wrong really. Inswinging free kick from the wing..just send it back from where it came. How How can you head it into your own net under no pressure at all? Bizarre really. Sigh..
And screw all the people who will discipline AW and all the media hacks who will say nothing about Rooney’s “dive”. I believe 1 thing , if we can channel this frustration of having been the better team and lost into great performances we’ll do very well this season.
And Mazza really…you’re just stuck with Hleb and Rosicky so far now that you can’t see anything good beyond them at all. Hell everyone loved those days.. but to say that everything is spin is just taking it too far. It makes no sense. Anyway I wont contest it further .. that’s just my opinion.
This is up there with the CL Liverpool Babel “dive” loss and the 4-4 at Tottenham and the anger at Rooney’s dive for the 49 unbeaten..I think.
Exactly LDE. Personally I refuse to believe just because of one defeat all a sudden there are 101 weaknesses of the team being exposed.
Even if we go and buy a new Vieira, would he be able to stop an “own goal”? To prevent a “penalty call”? To avoid a van Persie shot that hit the bar?
Overall speaking, I am more than happy with our performance in the first 5 games of the new campaign.
Prior to the season started, I expected a draw against Everton and a draw against Man U. An away draw against Celtic. And two wins over Portsmouth and Celtic at home.
So result wise, it has been better than I expected.
I firmly believe there are only two key factors for any team who want to win the league –
(1) To make a run (unbeaten or winning)
(2) To response right after a defeat.
The ability to bounce back striaght away is the MAJOR difference between a title contender and pretender.
Last season we failed. So we were never a contender.
This season, the NEXT game will tell.
Yeah if we beat ManCity 1-0 all will be forgotten..though I actually find it hard what is to be forgotten by people. We played excellently and were unlucky. If we keep this level up all season we’ll be up there.. 100%.
I agree with you both. I think our preformance indicates we can mix it with the best. Although we beat Man U and Chelsea last year I was not convinced we were as competent as they were, this season I think we are. I expect us to challenge for the title this year. I cannot envision us finishing lower than 3 bar injury issues, but I honestly think if we can keep the new found attitude going we can win the title.
However I am feeling quite uneasy with the Tiny Totts sitting above us at the moment.
Sorry, I cannot take solice from knowing we played better but lost this match.
Champions find a way to win, even if it’s ugly.
We have NO players that can gut it out. No leaders on the field that inspire others to play above their belief.
I can accept losing to a better team OR to a lesser team that has a better day; but losing this way is disheartening!
Lets hope this was the low point of the season and in 2 weeks we have Cesc, Rosicky, and Theo back in the line up and trash City.
i think it’s silly to complain about the substitutions. What difference did it make anyway?
Could it have prevented the penalty decision by the ref? Could it have prevented Diaby’s own goal?
Playing Ramsey we failed to equalizer that seemed like a bad subs move, yet can anyone be sure it would be much a difference had we brought on Wilshere instead of Ramsey? If one wants to nitpicking, had AW brought on Wilshere and we failed to equalizer, then he would be asking why on earth AW brought on Wilshere yet not Ramsey?
Are you that blinkered!
Wilshere is MORE attacking and a like-for-like sub for Arshavin than Wilshere who is a sub for Denilson.
When you are searching for a goal, you bring on more attackers or attacking midfielders.
If he was going to bring on Ramsey why take off Denilson then???
LOL! Sometimes I find the points you chose to argue are quite funny!
stop making a fuss out of nothing.
The defeat was a combination of bad luck, stupid mistakes and bad referee.
In Wilshere and Rasmey, we are talking about two rookies who dont’ really have too much a difference. Not as if we are talking about bringing on Ramsey instead of Pires.
As far as I m concerned, the only type of player who would make an IMPACT coming off the bench is always those DIRECT, PHYSCIALLY blessed player (quick or tall or strong).
As those guys takes less time to adjust to the rhythm of the game. They could just go out there to outrun or outmuscled the oppositions.
Players like Wilshere and Rasmey needs time to get into the FLOW in a match.
Therefore, none of them rarely made an impact off the bench. Those matches they played well at the past, more often than not they STARTED the games.
so whether it’s Ramsey or Wilshere coming on as subs is rather irrelevant to me. Not as if we had lost the match because of it.
I mentioned in the last thread that I had expected Rooney would dive today and earn a penalty and nothing would be said. Well, in this picture it appears that he is on his way down before Almunia touched him.
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3778/rooneydive.jpg
Ofcourse, the brits would say that Rooney was going down to the ground to poke the ball with his big head or some nonsense like that. Because he is a genius.
Almunia was in a position where he couldn’t have pulled out and a penalty would have been given even if he had not touched Rooney. On Wed night, Boruc was going to pull Edu down but then he started to pull away yet still clipped Edu. Aren’t the two incidents the same? Not really, because Eduardo is not British and not as big cheater as Rooney. This is the second time Rooney has dived to get a penalty against Arsenal.
The Man utd fans booed Eduardo. Funny how they have forgotten Ronaldo and Van Diver. But, most of those Man Utd fans don’t care how their team wins.
Man Utd can be completely outplayed and if they win a game, the commentator’s will say something like that is the “hallmark of champions” or how “great teams win even when they are playing bad”, blah blah.
On Final Score Rooney was called intelligent by Shebby Singh who really isn’t biased.. he’d have probably stood up for Dudu too but yeah the English media would only call him intelligent.
Sach you are right Rooney was going down before the touch, he was obviously looking for the pen’ . But the referee had to give it, the contact was too heavy, if Rooney wasn’t going down anyway, he would still have been caught be Al.
With Eddie there was barely any contact he had almost hit the floor when the goalie brushed him.
To mack it worse Eddie is caught smiling after conning his way to getting the penalty. At least when our Emmanuel dives he will accompany it with a grimace and maybe a roll or two ;-)
@arthur3sheds
Yeah, that is what frustrates me as well that Almunia gave no choice but it to be a penalty.
Ofcourse, Rooney celebrated much more than Eduardo.
Well as gutted as I am…at least I have a forum to talk about it. I feel renewed.
We were better today but 2 mistakes can wipe out 80+ of decent to good play. Almunia: might have picked up some of the crazy German’s wackiness/hesitation before stepping into the starting XI. Diaby: physically talented, but mentally weak. Whereas before it was always out defense that faltered, I believe that today’s midfield lineup was weak…occasional poor passing, the death knoll via Diaby’s lack of control – the verdict is that we missed the control of Cesc, the speed of Walcott and the cleverness of Nasri.
I am a sore loser, and it would be that wanker Rooney that gained an iffy penalty, but we have to be realistic: if we had tied, it would have been like a win.
Now, will Arsene wake up and grab a player this weekend (not likely), and will he work with them on bouncing back – channeling their frustration in to ruthlessness towards any and all opponents – and being the spoilers they are born to be this campaign?
good to be here,
Bo
Nice to have you here Bo
Don’t get all the moaning and groaning here. We dominated them throughout most of the game, especially in midfield at OT. Was it a masterclass performance by our midfield? No, but were they effective in neutralizing their players? Yes and we were missing our most influental player. Could the passing have been better, yup, but it wasn’t great for either team. I even commented to my viewing companion that the ball didn’t seem to be moving very well on the ground and speculated the grass was a few tenths longer than usual, quite a few passes seemed to come up a little short.
I’m trying to remember any real clear cut chances for ManU, 2-3 sounds about right and mostly half chances at that, and one was in the dying moments of the game. We easily created more than that, and were unlucky to not go up 2-0 near the beginning of the 2nd half. Football can be cruel at times and we were unlucky to not get somthing out of this game. Penalty was 50/50, just as much of a dive as Dudu in midweek, just some convenient contact from Almunia. Anytime a player puts two feet together and arms in the air they are trying to “decieve”. Eboue was a true embaressment on that count hope the boss gives him a talking to, don’t like cheats on our team either.
Overall, I think we bossed the game and never really looked too troubled. A few poor clearences created some defensive scrambles, we created some good chances, and really should have scored one more. All in all if we can shut down our opponents like that and continue to create those kinds of chances in every game we’ll go far. Can’t wait to hear Wenger’s comments and press conference, should be some good fodder.
Maybe the loss will force Arsene to address our lack of depth?
That’s the problem. Arsene is never pro-active, he never addresses a problem before it does irreversible damage.
He waits and waits for things to go wrong, for a very long time, then belatedly does something about it.
Why exactly was Arshavin replaced with Ramsey instead of Wilshere since we were chasing a goal???
Answer: Because Wenger deals solely on SENIORITY. Forget circumstance.
It’s so mind-numbingly predictable isn’t it?
I don’t we he even takes seven subs with him in a game. May as well just take three or four. Everyone knows exactly who is going to come on, and in what order.
I initially misread it thinking you were asking why AA was subbed. But no.. Ramsey is an attacking threat scored a goal against Pompey so it isn’t totally as ridiculous as you make it out to be. Either way I wonder how much difference it would have made. Its easy to say .. you should have done that or this sitting in front of TV. Plus he did play Wilshere in the CL coz you get kicked less there than away at OT. Either way inconsequential though.
I understand your point totally Fred. Wilshere is the more attacking option especially from the wing. Ramsey is more of an AM or attacking CM not a winger. However it may not be down to seniority alone, it maybe because Ramsey is percieved to be able to handle a big match like this mentally, whereas Wilshere is not.
The match in a nutshell is exactly why we can NOT break into the top 2 let alone win the title.
We are very far from it.
We are psychologically weak. Our midfield is the most naive ever. And our keeper is a plank.
First mistake was starting Eboue. Eboue ALWAYS plays well in the first 2, 3 games of the season, then becomes utterly useless for the rest. That prevents him from being sold.
I really, really, really wish we could sell him so that at least he would stop getting in the way of Wilshere or Vela.
But no, instead of starting Eduardo or Bendtner we go for the useless one. Neither usefull in defense or attack.
Denilson must have lost the ball at least 15 times in the second half. He always freezes when it matters and he does not even have the physique to hold the ball let alone do anything with it.
Diaby should be sold. Not because of his comical own goal. He just is not reliable and will never be. We ALL know that. No point wasting time.
The problem was our midfield and Wengers bizzare decision to start Eboue.
Wenger buys Arshavin and solves a problem. He buys Vermalean and solves a problem…..why the fuck cant he just buy a proper CENTRAL MIDFIELDER so we dont have to be re-watching the same tape every season.
Eduardo wouldn’t have given the penalty away and would have stopped the Diaby own goal? Coz apart from that I’m trying to think of other clear cut chances which resulted because of Eboue/Denilson/ on the pitch.
Good point LDE
Hmmmm….with Eduardo on the pitch rather than the other plank, we would have increased the probability of scoring the CRUCIAL SECOND goal, before they sucker punched us.
I wont argue with you about whether Eboue is whack or not. Afterall, you still believe Almunia to be a “solid” keeper.
@Fred, The actual facts actually point in that direction. He saved our butt 20000 times last season. Else we’d have been struggling for fourth.No? He made a bad decision yesterday.. well ok , my timing was wrong..I’ll give you that much. Beyond that I think he’s ok, there are worse out there. He’s an excellent shot stopper but average on crosses. It’ll actually be nice if you come out after a good game and say he did well.. that’ll make your points perfectly logical. But you never do that.. that’s why I defend them when you attack them.
They didnt punch us or nothing. They did zilch all game. 2 gifts – that is all and Evra’s and Nani’s shot right at the end. And its not as if we stopped attacking. So really its no big deal, plus Eboue played well yesterday bar the dive. However that’ll get nowhere so I propose we drop it.
Fred you wonderful ray of light and joy ;-)
Eboue was good in the 2nd half excluding the mistimed dive :-D .
Wilshere might need a little more time Vela is injured and we have a weakish squad so why would selling King Eboue make any sense.
Eboue was whack throughout. He did absolutely nothing. Offensively or defensively. And he takes away CRUCIAL game time from folks who would really benefit from it.
If Ramsey or Wilshere had all the Eboue game time of last season by now, they would be very able to come in. But because the RETARD is still here, they do not, yet the clown does not really give us anything.
He is a decent backup RB, that is it. But Wenger will always be tempted to play him in midfield …. so its best he just left. I am certain we can find a decent backup RB for half the price we sell Eboue for.
We played better than them. I think we had more chances than them. Yet we lost. Same old brand new Arsenal?
Two idiotic mistakes from Almunia and Diaby.
LDE, what was that you were asking about Almunia? :(
Hindsight is a wonderful thing Nipuna. He hadn’t up until today. I’d say more but I know that is just hurt feeling coming out :(
I think the word gutted comes to mind. Completely outclassed ManU the entire game. Vermaelen and Gallas more than handled the attack.
Goddamn Diaby. Bad passing and bad heading. That was a freakin routine clear. No pressure from anyone. Completely misstimed.
I didn’t see as much pressing as in the other games. It was still there however, we did respect the attack. Foster came through with a brilliant save – had RvP scored and us up 2-0 – Game Ova.
I am not sure and maybe someone can enlighten me – the penalty shot – since there was no clear advantage on the ball should there have been one?
Ref gave penalty because in his view, Rooney was fouled. Rooney knew what he was doing to con the ref.
It’s an easy call for Dean as Rooney got the ball first and you’re at OT and you’re an idiot. How he gave absolutely nothing for Fletcher’s studs up on Arshavin, after the ball is gone (except to hit Fletcher in the arm). Oh, of course, it’s Dean, it’s OT and AA’s Russian not English.
Seriously, Almunia’s either got to get to that ball or pull out of the challenge. It bespeaks a certain lack of critical decision-making and athleticism.
It isn’t a penalty because Rooney’s already going down. Don’t listen to the commentators DAG , they con you all the time. If that’s a penalty then Eduardo’s certainly is.
No. I do not believe the pressing game is a HYPE. Look at the EFFORT our players put it, it certainly is something I havent seen for many many seasons.
There is a difference between playing like crap and lost, like last season CL semi (both legs), than playing well and lost because of bad luck.
To me, I can only sum the game up with 2 words – sh*t happens.
United on the other hand have a lot to worry about as far as i m concerned. They have zero creativity down the middle. Their central midfield pair were a joke.
As for us, it’s a matter of whether we are strong enough mentally to pick ourselves up right way. If they manage to do that, we will have a season that suprise a lot of doubters.
Really?
I though Hleb and Rosicky were two of the most hardworking midfielders I’ve seen. Flaminin as well.
I think you could make the argument that our midfield is working hard, compared to how lazy and lax they used to be.
Well, if you are not happy about our EFFORT despite it’s there for everyone to see. I got nothing more to add.
Maz I cannot see how you cannot see the differnce in the attitude of the squad so far. It is the pressing that has made us successful this far.
Why we missed the Flamster so much was because he used to get in peoples face not giving them time to play their game and forcing errors. This is a tactic that is employed very successfully in the EPL especially by the smaller clubs against the likes of us.
I disagree totally. I think we had played one of the best games at Old Trafford in recent years. Defensively, our pressing game got them giving away cheap possessions in a manner i rarely seen from a United side.
Attacking wise, we created chances. And could have scored twice but for a Ben Forster save and the offside call (which was a correct one) towards the end.
To me, this defeat was “one of those games” that it just feel like we were destined to get beaten.
when the game opened up towards the end it’s irrelevant and inevitably, as we had to push everybody up to go for the equalizer.
The game was decided after that stupid PK we conceded and that own goal. That’s two crucial mistakes. It did not reflect of our performance in the whole match.
Andez;
I think far too much is being made of this new ‘lean, mean, Arsenal machine’ talk. Alot of commentators and pundits have got it into their head and now the fans are jumping on things like pressing the ball, like we’ve never pressed the ball before.
Watch Arsenal at OT in 2007/08, watch us in 06. United gave the ball away in those games all the time for the first hour, due to us pressing the ball.
Vermaelen has been brilliant, that’s it. Take him away and nothing has changed at all. The rest is all spin.
Kinda gotta agree with the head doommonger here. Both teams were pretty poor but we trumped them with the mental mistakes (including Gallas being offside at the death). Very little good possession or individual play on display. Both teams are just pinging the ball around and trying for some one on one brilliance–kinda reminds me of what I’ve seen from Spurs so far this year, but they are (for the moment) top of the table….
I definitely think we’ll be better with Cesc and Rosicky (fingers crossed, of course) in the MF. And the pressing thing…it really shouldn’t work at the highest level but I do think it shows a commitment in the easier games that had been missing the past couple of seasons and that could mean a lot in the league and early rounds of the cup competitions.
Anybody else (Fred?) fancy a new keeper on Deadline day?
The match today was all about our not taking advantage of SOME of our opportunities.
To date, RvP is snake bit; like we have described Bendtner’s frustration last season.
Diaby is another year away from understanding who he is and how to channel his talents to benefit the team. Against the athletic caliber of a ManU, we cannot afford to field players with limited dimensions.
I thought today mirrored the same problems we had last season. Actually our build up into midfield was consistently good, but our midfield final passing & combination play failed to find the dangerous space behind the back 4 of United for our forwards to exploit.
All of the controversy about Eduardo has only raised our emotions and distracted our focus. It appears that our Manager and team are in the cross hairs of ALL officiating. Lets hope Arsene can stabilize the emotional tension.
A couple of new signings would be the right diversion.
I think it is more appropriate that I post this here:
Maz as usual I agree with Andez on this one, I am a cup half full kind a guy.
We dominated this game, I have never seen us dominate at OT since Silvain Wiltord scored the title decider other there so many years ago. We were far from shit Mazza, just simply unlucky. When they scored the penalty the commentator said that was only their 2nd shot on goal!!
what are you on about we had two clear chances before the rooney penalty
Overall, both teams were shit. I’ve seen us play far, far better than that at OT over the years.
When the game opened up, with the rain and subsequent higher tempo, we got found out again. We could have played for a three months tonight and not scored a second goal.
Maz as usual I agree with Andez on this one, I am a cup half full kind a guy.
We dominated this game, I have never seen us dominate at OT since Silvain Wiltord scored the title decider other there so many years ago. We were far from shit Mazza, just simply unlucky. When they scored the penalty the commentator said that was only their 2nd shot on goal!!
This is probably one of the most unlucky defeats i seen. We outplayed United both defensively and offensively. The pressing game worked to perfection. Rooney hardly got a kick of the ball.
Then there you go, a PENALTY. How many penalties we had conceded at Old Trafford over the years? I have lost count. Look at the replay, Rooney clearly pushed the ball wide BEFORE making contact with Almunia. Yet guess what? The TV didn’t even bother to show a replay, only ONCE. How many REPLAYS we saw on that Eduardo incident? I bet it must be 9 or 10 times in the match.
And if somehow anybody gets to watch the replay again, look at how Manuel “Six Yard Box” Almunia hestiated when he’s coming out, Gallas had already shielded the way and waiting for him to come. Yet Almunia hestiated before coming out. At this level, you are going to be punished.
Forget about DM, CD or whatever, if we could bring on ONE new player, get us a TOP CLASS KEEPER. or at least someone we can TRUST.
We’ve seen this movie before, several times. No one does self-destruct like Arsenal.
If the opposition doesn’t find a way to score, we’ll try our best to gift them it, and Arsene’s naive little kittens can do this in many ways.
Have to laugh the predictable nature of the subs as well. Wilshere is 4th in line, regardless of how the game is going.
depth ?
Oh how predictable Mazza. Lighten up son!
You do have a point about the subs though. However I doubt if Wilshere has the mental strength yet to be an impact sub when we are losing to the PL Champions, same as Ramsey. Ramsey however has the confidence but I don’t think he has developed the ability to match yet.
Personally I think our bench was woefully inadequate compared to theirs.
gotta laugh at wengers antics at the end “where do u want me to go?” LOL what a guy made me feel better
hopefully the boys dont get too down on themselves…thought we played well until the disasters
I think you could well win the title judging by that performance. We were far better than them, we were so so unfortunate.
When I said I hoped Diaby would be a match winner I meant for us :-(
Gotta love United fans getting all self-righteous about diving.
unbelievable
bloomin’ ‘ell
FUCK
Diaby, WTF?
Damn. That serial diver. Rooney, that is.
Old habit die hard eh, Eboue?
He was simply anticipating contact ;-)
Man U really applied the pressure at the end of the half, after they went down a goal. We’ve got to come out strong so they can’t keep up that momentum. If we attack them, they won’t be able to get into a good attacking rhythm of their own. Several (I think 3?) of our players now have to be very careful, playing the rest of the game on a Yellow Card.
Song, Gallas and RvP are on yellow.
fergies tactics have played right into our hands…look for an improved performance from them in the 2nd half altho i have to say…
ARSHAVIN U LEGEND!
We look better than them so far but …until the fat lady sings and all that.
I expect a better attitude from ManU 2nd half Diaby in particular will have to step up his game he has been quite poor Eboue has beem anly a little better, he looks nervous, hopefully the lead will help them to settle down.
Was not happyu with Arsha until his goal, but hey he is a match winner he can pull a rabbit out the hat at anytime.
All the best 2nd half, Gunners
Arsha WOW!!!
SMOKED!
Nice shot, Arsha !!!
‘Quality free kick from Wayne Rooney…” goes yards wide of the net? Man, this announcing team sucks.
Yeah, that was hilarious :)
Darn. I was hoping the game would be in ESPNHD. When will FSC broadcast in HD?
I am pretty sure we will see Eboue in the starting lineup. Arsene usually talks about being positive and agressive, then he fields a more conservative and defensive lineup (which often sends the wrong message to his players) Eboue did play well the other night. And I think he has the technical ability to link play between the midfield and forwards. But I am not sure he has matured enough for a hotly contested match at Old Trafford. If he starts in place of Diaby or Denilson, I am alright with it. But I don’t think he should start up front in place of any of RVP, Arshavin, Bendtner or Eduardo.
Allright you lot – settle down or I will force you all to tell me about how you discovered Arsenal and your first time at the Emirates. ;-)
Sorry for the lumping of Toure and Ade. I loved Toure just felt that his departure was needed. I will agree that most of the angst had to be coming from Beyonce’s biggest fan.
However, Gallas seems like a man on a mission since Toure left. Coincidence? I’m just just saying.
That’d actually be a nice thread in the international break ;).. once the moaning and gnashing about how we bought no one is done.
Yep, they’ve realy rejuvenated AA haven’t they, given it a complete overhaul.
The uplifting tales of discovering Arsenal and other ‘dynamic, different’ articles are just flooding in…..
Good stuff here today and I’m quite excited about today’s match but worried as well.
Regarding the tender veal of our midfield….Though only 22 I think Cesc has wisdom beyond his years and is key for keeping the fore-aft balance of the team in mind, with him out we can lose this in a heartbeat. Diaby has been storming forward nicely but lacks the conscience to get back defensively as he ought to, and Denilson, well, I don’t want to go there. Let’s just say that I’m concerned about losing possession with everyone forward and being exposed by good balls over the top from crotchety guys like Scholes, Giggs and Neville. They may be slow but the ball is fast….
Away from the match, I want to call Arthur out just a bit for getting down on DAG’s “tabloidy” previews. I think it’s pretty great what he’s done to move this discussion over here after the BS from the AA “board”. Also, I think he hit upon most of the key items (especially Valencia vs Clichy) for today’s match. That being said, I would object to his lumping of Ade with Kolo. I feel that Toure played pretty well and acted quite professionally despite his poor relationship with Gallas and having his head turned last January by the oil money–I hope he doesn’t get too much blame when Citeh fizzle out this season. Can’t say the same about Ade–Good player but good riddance.
But back to today’s match….Very funny and good description of RVP as a trotting thoroughbred circling and falling—Somtimes, however, he does pick out a nice pass or shot and, generally, he can deliver a decent left footed corner or free kick (which I haven’t seen Dudu do). Also, I see a lot of similarities between our Andrey and their Berbatov….nothing all game and then…WOW. I believe our player is the better one (even though we got him much cheaper)and I hope he is a difference maker today. Also would love to see Bendtner score as even his famous confidence will start to suffer if he doesn’t or if he watches the games back and sees how brutally he slows up our play.
Go On You Reds! (er, Dark Blues?) (And Chamakh and/or Matuidi at the nice price on Tuesday)
Highbury, rightly or wrongly I justified my criticism further up the comments in a reply to DAG.
Really, I have no issue against DAG personally. But if he writes BS on his blog I see no reason why I should not criticise it.
The rest of it may have been brilliant but once I got to the shitty part I did not want to read any further.
Sagna – Gallas – Vermaelen – Clichy
– Song –
– Denilson — – Diaby –
Bendtner Arshavin
-RVP-
I am thinking Wenger is going with this. But we will see.
Yikes, it’s all croocked!!
Yes, this will be the team. Arsene always plays it safe in the big games. Unless he is doing something stupid like dropping Arshavin for Diaby or Henry for Aliadiere. ;)
And by the way, if Wenger doesn’t add to the squad, I won’t be happy.
Remember, I said this before the game today ;)
As if you wouldn’t remind us. ;-)
Hleb back then ;)
I’m in two minds over the Cesc exclusion due to injury. On one hand we will miss his class on the ball and ability to play the pressure relieving pass, however on the other hand Fabregas barely ever plays well at Old Trafford and struggles physically against the likes of Carrick and Fletcher, as well Anderson. He seems to slow us down too much at OT as well, when we would better served being more direct, especially with our current personnel lending itself to such a style.
Denilson, Diaby, and Song might enjoy not having to pass everything to Fabregas and as such might bring a bit more of their own individualism to the party. Diaby especially has that ability to just surge through the centre and make it look very easy, something Fabregas simply cannot do.
Nevertheless, I still think that central three are too naive and are lacking legs over the course of a full ninety, so I can see us giving up concessions in there and having to ride out a few dangerous counters.
The unproven nature of that central midfield would have been offset by a top notch forward line, but I don’t think we will have that today. Wenger will drop Eduardo for that horse RVP, who will spend the whole game making himself dizzy turning in circles before being fouled, and Arshavin is not playing well, going through his one of his well known quiet periods. Bendtner? Who knows which one will come off the coach.
I think we can pull off a 1-1 if we play near our potential but I just feel the game will go away from us late on When Berbatov and Rooney find space.
RVP turning in circles.. lol lol lol .. quite true that but then again he has the ability to crank it up in big games .. much like Arshavin. Is Rosicky fit and travelling? He could give us 15 valuable minutes today.
I thought I read that Rosocky could be ready for today, but I haven’t seen anything to confirm that.
I think Eduardo is going to be on the bench. Seems Arsene thinks this week’s antics with UEFA has effected him.
I think he’d be on the bench either way .. who knows though. Kickoff is just 2 hours away. Cant wait :)
Edit: Rosicky doesn;t travel. Its there on the big test article on Arsenal.com
Haha, just like the good old days. A good forum would not be complete without the unique mix of wit and gloom of such as Mazza.
“Wenger will drop Eduardo for that horse RVP, who will spend the whole game making himself dizzy turning in circles before being fouled,”
Absolute classic ;-) . So I suppose RvP is your new Adebayor aye? ;-)
As for Cesc think you should evaluate his input based on his present form and character shown so far this season and to some extent preseason. I think he has worked far harder this season than I have seen him since the Milan game. I don’t think it’s Cesc that slows us down at old Trafford, it would more likely be a collective thing. I have not checked how much assists he has got so far but have seen him make some really delicious passes in the few games I have seen him.
I do think if Diaby can do what we can do “surge through the centre and make it look very easy,” then yes his inclusion can make up for the loss somewhat. But how often does Diaby do it? Consistency the key that unlocks doors on a regular basis. Does Diaby have it? Not from what I have seen so far, great in the first game all to negative in the 2nd. If that pattern continues he shoild have a stormer this one :-D
Fabregas looks better this year but I feel he needs the likes of Nasri and Rosicky around him to potentiate his contribution.
I think in some ways, with a depleted side, we might do better without him. Players like Diaby and Denilson know they will have to step up.
Which, after three or so years of being nutured like little calves in a farm, they should be capable of doing now.
Wow, and no mention of Hleb ;-)
They will sure need to step up, but you are right they are capable.
Cesc destroyed ManU in that 1-0 a few years ago though when Ade scored. That way Henry rarely did anything either against ManU but he could pop up in 93″ and score. Its all about big players being there.. always gives you that little bit extra when you need it..
Yeah, I was going to mention that assist but forgot.
That’s it, match winners,they can have a quiet game and then just pop up and play the decisive through ball ala Cesc or simply score four like Arsha. Let’s hope Diaby can be a match winner today.
Yep, the good old days of Hleb and Rosicky and a MOTIVATED Ade.
I’m with LDE…the reference to whirling dervish RVP was a real smile.
I don’t feel like Mazza’s post was gratuitously negative at all. Is it being unnecessarily gloomy to ask questions of our MF today? If so, I would expect a very gloomy attitude from ManUre all afternoon.
But, hell, boys. It’s Footy Christmas! Happy watching to all, and to all a good afternoon.
I thought the deverish RVP was hilarious too.
As for the gloom, that is just me having my customary dig at Mazza. I do not think he was particularly gloomy today but his prediction of a likely defeat was enough for me to tag him with today.
Just a bit of fun with Mazza, so I thought, I didn’t think anyone would take it too seriously. But it appears you are watching my every word at the moment vibe, get over it ;-)
We are in good form, but against this level of competition, it will take something
magical from the person replacing Cesc. I have not seen Diaby or Denilson as our midfield maestros.
With the limitation of players available, I would utilize this lineup:
Almunia
Sagna—Gallas—Vermaelen—-Clichy
—————-Song————
—-Denilson———————
————-Arshavin————
RvP———————–Eduardo
———Bendtner—————-
subs: Eboue – Diaby – Wilshere
I prefer Bendtner up front vs RvP or Eduardo – his physical
presence will tie up their centerbacks.
For the style we play, we must control midfield and
there must be that key person to be the playmaker.
Diaby will start. 100%. Practically 4 strikers on the pitch from Minute 1 at Old Trafford is a bad idea IMHO. Though you never know what AW thinks.. but Dudu will be saved for impact sub me thinks.
WHATS UP FELLLASS. Nice to see you guys here (after being kicked out by AA)That site is a grave yard btw.
Hi tAi nice to see you too.
I think they want it that way.
Great profile on the maturation of Alex Song: http://bit.ly/Thawp
Calls himself the first defender in the midfield.
Curious – Arshavin says he is still is not fit to play more than 20 minutes a match:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/08/29/1468257/arsenal-star-andrey-arshavin-not-fully-fit-yet
Brief interruption – Viera says this is his last year in Europe and that he would like to experience the United States:
http://bit.ly/EFvOw
If he does it that would put two Arsenal players in MLS witha possible third – Henry – joining.
Okay back to our regular discussion
Can Arsenal step up to the challenge, dictate the game and win it?
With Cesc, I would have been confident. With Diaby and Denilson, I have my doubts. But I would love to be proved wrong. Arshavin is the other trump card. If he turns on, it could be a good day for us.
Our chances are good, but will be ruthless enough to make it count?
Evra thinks we are ruthless:
http://bit.ly/MoT3j
It’s true. We have no Ruth.
I am hoping for a Arsenal victory today, however the absence of Cesc is a big blow and our creative dynamism will be hampered. Oh how I would love Rosicky to be ready for this game!
Arsha doesn’t look he is at his best presently, maybe it is because of the system we are playing which probably gives him more defensive responsibility that hinders his attacking instincts. However the great man may well come to the fore today, we will need him. The Gallas Vermaelen patnership will be sorely tested today with the guile of Rooney and Berbatov and the crossing ability of Valencia to supply the front line and a often attack focussed midfield.
This will be a really interesting game if we can win this and beat City it will tell us that we are genuine title contenders. Two draws tell us nothing, two defeats says we are still not ready yet.
Like result a draw but being a “HO” I will go for an unlikely 3-2 to the Arsenal :-D
HO .. love it. Took a moment to register :D
Thnx for the regular posts DAG.. I’ll try and contribute a few too. As for the game here is how I think it’ll pan out:
Foster will let in 1 atleast..question is can we test him enough?
There is a high possibility of Gary Neville being ripped a new one by Arshavin and company. If he doesn’t kick he’ll get ripped. I hope he gets a yellow card early and shuts up. I hope we play long diagonals to Evra’s flank where Bendtner wins everything against Evra and shuts his forward runs down.. he invariably makes atleast 1 good cross a game. Wes Brown is normally a very average CB .. much like Senderos .. question is will he turn up today. If he doesn’t then Vidic will struggle against the quick interchanging of the Arsenal front 5.. well RVP isn’t exactly a gazelle but he can pass it around too.
If Denilson and Diaby have good games we will win today.. much like if Brown and Vidic have good games ManU will have the upper hand. I think Anderson will definitely come on today.. mostly in the second half for Scholes or Giggs and have a stormer.. thing is can we ensure we’re 2-0 up before that?
One of Gallas-Vermalean’s big tests today against Rooney and the lazy yet silky Berbatov. if they come through this it’ll be a big boost. Clichy against Valencia is another must win.. an excellent crosser against an at times too adventurous left back who gets sucked into the middle giving time for the cross. If he does that too many times the CB pairing will concede. Sagna has been off colour this season IMO and I hope he gets it right today. If we’re behind wouldn’t mind seeing Eboue play at RB instead for a while.
I think ManU will have under 10 shots on target .. question is Can Almunia keep all of them out and come out to claim the high crosses today? Last year he knew he had to come out due to that terrible aerial presence. This year Vermalean has calmed that to an extent.. hs that made Big Al complacent again? Hope not.
All in all we will compete and have a chance if we stick to our strengths, don’t hoof forward and continue our pressing game in the opposition half.
ManU 1 – Arsenal 2
Oh and BTW I always watch this before every Old Trafford game. Gets my juices going:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPkxEvl3GYg
Guess which ManU player lost the ball which lead to our goal. The same player is now our first choice CB backup (since Djourou is injured most of the time). :(
Indeed Nipuna. It pains me to even think of it. But wait there’s hope.. Sendy might not be sold after all.
LDE please, please post some articles. You have always written pretty balanced, informative and entertaining previews etc.
I just cannot stomach the tabloid style, sensationalist conjecture above.
I have decided I won’t even read them anymore just comment on the comments or the match. Come on LDE, Sachin, Andez etc, etc.
Thank You Arthur. I will try and post a few. I wanted to do a piece on the 4-3-3 but that’s been done to death here anyway. AA became to claustrophobic last year where you couldn’t have an opinion without getting called a fool. And really I saw no point in the justifying tit tat.. hence my hibernation. You know.. the best part about the good start is that people have forgotten the transfer window and moaning for new players in every other blog :).
Well I am glad you only went into hibernation and you are now back. The likes of Wayne could not handle the barrage and did not come back at all. Not that I blame him, being treated like a fool for having a different opinion is not a valuable use of precious time.
Yeah, the good start has changed the mood in the Arsenal blogosphere somewhat. Players are being applauded rather than derided. Yet for some, old habits die hard still can’t help moaning about someone be it Al or Denilson ;-) , Diaby or Bendtner.
How long will the respect for our players and manger continue? The Big question, a humbling defeat to ManU will see the knives back out.
Ah indeed. I chat with Wayne once in a way on GMail. He says he still follows the AA bunch but doesn’t post despite being tempted to get involved. In a way I think AA has made me a more tolerant person in life!! So I guess I should thank Fred and company :D. He stays around an hour or two away from me but we have never been able to meet at all sadly despite planning multiple times.
I like all those players, Diaby a little less but I like all of them and would love them to succeed without us buying big. Time will tell.
Knives will be out even if we go on a 30 match winning streak and lose to a dodgy penalty at Stoke in January. Then the “lack of steel” and “AW stubbornnness” and “uselessness” will be all so apparent to the “experts” :D
Say hi to Wayne for me. Tell him to post once in a while, some have not forgotten and appreciate his positive input. Brings a bit more balance to the discussion it did get a little too gloomy at times on AA.
I like all those players too and there are other really promising youngsters coming through the ranks.
But we do seem to have a lack of quality in the DM/Song position. He has no real like for like cover, except a youngster called Coquelin who will surely be pushing for the first team in a couple of seasons. However we did play well enough without Song against Pompey.
Arthur,
“I just cannot stomach the tabloid style, sensationalist conjecture above.” seems a little rude to our host. DAG created this spot so we would have someplace to go after we were made unwelcome at AA. You can flatter LDE, without trashing MP’s efforts, no?
Not Wayne
When you say “flatter” that seems to imply that I am trying to curry favour or what I am saying is not true. If that is your intention I will like to let you know I will never meet LDE therefore I have no favours to gain from him. As for the quality of his articles that cannot be doubted whether you agree with him or not.
You know me well enough, if I don’t like something that has been said and I can be bothered to reply then I will do so.
I am sure MP knows when he set up the blog that when he writes controversial articles or comments then he will be open for criticism.
What has Wayne got to do with it?
Ouch tabloid sensationalism?
Look by all means – I hope everyone else does start writing. When I Started the blog, I admitted my chops were weak. That being said, I do spend some time researching what I am going to write before I write it. I don’t think there is anything sensationalist about it.
The boys have been in good form. If they are in bad form or if there are glaring weaknesses, I will surely point them out. That being said, I do think the team is in a positive direction. When I see a negative, I am sure I will make mention of it – like when Senderos is somehow on the squad.
I don’t mind the negative criticism at all – I really don’t it will only help me make a better product. Thanks for the comments.
Cheers –
MP aka DAG
I will not even answer Vibe, we have history and he just likes trying to make trouble for me ;-).
DAG I don’t like people disrespecting our players, even our former ones Toure in particular.
I didn’t read the rest of the article because once I read:
“Also gone are Emmanuel Adebayor and Kolo Toure, two, from all indications, malignant tumors in the dressing room who sorely fouled up the attitude of the team. Like the lesions they are, they now find themselves cutoff,” I switched off, this is what I call “tabloid style, sensationalist conjecture,” based primarily on nothing more than hearsay, bias and prejudice. I had no time to argue the point, just let you know that not everybody appreciate that kind of BS
After the “Who is the biggest Wanker” so called article I hardly hold you in the highest esteem. That kind of talk is what I would expect from a uncivilised, uneducated football thug.
No personal disrespect I do not know you as I person, therfore I cannot judge you but I felt strongly enough to judge the article you wrote. If you are going to write stuff like that with no evidence, you might well please the majority but do not be offended if the minority rails against you. Those whom are quick to criticise should not be offended when they themselves are criticised.
No personal disrespect taken Arthur. I have thicker skin that that (ex-Navy).
However, I will continue to write articles like “Biggest Wanker” when players, past present and future say stupid and assinine things.
Admittedly, I shouldn’t have lumped Toure into the same bin as Adebayor. But frankly, I think could argue that Gallas early on has shown that he is a different player since Toure has gone.
Players aren’t sacraosanct nor are the team. If they are open to just criticism they are going to get it.
In the case of “Wankers” Cashley and Ade fairly deserve the criticism they got.
But I digress, Arthur, I would only ask you NOT to change. I love praise of course but I also love the criticism.
I will endeavor to be less tabloidish and more newsy.
Thanks again for the comments. Really, I mean that.
@DaAdminGooner,
Thanks for the thanks.
Naturally you have the right to write what you want to. And you are correct all players are open to criticism what I object to is people forming opinions based on pure hearsay and helping to transfer this opinion as fact on a merry-go-round of hearsay. Dramatic language is fine when used appropriately. when it’s used in criticism, often founded on rumour contrary to the fact it’s off putting. Not everyboby hates or undervalues the people you do, so for them it is a real turn off when you disrespect their former heros in such a manner.
As for Kolo I will remind you that the Toure Gallas partnership was working extremely well after Gallas lost the captaincy and before Gallas got injuried. Gallas had complained earlier on in the season that he was not in good form. We can see Gallas’ form had improved drastically since then and has apparently continued to blossom post injury and into the new season. It is ridiculous claim Gallas has got better due to a players departure. I am sure he has thick skin too, I doubt if Toure’s intial greviance with him (whoever’ fault it was, let’s not simply assume it was Toure’s) fazed him at all, after all he got publicly stripped of the captaincy and despite the supposed ego that he stereotypically poses he showed the utmost professionalism.
After the first wave of Toure to Man City rumours around January Toure implied he and Gallas had buried their differences and said they get on fine or words to that effect. He has stated that his reasons for leaving and there is no mention of him having any kind of rift with the dressing room. Kolo will always be a King to me. And I will always appreciate a misunderstood Adebayor, who is largely a victim of the rumour mill and his own naivety.