EPL Match Day 33: Arsenal v Tottenahm Hotspur: Match Preview
By some time this afternoon (or evening in Engerland) – either the red or blue parts of Manchester are going to be made extremely happy by either the red or blue parts of North London. While, the ties against Arsenal and Tottenham have always been chippy affairs today’s meeting has broader implications than any has had in recent times.
For Arsenal, thanks to our friends on the Tyenside, hope rises again like a phoenix from the ashes. Manchester dropped points again travelling away from Newcastle. This only means that Arsenal have yet another opportunity to make up ground on the red Devils. But as we’ve discussed, even as late as the Liverpool pre-game – when presented with the opportunity to catch United, this team simply does not seem to have what it takes to close the gap.
Call it what you will. Blame on who you can, whatever the reason, our Gunners simply lack the fortitude to get the job done. I’ve been beating the mental aspect of the game side of the story for a while now. I continue to believe that. I absolutely believe there is enough talent on this team to do something good. What it lacks is the confidence to get itself over the hump. Frankly, it is what United have that Arsenal don’t. Simply put United always have the belief they will win. I wouldn’t sit here and say that man for man that United are a better side talent wise. But they are made up of people who know how to win and what it takes to win.
And that’s what it is going to take. It is going to take winning something, ANYTHING, to get this team going, It is why the Carling Cup was so important and is the very core of what is wrong. This club has not recovered from the tailspin that the Carling Cup defeat started it on. Whereas we we talking of the positives that would come by winning the Carling Cup, , we never talked about what would happen if they would lose that competition. And frankly, the facts have been there before are eyes this season and last. When things go wrong, they simply go very wrong and there isn’t anyone even Wenger himself who seems to be able to right the ship.
Look, it’s this simple, there at this point an outside chance of catching United. But because of our own failures we have also let Chelsea back in it. That means we have to win. A further drop is only going to make it worse on the team and moreso worse on the fans who’s cry for change is only growing louder with each missed Arsenal scoring opportunity. Liverpool practically gifted this past Sunday’s match to the Guners and the red and white failed to seize the opportunity. A win then would’ve placed less emphasis on this tie than there is on it now. The pressure has only increased.
The good thing for Arsenal is that our “friends” from that other club in North London, are not on their best run themselves. In Spurs last 7 games they have managed just 6 goals. Three of those ties have been 0-0 draws. For Arsenal it is not much better though – in 7 games we have 7 goals and two 0-0 draws.
White Heart Lane, though is always a tough place to play. It still has that atmosphere that all Gooners complain is lacking from the Emirates. A win by Spurs not only gives them momentum against Manchester City and the fight for that elusive Champion’s League spot, it would also give them the season double for the first time in the history of the EPL. We all know what it means if Arsenal win (besides the obvious St. Totteringham’s Day references).
We’ve all discussed adnauseum, the frailties and pitfalls of this club. Gooners don’t have a lot to be happy about right now. 2 months ago we were kings of the world. Then March came and it all came crashing down. The form since the Carling Cup exit has been paltry. Sure, we’re 15 games unbeaten in the EPL. But there a lot of draws in there. While that’s nice, Gooners want more. Personally, a win against our hated rivals would go a long way towards making all of us happy again.
How the Match Should Play Out:
This is going to be quick from the minute the first whistle blows. The real challenge will be which team has the legs to go on. Arsenal played 100+ minutes on Sunday. Nearly a full portion of a extra time was played. That Liverpool match got wooly towards the end – before anyone scored. The question is are the Gunners are going to have gas in the tank to take on the WORLD”S BEST PLAYER. And Spurs only just got knocked out of the Champion’s League do they have gas. And can Peter Crouch stay on his feet long enough. It’s going to be a tight affair and frankly based on the form of both teams, I see a 2-2 draw.
Players To Watch:
Arsenal: Theo Walcott. Theo hasn’t been scoring a lot but his pace is definitely creating opportunities. On the same side as the WORLD”s BEST PLAYER, Theo will keep monkey boy Bale honest and maybe take some pressure of Sagna.
Tottenham: Gareth Bale. I am loathe to discuss Monkey boy. Sorry didn’t think he was deserving of PFA player of the year with 7 goals and 1 assist in the EPL. But there is no doubting his pace and that is what makes him dangerous. He’s scored in each of the last two meetings of these teams. Sagna will have an interesting day with him.
Projected Starting Lineups:
Injuries and Suspensions:
Arsenal: Fabianksi (shoulder) Vermaelen (achilles) Almunia (D- knee)
Tottenham: Hutton (knee) Palacios (knee) Woodgate (calf), King (groin) Kranjcar (D – foot) Pienaar (D – groin)
Last Meeting (EPL):
Arsenal: 2
Tottenahm: 3
Current Form:
Arsenal: DWDDD
Tottenahm: WDDDL
Goals For:
Arsenal (away): 2.1
Tottenham (home): 1.5
Goals Against:
Arsenal (away): 1.2
Tottenham (home): 0.8
Goal Differential:
Arsenal: 32
Tottenham: 8
Leading Scorers:
Arsenal: Van Persie 17 (13 league) Nasri 14 (9 league)
Tottenham: Van der Vaart: 12 (10 league) Bale 11 (7 league) Pavlyuchenko 11 (7 league) Crouch 11(4 league)
Match Officials:
Referee: Martin Atkinson
Assistant Referees: John Flynn & Peter Kirkup
Fourth Official: Stuart Attwell
Broadcast Information:
US: ESPN2/3 2:45 PM EST
UK: Sky Sports 1 1945 BST
GAMEDAY CHAT: It’s Open!!!!!! www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
YAMA Prediction:
Arsenal: 2
Spurs: 2
Some Final Thoughts:
A lot is being made of the recent article on various Websites, the BBC included, that said Cesc said the team lacked maturity and that the youth policy has failed. Many are seeing this a sure sign that Cesc Fabregas will try and leave again this summer. There’s also another side that sees this as him caring deeply about the club. It’s one or the other with one side or the other isn’t it.
First let me say, I do not think Fabregas will be going anywhere this year. Rosell has laid the gauntlet down on how much they are willing to pay for Fabregas – about £35 million. Down from their supposed £40 million from last year. He has said they will not go higher than that. Fabregas hasn’t had the greatest season but he is the team’s little engine that could. They will not let him go for anything less than £45-£50 million. What I expect to happen is a bid to lodged by Barcelona for about £35 million to which Arsenal will reject it. Barcelona will preen for a little while decrying the injustice of keeping someone who has their DNA at a club other than Barca. When nothing comes of it they will tell their fans they tried in order to placate them
However, do the Barca fans really want him? On the biggest stage in front of his hometown, he laid the biggest egg imaginable. After the match a snap poll was done of Barca fans and 56% of them said they did not want him. They wanted Rafa and Thiago Alcantra to be the heirs to the current midfield setup.
Let me add my own quick thought on it all – while I don’t think he will go anywhere, it doesn’t mean I don’t think its time to consider letting him go. I really like the lad and when he plays on his game he is so sublime to watch. But when he doesn’t play his game he is a hindrance to the club because of their over reliance on him. I want him here I really do – but I wouldn’t be completely upset if he was sold.
Finally just some interesting stats on the whole North London Derby:
- In the EPL era Arsenal are 14W 7 L 16D
- In WW1 Spurs played all their matches at Highbury. During WWII Arsenal played all their matches at White Heart Lane
- There have been 6 players who have played for Arsenal then gone on to sign for Spurs. Can you name them?
- Through the history of tie there have been 238 matches played in all competitions – Arsenal have a 96W 56D 86L record – which suggests this tie has always been a closely played affair.
And then this (yeah I know I said finally earlier) if you are a listener for World Football Dailywith Kenny Hassan – at 12:40 EST/9:40 PST (1740 BST) I will be discussing Arsenal with Kenny and the run in to the Derby. I am pretty excited. I hope you’ll tune in.
That’s it for now. We’ll see you in the GDC.
Stay Goonerish!!!
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Yup, I have always noted and said on here every summer that no team ever wins without a solid midfield. The central midfield is for me, more crucial than the defense or offense line.
Without a strong, dynamic, intelligent, dogged midfield with sufficient tactical awareness you do NOT win. Ever.
We have been crying for strengthening in there since 2005 – to no avail.
But even as a midfield “fetishist”, I must say, for a while I was completely deceived by Alex Song. Diaby and Denilson were easy to sous out early. But for a while there I was deceived by the crowd about Song.
Lazy, slow, poor passer, lacking any sort of intensity. He is absolutely NOT the answer at DM. He looks good just by standing beside Denilson.
Song might actually be MORE dangerous than Diaby and Denilson, because with the latter duo, their deficiencies are so obvious, even Wenger won’t play them in a serious match if he didnt have to.
But guys, dont worry, Emmanuel Frimpong is gonna save us next season!
Hilarious, cutting, and accurate commentary by the usual suspects.
I’m with Fred. Unless United cock up again on Sat, and we win at Bolton, I want us to totally collapse and make Captain Smirk really have to dig deep into his box of clap trap. All this “he looks a beaten man” or “I’ve never seen him look so angry” spiel is getting tiring. He’s had the weary puppy dog look for a while, and it garners little sympathy from me. Because it’s all his own doing.
Focusing on personnel problems seems almost beside the point when one realizes such things all stem from the man at the top, but there certain positions/players in our squad that just are so obviously not up to standard, it’s impossible to ignore (even filtering through to the AKB’s finally).
Yep, that’s right, the central midfield area. I said about three years ago that Diaby, Denilson, Song would probably be the most explicit reasons why we would win sweet fa for the rest of the Wenger’s tenure. All complete grade A clowns. I think I compared them to lead weights around our ankles or something. And it’s true. Lack of mobility, poor awareness, lack of intensity (see that git Song at the end smiling away exchanging shirts with Gallas while Cesc’s shoulders slumped).These three symbols of Wenger’s botched ‘experiment’ still retain their inadequacies despite their ‘development’ and yet will Wenger let them go, or even acknowledge their weakness? Nope, because he said this only last year:
“But I believe strongly that our midfield are developing very well with Song, Diaby and Denilson because they are young, very young, but different to Patrick Vieira.
“I believe in them because if you compare them two years ago and this year they are tremendously improved and if they continue to play together, especially with Fabregas, they have a good understanding.
“I believe the midfield was not a problem this year because we created so many chances from midfield and we dominated nearly all the games in midfield. I don’t think we had a big problem in there. I believe we had a problem of efficiency defensively.”
Here is evidence that Wenger is absolutely fucking clueless when it comes to solving our deficiencies. The main root of it consistently eludes him and so it’s no longer an issue of him acting on team weaknesses, but actually being aware of them in the first place.
So on every count we’re screwed with him in charge. He’s too stubborn to address issues, and it seems, incapable of even identifying them. The former could be explaining the latter (although you can’t keep NOT taking things at face value just to accentuate this myth that he’s secretly got it all worked out and he’s sparing feelings)
Don’t get me started on Gael Clichy………..
@Mazza, Powerful stuff, and fairly reasonable….How about Alex Hleb for the third time lucky Arsenal returnee on the cheap (after Sol and Jens)?…..
One thing that I’ve always maintained is that, in addition to the observation/criticisms that we armchair managers can indulge, the real one also has to manage the confidence of his players. In this regard AW has probably gone too far and the spirit of (ruthless) competition is spared (or at least hidden away). It’s all a happy group that just can’t quite get the needed results.
To a certain extent I really do think that a few fortunate results would have helped—A LOT. (Our boy Bendtner backpassing to Victor Valdes, in particular, haunts, as does the CC final….) Because we didn’t get them, we will never know and the judgments are that much harsher while the platitudes ring that much falser….
Unlike some here, I’m NOT of the mind that an infusion of confidence from a good win or two was all we needed. It’s much deeper than that if the goal is world domination (which it is, despite our current troubles)….
Either way the real question is, What can be done? What’s the alternative? Sure, a new manager and a some new (name) players might provide the impetus. Real Madrid won a trophy (yesterday) on the back of Jose Mourinho and his boys holding Barca scoreless for 120 mins. Players like (young German WC stars) Kedhira and Ozil (at the expense of YAMA faves like the Diarras) were maybe the difference, but maybe it was focus and intensity from the (new) manager. Will they go on from that victory and win over two legs in the CL? It’s worth watching….probably….
Madrid are likely operating at a financial level to which we cannot compare. More reasonable perhaps is looking at the English leaders, who, with their long-tenured manager, will win the league (at a trot) and have a shout for THE double. How does SAF do it? There is real competition for places and even some very big money purchases (Berbatov, for example) have to prove it on the pitch. Maybe not being in lockstep with the owners over budget austerity has freed Sir Alex to focus on getting the job done. Certainly the early season run of draws (and pronouncements about their debt and player sales and newfound weakness) has been overshadowed by our own here at the business end….
Still, I wouldn’t hold my breath expecting big changes just because of the new owner….As the boys from Shepherd’s Bush put it, “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”…..
I think you can listen to just my interview up on the WorldFootballDaily web site. Its up on the right hand side. WorldFootballDaily.com
“Wengker” or “Wangker” or the less subtle “Wanker”…. Reasonably clever and preferable to many of the other slurs that have been trotted out…..Actually rooting for bad results seems a bit too far—even if the manager and hated players leave, some part of the team will remain, and it could use a dose of confidence, the sort that comes with some victories and not tailing off too badly here at the end of the campaign. But that’s just me…..
Public statements about mental strength, etc., notwithstanding, I found yesterday’s result, like the one from Sunday, all too predictable and maybe a bit worse as I gave in to a little bit of hope when we took a two goal lead. Luckily, like the lead itself, it didn’t last long….
We’re like the Blackpool of the bigger clubs–no lead is safe and we can concede at any moment, which seems, by-the-way, to be the exact opposite of “mental strength”. Our ability to play a little keep-ball seems gone and, unless Cesc can create a miracle hail-mary pass (which Theo can miraculously control) we seem pretty tame playing on the break.
Initially I thought Song/Diaby was a nice change from young (but jaded) Jack, but the defensive show from the two bigger players was maybe even worse than their giveaways and lack of penetration with the ball. Yes, both have struggled with injury (Diaby hurt again?) but some of the tracking and tackling was laughable and Diaby maybe could have been sent off for any combination of called (and uncalled) late and/or dangerous ones. The series of yellows at the start of the 2nd half was a harbinger….
While the Chicken Littles will worry about how to replace Cesc and Nasri, I see more of a need to replace the likes of Hleb and Rosicky (who can’t even make the bench) so we can actually guard a lead with possession. Ramsey is being courted by Fulham for a season long loan and (as I remember) was better further forward (like Nasri, perhaps). Gokhan Inler seems back on the radar and I have been impressed with him the few times I’ve watched. Placing our hopes on young Jack or the latest Manny (Frimpong) seems a stretch….
At least we’ve got a keeper who keeps going. Unlike Flappy whose confidence faltered badly at this point last season, Sneezy seems unfazed by making the classic errors of his elders on the bench: Like Manny he got beat at the near post and like Jens he was rash with the challenge and gave away the (game-tying) penalty. His strut seemed unharmed and his saves at the end probably saved us the point.
I agree that the subs seemed pointless but I fault the players rather than the manager. Our formation allows for interchange of attackers (witness the central goals by Theo and Nasri yesterday) but it takes some pace, initiative and/or fitness which Andrey and SuperNick seem to lack. If the team does do some selling this summer my bet would be on those two….
Another tough one looms on Sunday…..What are the odds on another draw? And would a draw/loss raise the specter of United securing the title at the Emirates? (Only if Chelsea also drop points….Arsenal however, could be eliminated….) Oh well, I guess that’s what some (many?) on this board are rooting for…..
@highburyterracesteve,
There is nothing “miracle” or “hail-mary” about a Cesc pin-point pass. He does quality thru-balls more consistently than ANY other player in Europe. And has been doing it for 5 years and running. It is not his fault if the vast majority of his balls are not properly utilized by our non-dynamic forwards.
Chesny is the very least of our problems. Any team can and should afford one or two youngsters. Chesny and Wilshere are hard-working, extremely confident and have the CLEAR quality NOW and hence just need a little bit more experience. But we must balance these TWO with REAL players. Unfortunately we are not doing that.
It is not Chesny’s fault his entire backline and two DMs are complete doofuses!
He got beat at the near post but am sure he was not expecting VdV to completely destroy Diaby that quickly (for the first). As for the pen., EVERY keeper has conceded a penalty like that. Including Cech, Reina and van der Sar (all this season).
I dont know about the Stoke game, but I hope Man U win the EPL at the Emirates after spanking the Wenger Girls with early goals in the first half, so that the stadium empties very, very fast. And that those that stay chant “Wenger out, Wenger out, Wenger out!”
Yes, I want Wenger sweating buckets!
@Fred, I’m pretty sure we play Bolton this Sunday….
Agree about Jack and Sneezy….two bright spots for sure, but are they for the “future which never comes?”….Not quite sure about the 4 in front of the keeper being “doofusses” (doofii?) If you’re looking to ship them out, I’d take a VERY strong sleeping pill (because you are dreaming….)
And speaking of dreams…the “Wenger Out” scenario would be interesting at the very least…..Still don’t see anything like that happening, but what do I know…..
@highburyterracesteve,
“I agree that the subs seemed pointless but I fault the players rather than the manager.”
What exactly does this mean??
Why is Wenger making a pointless substitution that has NEVER worked?
Why is Wanker playing a player like Bendtner on the WINGS?
Why does he not change formations?
Sorry, it is ALL Wanker’s fault.
@Fred, Please read what I wrote about the freedom of the front three to interchange positions freely. Bendy lacks the pace AND the initiative to take up those good spaces in the box….IMO he’s already got one foot out the door (for better or worse, as does Arshavin)….
Just my opinion, of course, and a strong word from AW might go a long way. Part of the problem, I think, is that the manager trusts his players to think too much on their own. Whether they’re thick or disengaged or trying too hard to leave space for others, I just don’t see enough selfishness beyond the usual characters (Cesc, Nasri, RVP and Arsh).
But I agree, that in the end much of it must be placed at the manager’s feet…..In many ways it could be spun as Weng(k)er has “lost the team”…..
@highburyterracesteve,
What freedom to interchange? The only player who does any sort of interchange is Walcott and it is completely random … so it is not coming from Wanker.
Sorry, for ALL Bendys faults, finding space in the box is his main strength. If not he will not be in the position to miss all those chances.
His current problem is that he is so far from the box.
“The title race is completely open,” Wenger said.
“This team has a remarkable attitude and even if at the moment we do not have the number of points, we are remarkably consistent and it was a difficult game tonight.
“Chelsea are now back in the race. Chelsea play Man United and Tottenham but it’s down to us.
“We have to keep our faith and keep battling.”
SHUT THE FUCK UP!
The title race is wide open?! Are you serious? Even if we (or Chelsea) win all our remaining games, Utd only need to take 10 pts from their last 5 games to clinch the title. That is NOT wide open. Especially when your only league win in 2 months was against Blackpool.
And what’s this ‘attitude’ he’s referring to? He says he likes it, but I don’t. Last time I checked, just off the top of my head, we’ve coughed up a 2-goal lead to Spurs (twice), choked away a FOUR goal lead, allowed a goal in the 102nd minute of a game, allowed a goal with less than 15 mins left against TWO different Championship teams, and we wrapped a cup final in a bow and gave it to our opponents.
@ChicagoGooner,
Remember Baghdad Bob? Sadaam’s Press guy in ’03? The dude who would insist there were no tanks in Iraq, even as they were driving by right behind him? I’m sure he knew he wasn’t fooling anyone, but his shite-talking made sense as he really didn’t want to get shot.
Wenger, on the other hand, may really believe his nonsense. Or at least that someone does.
@vibe4arsenal,
AKBs believe his bullshit and the Wanker knows it.
The AKBs meanwhile are keeping quiet, “reading but not commenting”. Waiting perhaps for the sunshine of September, when they can proclaim that the club has “improved” and that our players have gotten “better” based on thrashing some random Carling Cup teams before the New Year.
I am really looking forward to blasting those AKBs when they make those ridiculous claims from September onwards.
As for the rest of the season, I am hoping for MAXIMUM PAIN and discomfort for Arsene Wanker. Am talking embarrassing defeats, dropping out of top 3, etc (not that wouldnt happen anyway), so that the fire under Wanker’s seat becomes a nice, warm 500 degrees C going into the summer.
@Fred,
“I am really looking forward to blasting those AKBs when they make those ridiculous claims from September onwards.”
You know better. The Men in Black come every Summer, wave the magic pens in front of them, and next Fall it’ll be as if it never happened…again (and again and again and again).
I can’t go as far as you, in terms of rooting for Arsenal’s defeat. But I’m well past the point of being surprised or upset when it happens. You’d hope the ‘maximum pain for Wenger’ would lead to change, but I don’t really see it happening. I’m pretty much resigned we’ll coast along like this until he decides to unseat himself, but there will flashes between June and August in which I’ll dare hope.
Where can I get one of those magic pens? I’d love to forget what I know.
@vibe4arsenal, interesting Tom Adams article on the main soccernet page contains the same example regarding Wenger :) Ofcourse, I am assuming you are not Tom Adams.
But love the main picture of Wenger. Behind hi
there is a banner which is cut off so the only words that are visible are “We’ll Fix It”. Almost as priceless as the picture oh Henry in the underground standing underneath a sign which said “Way Out”
with Arsenal, one does not have to try too hard. Irony, misery, and a joke are always within eye-sight.
@Sachin,
Ha! I swear to you, I am neither Tom Adams, nor have I seen that article. I’m not one to swipe to begin with, but that would be a pretty clumsy place to steal from.
Truth is, it’s looking more and more like the media has begun stealing from US.
:-))
It was an excellent article and reflects my sentiments exactly.
Good reading.
@Sachin,
Okay, just read it. Thanks for the heads up (I read the British papers much more often….ESPN’s is a noisy page).
It genuinely reads very much like things that have been posted on here. All old news to those of us still posting. Maybe later I’ll skim the comments to see if the YAMA ‘readers’ are calling Tom or Cesc ‘doomers’.
@vibe4arsenal, Oh I didn’t mean for a second that you swiped it. I should have clarified. And I agree that the media are now finally saying what Arsenal fans have been for a few years. Which is why I was glad that David Conn finally echoed the nonsense about the board’s greed.
Last point ……
All you need to do to get past Alex Song is to push the ball to one side and run hard for 10 yards.
A dummy player like Huddlestone was destroying Song continuously in such fashion. And to think Song is our ONLY DM. So there is no wonder, we concede under the first hints of pressure.
Song, another slow, thick, non-dynamic clown, who some fans incredulously call “top-class” because he was roaming around like an idiot in September/October scoring some fluke goals.
Why isnt he scoring any of those fluke goals now?
Hey, at least he is not Denilshit.
@Fred,
Yes i have gone a bit off Song. I would like to see Schweinsteiger come in, and a quick lethal striker. Like what Torres used to be.
Song can go back to 3rd or 4th choice centre half, and back-up defensive midfielder.
I like Diaby as a player, but I think Wenger has taken him as far as he can. A different manager might get more out of him.
Needless to say, I am really happy we have fallen to third place. Chelsea now have a small chance at going for the title. We were NEVER in the title race at any point in time.
It doesnt look possible but I hope we slip to fourth place as well, so we have to play a tricky qualifier in August … and most importantly, so that Wanker can not make any nonsensical arguments about us “improving”. And so that no AKB can come out saying “we are second, so we have improved”.
Infact, I hope we some how slip to fifth place, so that the Wanker and the Board endure maximum pain with the disruption of their cash flow.
What on earth is the point of qualifying for the CL when the greatest tactical innovation your manager can come up with is bringing on Bendtner and Arshavin in EVERY game at 70 minutes, irrespective of what is happening in the game.
Other genius schemes like the “roaming DM” are so idiotic we should not display them in Europe.
PS: Whats up with Chamakh? The guy cant even make the bench these days? His apologists will claim he is still “tired” from his exertions during the September to November period …… but the guy has hardly played in the last four months!!!
He might just be the very first free transfer who is actually a waste!
@Fred, Chamakh is going back to France in the Summer…
He kept us afloat for a bit early, as the only healthy striker.
@Fred, “Infact, I hope we some how slip to fifth place, so that the Wanker and the Board endure maximum pain with the disruption of their cash flow.”
the board’s or Arsenal’s because the board isn’t taking a lot of cash out of the club (yet) which means you want Arsenal to fail/struggle. some support. aren’t you the one who always says the club is bigger than the board/manager/players? wanting the club to suffer financial pain is idiotic.
@jroybower,
Yes, you are correct, I want the Wenger Girls to fail, so they can be dismantled. I want Wenger to have hot, hot fire under his comfy seat, I want him to sweat. And ideally, I want him fired.
The board has NOT invested in Arsenal for over 30 years. They on the other hand profit MAXIMALLY from the club.
It might be shocking to an AKB, but qualifying for the CL with ZERO chance of actually winning it does nothing for me. Especially when qualifying for the CL is used as an excuse by a deranged manager.
Yes, the club is bigger than the manager. That is why the board needs to revamped, the manager fired and the playing personnel upgraded.
Wanting the board to suffer financial pain is less idiotic than the undying devotion of an AKB.
@Fred, “The board has NOT invested in Arsenal for over 30 years. They on the other hand profit MAXIMALLY from the club.”
i call BS. both statements are false, i will grant however, that may be your perception of the situation. please cite specific information that would back your claim.
@jroybower,
Did you not see the links posted on this very thread by Sachin from the Guardian?? The Guardian is not some random tabloid.
@Fred, i did. so let me ask you some questions and based on your answers i’ll know if we can have an intelligent conversation about this or not.
let’s suppose your grandfather bought 100 shares of GE (or insert other stock of your choice) just after WW2. you inherited them years ago and now you feel like selling them because someone offered you what seems a fair price for them.
1) should you give the money you “earned” for selling them to this person back to GE to help them build a factory or hire some more workers?
2) as a holder of the shares of GE do you think you should periodically give or be required to give, out of your pocket, some money to GE to help them buy new machinery or pay for higher worker wages?
3) should GE pay a dividend to you for your investment if they have “excess” cash laying around if they can’t figure out what to do with it?
@jroybower,
Talks of “intelligent conversation” does not come into play from a person who hasn’t yet figured how not to double post his comments ;-)
DING!
Arsenal (and ALL football and sporting clubs) are not wall street corporations for the enrichment of the shareholders. So your defense of their Wall St. way of doing things is ridiculous (AKBian).
None of the Arsenal shareholders have invested a penny in the last 30 years. But they take money out.
Twist yourself in nuts (like a loyal AKB) trying to defend them all you want!
“if they can’t figure out what to do with it” ….
How about invest in the playing personnel perhaps? But am sure to an AKB the team is just great. No need to invest in it. Give the money to the rich shareholders.
PS: Stop hiding your tortured logic deep in an old thread. Come to the top of the newest one oh intelligent one.
@jroybower, clearly i’m technologically challenged. i’ll use stag’s excuse and tell DAG to fix it…
i’ll note that you didn’t actually answer any of the questions i posed. which is what i figured would happen, you always have a tough time answering direct questions. i had very specific reasons for asking those questions. you dismiss them because you feel they are not relevant to the discussion. you couldn’t be more wrong.
on your first point you are flat out wrong. sports is (BIG) business whether you like it or not. your failure to recognize that sports is business naive in the extreme. some owners/shareholders chose to run their business at a loss, that is their perogative. Arsenal is a listed company and is classified as being in the Hotel/Leisure business. keep in mind that if the board, managers, et al do enough stupid things (like not invest in the team, raise ticket prices, don’t win trophies) eventually demand for their product will diminish and their investment will be worth less. it really is economics.
you fail to recognize or consider that the board does invest in the club in ways other than financially. have they done a good job over the last 30 years selecting managers and executives to run the day to day operations of the club? you may not feel that those contributions are sufficient or warrant mention. just because you choose to discount non-financial contributions doesn’t make them any less valuable. perhaps the reason you feel that board members should be contributing financially to the club is because nearly every other club does this. that’s because those clubs are effectively insolvent and require handouts to stay afloat.
just how much money do you think the board takes out of the club? and yes this is a direct question and i want a spefic direct answer.
i’m not trying to “bury” anything in a “old post”. i’m responding to you where you posted it. apologies if that is bad chat/blog etiquette.
finally, i’m still perplexed as to why you associate the AKB moniker with me. some how you assume that because i don’t fall into your bucket that i must be in the “other” bucket, as if there were only two buckets of thought and opnion. i’ve got news for you there are more opinions out there,shades of grey if you will. stop trying to take the playbook of big media telling people that you only have two choices (like in politics). its old and tiring frankly.
@Fred, i did. so let me ask you some questions and based on your answers i’ll know if we can have an intelligent conversation about this or not.
let’s suppose your grandfather bought 100 shares of GE (or insert other stock of your choice) just after WW2. you inherited them years ago and now you feel like selling them because someone offered you what seems a fair price for them.
1) should you give the money you “earned” for selling them to this person back to GE to help them build a factory or hire some more workers?
2) as a holder of the shares of GE do you think you should periodically give or be required to give, out of your pocket, some money to GE to help them buy new machinery or pay for higher worker wages?
3) should GE pay a dividend to you for your investment if they have “excess” cash laying around if they can’t figure out what to do with it?
@Fred, “The board has NOT invested in Arsenal for over 30 years. They on the other hand profit MAXIMALLY from the club.”
i call BS. both statements are false, i will grant however, that may be your perception of the situation. please cite specific information that would back your claim.
Until the bitter end, Arsene Wanker, stuck with his beloved 4-3-3.
Two strikers, when you need a goal? “Hell no!” is the reply from our resident “genius”.
Meanwhile Spurs had no problem playing TWO out and out strikers PLUS van der Vaart PLUS Bale PLUS Modric !!!!
Despite our THREE midfielders, our defense is as leaky as a weave basket, with little to no support from midfield. And ofcourse because we have superfluous personnel in midfield we are undermanned upfront.
And the formation NEVER EVER changes.
Can one (JUST ONE) AKB come out here and please break this madness down for me. Because I dont get it.
What on earth is the point of bringing in Bendtner for Nasri and then having him roam the wings. If Wanker is so inflexible that he will never change formations, then why not bring in say Gibbs (someone who can actually run fast).
We can not get rid of this tactically inept, perverted, adulterous, ego-maniacal French Twat soon enough.
@Fred,
Fred, just for our amusement, why don’t you play the role of AKB, so you can argue with yourself?
The Conn article is a good read – and as the board being evil – I’ve been banging that drum for a while.
But what Conn misses are two things.
1. The 6.5% increase is not on all tickets only those for corporate boxes or whatever they are called there. It is for anyone who’s paying £5200 will now pay about £5700
While there are likely to be other ticket increases – that hasn’t happened yet.
2. The last time I checked the board is in it to make a profit. Self sustaining means that what the club makes sustains the club – there that would imply that no money comes from the ownership. That has been the Arsenal model and it is the model is lauded. I am not sure why there is an issue with that,
Not saying I agree but those were two points that stood out to me.
@DaAdminGooner, i turned on the board about 2 years ago after I read the Alex Fynn and Kevin Whitcher book in which it stated the board’s clear goal to Wenger was to finish 4th. To go from invincibles to 4th is not a goal one would expect but that is what the board wanted. I have echoed this many times and I also maintained if Wenger was failing, then the board were also responsible because Wenger had to answer to them. Yet they kept quiet and distanced themselves by saying that Wenger always had money to spend.
Finally, this season others are rightly pointing the finger at the board especially after their recent profit from a club sale. So what really was the point of the experiment if in the end the club is sold for a nice profit? I understand the health of Danny accelerated things but it looks like the last few years were a sheer waste.
from an outsiders point of view…
that was one of the best … most entertaining matches of the EPL season… it was a great showcase for the league.
from an Arsenal perspective….
yeah. doesn’t surprise ANYONE that we blew another 2-goal lead… to our arch rivals, and we are now in 3RD PLACE.
3rd place is “SUCCESS”? right?
That’s what we’ll be sold, no doubt about it.
And, we were “ENTERTAINING”. So, that in itself is what is important… are we an entertaining team to watch. Today we were, so its all good.
I didn’t expect a win. so, not really dissapointed… as once it was 3-3, I figured we’d cough up the game again.
In regard to the article mentioned below… I don’t want to read about it… I don’t want to know anymore… I have been SURE about it for a number of years… AR$ENAL FC, are ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY. We stopped trying to win titles, and now the PROFIT league is the most important thing. There is nothing you can tell me to change my mind… I’ve seen our best players sold for large profits regularly, and I most definitely believe it will happen again with Cesc this Summer, and who knows, maybe Nasri & RVP… anyone being sold is possible.
ESPN.com just published a list that ranks the top 200 sports team based on the average salary of their players. #1? Barcelona, who pay their players an average of $7.9 million annually. The top 5 is rounded out by Real Madrid, the Yankees, the Lakers, and the Orlando Magic. (No lie on that 5th one.)
The average annual salary of an Arsenal player is $4,758,252 ($91,505 per week). This means they rank 22nd in the world, just behind the Dallas Mavericks, and just ahead of the Chicago White Sox.
Here’s the link to the full list of all 200 teams:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6354899
It lists their average salaries in terms of both years and weeks.
David Conn’s article in the Guardian today questions Arsenal’s so called great model and echoes what many have said previously. The entire article is worthy pasting here but here are just some exercepts:
Over almost 30 years not one director or shareholder of Arsenal has put a penny into the club itself, while they have made vast personal millions for themselves out of selling their Arsenal shares.……
It talks about the personal fortunes made by the directors from Arsenal’s sale and how none of that money will go back in the club, naturally.
None of that money is going back into Arsenal, whether to buy and fund the wages of some senior experienced players Fábregas argues they desperately need – that would be contrary to the “self-sustaining model” – or to keep ticket prices the right side of extortionate. It is all for the custodians to keep.
Arsenal’s self-sustaining model now apparently requires prices to rise again, 6.5%, at the stadium that already has the most expensive tickets in the Premier League – and therefore the world.
@sachin,
Interesting… Do you have a link?
I never thought about it like that before, but if ticket, concession, and merchandise prices must be continually raised for the model to work, then that model can’t really be described as self-sustaining can it? Another bold-faced lie sold by the board to the supporters.
That fact, combined with the fact that no money has apparently been put into the club by any of the shareholders for three decades, makes me think the move to the Emirates was motivated entirely by the prospect of personal financial gain.
The line sold to us was that the increased revenue would allow Arsenal to compete with the biggest clubs in the world. But if no money has really been invested for 30 years, then the increased matchday revenues won’t really be used to make the team competitive on the pitch, will they? The move helped the owners who wished to stay on, b/c it increased their cash flow, and it helped those who wished to sell by increasing the company’s assets, and thus the value of their shares in the company.
But did it help the fans? Apparently not. I’ve never been to London, but my perspective was always that the less lively atmosphere was a necessary evil fans had to endure in order to improve the club’s ability to compete. But if the extra money’s not being used to compete, then we got a raw deal. We endure a worse atmosphere, but get nothing in return.
I salute David Conn for being a supporter of supporters. Back when I used to subscribe to World Soccer, he had an insightful column about how the astronomical price increases in football tickets over the past 20 years have made it nearly impossible for young fans to attend matches. This, he said, was a shameful move on the part of the clubs, since it was young people whose presence on the terraces is what sustained English football financially for practically a century.
@ChicagoGooner, I didn’t post the link because in the past posting a link sent my comment to trash. so will try again:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/apr/20/arsenal-stan-kroenke-board
if you have not read David Conn’s book The Beautiful Game?, I suggest getting a copy. And yes there is ? in the title for a reason.
@ChicagoGooner,
To that last graph, as you probably know, working class yobs have been priced out of regularly attending many (if not all) major league sports these days. The NFL, NBA, and MLB, are just as guilty (hell, we probably pioneered squeezing out the little guy). For young people, or a family of four, a big-time sporting even is a damn expensive day out. I don’t know that it’s anymore shameful in England then anywhere else. A shame, yes.
Meanwhile, the only issue the leagues have is how to divide it up. Has their even been a lockout/player’s strike in modern era English footy? If not, I guess that’s one for them.
_______________________________________________________
As sach has pointed out to me, and I’ve seen from experience, the site seems to treat links like spam and they are deleted. You may want to Google.
@vibe4arsenal, All to true Vibe, all too true. I desperately wanted to go to a Bulls playoff game but the cheapest seats were super-expensive. I’ll pay high prices, but not when the high prices are for seats as far away as those at the oversized United Center are. (They’re behind the basket, and when basketball is played in stadiums also designed for hockey the seats behind the basket are much further from the action than those on the sidelines. It’s like having a track around a football pitch.)
@ChicagoGooner,
It makes sense that they (major league sports) are only interested in catering to a relatively small minority of wealthy paying customers in their arenas and stadiums. It’s all about maximizing revenues. There’s a finite number of seats. Might as well bleed as much out of them as possible, right?
TV is where the really big money is, anyway. As long as the less rich can still afford to put their eyes on the box, who cares that they can’t afford the ‘good’ seats?
That’s show biz.
@ChicagoGooner, ok I tried pasting the link but the comment did not get posted. So just go the guardian football site and you will see it on the main page. Also, if you have not read David Conn’s book The Beautiful Game? I suggest getting a copy. There is a ? in the title for a reason. Things have become worse since Conn wrote the book just a year after Roman came to Chelsea. Since the Conn has used his column to call out club’s bad financial policies. And Arsenal are rightly up there now.
David Conn’s article in the Guardian today questions Arsenal’s so called great model and echoes what many have said previously. The entire article is worthy pasting here but here are just some exercepts:
Over almost 30 years not one director or shareholder of Arsenal has put a penny into the club itself, while they have made vast personal millions for themselves out of selling their Arsenal shares.……
It talks about the personal fortunes made by the directors from Arsenal’s sale and how none of that money will go back in the club, naturally.
None of that money is going back into Arsenal, whether to buy and fund the wages of some senior experienced players Fábregas argues they desperately need – that would be contrary to the “self-sustaining model” – or to keep ticket prices the right side of extortionate. It is all for the custodians to keep.
Arsenal’s self-sustaining model now apparently requires prices to rise again, 6.5%, at the stadium that already has the most expensive tickets in the Premier League – and therefore the world.
1-0 to Real Madrid. The asswipe Cristiano scores in the 103rd minute to give them the Copa del Rey in a final that included 8 yellow cards and one red.
Serious question: is there a coach in the world other than Mourinho who could prevent Barca scoring for 120 minutes? That’s incredible. And if you include the last game, Madrid have now prevented them from scoring a goal in open play for a mind-boggling 210 consecutive minutes. Love him or loathe him, the man is a tactical genius defensively. (Though the merits of his tactics are still open for debate, IMO, as 5 of the 8 yellows and the only red went to his side.)
Oh and for those who predicted we’d finish third… we’re now level on points with Chelsea, who beat Brum 3-1 today.
I’m torn in the race for fourth. Do we cheer against our eternal enemies, or against Money City, a club which should rightfully be despised by every football fan that supports a club other than them?
(In case you all can’t tell from this post, from now on when Arsenal bottle it I am simply going to focus my football interests elsewhere instead.)
On the one hand, we lost another 2 goal lead to Spurs.
On the other hand, it was a very entertaining match to watch.
So…good enough?
Awesome game..
And the false hope proves itself to be just that.
(I doubt that’s the end of it though- surely it will rise one last time before the season is over)
Starting XI: Szczesny, Sagna, Djourou, Koscielny, Clichy Song, Diaby, Walcott, Fabregas, Nasri, Rvp
Subs Lehmann, Ramsey, Squillaci, Wilshere, Arshavin, Gibbs, Nicky Barndoor
[…] Visit Youaremyarsenal.com for more informations and other articles Share this article with your friends: […]
Well, that was fun. I hope I sounded intelligent and not like some rambling fool.
@ DAG.
I think 35 Million for Cesc will be enough.
With him talking now about Wenger’s failed youth folly… and the fact that he is INJURED a LOT… Arsenal FC will try and get as much as they can, and as always CA$H in on our biggest stars.
I have no doubt he’ll be in Barcelona next season…
He doesn’t want to be here, why would we want to force him to stay… makes little sense.
Today.
I think we’ll lose…
I hope we get a draw.
If we win, I’d be thrilled… and I will always watch the match, and hope for the best…
but doing the double over us will be huge for Spurs, and they need the match more than we care about the match.
We have been going thru the motions on the pitch, without passion for over a month now.
I hope “the big game” jump starts our heart again, but I don’t see it mattering to this team… its just another game.
@stag133,
Stag as for today – don’t know that we’ll lose. But everything I agree
DAG,
World Football Daily? Is that a satellite radio show? Is there any way to tune in over the internet? (Or some other way, I don’t have satellite radio?) Thanks.
@highburyterracesteve,
Yes, it’s Sirius (and, I assume, XM).
@vibe4arsenal,
Can you listen to it online? I sometimes read their articles but I don’t think I’ve ever listened to the show. I guess I just assumed they streamed it online.
@ChicagoGooner,
We (subscribers) used to be able to listen for free and now they make us pay, so I doubt there’s a legal way for non-subscribers to listen for free. But a lot of you are more resourceful than I am, when it comes to finding free streams.
@ChicagoGooner,
Yeah unfortunately it is subscriber based. I think they do release the interviews – as individual tracks for free later in the day. I think.
@highburyterracesteve,
Whoa. I stand corrected. I just signed onto Sirius and evidently I haven’t tried to listen at all this season (my car dock was stolen and I used to listen at lunch). I Googled and found a Facebook petition that says it was taken off Sirius/XM last Summer?
SO please disregard the above. I am guessing it’s a podcast now or available somewhere else?
Dag?
@vibe4arsenal,
Ha. I went to their website and this was the first thing I saw. (Sorry, Maz.)
“Hleb needs a reality check, and fast, April 19
Alex Hleb is a man who hasn’t experienced the best of times since leaving Arsenal. After failing miserably to break into the Barcelona first team on a regular basis, he was shipped out on loan to one of the Premier League’s less successful sides where, humiliatingly, he failed to make even the slightest impact.
With Hleb’s attitude and fitness coming under fire from the Birmingham… “
Wow! You’re going to be on World Football Daily? That’s pretty cool. I’m not a regular but I’ll be sure to tune in today if I can. Good luck on there!
Even when Arsenal are consistent (when any team is playing consistently, no matter how dominant they may be) derby matches are pretty much a free-for-all. Throw in the fact that we have been notoriously inconsistent for three straight years now, Spurs are on a poor run of form, and that neither manager is what you’d call a tactical genius….. and who the hell knows what will happen? Nothing will surprise me today. Absolutely nothing. Arsenal could be down 3-0 at the half, come back to be up 6-3, then still lose 6-7 and I wouldn’t be surprised. Aliens could come and abduct all the players and blow up the stadium. Nothing about this Arsenal season will surprise me anymore. I no longer have expectations and I’ve been totally desensitized to the emotional roller coaster ride which normally characterizes the life of a sports fan.
@ChicagoGooner,
Yeah it is pretty cool. The amount of excitment and nerves is keeping my heart rate up.
LOL. It is so easy to write this stuff.
And Chi – I am from Philly – I was desensitized to the emtional roller coaster of sports through 25+ years of nothing. 6 years with Arsenal is a walk in the park.