EPL Match Day 7: Arsenal v Chelsea
Will the real Arsenal please show up?
I will watch. I will cheer. I will scream and do all the other things that fans of a team do when their team is playing. Sure, I care if they win or lose. I take losses very painfully. I won’t chat about my team, I won’t read about my team I just avoid it for a good 24 hours after the loss. I don’t like it when my team is criticized – it just goes with the territory of being a fan I guess. I wear my red and white very proudly. But I am also a pragmatist, and I will admit I don’t see things going well.
Well, this is one of those times. I don’t think Chelsea are unbeatable. I don’t think any team has to be afraid of them. Unlike some of the readers here I don’t go aw limp in the wrist and jiggle at the threat that is Chelsea. They have a weakness it can be exploited – it’s just a matter of exploiting it.
Chelsea are a good team, of that there is no doubt. Drogba has been feasting on Arsenal goalies, skinning them for 12 goals. It’s funny about him, because he not only admits an affinty for playing against Arsenal but he has also been highliy praiseworthy of what Arsenal are about – if only he could show his appreciation in another way. Under Ancelotti, the entire team has prospered and until he matches Mourhino’s feats he will still live in his shawdow. But has started them very well this year.
But let’s be real – they feasted on minnows as they should. When they played against a talented side like City, they were anemic. Even when a determined Blackpool decided to show up in the 2nd half of their match they had issues. Marseille were quite unlucky to not snatch a point at the very least from their CL tie. When faced with real competition – they are showing their weakness.
So you ask what is that weakness. It is the defencive middle pairing of Alex and Terry. They are good. But they are slow. In Ancelotti’s 4-3-3 system Ashley Cole is coming way more forward than he has in the past. This is leaving the slower Terry and Alex exposed. If you can get someone with speed beyond Cole and attacking the middle on a consistent basis, their central tandem can be beaten. Terry was skinned last week by Tevez. If not for some good support and some better play by Tevez, Terry could’ve been culprit to more goals. Of course you need speed to take advantage of this. Cole is quick and can get back in a hurry. Unfortunately for us, our biggest speedster is in the physio room.
Additionally, there is one other weakness that Chelsea have that may come into play this week – goalkeeper. Petr Cech is one of the best keepers in the league but he has shown season after season, a difficulty in handling crosses and set pieces. For the first time in a while, I can think of Arsenal having a player that can take advantage of that. You know of who I speak of – Marouane Chamakh. Marouane has scored more goals with his head this season than anyone else. He has scored 9 headed goals in the CL alone. If I am Wenger I am running Sagna down the side and crossing into Chamakh at every possible chance I get.
This is a tough outting even when healthy. Chelsea have gotten the better of us lately. But I remind everyone it was only two season ago that we came to the bridge – wounded (as usual) and came away with a 2-1 win. Sure we have lost 4 in a row (3 league and 1 cup) but we have gone to the den and won. But the fact is, we come into Stamford Bridge limping. Okay maybe crawling is the better word. Some of our best threats cannot even play. Our best defender still hasn’t played beyond the first international break. Our center piece midfielder was racing to get back but looks to be short for the match. And our biggest speed threat is gone.
So again, we come into a Chelsea match without all our available options. It’s not an excuse though. There is still talent on the team. I believe even though the West Brom game was woeful, that Squillaci and Koscielny are better than that match. They will definitely have to be. Song is going to have to remember his place and stay home. We need him to shut down Malouda or Drogba like he did Messi in the first leg of the CL last season. If he tries to play an attacking midfielder and lets loose with his errant passes he hurts us on his own. Jack Wilshere was made for this match. He is every bit an Arsenal player with his ability but he also has bit of that bulldog edge. I think he will absolutely understand the stage he is coming on and I think he could be the great hope in this match.
Some of our other players need to show they can also step up. Clichy needs to be Clichy from two years ago when he was second to only Cole in who is the best Left Back in the league. Sagna needs to show why he is widely considered the best RB in the EPL. Andrei Arshavin and Nasri need to live up to their potential as well. I would really like Arshavin to get on board and use his speed to get around Ivanovic and skin Terry. But most of all, above any other player, if Fabianksi wants everyone to forgive all his faults he simply must play the game of his life. This is it – weak goals given and I do not doubt he will never see another start again in even the Emirates Cup. It’s an awful big ask from a player who is good for at least one howler a match.
How The Match Should Play Out:
I dunno. Like I said I believe Chelsea have a couple of exploitable weaknesses and we have the players to do it. It just remains to be seen whether Arsene has picked up on those weaknesses and will do anything about it. Chelsea away, was always going to be rough. The task remains harder on us with all the injuries. We can play ticky tacky passing all day long but the Chavs have shown a propensity for being patient against us, only to kill us on the counter. This could very well be the case on Sunday.
Players to Watch:
Arsenal: Never before have so many hoped for so few but Arsenal fans, whether they hate him or love him, are praying that Lukasz Fabianksi suddenly turns into David Seaman (at least for one match) and turns away the blue tide. Do that and the it is Manuel Almunia who never sees the light of day again. Don’t and well –
Chelsea: I hate this guy. I really do. But I have to acknowledge when someone is so damn good you only hate because he doesn’t play for your team. Didier Drogba is the best striker in the EPL. He is strong, quick and that goddamn free kick is so good. He has feasted on Arsenal, a team he almost signed for (why why why didn’t he.) He gets another chance to try and do it.
Probable Starting XI:
Arsenal: Almunia (elbow) Fabregas (thigh) Vermaelen (achilles) Gibbs (calf) Walcott (ankle) Van Persie (ankle) Ramsey (ankle) Bendtner (groin) Frimpong (knee)
Last Meeting (EPL):
Arsenal: 0
Chelsea: 2
Last 5:
Arsenal: WWWDL
Chelsea: WWWWL
Leading Scorers:
Arsenal: Arshavin 5 (2 League)
Chelsea: 7 (2 league); Malouda: 6 (6 league)
Match Officials:
Referee: Mike Dean
Assistant Referees: Simon Beck & Glenn Turner
Fourth Official: Lee Probert
Broadcast Information:
US: FSC 11:00AM EST
UK: Sky Sports 2 1600 BST
Feeds:
www.atdhe.net
GAMEDAY CHAT: It’s Open!!!!!! www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
YAMA Prediction:
Arsenal: 1
Chelsea: 3
[donate]
253 comments
Leave a reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
I personally don’t do GDC … because when I am watching the match, I am WATCHING THE MATCH!
Sometimes with a few Gooner or football friends at a pub, or if I am at home, I would sometimes comment at the half…
If you’d like to see why i haven’t been posting – I have a little sneak peak for you:
http://www.youaremyarsenal.com/GunnersBar
Its not complete. But it is the next logical extension of our ongoing conversations.
Looks pretty sweet. But with the existence of these forums (which are logically the place for all general Arsenal talk) and GDC (the place for in-game chat), then what kind of talk will still be on the blog? Will it only be for responses that have to deal directly with the original articles? Or will the forums replace the blog entirely?
I figured the chat would likely carry on in both places.
The blog articles will still be posted here and some of them won’t even make it to the forums.
I figured the forums would be a better place for these long lengthy discussions – especially when I have writer’s block and take a week to churn out another piece.
None of the new components are meant to replace the other. People can particpate where they will.
I though GDC would take some of the commenting off but it hasn’t. So I am not afraid of any canibalization. Plus the forums may entice some lurkers to particpate more.
Cool beans DAG, now we can insult each other in real time :) ;) :)
My regular password is not accepted. Do you have to create a new profile for this?
Nip, you will have to create a new profile in the forums.
I am not that skilled of a programmer to link the two together.
Saw this link via Tim’s blog: http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/09/cash-city-rockers.html
Quite a detailed listing of the financial situation and not sure how much it would overlap with what nipuna posted above. I think others have pointed out here previously that Arsenal fans are probably the only ones who would have such a detailed debate about their club’s financials. After listing everything, the article still ends with Have you heard the one about the football club that made over £60 million profits, but couldn’t afford a decent goalkeeper?
Even this article mentions there was a dip in profits last season due to fewer games because the club was knocked out earlier in the cups. I think someone else had also indicated that before.
I think the Arsenal board would be very happy if Arsenal reached the Carling Cup, F.A Cup and CL finals but they would not be sad if the club lost all 3 finals. For them, each move ahead in a domestic cup competition represents more gate money (provided the club gets another home game). I don’t they actually care if the club wins the trophy or not.
The horse has long been dead. I don’t want to beat up on the poor bones of the decayed horse but if the club is worried about profits, I wish they pursue these avenues more:
1) Increasing commercial profits — Even the superclub book mentioned this that Arsenal didn’t get as much as they could have from the stadium naming rights and shirt deals. The club wanted something quick in place and they took an average offer.
2) Tie in wage increases with performances on the pitch — this will allow players to stop cruising around as if they are the best player on the planet and force them to work hard. The current trend of paying high salaries to underperforming players is costing the club some profit. Yes, there is the downside that some players would be tempted to leave if they were not paid enough but if the player is good enough, they should be paid accordingly.
3) Rectify injury situation — everytime a player spends time out injured, they club does not get a proper return on its investment. There are some players who spend way too much time being injured. Either get the player healed by covering them up in the placenta of the dead horse’s cousin or get them sold or loaned out. Having talented players means nothing if the talented players are always injured. Sure shirt sales would happen during their injuries but as noted above the club stands to make more profit if the team progresses further in competitions.
Also, these words in the article highlight the club’s need for seeking profits from player sales:
Worryingly, the accounts note, “There has been very limited player sale activity during the summer transfer window. As a result, in contrast to each of the previous three years, we do not have a significant profit on disposal of player registrations on the books at this stage of the new financial year. Subject to any transfer activity in the January 2011 window this may impact the final level of profits to be reported for the financial year 2010/11.” Let’s hope that this does not herald the profitable sale of Cesc Fabregas to Barcelona in a few months.
If Cesc is sold, then I am sure he won’t be missed as the club has an adequate replacement in Eboue :)
Sounds crazy. Welcome to Arsène’s world.
there should have been a ? after Sounds Crazy.
Sach, the lack of ? doesn’t seem out of place.
I skimmed through the article (it’s long!), but, I wonder if maybe we already missed the boat in selling Cesc (from a strictly financial standpoint)….Certainly I’m very happy we didn’t, but in these first two months of the season we haven’t gotten a lot of “return on our investment”….Hopefully he stays healthy and shows what he can do….
Obviously, as fans, we’re concerned about results on the pitch and, at best, take a little comfort in our long-term prospects when we hear about record profits, etc. We should however, also take solace in the “value” of our players. Frankly, however, I’m worried that our highest profile (and some of our best) players, RVP, Cesc, Bendtner & Walcott are losing value, both on the pitch AND in the transfer market, due to their crockedness (spell check indicates that I may be making this word up….)
Add to that “maturing” players who have spent large chunks of their (shorter and longer) careers out injured (Ramsey, Gibbs, Rosicky, Diaby, TV5) while we pay their salaries. And then there are others who present question marks about their fitness or whether or not they can actually “come good” or play at the level to which they are paid (your point #2), and the total “value” of our players (salaries and potential transfer fees) may be co-incident with the gloomier predictions of where we’ll finish in the table.
I think we’ll do better than that, partly because there is decent depth to the squad and because the management is extremely disciplined from a financial perspective….(Those were good deals we made with Man City the Summer before last!) And like Tim points out on his blog today (about the Red Sox ownership group buying Liverpool) our financial strategy trumps sentiment. A good example might be Dudu, who, for sentimental reasons might’ve been nice to keep. We were pretty fortunate to “break even” (more or less) on Eduardo’s transfer fee. And while I personally don’t begrudge paying his salary while he was out hurt, it’s money the bean counters have to put in the debits column….
Ah Steve you are not the only one who wonders about missing the financial boat of selling Cesc. I had mentioned a few months ago that I think Cesc will go to Barca for almost less than what they offered this summer. Maybe for 17-18 million next summer. Ofcourse, that will be seen as a moral victory for Wenger and when Cesc does return, he will certainly help in nailing that 3rd place finish that Wenger and the board desire — ok the board desire one place less than 3rd but I am tired of aiming so low :)
The article does show that over his tenure Wenger has made a 2 million net profit over all the buys and sales but I am bothered by the fact that no one has put down a dollar figure to the negative equity (incorrect usage) accumulated by having players such as Bischoff, Silvestre, Cygan, Almunia and Fabianski on the books. Often people just point to the high profile buys such as Jeffers and Reyes as transfers not working out but I think Wenger should be held accountable for the money he has bled by keeping weak players on the roaster. I make this point because I am certain the money the club could have saved by getting rid of such players would have been more than 2-3 million, enough of a difference to buy a new goal-keeper. Yes the club has enough money as it is but if Ivan and Wenger want fans to play the game that they don’t want to spend, I want to play the game of asking why they continue to waste money on unsuited players thereby preventing bringing in more competent players.
Even if he had all the money in the world, Wenger is never the kind of manager to do what Magath did at Schalke where he sold 14 players and brought in 15 (not sure about the numbers). And no one is expecting him to do that either. Most fans have used 2-3 or even 3-4 as a number to make the necessary corrections. Instead Wenger has succesfully used the financial balance sheet to justify his mistakes. Buying Freddie never broke the bank but wenger simply stopped finding bargains the way he used to. Instead, he has heavily dipped into the French league for his very limited buys.
Ofcourse, the more I repeat this I sound crazier than the people running the show :)
Hmmm…Nobody else posting today…..Bank Holiday or something?
In the end it all comes down to player valuation, that being the cost of the transfer fee (in our case, often zero) and the total salary paid out over time vs the contribution made on the pitch (exceedingly hard to quantify).
And the justification is that once a financially strong club (Arsenal) is in for a player the price goes up….And thus signings should be a last resort….only used to plug obvious holes….like fingers in the dike….
I would tend to cut our management a bit more slack. There will always be dead weight at a club, whether it’s due to injury or just poor performance. And contracts are ALWAYS written based on our expectation of future performance, with past ones not being a guarantee….If (like the Barcas, Madrids, Milans, Chelseas and ManCities) we try to buy players at their absolute peak, we will quite regularly lay out huge amounts in transfers and salaries (see for example, Barca and Ibrahimovic), which is fine if you’ve got a Sugar-Daddy or you can just plow your losses into the national debt….By comparison, the salaries of your Bischoffs, Silvestres, Flappies, etc. aren’t that much. It gets worse when you consider the salaries of players like RVP and Cesc and Theo and Bendy, who sit watching, and the fees they might have generated had we offed them at the correct moment….
Yes, just a rehash of all the same tired arguments, but it’s helpful to remember that there’s plenty of guesswork to that player valuation thing….and that hindsight is always 20/20….
If, however, there’s anything interesting to be gleaned, it might be the relative abandonment of the much vaunted youth policy over the past several windows. There have been zero big money youths bought since Ramsey and the Galindos and Wellingtons are hardly announced any longer (or so it seems to me) and the buys have been older and (touch wood) more durable lately (Chamakh, LK6, Squillaci, Arshavin). Whether this is due to frustration or impatience on the part of management or pressure from the supporters is anyone’s guess….
Everybody has given up. :)
They are tired of scrolling. I have to write something new.
Some great quotes this morning from the Italian U-21 camp with Macheda calling Rooney a Chav and Mannone mocking the keepers ahead of him…http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/07/wayne-rooney-chav-federico-macheda
Regarding Josh’s comments about players thinking and letting the momentum of the play continue, etc….
Clearly AW wants this sort of thing from his players as well and he’s been giving the green light to our (ostensible) holding MFs to pursue plays way up the pitch. And so far, I don’t think we’ve really been punished by this sort of thing. Really, IMO, our latest run of bad results are mostly down to the injuries and us bottling our offensive chances (Rosicky Pen vs Sunderland, Nasri with a few vs WBA) and keepers outplaying us (Carson vs Mooney in the WBA match). Mix that in with some small lapses in concentration (lack of professionalism?) and things can go South in a hurry. There’s also been a distinct lack of production (and team play) in these matches from our “best” available attacker (an unfit, little Russian fellow….)
The disappointing results show that thinking and concentration, along with fitness and effort, are extremely important and may be the difference between taking 1 out of 9 points or maybe doing much better. Unfortunately, moving forward, while looking at the squad, I don’t see a tremendous amount of light at the end of the tunnel.
When we discuss our frustrations with Clichy, it’s not so much that he needs to be instructed to get to the by-line and send crosses in, it’s that we’ve been watching him for years now and, on a routine basis, he just doesn’t make good decisions, nor figure out how best to work with the players near him.
I think Song and Diaby are a step ahead of Clichy in this regard and they’ve clearly worked hard and improved their physical strength and their ball skills. Still, I don’t see them (yet) able to integrate the great field sense that Cesc brings to the game, so if they choose to ramble forward from a DM position, it’s naturally very worrying; unlike our (injured, want-away) captain, they aren’t instinctively aware of how to keep things safe at the back. Ramsey, I think, was doing pretty well before his injury and Wilshere looks very, very promising in this regard. Of course, being able to look up, scan the pitch and play accurate lofted passes, would help A TON. In a similar vein, (but back to the FB position) Sagna, I think, has improved his crossing and interplay with his mates on the right, while still, almost always, being in the right spot defensively.
My point is that we need players who can play instinctively AND intelligently AND have the bottle to take their opportunities (which doesn’t bode well for Rosicky as a stand in for Cesc). And it seems very difficult to do this at very young ages and amidst so much turnover in the team, originally due to an aggressive youth policy but now more likely caused by our excessive injuries. Ideally, younger players would get eased into the team (as “passengers”….) and only play in situations free from massive pressure. Arsenal over the past several seasons has not provided such luxuries and few players have really stepped up. So, while the depth seems good, I wonder where the leaders will come from, and how we’re going to “get over the hump”….
Hopefully this next stretch will see players coming back (or staying fit) and some good confidence building results…..Still, even with my reading glasses on, I can’t find the emoticon for “not holding my breath”….
This is really funny.
http://www.sport.co.uk/news/Football/44790/Werder_Bremen_chief_critical_of_remarkably_slow_Silvestre_.aspx
Bremen chief says that Syl is slow.
Maybe they consulted Arsene before signing him instead of actually seeing a few match videos. :)
LOL!!
A club that calls a spade a spade … fast and direct.
The director didnt just say he is slow … he also called him error prone!
Such accuracy in pinpointing weakness!
Wenger FC is one of the only clubs that doesnt call out its whacky players.
Very interesting article with some key observations
http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=1899
“Gate and Commercial revenues fell by £10.3m, due to early exit from the domestic cups. Does it mean that manager has received a signal and will try to win the Carling Cup this time?”
“Arsenal has nearly £55m “other operating charges” aside from transfers, wages and property costs (p.38). And nobody knows what these charges are.”
“So the club was not “financially constrained” after moving to new stadium, they have just spent the money badly (mainly on increased wage payments to players who have failed to match their lesser-paid predecessors).”
“Arsenal spent on football (wages plus net players registration) £92.5m.
It is almost £30m less than the previous year. (p.14)
Therefore the group profit growth is based on a reduction in football investment.
Otherwise the group profit would be around £26m. 40% less than the previous year.”
Fred, when coaching, I have one blanket caveat and anyone who’s played for me knows this verbatim. That is that the tactical situation and momentum of play will determine freedom of maneuver and may trump all techniques. Like a broken record, I say it at damn near every training session. I’ve never coached little kids so my players get it.
This is to un-teach restrictions imposed by previous coaches as well as encourage players to think. Getting players to think is the most difficult craft to teach but when players are good thinkers, it’s easier for them to make good decisions and justify their actions on the pitch. If I’ve got two strikers and four midfielders attacking, do I really need a fullback going to the endline? It depends. The tactical situation and momentum of play will, essentially, dictate that fullback’s actions.
Understand, I don’t forbid FB’s getting further forward. However, they need to understand that they’re defenders first. The 25 meter line is a safety net. If a FB is further forward than the safety net and one of their team mates loses the ball in bad space, that FB can’t get back; I don’t give a shit how fast he is. It’s especially worse if the opponents have a descent counter and fast players. I only like to see the momentum of play take FB’s that far forward and in many games it will but not often. As far as overlapping goes, strikers and midfielders can do that.
With that, in my last game coaching in Germany, my RB scored the only goal against a youth team from Amsterdam called Playground.
I understand what you are saying, but a FB standing on the 25 yard line is STILL completely useless.
Offensively, he is not stretching the oppositions defensive line and creating space for the midfielders (the FB can only do that by making a run) and he is still TOO FAR from the defense anyway.
Either way Clichy has been starting since 06 and has been an offensive wasteland for the last three.
Josh, that is interesting and nice … in what you believe in a tactical sense, and in regard to how YOUR players play, but it is not really relevant to a PREMIER LEAGUE TEAM, or Arsenal!
I’ve coached Track & Field for 10+ years, but it is not relevant when discussing Olympic athletes!
He’s also contradicted himself, specifically saying he coached little kids, and thus could identify with how Wenger felt about criticism (because he got an earful from kid’s parents).
By the way, if the Liverpool takeover happens and the new owners wipe off the debut, just like that Pool are back in business?
I mean, what happened to all the financial regulations, how do we benefit from being prudent for so long?
if the debt is gone, why would the new owners be punished for what happened previously?
also, these new owners are shrewd business people…
they took an old ballpark in Boston, and have re-made it, and squeezed every bit of money out of the Fenway Park they can, adding seats, and revenue every off season…
they’ll probably do much the same for Anfield and Liverpool…
AND… I’d bet anything it means LIVERPOOL FC will be playing matches in the Summer at FENWAY PARK… hopefully versus ARSENAL… maybe in 2012?!
:)
Here’s hoping.
I’d go see Liverpool in Boston anyway… the chance to see Prem. teams in the US is nice.
Football is contextual, a cup result may have isolated significance but a league result is better seen in the context of the ultimate objective – momentum and the accumulation of points.
Chelsea needs to be seen in the light of Sunderland and WBA. If we’d accumulated the 5 lost points from the fooder teams the significance of the Chelsea result is relegated more to disrupted momentum and pride. Yet we didn’t get those 5 points so the Chelsea result becomes an unwanted confirmation of our recurring inadequacy.
Everything else is verbage.
WINNING and GETTING RESULTS is the ONLY THING.
Everything else is non-sense!
Playing nice and pretty and with style, is IRRELEVANT in the grand scheme.
If you can win “with style”, like the Invincibles, everyone loves you.
I had mates who support Liverpool, Chelsea, United… you name it… and they ALL ADMITTED, Arsenal are GREAT TO WATCH.
But… THEY WON.
That’s the important part of this equation.
Now, we still play pretty at times, we just aren’t successful… and are a laughing stock to people.
of COURSE Drogba loves playing us…
think anyone liked playing the Invincibles?
The difference between Chelsea and Arsenal
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/10/06/2153521/abou-diaby-i-turned-down-chelsea-to-sign-for-arsenal
“I even had a chat with Jose Mourinho. He was very frank and told me: ‘I have a big team, with big players and I can’t guarantee you anything, but we do want you’.
“Meanwhile, Arsene Wenger told me that he was looking for a midfielder to replace Vieira, that I had the same profile and that I would play.
All this shows is that Wenger had an idea of where he wanted Diaby to play.
I think someone has edited this interview and removed the following comments:
Jose to Diaby “, we do want you. But if you make a mistake during a game, I will jump up and down the sidelines and shout at you until you cry. I will then bench you until you realize your mistake and train hard to become the great player that you can be.”
Wenger to Diaby:
“If you make a mistake, I will understand and forgive you. I will give you 5 years to learn and nurture your talent. At the end of the 5 years, if you have still not learned much, I will try to give you another 2 years.”
:)
Wenger:
“Hello Abou, take a seat. I want to talk to you about a thing called mental strength……”
Good stuff, both of you.
You forgot to mention the part about wages increasing regularly at 2 year intervals. ;)
And those increases will be regardless of performance on the pitch :)
hahahahahahahaha.
“a midfielder to replace Vieira”!!!
and he was talking to Diaby!
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
FIRE HIM NOW!!!!! :laugh:
On Clichy:
Agree he needs to get to the byline more. I distinctly remember Cole and Lauren doing that for us. And like Mazza points out, often times, just the distraction of a run can open up space for another. Some of this comes back to Song (or whoever is DM these days). With leaving their space, the best way I think to counter a counter attack (assuming it is too quick for the DM to cover the space to get into the FBs spot) would be to have a DM that can slot into CB while the CB takes over the full back position. This would of course require that the DM be relatively close to the CBs to start with.
I’ve also seen a variation whereby the whole defence moves over (I think it was an old clip of Roy Hodgson explaining this… could be wrong though). So that if an attack is developing through our left wing, the RB stays back so that if a counter develops down the empty space, the defence can move across, with the RB slotting into the CB spot.
I dunno… Maybe I’m talking out my ass right now. But I do feel that Clichy should be getting properly forward a bit more.
All that said, I think he is sometimes over criticized here. I don’t think he did too much wrong in the Sunderland game. For all those pointing at 1 or 2 crosses by Elmohammady that game, the Egyptian put in 14 crosses the game against Utd. More crosses than any other player in any of the league games last weekend. He’s a good player and we should sometimes stop at giving credit to the opposition rather than going out of our way to blame one of ours.
Some interesting stats from http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8750_6427542,00.html
* Arsenal have had more shots than Chelsea this season but have scored 16 goals to Chelsea’s 23.
* Jack Wilshere passed the ball more than any other player on the pitch at Stamford Bridge v Chelsea. But he did not have a single shot.
* Only Kevin Davies and Andy Carroll have conceded more fouls than Alex Song this season.
I was giving the team the benefit of the doubt after the Sunderland game… but for all those who say that the Chelsea game was “very close” other than two fluke goals, you must also admit that we would’ve lost at the Stadium of Light were it not for Cesc’s fluke goal, which was far flukier than anything Chelsea scored.
that’s a good point, but you aren’t supposed to say that.
and then there’s Cesc who got injured when a ball is kicked off his foot?!?!!
and is out for weeks!
That’s not how he got injured! Unless he moved his hamstring into his shin somehow…
That IS HOW HE GOT INJURED.
did you not see him grab his leg after that? limp a bit
to the center of the pitch?
watch the replay and the aftermath.
the boy wonder… is FRAGILE.
I fail to see how a ball bouncing off someones foot causes a hamstring injury. If he did get injured in that play then the only plausible explanation I can think of is he did his hammy when trying to close down Ferdinand.
I’d say the match should have been 0-0. Our fluke goal and their gift of extra time or our unlucky clearance.
Sunderland do not have a bad team and on that day deserved the point.
A lot of people are saying that Chelesa scored two magnificent goals and otherwise, it was close. Really?
Firstly, Drogba’s goal might have had a touch of flukiness to it, but what was wrong with Alex’s goal? RvP has scored some thunderbolts like that in the past and we never claimed it was a fluke or that it happens once in a lifetime, did we?
Secondly, if you take apart the goals, I think the chances were pretty equal. If Kos missed a sitter, Anelka missed an even easier sitter. If Makh was close on a header, then Essien had an easier chance in the first half. If Nasri went close, then Cole’s goal which was disallowed for offside was also a close call.
I can agree that we didn’t get overpowered, but I think it is wrong to say that apart from their goals, we dominated or that we would have won if we put away our chances.
Nip. of course you are correct.
Chelsea could care less if we have possession or play well.
They KNOW they will finish their chances, and we WILL NOT.
They will get 3 points, and we will get SHUT OUT.
And next time, we’ll play the exact same way.
They did score 2 magnificent goals. I don’t think either were fluke. But we were defensively naive on both. We need to learn not to switch off for a second! Nasri letting Cole go for the first, messing up the pass in the second, and our wall letting Malouda create a gap for the free kick.
We cut out such silly moments (which basically would be part of revamping our whole style defensively), then I think we can almost compete with Chelsea.
I wouldn’t call Alex’s goal flukey. It was more like a wonder-strike. He has a cannon of a shot and there was absolutely nothing Flappy could do with it. It was a perfect shot.
When Real Madrid assembled the team of galacticos (Zidanes and Pavons), we poked fun at them because they tried to outscore the opposition and win games. Result? They won one league and one CL in about 6 years.
And here we are saying that Arsenal can win stuff by outscoring the opposition. And we don’t even have anyone close to being a Zidane.
Almost always the team with the best or second best defence wins the league. Even Barca had the best defence in both of the previous seasons. You simply cannot ignore the defensive side of the game.
sure you can.
we have folks on here who wouldn’t change a THING…
they would prefer we abandon defense, and play our current style, even if we never win another trophy!
its a fact in ANY sport since time began, you can’t win without good defense.
Air Coryell and the SD Chargers comes to mind. Never Won SHIT.
But The Baltimore Ravens won a Super Bowl with NO OFFENSE, and GREAT DEFENSE.
GREECE won the Europoean Championship with DEFENSE and no offense.
But don’t change a thing… its better to play a pretty style and get your ass handed to you regularly by good teams!
“we have folks on here who wouldn’t change a THING…”
Speaking for myself, since the start of YAMA…….majority that post have been in agreement for the need in upgrading:
goal keeper, center backs, additional DM, and realistic depth up front.
So who are the folks who wouldn’t change a thing?
I am in agreement with you Stag that defense does win Championships, in every sport; and until Arsene realizes this, the club is likely not to win EPL & CL.
How else can you interpret this type of commentary???
“I agree that if this team played a different style they might be more successful but I wouldn’t change our style for anything i really hope when AW leaves we can get someone who will follow in our philosophy”
SO, WE MIGHT BE MORE SUCCESSFUL WITH A DIFFERENT STYLE, BUT WE DON’T WANT SUCCESS, WE WANT TO KEEP PLAYING THE SAME WAY, REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME, BECAUSE ITS PRETTY TO WATCH?
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=830187&sec=england&cc=3436
So the c*nt admits that his challenge was horrible and apologises to everybody other than the victim he tried to maim. Class.. And, to top it off, he misses games against Chelsea and Utd so that he can’t demonstrate to purple nose, granny shagger and fat frank what his game is all about which means the media will continue to condone it.
Outstanding.
If memory serves me correctly, Henry was sent off in a game last year against Arsenal for a bad challenge and criticized Arsenal players for over-reacting to his approach. I think we had just lost Ramsey. What’s changed? He broke Zamora’s leg and now this. The guy’s a douche bag.
Yea I remember that interview. He’s a piece of work! But at least with some of the media coverage the refs have something to go with when he steps onto the pitch.
Lets look back at the Invincibles.
If Bergkamp, Henry, Pires, Campbell,and Lehman were unable to play, and the team lost 2-0 to ManU; what would dictate most of the commentary?
Good point. But, how often did that happen to the invincibles? Something has changed (something beyond luck) where we are getting injured more than we used to (or more than anyone else does). If we do not find out what and change it back then we have to adjust to it and not use injuries as an excuse because then we would end up forever blaming injuries.
If this was a one off, most people would happily chalk it off as an injury crisis caused loss, but it has been happening for many seasons running…
They were top quality players though.
Apart from Fabregas, the difference between our first teamers and reserves now is neglible in alot of cases.
like Mazza said.
we have NO PLAYERS in the class of Bergkamp and Henry up front. NONE.
Pires on the wing?
NONE. Nobody in that class.
Campbell and Lehmann.
Hahahahahahahahaha.
NOT CLOSE TO ANYONE IN THAT CLASS at the back.
Cesc is a very good player. He’s the only one close to that level, and frankly, he is injured SO OFTEN, he’s not worth the bother any more.
If we can get good money in January for him from Barca, just get it done.
He will be injured more than he’ll play for Arsenal, and has NO REASON to come back in a hurry, because he didn’t want to be here anyway, he was FORCED to stay by Wenger.
This comparison with the Invincibles is RIDICULOUS.
But I can guarantee that if they were out, we had back-ups with EXPERIENCE, and that counts in big matches.
There was no intention to compare this year’s squad with the Invincibles.
Ozi does bring up a good point as how often our key players (collectively) seem to be out at the same time.
My point was that if the Invincibles were missing their 5 key players, how well would they compete and wouldn’t the commentary focus on the absence of key players – certainly missing after the Chelsea match from media hacks.
“But I can guarantee that if they were out, we had back-ups with EXPERIENCE, and that counts in big matches.”
Yes, back up with experience does count, which is an obvious weakness for Arsenal at the moment – but a work in progress.
I see no point in dissecting your ‘guarantee’ for the back-ups having the same experience.
Hoping to get a word in edgewise here in an otherwise interesting debate. Given our current (healthy) squad I see a huge problem down our left side far outweighing Song’s silly rambles forward (And Wilshere too…he goes for the aggressive 1-2 A LOT…..). If Arshavin can’t be arsed defensively and Clichy is an offensive wasteland and positionally challenged on D, I see tons of trouble through that channel. At least in the middle and right sides players are TRYING their best and seem capable of learning from their mistakes. (Except, of course, Eboue when he gets in, but we need him for giggles, I guess…..)
And then there is the problem at the very back with the silent one (Flappy) at least showing more of his “practice form” and good reactions. (It was at least a nice “Hollywood” dive he made on Alex’s FK….) Will Almunia’s elbow morph into a chest cold?….i.e., is Flappy our new #1, because we can’t afford our keeper costing us too many points between here and the new year?….
Someone explain to my how Clichy had a nightmare match v. Chelsea.
Yes, he took 2 shots that were off the mark. Yes, in the first few minutes, he slipped marking Anelka – leading to nothing.
I don’t recall any Chelsea player making any serious runs down the right flank NOR making crosses that created troubles for our defense.
I did see Clichy take the ball to the end line once and a second time get within 10 yds of the end line when he crossed.
Okay his final ball is not sensational, but I can’t see him deserved of all this constant criticism. I can confirm that during a match he is excellent at denying his man the ball, intercepting passes, and will make countless runs down the flank & he can dribble with speed, and is comfortable with the ball with no space and time; good marks for his movement without the ball & combination play.
WHAT I SEE AS THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE PLAYER IN FRONT OF CLICHY, TECHNICALLY CHALLENGED IN COMBINATION PLAY (Arshavin or Vela).
I will add this one point. Hleb was dynamic in combination play and had a high IQ without
the ball. In 07/08, the teams chemistry ‘moving the ball’ from the back line to the front was mesmerizing. Flamini, Sagna, Clichy, Cesc, Hleb, and Rosicky were a machine.
Steve said Clichy was an “offensive wasteland”, and that’s 100% true.
People get fooled by the frequency of his litte jaunts into the opposition’s half and think he’s some sort of dynamo, but the reality is he totally kills any penetrative abilities by being totally incapable of making runs beyond the opposition’s defence (Like Cashley for their goal). He makes a run forward, then CLAMPS himself to the touchline 25 yards from goal and just stays there, gives the ball to Arshavin and still stays there giving Arshavin absolutely no overlap option at all around the byline area. Arshavin then has no real decoy so the opposition can read his shots as they know that’s all he can do.
Arshavin’s play improves considerably when Kieran Gibbs(who has no such inhibitions) routinely gives both a direct and decoy option in the final fourth of the pitch.
Agree on Hleb. But as I said at the time, he was a freak of nature when it came to serving others and catering his game almost completely to players around him. He had enough technical genius to make even Clichy get some dutch courage from time to time.
Arshavin and Clichy are two jittery technicians when it comes to measured pass and move, and thus they keep it incredibly simple to the point of embarrassment. Even that is beyond them, and Arshavin, who has serious concentration problems, sloppily gives away a cheap concession.
Arshavin needs direct penetration in order to keep his juices flowing, and his focus dwindles when he thinks we are unnessarily slowing down moves and stripping them of conviction. Clichy, stapled to the touchline frozen in fear at the thought of being a genuine threat to the opposition, absolutley reeks of uncertainty and has no desire to provide Arshavin with the direct ‘up and at em’ element he thrives off.
Again, Hleb didn’t mind playing keep ball in that area and Clichy loved that. Eventually through patience the two of them usually did something half-useful, but it was by no means a great combo and a testimony of what Clichy can do with a compliant wing man.
Mazza, the commentary for weeks has been negative on Clichy – especially with his poor clearance v. Sunderland in extra time.
More so this season, I have noticed Arshavin making some very poor passes and for his talent level UNCHARACTERISTICALLY losing ball possession too soon in our build up.
Maybe this is why Clichy is hesitant to push forward all the time. Right or wrong, this tendency (losing possession early) has influenced Clichy’s productivity (moving forward).
Clichy is not the team’s problem, nor in the top 5. It would be great to have outside backs that could influence a match – Sagna and Clichy are not of that caliber.
BY NOT HAVING THIS DIMENSION IN ATTACK, the balance of the midfielders and forwards have added pressure to create goals.
But Arshavin’s passing doesn’t stop Gibbs bombing forward so that argument doesn’t hold up.
Clichy is just an awful attacking full back and hasn’t made a run into the area and shot/crossed in his ENTIRE career. For a team like us, it literally kills 25% our attacking potency( see the run Gibbs made against Spurs that was wrongly called offside for the difference a quality attacking full back makes).
Arshavin is average when it comes to pass and move, I’ve always maintained that, but he has an explosive talent when given the right conditions(such as Gibbs playing) and so you have to think holistically instead of ripping every player in the team just to be fair and not to be seen as picking on players. We’re a stronger side with Gibbs/Arshavin than Clichy/Arshavin or Clichy or anyone else. That’s got to be the main target here; creating the strongest side that contains individuals who have qualities that compliment others and also compensate for weaknesses of certain players e.g – Gibbs making runs beyond the defence(without the ball) so Arshavin’s lack of ability/fitness to skin full backs on the outside and run beyond himself with the ball(on a consistent basis) isn’t as exposed as it is when Clichy plays.
As Vibe said, it goes against what supposedly alot of fans hate(criticising players) and it has a ‘can’t see the forest for the trees’ mentality which means criticising individuals without taking into consideration factors around them. As unfair as it may seem, certain problems have higher priority than others and so putting every problem on an equal standing will mean chopping and changing every week.
Clichy is awful going forward regardless of circumstance so that’s why he gets criticism. If Arshavin continues to frustrate even when paired with a marauding full back, then the subject of his production on the pitch can be revisited. Until then he gets the benefit of the doubt – from me anyway.
It should also be noted that Arshavin came to our collective attention in the Euros (2008) when he absolutely created mayhem with Zhirkov behind him. Maybe he was at peak fitness. And Zhirkov (who hasn’t looked great in the few outings I’ve seen him in with Chelsea) benefited tremendously from teams being scared of Andrey taking the ball towards the center of pitch and pushed forward with gusto (as I remember). The combo to me just doesn’t look right (and Andrey looked far happier playing with Gibbs, midweek in the Partizan match).
All that being said, Andrey and Zirkhov (with a much weaker supporting crew) couldn’t get past Slovenia in 2 legs during the WC qualifiers. Maybe it was just a one tournament thing….
I was going to mention Zhirkov and think the point stands regardless of their recent form together.
Russia and Russian players are notoriously inconsistent and often flop when they get the big build up. Even in 2008, they both disappeared off the map against Spain.
I don’t put too much into Clichy not getting to the endline to make a cross. Even when Cole and Lauren were at Arsenal, they didn’t do it unless the momentum of the play took them there. That wasn’t very often. Playing crosses into the box has never been a staple in Arsenal’s championship winning teams.
Personally, I coach fullbacks that, when we’re in possession, to provide width to the team and not push forward further than about 25 meters from the endline; unless the momentum of play dictates they go forward. The reason being if we somehow lose the ball and the FB’s are caught too far up the pitch, it’s impossible to get back. Sure, your CM’s can cover but I don’t want Fabregas or Song in wide areas with no cover trying to cope with Ashley Young or Cristiano Ronaldo.
Not true.
Ashley Cole got to the byline often while at Arsenal. He used to cut back on the ground mostly – which is actually the most effective.
You dont coach your FBs to get to the touchline? Yet ALL the top-class fullbacks do it – without their team suffering defensively.
There is nothing that causes more panic than an effective fullback at the byline at the edge of the box ready with midfielders running into the box … how do you defend that?
Even if the overlapping FB does not get the ball … he creates space for the AM.
A fullback consistently stopping 25 yards from the byline is completely pointless offensively and defensively.
Anyway I’m not trying to offend you Fred. I feel you for all the passion you obviously have for our club! I hope we can watch a game some day. Have a few beers and enjoy a game! Maybe a YAMA GDC?? I’ll bring the beer :-D haha
I agree that if this team played a different style they might be more successful but I wouldn’t change our style for anything i really hope when AW leaves we can get someone who will follow in our philosophy. I think we can win titles the way we play even if it has been awhile. Yes I can see how frustrated some people might feel but I think the positives far outweigh the negatives or maybe i like kool-aid too much? ;)
Nobody is saying change our style. We all want an attacking team. But with proper defensive competence.
The Invincible and previous iterations of the team were all attacking but still had very good defense.
Coach, drill, mentor the defense and DMs and the team as a whole with regards to defensive and pressing tactics. And for crying out loud, NO, THE DM SHOULD NOT BE ROAMING THE PITCH! Not with our shaky defense and GK and certainly not in a 4-3-3.
Fred, Song is not deployed as the DM you imagine/want him to be.
This is Wenger Wonderland, where things are done in the Wenger way, like it or not.
Don’t you just love our great manager ;-)
I forget are you still on the kool-aid side?
Or is that some kind of mock/sarcasim bit you got going there?
lol!
I am a tea-total Hippie I don’t drink Kool-Aid, that stuff will kill ya ;-)
Light hearted “jibber jabbber” mockery ;-)
Mongers can hate Wenger all they like but it is Wengers World, what he says goes :laugh:
I don’t think our tactics were horrible against chelsea. We were just short a bit of quality (read: Fabregas) and made some silly defensive mistakes. I would not flame this team for losing 2-0 at the bridge probably the hardest place on the planet to go to especially when in my humble opinion we played well. Anyway b*tch all you want I just got a bit sick of reading it lol
I dont care about the Chelsea result that much.
We just need to fix protection from midfield and get a strong defensive strategy that protects the results at places like Sunderland and West Brom.
Fred, you talk about the Sunderland game as if you expect us to be Invincibles this season.
We played with ten men for the majority of the 2nd half and let in a goal probably because we “bottled it” under pressure and tried to DF too deep. How many goals did we let in against Sunderland? 1, in extra time when we were down to 10 men. How can you blame a poor MF performance or even a poor DF performance for that. We drew because of an unfortunate error, simple. There is no mountain only a molehill at present.
As for the West Brom game I have not watched it properly to assess what happened there, but at least two of the goals could have been prevented if not for poor GKing on the day.
Last year, Barca were playing lowly Sporting Gijon away …
Barca naturally had most of the possession, made quite a few chances … but were only one goal up by the 70th minute … so they subbed on Marquez to play as an extra DM and brought on Yaya Toure.
This meant they had Busquets, Toure and Marquez in front of their defense … with Xavi ahead of them and Pedro/Messi upfront ….
This was how all-out attacking Barcelona (then holding 6 titles!) lined up against Sporting Gijon for the last 20 minutes. All they cared about was just getting those three points and going home.
But ofcourse Arsenal is too GREAT to defend from midfield.
We are so great that DMs are of no use to us. Away to the strongest team in the league …. mehh! Push all the midfielders and the full backs forward!
We are too good to do any sort of defensive drills or organization worth speaking about.
We are too great to shut up shop away to Sunderland, 10 minutes to go, and down a man. If that game had gone differently, and had not acted “too good to defend” against West Brom, we would still be in the mix of things right now, and the Chelsea loss wont mean much.
Team weaknesses:
– No consistent discipline, organization, efficience or leadership.
– Too many small, slow players (slow in speed and thought)
– Too many injury prone players.
– Too many players who dont like to fight consistently.
– Too many players who like to do the “fun” stuff (running upfront and passing 5 yards) but not the hardwork (defending, getting to the byline, learning how to cross, taking responsibility).
– Not enough sweaty, painful defensive drilling.
– The Goalkeeping issue.
And to add to all that … a vacant DM position.
Its not that we are too great its just our style. We beat teams by trying to outscore them. I don’t feel there is anything wrong with that and our players are suited to playing that way. Again I think we would struggle trying to sit back and defend so it wouldn’t be the smartest idea at least I don’t think so.
No team (in any major league) wins anything by trying to outscore teams through out the season. They win by conceding the fewest. Usually the title winning teams shut up shop in the crucial games, then pad their goal difference by spanking the smaller teams.
We got to the CL final by shutting shop … no?
The Invincibles had a SUPER defense. And guess what? The Invincibles were a LOW-scoring team from an historic point of view. Since the EPL started in 92, the Invicibles total of 73 goals is the fourth LOWEST haul for a title-winning team! But they conceded only 26 goals which is the third lowest in history too!
So the idea that not defending and trying (pathetically) to outscore opposition is our style is utter nonsense.
Looking through the tables of the EPL, Spanish League, Serie A, Bundesliga and Champions League, the teams that win are the teams that concede the least – irrespective of how many they score.
Think about that when you talk about us having to outscore opposition.
—————–
The reason we would struggle if we sit back is because we are not using the right defensive coaching, tactics and strategies. And wrong personnel.
Nothing else.
Defending is hard work.
Wenger is acting like an indulgent parent who’s kid wants only ice-cream and cake … but isnt fond of the potatoes and broccoli.
Just because many teams win titles by not conceding many goals and playing solid defensive football doesn’t mean you can’t win titles by playing attacking football.
Oh, you dont seem to understand what I am saying.
A LOT of teams win with attacking football (Barcelona, Man U, Arsenal, Milan of the past, etc). Those attacking teams ALSO conceded the fewest goals in the season they won!!!
Attack BUT have a safe, solid and competent defensive strategy.
A good starting point will be not having your DM pretending to be an extra AM.
Yeah I’m not to excited by the idea of Song being an AM either but you know Wenger likes to try crazy stuff.
You know like convert a winger into a striker (Henry) or a midfielder into a defender (Toure).
Absolute Craziness
But the difference is that it isn’t working with Song. Nothing wrong with trying new things, but persisting with them when they don’t work is madness.
Wenger was NOT the first person to try making a winger or AM into a striker.
Ajax and Barcelona have been doing that for years!
Turning a defensive midfielder to a central defender is no where close to being a novel idea.
Also the 4th lowest scoring point you made is completely misleading as you must compare the teams total to the average goals scored per team in that season. Then compare that ratio with the other champions. Every season has a different dynamic due to a variety of reasons (relegated/promoted teams, coaching and team philosophy changes etc) so it is like comparing apples and oranges.
Please Fred answer this one, please :evilgrin:
BULLSHIT!
Why just look at the average number of goals each team scored? Why not those conceded? And the formations all the teams played? The weather at the time of the fixtures? The playing surfaces? The type of balls each season ?(jubalani causes more goals you know ;-)). Is the guy who reffed a particular fixture the same guy who reffed it the following season? If not how can you compare hey???!, are the team lineups the same?? how about that too?!
So are some of Henry’s goals in 2001 worth more or less than some of his goals in 2003? If there is a variance, then that puts to question his total of 226 Arsenal goals!
The Invincibles scored the fourth lowest number of goals and conceded the third lowest number. End of.
I’m not saying you are wrong I’m just saying its a useless statistic lol
To you all statistics are useless … including those 2 goals we conceded on Sunday. Got it! ;-)
I was going to reply but RVP4MVP said most of it in far less words than I would have.
“We are too great to shut up shop away to Sunderland, 10 minutes to go”
No we are not good enough DF to shut up shop. I have watched Wenger try to shut up shop many times by bringing on relatively Df players to see matches out. I have watched it fail more often than not to my recollection.
Song defended and broke up play high up in MF but you suggest that we didn’t Df from MF. We DF from MF well in my opinion. We were not outplayed at all in fact the opposite is true. It has nothing to do with this MF deficiency that you are so keen to prove that we lost this game. We lost because we were outclassed by two fantastic goals and not putting away the chances of our own.
I am not saying our MF does not have its deficiencies. But it worked well against Chelsea.
How about giving a little balance and telling us about the teams strengths. Please do.
The DMs job is not to defend “up the pitch” and jog back when the attack breaks down.
Fred, Song worked harder than anyone on that pitch on Sunday.
This is a team game Song has players to cover. He has to be aware that the ball will get behind him some time where he cannot recover it. Theoretically he should have another 3-5 players avaibale to mop up any balls he has not swept up further up the pitch, if you want to look at it in such simplistic terms.
The DMs job is not to defend “up the pitch” and jog back when the attack breaks down.
Lately there has been a lot of talk about tactics and how arsenal get it wrong against Manu and Chelsea. I totally disagree I think if this team tried to stay back and absorb the pressure we would get hammered. I don’t think this team can play in any gear except top gear lol…that might piss some people off and point to it as a weakness but i love them for it! haha
Ofcourse we cant sit back and defend. We have a crap defense, useless set of GKs and NO defensive midfield to speak of.
Thats why games against “real” teams are a sure-banker loss.
Yeah, which is why we should be having a cut-throat / clinical offense.
But we don’t.
You should just on this side support whatever team Horinho (real madrid? give them some time lol) coaches so you can get off on that sexy clinical attack lol
Even a cut throat/clinical offense wont save us.
It would make things interesting for sure, but we still arent winning squat with that midfield and defense.
Never know Drogba might break a leg or something…We always have a shot ;)
Drogba was out for a large chunk of last season.
In the ongoing spat between the various factions I think a few truths are starting to emerge….Vibe’s article is a nice re-hash of our naive approach in the “big matches,” but Sesh also speaks true when he talks about the lure of Arsenal’s positive football maybe leading to some long-term success (and something that keeps us coming back for more and more self-torture?)….
To re-write the history of the desert years (Kiwi, where are you?), I believe that we have improved, and some elements of the youth project have been fruitful, others less so. And we’ve augmented with some older players who’ve been useful for plugging some of the holes that have been exposed due to the extreme frailty of the squad. The downside, as Fred points out, is the lack of mentors for the younger players. (Robert Pires at London Colney, perhaps to inspire some interesting facial hair….) And unfortunately, the ones who might lead through their play instead watch desultory performances from the sidelines or physio-room…
Obviously AW is committed to playing attacking football. He acquires nothing but central midfielders–all with attacking instincts–who, it appears, earn their stripes by doing some time on the wings or in front of the back 4. If that happens to work out, some time further up the pitch is the reward.
It’s all fine for the competitions where wins are rewarded and draws are punished (the league, esp. fighting for a CL spot, and the group stage of the CL), especially now that the team is getting sick and tired of getting kicked around by the Stokes and the Blackburns. In the head to head battles against the biggest teams, however, the ability to stop the opposition, take advantage of their mistakes, play on the break, and make AND take a couple of chances are far more important.) It seemed we were getting better at TCB (Taking Care of Business), but maybe not….Our huge f**k up was dropping 5 against Sunderland & WBA, not 3 at Stamford Bridge…
The optimist in me says that we’ll come through the int’l break well (our best players already being crocked) and then (finally) have a solid run in Oct, Nov and Dec. The realist (not a monger yet….) says, hmmmm….new season, same old sh*t….
Fred, do you also write under the name Jeremy Wilson?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/jeremywilson/100012847/why-arsenal-keep-getting-it-wrong-against-both-chelsea-and-manchester-united/
This was my line of thinking as well above. Opponents know what they have to do to stop Arsenal, so why should they go out and play all attacking football against Arsenal. It is easy for them to give up possession in return for a win. Jose claimed this was Inter’s intent at Barca last season. Ofcourse, this plan requires expecting the opponent will waste their chances. This plan will continue to keep being used unless the opponent comes up with a way to make it fail. Arsenal have shown no evidence that they can do otherwise, so chances are Chelsea or other teams will keep using this over and over again.
At the Emirates last season, after Chelsea scored first, the commentator said something like “same old story. Arsenal play all the football but Chelsea score the goal.”
In fairness, stagg also made some of Wilson’s points in the run up to the game. Particularly in regards to our tactics and the idea that we play the same way, no matter who the opponent. Wenger stubbornly refuses to acknowledge, before, during or after, that maybe one size does not fit all.
true and I believe others have made similar points many times before about not having a plan B.
I wish!
He is spot on though.
Fred, as usual, you tackle the team issues head on. From my limited time in following the team, I would say our manager is unorthodox and thus life as an Arsenal fan is frustrating.
Josh is spot on, as Song (for me) is not an out an out DM. He can win the ball, hold possession under most pressure, has the touch to make the final ball, and beat opponents with the dribble – rare attributes, anywhere.
I believe its Wenger’s vision to create a lasting style of difference. The Dutch in the 70’s framed the term ‘total football’. We cannot develop a dynasty (and that is what all of us wish in the back of our minds), when you rely on one or two gifted players. If and when Cesc leaves, others have to have the confidence to win without him…..and this process takes blooding.
Wenger continually will go against the grain of common sense thinking by throwing in a player who is not the obvious first choice by media and fans.
To add to these thoughts, we are blessed to have an exceptionally talented CM in Cesc. However, Cesc (as we have all seen) has his strengths and weaknesses. He will not win many air balls, nor 50/50 tackles, nor overrun the opponent to win back the ball. (but he has deceptive foot speed (not quickness) – and herculean mental speed) – TO PLAY IN THE EPL, with a CM of this mould, I believe Cesc needs two dominating players around him. At the moment, Denilson would not be apart of such a partnership.
Wilshere and Ramsey are works in progress, both by 23 will hold their own against anyone. Despite the continued criticism of Diaby……if you objectively watched his play last season and this year, he is evolving into a team player, IMPROVED HIS FITNESS AND STRENGTH, and will be a force to reckon with; but at 24 he has not reached his potential and he still has two years (by football standards) to achieve even a greater level of performance.
I join everyone as disappointed for the loss to Chelsea, but we did compete on the field at a level I have not seen over the past 2-1/2 seasons and we fielded a team 3 years younger at every position.
Don’t forget that our last win over Chelsea, we needed two great goals by RvP (one of which he was offsides). When good teams play each other, very little separates.
What does separate is Wins and Losses. Every time.
People want to paper over/make excuses for the ongoing trend against Arsenal v. (Great Team). Maybe it’s time to just admit we’re still not really on their level.
(j/k…I know that’s not happening.)
I’m still a lot more pissed off at losing to west brom at home then chelsea away..
Sure. But as others have said, the real problem is evidenced by the fact that we did BOTH.
Mikel is an infinitely better AM than Song will ever be … yet you dont see him all over the place.
This new Wenger tactic – which you correctly identify as going against common sense – will only end in bitter tears.
Maybe you have seen something in Mikel (as an AM) that I have not seen. My point is that Mikel and Song are the same age but are supported by different experience levels.
Young players at 23, surrounded by 30 year olds, tend to avoid making waves and play a role. Young players at 23, surrounded by younger players or same age might TAKE more initiative for taking responsibility!
I’m not as pessimistic about where this team is headed.
I ask everyone, if at the return match in the spring. Arsenal has its strongest players available, Chelsea is missing Drogba, Anelka, Malouda, and Essien and we win 4-0; how much will be made of the fact that they are missing key players???? Arsenal take advantage of a weakened Chelsea team!
Mikel played only AM before joining Chelsea. He was the best AM at the 2005 U-21s by a long mile, Nigeria lost to a Messi double in the final.
Mourinho overpaid for him because he figured he could convert him into a Pirlo type DM. Ended up just converting him to a straight up DM.
Song on the other hand has never played AM, and all of a sudden wants to when he is the only DM.
Mikel is so overrated. If he didn’t have big price tag neither you or Stag would be talking about him, all you guys seem to rate are big name players.
If Mikel was Songs size he would be a nobody. I’d rather have Song than Mikel anyday.
I dont care for big name players. I would take an experienced “no-name” Mahmadou Diarra or Orlando Engelaar anyday.
Mikel is the DM in a team that has conceded 2 goals all season.
Song on the other hand struggled to start for a BS Cameroon squad at the WC. And his team concedes goals at the drop of a hat because he doesnt have a clue.
Either he was not fit or the manager was a fool, I think it was a combination of both.
yeah.
we wouldn’t want any star players in our team.
so when they become star players, we sell them.
good plan.
its working beautifully, if you are trying to make profit, and not win shit ad nauseum.
of course you don’t think much of Mikel, because he wears BLUE, if he were in Arsenal Red, he’d be the next coming of christ…
I know, Arsene and Arsenal can do no wrong, its all for the greater good, the future is always bright, its always injuries that cause our losses, its always some bullshit reasoning, its never that WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, or THE MANAGER HAS FCKED THE TEAM UP…
but that’s good for you… enjoy yourself… I simply realize we have no chance to win, and thus I have no expectations, watching with an indifference I have never had since I started watching Arsenal some 15 years ago.
And, I am not alone.
If that indifference will continue to keep you Mongering to a minimum I will be well pleased ;-)
Considering what we had before the manager came I wouldn’t say he has “FCKD UP” team.
Fred, if you had told me before the game that Wenger would choose to use Wilshere in the holding role against Chelsea with Song further up the pitch, I would have probably agreed that to be stupid. However, given the way the game played out, it may have been a good idea. Why not get Song in the battle further up the pitch? We weren’t dominated in midfield and Song being further up the pitch isn’t the reason we lost the game.
The problem I had with Wilshere back there was that he often wasn’t. Many times, there was a huge gap between our midfield and our two CB’s. Was that down to Wilshere’s inexperience or our two new CB’s, who lack the pace of Toure and Gallas, playing ten yards deeper? Maybe a bit of both.
In my personal opinion, I don’t think Song has ever been good enough to play the holding role. He’s better suited where he can go out and kick the crap out of people with someone covering him; the role that Felipe Melo, Mascherano, and de Jong often play. Wenger rated Denilson higher than Song in the holding role and seems to rate Wilshere higher as well. Song’s good further forward because he adds a bit of robustness to our CM area that Cesc and Diaby can’t.
I don’t think size is so relelvant in the holding role. The three holding players I rate highest in the past 15 years are Deschamps, Makelele, and Pirlo. Neither of those guys are particularly big but were the best in the business. The one thing they did have that Jack lacks is experience. We’ll see what changes Wenger makes, if any.
Song is still the best defensive mid we had on the pitch and should not have been roaming.
That tactic is ridiculous, has never worked … and I dont need an oracle to tell me it will never work.
The idea of a DM is not to prevent you from being “dominated” (dominating play or possession is NOT the aim of football) … it is a safety valve. A stabilizer.
It doesnt matter how much we dominate any game, if there are a few too many leaks at the back this team has ZERO chance of winning ANYTHING.
A lot of Arsenal fans have a complete misunderstanding of what a DM is supposed to do …
Funny how Barca have a dedicated DM in their team. And often employ more in tougher scenarios. And they play in a much slower league no less.
Ah well never mind, we arent winning squat anyway.
Any fool knows what a out and out DM is supposed to do Fred.
What seem to be unable to grasp is that Arsene has a different outlook to player roles on the field than your box standard definitions anyway.
If Song is instructed to roam and join in the attck more that does make his role the box standard Makelele type DM you descibe.
Yet you arent any fool, you are much more special than that ;-)
LOL! :-)
Song (and Diaby) further up the pitch, provided a robustness in midfield that no one else in the side could have provided. If Song had played deeper, Chelsea would have absolutely dominated the midfield.
Chelsea are tough enough to beat when Arsenal dominate midfield. Why relinquish that initiative? We’ve all see what Chelsea are capable of when they dominate the midfield. To invite Chelsea to set up shop in the Arsenal half of the pitch is suicidal; especially with two new CB’s and Flappy in goal.
The best form of defense against Chelsea was to control the midfield. That gave Arsenal the best chance to win. It didn’t result in victory but allowed the team to be competitive and kept them from getting embarassed.
Funny how in the past we have managed to hold our own in Chelsea games – winning the possession battle – without Song bombing forward.
Can you name ONE successful team that used this ridiculous tactics in the last 25 years???
I mean, I see giant holes right in front of DM that I did not see LAST SEASON AT ARSENAL yet its alright??
Two seasons ago my problem was Denilson was so easily beaten. But at least he was there to give faint hope. Last season Song solved the problem a bit.
Now we have regressed to having nobody there at CRUNCH moments – where you would find Song ambling back slowly.
Ofcourse Clichy would have been caught upfront, so it would be left to a nervous Koz or Squil to face overlapping forwards.
Forget about the Chelsea game, this lack of defensive cover from midfield will cost us goals against much weaker opposition. Meaning more West Brom type results.
This scenario is the equivalent of removing a couple of defensive backs to add to the defensive line … ofcourse if the QB still gets past that you are wide open!
Okay ladies I won’t interrupt your lover’s spat for too long –
Guess who is practicing with the team at London Colney?
Robbie Pires after being released from Villareal.
yeah.
Petit trained with Arsenal after he left. Campbell did obviously. Its a common occurence.
Hopefully Samir, Jack, and Andrei will take notes.
Sign Pires NOW !!!!!!
Amen.
EFF OFF that would “kill” Wilshire ;-)
No seriously, it would be like a Vieira signing, not too sure about it.
I want to remember him at his best, but hey he could help bring up the kids.
When I read that, I had a smile on my face, something that the current squad does not do. Ah legend :)
Anyone notice that van Marwijk has dropped de Jong from the Dutch team after his rash challenge yesterday? It supports Wenger’s argument that the officiating is crap in England. How is it that the ref sees nothing wrong with a challenge but the coach is so disgusted with the challenge that he drops the player from the national team?
Mazza, did you say “jibber jabber”? Ha-haa!
GET SOME NUTS!
Don’t think anyone expected too much out of this game. Our best CF, CM, CD, GK, and leading scorers were all out. This is not to mention we were playing away from home against the champions. While no one is thrilled with the result, when you consider the circumstances, many are happy with the performance. Sure, Barcelona beat Chelsea but even they couldn’t have done it without help from the officiating crew.
Fred, I agree with just about everything you’ve said. Ashley Cole is an Arsenal killer. Every Arsenal game he creates a goal and came very close to scoring one yesterday.
I sang Michael Obi’s praises the whole day in the GDC. His tackling, interceptions, and positional sense disrupted everything we tried to do. If anyone missed it, watch the game again. He’s been mentored by Makelele and Essien and there’s a lot of Carvalho in his game. If you take away that mentorship, there’s no way he becomes the player he is; not at his young age. It takes more than just talent to make a team like Chelsea not even miss Makelele, Ballack, and Lassana Diarra. And it takes more than coaching to make a talented player a champion. To jettison internal mentorship, I believe, is Wenger’s greatest folly.
Where I disagree with Fred is concerning Song. We don’t know what Wenger has instructed the team to do so it’s difficult to condemn Song for presumably abandoning his DM post. Maybe Song was the box-to-box guy being covered by Wilshere. That’s what it looked like. We simply don’t know. What we do know is Song certainly didn’t play poorly.
Fabianski didn’t play poorly either. My biggest fear was him making a costly mistake and then self-destructing. With that, I think Wenger wants Almunia out so Flappy’s likely to keep his place. We’ll see.
As for Drogba’s goal, what can you say? It was Alex’ goal that pissed me off. A very careless pass from Nasri forced Koscielny to concede that free kick. At 1-0, it was always a game but at 2-0 that late it was over. In fairness, we fell apart and Chelsea could have score two more after their second. Samir’s had a descent start to the season but he needs a talking to after that.
If it is indeed Wenger’s tactic to have Song roam the pitch and be covered SOLELY by a 5’7″ 18 yr old attacking midfielder – against the wolfpack Chelsea midfield, against Anelka/Malouda cutting in – AWAY from home …. then surely Wenger is incredibly stupid.
How could Song play well if he wasnt doing his MAIN job?
There was always panic EVERY time Chelsea launched the ball forward … Chelsea’s experienced forwards vs. our naked jittery back four … with Song scrambling back at his adorable snail speed. That is a very unstable system.
Your CBs just can NOT be your first line of defense.
Wenger is not just experimenting with “youth” and with “not buying” … he is also experimenting with kamikaze tactics.
This would be a particularly foolhardy strategy given how lethal Chelsea’s counter.
So, yes. Either Song is freelancing or Wenger’s lost his mind.
The only way Arsenal were going to take the 3 points on Sunday was to have the breaks go our way. Anyone following Arsenal would agree and understand why.
Missing Bendtner, RvP, Cesc, Theo, Vermalen – there were no options on the bench.
What did Anelka do in the match? Malouda? I didnt’ see Essien score. For every Chelsea corner and every free kick into our box – we controlled comfortably.
They are not invincible and other clubs will find success and take points away from them when the queue to their training table is backed up (and for this aged team it will) or when they leave the friendly confines of the Bridge.
There were other Arsenal players who left their ‘A’ game and ‘A’ effort in the locker room……….just wondering why they get a free pass.
People keep repeating Chelsea are not ‘invincible’. On an Arsenal message board. Strange for a couple of reasons.
Anelka did nothing because he was being Anelka. Lazy.
Over here it means rambling on about nothing in particular or jive-talking.
I may have actually just made it up though.
According to the Urban Dictionary, you nailed it.
1. jibberjabber
jibberjabber means verbal comotion, or talking in a way that annoys anyone present. and can be replied to with the phrase “quit your jibberjabber margo you fool”
Maybe we can put the slightly :-? comments above about potential propositioning of offspring down to that then ;)
Just call him margo.
LOL @ Mazza, COWARD ;-)
Or as Mr. T said, “I aint got no time for the jibber jabber.”
I’m fully aware of the term jibber jabber. It’s just I’ve never heard anyone use that term except for Mr. T on The A-Team back in the eighties; hence another Mr. T one-liner “Get Some Nuts!”.
Ok, it is some consolation to think there are no invincible teams in the league and that every team is beatable. Ofcourse, there have been no invincible teams in the league since….Arsenal itself :) Those unbeaten squad memories do make the current beatable squad look worse in comparison. I think the clock stopped after that 2004 season and there was a halt on improving because nothing would clearly top that, apparently not even winning a treble.
Winning a trophy, $$$$ [insert amount of choice]
But going through an entire season unbeaten, priceless.
There are some things money can’t buy, for everything else there are title hungry owners at Chelsea, Man Utd and [insert other foreign bought club of choice]
Back in the title winning Arsenal days, it was easy to take a loss on its own terms because the team was competent to shrug it off. Now, I have to lump a result with the past few seasons because I see an annoying pattern. With the exception of the last few years when Man Utd dominated Arsenal throughout, there have been many games when Arsenal lost a game or dropped points when they shouldn’t have. Even back in the Carling Cup final against Chelsea, Arsenal could have taken a 2-0 or 3-0 lead but they didn’t. At the Emirates, Arsenal were 0-2 down to Chelsea when they shouldn’t have been. Arsenal will have enough possession against most teams. That could either be by plan or the other team could say it is their choice they are letting Arsenal have possession. It is up to Arsenal to make do with their chances otherwise, there is no onus on the opponent to exert themselves too much to get a result.
Ofcourse, it is a bit unfair to judge this team on a loss or a two. Heck, Arsenal could lose 10-15 league games in a season and even then it would be harsh to judge this team. Because this Arsenal is built for the future baby. In each Arsenal game, some player will be gaining new confidence, some player will be improving and some one will be regaining their fitness. And even if it appears that no one has learned anything, it will still prove to be a valuable experience for when the future comes. My problem is that I don’t have the hot tub time machine that Wenger clearly has. So I can’t peek a look at the glorious future thereby allowing me to enjoy all these present failures or even see a hint of a + in a –
And it is not possible for me to be drunk enough for every game so that I start seeing a – as a +
8-)
Reality, I expected us to lose this game but at the same time I thought we would be outplayed, out muscled and Drogba would feast on our back 4.
Reality check, based on my expectations we played well, had a lot more chances and were beaten by 2 great goals. 1st goal was unreal and nobody’s fault. 2nd goal was defensive naivety, you NEVER allow a defender in the interior of your wall. Malouda peeled away and Alex put the ball through that space. Brazil started that trick in the 60’s. Total lack of defensive coaching.
In the end, Chelsea has clinical finishers and Arsenal continues to have none.
Verdict? Arsenal is till not ready for prime time.
“Verdict? Arsenal is till not ready for prime time.”
A lot of us figured this out after the Sunderland game ;-)
Simple question – If Arsenal had defeated Sunderland and West Brom, would last night’s defeat have felt so bad?
Simple answer – No.
Amen
What are the chances of losing the Birmingham home game??
I figure it could be as high as 40% …
I imagine the Hleb-meister having the complete freedom of the center (since our DMs actually hate playing DM anyway).
With Hleb standing unopposed in front of our CBs and the giant, 6ft 8in Zigic standing on Koscielny’s toes … I imagine several “cat amongst the pigeons” scenarios.
So maybe some Arsenal player should annoy Hleb, causing him to retort with a slap and getting himself sent off.
Nah. That sounds too complicated and it would require breaking Arsenal rules as it would mean coaching the team taking into account the opponent. Arsenal don’t worry about other teams or their players. They just prepare the same, week in, week out :)
Aha, remember what Sagna said before the Chelsea game … “its all about us, not about them”
Arsenal only need to get it “right” … the opposition doesnt matter ;-)
Exactly.
The Bundesliga is completely going nuts!
Mainz is top with 100% wins.
ALL the CL clubs are in the bottom half of the table.
Bayern are 12th … 13 points from the league leader!
It is a welcome diversion from the EPL.
On Sat night, I preferred to watch Nurnberg beat Schalke instead of Sunderland v ManU.
The EPL is fast sinking in terms of quality.
I believe Mainz have the lowest payroll in the league too. That would never happen in the EPL.
My German friend said that Mainz had no players at the World Cup, so they got together like 4 weeks before any other club and had a much better pre-season than anyone else, which shows in their top fitness levels.
Whether they will be able to continue this for the whole season remains to be seen.
But it is lovely to watch a league which is not dominated by any single team.
Try the Championship.
Always competitive.
I don’t get the Championship.
And the Bundesliga, La Liga and Serie A are all better in terms of quality.
At least we didnt get humiliated! ;-)
The end result is still exactly the same though.
IF we had beat Sunderland and West Brom … then we could really brush this aside and say its just a road bump against a more experienced team.
Unfortunately it isnt. Ah well.
———————————
About the Left back spot. Ashley Cole’s attacking play completely CONTRASTS that of our dear ol’ Gael.
Why doesnt Clichy ever, ever, ever, ever ATTEMPT what Cole did for their first goal – get to the byline and cut the ball back on the ground???
Every other LB I know has done it a couple of times. Folks like Cole and Evra are masters at it. But I have never actually seen Clichy get to the byline in the last four years! What really is the point of him going forward?
—————————————
When Chelsea lost the ball and Arsenal were in wide areas, Mikel dropped deep to become a third CB (some of the commentators noted that). That is a relic from the Mourinho days to counter the attacking midfielders running into the box outnumbering the CBs. With the other CMs dropping deep to cover the DM it is a sound tactic at that.
Arsenal on the other hand always seems to be winging it defensively. Whatever happens, happens.
Wenger at some point will have to actually start formulating defensive strategies – to deal with crosses, with second balls, with midfield runners in the box, with developing plays out wide and with regards to closing down passing channels.
If we cant get these right we just cant win the league or CL. Because in the crunch in March/April when all the players are tired, they fall back on regimented TRAINING and ROUTINE!
We dont have any defensive routine worth speaking about.
———————-
It would also be nice if Song STOPPED harrying players up and down the pitch. That is the job of the “middle” CM (in this case Diaby). Diaby or whoever harries and forces a loss of position or hurried play and the DM cleans up.
IF the DM is the one doing the chasing around who cleans up the loose balls? In a 4-3-3 where the DM is literally the only protection the defense has it really is kamikaze to continue this policy – whether against Chelsea or Wolves.
Maybe Diaby and Song should be made to watch 100 hours of Essien and Mikel’s videos.
Mikel Obi is the same age as Alex Song and despite Mikel actually being a good AM before joining Chelsea he doesnt roam around the pitch needlessly like Song does.
Daiby was playing behind the striker. His main duties were offensive what are you on about.
Was it a 4-3-3 or a 4-3-2-1? with he dynamism of our team either or in any one game.
Have you not considered that Song would stay back like Mikel if that is what Arsene wanted him to do? I am sure if Arsene wanted Song to do so Song would have done so or Arsene would have taken him off. Without Song’ energy closing down people wherever he could we would have been accused of not pressing and putting enough pressure on the opposition. Why you should view breaking up and disrupting play needless I do not know.
Song had a good game he was better than Mikel in every way today. But i suppose as Song is not a big name buy he should not be valued as much as Mikel right?
yes. Song outplayed Mikel in every way…
and we shut down Chelsea.
we stopped Drogba.
we created more chances.
Fabianski played a good match.
we were wonderful out there.
and the scoreline proves it.
Oh. right.
I forgot. We “outplay” and “have more possession” than Chelsea every match we play… and they always go home with a shut out and 3 points.
I am glad we play so pretty. And we are so deep. And that we do things the right way.
Its very comforting on days like today.
The job of a DM (in a 3 man midfield) is not to harry ALL over the pitch.
That drags him out of position too often leaving a gaping hole down the middle. Especially with no midfield support from the wings, that puts too much pressure on an already weak defense.
One of the OTHER two CMs should do the harrying and breaking up of play … while another sits back.
There has been absolutely NO successful team with a DM that consistently roams all over the pitch.
Even Barca in their pomp have one full-time DM. And when they are protecting a game, they use TWO with Xavi adding a third defensive cover in midfield.
But ofcourse Wenger is going to re-invent the wheels of common sense and win the league with a shaky defense and ZERO defensive cover from midfield!
“There has been absolutely NO successful team with a DM that consistently roams all over the pitch.”
Correct if he is assigned to be an out and out DM. But that goes back to my point, was he? I don’t think so.
I love how the blind optimists can take a positive
from ANOTHER SHUTOUT LOSS to Chelsea…
we could play for 390 minutes and NOT SCORE.
yeah, keep praying that “they are going to drop a lot of points”…
that’s HILARIOUS.
what are we going to drop?
we might be closer to the bottom than the top by the next time
Arsenal play Chelsea near Christmas…
ManCity are closer to Chelsea than we are…
but take pride and joy in a match where we didn’t get embarrassed!
that’s the positive.
we ONLY lost 2-0, and their goals were GOOD goals, not gifts.
NOTHING has changed.
yet it was a wonderful positive display.
we are a LAUGHING STOCK to Chelsea.
THEY 1000% know they will beat us.
They should play with blind-folds next time. Might make it a bit more interesting.
Oh damn the party is about to get going I think i’ll be off ;-)
Stamford Bridge was like the Highbury Library for the most of the game. The fans were shitting ther pants as they knew their team were lucky not to be 2-0 down in what 20 mins or so.
They were even silenced up until the 2nd goal late in the 2nd half because they could see thir team were forced onto the back foot.
Yes I suppose we could pray that they drop point, but I hardly think we need devine intervention for this Chelsea side to drop points they are are hardly Invincbles are they :smug: Are you so “blind” with Mongerism you can’t see that?
Yep our depleted team did not score but hey we created far more chances than we had the last two times we played Chelsea I think.
Some people will look at positives some will just simply Monger. Different outlooks on life, that’s OK ;-)
Where does this “Chelsea will drop points” consolation come from??
Arent WE going to drop points too?
We are 7 points behind the leaders already going into October.
I have decided to go back to my previous policy of dealing with your my dear Master Monger… :yawn:
Retreating back into the delusion is your only option really.
Anymore revisionism from you on your past opinions was only going to end one way – with you being proved wrong and having no choice but to admit as much.
Best to obfuscate with emoticons and jibber jabber ;)
And what nonsonsense are you talking now!
Last time you accused me of back tracking you backed it up with squat diddley. Some shit about me saying Diaby was incredible and taking an old dusty quote out of context.
Who the frigg was talking to you anyway. I suppose when I said Master Monger you felt that was you right?
As for delusional I think that sums up your estimation of the mighty yet oh so fallen Hleb. Your over hype of the fellow and his subsequent demise still haunts you to this day doesn’t it. Well console yourself you have a new infatuation or two to drool over aye? Enjoy :inlove: :giggle:
So, the hippies are in the house….(And me now drinking coffee and getting ready to hear some free music in Park….)
We ARE improved, and with a skeleton squad we did alright….And some players probably learned some tremendous lessons playing in the highest quality match of their careers….
For example, Chamakh…a great signing, may figure out (as Drogba knows) that you don’t go flopping with Mike Dean as your referee…Instead you us your brawn and play on. And I like LK6 (a real fighter) and Squillaci, a competent journeyman….We’ve definitely plugged some holes.
Of the little fellas, Arshavin, we must admit, is a fitness liability, Nasri a ball hog/dead end (but improving….) and Wilshere is still only 18. Among the bigger guys, Song is not Cesc, but he’s a fully committed player and isn’t looking to hide. And Diaby, if he can stay on the pitch, has his usefulness. And when the crocks come back we should look better…..
And Chelsea are a mature squad, uninjured at the moment. Lampard and Banayoun? did anybody miss them? Or Ballack or Joe Cole, for that matter….. Learning to compete against them is not the current problem. We need improved health and greater composure against the lesser teams. And in the new year we’ll get other chances to try our luck against the best….
For me, the trouble is that everything seems stop-gap….Flexing our financial muscle to keep (crocked) Cesc (against his will)?!?….Our signings seem only to replace the chronically injured (Makh for RVP&Bendy) or the departed miscreants (Kos/Squill for Gallas, Sylvestre and Sol). And in Goal we just pray….
Where’s the PLAN? Arshavin and Nasri aren’t team players…What style are we trying to play if our hopes lie with them to individually make goals happen? And what about the commitment to youth and fitness? After an hour today, we were gassed and yet nobody was left to sub on (JET’s 1st PL match?!?, Vela must be dropping down the pecking order, and given his poor first touch when put through, perhaps we can see why…And Denilson, maybe justly, was left to sit as he’s judged unable to revive the MF.) Rosicky turns 30 tomorrow….
Lots of work, between now and the January transfer window so that we can move forward, not just try and get fingers in the dike….
Although I (and everyone else) should be used to this same script, I can’t help but feel annoyed by the result, or the manner of it at least.
We did alot of things well ( as always) and I think Wilshere was great. Knew exactly when to play wide and when to pause and surge through the middle. He also is good at anticpating where the opposition midfielders are trying to pass and so defensively he is subtley effective as well as being good in the tackle.
It’s the same drones that give us the ground hog feel though: Nasri, Clichy, Song and Diaby.
Diaby and Song always switch off or get caught on the ball(Song for the first goal), and Nasri looks like he’s folding sheets everytime he attacks ; everything has to so measured and delicate. Clichy is well, Clichy. An utterly abhorrent footballer in possession.
So, once again, alot of positives, once again rendered somewhat meaningless because of the continued failings of others.
P.S – I know Arshavin was frustrating, again, but he came incredibly close opening the scoring and I think once Keiran Gibbs gets a permanent slot, we’ll see more of his good to compensate the bad( A “bad” which I warned everyone about when people thought he was “Hleb with goals”). I’m afraid he doesn’t have the concentration or fitness to be a foot soldier and a sharp shooter.
Mazza your infatuation with certain players isn’t just funny to me anymore but rather disturbing.
I wouldn’t want you dating my daughter… or should I say my son in your case (if he were so inclined) ;-) You’re really obsessive.
Wilshere was great but the rest of the MF wasn’t right? Damn you are so biased it is unreal.
“Diaby and Song always switch off or get caught on the ball” When?
You cite Song for the first goal, Song was fouled. Your bias ensures you elect not to mention that.
You also fail to mention Song being the most effective Arsenal player in breaking up or disrupting opposition play today. He was far more effective than Jack in that front. Generally Song had busy game and was involved in a lot of the good we did going forward too, some good passing and possession play.
As you band about criticisms onto others why not criticise the latest recipient of your man-love :inlove: . I remember him being quite errant in his long range passing in the first half and fading drastically later on in the 2nd.
I don’t like criticising my players when they do not deserve it. But I especially hate you criticising them when it is done just to justify your perverse favouritism.
Jack Wilshere is a 18 yr old boy with great potential. Please stop making him out to be the most important MF in our club.
Oh and what utter bollocks: “defensively he is subtley effective as well as being good in the tackle”
You should be a politician or con-artist. Jack Wilshere good in the tackle, you are having a laugh, he is as good in the tackle as Paul Scholes; hit and miss.
You used to always complain about Cesc’ lack of DF ability and he is far, far, I repeat far better DF than Jack at this stage of his fledgling career.
“I wouldn’t want you dating my daughter… or should I say my son in your case (if he were so inclined) Wink You’re really obsessive.”
For someone so concerned with decorum, you bring the conversation to some really strange, dark places.
Why you would want to introduce the subject of sexuality, much less bring your children into it…
People who see that sort of thing where’s it’s not are most often revealing something about themselves.
You may want to deal with that somewhere other than a football message board.
Dude, this is Arthur you are talking about!
Keep your nose out of it, was I talking to you? I suppose when the master is being attacked it is natural for his dogs to come running ;-)
This is something Mazza started a long time ago, you know me I like to finish. So you keep nose out of what doesn’t concern you :teeth:
“you know me I like to finish So you keep nose out of what doesn’t concern you”
Wow. Everything’s about sex now? And Fred, you are NOT invited.
Anyway, I’m not checking in to see where you like to finish. New thread, please!!!
You miss the the point. Mazza or more likely Fred started this homosexual jibe a long time ago concerning Adebayor.
Mazza crowned it all with a witty link to Tom Jones singing Sex Bomb, hilarious I thought. Hence my reference to his sexuality, Mazza is well aware of this. I’m poking fun with a nasty edge :evilgrin:
Chelsea starting X1 are an experienced cohesive unit.
THEY ARE NOT INVINCIBLE and there are many matches remaining.
We put them under pressure more than enough times.
There is only one Drogba. I thought our CB’s made his life difficult more so than in the past. His goal, good or lucky, was about Drogba and his competitiveness.
Our players usually targeted for poor play – gave good accounts of themselves.
Too many times we lost the 50/50 balls in midfield, we were a step late in challenges; maybe some of that can be attributed to our away match mid-week vs. Chelsea having a home tie.
Chamakh continues to impress. Diaby more forward, looked more comfortable, although he still has moments where he ball watches.
I thought Jack played well the first half, and looked tired later on. He’s going to be a great player, along with a recovered Ramsey.
Down in the Bay Area and watched the match with the SF Gooners (50 or so) at Maggie McGarrie’s. Very fun, but, as usual, for the match…. (0 for 2 on my travels…not so good….)
On the plus side, Diaby was able to return to the match, Flappy’s pants are relatively unsoiled and we’ve got a nice two week break for the squad, with the usual cripples sufficiently injured to avoid international duty….
Positive as I might like to be, 2-nil flatters us….
Yes, their goals could be construed as lucky and our chances might’ve worked out (with an Arsenal-loving God at the helm), but if Flappy hadn’t stood tall it could’ve been far worse.
But to step away from the individual match and step into a meta-narrative about the team (as all we like to do)….let’s talk about Frugal, Frugal Arsenal and the famous swerving on the road from left back, Cashley Hole….We drew the line in the sand, pushed Ashley over it (and somehow he’s managed to “mentally” overcome the betrayal) because we had a suitable replacement in Gael Clichy….
While there was a gulf in quality on display IN EVERY POSITION today (except maybe right back?) nowhere was it worse than at left back. Cole was flawless defensively, and plenty potent going forward. Clichy….Well, one of his shots (“Don’t Shoot….Ever” said the guy next to us…) was closer to the goal post than the corner flag….With Arshavin gassed after 20 minutes, Clichy going forward is the height of irresponsibility….Luckily Flappy guarded his left post in a way that
Mooney can only dream of….
Some of the other mismatches can be written off to youth or naivete, exacerbated of course by the general frailty of the team (injuries), and I hope to explore some of those themes over the international break.
There ARE positives to take from the match, but right now, for me, is not the time. West Brom (and Sunderland) were the points we needed to corral….There were none on offer today….
I think there is more reason for gloom. after a match like the one last week against West Brom, then the one today.
We were good, we played pretty well, just that Chelsea is our bogey team. I dont think we enter any other fixture, with so little chance as the ones against Chelsea. This can probably only end with the departure of Drogba.
But, Chelsea aren’t the same dominating force against any other EPL team. They also have their weaknesses, which are better exposed by teams like City, and Everton, at times Bolton and Tottenham.
I still think we are in good money to finish in the top 2.
Also, if we outperform and they underperform/ slip up. then we still have an outside chance of catching the best team in London. :(
Also, rating for the match, Fabianski was above expectations and looked pretty stable and composed, Clichy was good defensively, but provided zero attacking options, Arsha, Diaby Koosh were all good without glorious moments. Nasri and Song were disappointing, Squill was horrific, and Wilshere and Sagna were the better performers.
Special mention for Chamakh, he was the fox in the box too often, but too wasteful, reminiscent of a NB52, and he missed a chance to shine on a big occasion. But I still have high hopes of him.
Thank goodness for another pragmatist
Freak, I agree Chelsea are not all that, they will drop many points from now ’til the end of the season. However the question is can we capitalise when they do?
I thought Nasri was OK today held onto the ball a little too long at time but looked positive going forward, I cannot fault him at all really.
Song harassed all over the pitch and broke up or at least disrupted play more than any Arsenal MF from what I saw. He also made some good plays going forward.
Squilla had a bad moment or two but was OK as was Kosch. I do not blame Squilla for Drogba goal, I just have to applaud Drogba’ ingenuity.
I cannot see how you can compare Chamakhs “wastefulness” can compare to that of what got NickyB the Barndoor tag. He missed no “sitters”, even the header he missed was not a sitter although we all expected him to score.
Fabianski did not make a “fatality” today but he made a couple errors one tyoically comical gaff near the beginning of the game, still has a lot to do to get out off jail in my eyes.
Agree about Chamakh. Waaaaay too soon to be making the Nicky B. comparisons. I’ve seen people on other boards ready to write him off already. Not sure I get that.
Completely agree about Fabianski. Around 24′ he basically fisted a ball behind him and directly into the area. I think it was Clichy who saved him from that one. It feels like the standards are so low for him, and Arsenal goalkeeping in general, we get over-excited when a major blunder in goal doesn’t kill us.
He had a solid match and can’t really be blamed for either of the goals. No more, no less.
“It feels like the standards are so low for him, and Arsenal goalkeeping in general, we get over-excited when a major blunder in goal doesn’t kill us”
Oh so true unfortunately
The only thing less surprising than the result itself is the usual suspects taking heart from the quality of the loss. After all, Chelsea scored once-in-a-lifetime goals and we were just ‘unlucky’. Even though the gap is widening in reality, it’s closing in dreamland. Yep, another tremendously encouraging dropping-of-points to Chelsea.
We’ll get ’em next time! Or the time after that!! Or some other time!!! Doesn’t matter!!! 7 points off the lead!!! Could be worse!!! Could be 20!!! GOOD STUFF!!!!
HA HA, blooming Monger! typical!
There is no point even debating with you, don’t want to spoil your fun ;-)
Excuse me, party on :lol:
You’re having a grand old time based on yet another loss the Chelsea. Drunk of fumes of cluelessness.
Yes, art. This loss is special. This loss is different. This loss proves something that all the previous losses didn’t.
You’re quite correct, in that you have no point.
LOL! nice dude nice
The four most miserable words in the English language: What did I tell you. 2-0 and a goal each half, as predicted. We enjoyed big chunks of midfield possession without looking able to covert it into goals.
We don’t have any winners or leaders on the field. No one who can make the surging run, or inspire a gearshift to push for goal. Our CBs get more and more jittery with every game. The most assured player at the back today was Fabianski!
We could easily have lost 4-0. Same old, same old. All very tedious and stale now, Mr. Wenger.
Damn MacMac you sound like Fred or worse still Mazza, chill out dude.
Did you watch the game? There was no same old about it… apart from the scoreline that is.
We had several chances of our own it could be argued that we could have won three nil… I know a tall order even for the most ardent Hippie but 4-0 to Chelsa would also be way off the mark.
We did not just have possession in MF we were penetrative and and on another day could have scored 3.
Give the guys some credit, and cheer up. It appears you are so distraught you cannot even assess the game performance correctly.
“Apart from the scoreline”
Bwhahahahahahahahaha!
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln….
Apart from the scoreline, sweet FA matters.
LOL dude your passionate Mongerism is outstanding.
Maybe you are trying to usurp your boss and claim the title of Monger of the year, I don’t know but in a weird kind of way I ‘m enjoying watching you attempt it.
I am always concerned obout my teams performance regardless of the scoreline. I hate when my tyeam lose but love it when we play well. A defeat at Chelsea is not such a big issue especially at this stage of the season, stop panicking dude, get a grip off yourself.
I rather look at the positives, like how well we played, you would rather rant an rave about about the scoreline.
That’s your thing dude, party on :-D
Aww, you love it when we play well. Damn the result, hugs for everyone. That’s one of the best things about U9 football. Everyone tries, everyone gets a ribbon, right?
You know, with your love of ‘style points’, I really do think gymnastics is much more your sport. When they try hard and fall short, it quite often means something in the end.
LOL!
I did say I hate it when we lose didn’t I?
Yeah “hugs for everyone”, Hippie love all round :-D beats your drepressing
negativism.
Please, dude chill out, please don’t :cry:
I’m extremely chill. Absolutely nothing today worth getting excited about.
Hmmm.. Am I the only one not overly disappointed by this? We played MUCH better than I expected. The difference between the two sides was clinical finishing. They had it, we did not… Hopefully we improve in the area, but we keep that level of performance and commitment up for the rest of the season (poor finishing aside), then I think we should be fine (keeping in mind I don’t think anyone is going to usurp Chelsea’s hold on the trophy).
Happy with Fabianski as well… Good for him!
Nasri should have tracked Cole for the first goal. Not much can be done about the Alex one… Just applaud.. Good FK. We should put in overtime hours in training practicing finishing! We were woeful! Should have been up a goal within 30 seconds, and had numerous chances. Unlike previous games where we dominated possession but created nothing, something was different today, we troubled them a lot more than previous games I felt.
Anyway, maybe it’s the fact I went in expecting nothing that I’m not too downhearted. Moving on…
No you are not the only NOT overly disappointed.
Given the fact that AA23 only half played we had no real game changers on the pitch. I swear if Andrei could be half arsed to play more than here and there – he might actually do something. He had one good shot but was very predictable throughout.
Honestly if we had one real game changer on the pitch we might have actually converted a shot.
Too much to expect young Jack to do it all but he was good as was Diaby. Sagna also very good – wanted us to get him the ball more.
Fabianksi has done enough to claim the shirt for another start.
I’d like to see how many of the goals before this game were from the run of play. More than I could remember I am sure.
Sure it could’ve been 4-0 Chelsea, but it could’ve easily been 2-0 Arsenal.
The Mongers won’t like this but if you have to take a positive out of this at all it is the first time in the last 5 meetings I didn’t think we were bullied or played off the pitch by Chelsea. Yeah I know according to everyone I am supposed to be down on the team. We’re down 7 points, in 4th place on the table – and oh wait its only September – did I hit everything?
Oh wait, Wenger is at fault. There I think I got em all.
It’s a fucking tired story.
We’ve done the kool aid and Monger story before – are there any pragmatists out there? Who realize – yeah its a loss, any loss stings but it is the beginning of the season and it is still too early to say anything about it. If its December/January and we are mirred in 4th place I will actually start thinking our shot at anything is done. But you know what its the first weekend in October. I recognize we still have things to do – one of them is stay bloody healthy. The other is to convert the bloody chances we are given. Other than that we have a game in two weeks and we have to start over.
How about it’s the first week in October and it’s our second loss in a row? And the first one was to WBA?
We need to stay healthy? And convert our bloody chances?
You’re right, it’s a fucking tired story.
Those of us who some of you call ‘doomers’ think ourselves quite pragmatic. We know three dropped points to a consistently better team when we see it.
pragmatism |ˈpragməˌtizəm|
noun
1 a pragmatic attitude or policy : ideology was tempered with pragmatism.
2 Philosophy an approach that assesses the truth of meaning of theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application.
If you saw success today, we understand both the meaning of pragmatism and football entirely differently.
“pragmatism |ˈpragməˌtizəm|
noun
1 a pragmatic attitude or policy : ideology was tempered with pragmatism.
2 Philosophy an approach that assesses the truth of meaning of theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application. ”
And what the blooming heck has that word in common with you Doomer :-D
Practical application…not theory…not blind faith…but what happens in, you know, reality.
With all due respect Mr Arsenal your atitude is not pragmatic in the slightest.
Your ideology is pure, unadulterated Mongerism :laugh:
Best you stick with childlike words that you’ve made up then those that have actual, meaningful definitions.
I agree it was a very good match today a shame about the scoreline.
I think we matched Chelsea all the way today. we were beaten by two very special goals and we unlucky not to score a couple goals of our own.
With sucha depleted team and think we should take heart at the performance.
I was particularly impressed with Sagna he was outstanding defensively. Also impressed with Songs work rate throughout. Wilshere held his own against physically stronger opposition and looked dangerous the few times he went forward.
Nasri was unlucky not to score a special goal of his own today, if he’d have managed to get his LF around that ball we could have even been two up after Kosch headed over from about two yards.
They deserved to win because they scored two goals more than us nothing more than that, we were not outplayed by a superior side.
Had we had our spine in there and an on fire Walcott I would presume we could have beaten this Chelsea side judging by that p[erformance.
Just my opinion, looking through red and white coloured glasses of course.
DAG I think the real Arsenal showed up today, just like you asked.
Blackpool beat Liverpool at Anfield, 2-1. Liverpool are in the relegation zone. Hodgson is not going to last much longer…
Quality…youth…promising signs…bright future…wet…lather…rinse…repeat…
Good match today.
Drogba with a great goal, that not many others could score.
A stunning set piece goal.
Arsenal play well, have spells, and can’t finish shit.
same old Arsenal.
same old Chelsea.
same old scoreline.
2-0 to the superior team.
I’ll repeat it for you, for those of you that
don’t remember.
We could play them every day for a week, and we’d be lucky
to win ANY… we did not do ANYTHING different, and neither did Chelsea.
NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
oh. I will say that Fabianski didn’t do a bad job.
nobody really did a bad job. Chelsea are just better than us, every day of the week.
Here’s hoping we can stay in the top 4, because its looking
VERY sketchy at the moment.
have a great day and week.
the future is so bright we have to wear shades at Arsenal. :rainbow:
5 straight losses to Chelsea now. Outscored 13-2, with 3 straight shut out losses. Well done Mr. Wenger, well done.
Sachin, at least Drog didn’t score his customary 80th min goal. So, if we compare to previous seasons, that’s an improvement :)
Sadly that’s not an improvement either. He now has had 3 straight first half goals and 4 of his last 5 goals have been in the first half. That means Arsenal can’t contain him until the 80th minute anymore. I see that as worse off. Before I worried about his post 80th minute strikes, now first half.
Now he has 7 first half goals and 6 second half. His next target would be to score against Arsenal in the opening 5 minutes, something he has not done yet. 8th minute is his earliest strike so far.
New season. New players. Same old result.
Nothing more to say, really.
errr.. more $$$ in the bank :yes:
I noted yesterday that van der vaart has scored as many goals in 4 games as Sicky did in his first full season with Arsenal.
Three.
Yet another leg breaking challenge – this time from City’s de Jong – goes unpunished.
Most pundits give us no chance as Chelsea is only missing Lampard.
I agree with DAG in his write up about Chelsea’s defense. Alex (needs to lose about 20 pounds) and Terry are slow. However, I don’t see them losing the air battles in the penalty area and would much rather see runs to the end line and then cross the ball back to penalty spot or the ‘D’.
Even with some key players missing, we have the talent to take the 3 points. There just needs to be:
– no fluky give away goals
– when we lose possession, everyone fights to win the ball back; pressure them to play laterally and back.
– be patient with our game, make Chelsea chase for the ball – minimize the poor passing turnovers in midfield that haunted us in Sunderland and WBA matches.
– hope the referee does not influence the match outcome.
Tactically, I’m hoping our manager will shuffle the deck and avoid a 4-3-3 for this match. I would line up as:
——–Fabianski———
Sagna –Squil—Kos—-Clichy
——Song—Denilson—–
Nasri—————-Wilshere
——–Arshavin———–
—–Chamakh————-
At the hour mark (if necessary), as a plan B, Rosicky for Wilshere and
Diaby for Arshavin.
I see Arshavin as a defensive liability on the wing, where Jack has a better
work ethic. Chamakh can come back for the ball, either giving us numerical
superiority in midfield or he pulls one of the CB’s out of position, leaving
Arshavin to exploit Alex or Terry.
Anyway, as a manager you must adapt to your player’s strengths and I feel
Arshavin is our wild card, but in the center – not on the wing.
Arsenal Starting XI: Fabianski, Sagna, Squillaci, Koscielny, Clichy, Wilshere, Diaby, Song, Nasri, Chamakh, Arshavin.
Squillaci comes on as Captain.
Subs: Szczesny, Rosicky, Vela, Denilson, Djourou, Eboue, Emmanuel-Thomas.
Hatem Ben Arfa with a suspected leg break. Anyone see the tackle? I haven’t but I wonder whether De Jong did another committed “british” type tackle. If he did, my only regret is that Ben Arfa is a frenchman and a foreigner and not an English up and comer (I feel a bit sick thinking that). On a similar note, I saw Karl Henry’s tackle yesterday and Gomes is very, very lucky to not have his leg snapped in half. I pray that Henry comes down with the plague when we face wolves because I am genuinely afraid of what he will set out to do to our players. If he is fit, YAMAers may have to put together a fund to take out a contract on the guy.
Anyway, off to the pub. Come on gooners!!!!!!
Oh no, I was looking forward to seeing more of my name sake “Arfa”, he looks hot, like he is ready to set the EPL alight, what a shame. Wenger wanted him before he ended up opting for Nasri I hear.
Talking of bad tackles Ozi did you see Karl Henry’s yesterday? disgraceful. Tim had a right go at him on 7am kick off and that evidence he was totally justified.
Something has to be done about these lunatics or they will deprive the PL of the world best players as they will eventually think it not worth the risk.
OOps, Oh so you did, sorry didn’t finish reading the rest of your comment.
7 matches into the EPL season and there are already 4 players who have gone down with broken legs.
‘morning, bitches. That’s right, it’s morning where I am in the good ole’ USA where I’m getting, what I believe, is a well-deserved bit of R&R (sorry nip, ozi, and sirep). 10.5 straight months away from the fam is no joke.
Wenger’s talking a big game today. Maybe he knows something that we don’t. Maybe he’s trying to amp up the boys. I don’t know what it is but with our best striker, best center mid, best central defender, and best keeper all out, I’d settle for a draw against the champions.
Gotta go clay bar a car before the game. Paint on the wife’s car looks like crap. See you guys in the GDC.
Good to hear Josh! Hopefully the footie tonight won’t sour the mood!
Yep, this is the big one a true test of where this team is at.
Without the mass of injuries, Cesc, RvP, Walcott (the on fire one that is) and to some extent Vermaelen, I would fancy us against this Chelsea side, I don’t think they have proven anything yet this season as they have only played one top team so far this season.
However as things stand… who knows… The Hippie in me refuses to predict a defeat so i’ll say a draw.
The EPL is getting weaker by the day. ManU are a pale imitation of themselves without Roo in form. Pool suck. City are yet to gel. Spurs are Spurs. Only Chelsea are strong, but definitely weaker than last year.
Last year itself was a great chance for Arsenal to win the title. This year, it is even better. If we still cannot do it, then there is nothing left to say.
PS: Dortmund vs Bayern is at the same time as Chelsea vs Arsenal.
With no Cesc, Theo etc. we have no chance unless Chelski go walkabout in their heads because we have been such a push-over the past few seasons.
I see them scoring a goal each half and not having to break too much of sweat. We will have spells of possession, but not come close.
Of course, the eternal optimist in me thinks Chamakh will nod in a goal from a set piece and then we’ll hang on. But I can’t really see it with this defence, no yet anyway. And not with a leader in the middle of the field.
Here’s the “test” we’ve all been waiting for. Unfortunately, the games preceding it seem to have foretold the conclusion about this Arsenal side as many here expected. I should enjoy the game. I think, that while we are outmatched, we should keep it tighter than many expect and like Stag, I have no real expectations. We’ll see what happens. Wilshere and Chamakh as well I think are the wild cards. If TheMakh can get goal-side of Terry a couple of times as he tends to do so well, he might be able to create something, although that would require us going through their insanely strong midfield to start with. Nasri is also going to be key althogh with the aattention of Mike and Essien, I don’t expect much.
ps- I missed the last couple of games due to a camping trip and take full responsibility for our West Brom loss (nobody cares bout CL group stages). I’m making up for it by captaining Drogba in both my fantasy teams. Surefire way to keep him quiet. Fingers crossed!
Anyone see the Sunderland/Man United game? It’s like I said after Arsenal’s draw with Sunderland, you’ve got to give them credit for their performance. They are much better than I thought they would be. I predicted us winning 3-0 but they’re simply too strong a side at home.
I saw it and frankly, United looked woeful.
Sunderland had the better of the play for most of the match.
Is SAF losing it – starting Owen and Macheda?
United was TERRIBLE in the first half, as bad as I’ve ever seen them play. They were marginally better in the second half. The result says more about their performance than Sunderland’s.
I think SAF is tired of waiting for Wenger to catch up, so he is going to lower Utd’s standards and then still try to better Wenger :)
You may be onto to something. He has taken to bragging about United’s youth.
amazing, I used the same words to reply to arthur below.
On the contrary Sachin, rather old blue nose has finally arrived at the understanding that Mr Wenger had arrived at a long time ago.
Wenger had said that we will not be able to compete with the likes of Chelsea and of course now Man City in the transfer market. He said we would have to invest in youth (a sound principle I think, just wished Arsene would not be so rigid in his application at times). Alchy Alex has had to concede to this sound principle as we now know his club is in enormous debt and he would be extremely irresponsible to continue to buy players for £20-30 mill.
We don’t we all just embrace the ever prevalent fact…..
Arsene Knows Best ;-)
you may be onto something. Fergie did field a youth team in the F.A Cup against Everton ;)
I wouldn’t read too much into City beating Chelsea as they have the antidote to Chelsea : raw power, pace, and have a player in Carlos Tevez(me and Stag always called for his signing ;) ) that is quite frankly top draw in terms of being very good in every department and capable of taking advantage of any small opportunity.
We have a similar player in Arshavin (though not as good imo), but lack the power and athleticism to neutralise their strength and expose their relative lack of guile. That’s the killer ; Chelsea don’t even have to have craft or guile against us. All they have to do is keep reasonably organised, draw our sting, and play their usual simple, powerful game, and they’ve got the match won, nine times out of ten.
If Wilshere starts we might surprise and keep the match in the balance until the squeaky last ten minutes, but that’s the best we can hope for. Remember, unlike United and Chelsea, we NEVER win these games comfortably, never win by more than one goal, so hanging on for dear life with a one goal lead is probably the best case scenario. Ironically, we were pretty comfortable against Chelsea two years ago when in the lead but more often than not we make it very hard for ourselves.
So when did little Jack Wilshere the upskirt camera boy become Arsenal’s saviour.
Stinks of Theo…. and dare I say Hleb like over-hype to me ;-)
Leave the boy alone, your high expectations and perverse infatuation :inlove: is disturbing :disdain:
You just have a hard on for Mandingo Jay Emmanuel and have always tried to downplay Jack for that reason ;)
It is funny I was accusing you of the same thing earlier or should i say later in the thread. Downplaying others to to boost the last recipient of your man love Jack Wilshere.
So you are a Doom Monger and a hypocrite.
You porfolio gets evermore impressive ;-) .
Hey if JET is Mandingo wouldn’t a man lover like you prefer that to a wee wiley winkle like Wilshere. But I suppose a tight old arse like you would get a better fit from JW . Oh dear I cannot find a smiley for Sodomy :curse: ;-)
I wonder if Drogba’s comments about appreciating Arsenal have something to do with the fact that Wenger wanted to sign him when he was at OM (not sure if money was the reason why it didn’t happen?). But yeah DAG I too wish he shows his appreciation in another way, such as for a change scoring an own goal in the 82nd/84th min with the game tied 1-1. Last season atleast he did the damage in the first half at the Bridge and at the Emirates but still he got his customary post 80 minute strike in the 86th minute at the Emirates.
I keep associating Drogba with his late second half goals, but he is dangerous in any half as he has 6 first half goals and 6 second half goals against Arsenal. Although his 6 second half goals stick longer in my memory as there have been 4 post 80 minute goals (86, 82, 84, 84). Ofcourse, if it is not Drogba, then Malouda and Essien who also have nailed post 80 min goals. There have been many games where Arsenal were trying to contain Chelsea only to give it up late on or were chasing the game only for Chelsea to put the final nail in late on.
Ofcourse, it was not always like that. Arsenal did own Chelsea at a time but the tide really turned Jose onwards. It’s not Roman’s money that made the difference as Arsene would like us to believe although Claudio did get that 2-1 win in the CL but Arsenal had beaten Chelsea 2-1 3 times that season. It is the mentality that Jose forged with his particular set of players.
Arsenal have played Chelsea 15 times from 2004/05 season on and registered only 2 wins, 4 draws but posted 9 losses and have been outscored 12-25. Unfortunately, this Chelsea bunch of players still have a few years left. So if isn’t Drogba, then Malouda, Essein, Anelka & others would look forward to playing Arsenal.
No logic makes sense for this Arsenal team. And now that Lawro has predicted a Chelsea win means Arsenal could get a result. But even if Arsenal do get a result, there could be still potential damage if Wenger and his crew start talking to the media about their character and spirit thereby frustrating fans with a 1-1 draw at home to Bham and a further 2-0 loss away to City.
Agree that Mourinho was the key factor, though Roman’s money helped – It allowed them to buy, most notably, Cech, Essien and Drogba- all massive members of their spine.
yeah the money did help. I should have been clear in saying that despite all the money if the manager was Claudio, then Chelsea would not have been forged into what they became. Ofcourse, I think it was money that lured Jose to Chelsea as well :)
its pretty simple… because there are
NO EXPECTATIONS, at least from many fans.
is there a chance? sure.
but I don’t see it… or much weakness for Chelsea, who
don’t have the injuries we do, thats for sure.
I’ll watch, knowing its highly unlikely we get anything,
and hoping we don’t get embarrassed… AGAIN.
Can’t really be upset if we lose, can you?
I was watching Dortmund vs Sevilla in the Europa League. An English referee sent off the Dortmund LB by giving him a second yellow for diving. I was thinking – would the ref have the balls to give a yellow to Rooney, Gerrard or Drogba for diving in the EPL? I think not. The referee was Mike Dean and I believe he is officiating this game on Sunday.
DAG, are you sure it is Michael Oliver? Never heard of him before.
I think Oliver is a 1st year EPL youngster who is on the fast track. Had a terrible first game. 7am has dean as the ref however.
My bad – that was the refs from last week. Updated the ref crew from this week.