Making a Case For Arsene Wenger
A lot has been written about Arsene Wenger in the last few weeks and rightly so. Gooners via blogs, social media and supported by a rabid pres hungry for any angle are debating the tenure of Arsenal’s greatest manager.
And that’s okay. Based on the results, questioning Wenger’s position has to be acceptable even though some refuse to do so (and that’s okay too.) But for the last week and a half the skew has been decidedly negative (again to some extent rightly so). However, a few things have popped in the last day and half with a different twist. They were pundits and blogs making the case for Arsene Wenger to stay at the club.
Let’s look at the some of easy considerations why removing Arsene doesn’t make sense:
- He is architect of the era of success that makes the current era of un-success look so miserable.
- The winningest coach in Arsenal history.
- Oversaw and managed the only undefeated team in the English top flight since 1889.
- He built a defense on £6 million that went 10 games without conceding in the Champions League.
- His Arsenal squads, during their peak successes, played the game with more style than any other team in English history.
- He changed the way English football clubs think (global scouting networks, training, targeted players no one heard of, introduced more foreign talent to EPL, substantial financial partnerships)*
When discussing the removal of Arsene Wenger the successes listed above have to be considered. It cannot be done in the vaccum of current status it has to be a reviewed in it’s entirety. It’s very easy to get mirred down on the recent results and even the last few years but there is a 15 year career at the club that has to be considered.
There are also more nuanced and probably considered controversial reasons why Arsenal should keep Arsene Wenger.
I was particularly interested in Lee Dixon’s commentary regarding Arsenal after the loss to Olympiacos last night. Next to Gary Neville, I find Lee one of the brightest and most talented pundits in England. He is fair and balanced (without being part of Fox) and he is all too willing to criticize his former club as well.
But he also made a valid argument for retaining Wenger.
Dixon basically breaks Arsene’s tenure into 3 eras – the first was when he came in and completely altered the team (and subsequently the league) through the innovations cited earlier. Through those innovations and the league being where it was at the time, the team prospered and won. The second era occurred when Roman Abramovich took the helm at Chelsea and the influx and influence of oligarchs and oil sheikhs grew. Abramovich threw money everywhere to instantly build a winner and forced everyone to catch up and has resulted in the birth of clubs like the nouveau riche Manchester City, PSG, Malaga, etc.
This is the era we find ourselves in now. And based on the fact that the club hasn’t ever changed its financial model – (prudence was always the way even before Wenger got here), Arsene has had a team that has been competitive inspite of the environment. But Dixon concedes to remain financially prudent and try and unearth talents Arsenal have become a selling club. He goes on to say that unless something changes, that may be the case.
Dixon and Chiles go on further about lack of experience but Lee gets back to the point and the change he forsees is that with FFP coming into play that Wenger may yet enter a third era where the playing field is leveled to the club’s and his mindset and he should be given time to be successful in that era.
Now, I’m no big fan of FFP. It is designed with a fatal flaw that will essentially secure financial power in the top clubs able to secure mega-commercial deals. Smaller clubs that aren’t as globally known as the big clubs will still fail to have the resources to compete. It wreaks of the top five English clubs securing the best TV deals for them (Arsenal being one of them) in the 80s that would be the catalyst for the formation of the Premier League.
However, there does seem to be the residual effect of getting some of the bigger clubs to temper their spending. Manchester City has gone cold turkey on its spending sprees. – much to the chagrin of Roberto Mancini. And before he captured the Champion’s League prize and jettisoned older out of contract talent, Chelsea were also trying to comply (their surplus cash this year is likely a one-off based on proceeds from winning the Champion’s League) Throw in the improved commercial deals (Emirates secured, kit supplier next) and Arsenal do look to be moving once again into an era where we are once again on a level playing field of sorts.
So to sum up Dixon’s comments – it’s fair to criticize Wenger. The teams are his and he has some issues to deal with (big ‘uns) but shouldn’t the man who brought all the success we’ve listed above be given a chance to be successful again with all the pertinent resources?
Sure, you can argue that Wenger has been given the resources to spend and he hasn’t. How does anyone really know what has been told to Wenger. In a great piece on Wenger today, Brian Phillips on Grantland wrote this –
“As outside observers, however knowledgeable we are, have no idea what the Arsenal board has demanded of Wenger. If they’ve made vast sums available for his transfer spending and pleaded with him to build the strongest team in England, then yes, his determination to buy bargain players and stick to his own vision has hurt the club. But what if they’ve ordered him to keep costs down, control wages, and just do the best he can while they get the club’s long-term revenue and ownership structures worked out? “
Brian is right. There is a lot of speculation on what goes on and who’s in control. But unless you are in the room you just don’t know. In my research I’ve yet to find one person who truly knows what directives have been given to Wenger regarding the running of this club.
I want to switch gears to a point of view I’d like to call the My-Lai defense of Wenger. My-Lai being a reference to the Vietnam massacre where the defense was they were just following orders.
In today’s Mirror, writer Oliver Holt wrote a piece about the “Secret Life of Arsene Wenger.” Those of you hoping to find sordid tales of his reported affair with a French female rapper will be disappointed to learn that basically Holt opines that Arsene is doing all he is doing to heroically protect the club.
He is essentially taking all of this on and not criticizing the club and taking the heat when he “doesn’t deserve it.” The background of this argument is set against the backdrop of Robert Altman film “Secret Honor” that says Nixon let himself get eaten up in the Watergate affair to foil the plans of a cabal (I love that word) of business leaders who were set against him.
So Ollie is basically asking to believe that Wenger is presiding over his own demise by being the dutiful soldier and not speaking out against the fact he is given limited resources.
Holt rightly argues that Arsenal aren’t necessarily set against spending money – they have one of the highest wage bills in the league, so it’s ridiculous to argue that Arsene won’t spend money.
The financial model is as I have argued the way it has always been done at Arsenal. We’ve always been prudent in the dealings we’ve had. It’s not new and it is not Wenger’s model. The fact that he has a degree in economics probably only fits in with his ability to believe in the club’s model and help support it.
The fundamental flaw in Holt’s argument however, is why would Wenger preside over his demise. There isn’t anyone to protect unless he believes as some have argued that his removal would sink the club further – especially if as I have argued nothing changes above him. The other problem is that Arsene is paid handsomely to be a company man. For £7.5 per annum I could find it very very easy not to speak out against my employers.
However, the protective nature of Wenger fits in with my profile of him. Wenger gets a lot of stick for how he waxes poetically about the club and players in spite of mounting evidence to the contrary. When everything is negative Wenger through his Arsenal colored glasses paints a picture that amazes even the most ardent of fans.
But I often wonder what do you want the man to say – we sucked, Chamakh’s mousse cost us the game by getting too much grease on it and Gervinho plays worse than a plastic garden gnome standing still? No, publically he is going to defend his players and his club because that is what managers do. And unless you are privy to the dressing room discussions how and what he says in private is another matter.
As I mentioned it is only fitting that given the run of form the team is in, that the manager’s tenure get questioned. But as strong a case that can be made for his removal, a similar strong case can be made for keeping him. As Chris Toronyi of the Arsenal America Podcast told me today – the only thing that is off limits for discussing is the name of the club and the color of the home shirts.
We’ve been beat over the head these last two weeks with all the problems beset Arsenal. And there are many. The manager is just one of them but at the same time his status within the club is without question. I do not think he becomes another Cloughie. As sunken as he looks at times, you just don’t preside over those achievements listed above or keep Arsenal in the Champion’s League when everything seems stacked against you if you aren’t a good manager.
There is a case against Wenger and there is a case for Wenger.
Ed Note: comments are welcome. As always. But if it resorts to foul claims, idiotic language and not basically what we would call a tempered well thought out response (either pro or con) don’t waste your time. We’ve all seen ‘em before and they are tiresome
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however good or bad the game is the hands of a team coach. Wenger could not compete with the modern football and it affects a few bad games this year, which resulted in empty title. however arsenal is not a small team which is sad as the other team is always striving to avoid relegation, the arsenal is a great team that has a name in the world, with huge assets, many fans around the world, and the arsenal also did little to pay transfer in recent years. much more competitive squad arsenal Wenger unfortunately only poor in giving tactics, also less able to build mental pemainnnya, and also did not want to risk buying a sloppy player, but players like that are typical of the mentality of steel players. Wenger obtaining and maintaining the ability of good players but often injured, it’s very harmful. despite it all arsenal boards are also guilty of not understanding the ball, and how could not love arsenalda to leave arsenal in these conditions. thanks for his memory was invincible and all of Wenger, but I have to say .. Wenger’s time away from the arsenal. do or do nothing .. in order to achieve success we have to go through the misery. so enough misery and we have to recruit a new coach next season, and hopefully not pep, because it will make the game very boring arsenal. somehow also a football team without a title is not football ..
One can easily understand the lowering of ambitions at our club when you take into account the philosophy of the current management.
Tom Fox, chief commercial officer
“Arsenal Football Club is not only about winning,” he said. “We have a large and engaged fan-base around the world who want to feel as if they belong to the club, and want to feel proud to belong to the club. That’s my primary business.”
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/182600.html
Arsene Wenger
“The club is in fantastic shape”.
Ivan Gazidis
“Self sustainable model”, “Self sustainable model”, “Self sustainable model”
Only three words in his vocabulary.
Stan Kroenke
“———————-“, “——————”
Ooops, I forgot, he is a wealthy, deaf, mute.
Phill Hill Woods
“Those fans are silly”
So, are we destined to become the Denver Nuggets of football, an under achieving, sell your best players, mid table, profitable team?
When all is said and done, we can look at the numbers and guess what they mean, but only the inner circle knows the real plan, why profits are held and what the strategy is for 2014 and beyond. All signs and statements lead to the assumption that they believe FFP, FA salary cap, new commercial deals and homegrown player development will put them in with any club in the world in two years (or beginning in two years…). So, it boils down to whether you trust what Arsene and Ivan say (not concerned about Fox wanting to grow the business, that’s his job and he’s doing it well). I choose to trust them, because they seem to genuinely care for the long-term health of the club, as do I, and that has to include success on the pitch, if only from the perspective of their revenue predictions.
You can compare us up to United or down to Everton, but there is no real comparison. We don’t bring in as much off the pitch as the former, and we have far more to deal with on it than the latter.
The closest alternate path is Chelsea/Liverpool, pumping cash into the team, overspending on shit players (keep in mind Carroll/Downing/Torres when discussing Gervinho’s fee), hiring managers with no ability beyond the first XI, finishing outside the top 4 regularly, and, on the off chance they win the CL or a cup, they don’t even enjoy it because the club is still in shambles.
It’s no different than the short term vs long term situation that brought ruin upon our global financial system, and I think we all know which side is sitting pretty after the fall.
I’ll take Arsene and our core of long-term players—Wilshere, TV, Jenks, Ox, Shezney, Kos—and support them even if we finish bottom of the table (we won’t).
Sorry, caribkid, that wasn’t meant as a direct reply to you. Just a general throwing-up-of-the-hands.
Not a problem PM, I don’t take those things personally and we are merely on here to voice our opinions.
My biggest problem is with Wenger as he has not made the best use of the money handed to him. Seeing that our payroll has more than doubled since we moved to the Emirates, it’s obvious he has spent money. But, when I see him selling Song when we don’t have a backup and no need to do so, buying average players and putting them on huge wages so we can’t sell them, yet sell our best players year after year, it truly pisses me off. Paying big bucks for future potential which mostly don’t materialize, giving multi-year contracts to Squillaci and Santos but playing hard ball with Sagna does raise my ire and lead me to question his managerial ability rather than his desire and intent.
You seem to have a problem with understanding the situation rather than what Wenger has done.
The simple fact is that if you look at the funds spent by AW since he took over as manager, the true picture is that, in fact, he hasnt actually spent any funds on players (his sales match his purchases) all he has done is paid players the going rate (or in fact slightly below the going rate).
5 years ago, the top wage in the Prem was £ 125K, today it is £ 240K (double). The top wage at Arsenal was circa £ 75K, now an average player gets £ 60K and a player like Walcott wants £ 100K when 5 years ago, he would only have got £ 30K.
If AW was to refuse to increase the wages of his players, we would have nobody of any note playing for us, they would all be elsewhere.
As to selling Song, we all have opinions, but, in all honesty, I never thought Song was the answer.
And the idea that we buy players and put them on large salaries is designed to keep them, if a player has a good season, they are seen as one of our best players but they are the ones who attract attention, if they don’t have a good season, they are seen as one of our not so good players and they don’t attract attention, so no matter what any manager does its going to be wrong – its almost a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation – you can never win with someone with that kind of attitude.
We cannot isolate out one or 2 players and pay them vastly greater salary than the rest, we just end up a one star team like Aston Villa or Fulham, with 1 high quality player and the rest plodders.
Nobody is playing hard ball with Sagna – he is 30 and will be 31 when he renews his contract. Like any other player reaching 31, the Arsenal policy is to offer a 1 year extension. Do we change the policy just to suit Sagna ? – why ?
He may sign a 4 year contract, have an injury in the first year and never play again. Its much more of a gamble giving a 31 year old a 3 year contract than giving a 27 year old a 4 year contract.
As to Santos – he is coming back from a serious injury and still isnt fully fit & Squillaci was probably a mistake (all managers make them) and hasnt contributed like expected and he will go when his contract expires. No manager is immune form signing the wrong player.
See my reply to Stag133 below – it makes me laugh that everyone expects the board to say something that is untrue just because we are not winning trophies.
You may not like the quotes above but the point is that they are all true.
Tom Fox – spot on !!!!
AW – correct !!!!!
IG – correct !!!!!
Hill Wood – correct !!!!!
Its almost like you think we had a right to win trophies, we dont !!!!!!
And it is wrong to say that the people saying what they are saying are not concerned and worried about not winning trophies. The club is stable financially and is able to continue for the foreseeable future, what is wrong in saying that.
But if we are not winning trophies, how best to respond to any question – focus on the positives, dont get bogged down with the negatives. Thats all they are doing.
Thats all any club does !!!!!
A little late entering into the fray here but I think I will nonetheless….
For me, Arsene IS the club (for better or worse) and that’s what makes it a thrill to watch. I would love for the story to come full circle and for the club and the manager and some of the players who’ve been around a bit (not many these days….) to find redemption with the gaunt grey-haired genius lifting a major trophy to a stadium of adoring and grateful fans…..
Unfortunately, I live in the real world (where dreams don’t come true)…..Thus, I fear, in Arsene We Trust….with the “T” being all too silent…..
Unlike the Hindenburg (“oh the humanity”) the demise is slow and there still remains (I think) a hope that we get up and win our (CL) relegation battle. It’s not enough, of course, but then Arsene could delegate and (maybe continue to) right the (bloated, massive) ship. As it is, the winds seem too strong for one man to suddenly start making all the right moves.
The “Vision” doesn’t seem particularly wrong and being a “self-sufficient” (selling) club which offers good (longer, mid-range) contracts seems OK (to me). Still, when you start to do CBA (cost/benefit analysis) on the players brought in vs the ones who’ve left it is painfully obvious that the magician has lost his wand. Instead of stealing French and francophone talent and getting tremendous on-field production, we now pay top Pound/Euro/Dollar for a mish-mash of veterans who are distinctly 2nd tier (matching our wage structure) and some who cannot rise to that level or contribute (next to) nothing. Park-er-ing over the Chamakhs, I think, some people call it. Likewise, the move to heavy investment in British talent is a reversal of the manager’s early days but clearly where we’re headed. Given the silly money across town or in the greater Manchester Area, these players, if they actually produce, will have to move on, unless we blow out the salary structure. All told, unless we’re moving to a 6 and 5 rule, it doesn’t really make sense…..(to me, again)….
So, if recruitment drops from a 9 to a 3 or 4 (who was the last purchase to truly become world class?) then it comes down to getting the most from the squad you have: man-management, building a “collective,” tactical prowess, etc. Do we squeeze more points out of the squads we have or visa versa. We managed last season on the chippy passes and volleyed shots of Song and RVP. Where will it come from now? Is there anyone in the current squad who will do what is needed to get the points when we need them? We’ll see, starting tomorrow vs WBA…..
For me then, AW is down to another 3 or 4 for his work with the team. If you add that to the work in the boardroom: setting policy (“the Vision,”) and bringing in a “team” (owner, board, CEO, Commercial Dept, etc.) to manage the finances, etc., what do we see? Well, that’s probably even more complicated and better left to the Swiss Ramble and others who want to probe deeper. Long term I think we look good, but like the DAG says, it’s a bit knife thin at the moment. Again another 3 or 4 is where I think AW rates.
Put it all together and Arsene is no worse than a 9 and as high as a 12—on a scale which tops out at 10!!!! If you’ve read this far (thanks!) I think you can see the point I’m making: the club is one man (and perhaps a flawed one at that) trying to do (WAY) too much. It makes for great theater (theatre?) and AW actually reminds me of Shakespeare more and more. Unfortunately, while I read (and enjoyed) many of the comedies and romances, the works I really know (and see as comparable) are the tragedies. Hamlet, Macbeth, Othello, Lear…. Where does Wenger fit in?
I still hold out Hope (note the Capital….) for our central character and I can still dream, but I could use a more pleasurable waking moment (or three) sooner rather than later….
why not go after Pep G. or Jose Mo…
Wenger makes a fortune… so salary isn’t a problem.
If you want to attract top players, you need a top manager…
the CULTURE at the club has to change.
Are you actually reading the comments before leaving a comment.
Dont make me laugh with the suggestions;
Pep would go from managing Barca (the 2nd biggest earners in the world) to managing Arsenal (just scrape into the top 10), when he can have his pick.
Mourhino has only ever chased the money clubs since he left Porto.
We have a top manager – its not a matter of salary – if Mourhino is saying that he will buy say Cristiano Ronaldo for £ 100m and pay him £ 250K pw – Man City will come along with £ 120m & £ 300K pw & the money will say everything, Mourhino will have as much chance as Wenger (i.e. none) until FP comes in.
Thats the problem with football today – its always about the money – the players don’t care – its all the agents & they are only in it for the money.
GREAT sports teams/franchises are trying to WIN trophies, championships, titles… their ultimate goal is to do so, NOT make a fortune.
If they can WIN and make a profit, that’s wonderful. If they can win and break even, thats fantastic…
But MAKING A PROFIT is not what I am interested in, as a supporter of a professional sports team… in any league, in any country.
You really shouldn’t be a sports owner, if you are trying to get RICHER by owning a team.
I laugh at these ‘Arsenal make big deal about profit’ cynics.
What do you expect out of the board.
If Arsenal was winning trophies they wouldn’t be saying what they are saying now, they would be focussing on the trophies.
But we are not winning trophies, so if someone says to the board, we are not winning trophies how do you expect them to respond;
‘Yeah guys – here we are – useless bunch of space wasters’
Of course not, they are going to point to their successes which, at the moment are financial.
What do you honestly expect out of them – to tell everyone that they are just rubbish and cannot do their job, when the reality is that they are in fact quite good AT WHAT THEY DO FOR THE CLUB, BUT WHAT THEY DO FOR THE CLUB IS NOT ON THE FOOTBALL SIDE.
The only reason we get the ‘profit’ noises is because thats the only success the board can point to and its not the fault of the money men that we are not competing.
so you are saying the club are LYING about what a great financial situation we are in, and that the positive financial reports are “fudged”?
Arsenal.
The real issue is that nobody seems to fully appreciate the changes in football that have led to where we are now.
Everyone looks on the teams that AW produced in the late 1990’s & early 2000’s and tries to compare the current team and squad with those teams. It is unfair to do this. If we go back to that period then the following can be seen;
Italy, which had the powerhouse of European football was on its way down from that lofty height. There were major fraud issues and Italian clubs had run out of money and were beginning to falter.
Spain was not yet the powerhouse it is today in football terms, especially Barca which, although being a decent team, was not what it is today. Even RM was not at the height it is today, both having been pushed by the other to greater glory recently.
Germany was in not the force it is today and England was the powerhouse of world football – virtually every decent player wanted to play in England.
At that time, there was no Chelsea or Manchester City buying power, there were 3 clubs with the power to buy players – Manchester United (at the time the biggest club in the world), Arsenal & Liverpool. Liverpool were on the way down, with owners who were looking to sell out. This left the competition between Arsenal and Manchester United.
Manchester United had the pedigree of bringing through English/British players and buying the best English players and generally only bought a smattering of foreign players to go with their British backbone, whilst Arsenal went entirely foreign with their purchases under AW and Arsenal had the choice of foreign players to buy.
Man Utd also outspent the rest of the Premiership put together year on year, hence their success in that era. The only club challenging them was Arsenal who, although being vastly outspent, managed to put together squads of very decent players, along with a small amount of world class players. At one stage, Arsenal had arguable the two best players in the world, Henry & Bergkamp in tandem.
Arsenal was a buying club, not a selling club.
This carried on until around 2002. Then it all changed.
Firstly, Barca started to rise again as a force, buying a number of players of high quality and forcing RM to do likewise. This was the beginning of the change for Arsenal.
Then in 2003, along came Abramovitch, with all his hundreds of millions, buying every player he could possibly buy. Previously, those players would have gone to Arsenal, but now they were at Chelsea instead. Think of what Arsenal could have achieved with the likes of Drogba, Malouda, Essien, Cech, Cole etc., if these players had become available prior to Abramovitch, all these players would probably have gone to Arsenal.
Unlike Man Utd, Arsenal could not compete with that spending power.
Latterly, we have also seen the hundreds of millions brought into Manchester City and again Arsenal cannot compete. What that has also meant that as there are now far more clubs vying for decent players, the pool of player talent has probably not got that much bigger than it was 10 years ago, it is just that there are far more clubs at the table with buying power than there ever was.
AW would never work for a Sugar Daddy like Abramovitch, the interference would be unacceptable to him, so it was either a case of AW or Sugar Daddy, never both.
Arsenal, without a Sugar Daddy never had the funds to compete with the others mentioned above. When you look at the spending over the past 5 years of Man U, Man C, Chelsea etc., you look at each club having spent over £ 300m each on players alone and in the case of Man C , its £ 750m. Arsenal, having spent a net of MINUS £ 30m over the past 5 years have £ 140m in the bank, its obvious as a club we never had 1/5th of the £ 750m that Man C had and when you consider that Chelsea spent almost half our total spend over 5 years on 1 player (Torres) it really hits home where the problem is. Yes it can be said Chelsea and Man C started from a lower base, but it can never be said that they were £ 600m of talent behind us, the vast majority of their spend has been to overtake us in terms of players, not to catch us up and, to be frank, they are not that much ahead of us that £ 600m should have realised.
To his credit AW saw all this coming and changed his philosophy. He realised that we, as a club, could not compete with the likes of Chelsea, Man U, Man C, Barca, Real , PSG et al, in buying power. The choice was to go along the secondary club route (like Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, Aston Villa etc.) of buying second rate players and mixing them with young talent to try and make a team (ultimately unsuccessful) or to change our philosophy entirely, spend as little as possible, bring through our young talent as much as we can, whilst adding the odd buy each season, selling players for inflated prices when bigger spending clubs come calling and wait until Fair Play arrived and curtailed the spending power of the Sugar Daddys. It now seems that all those second rate clubs are now taking the AW route 5 years after he did it first.
AW chose the latter route so that, when FP did arrive, we would be the club with the money to spend and we haven’t already wasted it all on second rate players at inflated prices. It would have taken a miracle (a substantial number of talented young players all wanting to stay at the club long term) for this philosophy to have reaped the kind of rewards that had occurred previously and it was a matter of treading water and trying to win the remaining baubles whilst waiting for FP to hit home. Ultimately, it has been unsuccessful in terms of winning trophies but what it has done is set up our club to be at the front of the buying table when FP comes in and means that Man C can no longer spend 120% of its total turnover on wages and Chelsea, without their Champions League money, cannot continue to spend 90% of theirs.
It was a case of preparing for the future whilst other clubs spent for the present, knowing that the present may not produce the wanted fruits but understanding that other clubs spending their money would probably not produce the wanted fruits either. If you look at all the spending that has occurred at say, Liverpool or Aston Villa or even at Tottenham who have mimicked our policy, none of them have had Champions League football for 1/10th of the number of years we have had recently.
And across this period, Arsenal have built a stadium and infrastructure that is the envy of the world. We have a largest match by match income in the world from our stadium, this is the legacy of AW to Arsenal, that our future is extremely rosy and we don’t have to rely on Sugar Daddys to actually be in existence. If Abramovitch or the UAE royal family walked away, would those clubs just die a slow and painful death, to be resurrected in some minor form such as Wimbledon FC.
Also, what say would Man C fans have if say, the UAE Royal family decided to relocate the club to Abu Dhabi or Chelsea fans if Abramovitch wants to move to Moscow ?
Whereas clubs like PSG, Man C & Chelsea were all bought with the owners knowing they would never get back what they put in we, like Man U, were bought as investments, where the money put in would be recovered and more. That in itself is a statement of security and stability and, furthermore, if it came to the time when Man U no longer won the trophies they do, would the same apply to them, I am not so sure. With Arsenal there is no question of that.
If you look at all the clubs who have won major trophies recently (Premiership & Champions League) all of them have had vastly greater spending power than Arsenal and have used that spending power to create squads that could win the league. Arsenal haven’t been able to do that because of a lack of spending power.
Will Fair Play work – who knows, but the likelihood is that it will. The clubs that are the backbone of UEFA and FIFA, the Barca, Real Madrid, Man U, Bayern, Milans etc. all don’t want the upstarts from SW5 & Eastlands to spoil their party, and Fair Play will be their way of dealing with these upstarts.
So to understand where Arsenal are today, is a bigger picture than just AW, or Arsenal itself, one has to look at the football world as a whole top understand the approach in its true form.
So our ‘paltry’ (yes I know its funny to call £ 140m paltry in today’s world) £ 140m could never compete whilst there was unlimited cheque books being opened and used elsewhere, we had to wait until FP.
What makes the whole argument even more of an unusual situation is that AW has spent net less than David Moyes at Everton. Moyes is seen as a genius, able to produce teams that challenge the best but are never seen as Premiership Champion material. Everton still play in their decrepit stadium, nobody wants to buy them (they have been available to buy for years) and they have very little International support or Stature and have played in the Champions League for 1 season. Yes they have a good team but somehow, with their fantastic manager and their seemingly greater spending power than Arsenal, they haven’t managed to either finish above Arsenal or play in the Champions League for more than 1 season and have precisely NO Premiership titles.
In contrast, AW has managed a club which has moved to one of the best, most advanced and desirable stadiums in the world, we are a club of International Stature and instead of there being a ‘plucky Everton’ view of us, it is seen as somewhat a let down if we don’t look like we are challenging for the Premiership, we play in the Champions League season after season, have had 2 ‘Doubles’, 1 other Premiership crown and gone unbeaten for a season and all of this on a net spend which is below Everton (and Wolverhampton Wanderers for that matter). Why AW isn’t seen a the genius’ genius is beyond me.
So if everyone understands what we are and where we are, it becomes a clearer picture. Yes there will be times when it doesn’t quite work the way it should but lets all understand, if we compare Arsenal with say Man C, Chelsea or Man U, then we are deluding ourselves in the current financial status. However, if we compare ourselves to everyone else, since AW has been manager of Arsenal, Arsenal have won 3 Premiership Championships, played in 15 seasons of Champions League and got to the final of the Champions League, whilst every single other club PUT TOGETHER apart from Chelsea, Man C & Man U have won 1 Premiership between them and played a total of 15 seasons in the Champions League.
The above says everything that needs to be said about what AW has achieved and why he should remain manager despite the idiotic nonsense that is spouted by Adrian Durham every week just to get a reaction.
What’s Everton’s wage bill?
71% of their total income
Ours is 49%
Just to be clear about Arsenal’s profits – the Emirates deal has given them very little clout in terms of cash flow. What gives Arsenal it’s profit is the sale of its player.
In fact the 2011/2012 statements show that without the sale of Fabregas and Nasri Arsenal would’ve been operating at a loss.
I’m no financial expert but when you read the following from Swiss Ramble – the financial picture at Arsenal isn’t as rosy as all would like to think and is on a persilously thin knife edge.
http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2012/10/arsenal-song-remains-same.html
I love people who talk about finances but really don’t understand what they are talking about in reality.
The club puts a provision in its books for ‘Player Amortisation’ and last year’s provision was £ 36.8m. What this does is it reduces the value that the club puts on its players. So when the club sells a player, it makes more profit on that player than it would have done without this ‘amortisation’.
So player profit is directly linked to player amortisation, if you set player profit against player amortisation, you get the true effect.
Removing player amortisation, the club made £ 20.5m profit, plus another £ 28.7m true profit on sale of players.
That doesn’t seem to be financially unviable and considering that the club has made a profit from its sales of players over the past 5 years of £ 178m AFTER accounting for player amortisation, I think you can legitimately say that player amortisation really doesn’t impact on the club’s finances as we always seem to be able to produce a situation where we sell our players as a whole for far more than we bought them.
As an example of this, RVP’s purchase value has been amortised every year and yet he was sold for £ 17m more than he cost, therefore that amortisation was really irrelevant.
The problem with the ‘case for Wenger’ is that it is premised on a mysterious and unproven conspiracy theory whereby the noble Wenger is covering up for an Owner/Board who are pretending that there is money when there isn’t. For this to be true…
– there is a collusion of epic proportions between Wenger and all the owners and all Board members – meaning they’re all publicly lying, or allowing a lie to be perpetuated in the clubs name. Sound plausible?
– the published financial statements that are subject to audit and legal conventions are false which is a criminal offence. Sound plausible?
It’s another fanciful attempt to maintain the halo that surrounds Wenger and to assuage the troubled minds of the many supporters who still follow Wenger’s Arsenal and not Arsenal FC. Don’t be surprised, humanity has an incredible capacity to weave its own stories in the face of overwhelming evidence, some folk even today dispute the fact of the holocaust, others deny the atrocities in the Balkans. Many go to their graves stubbornly believing a lie rather than face a disturbing truth.
I lost my attachment to Wenger some time ago. It was painful and disappointing at the time to accept that a manager who proved to be so very clever in shaping Arsenal post-Graham was now struggling to keep up with the changing landscape. I now accept that Wenger is constrained not by external financial realities but by his very own weaknesses and traits of excess. Anyway, we’ve been through all that…
The case for Wenger also conveniently sidesteps the myriad recurring silly decisions around recruitment, remuneration, strategy, perseverance with crocks, etc. It’s all swept under the rug of stadium/financial constraints.
Ponder this, during the glory years we were happy to (superficially) laud Wenger as a legend capable of knitting together a team that delivered titles and doubles – he alone as manager got the praise for this strategic brlliiance. And yet we now want to excuse our constant failure to deliver even a single Carling Cup or FA Cup. How does that work? I mean seriously, one can argue we might not be able to win the league or the CL against financially doped opponents but we can’t even compete for a domestic cup? Makes zero sense to me.
The contrary thinker Nassim Taleb suggests a lot of success in life has a large dolop of ‘luck’, about being in the right place at the right time. Being a benefactor of good fortune and fortuitous combinations of events is rather more precient than we like to think rather than the existence of genius that sets one apart. The longer Wenger’s desert years continue the more you have to think Taleb has a point. I now believe 100%, that without George Graham’s back 5 the Wenger glory years would not have happened at all.
Cool, compare this to holocaust deniers, nice argument.
It’s actually plenty plausible; they don’t want to denigrate the brand or hurt the club. What would it seem like if teams come out and say ‘We have no money and not much hope guys’. I’m sure everyone would be pleased. Even teams who are in serious trouble (Rangers, Prtsmouth) try to keep it in house til the last moment.
Ah yes, then the turnover argument. I know comparing household accounts to bigger examples can sometimes be overly simplistic but here I think it makes sense. The existence of the club, without financial difficulty or harassment, is very precious. If you have a massive debt hanging over you and you are a custodian of something this precious you have to be prudent. It’s no good saying ‘we’ve got money now, lets spend it!’ How dumb is that notion with massive debts? If you have a massive debt, do you use your wages frivolously? Or do you batten down the hatches, at least for a while?
I think paying the likes of Ramsey, Chamakh, Squillaci Denilson, Bendtner, Diaby, and other players around 60-70K a week – and disturbingly bloating our wage bill in the process – is the very defination of frivolous.
Great points Kiwi.
How can Wenger see any future in Ramsey, Gervinho?
How did Arsenal end up with such dead losses as Chamakh,bendtner, Denilson,squillaci, fabrianski,mannone santos,etc or start the season relying on Diaby and cesney?
This is a rebuttal to all the people who call Stagg and other Arsene out adherents “ignorant”:
Arsenal has no money to spend due to new stadium
Fact: Adding 20,000 seats, raising prices on all others and creating new luxury and corporate boxes far exceeded the small, long term loan repayment required annually. Yes, we had more debt, but our cash flow was significantly increased. David Dein made that statement while he was still a Board member and if you take the time to do what I did, just go to the financial reports for the 2 years previous to moving and the two years after. They are still available online.
Fact: Add the 100 + Million net we received from the RE developments and the cash flow is even more improved.
Fact: Arsenal revenue has moved us from 9 to 10, depending on who you read, pre Emirates to 4th in the world as of today.
Fact: Wage bill has more than doubled since moving to the Emirates. Obviously, cash is needed to double the wage bill since we did not borrow any money.
Fact: We have almost 200 mill in cash reserves sitting in the bank.
Fact: We are paying approximately 25% of all our annual profits to Her Majesty’s revenue service.
If you can factually disprove the above “facts”, I promise to wear my dunce cap and sit in the corner for the next millennium.
It’s not just about money, it’s about how the money was spent. We all know we currently have many overpaid, under performing players on the payroll who are either out on loan (with us paying most and in some cases, all their salaries), players in the squad who are not performing relative to their inflated salaries, or those who are in the squad and not even playing.
Here’s the list guys: Denilson, Galindo, Campbell, Wellington Silva, Myachi, Frimpong, Chamakh, Arshavin, Squillacci, Gervinho, Santos, Park, Bendtner and I’m sure I forgot a few. It was only this year we got out of the contracts for Vela, Almunia and Botellho.
Now, who put us in this mess, especially since we do not have a Director of Football Operations?
I will leave the answer up to all you well read, intelligent blokes who deem people like me to be “ignorant..
A teaser for the brilliant football economists commenting here.
Arsenal Financial Report 2006-2007
http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/oct_11/gun__1318505694_Arsenal_Annual_Report_May_2007.pdf
Partial statement by PHW:
“With a capacity of 60,355 seats, we are now
able to accommodate some 22,000 more fans
for every game in state-of-the-art facilities.
The average attendendance at Emirates
Stadium was more than 59,900 producing
match day revenue of some £3.1 million per
game. This is not just great news for our loyal
supporters, but also for the Club as a whole,
as total match day revenues have more than
doubled to in excess of £90 million, helping
Group turnover to grow from £137 million in
2006 to £201 million this year.”
Another teaser from the same financial report.
“reduced our annual debt
service cost from some £32 million to
£20 million per annum.”
What happens to the £45m profit from 2010-11, for instance, if we don’t qualify for CL and progress to group stages as we have? It’s wiped out. And then would we not have to overspend to attract and keep players as Liverpool and Spuds do now? Without the insurance of owner investment, the club has to keep money in the bank to make sure it can clear losses in worst case scenario, does it not? As a business run to break even, they also must take into account the overall economy and declines in revenue that may result from a recession. The new commercial deals would appear to be the first time that that will not be the case since the stadium was built no? It doesn’t excuse poor signings but all teams have those. The teams above us have just been able to write them off. I could be completely wrong on the economics. It just seems unreasonable to think Wenger would put himself through such obvious anguish over the last few years on principle.
Let’s say the new Emirates deal is retroactive and the 2010-11 profit is then £80m. Do you not think we get Mata and Cahill? Maybe we keep Nasri and Clichy? With that additional £35m available, wouldn’t it have been feasible to close the gap that appeared when Chelsea and City saw our position?
It’s all hindsight and conjecture, of course, but logic would tell me that even the most frugal shareholders would see that a football club is like a farm that must be reseeded every year in order to survive and harvest.
You are totally missing the point my man. By moving to the Emirates we created a lot more cash flow (cash in hand). By more than doubling the wage bill in 6 years means we have invested a lot more money in the team.
Problem is we invested it poorly.
Forget about spending more money. We have spent a lot more money, just not on the right players and coaches. In theory, if we had spent 11 Mill more we could have had the same team Manu has right now. If we spent that 11 mill wisely, instead of 200 mill in the bank account we would have 189 mill.
Would you rather have 200 mill in the bank and be fighting for 10th spot in the BPL 0r 189 Mill and be in first place?
Just saying!!!!!!!!
If Arsenal lose to WBA,I expect Wenger to say this.He would probably dwell on the fact the gunners just spent a fraction of what Chelsea did.The gunners are still in the ko stages.
To be brutally frank,I can’t for the life of me see them winning the cl. A loss in the final will be too painful to stomach,not that I expect to advance to the qf.
When you watch CL football you realise what a poorly coached team we are. Plus, the lack of commitment when defending is deplorable. You see Chellini and Buffon celebrating a block for a corner, a Dortmund defender pumping his fist when a forward made a sliding tackle. We aint got that. Tony Adams and his like seem so far away now.
Noticed that too. If you remember the first four or five matches before the international break, the players were doing that, though. Truly incomprehensible how and why the camaraderie was lost. But you’re right, it’s the coaching staff who must fix it, especially when the starting XI have only known each other for a couple of disappointing months. Arsenal also sorely miss an experience and vocal leader who leads not only by example but by holding teammates accountable during matches and on the training pitch. Jack? But he’s 20 and not in top form. As much as it hurts to say, it’s why the Lampard idea isn’t totally repulsive.
The ongoing criticism of Arsene’s eye for talent (and our scouting network) lately is so blatantly ignorant that it’s hard to take seriously. People only bring up the players who support that argument instead of considering the whole of our recent transfer activity. Yes, Gervinho and Santos and Squillaci. But what about the players we were in for whose fees and wages took them elsewhere or nowhere? Mata, Hazard, Gotze, Cahill, Jones, who knows who else. Plus, recent signings who’ve recently left on big fees and higher wages like Nasri, Song et al. Not to mention the ones we did get in on affordable fees and wages like Ox, Jenks, Santi, Eisfeld et al. Anyone with even the slightest bit of perspective can see that we are in for the best players in the world until the big money clubs get wind of it and take them. That’s fair business, and I wish it weren’t so, but clearly this is a squad built from players on Arsene’s secondary if not tertiary wish list because of our financial restrictions.
With unlimited funds all of the above players are Gunners along with RVP and Clichy and even Cesc probably stays as we’d be challenging for all silverware every year playing dazzling technical football. Fantasy land.
If only on that evidence it’s fair to give Arsene the benefit of building a better squad with the new commercial income.
At this point, there really in no argument FOR Wenger…
how many years in a row with Arsenal getting progressively worse, and further away from winning the league do we have to go through…
He is PART of the problem (not “the” problem)… he’s NOT part of the solution…
Thank you for your time here Arsene. Good Luck. PSG needs you.
The un-truth that we don’t have the finances to compete, and that currently the stadium is a drain on finances is absolute NON-SENSE. It’s completely BS.
Bold claim. Evidence?
as nicely noted above by CaribKid…
please, read.
This is NOT new. This has been re-hashed for the past few years.
The Stadium debt has absolutely NOTHING to do with Arsenal SELLING ITS BEST PLAYERS every f’n season… and NOT buying replacements.
We have made massive profits every season since the Emirates came into being.
You can believe whatever you like. I’m not going to change your mind. The FACTS are above, they are on the internet, easily found if you look.
You can continue to hold onto this notion that little old Arsenal can’t compete with the big teams, because of the new stadium… go for it… and Wenger is god, he can’t be questioned… there is nobody that can do what he has (which is what, no trophies for going on 8 years?)…
Carry On… the Board and Management at the club LOVE you folks who refuse to see the reality… as long as they can continue to get people to pay the highest ticket prices in Europe, to see a team who hasn’t won shit in 8 years… and still show up despite the club making big profits, and regularly selling its best players (now to rivals in the league)…. the club will continue to operate this way forever!
why wouldn’t they?
you keep buying what they’re selling… they’ll keep selling it to you.
‘Big’ profits don’t mean much when you have a massive debt. It’s nice of you to become super annoyed but that doesn’t change the fact that what you believe is somewhat ridiculous. Before the stadium, Wenger balanced his transfer policy but had no qualms about spending money when he needed to. Then the stadium move and the policy changes to a more frugal one. What’s the variable? Is it a mystical change in Wenger’s philosophy that no one has evidence for or is it a potentially club-breaking debt? Think about it for a bit then spew whatever vitriol you like.
At this point, you stag133, without evidence, write absolute NON-SENSE. It’s completely BS without any argument FOR yourself….
How many times over the years has Arsenals long term plans, especially in view of the stadium build, benefactor clubs, and FFP, have been explained for you to not be getting it. You are PART of the problem (not “the” problem)… you are NOT part of the solution…
Thank you for your time here stag133. Good Luck. clubs like PSG and MC needs you.
And Arsene Said… fantastic.
whatever he says, you are definitely buying it… 4th place is a trophy? sure…
You can bum smooch Arsene forever…
but there are more and more supporters who are NOT going to continue to blindly follow the club… spending our hard earned cash to watch this shit… while the club profits of its supporters.
Sorry.
Arsene has been wonderful, but he stopped being wonderful about 3 or 4 years ago.
It’s over.
The club was a great club before him, and we will go on long after he’s gone… believe me…
stag133,
I’am not buying or selling anything. My previous post is not pro/anti Wenger.
I’ll repeat the gist of my previous post, ‘How many times over the years has Arsenals long term plans, especially in view of the stadium build, benefactor clubs, and FFP, have been explained for you to not be getting it.’
Here is a thought stag133, Wenger, rightly or wrongly, is supporting the CLUBS POLICY to ensure that the great club he joined and greatly progressed will go on long after he’s gone… So where exactly does your anger lie? Is it with Wenger, the Club or both?. Keep in mind two facts –
‘It’s very easy to get mired down on the recent results and even the last few years but there is a 15 year career at the club that has to be considered.’
‘The club was a great club before him, and we will go on long after he’s gone with great prospects due to the efforts put in to date.
Judging by your previous post I’d say you will find it difficult to get your head round this.
Wenger is 15th in the league in terms of net spend. That’s really incredible, he’s kept the club competitive despite financial constraints. It’s obvious the club don’t have the money they say thy do, it beggars belief that the money is available and isn’t spent. The stadium move is a massive drain on our resources.
i no need to explain much about current arsenal squad. i dont know why wenger allow ramsey to start the game. if ramsey play its like arsenal(10 man) vs (12 man) opponent. he was in the opponent. arsenal fans all around why dont notice this guy. i also wondering why people in England backing this guy. its because he is a British nationality?
I’ve been saying for years now that we can’t believe any public statements made by the board, we have to make our judgements from what we see, and we don’t see much cash on the table for AW. Your article makes some good points, the “phases” idea is interesting, I also think there’s a “phase” argument worth considering, the phase when AW arrived with knowledge of players that he wanted, and who were available relatively cheaply, (Paddy, Thierry, Robert) and the current phase where he relies on somewhat shaky advice to buy players who don’t turn out to be such huge bargains (Squillaci, Almunia, Silvestre, Gervinho, Giroud, Santos.) I wonder if there’s a story behind the abject failure of the scouting system in recent years?
That is a very good point about the success of our scouting team lately, Mick. I hadn’t thought about that. Do you reckon David Dein had something to do with that?
we are 10th in the league. Thats enough for me Wenger has to go.