Match Preview: Arsenal v Manchester United EPL Match Day 3
In the past this was one of the tastiest fixtures of the season. It was one that always guaranteed fireworks. But in our last 7 trips to Old Trafford, Arsenal have not lived up to their part in this billing. It hardly carries the allure of the yesteryears and given the current state of things noone really knows how this match between the league Champions, Manchester United and the Gunners will wind up.
The Gunners are coming off a mood-enhancing, come from behind victory against Udinese in the mid-week. Surely the grit and determination have showed a rarely seen side to recentArsenal squads that raises a modicum of hope for a decent result in this fixture. But let’s be fair our squad is being held together by spit and spackle.
Gervinho, Frimpong, and Song are all out serving suspensions. Frimpong and Song’s absence in the midfield means it is likely that Johann Djourou will move to the middle to anchor the midfield and act as cover for Vermaelen and Koscielny. Jenkinson gets another trial by fire as he fills in on the right and will go head to head with Manchester United’s new boy Ashley Young. Sagna my player of the team in this short season moves to left.
To be fair to Jenkinson, the kid who we’ve been reminded 1000 times, was playing non-league football 18 months ago, has been stellar in his baptism by fire. But is it a lot to expect it to continue without error? You’d like to hope that he can do it. And I am sure he will be a star for this club, but it may be too much to ask to be error free week in and week out with his first season in major football action.
The attack gets muted a little as Andrei Arshavin will likely fill in for Gervinho. Andrei has shown glimpses of his willingness to be an integral part of this team. But then he has also shown his lazy style as was evident against Liverpool last week. If the Arshavin who played so well in the May fixture against United shows up, I am not concerned. He was pacy, he played defence and he was generally a handful for United. Given that smalling is likely to start in defence – if that Arshavin shows up we could see Arshavin have a banner day.
Again though the focus falls on the Arsenal central defence. I have to admit to being pleasantly surprised by the central defenders as led by Vermaelen. I think its safe to say a healthy TV5 was good for 6-7 points we may have lost last season. He is collected and cool and is strong in the air. He pretty much controlled Andy Caroll, a much bigger player, rendering him ineffective (okay Carroll is not worth the £35 million he was signed for but thats another story). He and his partner Koscielny will have a harder task dealing with Wayne Rooney and Danny Wellbeck.
Rooney’s skills and antics are widely know to Arsenal fans but Danny Wellbeck comes into his first “real” active season with United showing why Fergie has faith in him. He is a heading menace. His last 5 EPL goals have all come from his head. He’s a big boy and much better than the afore mentioned Carroll can hope to be. So to say the defenders will have their hands full with him and Rooney are an understatement. However, the 4 at the back – including Jenkinson and the guy behind the sticks have shown that they are cool and collected and they will need to be against a United side that is young and hungry.
The key match up however looks to be between both clubs’ under 21 keepers. For Arsenal it was during this fixture last year that Szczesny received his baptism of fire and passed with stellar marks. For United it is highly touted De Gea. His start has been controversial as he has already shown a propensity for big gaffes. It should be noted that like many of the Spanish keepers he is an excellent shot stopper but his ability against long and low shots is questionable. There is also a question about the Spainards wiry frame. Though with this Arsenal side that hardly seems to be where we would target him.
Szczesny is already building a name for himself with the Gunners faithful. The penalty save on Wednesday only took it one step further. He is confident and assured of himself and is not an indecisive keeper. Something this team has lacked for the last few years. While Lukasz Fabianski looks to want to challenge for the number 1 spot, Szczesny has a firm grip on the spot and isn’t letting it go.
All in all there are promising signs for this squad. There are also the more disturbing known facts. Like being thread bare player wise and not creative enough in the middle of the pitch. We are also light on the LB side of the pitch and there are questions about our ability to score. Should Arsenal fail to score against United it would mark the first time since the late 50’s that an Arsenal team had gone 3 matches without netting a goal. Additionally, we are on a run of 13 points from our last 13 matches which is the worst run of form since Wenger took over the club.
But as I said there is hope. This current squad seem to play as a unit. They seem to have heart in abudance and from all reports they are a close knit group. These are intangibles of character that haven’t been evident in last versions of the squad and maybe just maybe it will be the ingredient that carries the squad through when things are not going to plan.
How the Match Should Play Out:
This is a match that looks very much against Arsenal from every angle. From the recent record at Old Trafford to the litany of players missing from the squad it looks all very dismal for the Gunners. United have been playing very well even in their pre-season. It has carried over for them. Arsenal really need to get a result to not have to wash away everything that was gained on Wednesday. Look for the match to be a reversal of most of the recent United v Arsenal matches. United likely will have most of the play and Arsenal will be looking to unleash the attackers on the counter. A loss isn’t the end of the world for the Gunners as its only game 3 but it is not how you want to start in any season. Look for the Gunners to try and tap into their midweek energy and focus and eek out the draw.
Players to Watch:
Arsenal: Aaron Ramsey. The Welsh international has been absent in my opinion so far this season. He showed great skill in May against United netting the only goal. Arsenal need him to find himself quickly in order to increase the goal scoring total.
United: David De Gea. A 3-0 win over Spurs must have gone a long way to quelling any questions about the young keeper. But it hasn’t. United need him to continue to grow in confidence or find himself sitting on the side line.
Probable Starting XI:
Injuries and Suspensions:
Arsenal: Gervinho (suspended – 2) Song (suspended – 2) Frimpong (suspended -1) Wilshere (ankle) Diaby (ankle) Gibbs (hamstring) Djourou (hamstring) Eastmond (ankle)
MUFC: Vidic (calf), Rafael (shoulder)
Leading Scorers:
Arsenal:
MUFC: Rooney (2)
Last Meeting: (EPL)
Arsenal: 1
MUFC:
Goals For:
Arsenal (away): 0
MUFC (home): 3
Goals Against:
Arsenal (away): 0
MUFC: (home): 0
Last Five:
Arsenal: LD
MUFC: WW
Goal Difference:
Arsenal: -2
MUFC: 4
Match Official:
Referee: Howard Webb
Broadcast Information:
US: FSC 1100 AM EST
UK: Sky Sports 1 1600 BST
GAMEDAY CHAT: It’s Open!!!!!!
www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
YAMA Prediction:
Arsenal: 1
MUFC: 1
The Final Word:
During yesterday’s press conference Wenger mentioned that he felt we were short in the striker area. He confirmed that Niklas Bendtner will likely end up at a new club and needed someone to come in and fill that slot. Well, it looks like when Wenger wants to he can move fast. Every press outlet is saying that Arsenal have signed Monaco striker Park Chu-Young. (let the Younger jokes begin). The interesting part of this story is that Monaco and Lille had already agreed to a fee for Park. The player had gone through the first part of the medical only to tell Lille when they went to get him for the 2nd part that he had heard from Wenger and would be going to London. Jamie Sanderson at YGB and the Mirror is reporting that Park has in fact this morning met the Arsenal squad and is having his medical.
This begs a couple of questions – 1. What about Hazard? Well Lille are obviously upset but David Ornstein from the BBC says its more at the player than Arsenal. Still if there was a deal in place for Hazard as has been widely reported what is its status since Arsenal seemingly hijacked this deal. We just don’t know. 2. Who the hell is Park Chu-Young. In typical Arsenal fashion this a name noone had us linked with and from all reports only materialized late last night. Park is the South Korean National team captain where he has 53 caps and 17 goals. For Monaco he has 91 caps with 25 goals. And then finally 3. If we can move for a striker that noone knows and seemingly get it done within 1-2 days what the hell is holding up our other activity? The answer – he was cheap.
If you want to see what Park is like here is a video with his some of his goals:
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Very nice post, this is information I was looking for
fakingnews:
http://newsthump.com/2011/08/29/god-punishing-north-london-rioters-through-football-claims-wenger/
I believe all these names when I see it.
Just WOW.
I cannot understand we are REALLY2 leaving it all to the last day. Talking about last minute work. Burning the midnight oil? Kah Kah
All the flaws in this transfer window has been exposed. Arsenal screwed up.
I think we will finish 5th or 6th this season. And Wenger will certainly defend this, WHY, because he have been finishing better in the couple of seasons, and WE SHOULD LOOK INTO THE PAST!!!!!!
But what ever!!
We’ve been linked with Arteta and / or Fellaini @ Everton.
I think Arteta would be an excellent signing.
So many links now, its hard to believe any/many aren’t just names being thrown about… but as someone above mentioned, NONE are STAR PLAYERS at the level of Cesc or Nasri.
I think Arteta approaches a recognisable level, and Cahill as well…
Frankly I do NOT care how much the players cost. If teams are asking extra for players we WANT/NEED… we HAVE TO PAY IT.
We NEED the star player, or KEY Players NOW… we don’t have the luxury of just waiting, because we’ve waited so damned long to act.
But I LOVE this from BBC Sports daily Football Info.
LOVE IT:
——————
An Arsenal supporters’ group named ‘Where Has Our Arsenal Gone?’ have paid for a billboard near Emirates and are planning a protest to the club’s board at the match against Swansea on Saturday week.
The problem is we’re looking for new players to rectify flaws that stem from management. The flaws are in our game plan and approach. I mean, when I see the German international Mertesacher is signing, I should be excited, yet I ask myself can the six foot six German compensate for the non-coaching of the defence? Can he do what Sol Campbell did and pull the defence together (albeit with Keown still in the squad).
I just fear the games up. Even Campbell had Vieira and Gilberto in front of him – what will Mertesacher have? Song and ???
The signs are ominous. Why are we signing these guys now? None of them are star names and they would have been available sooner (Mertesacher and Park), or if not them (Santos) then other similar players were. It smacks of a desparate/angry reaction and I do wonder about Wenger’s mental state.
The whole thing seems weird, it’s like everyone at Arsenal is in lala land.
I want to get excited about the transfer situation, but I’m still absolutely furious with Wenger for the joke that unfolded before our eyes on Sunday. He is such a cretin that he not only is redefining success but also redefining failure. His whole reaction and body language was of someone who almost expected the result and anyway, it wasn’t that big a deal, because the players were ‘jaded’ and physically dropped. The same old absolute crap he comes out with when we lose a closely contested scrap against an Everton or Bolton is now being used to explain away the most embarrassingly shameful result in our history. It’s unbelievable, and the apathy seems to have seeped to the majority of the fans. Already it seems to have been forgotten and brushed under the carpet.
Wenger can sign who he wants (we know he won’t sign any real star quality anyway) but it’s too late. Even he ‘wins’ this season, he’s already lost. His whole project and philosophy has been exposed as fraudalent – fInally – to a wider audience.
@Mazza,
Is this a petition? I’ll sign here, just in case.
@vibe4arsenal,
Cheers Vibe. Means alot ;)
Here’s another rumour circulating –
Clint Dempsey to Arsenal
@DaAdminGooner,
Like Dempsey but don’t see the fit. Would increase US fan base however just like Park and RYO buys will double our Asian sales and fan base.
Strategic targeted marketing at it’s best.
It is being claimed that at least one big name signing will be made.
I have no idea who that could be.
Any suggestions?
@Caribkid,
Senderos? Free transfer? Big guy, anyway.
@vibe4arsenal,
:) :)
The story in the link below tells us all we need to know about Arsene’s failed egalitarian strategy.
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/873900-henri-lansbury-hunt-sees-blackburn-joined-by-wolves-qpr-and-norwich?
Wolves, QPR, Blackburn and norwich want him but can’t meet existing salary requirements. A reserve who has only played a handful of games is on 25K a week. WAF Joke!
Guys, only one stat you need to know about Santos, he is the current starting LB for Brazil. Now, please don’t even try to compare Gibbs to him at this stage of his career.
Santos, Bastos and Marcelo have been in contention for that Brazil spot and shared duties since Roberto Carlos left the fold. All of the above mentioned three would be an upgrade to Gibbs.
Ozi mentioned seeing Santos in the opposing box and couldn’t understand. That’s what good WB’s do in most successful systems. When they cut in it either takes the opposing FB or CB with them and leaves a hole which can be exploited by the RW or RMF. Brazil, Barca, RM all work this to perfection.
If you have organized defensive rotation it’s not a problem and is very effective.
Can’t see the sense of getting both Mertesacker and Samba/Cahill unless we are going to 3-5-2 or getting rid of both JD and Squid. Getting just one would satisfy me with JD as a 4th choice and could play against the Stokes, etc. Especially with Miquel and Bartley in the wings.
Although I like M’Villa, can’t see how we are going to use him when we have Song, Frimpong, Wilshere and Ramsey in MF. He is a DM and Box to Box MF. Hard working, small but rugged, but is not considered to be a creative MF, an asset we are solely lacking. Neither Ramsey or Wilshere is ready to take up that mantle just yet, so that leaves us with only Rosicky.
In reality I think CB and CMF are the two most crucial positions we have to fill in the short term. A world class, clinical striker would also be real nice.
@Caribkid,
Funny you should mention JD and the Squid boy – Fiorentina have inquired about JD and Arsenal are actively trying to offload Squid boy.
@DaAdminGooner,
If JD goes then any of Samba/Cahill/Jagielka would be a great buy. At that point I would prefer Jagielka just for his versatility. Not the best of the three at CB, but can also play RB, DM and in a pinch will sub in goal. Would be good especially with Jenks as our only backup to Sagna.
@Caribkid,
Yeah, Jenkinson is a BIG worry. He was playing in the conference just half a year ago!!!!
@Caribkid,
Why does EVERY single player in the world that Arsenal is rumored to be interested in SUDDENLY have their height inflated on wikipedia???
M’vila is now suddenly a six-footer … while soccernet has him at 5 ft 7in or so.
————————————————–
Either way, he is a DM and DMs are not known to be tall or have need for it. Stamina, balance, doggedness are their most necessary traits. e.g. Makelele.
Song, Frimpong, Wilshere and Ramsey is NOT enough in anyway. (Rosicky is useless so no point mentioning him, and Diaby is a full time crock).
And of these four, Frimpong has played only TWO senior games his entire LIFE.
Ramsey is weak and inexperienced. Wilshere, no matter how good he was last season has only ONE year of experience. And he seems to have picked up the injury bug.
Song is also not great either. Any good AM would beat the crap out of him like a cheap drum.
We NEED someone like M’Vila AND an attacking midfielder as well. We are extremely short in numbers and quality in midfield.
I think we should get rid of JD (Fiorentina is interested) and the Squidmaster and get in Per and Cahill. Its time we stopped messing around in defense.
If Ramsey, Frimpong, Djorou and any other think bringing in new talent is “unfair” to them, then tough luck. They can buck up and CLAIM their turf by MERIT and HARDWORK or go get stuffed.
@Fred,
Yup, I have seen M’Villa and he reminds me of a younger and less bulky Essien. No way is he over 5′ 8″.
And, you are right in that he doesn’t have to be tall if we have height at the back which was our problem when we had the Gallas, Toure pairing.
IF and a big if, the rumors going around are true … and we get Santos, Mertsacker, Cahill, M’vila and one more midfielder …. then we are back in business.
We are still not going to win f all though (seeing as Wenger is a tactical buffoon) but at least Arsenal will be a watchable competitive side.
Now if we can just get rid of Almunia, Rosicky, Chamakh and Squillaci, that would just clear the deck of people we dont want to see – although I would not mind keeping Bendy. But the other four really have to go.
Also hopefully, Frimpong gets into the England squad, so we can limit our ANC losses to just Song and Gervinho.
If ALL these scenarios work out, we could actually be an interesting team to watch this season. At least we’ll have a fair crack at fourth place anyway.
Only worth keeping NB if we go back to a 4-4-2 and he can play as a proper target striker. Playing him on the wing is a waste.
@US Gunner,
Formations can be changed based on the type of opposition. Apparently, Arsene doesn’t think the same way , but if you look on City now they have the most versatile squad in the world.
They can move to any known formation and not lose anything in terms of quality. If Mancini can improve his man management they will be hard to beat this year.
We could play 4-5-1 with NB as the target man and RVP/Arshavin/Park in a withdrawn role or go 4-4-2 with RVP and Park/NB/Gervinho/Walcott as his partner.
So the news of the day is Per Mertesacker for €9 million.
No word if this ends interest in Cahill.
Also word from France is that the club are trying to find a home for Squillaci.
Aarmond Traore’s move to QPR was not a loan deal it was a sale for £1.2 million. He signed for QPR for 3 years.
@DaAdminGooner,
So to follow up. Joachim Low has confirmed that he expects Per to rejoin the National Team – this evening as he is completing a move to a new club. Additionaly, Werder have confirmed that they are finalizing the deal with Arsenal reported to be around what I quoted earlier €9 million.
Also, the Telegraph is carrying a story that we also had a second bid for Gary Cahill rejected said to be in the region of £12 million.
If they do not get Cahill the club will quickly try and wrap a deal for Samba. this all according to the Telegraph.
So it looks like our new defencive signings will be Mertesacker, Santos, and either Cahill or Samba
Word is that a midfielder is still in play and that its either M’Villa or Martin. Last resorts are Malouda or Benayoun.
And then in other weird transfer news:
1. Hargreaves is having a medical at Man City
2. Joe Cole is on loan to Lille.
@DaAdminGooner, Hmmm.. sounds promising. No celebration till all is done though. M’Villa pls!!!!
Like the inside info btw DAG..
@DaAdminGooner, According to Canal+, the Mertsacker deal is done. I’ll believe it when I see it. Has the Santos deal been made official? I’ve only seen rumors of it so far.
Has anyone here watched M’Villa play? I had never even heard of him until the rumor mill started up, but everyone on this site seems really excited about him. I trust the judgement of people on this site far more than going to Youtube and watching some crap video with awful music that doesn’t really give much real insight into the player.
@David Eshenbaugh,
I have watched him and I vouch for him (for what thats what lol).
He is a serious, hard tackling, aggressive, no nonsense type of player. He plays mostly as a DM, but can also play CM.
For me he is a midfield game-changer. The kind of signing we should have made in 2005 to pair up with Fabregas after we sold Vieira.
@Fred, Thanks for the info. Do you think he is big enough to play that rugged style in the EPL? It is a bit tougher going than Ligue 1.
@David Eshenbaugh,
Yeah, it is a bit tougher … but he definitely has the ability to play it. Essien also moved from the Ligue 1 to England and bedded in well. But ofcourse one never knows till they actually make the switch.
Whatever the case, I fully expect him to be our best CM/DM the moment he arrives.
@Fred,
Seen M’Villa play many times but never as the Creative MF. seen him play DM and B To B. Yes, he is excellent but not our answer at Creative MF.
Either Wilshere or Ramsey could eventually fill that gap in another year or so if they progress. Ramsey seems bogged down this year. can’t figure out the reason.
@Caribkid,
I didnt say he was a creative MF … I said DM or CM.
In my numenclature, AM is the creative mid, DM the holding guy whilst the CM is the in between like Essien.
The other thing I’ve noticed about Barca is the joy with which Cesc is playing. I can’t remember him ever playing with such excitement. He prolly did but not with the verve and zest he is now.
We’ve been having a discussion on twitter about this and some of us wonder – was he really ever an Arsenal man.
At the very least he was the longest loanee in soccer history and the only loanee to ever be made Captain.
@DaAdminGooner, I call BS. That kind of verve and zest is easy to come by when you’re playing with a team on your wavelength.
I’d be grinning like a lunatic as well if I was playing in that team at my boyhood club. Messi, Thiago, Iniesta.. Buddies with Puyol and Pique and all. Won a world cup with them. 100% confidence in the club and the players around him. It’s a damn shame we didn’t give him that at Arsenal.
Sure we might not have been able to give him Messi and he may not have a sun-baked house and a glass of Sangria to go to at the end of each day but we didn’t even try. We gave him Denilson and Walcott.
Cesc loved Arsenal, not as much as Barca which is understandable. But to say he might not have been an Arsenal man is insanity.
@OziKenyan,
Agree completely. As if it’s hard to understand why a man just released from prison looks so happy.
More backwards thinking, trying to avoid blaming the club for *its* deficiencies in favor of making it about the best player we’ve had the last 5 years. It wasn’t that Cesc wasn’t an Arsenal man, it was that Arsenal wasn’t really a Cesc club.
@DaAdminGooner,
Completely disagree. He is as much of an Arsenal man as Vieira – who said a LOT of awful things about Arsenal in the summers of 2001 and 2002.
The ONLY players more Arsenal than Fabregas were the old English back five.
As Ozi and Vibe have said ANYBODY would be overjoyed to be playing in THIS Barca team, let alone a team full of people you GREW UP WITH.
Let us stop casting negative aspersions on the ONE guy who SOLELY held us from crashing in the last five years.
He is pure, top class. And Arsenal failed to build a proper team around him. Leave him alone.
In case you wanted to see some of the new boy Andre dos Santos here you go:
There is one particular goal in here he scores that is sick:
http://youtu.be/UEhlvsHF1L8
@DaAdminGooner, Looks… uhmm.. attacking.. Didn’t see any defensive highlights. Meh.. it’s only youtube.
Btw, didn’t see the goal you’re talking about. The flick was from his shot that was mishit…
@OziKenyan,
There was a sick back heel goal.
@DaAdminGooner, Yeah I saw that, but it looked to me like it was Santos shooting, missing and fluking an assist when a teammate reacted brilliantly.
I might be wrong though. Haven’t watched it again. If it was him then niceee.. Reactions look impressive. Though I’d question what the LB was doing in the box..
So Barca kick off their La Liga season.. Xavi vs Cesc. Guess who was on the bench and who in the lineup.. LOL.
The displacement took a shorter time than I had expected. Makes sense as well, Cesc is every bit as good a passer, equally brilliant vision, better dribbling, faster, better tackling and all things defensive, more inclined to shoot and more of a goal threat.
Well done Cesc!!
@OziKenyan,
Yup, I predicted that as well. And the guy BOSSED the midfield as if he has been playing for Barca for the last 5 years.
By middle of this season he will be the complete puppetmaster of the Barca show.
Meanwhilst at Arsenal, the AKBs will continue to blame him for us not winning anything in the last 7 years.
@Fred,
Watched the entire match. What I like about Pep is he got new toys in Sanchez and Cesc and found a way for them to fit in.
read a great piece on Cesc actually being a player who will replace Puyol on the team. Not position for position. But Pep is putting holding mids like Masch in the CB role and will permanently be doing that. That allows for more attacking mids. I got to find the article I am not doing it justice.
Additionally, what was curious was the set up. Cesc was playing forward in a 3-4-3 with both him and Messi acting as a false 9.
The fludity of the entire squad is immense. Its funny because the joksters on talkSport were discussing that City were better than Barca. They’re good no doubt but not that good. This current version of Barca is going to shred every team it comes up against. Even City and their money won’t stop this squad.
They had 83% of the ball today. Sick. Sick But again it comes to Pep who isn’t afraid to adjust his side based on talent.
@DaAdminGooner,
I read that article too. Really interesting.. I think it was the one CK linked to last week.
@ChicagoGooner,
Its why I like Pep. He isnt afraid to experiment to win.
Trivia question: How many times has RvP actually scored a freekick??
Why is he considered our freekick guru?
Just a random question really. Because it seems everybody assumes he is some set piece specialist. And I think that is without basis.
@Fred,
he scored a lot in the early days Fred. Last season he netted 1 and the year before I think it was one or 2 also.
Matter of fact, I would be willing to bet that Arsenal scores the lowest percentile from direct free kicks than any other top 10 team.
@Fred, Agreed…He got a deflection at Birmingham City last season, but before that I think it was in 2006 vs Everton that he last scored from a FK….(Though maybe there is another in the intervening 4+ years…..) Wilshere actually delivers better lefty corners and likely would do better with FKs…..And, finally, this is the reason I scoffed at any links we might have had with Leighton Baines, who (along with Fabio Aurelio) has the best left foot in English football—there was no way in hell we would pay the “English Premium” for a player who would take away one of RVP’s raisons d’etre…..
@Fred, He’s got an unorthodox free kick style. Personally, I think standard curl the ball over the wall free kicks are more successful (look no further than Rooney on Sunday). Nasri and Cesc used to do that for us on occasion. Don’t think there’s anyone left. With RVP the keeper knows more than 90% of the time it’s going to be a belter into the far top corner which has the double whammy of low accuracy, more time for the keeper to react (longer dist to travel) annnd the keeper is usually closer to that post anyway.
I also think when VP crosses with his free-kicks, we look more likely to score than his direct ones.
Though I do seem to remember mannny istances of him hitting the woodwork, missing by a whisker or the keeper jusst managing to get fingertips to it. A bit of bad luck? maybe, but all the factors above contribute as well…
The fact is with certain sets of fans – Arsene could bring in the likes of Kaka, Schneider and others of that calibre right now and it would be a case of too little too late.
He could bring in players that seem like in the long run will help of the make up of Park, dos Santos, and the others at that level and fans will bitch that they are not the quality we need. Regardless of if they help or not.
Or he does nothing and severely takes a beating.
At this point he just won’t win. Even if he were to win something he won’t win over fans who want him gone now.
@DaAdminGooner,
He can’t win no matter what he does. Completely agree. Why should he be able to after an 8-2 loss? After 7 years of crap? After all that which you mentioned in your previous post about the systematic dismantling of a legacy? No he can’t win, nor should he be given the chance to.
@DaAdminGooner,
On the contrary if we brought in Kaka, Parker, Cahill, Santos, and another striker, I will be pacified some.
Such a move will earn him one more year at least.
But I know for SURE that Wenger will never do that, so I can continue hating him peacefully.
@DaAdminGooner, Like I say below (and nobody corrects me….) the problem is systemic and it’s naive (or crazy) to blame it all on one man. He polarizes, I think, because of his “otherness,” being French yet speaking perfect English (when he wants to), being coy (lying), and having a “vision” in which he has total faith, among other things….. Belief is the ultimate expression of hope, and among humans is often deeply irrational (note how many “believe” in life after death, with no rational evidence supporting…..) In this way, Arsene-L, is almost like a religion and many (70% according to a poll in the Guardian) want to see if the “savior” can do “it”. The question is what is “it”? And does “it” even matter as long as there’s something in which to have faith?
Pretty obstruse stuff, but that’s what shipping 8 goals will do to you……
@HighburyTerraceSteve, Deep and interesting HT. FOod for thought…
@DaAdminGooner,
‘The fact is with certain sets of fans – Arsene could bring in the likes of Kaka, Schneider and others of that calibre right now and it would be a case of too little too late.’
Actually, this just goes to show, not matter what Wenger does, a certain set of fans will go to any lengths (Kaka? Really?) to defend him.
It is clear that the only way Wenger will ever leave Arsenal is if he does it on his own accord. He will never be pushed out. If Arsenal finish outside the top 4, he will still be lauded for leading Arsenal to CL for 14 consecutive years and will be considered the man to take them back into CL. Arsenal won’t get relegated but even if they did, the board and a lot of supporters will still consider him to be the man to bring them back to the PL.
In the next 2 days, the club will continue to make bids for players they know they can’t buy making it look like they are working hard. And if Arsene gets cheap unknown buys, his supporters will point to the success of his cheap buys from a decade ago (or 100 years) and hope for more of these undiscovered gems to lead Arsenal to glory.
Of course, what is not being said is that no matter who Arsenal buys won’t be of much help if they are injured all the time. If a player is not injury prone previously, he will be once he joins Arsene’s setup. Then another injury prone cycle will start leading to more ‘bad luck’ noise by supporters coupled by mistaken ref/linesmen decisions. So everyone will want to look forward to another season when the ‘bad luck’ injuries will stop and the squad will be full strength and challenge for trophies. In the meantime, Fergie will continue to praise Arsene even more while Neville will write more articles saying Arsenal fans should worry when Arsene leaves.
I think you can all put the Wenger must go to rest. Unless the likes of Kroneke, Gazidis and PHW go, there is no firing of Wenger.
He is their manager and he gets them what they want. The clubg have reconfirmed just in the last 10 minutes that regardless of what fans are saying Wenger’s position with the club is “rock solid.”
Move on there is nothing to see here.
@DaAdminGooner, yeah. that’s a good story, but if we keep losing, we don’t get anybody in worth a damn, and the fans don’t show up, and make enough noise, the board will force the issue…
they have no choice.
the fans buy the tickets, and show up, or not… it could get ugly enough for Wenger to leave.
@stag133,
Only Kroenke has the power to do it. The Board are subject to his whims and fantasies.
@DaAdminGooner Usually when management in starts showing public support for the coach, that’s not a good sign. I doubt Wenger is going, but a public show of support means f&@k all.
So lads I guess it was a good thing I didn’t get to see the match. I was suffering through Irene which took out my power for 26 hours and also took out the ATT tower so I had intermittent cell service. Good thing though when I saw the team going up there, I was like – we are going to get throttled – it is essentially a reserve side with some first teamers thrown in. What can you expect.
Also on top of Irene, my neighborhood was on lock down as a man hunt that started in Virigina and ended 1/2 a mile from home was in place. Police would not let us on the streets. until 4PM yesterday after the gunman had been found dad (like I said 1/2 a mile from my home).
But there is news in Arsenal land:
1. Can confirm Aarmond Traore is gone. Sent to QPR can’t tell if its a season long loan or sale.
2. Can confirm that Arsenal are finalizing the purchase of Andre Dos Santos a 28 yr old Brazillian LB from Fenerbahce for £2 million (10 goals for Fener and 8 for Corinthians)
3. I can also confirm that Arsenal have had a €35 million bid for Dortmund’s Mario Geotze rejected,
4. Yossi Benayoun is being linked to Arsenal.
@DaAdminGooner, Geez DAG….Almost puts things in perspective…..(almost)…..
Thanks also for the news, of course…..
@DaAdminGooner,
sorry you got hit by Irene hard!
I expect ACTION, that’s what I expect… not waiting until the final hour and an 8-2 humiliation to be forced to act upon the deficiencies in the team…
Absolute total mis-management by ALL involved, but mostly Wenger…
Traore to QPR on loan or sale is IDIOCY in the highest order.
We SOLD our starter in Clichy, Gibbs is HURT(now and often), and Traore is our back-up. WTF.
When a player HOLDS UP THE SHIRT, I’ll believe he’s coming to our club… never heard of Dos Santos, but if he’s a LB, GREAT.
Players and clubs rejecting Arsenal offers, nothing new, especially when we’ll give the teams NO TIME TO REPLACE WHOMEVER WE BUY. Seriously, even a NITWIT like ME can figure that out.
Benayoun – Parker – Bellamy – Alex – any of ManCity’s wantaways are what WE SHOULD BE GOING FOR, because they have no options and NEITHER DO WE.
We’re FECKED.
Whose fault is it?
WE KNOW THAT ANSWER.
ANGER. PAIN. SUFFERING. HUMILIATION.
that’s what Wenger and the board have brought to us all as Arsenal supporters this year. FIRE THEM ALL.
@stag133,
Dos Santos is an offencive minded LB who has good Defencive abilities. He has 10 goals for Fenerbahce since 2009.
He also has 22 caps for the Brazillian national team.
Frankly, this is an upgrade over Clichy, never mind Traore.
Dortmund rejected the offer for a few reasons –
1. Goetze is a special player they were never going to sell
him.
2. Dortmund and the rest of the BL are flush with cash and don’t need the money.
3. They just sold Sahin one of their other better players to Madrid/
4. We do happen to be in the same CL group.
@DaAdminGooner, DAG, he plays in the Turkish League, no EPL experience, and he’s walking into a starting position at Arsenal. Never heard a peep about him, and we don’t know that he’s an improvement over Clichy. Seriously, I will believe it when I see it. Clichy was a decent STARTING left back.
If we were always going to sell Traore, like you say, the what the HELL are we waiting until an 8-2 thrashing, 2 days before the window closes for to do so?
Do you really think this makes ANY sense?
We could have had Enrique from Newcastle for less than we sold Clichy to City.
If Goteze is a “special player” they were NEVER going to sell… what the feck are we wasting time on the effort for? Again, does this make ANY sense 2 days before the deadline? He also has NOT played a second in the EPL… so for 35 Million, he better be a god-damned STAR. We could have had MATA! but we didn’t want to spend what we got for Nasri on him?
I’ll ask a 3rd time, does that make ANY sense?
We’re FLUSH with about 90 MILLION GPB of cash to spend, and it seems like we can’t figure out WHAT THE **** WE ARE DOING?!
OVER PAY NOW, if you HAVE TO. Its that, or finish 8th in the damned league…
FIRE WENGER, then SACK THE BOARD.
There are a few managers that would have no problems coming in, in 24 hours, and spending a good chunk of the money on improvements.
I simply do NOT trust Wenger to SPEND THE MONEY on players, OR…. if he does, on the RIGHT PLAYERS.
We could have had YOUNG, instead we bought a kid from Soton who never played in the EPL…
what makes sense about that? NOTHING… absolutely nothing does…
@stag133,
As for Traore – the team never expected to get him back from Juventus. They thought they would buy him. He was only kept because Clichy wanted to go.
Yesterday sealed his fate.
@DaAdminGooner,
Sorry to hear about your Irene problems and hope all is well now.
Andre Santos is the current starting LB for Brazil and played a few games in this years Copa. Decent enough. Certainly an upgrade to Gibbs and Traore.
@DaAdminGooner,
Goetze is that young up and coming German MF I believe. 35M is stupid, especially when you could have gotten Wetzel, Sahin and that LB now at Liverpool for less than that combined.
@DaAdminGooner,
No way Dortmund will sell us their STAR attacking midfielder ONE day before the transfer deadline!!
They are actually a SERIOUS club. Their formation this season is built around him. There is just no time to replace even if they wanted to sell.
They are in the champions league (and they are facing us in the group stages too). Plus they are also German champions and have some swagger around them right now.
We will actually have to pay FAR MORE money to buy now than we would have if we had just bought EARLY in the summer like a normal and serious club.
WENGER MUST GO!
@DaAdminGooner, Mario Geotze? Man the hype around that kid is HUGE. Lol no chance we’re getting him, and personally would have preferred Mata myself. At thi stage, the only realistic AM looks like Benayoun – player wants to leave, club don’t want him, we need mids, still based in London, no premier league shock, certified crock… it all fits
There is NO point bringing in new players for Wenger to use.
His “tactics” yesterday were hands down embarrassing.
The moronic tactics of last season (Bendy on the wings, no DMs, etc, etc) were nothing compared to this season’s.
A young, weak defense going up against Nani and Young …. so what tactic does Wenger use? An extremely HIGH line.
Ofcourse he does not believe DMs actually do anything. Hence his removal of our only one on the pitch.
I could go on and on but what’s the use.
PS: A sweet note for the remaining AKBs:
OPTA stats: No team that has picked up just 1 point in first 3 games has gone on to finish in the top four. (courtsey Nipuna on AT).
PSS: WENGER MUST GO!
@Fred,
The amazing thing is that many AKB’s are still defending Arsenal and Arsene.
Went over to Untold Arsenal to see what they had to say and it was unbelievable.
Speaking of rose tinted glasses :)
@Caribkid,
Went there and saw it for myself.
It seems those guys are living ni LALA land.
There are much worse than Wenger!!!
@Caribkid, It is incredible but the love for Wenger strangely feels stronger after the worst defeat for the club in 115 years. Might be a version of Stockholm Syndrome or something. The club offering a free ticket for one away game is hailed as classy?? Wow. I would have hailed it if they offered it for all the away games for the rest of the season but one game seems almost insulting given such a terrible result in one of the most hostile away venues for Arsenal.
Yesterday’s disaster also means future 3-0 or 4-0 losses will be praised by some Arsenal fans as signs that Arsenal are improving under Wenger.
@Fred, Good to hear that Nipuna is alive and well, even if he has to toe the line on Danny T’s blog….. (Easy enough to do these days, I guess)….winky face, etc…..
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t AW (more than anything) a victim of his own success during the transition to the new stadium?
If I understand my history correctly, the early success was all inherited from GG (with maybe a little help from DB10)….. After that, AWs biggest achievement was converting a disgruntled, underachieving Thierry Henry into “the best player in the world” (and a player whose output could actually CARRY a team). It may have gone to his head, but it may also have been too much, too soon for Arsenal fans (in North London and elsewhere). Did it not all change in 2006 with the simultaneous move to the new (sterile, overpriced) stadium, Bergkamp’s retirement, Vieira wanting out (and losing his legs) and finally, Henry wanting out AND being crocked? Pair (all) this with a financial model of greedy owners/board members counting on the real estate bubble (the only “good debt” as I’ve heard Gazidis explain it….) and maybe pushing out David Dein who maybe saw a need, here and there, to give in to the rising “player power” of emerging stars. Add the rise of 2 new mega-rivals (Chelsea and City) immune to such issues and not even having to borrow (as did the others: United, ‘Pool, Spurs)…..It all seems a bit much to place at the feet of one guy…..No matter how much he believes in his vision, lies to the press (and the supporters who listen to it) and smirks and rubs people the wrong way…..
Of course, I’m NOT saying that he shouldn’t shoulder a bulk of the blame, but others maybe should too (including those of us who hope to be hopeful when it comes to our team….) and back it up with time and money and energy. I think, however that we’re less at fault than those who are making 10’s or 100’s of millions off the team…..
Anyhow, these are some low, low times and (see below) I don’t see them getting better anytime soon. Still, the urge to pin blame on a single, (theoretically) changeable piece of the puzzle (Wenger) is ALSO a statement of (naive, IMO) hope, when the problem is far more systemic…..
CK, I haven’t seen Arsenal Analysis but I thought Andrew and Tim (Arseblog and 7amkickoff) did well with the situation at hand. Some describe them as AKBs but, IMO, They’re just regular old supporters who see things pretty clearly and admit to (maybe) erring on the side of hope (rather than hate)…..
In happier news (that is probably just a teaser) we’re getting linked with Alex and Benayoun from across town. I think both would be PHENOMENAL signings as they know the English league and can provide back-up and competition with some of our youngsters. At this point I don’t care that both have had injury issues and would be seen as cast-offs from the new regime at Chelsea. Frankly, I doubt we’ll score either of them. Villas-Boas should hoard talent in similar fashion to Mancini, but, who knows, maybe he has a weakness of prizing player contentment that we can use to our advantage…..
Hope (even when drubbed mercilessly the day before), sometimes, springs eternal……
@HighburyTerraceSteve, both Benayoun AND Alex would WALK INTO OUR STARTING SQUAD.
They DEFINITELY WOULD HELP US NOW.
So would PARKER, BELLAMY, and OTHER CITY cast-offs.
We are in a dire situation, and might have to take a few good men, as opposed to the SPECIAL PLAYER BS that Wenger has been spouting shite about for YEARS on end.
NO SPECIAL PLAYER is coming to ARSENAL FC.
NONE.
Well, I tried to shut yesterday’s farce out of my mind (and heart), but it ain’t easy…..
I’ve got plenty of agreement with many of the long-timers here. When it comes to blaming management we’ve clearly got a case where there are no checks and balances. It’s most interesting because usually the “visionary” needs bean counters to keep it real. Here, however, he fancies himself a magician who can spin gold out of plain cloth, for both glory and profit….. I admire all the positive thinking but, boy o boy, it can lead you into one dark as hell cul-de-sac…..
And now, doing the Monday morning quarterback (attacking midfielder?) thing, we see transfer news about Traore to QPR (and little else) with 60 hours left in the transfer window. Despite another youngster failing to live up to his potential I’m sure AW still believes in the model and that if anything (beyond bad luck) would be to blame, it would be “reactive” purchases. Only one of those comes to mind, and that would be (our record signing) of (currently useless and comically tragic) Andrey Arshavin on deadline day (Jan 2009) when Aston Villa seemed poised to take our coveted top 4 position….. (In other words, Stag, et. al, don’t hold your breath–4 or 5? you’re having a laugh….Also, crap players don’t really help that much, IMO…..)
Really, it’s staggering. We have some good players, but, as Kiwi suggests, the reason we have them is that they are at Arsenal because they are on (relatively) big contracts based on their POTENTIAL rather than their production. RVP, potentially, is (or might have been) a world class striker, just as Theo Walcott, Jack Wilshere and Kieran Gibbs are, potentially, regulars in the England 1st 11 (very different from being world class, btw….) Ramsey, Vermaelen, Sneezy, LK6 (and others) MAY come good depending on luck with injuries including mental ones, like yesterday’s thrashing…. And now (after a productive summer, following the model) we’ve got a whole new generation of teenagers coming up, facing similar “prospects”……
But (obviously) there’s no core and (following Kiwi again) those that were able to have already left. (Journeyman full back, Bacary Sagna, my favorite Arsenal player and the best defensive fullback in football, is a lesson in professional stoicism…..) ManU can field nothing but youngsters because (by offering trophies AND money) they have diving, cheating veterans at their core. Evra (the only non rookie in their back 5 or 6) did his thing including a starfish dive when he touched feet with Theo and Rooney (his hair IS cheating…..) converted more free kicks in a game than RVP has in a career. Still, even putting 8 past us yesterday, I really don’t see United as much more than flat track bullies (but we, sadly, are more crepe than pancake…..) and they will struggle (I think) when they face more prodigious talent. At least, however, they are a real team (which ALWAYS gives them a chance) and they will have experience (including yesterday’s) to draw upon.
We will too, and (following Newcastle away last season) this group will always know that a switch can be flipped and floodgates opened. There is not enough collective belief nor mental strength in the world to cover that much scar tissue…..
With prospects SO bleak you would think a change is needed. It is, of course, but we still have further to fall…. I’ve been saying (for awhile) that all signs point to the current management taking this ship to the bottom of the sea before selling out to Usmanov/Dein (Did CaribKid have a recent similar dream?) In my version, given Dein’s palsy/walsy ways with AW, the manager might even outast the board/owner!! Certainly he isn’t stepping down in the cold light of yesterday’s result, spectacular as it was…. In fact, I’m pretty sure it’s just a warm up for longer, darker days ahead. I picture a long slow climb–with hiccups–back up to mid-table, feeble exits in the cups after maybe a few promising displays and, on the transfer/financial side, only a very partial re-investment in these remaining days (favoring youth) and again in January…..We should all savor these (fairly tasty) CL ties because after them (and hopefully an easy out in the round of 16 or 8–god forbid we actually come third in our group or finish 5-7 in the league and face Thursdays in Siberia this Spring or next season) it could very well be EOF (English Only Football)…..
In other words, yesterday may have seemed like a sudden and violent death, but the patient (I fear) will linger on for quite awhile longer before a much more routine death and burial…..
Traore having a medical at QPR.
we don’t even have a proper starting LB, and we are selling the back-up?
WTF is up with this club? SERIOUSLY.
Still selling… can find the time to do deals SELLING players, but we can’t bring anyone of note in.
NEED 5 or 6 NOW…
Everyone is all over the club and Wenger. Ex-players, pundits, supporters, the world of football…
There were a good number of us predicting this on this site alone… if us nitwits could see and predict this, what exactly does that say about the Arsenal FC… heads so far up their arse they can’t see the light of day…
2 days left with the window open.
Do you really see us buying the necessary 4 or 5 players in that short period of time? I bet we SELL at least 2 more.
And call me nuts, but I think a commanding CM is more a necessity than a CB at this point. We have:
Wilshere – Our best by far right now, unfair pressure on him but that aside, season hasn’t started well and history tells us that our medical department may turn this into an injury ravaged season for him
Song – Splits opinions here. Personally, I like him when he’s playing disciplined. But a bit slow, will pick up suspensions and has to go to the AfCoN.
Ramsey – Looked well out of sorts. Can’t be relied on right now. F*ck you Shawcross!
Rosicky – Nowhere near his best. Feel sorry for him with all the misdiagnosis and what not, but it is what it is. We can’t rely on him.
Lansbury, Coqelin, Frimpong – Trial by fire. Unfair on them.
A CM is a must. I’d prefer a box to box type myself because:
-Minus Cesc and Nasri
-Plus Gervinho,
-Crappier overall makeup of the team, means less possession and more often us on the backfoot
I can see our game evolving a bit this season to a more counterattacking style. An AM would be fine too I guess…
@OziKenyan, What’s happened to the M’Vila noise?…..My hope is that it’s quiet because it’s in progress…..
@HighburyTerraceSteve, I hope so too mate. Though the cynic in me thinks we might have given up after having 2 decent sized bids turned down (but maybe we’ll reconsider after Sunday)…
M’Villa would be a beast.
Right right.. We lost 8-2, the world has gone upside down. Yadda yadda yadda. Any silver linings?
Traore on his way out. Boo ya! Surely, SURELY, that means we have a Lb coming in (in addition to a CB). I presume there’s the possibility that Wenger feels Vermaelen is the reserve for Gibbs, but judging by the fact that Sagna played OOP when needed I have hope for a new LB. Unless Sagna is the reserve… hmm… no surely not, not with Jenkinson so raw. Oh god it’s about to get worse isn’t it!?
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/950677/arsenal's-armand-traore-set-for-qpr-move?cc=3436
Any manager from Man U, Chelsea or Man City get this kind of beating will loose their job. But not with Arsenal. Because Arsene is Arsenal.
Enjoyed us being beaten like this. Proved that Arsene got it wrong and more pressure on him to get things right.
I do hope we loose another game to a lesser opponent. Then the calling for his head will be larger and bigger. I believe he is out of excuse.
But again, we gets away by giving excuses and the board lets him do it. Unless we fall below the yellow line, the boards thinks we are not doomed. This is how much we have fallen over the years. And yeah, keep reminding me of success he had in the past. Fergie had success in the past, they are still now. But what ever…………..
@tAi, Well you never know, Swansea’s on next…
The Arsenal board need to stay up all night trying to get another manager so that he be given a few days to sign players and save this sinking ship. That is provided the board and Stan will get rid of Wenger or Wenger will leave first thing monday morning. But I am sure the spin machine will be on full blast monday morning calling it a freak result, a once in a 115 year event and then asking for calm heads to look past this result. I am sure we will be told to give Wenger more time.
In a way, this was sort of the score-line that could have taken place at OT in that CL first leg but that day Almunia of all people kept the score at 1-0. The second leg it all came undone but it was only 1-3. So today Man Utd completed the job they have been threatening for a long time, even in that F.A Cup final which resulted in Arsenal’s last trophy.
Fergie gave his vote of confidence before the game. Why wouldn’t he do that? He knows no matter what team he puts out will run circles around any Wenger team. Today, he got his greatest result over Wenger, that too with another version of a team he is rebuilding.
>@sachin,
Forget the Board Sachin, they are as much a culprit for this crap which is happening. Nothing but a group of noble, senile socialites who find great pleasure in hobnobbing with other similar guests in the executive boxes every week while proclaiming they are running the most financially astute sporting entity.
None of them know crap about football. Kroenke is the only one who can right the ship and protect his shares.
Fire the Board, Wenger, Gazidis and his salary bloated lieutenants who bring in less advertising $$ than they earn. Put Bould as a caretaker manager and start doing business the right way again. Our foundation is rotten, and as any Structural Engineer will tell you, when that happens, tear it down and rebuild.
@Caribkid, Yes ideally I would like to see the whole lot gone, including PHW, Wenger, Ivan and even Stan even though he has done nothing so far but his inaction and silence has spoken for itself, as funny as that sounds. But somehow I cannot see a proper clear out happening in the upper echelons. Strangely, I cannot even see Wenger going despite this demolition job. As you say, this is how rotten things at this club that even something like this might not stir a reaction from the powers that be, but then again when have these powers cared for the on-field game itself?
For a change, the international break window provides a great chance to salvage things as a new manager would have some time to get a plan together to get this club moving forward again. The problem is that the transfer window closes shortly, so any action has to be made right away.
But the way this board is, nothing might happen. Instead, they may be contemplating another ticket hike even though they cannot implement it this season.
We’re entering a period where few quality players will want to join Arsenal until there is a change in direction (i.e. Wenger goes). You can slam Nasri all you like (and I’m on record calling him an arrogant smuck) but, you know, he’s simply done what most Arsenal stars have done over the last few years – left in his prime and usually as soon as his marketability spikes.
RvP is here because no other top team would treat him as their leading striking. None. No one. He’s a crock a certified bad investment, 28 and never played a season. Walcott is here because his star has waned steadily over the last 5 and a half years – he’s not a star. We have no other big ‘names’. Fabregas and Nasri were big names and they both manufactured their exit, as did Hleb, Adebayor, Diarra, and Flamini. See the pattern? All this talk of belief is a 100% nonsense. The players who become even moderately attractive leave. Even the players Wenger fawns – leave.
The danger is that even low-star-scale players like Sagna and Vermaelen, the type that are essential to a really solid team will become disenchanted and go too.
Beware the white noise, look at our wage bill – it’s very high. So, ask yourself whether its well spent before you slam dunk the board and Gazidis. I’ve asked for a while just why we over-pay young players. No one (?) wanted to discuss the matter. It didn’t seem relevant. Well my thinking is that there are some enormous cracks in this much proclaimed ‘self sustaining model’. I’d go as far as to say the overpaying of younger players is a key reason for many of the ills and ails that befall us. It makes no sense at all, never has, and ultimately it’s being stipped bare.
Didn’t watch it.
Have followed Arsenal since I was a youngster, but I’ve seen this train wreck unfold over the last 3 seasons with a sad certainty. How long is enough for people? How long do you give a manager on 6m (or whatever ?million) to experiment? How long is enough to pay homage to the 7 good years?
I’ve seen enough football to know that the end is never pleasant, for whatever reason managers rarely know when they need to go. They hang on and on (and in Wengers case…and on and on and on and on) until the Board is left with the thankless task of terminating the relationship.
Is this result the trainwreck, the crash, I referred to in recent days? Maybe. He survived the CL qualifier, but this…… anyone with a sense of Arsenal history knows this is enormous. To suffer the Mancs rubbing our nose in it like this is woeful. This is worse than our local rivals inflicting a bad loss. Manchester United have been our key adversary for over 2 decades and they are the defining team of this era, Ferguson v Wenger was for the first half of Wenger’s reign the defining managerial rivalry. Now….. the games up, 8-2, that’s the sort of scoreline reserved for a top team playing a non-league team in a cup.
If Wenger had any perspective and dignity he would walk. So many aspects of the club look to be in a shambles. We need a fresh broom, I’ve said for an age that Wenger has no ability to make the changes required – because it’s his head that’s the major issue. Even now, his response is to sign a no-name Korean chappy.
AND, we can’t just blame Arsene for this.
This was the PERFECT STORM created by an absentee owner in Kroenke, a non-footballing, egotistical Board, an inept “complex financial model” cunt in Gazidis and a delusional Manager in Arsene.
@Caribkid,
It basically is all of his own making though. Just as his success was all of his own making.
A bit harsh on Ivan the Self-Sustainer. He basically just jumped on a runaway train and has no choice but to go along for the ride. A Wenger puppet.
@Mazza, The other part of the organization must also take blame Mazza.
Wenger could only do what he has done if he was allowed to do so by those thick clods in charge.
Doubt if raising ticket prices was his decision. Doubt whether he told PWD to repeatedly call fans silly and doubt that he told Ivan to lie to the AST.
Kroenke has the power to dissolve the Board with his vote and shake things up. not his style, and the powers that be on whom he depended, fucked it all up.
No Mazza, Wenger is not the only culprit.
@Caribkid, YES. That’s why even if Arsene leaves I don’t know how good we’ll ever get again under the current idiocracy that runs the club. We’ll certainly be much, much better off than we are with him, but the ceiling won’t be as high as most would like.
This was the saddest sport’s day of my life as both my girl friend’s left me with a broken heart.
I was jilted by usain Bolt at the starting line and the AFC I once knew and loved died right in front of my eyes :)
Really not much more to say about this performance. I thought the kids showed spunk and tried very hard but they were just outclassed by a better team displaying better tactics.
It’s too late for this season. Any newcomers will be over priced, mediocre left overs which other top clubs avoided. The smart thing to do is to use this year as an assessment of who to cull from this squad and prepare to try and find some top players for signings in January and early in the following transfer window. Arsene MK IV, starting a new youth program all over again.
1 point out of 9
-8 in GD
The above stats say it all.
@Caribkid,
Don’t blame Bolt, blame that idiotic new false start rule the block-headed IAAF persists with. Bolt will have another chance to dominate in the 200. I too was disappointed by the track results today as I wanted Bekele to win the 10k but it was not to be.
I agree with you about this year being too late. It will have to be a re-building year. But hopefully the builder is not Arsene Wenger. And unlike most re-building years in sports, where a team is in between two successful spurts, we will be re-building from nothing. Total devastation. In fact, forget the prefix re-. It’s just building. Totally fresh and new. Anything else won’t cut it.
@ChicagoGooner,
Don’t blame Bolt at all. I have never seen the reason for that rule. It probably will be changed after this fiasco. To rob the fans of seeing the best athletes compete is unadulterated bullshit.
@Caribkid,
Even more egregious is that it was obvious something like this would happen. It’s not like it blindsided them. Ato Bolden called in like four months ago when he said it was “a matter of if, not when,” one of the sport’s biggest stars gets thrown out of a final at the World Champs or Olympics.
Well, you can’t say we didn’t try to warn ya.
The attitude of the away fans, right at the start of the second half, was awesome, and the players responded well until the 5th goal. Respect and feel sorry for them.
@soccerfreak, Agree, the fans (ours) stood out for me. Could hear them singing loud and clear all the way up till the end. Fantastic bunch!
@soccerfreak,
“the players responded well until the 5th goal.”
:shock:
@vibe4arsenal,
Er, Fred scrap that one below. This is the one the AKB’s will grasp onto.
@vibe4arsenal,
Somehow, I think the margin of the defeat, overshadows a few positives out of this game, which even you people would have observed.
Like it or not, abuse more, less or try to ignore, I dont see most of us, who have invested so heavily emotionally into this team, walk out of the whole thing now.
I like the grit in this team. A good defensive coach, as the commentators kept on repeating, can make a big difference. The presence of Sagna and Verma will help, is obvioius.
@soccerfreak,
Agreed, the fans were great today. Bless their souls.
I have received TONS of texts and facebook messages over this result, that is how EPIC this massacre was.
The best one so far is:
“Szczęsny is now at almost 7 feet from all the stretching today”
@Fred, Heh, samee, I’m glad I’m in Aussie right now and not Kenya. That woulda been unbearable.
And guess what the height of our new south korean striker is (according to wiki)?
@OziKenyan,
That new twerp from the French SECOND division is allegedly a six footer (according to wiki).
I am almost sure he is much shorter than that.
Any manager will do right now. I used to dread 2-0 losses to Man Utd. Oh that seems like a luxury right now.
Bye Arsene. I used to admire him but I don’t want to see him near my team anymore. Please someone make him leave now. I will still not swear at him but 35 more games for someone to restore Arsenal’s dignity.
I need to fetch a ton of pop corn because it will be lotsa fun watching all the AKB blogs try to spin this shit.
WENGER MUST GO.
He should NOT spend a cent more. HE SHOULD JUST FREAKING GO!
@Fred,
The classic retort of the AKB’s now is “I’ve never seen him so angry” or “Wenger looks really ill”.
Basically trying to swerve away from the issue and focus on the mannerisms of a loon.
Did not watch the match. And thank goodness I did not!
I knew Man U would gun us down, but I did not expect they will pull out machine guns and bazookas for good measure too!
Jeez!!!
Coming just ONE day after Alex Ferguson was singing Wenger’s praises … it is just hilarious!
Anyway, this slaughter/massacre of the Wenger Program is VERY, VERY, VERY GOOD for Arsenal in the medium and long term.
As said below, LIFE LONG ARSENAL FAN, Ashley Young, who has been begging to come to Arsenal for years, cost Man U 17 million. Oxlade Marmelade cost 15 million.
Go figure.
This is the PERFECT scoreline to take into the transfer deadline day!!!
@Fred,
The point about Young was made on the post-game show, as well. By Piers Morgan of all people.
As badly as we need help up front, that was nowhere near the problem that the back four was today. League 1 sides defend better. Circus music started playing every time they got near the ball. (Or, rather, the ball flew by them.) We’re not good enough anywhere.
@vibe4arsenal,
Meanwhile in Catalonia, FabreCLASS won his second title in two weeks yesterday.
The lucky bastard jumped off the ship just seconds before it completely submerged.
WENGER MUST GO.
@Fred,
AND Fab scored off beautiful service from Messi. So happy for him. Finally, surrounded by the class he deserves.
(Also nice he took the time to Twitter a jab at Spurs today…sadly, that turned out to be a very short-live gloat.)
I don’t want Wenger near Arsenal in any capacity as of right way. He needs to go to Japan or France. Arsenal never made up for that 6-1 loss and nothing will fix this, not even winning every single trophy. Ivan can resign as well and the board have to leave.
Sick. Absolutely sick. Wenger has finally ruined his legacy. He should be happy with his stubborn money saving ways. Well done Arsene. Well done.
Good luck trying to spend money now because Arsenal lost something today spending money won’t ever fix.
6 goals for United by BRITISH PLAYERS.
The YOUNG players in United, are simply better than Arsenals.
United had a YOUNG team out there, mixed with proven talented ones, in the right positions.
8-2?
Really. ANY manager in the world would be FIRED after a start like this… 6 years of futility… and the team is worse now, than its been in over a decade.
3 days to buy 3 or 4 or even 5 PLAYERS… because this team needs to be TRANSFORMED, not just added to…
the problem is now, who in their right mind would WANT to come to the AFC, after witnessing the best players be sold off, and watching Arsenal get embarrassed today?
Why weren’t ARSENAL in for Ashley Young? I know I mentioned him…
ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC.
Might be the worst display I’ve ever seen as an Arsenal supporter. Wenger just said it was humiliating to let in 8 goals.
Having said that, he also said we were “tired from Wednesday Nights CL match”…
SHOCKING.
No character in the team whatsoever.
That is the 100% reason to get a CAHILL, PARKER, BELLAMY…
tough characters… who take no shit.
ALL 60 MILLION need to be spent.
ALL OF IT.
@stag133,
“That is the 100% reason to get a CAHILL, PARKER, BELLAMY…”
I doubt any of them would want to come here anymore. Maybe Parker, as he’s in the Champo. But if I were a player I’d stay as far as possible from Arsenal.
There was no aspect of Wenger’s legacy that wasn’t absolutely, finally, definitively exposed as fraudulent today. Tactical nous? Of course not. Great young talent? All playing for United.
Wenger says ‘we were weak in some areas’. Only one, really. Management. We were whipped before we walked out onto the pitch.
Then he has the balls to say we were tired from Wednesday. DAG, you really need to loosen up on the profanity here, if the Boss allowed to talk all this shit.
I don’t care if he’s replaced by a block of wood.
Wenger. Must. Go.
Well, well, well. That was the most embarassing game I have ever watched as an Arsenal fan. What hurts on top of it all is that the two best goals were scored by an Arsenal supporter in Ashley young that was bought for 17 million. We could have bought him instead of wasting time hoping Nasri was going to stay another year.
Arsene spent in excess of 12 million on AOC whom his team mates appeared to have no confidence in, should have bought Ashley Young. Why he took of our industrious DM/CM Coquelin for AOC was puzzling. That was a poor decision that contributed to our demise in the 2nd half as all the goals seemed to happen after that event.
Ramsey looked tired and certainly lacked the aggression we needed in the 2nd half, he was often afraid to get stuck in. He needs to be dropped we need more agression in the MF, more balls. I have more confidence in Coquilen or Frimpong than Ramsey at present especially as he has not shown himself to be a creative as we want him to be.
Jenkinson showed his inexperience on more than a few ocassions but I am hopeful he will improve defensively, he is the best crosser in our team.
That beat down should expose our lack of strength and depth but Arsene should be looking at his tactics as much as anything else, the high line is killing us!
I am enjoying this actually.
We need a beat down.
watched the 1st half.
I am about done with this shite.
I won’t watch again unless we spend the money we got from Cesc and Nasri’s sales.
This is just ridiculous.
The Arsenal FC I followed, watched and loved has CEASED to EXIST. It was sold off, like DAG said, systematically.
The only thing worth watching are images of Wenger and his pained looks after every United goal.
Good Luck Arsene and the Board.
Good luck to the lads stuck on the pitch without proper support from the Board and Club.
:poop:
No Sagna? WTF!! We are SCREWED.
Anyone watching the early game? It’s 4-1 to Man City right now. Tottenham will probably be in the top 6 this year and City is ripping them to shreds. It was 4-0 just a second ago. Dzeko scored 2 first half goals, both assisted by……. SAMIR NASRI. Ah well, I’d rather have those millions of pounds that the club will never spend.
@ChicagoGooner, yeah. I’m watching ManCity @ Tottenham.
and ManCity have ARRIVED. They will win trophies this year. They could win the league THIS YEAR. They have depth beyond anyone in the world… and world class players littered all over the pitch… unfortunately 2 of them were ours… and another is suspended…
Nasri looks excellent surrounded by quality players, who only enhance his game…. Cesc will be the same.
These 2 players, Cesc and Nasri, if surrounded by PROPER TALENT, could have led Arsenal to titles the last few years.
Watching them blossom will be painful.
In the meantime, we’ve still done NOTHING to improve the team.
Can’t go anywhere with the Hurricane hitting today, so I might watch my first Arsenal match this season…
I expect a loss.
I expect Arsenal to “not have enough time” to get players replaced that we sold, even though Chelsea and Tottenham will manage it over the next few days.
City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool… that’s your top 4, where Arsenal finishes, is up to the board and Wenger, and if we plan put all that money where their mouth is… spent on quality players, or … if we decide to “ride the storm out” and go with the players we have now, with a few minor additions.
@stag133,
That was my pre-season top-4, though I was a little unsure about Liverpool before I saw them play, but now? No question. We will battle it out with the Totts for 5th. Let’s hope there’s a St. Totteringham’s day this year. (Although with all of these things, the bad short-term option could be the far better one in the long run.)
Now it’s 5-1 to City in stoppage time. Round 1 of Manchester vs. North London was a resounding victory for Manchester this morning, and I fear the northern city will have another resounding victory in Round 2 coming up.
@ChicagoGooner, You think this team will battle for fifth? You are far more optimistic than I am. Jenkinson, gervinho and song will miss the next game. Gibbs will still be injured. There is still no midfield. Forward options are slim and awful. There won’t be “time” to bring in replacements or find the superstar player Wenger thinks is hard to find. This team is going to be lucky to be top half of the table.
Man U 4 – 1 Arsenal.
This would be good for our future :)
the match with United is SHORT TERM.
Frankly, not caring much either way… a draw would be a really good result, and I don’t hold out much hope we’ll win there.
But the remaining days in the transfer window are massive…
it seems Tottenham, are signing all the players I wanted us to get!
Parker & Bellamy.
Well, I know they will make their team tougher to play… and they won’t need ANY time to adapt to the league.
Unbelievablly… we have 3 days left, and we’ve signed nobody of note… 60 MILLION plus whatever we get for Bendtner and Almunia if they are sold… How much will we spend, or are we just taking Sol Campbell again on a free?
Typical Wenger buy, unknown and cheap. If he is clinical he will be worth his weight in gold and although I hate stereotyping, Asians normally bring great work ethic to the table.
Not an exciting buy, especially since only Campbell seems to be someone who could be a striker in our near future.
Never did see Hazzard as a good buy at this point with Ryo and Ox in the wings.
Mata showed what we missed by being cheap. Came on with 15 mins left for Chelsea and totally transformed the game. Architect of the 2nd goal and scored the third. Been touting this guy for 3 years and we failed to capitalize on his buyout clause of 13M because Arsene and Gazidis dawdled while Arsenal burnt.
Manu 3 – 1 Arsenal
1 point from 9 – WTF
@Caribkid,
Campbell going to Lille on loan it seems. Could not get his work permit.
@Caribkid, I STILL find getting that close to Mata the biggest tease of the summer! Arghh. Lol at Campbell. Who’s surprised?
@DaAdminGooner,
Correct, he is a converted Central MF.
I knew it….(about my comments on the previous thread getting buried…..)
Yeah, yeah, we always buy Young….but he’s 26!!!! WTF?…..Hazard will do better in Madrid slotting in for C Ronaldo and A Di Maria, given that we already have young wingers ready to come in for Theo and Gervinho….. Personally I like the idea of our growing multiculturalism…. Maybe the Asian tour showed management where the real money is, and now Young (or is it Park?), along with Ryo, will increase our audience share in the far east…..
Regarding tomorrow’s match…..Djourou at DM?, Arshavin on the pitch? Seems to me that we are patently screwed….. Maybe we could try some sort of 4-4-1-1 with Andrey trying to stay out of RVP’s way without having to run too much. Then a MF with Ramsey and Rosicky (rumored to be off to Germany?!?) with Theo and Ryo or Ox on the other wing? Given that we have little to lose AND that AW doesn’t actually use the term “defensive midfielder,” I’d say go for it…..Maybe the best defense is a strong offense…..(If TV5 and LK6 are healthy, I’d prefer the former at left back, the latter plus Djourou in the middle and Sagna at RB. Jenkinson, who replaced Eboue, plays with a lot of heart, but doesn’t run nearly as well and is likely to get exposed against a superior team with fast wingers……)
Finally, a minor quibble…..I think you’re being a little harsh on Ramsey. The very fact that he’s playing 90 mins twice a week is just what we need (at the moment). He gets time ahead of Arshavin (and others) because, at least, he runs and runs and runs…..His biggest issue (as with Rosicky) is how crazy dependent he is on his right foot, which, when pressurized, can make his final ball less than reliable for maintaining possession. United will be happy to play on the break and we’ll need to avoid bad giveaways….They haven’t been a huge “possession” team for awhile now, and we seem to be morphing in a similar direction…..
Enough said for now…..Hoping for the best tomorrow (and an interesting close to the transfer window) while really just keeping my fingers crossed that it’s (both the match AND the window) not overly demoralizing…..
@HighburyTerraceSteve,
Djourou started his Arsenal career as a DM I believe.
@DaAdminGooner, That may be….And maybe they even use the term in the reserves and youth teams…..(I still prefer my line-up….)
Meanwhile, Liverpool are beating up on another wantaway who is letting his contract run down (Gary Cahill’s Bolton team now trail 3-0)……As with Nasri, maybe this is a positive sign that a transfer is imminent…..
Just to further clarify – I’ve done some more digging on Park Chu-Young – he was a player who was being tracked by United and Liverpool There is an interview on YouTube where Fergie speaks about their tracking his progress.
At the very least he is a replacement for bendtner.