No Really This Should Be Fun: Arsenal v Wigan, Match Preview.
Hope Springs Eternal?
Oh for the love of Pete would some one please end this season? I mean last week United draw to Bolton and Arsenal lose to Spurs. Then this weekend with the league at stake Chelsea go and lose to that same Spurs. Seriously does anyone want to make any progress towards wrapping up this season?
For Arsenal fans many are asking themselves – is there hope. I mean a win against Wigan and they are back to 3 points off of Chelsea with 3 to play. Is it real hope or does False Hope Spring Eternal? Seriously, with the way the top three ping pong back and forth in mediocrity to sublime anyone one of them could wind up on top and more than likely just because they happened to win on that weekend.
On a Saturday that saw United eke out a win with no less than 15 seconds left on clock and saw Chelsea absolutely imlode and lose to Spurs – the league still has no idea who will this thing. Arsenal for their part face off against Wigan. A team who are now five points off the relegation zone. They managed that feat by drawing with relegation leaders and Harry Redknapp rape victims Portsmouth. They have a good manager in Roberto Martinez who is trying to get the Latics to play in a free flowing attacking style. Frankly though, the style isn’t befitting of his talent and they must still look in the rear view mirror to make sure they stay out of danager.
Arsenal need to be on their toes with this team. More so than they were on Wednesday. Chelsea and Liverpool were victims at the DW Stadium. They have had a penchant for taking some big scalps and with most of the Arsenal first teamers running around with the physio it could be another scalp they collect.
The sporting cliche’s have been used in abundance with this Arsenal squad this season. It’s a must win, they have to to keep pressure on the top – yada yada yada. The perspective right now depends on how view the season so far. Is it a success in that they have managed to stay in the title hunt despite having pretty much every member of their first team on the trainers table at one point for the season. Hell they’ve had 6 of their starting 11 on the trainer’s table for a minimum of 2 months. The other view is – its just another season without a trophy, Arsene has lost the plot, youth won’t get us anywhere, (fill in your own here).
For my perspective, if Arsenal are truly on an upward swing after two disasterous seasons then a win is the imperative. Not for the title reason but to show that the players have progressed, that they are indeed maturing and that everything that has been said about them is true. Yeah a win would be nice because it puts them right back into the title hunt. But it would be equally nice to show that the mentality we’ve – okay I’ve been talking about is true. If they’ve matured they need to move beyond the loss of Wednesday.
The line up for the match should be interesting. Denilson is a question mark and Song is out. Song’s presence is being missed more than Fabregas. Against Barca he was key to controlling Messi in the first match. In the second leg without him, Messi went wild. Without Song in the midfield against Tottenham, the defensive cover was weak and we did not get the ball back too often from that vantage point. Throw in the starting tandem of Vermaelen and Gallas form the defense and replaced by the dynamic duo of Campbell and Silvestre, well its an advernture almost worth watching (with one eye shut).
Also, while he played for 20 minutes on Wednesday, Robin Van Persie could start the match. It will be interesting whether Wenger puts Nicky B in the centre and RvP on the right wing or vice versa. Either way, the RvP adds a solid proven attacker to the team. He pairs up with an in form Nicky B and possibly Nasri on the other side and from an attack stand point its not a bad trio to have.
As for Abou Diaby – a quick word here. I suspect we will see a good show out of the lad. He hasn’t beenthe same since his last stint on the injury list. But its no longer a big match and Diaby does show up for the lesser matches.
How Does It All Play Out:
Let’s be blunt shall we. Arsenal controlled the Spurs match but Spurs were hungrier and made their chances count. Arsenal like playing against Wigan adn they have scoed four goals in each of their last few meetings. With the need to reassert themselves for now and for the future – Arsenal will come in hungry and on the attack.
Players to Watch:
Arsenal: Robin Van Persie. He’s baaaacccckkkk!!! He came on briefly against SPurs and in the first few moments made a beauty pass, had four shots and set Bendtner up for the shot. It goes with out saying what this season could’ve been like with a fit Robin. Simply put he changes the dynamic of play for the Arsenal attack.
Wigan: Hugo Rodallega. He’s killed Chelsea and Liverpool this year. Arsene has an eye on him. So should the Arsenal defenders and the Gunners faithful.
Probable Starting XI:
This should be fun. Really.
Injuries/Suspensions:
Arsenal: Arshavin (calf), Gallas (calf), Song (knee) Djourou (knee), Fabregas (leg), Ramsey (leg), Gibbs (foot)
Wigan: Caldwell (suspended), Thomas (thigh), Kingson (groin)
Last Meeting (EPL)
Arsenal: 4
Wigan: 0
Leading Scorers:
Arsenal: Fabregas: 19 (15 league) Bendtner: 12 (6 league) Arshavin: 11 (9 league)
Wigan: Rodallega: 9 goals (9 league); N’Zogbia: 6 goals (4 league)
League Form:
Arsenal: LWDWW
Wigan: DLLWL
Match Officials:
Referee: Lee Mason
Assistant Referees: Jake Collin & Mick McDonough
Fourth Official: Mark Atkinson
TV Broadcast:
US: Foxsoccer.tv
UK: Sky Sports 1
Online Feeds:
www.atdhe.net
GAMEDAY CHAT will be open: www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
YAMA Prediction:
Arsenal: 3
Wigan: 0
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Gameday lads. And this is as quiet as it has ever been here. Good reason too… Doesn’t seem like there’s much to play for. But that said I hope the players are up for this. I’d sooner see Spurs get 4th than City and all they stand for (same reasoning as Fred). On one hand, City getting 4th would make them a bigger threat for the title next season. On the other, it would make the race next season even more exciting. Can’t make up my mind which I want. And it would be funny to see Tottenham lose out again after probably their best performances in a long long time.
Saw this article:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-no-room-to-move-in-my-squad
I had no idea about that rule!! It would probably mean that we have to forfeit some of our games because we don’t have enough players. What is going on? Anyone know anything about this?
The PR BS at ARsenal.com is on at full swing –
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-why-song-isn-t-a-centre-back
This says Song is NOT a CB. Ah, remember the time, Wenger vehemently said Song is NOT a DM. Hmm….
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-keepers-have-most-difficult-job
This says keepers have a difficult job and that is why ManU have signed van der Saar at 40 years of age. Yeah, then pray why did you get rid of Lehmann who was much younger than 40 and far better than anyone else?
The same article says – “Wenger is known for his tactical nous”.
LOL !!!
If you want a good laugh, then read the numerous articles on Arsenel.com. Since the Spurs debacle, there have been like about 10 per day.
His comment about practicing seems to suggest Song may practice as CB today… Dunno. Would probably prefer him there to Silvestre though that does leave us short at DM…
Found this on YouTube – Henry extolling about Fabregas. Fabregas comes in later and look at the joy on his face to be talked of in this vain by the Arsenal legend –
Handball or not Henry is pure class –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDLLASE89L4
Pure class Thierry. Always has been and still is my all-time favourite player. I don’t there’s anyone in the game who runs with the ball quite as gracefully as Titi. Beautiful to watch. The clip where he’s “advising” Cesc to “say yes” (as a joke obv) always cracks me up…
COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC:
It looks like my MLS team – the Philadelphia Union could be the next home of former Arsenal Player Robert Pires. His agent has confirmed that the Union have been making regular contact since February.
And the Union are playing Valencia this summer tooo.
I could actually grow to like the MLS
that would be cool… Pires in Philly, Henry in NY, Freddie in Seattle!
and U.Bolt is at the Penn Relays!
;)
I know MLS is becoming an Arsenal retirement home.
Loved Robert. Really happy to see him do well anywhere, anytime.
Anyone remember the heyday of the NASL? Pele, Franz Beckenbauer, Giorgio Chinaglia…even George Best flashed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2HWUbFGHMU
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8636722.stm
Wenger says – respect Ade !!
Yes, respect Ade… and when he scores a goal, throw things at WENGER not Adebayor!
LOL
I hope they sing the Vieira song to PV4… best midfielder the club ever had.
Amen to that. Certainly in my time as a Gooner. (Man, it feels so different now, doesn’t it?)
feels different?
It is QUITE different now Vibe.
we go into matches HOPING the team shows up ready to play, and there was a time not to long ago, we KNEW the team was going to WIN, somehow, they’d win.
“feels different?
It is QUITE different now Vibe.”
The understatement was intentional, stagg. ;-)
GREAT NEWS ARSENAL FANS!
You don’t even need to bother watching the ManCity match!
From Soccernet:
Arsene Wenger believes Lukasz Fabianski will prove to be a “great ‘keeper” for Arsenal and will give the Pole the chance to made amends for his mistake against Wigan when Manchester City visit Emirates Stadium on Saturday.
——–
In the immortal words of Charlie Brown… “GOOD GRIEF”
In the original article, http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-i-still-think-fabianski-will-be-a-great-keep, Wenger does not say in which league or country ;) I am sure he will be a great goal keeper in […insert awful league of choice]…
And if Wenger said he would be one at Arsenal, then I would say in which division would Arsenal be playing for Fabianski to be great. Not the EPL.
Also this from Wenger: Of course, he was disappointed on Sunday, but I believe he was not the only one involved in our defeat.”
No, you don’t say. you mean it wasn’t all the keeper’s fault? How that can that be. While no names are being mentioned, can Wenger finally throw his name on the blame list. Let’s add the board’s name just to keep him company. Heck, let’s add the fans as well. And then I have to work on seeing how the ash cloud can be blamed.
Some things Myles says is so hilarious –
“The club has an old board, an old manager and a young squad.But Arsenal need a younger board, a younger manager, and an older team.”
“In the longer term, Arsenal need to become a big club, rather than a club with a big turnover.”
“There is no mystery about how you become a big club. You don’t need the Boston Consulting Group to do a Strategic Review to tell you how to become a big club. You win trophies. Success makes you a big club.”
hilarious maybe, but also some truth in there…
Myles is clever
Ha. Amazing. Go to Italy for 10 days, come back, and absolutely nothing has changed but the Volcano. Not for the Arsenal, so, naturally, not here. Please forgive the typos that are sure to follow. Monster jet lag.
I followed the Club on my mobile, almost exclusively by reading YAMA (not the most mobile friendly site this). Really, what’s to say that many of us haven’t been saying months/years ago? I agree with the people I usually agree with, and disagree with those I usually do (though their numbers are clearly fewer right now, because beyond ‘new-Stagg’/old 2004 stagg, the rest don’t really have the heart to sing their old songs…looks likes one or two may be seeing some light, though). Kiwi, CK, Maz, et al. Right, right, right.
Okay, I guess one thing has changed. While I generally agree with Mazza, I’ve never agreed with his four year long call for Wenger to be let go. I do now. I have zero faith the club will ever win anything under AW again. Some will continue to argue against the evidence. Blame injuries, the refs, tectonic plate shifts, whathaveyou.
Others will argue that winning at Arsenal just isn’t all that important, as long as we play a really pretty looking game against a mid-table team every few weeks, beat the Big Boys at least once every couple of years, continue to be third best Club in England and one of the eight best in Europe, and pay down the debt against the expense of winning. Like Maz, I also know there is no chance of Arsene leaving under anything other than of his own volition. He’s managing an efficient little factory, and the bosses upstairs are probably thrilled with the solid production.
I know new-Stagg/2004’s mantra it’s that’s been an exciting season, we’re in competition for the title, etc. It’s been an exciting season FOR THE LEAGUE because of the mediocrity of the topsides and the appearance of competitiveness. Some of the middle clubs have gotten better, the relegation battle, all very nice for the League. But WE were no more a real threat to win the League (or anything else) this year than any of the past five, and most still posting now knew that all along.
If utter predictability is the new exciting, the terraces will be thrilled that ‘kings of third place’ is easy to rhyme.
Just the way it is. This is my Club, hot, cold, lukewarm. Eventually, something will change. Hopefully, for the better. UTA! (And I mean that as much as I mean the rest of it.)
hope you enjoyed Italy! I am sure Roma is wild with the chance to win Serie A!
If the board decide they are interested in WINNING trophies sometime, then there might be a bit of pressure applied to Arsene.
You just have to adjust your goals for the team, as the club has adjusted them for itself, or… you’ll go CRAZY.
I was at that edge, and I just walked back from it … accepted where we are as a club, and what we are trying to do, make money… lower the debt, and stabalize financially in an un-stable financial world.
Arsene’s the man to keep that going.
I really do get where you’re coming from, and the reality of what you’re saying.
But I disagree that it makes for exciting football. AFC is content to maintain a status quo of <. I'm not going to get too low about it, but it's nothing ot get high on either.
welcome back Vibe
the style of play is what is entertaining, which is what Wenger wants as well.
I would prefer a better mix of players, some muscle with the finesse, options… young and experienced…
but again, that’s NOT Wenger…
I hammered my head against the wall about this as well, and its not going to change either…
Wenger plays the style of football he wants, with mostly FINESSE players, young players he can mold… (which is why Arshavin isn’t exactly the model Arsenal player)…
Enjoy it for what it is, things MIGHT change a little, but I wouldn’t expect big changes.
It is why I hope for a takeover, be it Kroenke or Usmanov, it doesn’t mean anything will change at all… but it MIGHT… it makes it more likely.
Yeah, stagg. But foreplay is entertaining, too. You wanna do that for five years straight, without, you know…finishing properly. ;-)
Thnx Kiwi. You gave me a lot of good reading on training station benches throughout L’Italia.
Welcome back Vibe.
Geez, four years it is. I think even Myles was a hippie optimist back then ;)
Thnx, Maz. If you should happen to see them kicking my luggage around Heathrow, I’d appreciate if you would mail that back. I’m thinking BA may not be on the proverbial case.
(In truth, you’re welcome to the dirty clothes. It’s the really big bottle of Limoncello we’d like back.)
I also predict that Spurs will crash at ManU tomorrow.
Two weeks ago I would have agreed.
Spurs are playing with a lot of confidence plus Lennon likely back…..a huge boost for their attack on the right wing. Bale on the left and you have a lot for ManU to cope with.
The way the season has been going, nothing would surprise me.
atleast 3-0 loss by Spurs. I think Arsenal should win by that margin at home tomorrow but…..
Arsenal to win by 3 tomorrow?
you can get some massive odds on that Sachin, MASSIVE.
I’d be happy with a draw.
I am not a betting man :) Good thing too. Then I would have had lost more than just emotional investment and would have felt even worse.
Are there odds on 3 (not counting Sylvinho) former Arsenal players scoring a goal each tomorrow? They might have a good shot to score from a corner because hard to miss when the ball is dropped on one’s head.
A City win tomorrow is 3/1 odds. Wow!! Clearly, a lot of people have lost faith in this Arsenal squad.
Normally, I would fear Blackburn away a lot more but I guess these are not normal circumstances anymore. I still think we will at least draw (if not win).
But what do I know (copyright Steve).
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST: Adebayor will be part of the BBC’s World Cup punditry team this summer. What is the world coming to?
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6109010,00.html
I have to refer to that super club book again..sorry to keep referring to that book again and again but that book is just too relevant. In the book, Adams mentioned that Wenger wanted to get rid of some of GG’s players the summer after he arrived (summer of 97). So Adams and the rest worked hard to prove their worth, adapted to Wenger’s new ways and managed to get Wenger to change his mind. The rest is history as Wenger’s methods combined with GG’s defense lead to that amazing double. In recent years, Pires, Bergkamp also have had to prove their worth on a per season basis. All these guys were experienced professionals. Yet, the current team has players who really do not have to prove their worth. If 30+ age players had to prove their worth, shouldn’t there be a category for 20 somethings to establish themselves? The 30+ year olds had to prove their fitness and does that mean if the 20 somethings can do that, they are fine? I can understand tying these 20(ish) old players to long contracts but they should also be judged. Or has the criteria for player evaluation changed to only having players who can last the full 90 minute and make some decent passes (side ways, 45 degree, 35 degree, whatever)?
Wenger’s reactions of throwing a jacket or kicking a bottle indicate that he clearly has higher expectations from some of these players. Yet, he is the one who should know about each and every player’s strength and weakness because they are all his signings. He didn’t inherit them from another manager. So if he is upset at the players giving up, does that mean he held them to a higher standard? Or maybe a lot of the current Arsenal players are amazing in training but on game day don’t show up. But on game day, so many excuses come into play. If the pitch is not perfect, then that is used as a reason because the Arsenal players are perfect on a good pitch in training. If the opponent kicks an Arsenal player, then that is an excuse because if the opponent did not kick the Arsenal player, then the player would have had a perfect game. And then there is the ref who is looking to foil Arsenal (heck I have used this excuse for a certain Oct 2004 fixture). Oh, the rain also effects the Arsenal players because it interferes with their vision as the rain drops fall on the player’s eyes thereby preventing them from making a perfect split second pass.
The problem is that in the past too many excuses have been used to cover up for players who failed to show up on big games or crashed under pressure. What excuse was there for the humiliating home defeat by Man Utd this year? What excuse was there for the Arsenal players to throw away a two goal lead at home to Spurs (of all the bloody teams) last season in the last minute? Arsenal led that game with about 20 minutes to go and had no reason to drop points, yet they did. But as per Wenger each set back was meant to be treated on its own and the excuses ranged from bad luck to someone else’s fault. However, this last week all the excuses have run out. There is no one else to blame now. Not even injuries or bad luck. Which is why things appear painful and I am not surprized if any fan who dares utter anything will be in trouble.
The game against Man City will be an interesting assessment. If the team can thrash City, good. But if the team fails to show up, oh my…not sure how ugly things might get.
Interesting angle Sachin, 2 sets of rules, one for the experienced and another for the younglings. The reward setup at Arsenal FC has become whacky.
It’s like an engineering firm signing on apprentices and paying them as much as experienced tradesmen. You can’t expect them to do the job yet you pay them as though they are.
Then the experienced tradesmen in the firm when they turn 50 get put on short term employment contracts and have to prove every year that they’re good enough.
Meanwhile on-the-job the experienced guys have to try and carry the highly paid apprentices, they have to work even harder to try and get the job done to compensate for those learning on the job.
Not surprisngly the job is never finished as quickly nor to as high a standard as the clients would like.
Upon receiving customer complaints the CEO dismissively waves them away “Don’t they understand our values? We’re training these young guys, why would thy expect a better product?”. He rolls his eyes, baffled that more and more people need to be told something so obvious.
Kiwi, we live in the real world. :(
Exactly, paid sport is surreal. That’s why all this talk of values makes me vomit. :-O
Brilliant! Amazing analogy Kiwi. Like we talked about above, Arsene has his model and will stick by it even though evidence points against it.
on the responsibility and age thing. Brazil held in inquiry about what happened with the 1998 World Cup loss. Ronaldo was asked to testify. I always found that trial remarkable especially because the weight of a nation’s expectations were on a 21 year old but not many companies would ever give a 21 year old much weight or even consider his/her ideas. The nature of sports is so different in that kids are groomed to win at an early age.
The olympics is a case where young young kids are trained to win gold. If the Arsenal board were to be in charge of running the olympics, they would give instructions to the coach to do enough to enable the kids to finish in the top 3 yet not demand gold as the board would not have money for all the extra training required for gold medal hunts. In complying, the coach would pick a random set of kids and not all with excellent talent and nurture them to just compete. The kids would then compete half heartedly and won’t show a fire to win. And then there is the case of some kids not having the quality to win gold.
All speculation really. But the 4-0 loss to Man Utd in the F.A Cup two years was one of the most heartless performance by an Arsenal team. It was clear they didn’t care and if the player’s didn’t care, then something must have transmitted to them from le boss.
And I really want this 4th place Champions league spot taken away. So many teams (including Arsenal) are just happy to finish 4th. Absurd. I would like to see the CL to be for the top 2 teams only with the third place team going to the Europa Cup. The Carling Cup and F.A Cup winners also get a chance for the Europa league but teams 4-7 in the league get nothing.
Won’t happen.
it would only happen if the FA Cup and CC teams were big teams.
if it were Portsmouth, they’d find a way to screw them out of getting into Europe, and put Liverpool in there.
like when the rules were changed to allow 5 English teams in the CL because Everton had the audacity to take 4th spot? :)
sort of!
ummm, but Liverpool WON THE CL!
So, I’ll give them a break on that one.
But 7th place?
why not just say the FA will PICK the team that goes to the Europa league, based on how they feel…
meaning = fuck off small teams, you can’t get in.
Just some info on why Manu owes so much money.
The Glazers financed the purchase and added the cost of purchase to the balance sheets of the club. Ergo, instant debt. They also did not get favorable financing terms and therefore their debt repayment schedule is extremely high. So much so that the interest portion was never paid in full and therefore the principal amount borrowed increased instead of decreasing.
It’s like buying a housing with no money down with an escalating variable interest only loan, renting the house out and collecting a salary for managing the property, and refinancing at a higher amount each year.
Nice business if you are allowed to do it.
Thanks for reiterating that CK.
ManU FC did nothing wrong, it was their bad luck to be purchased by the Glazers. The Glazers would argue they simply adjusted the debt to equity mix.
It could easily happen to us unless rules are implemented…. but if you’re in luv with Wenger and blinded by a dislike of ManU you won’t see the truth no matter what people say. It’s comfortable to label ManU as bad and us good.
I’m not sure if I agree with your analogy.
Because if someone buys your house, you exit the premises, the buyer is taking possession, and you do not care how they finance.
Wouldn’t it be logical for the ManU board to be privy to the terms any buy out? Shouldn’t we assume that those on the board have a background in financial dealings?
Since we did not read about any board objections, I can assume there was board approval & a reason or a need for the buy out? If the club were operating profitably, then why sell?
(maybe they did need some injection of capital)
Obviously, THE CLUB SCREWED UP to allow the sale under these terms. On the books, they are $1 billion in debt and last year made $6-1/2 million pounds profit after the sale of Ronaldo.
sure. manu bad. arsenal good.
so the FA and EPL have decided to SCREW Portsmouth.
Very nice. The people who ruined the club financially are
long gone… the players are playing for their footballing lives,
upset after upset to get to the final… the supporters have
been MAGNFICENT, even after getting relegated… probably BETTER
after getting relegated… and they say, FUCK OFF Pompey, you
can’t play in the Europa League… because we want to reward
the 7th place team in the league…? (which could possibly be Liverpool)
We wouldn’t want Liverpool NOT to be in Europe… can’t have that.
as usual, the supporters get shit on…
I hope they somehow have their day … get the breaks, and beat
Chelsea to win the FA Cup… and the players, post match… when interviewed, each tell the FA, you’re a bunch of spineless ass-holes, f-off.
Last night I watched the Wigan match for the first time. It wasn’t easy to sit through the last 15 minutes.
Many posting here have been thorough in analysis, but I did see something that stood out.
Sol and Silvestre do not have the same comfort and skill for playing passes upfield. The lateral pass, yes. Compared to Song, Gallas, & Vermaelen, they play too many long balls – similar to Almunia punting the ball upfield.
With the addition of Vermaelen, Gallas’s play improved. Both players can take the ball forward with composure and start the attack, actually giving us an extra attacking midfielder at that moment. Sol and Silvestre (maybe because of their age and styles of previous teams) aren’t good at going forward with the ball at their feet.
This really was a problem for our midfield as most of Sol’s clearances were just that – 50/50 balls. Probably the same happened in the Spurs match.
Contributing to our midfield woes and lack of ball possession was the fact that the referee, Lee Mason, was wearing a Wigan jersey in the second half.
Anyway, it is what it is. We must regroup and motivate ourselves to the task of City on Saturday.
It’s always the referee’s fault.
Its FACT, according to you, that he was favoring Wigan.
Brilliant.
I made an observation about the officiating in the 2nd half,from my view DID influence our possession and ability to maintain our attack.
Stag – sometimes your thoughts reflect wisdom and insight; however, many times you twist the words of posters to fit your rebuke, marinated in a sarcastic tone.
Arsesession… you typed it… I just re-typed it.
I don’t have a clue how you could watch the match against Wigan, and blame ANYBODY, expect the players on Arsenal, and the manager of Arsenal.
The referee had no impact on the loss. up 2-0 with 11 minutes left.
No penalties awarded, nobody sent off for Arsenal.
WE CHOKED.
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/2010/04/how-missing-your-central-back-pairing-handicaps-the-attack/
I agree Steve a lot of good musing happening.
Does anybody else get the feeling something’s amiss with Arsenal Football Club’s prescribed view of being a good fan? It doesn’t sit well with me but it’s hard to put your finger on why.
Frankly, I think they’re becoming a bit precious. It strikes me that Arsenal FC under Wenger has become an extremely controlled environment and this is just another way that this is playing out. I think Sachin’s book on Arsenal FC (could be a) Super Club makes this point.
I mean Arsenal need to decide what they want. Is it passionate support or a compliant audience? If you want passionate support then you empathise with your fans. You understand what they want. Their aspirations and yours blend. Do you want passionate supporters that follow a team through all seasons, then you show them respect. The other route is to treat a day out at The Emirates like an evening at the opera or a concert. It’s purely another source of entertainment. You pay your money every so often and if you don’t like it you go elsewhere. Trouble is Arsenal need a significant proportion of season ticket holders including some VERY expensive season ticket holders to make this sports business tick. So the evening at the opera approach isn’t in practise a valid route.
Frankly I sense a rather arrogant attitude from Arsenal FC. They think they know best to the extent that they feel they can reinvent the fans aspirations as well. Wenger, the players and the club management/board are trying to dilute the fans passion and aspirations – we’re being told that a diet of CL football is something we should dine out on and celebrate. WRONG. With every season that has passed even MORE fans feel disenchanted with the performance and strategy of the club.
It’s only the goodwill that Wenger has amassed over the early and very successful part of his time at the club that has kept many fans and some in the media believing he has the secret formula. Well it hasn’t worked has it? Even this season he started by saying we had to win something. Then he chucked the LC (ritual) then the FAC (a new ritual) and gave the team little chance to last the distance in the EPL and CL. There is just too much disconnect between what Wenger says and what he does. When a guy like Frank McLintock, the ex-double winning captain and season ticket holder (box) feels he has to go public because he can’t understand what is happening you know the workings of the club have become extremely clouded.
Back to the being- a-fan-thing. Being a fan of a big club is not a complex thing. Any sport, anywhere, anytime, it’s the same. You want to win. That’s it. Sure there are subplots that intrigue different elements of your support yet the bottom line is the bottom line. You like the challenge of your team competing and winning. Now, not all teams are BIG, that’s reality. Yet when you are big the goal is really easy. Only Arsenal FC under Wenger in the period 2005-2010 has the arrogance to change the rules in all of sport throughout the ages. The goal now for a big club is 3rd or 4th. That’s it. CL qualification and allowing Wenger to satisfy his fetish for a youth experiment. And if you don’t cheer this on your BAD. Sorry that’s nonsense, we’re not here to indulge Wenger’s whims. Let’s get things back in alignment – he’s paid millions to achieve our aspirations.
sorry so looooooooooooooooooong!!
Kiwi,
I tend to go on a bit myself….so, no worries (as they say)….
From my noob-tard perspective, I have to say that I think you’re a bit off (but still, I feel your pain…)
Big-time club football is in a very special place at the moment as the sport moves from being mainly experienced live and in the stadium to being seen world-wide on television. The audience is growing exponentially….
And unlike American sports which are (ironically) organized with various “field-leveling” elements (revenue sharing, drafts, etc.) Club football is, for the moment, financially wide open….These sports by comparison, have more or less maxed out their TV revenues…not so with Club Football.
Pair this with the fact that the tribalism or “hard-core” support of various clubs is a very real, if slightly anachronistic element, and an extremely attractive quality–everybody wants to “belong,” with passion, to a club….and the recipe is there for serious, unprecedented growth in revenues for a club like Arsenal, as long as we get our TV time (by staying in the top 4.)
And Arsenal, even if we’re not winning trophies, represent something (to the global fan).
Under AW we represent a certain purity in our desire to play attacking football. We represent “internationalism,” thumbing our noses at overpaying for English talent (with one obvious exception…) and, if you happen to turn on the soccer channel on an average Saturday, or Wednesday, we tend to be romping to victory. We are easy on the eyes (of the world).
Sure, we’re not Barca, but our boys (with a couple of exceptions) don’t roll around on the pitch and then pop back up fit as a fiddle). And we’re not Real nor AC Milan (but we don’t carry the baggage of a Fascist History, nor do we tolerate racism of any sort. And, sorry, but history does matter….)
When I was in Highbury, I would often walk past the huge concrete letters spelling ARSENAL and invariably would find tourists taking photos of themselves posing on them. This trend will not decline.
So, Arsenal are using their history and their hard-core support (some might say cynically) to attract a new, vast and hugely wealthy audience…And they’re altering the product to attract that audience, emphasizing a bright future (everybody loves an underdog…) and a certain type of football (often unseen by the more careful observer). For those of us who have been hooked, even in these dire times, it’s not so easy to spit it out and swim away….
Finally (and you we’re apologizing about long posts….) The fancy boxes will continue to be sold as long as London is a hub of international business, and we have a generation of boys from the area who threw in early for the Arsenal (see for example, “Fever Pitch”) and are making it in the big city (“it’s a write-off!”)….As long as the prospect of trophies is within reason, and the promise of a happy night in trendy (or at least safe) Islington is available, the boys will pony up the cash….
Thanks for making me feel better with your long post Steve ;-)
….so what am I supposed to disagree with?! :-)
I take it you’re saying that Arsenal are in tune with their supporters? Or at least the supporters they are targeting? Is that correct (not trying to put words on your page)?
Winning isn’t vital?
@ Kiwi, we have 40,000 people on a waiting list for tickets, so that gives the Arsenal Football Club CARTE BLANCHE to do whatever they like.
I believe they prefer the fans to be “day out” fans, going to one or two matches per year… regular fans can’t afford season tickets to Arsenal.
@ HTS… ummm… Arsenal are viewed by casual fans as lovable LOSERS. We play a nice style, but get our asses KICKED by United and Chelsea … regularly.
Every “big” match, I brought a few people to watch, who don’t normally watch the EPL.
We got stomped almost every match… so the outsiders perception, is that we aren’t very good!
so if Arsenal are going for the casual fan, and Arsenal’s big matches are being shown… we’ll have to actually win a game!
I don’t believe the board cares at all as long as we’re top 4, and Wenger is selling for profit, and buying bargains…
We’ll see what the board do in the next year or two, faced with a few MASSIVE bids for our best player. In the past, they’ve taken the $$$$.
I agree with you man, have said as much, the current board is too fractured to seek anything more than a sense of stability both on-field and financially.
It takes leaders with vision to aspire to even bigger things, we’re taking a breather (probably a decade), when Dein walked out the door so did that sense of aspiration.
Good stuff from everybody…Plenty of passion AND good writing…
Nice to hear a supporter of the “youth project” (joshuad) on the need for our boys to grow a spine…I agree. Also good to hear DAG chime in with his thoughts. Thanks again for creating the site and keeping it rolling….
We’re coming back (again and again) to a few major talking points.
1, What does AW say to the boys? What does he emphasize? What kind of culture does he create? He does protect them (which, overall, I think is good) but I have a feeling that some important basic stuff is getting missed (i.e., cultivating the desire for results and the key elements in getting them and holding them, etc.) in favor of technical stuff. The players need support but they also need to accept the pressure of playing for Arsenal…and they need to deal with it (Fabianski, etc…)
2, Our finances: Buying name players vs giving cushy salaries to younger players (trusting our scouting/academy etc.) The management at the club is taking a very different approach and openly rejecting the need to “show ambition.” The idea is that the “trophies will come,” but clearly with each one that goes elsewhere, the pressure grows. In the board-room, there is an obvious attempt to avoid the debt-laden practices of a takeover by keeping multiple large shareholders. But how long can that hold out? We all go round and round about these things, supporting our predispositions about the future (hope, fear, etc.) and our feelings about the past with whatever statistic or headline we have seen lately (or the same statements we trot out over and over and over). It’s fine to construct arguments with the information we have, and it’s also fine to say that we believe the management has more info than we do, so we’re gonna trust them. I feel like I’m just trying to learn as much as I can (by watching, reading, sifting through the “news”) and I (for the most part) appreciate seeing all the other interpretations.
The summer will be interesting. (And the headlines will be coming fast and furious.) I’m curious about what happens in South Africa and how it will affect us and the clubs we aspire to compete with. Hopefully Chamakh is coming and Cesc is staying (Arshavin, Gallas, Sol, others?). There seems unanimous agreement about strengthening at the back….We’ll see about that too. It’s likely the top of the transfer market will continue a bit out of whack, esp. if Man City get up for a CL spot. (We might do ourselves a favor by beating them this weekend and helping Spurs to that goal….?) Still you would think we could do our business in the middle ranges and position ourselves well for next season.
But back to the “culture”…. We are not winning the league this season and it’s a crying shame. Even though the teams ahead dominated us in direct competition, it was ours for the taking if we only had the maturity and tenacity to get the needed (and available) results from those below, who we outclassed in spite of our incredible injuries. Gazidis talked about getting the “first trophy” to spur our belief, and the teams above us kept trying to put it in our hands. Like the 2nd goal Wigan scored, we fumbled it. In my sports career the pain of losing was something that motivated me (and my team) but things were A LOT easier once we had tasted the glory of winning.
Anyhow, just some of my current thoughts and some appreciation for the site here….
Read this.:-o
http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=1654
DAG
5 years isn’t patient?
Interesting parallel to Penn State (altho I don’t know anything about them). Sadly I can’t think of a football parallel.
Not sure about your Paddy comment?
It’s hard not to draw the conclusion that our dressing room culture is now one of low expectation. As you yourself say the “squad is young and it will take time (to) develop”. When you say “realistic” I think you mean that Arsene doesn’t expect success of them now – it might happen but it isn’t expected. That’s my point in a nutshell. The difference between us is that you’re happy to tolerate this as part of an ultimately successful grand plan. I find that success unlikely and the strategy unnecessarily extreme, skewed as it is by our managers own preferences. Because of our positions we view a lot of what is happening differently. Ask yourself the question how did he win titles in 1998, 2002 and 2004 – when our revenue base was much lower? He did it by being pragmatic. He balanced pragmatism with his footballing principles and used GG’s defence and a brilliant dutchman.
In all honesty it’s good that a proportion of fans stay positive, but that doesn’t mean time will prove them correct.
Hey guys – I haven’t come out and said much on this as I was completely gutted. Yeah I wear my red badge on my heart.
Anyway – I got to disagree with a lot about the “culture” that Arsene is supposedly breeding – or not breeding. How do you know? Are you going solely on the face to the press/media? I mean what do you expect – a manager HAS to keep an optimistic face at all time. You may not agree with that or like that. The easiest way to lose your players is to PUBLICLY scold them in the media just to make irate fans like you happy.
But is there anyone here who can say what Arsene says to his time on the training pitch or in the dressing room? No. Is it always a blow dryer speech? Most likely not. I don’t think it’s Arsene’s nature to be that way. However, based on everytyhing I have read about him, it would be akin to how your parents made you feel when you let them down. Do I know this. No. It’s just a hunch.
But I doubt there is any culture of no expecation being cultivated. To me its more of realistic expectations. The squad is young and it will take time develop. Realistically since this crop of youngsters came in, it is the first time we have really been competitive. That is why the rhetoric from club and players this year was about ability to win silverware. They were buying into it. Maybe the only one who didn’t was Arshavin. But everyone else believed.
I have to liken Arsene’s situation to Joe Pa at Penn State. Years of perennially competing teams suddenly a 5 year period of losing. Penn State faced with asking its iconic coach to retire. Joe Pa publically saying give my group time (And changing offensive philosophies) and now we Penn Staters are enjoying a rise in promise over the last 3 years. We are back to getting top 10 recruiting classes. Joe Pa is back to being called a genius. And we are always in the top ten and in a bowl game.
However, being a fan means being patient is not part of the equation.
Two things I saw from earlier –
1. I absolutely believe Arsene had an impact on the young AND old players that came in here. Henry clearly points out it was Arsene who devleoped him. It was Adams who said Arsene lengthened his career.
2. To Kiwi – I think Paddy would say – can I get on the pitch so I can play in the World Cup. Sorry Paddy is a shell of his former self and isn’t the leader he was.
Ummm, yeah… you are obviously a Nittany Lion supporter, so I don’t wanna burst your bubble…
but while they are back to being GOOD after being mediocre for 5 years… Penn State is NOT in a National Title hunt, not seriously.
And… the difference is, in college football, players leave… they can’t stay long-term!… by the time they start, in Junior or Senior year, they are gone.
So, the coaching philosophy SHOULD be completely different.
I’ll say this, Arsenal loses its Seniors every 4 years too! but they are sold for nice tidy profits!
JoePa, should retire!
Picking up on Sachin’s point about the complacency in the squad with no one demanding ‘winning’. Arsene has very much bred a culture of ‘no expectation’ over the last 5 or so years. When your only vocalised objective is CL qualification that message easily transmits to a youngish squad who have never won anything. This new mentality would never have been accepted under the squads led by Adams or Vieira. Indeed, Vieira had an annual yet subtle battle with Wenger every off-season where he questioned the clubs ambition. What would he say now???
Vieira has said, even after he left… that Arsenal need to bring in experienced players.
We lack AMBITION.
That’s pretty apparent, as the GOAL in our PLAN is, to remain competitive and in the Top 4.
Our goal is NOT to win trophies, if it means we won’t make a profit, and it slows lowering the debt.
Wenger also is not really willing to adapt or adjust STYLE of PLAY, in order to WIN.
He has to win HIS WAY, or we won’t do it.
Is it really unreasonable to spend 20M on proven talent when Arsene has spent 17M On Reyes, 12M on Walcott and 13M on Nasri, all unproven players.
15M on Arsh was not a bad investment, was it?
well, we might Nip, if we sold Cesc for 40 Million.
That we we’d make a profit overall, and we could bring in a couple of 15 million players.
But thats also taking 2 steps back, to take one step forward.
We are not likely to spend a lot more than we take in. It is not part of the overall long-term plan.
Arsesession, it’s good to have a variety of ideas and opinions, it makes us all think. No one has a monopoly on the truth. If I move into lecture mode… forgive me.
I do want to challenge you on a couple of points, not that it will necessarily change your thinking. ;-)
The first is on ManU. You infer that they are extravagant/imprudent financially. I’m not so sure I’d categorise them as such. ManU have been an enormously successful club for a long time, most certainly the last two decades. In that time they’ve established themselves as Englands leading club and one of Europes top 3 or 4. They have massive support, full houses with the biggest stadium in England, enviable corporate sponsorship deals and commercial clout. They also have a steady flow of trophies and long and lucrative cup runs. Luckily for them they have been able to increase the capacity of their stadium without the massive cost of rebuilding/relocating.
All that said, their revenue streams are first class and sustainable. On the expenditure side, they do spend bigger than we do, that is true. But, I’m guessing it is very much in accordance with their revenue generation. So they spend within their means to do so. My understanding is that their debt comes from their new ‘owners’ cynically refinancing their buyout. I feel for their supporters in this regard, they deserved much better. UEFA should legislate against what happened to ManU. One of the best clubs in the world was critically undermined.
The second point is on accuracy. You infer that Arsene’s critics want to spend 20m a pop on players. This is a lazy argument. Sure, there may be an instance where a special player is deserving of that, yet more often than not I believe posters are referring to ‘normal’ Arsenal buys like an Eduardo, a Sagna or a Vermaelen. These come in the 7-10m bracket and are the type of buy that most of the top 2/3’s of EPL clubs buy. Arsene himself peddles this lazy argument, when questioned about why he isn’t restocking (in spite of the need) he throws it off by referring to people always wanting big signings quoting 20m, 30m or more on individual purchases.
Ultimately all of us take in what we see and form a judgement. If you analyse what you see (and have seen over the last 5 years) and think Wenger is doing the job we require then fair enough – you have every right to your point of view.
Even Gazidis mentioned the 30 million player argument a few months ago. He likened it to a drug habit saying that if the club signed a player for 30m and he did not work out, then the club would be forced to sign another 30 m player, thereby entering a cycle of spending and debt. The interviewer didn’t bother to mention to Ivan that there are only a few players who are tagged at 30M and that most most Arsenal fans probably do not want such a pricey player. I would be fine with a 3 million (or 300,000 dollars) player who is competent.
Then there is the Arsene statement that he will only sign world class players. Hmm..Well I have lowered my standards. I don’t want any new players to be world class. I just new players to be competent and better than some of the existing bunch :)
Or maybe Arsene knows he has to sign world class players to compensate for some of the below average players he has ;)
not sure when it happened but winning became an ugly word at Arsenal prior to this season. If any fan dared utter winning a trophy, they were labeled as greedy. I can’t remember any other team ever saying that winning was a bad thing, but this winning is evil was quite an amazing PR spin. My stance on winning is that it is not only for the club and fans, but for the players as well. There are some players who like winning (or is it all?) which is why there was a time when the words “lack of ambition” were voiced by players. Interestingly, I have not heard those words mentioned in the last year at all. I do think players who voice such words are most likely going to be quality players who Arsenal need to hold onto. I can’t see players like Almunia complaining about lack of ambition and then threatening to leave. Why would he want to leave because he knows no other EPL team would take him on.
Kiwi –
ManU is the exception in the world of football. Large crowds at stadium for 20 years or more. Great income from licensing revenue, at a time when the transfer market ‘VALUES’ were realistic for their budget; they leveraged their reputation to pick up good players within the budget.
Now they owe banks over US$1 billion – even the sale of Ronaldo, could not make a dent in the black hole. Its the ‘keep up with the jones’ syndrome in life…..and now they cannot carry on (as in the past).
We are both on the same page about the sensible $7 – 12 mil signings but that has not been the logic on posts here. Anyone following this sight, the names brought up that we needed for the big ass striker – most were in the $20 mil + range: Dzeko, Benzama, Huntlaar, etc. A defenders list never was of discussion and once in a while GK names where thrown out like Given, Lloris, Akinfeev.
I do think Arsene could have found another CB in the $10 mil range, I’m just saying that I think the club was in a precarious financial position last season OR he tried to sign someone (quietly) and it didn’t pan out.
Now GK & CB are the most critical issue.
ManU didn’t borrow a billion their crappy owners did ;-)
The same could happen to us. We pay down all the debt. Then someone buys the club outright and then refinances by borrowing against the club and paying themselves out.
So pray tell, for the money they borrowed, where is it? What was it spent on ?
there is US$ 1 billion in debt – spent or invested towards something, but definitely not in a fixed asset like a stadium.
Someone buys Arsenal & refinances…..may we restrict the discussion to facts as of today.
On signings. I honestly think the majority of posters on this site advocate for sensible signings like you and me.
Of course good ones at good prices need to be found and the contracts sorted – yet that’s what we’ve done for years, decades even, that’s our business.
Given was a goodie, and a cheapie, indeed there are umpteen better keepers than ours. And several could have been recruited.
It’s all a little strange. That’s why I think a lot is more to do with the managers preference and a very human desire to be proven right.
Great comments Josh. I feel as though I am one of the few remaining Arsene supporters, but the last few weeks have shaken even my conviction. We had everything to play for still, but many of the players felt comfortable coasting. It’s disappointing. Where was the belief and commitment we hear about week in and week out? Clearly, some changes need to be made.
In Wenger’s defense, I will say that he has been more apt to call players out and discuss weaknesses of late. Hopefully, that means he recognizes the “problems,” and will follow through with action. I don’t care if he goes after big names, but I do want him to find players with heart, winners like Cesc and Vermaelen who have pride and take their own success and the success of the team personally.
In regard to being an Arsene Wenger supporter, it just depends on your expectations for the team.
If you want us to “win trophies”… at the cost of making profit and lowering the debt… then you’ll be sadly dissapointed.
Where exactly do you find “players with heart”?
and how do you know they have this said “heart” before we get them?
Unless they’ve done it before … which means they have a bit of growth on their chins = experienced players, you don’t know how a younger player will react to adversity… and Wenger and Arsenal predominantly buy YOUNG PLAYERS on the cheap.
When you scout a player, at any age, its easy to identify their work ethic – offensively & defensively. ex. Ramsey, Wilshere, Nasri, Song, Clichy, Sagna, Rosicky, Vermaelen, & sol. good balance of effort from this group.
Then there are some players that have exceptional talents but not the 90 minute work ethic. diaby, Arshavin, Denilson,Theo, Vela, Bendtner (some times), Cesc, Eboue (some times)
On great teams the manager finds a balance. For the teams we have had to field recently, we are missing that balance.
Teams like ManU – 1st priority is player pushing themselves for 90+ minutes at the sacrifice of high skill level.
I’d take a Ronaldo in my team… an Henry… who some folks my think lack this alleged “work ethic”.
There is room for the Ray Parlours in the team as well, but if you don’t have the skill level, you’ll get played off the pitch… or you can foul the better team, which happens to us, and which we had to do a bit of against Barcelona, when we couldn’t get the ball.
I don’t think it so easy to identify someone’s HEART, in the clutch, when it counts…
I don’t think work ethic and “heart” are exactly the same thing.
and you mentioned 9 ARSENAL PLAYES above… if they have “it”, that’s not enough? the whole team needs to be that type of player?
Arsene covets FINESSE PLAYERS!
so, you’ll be waiting for the muckers and grinders, as he isn’t exactly enamored with that style.
I haven’t posted much because, frankly, I haven’t had shit to say. Giving up three goals in the last ten minutes to Wigan; are you fucking kidding me? Losing to scum? Where’s the pride? I’m very disappointed with the team’s poor performances, lately. It’s tough to support a team claiming to have title aspirations but then they go out and lose three straight games.
Many of our players have no heart. This summer, Wenger needs to line all of their little asses up on the yellow brick road and send them to Oz to ask the wizard for some heart, courage, and a fucking brain. He needs to tell them if they don’t get it, don’t bring their little asses back. No one stepped up and accepted responsibility. On Sunday, we had an excellent opportunity to get back into the title race but only Sol and Tomas looked like they recognized what that second chance looked like; fucking disrespectful to that red and white shirt. Someone needs to let those punk-ass kids know.
I’ve said it before, that Wenger got too much credit for bringing in young players and turning them into superstars. He simply didn’t deserve all the credit. The older English guys nurtured and helped develop the likes of Henry, Vieira, and even Bergkamp. The main thing these young kids need are mentors who’ll show them the way and call them out when their effort lacks a winner’s balls. When Gallas tried to do it, we saw what happened to him. That’s Wenger’s fault. He’s created this monster and now he’s truly got to find a way to make it all right.
It’s also wrong for Wenger to expect Fabregas to do it all. He’s so young. Like I’ve said for years, it’s cool to be the hero from time to time but no one needs that burden every game. It’s nice to have team mates who can save the day for you sometimes. That’s the allure of a team like Barcelona that took Henry away and will take Fabregas away too. Wenger’s got to get it right and soon or this team will never win silverware again.
Sorry I cursed so much. Had to get that off my chest.
I agree completely.
Wenger got way too much credit for those signings that made it.
But lets face facts, Vieira, Henry, Cole, Ljunberg, etc would NEVER have made it if they hadnt spent time with those old guards.
Plus none of them was on long-term contracts based on “potential”. They were literally playing for their futures.
Not these kids.
PS: Am pretty sure if Diaby and Clichy were around in the late 90s, early 2000s they might actually have a chance of becoming world class players. Too bad they are in THIS team.
OK, well you are basically talking about the lack of experience / winners in the team… that was discussed (and shot down by some) before this season, and last season started. This has never been addressed, and now … you see the result.
When it comes to “crunch time”, there are scarce few that are able or willing to step up…
Wenger’s philosophy has been to let the kids learn on the job, get that experience, and thinking they’ll be better off for it.
Unfortunately, what has happened is, in recent big games in the last few years, we’ve got our ASS handed to us, and the result from the losses is not a “good experience”, but a lack of confidence.
Arsenal needed a better mix of experience and youth 2 years ago… and still do, but don’t hold your breath waiting for the methodoligy of Mr.Wenger to change… we’ve seen no evidence that he will adapt, but more likely, he’ll dig his heels in and continue along the same course.
Everyone is signed long-term… and he has stated he wants to keep the players together AGAIN for next year.
As long as we’re in the Top 4 and selling that stadium out every week, why would the board request a change, and why would they change the manager?
Well said Stag. It’s not what we want to hear, yet it’s the truth as far as I can make out.
He’s just so wed to this youth thing.
He restricts his non-youth buys to one a season and even then they can be young (Nasri).
That’s why I call it the long slow boat ride to China. This strategy will take forever to bear enough fruit to win – if it ever does.
I still don’t believe Arsene wanted Arshavin – signing him was like passing a motion when constipated – excrutiatingly painful.
Now it’s Chamakh, but only on a free! There’s a balance to be achieved between ‘good deals’ and giving the team a fair crack at a trophy. We don’t strike it.
Funny I felt the same thing about Arshavin. Somehow the feeling I got was that he was being reluctantly bought in.
Interesting on Arshavin… he’s a bit older than Wenger normally buys, and he SPEAKS out, that he thinks we need to buy/improve, if we are going to compete with the best…
He’s not interested in waiting 3 or 4 years for under-performing kids to pan out, or not.
If Wenger had PURCHASED Chamakh, instead of waiting to get him on a free transfer, might he have helped us win a game or two along the way?
I think its possible, and we might be in position to win the league THIS YEAR.
While getting Chamakh for FREE is a wonderful thing… and shrewd business, it might have been at the cost of winning the league THIS YEAR.
I am using Chamakh as an example, if a few of the issues we all saw at seasons’s START had been addressed, its a pretty good bet that we would have been better by a few points or more, thus putting us at the TOP of the league, or at least a few points closer, and we’d be playing for the league title with 3 to play.
That’s my thoughts on the season. Successful by Arsenal FC standards, but if if if… if only …
“Then again, some people just don’t want to have their cage rattled. Maybe you’re one. You like Wenger and can’t stand the thought of life without him. You also feel secure thinking he’s the best we can have. This thinking of course totally ignores the fact that his Arsenal tenure is now very much in 2 parts (just like at Monaco). Success and no success. It’s because of this that he’s now reinventing what it means to be successful (on his terms). Yet if you’re committed to Wengerism you’ll likely want to avoid any discussion around this.
For the record, Barcelona, Manchester United, Inter and Chelsea have all won trophies in the last 5 years – you didn’t mention that.”
1) I follow Arsenal because of the players that I enjoy watching as: RvP, Cesc, Arshavin, Rosicky, Nasri, Eduardo, Ramsey, and Song. I would still follow the team even if Mark Hughes was the manager – as long as those type of skillful and intelligent players were on the roster AND given the freedom on the pitch to improvise.
Although I prefaced my previous comments that I had not experienced professional life and top tier club involvement – I did not claim I was new to the sport. So maybe you can accept why I don’t see any point in discussion when as fans we are not privy to all the facts.
From reading many of your posts, you do grasp many aspects of this sport, but NONE of us are an authority and sometimes the tone of statements tend to be lecturing.
What I do know from real life experience in this sport is that:
No one can guarantee that new players will produce.
No one can insure that any player won’t have injuries.
You cannot warrant that new players will fit the team’s chemistry.
No one can underwrite that any new manager will have success.
I don’t agree with our manager all the time. I see his procrastination for GK, CB, and back up for Song, a major flaw in planning for this season. However, he runs the show and if his hands were tied financially by the board, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.
END OF STORY.
I favor the way Arsene does his homework on players, we have no miscreants, and a priority for protecting the financial health of Arsenal. I admire his vision for the academy and scouting. With the transfer market over inflated due to the reckless and unaccountable spending of yes those 5 teams I listed – no sane board would allow any manager to follow that path.
When the stadium debt is resolved, I can see the club more aggressive in the transfer market.
2) as far as those teams that have one trophy’s over the past 5 years…..these teams play by a different set of rules for how the operate their clubs. Debt by their method is not the Arsenal way.
I have trophy cabinets filled with silverware, yet I owe the bank $1 billion; are you kidding?
I do believe you & others are right that our manager is not tactically astute, and has a streak of stubbornness. So provide names of replacement coaches that have no flaws.
There is nothing wrong with speculation and opinion, but in perspective, none of us are accountable for the team’s effort and result.
I agree that we are playing with a different set of rules or PLAN than the teams winning trophies right now.
Winning, is not the ultimate goal at the moment for Arsenal.
However: you say:
No one can insure that any player won’t have injuries.
You cannot warrant that new players will fit the team’s chemistry.
No one can underwrite that any new manager will have success.
————–
You can NOT be afraid to make change. Yes, a new player could get injured or not perform up to expectations, so do you NOT bring in players to try to improve the team because that might fail?
Really?
Don’t TRY to get better or adapt, or change… because it might not work?
That is a loser’s mentality. There is risk and reward to everything in life.
Bringing in Arsene Wenger was a RISK. I’d say it worked out.
My point Stag was that the team needs an experienced GK, CB, and DM. Maybe last year, the stadium debt & other expenses, or Arsene couldn’t close a deal; as fans we are not in the loop for boardroom decisions.
Any player is a risk, part of the game. I just can’t see spending $20 mil for any player, which is the mantra many are pitching in sighting melo, Dzeko, Lloris, etc.
We can only hope that there is money for more signings this summer – comparable in talent as Vermaelen and Arshavin.
Its nice to have superstars, but not necessary for winning trophies.
As I posted a few weeks back…….the team depth lacks experience and this weakness has magnified since the 2nd Barca match.
Wenger RARELY will buy experienced players, they will have to be CHEAP or FREE (Sylvestre or Sol)…
The stadium debt is still large, and I agree, we are not likely to spend 20 Million on ANYONE.
Superstars are important in my opinion. Can’t remember a team winning the league recently without a star… a leader… a main man or even 2 or 3.
When we won, we had Vieira AND Henry.
It takes the focus off the good players and they can just perform.
The young players will be asked to continue to grow and improve. We aren’t filling the roster with buys. Wenger will continue with his methods, they’ve worked, we’ve remained top 4 and profitable, and those are the rules we play by, and the accomplishment we are attempting to acheive.
If we shift the philosophy, and the goal becomes WINNING ONLY, not trying to make a profit… we’ll have to change how we do business.
The only thing BOTH Barca matches showed, is that there is a gulf of talent between the teams.
You dont need to change being fiscally responsible and you do NOT need “superstars”.
You just need to find out where you are deficient and fill them with competent, skilled and experienced players without regard to “killing” any kids.
Vieira and Henry were only “superstars” because they won at Arsenal.
they grew into Superstar status at Arsenal. I don’t see anyone growing into that level of player other than Cesc, and he’ll need solid players surrounding him, to allow that to occur.
I doubt Wenger will change his philosophy of not wanting to bury the young players he is so much wanting to nurture (and overpay)…
but we can hope.
The Inter team that faced Barca last night had only one player aged less than 26 – Sneijder (and he turns 26 in June) !!!!
The Arsenal team that faced Barca in the second leg had only three players aged more than 26 – Syl, Sicky and Sagna.
This doesn’t necessarily mean that age is the answer. Barca’s average age of the squad that beat us was I think just one year higher than ours.
What we need is quality. Experience adds to that and age gives the manager et al a longer duration of a player’s career to judge their quality.
Isn’t it lovely to see Nasri toe the party line – we don’t get enough credit for youth and money, blah, blah …
First, it is Arsene, then the players, then the fans themselves. Very soon, we would have created our very own Arsenal world.
Where it is more important to pass than score.
Where it is more important to play beautiful football than win.
Where the future is great and the present is well … just think about the future, ok?
Myles Palmer from ANR gets a lot of stick from the faithful blogs, yet a lot of his turns of phrase are very clever and accurate.
One that sticks in my mind is describing Arsene as “selling us the future”. And he’s right, 100%, 5 years of nothing, but the faithful still cling on.
Don’t know about you Nip, but I don’t even think our football is as attractive stylistically as in past team iterations. I think we receive credit for past glories in this regard.
I don’t think our football is great either. And personally, I don’t care too much about style.
I have been playing football since I was 11 and have played at various levels (school, college, university, company). I still play every Sat + Sun. Every time I get off the pitch after a game, no one asks me if I played well or beautifully. I am simply asked if I won or lost. That is just the way of this world.
So for me, winning means a lot. Agreed, that you don’t want to cheat or dive or do things like that simply to win. Also agree that you can’t win all the time. But all this talk about winning only in the right way is a load of BS to me.
It is too simplistic to put teams in the good or bad football category – Arsenal and Barca are neat, Chelsea and Inter are not. What do you say about teams like ManU, Milan, Bayern, Lyon, etc? They are neither here now there? Does it matter? Each team has its own identity, nothing wrong with that, but the end goal is the same – to win.
Yi-ip.. yip yip yip yip. I very much agree, bollocks is the word.
Football has interest because of the different styles.
I don’t play football as much anymore but about a few years ago, I learned first hand how easy it was to stop teams who had players who spent most of their time passing the ball around without purpose. It was easy to learn which opponents would hold onto the ball long and then all I had to do was position myself appropriately and their play would be broken up. All this without kicking at the opponent. There were some players and teams who kept trying the same thing over and over but I did come across players who were smart enough to change things and then I ended up looking out of position.
So what frustrates me about Arsenal is that they keep doing the same thing over and over. Sure this season, there were some glimpses of difference but…
Barca’s opening 20 min (1st leg) against Arsenal were quite relentless — Jonathan Wilson talked about their pressing game and it was quite amazing to watch. was it beautiful? Yeah. Was it breathless? Absolutely. It was a different kind of beautiful.
Frank agrees with you Sachin….
“Sometimes you feel as if you are almost criticising the Pope when you make comments about the club.”
____________________
Frank McLintock, Arsenal double winning captain 1971
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2565/exclusives/2010/04/21/1887722/arsenal-and-arsene-wenger-need-to-tell-fans-the-truth-about
I do think at the AGM, some truths have to come out, like Frank says. The board have to own up. My frustration is that I refuse to believe that Wenger could not have found a better keeper for 1-2 million last summer. And I fear to think what would have happened if Sol was not available in Jan? If players couldn’t be bought, then can they not have been found on loan? This is a world cup year after all and I am sure there were players out there who would love to make an impression. And who knows, these players might have had a reason to prove themselves more than some of the current Arsenal players who are content to show up when they want to. Or maybe all these options were explored? But I won’t know unless someone says something — the board, Wenger or both. And no more lies please.
I am completely with Sachin. There is no point in expecting anything to change at Arsenal. The stages of delusion are well documented. There will be cries of 1/2 super class signings, then one player (like Nasri or Vermaelen) will be signed and that will be it.
On GDC, I said that if Mooney remains #1 for Arsenal next season, I will stop supporting this club. Although I said that in pure frustration, the sad reality is that it could actually come true. :(
Edit: To clarify, the part coming true is Mooney staying #1, not me stopping support for the club. ;)
Nip what’s GDC?
I’ve said before I think supporters, even long-termers, go in to a state of hibernation when they feel disengaged from their sporting obsession.
With each year that passes that becomes more relevant. Even this past season – the number of posts on this site has often been very poor. Ironically even the self proclaimed HO’s fade away.
Then there’s the opportunity cost. We lose the chance to win a generation to Arsenal. My nephew supports Chelsea, yet his Dad doesn’t. So, you see, the winners scoop up the new followers and Arsenal dips out. You’re dreaming if you think youngsters will follow because we have superior values. Dreaming.
Game Day Chat, our very own Arsenal virtual pub. Thanks to DAG !!
You should come there some time. We have great fun.
I completely agree on the disengagement part. I myself had decided to skip the Wigan game only to see it because of Chelsea’s loss the previous night.
The only saving grace of the Wigan disaster was the sharing of grief and fun moments with others on GDC.
Aha!
Do you need a specific GDC password or do you use your existing password?
Despite the protestations, a lot of folk are less interested.
I guess that’s why the winners have such large followings compared to the masses. It’s fun following those with a real shot at winning.
This season I’ve skipped some games when it was too hard. (accepting that in NZ it’s always hard in the wee small hours!) I just can’t be arsed – if it ain’t fun there’s lots else to do.
Same password.
Back in 2002 or 2003, Wenger said that Arsenal could dominate like Man Utd. That comment angered Fergie but he didn’t have to worry because Wenger made sure that wouldn’t happen. That to me was a huge opportunity lost because I did believe that Arsenal would have dominated Man Utd in terms of the league. The unexpected money arriving at Chelsea changed things but Arsenal didn’t have to step back so much.
I almost uttered a similar sentiment after the 2nd Wigan goal — I reacted by saying that I won’t watch another Arsenal game until they get a competent goalie. But I have been thinking I cannot stand by that as that might mean I would have to go another year without watching Arsenal. Because I don’t think the goalie situation will change until 2011….when Guardiola comes to Arsenal :)
I’d put money on us getting a new keeper. True, Wenger’s past trasfer policies don’t inspire confidence. But I think he tried to get one in Jan and the situation hasn’t gotten better since then.
really hope one arrives.
even if we do get a new keeper, do you think you will have ever heard of him?
or do you think he’ll be another experiment?
If Wenger is going to spend on a keeper, frankly… buy a PROVEN keeper.
If you are going with a 22 year old from Bulgaria… don’t bother wasting the money, stick with Manny or go with Mannone.
No & yes. But I want to be proved wrong on this keeper thing. I really do and I will be if a proven keeper comes in.
There are at least 5 keepers that Arsenal could bring in … not spending 20 Million… but paying for solidity.
If Buffon were to go to ManCity… Shay Given would probably become available… but would we go after him?
Why is it that City can BUY players from us, but we wouldn’t consider Bellamy for a year or two and Given?
I could be mistaken but I think a few seasons ago one of Given or Brad Friedel was available for less than 5 million (or it might have been free) but no move was made then. That seemed to have been quite costly now.
The last question does drive me crazy as I often wonder about that, meaning getting some experienced players for a season or so. Heck, I wish that Arsenal get some players for loan – that way the player can be evaluated and he could add some experience to the squad. Take the example of Henrik Larsson. Utd were able to use him for a 2.5 month loan but if he were offered to Arsenal, would Wenger have gone for such a move?
That kid Pedro (who scored 17 goals in a sub-par La Liga) scored in 2 of the three games against Inter.
Theo also scored against Barca but unfortunately he has managed only 3 goals in a sub-par EPL this season. :(
Inter pretty much confirmed what I always thought…Barca are very good, but there is a way to stop them. Deny them space and hit them on the counter. Some on here were saying, oh no, they would still dominate. Err no they wont. They are not super humans.
Then again, am not too pissed off we lost out. Arsenal v. Inter would have been a bloodbath! They wont overrun us or outplay us, they’ll just score 4 or 5 by hitting us were it hurts.
Inter dont just have skillful players, they also have that “Chelsea type” worldliness and to cap it all they are sneaky, sneaky bastards with their off-the ball fouling and diving. Such a team would destroy our Colney nursery.
——————————-
PS: Ibrahimovic again confirms his reputation as a BIG GAME bottler.
The guy belongs at Arsenal really. I have never seen a striker more overhyped. The guy was so nonsensical they replaced him with Pique!
PSS: No one even thinks of Henry anymore when it comes to looking for goals or whatever. He is a forgotten man. Sad.
Don’t be too harsh he scored 2 against us. ;-)
I am sure Barca must be thinking that it is no disgrace losing to Inter.
Same way as ManU were thinking about Bayern and Chelsea about Inter. ;)
Did Henry’s fade away start after the hand ball for France? I can’t remember. He might be even more of a forgotten person if he is not picked for the world cup.
Adebayor is clearly going to get booed. But what if no one booed him and just plain ignored whatever he did? Would his feelings be hurt because it would show that Arsenal fans don’t care? I would find it funny if the stadium fell completely silent every time he touched the ball. For good measure, the stadium should echo with cricket chirping everytime he is near the ball. That might actually put him off because he is probably hoping to energize with the directed hate.
Just hope that RVP, provided he starts, keeps calm & does not get a red card for any rash tackle.
After I had read Alex Fynn & Kevin Whitcher’s book (you know the one about Arsenal being a…gasp..super club..), my frustration was pointed directed towards the board. As per the book, they (or was it just PHW?) set the target for Wenger to finish 4th. The standards were lowered then and those lowered targets aligned with the long term plan of the Wenger experiment. Now, I think some have mentioned (was it you Kiwi?) that maybe the long term plan might have been inevitable under Wenger regardless of the board’s words, but I still like to think the lowered target allowed the perfect pressure free environment for any youth projects. If one measures Arsenal’s performances against those board plans, then Wenger has delivered — Arsenal have not finished below 4th since the targets were set.
What irritates me is when some board member comes out and says that Wenger had money to spend, trying to distance themselves. Well isn’t Wenger answerable to the board? I just think the board is secretly happy with the way things but they make such statements to distance themselves from any criticism. As Stag mentioned above, they won’t change until their original target of 4th or profits is not met.
Once upon a time, I used to think of players that Arsenal could sign. I have stopped doing that. I wouldn’t even be surprized if Almunia is still Arsenal’s #1 goalie next season. If that were to happen, it would be very hard me to watch any Arsenal game calmly…A few years ago, when Almunia was offered a long term contract, I had mentioned on AA that like Pires and Bergkamp, Almunia should have been offered a year to year contract like the over 30 outfield players. I was corrected by someone that I should not judge goal keepers like outfield players and goalies get better after 30. This person (can’t remember who) clearly had faith in Almunia while I didn’t. I don’t know if there is anything that can make Almunia a better keeper now but I had figured if his contract was on a yearly basis, then atleast he would go out and try to prove his worth. Right now, his position is secure — he has no incentive to improve. On top of that, his back-up is even a bigger flop. Or maybe Almunia and Fabiański form the Arsenal version of the Curious Case of Benjamin Button — Fabiański is a younger Almunia and Almunia is giving us a glimpse of an older Fabiański. Either way, the present and future does not bode well in Arsenal’s net. But then again, this can be spun around to say that it is a miracle that Arsenal have achieved so many points this season (and the last few) without having a real EPL worthy goal-keeper.
Oh and I think Alex Fynn & Kevin Whitcher should work on a sequel to their book: Arsenal — the unmaking of a super club in 3 seasons.
or should the word ‘potential’ be added before super club?
Well said Sachin, musing appreciated. :-)
Super clubs are super because they’re serial winners.
If your big and don’t win you’re big but not super.
Arsenal now tick all the boxes for entry to the top level except…. winning. That’s the irony, we’ve built the training ground, the stadium, have the history and support and yet we’ve lost our ticket.
Look at Liverpool, they look precariously balanced to me, in danger of becoming another ‘big club’.
Arsenal’s board have long been conservative and it served them well when once fused together with a bit of ambition (Dein). Now I sense we have little clear ambition. Wenger has gazumped the board and is using the club as a plaything for his perculiar views on footballing purity.
I find it increasingly boring. Our football quality has descended to levels never seen under Wenger. We aspire to 4th. It’s all a tad sad.
Arsenal’s aspirations from 2005-onward is being shaped exclusively by Arsene. The board is now largely irrelevant. Dein applied energy at board level and contributed to the clubs vision. That’s gone. Now the board is fractious and distracted. There is no leading presence at board level to shape direction. It’s ALL ARSENE. Gazidis will focus on the corporate side – not the playing side where it really happens (his title is misleading – he is really GM Corporate).
So…. Sachin is 100% correct. As long as Wenger achieves 4th he can breathe easy. The board won’t pressure him, indeed they’ll be relieved. And Wenger himself won’t deviate from his experiment. We’ve already seen that the more he’s proded by media and fans the more entrenched he becomes.
Before Gazidis was hired, I kept thinking that the best move Arsenal could have made would have been to get Dein back.
Thanks Kiwi.
Arsesession, mate don’t be so hard on yourself. Just because you aren’t part of the footballing establishment doesn’t preclude you from expressing an intelligent opinion.
Believe or not, football is not the only environment that manages large budgets, has boards of governance, sets goals, plays in a competitive industry on an unequal footing, etc. Most of us operate in some capacity in such environments and are well positioned to express an opinion, some being very well placed.
Has anyone ever on this site said we shouldn’t operate with fiscal sense? No. So why do you raise that as an argument?
Then again, some people just don’t want to have their cage rattled. Maybe you’re one. You like Wenger and can’t stand the thought of life without him. You also feel secure thinking he’s the best we can have. This thinking of course totally ignores the fact that his Arsenal tenure is now very much in 2 parts (just like at Monaco). Success and no success. It’s because of this that he’s now reinventing what it means to be successful (on his terms). Yet if you’re committed to Wengerism you’ll likely want to avoid any discussion around this.
For the record, Barcelona, Manchester United, Inter and Chelsea have all won trophies in the last 5 years – you didn’t mention that.
Alas your punch line is 100% right – as fans in this period of time we’re well set up for endless disappointment. ;-)
So it was no disgrace losing to the greatest team in the world.
Did anyone see last night’s CL game?
I told you that Inter can deal with Barca. Whatever you say of Mour, he is a succesful coach/manager. We may detest him (just like Fergie), but those two know how to win.
I fully predicted that Inter would knock them out… no one believed me.
I have never managed at the professional level. Never played professionally.
Never been part of any football boardroom.
I am not privy to the clubs finances and aware of our manager’s attempts to negotiate for new players, nor attend training sessions and coaching staff meetings.
So when I express my opinion on this sight, I temper my remarks based on these LIMITATIONS.
For me to second guess roster selections, manager’s decisions, and club’s financial decisions would be grounded only on my own speculation.
When we lose, some of you can’t find enough time critical for players and manager.
Look at Real, Barca, Inter, ManU, City, Pool, and Chelsea – they all have players on high salaries that are not producing. All have their players out injured over extended seasons. All of these teams are in huge debt, off set by their sugar daddy, owners who borrowed on assets, or their government bails them out.
Debt this way is not the Arsenal way. If you don’t agree, then you are setting yourself up for endless disappointment. We are not likely to go out and buy 3 or 4 $20 mil pound players in the transfer market…….ever.
As most of us agree, we want to see a change at GK, add a new experienced CB, a versatile defender who can back up Song, and an additional striker to give us a back up attacking option, it is our wish list.
much of what you said is true, right now, we don’t operate that way, and its HIGHLY UNLIKELY we would bring in 3 or 4 new players at ANY prices, because they’d add up to 20 or 30 Million.
We do NOT spend that amount.
You can wish we did, but its crazy to think we will. We will operate the same way, hopefully with a slight increase in addressing perceived needs.
Samir’s wisdom (or is he a puppet and Arsene has his hand up his shirt?) ….
“I think we have more merit as a club than those who have built their teams with millions of pounds whereas Arsenal have brought in young footballers, who have come here to play a certain kind of football and who have developed.”
Kiwi: Really? I think over-paying young players is a vile practice that won’t work because it contravenes every bit of wisdom the human race has amassed. Not to mention the small matter it has netted us a princely return of ummm ahhh, zero after 5 years. And the kind of football I like is the type that ends in goals and wins and trophies and includes; hard-nosed defending, 1st-class goalkeeping, tackling, crosses, headers, and demonstrable passion and commitment.
Samir, “I am hoping that our squad will stay unchanged because we are really good and with a year more experience, we can achieve some great things next season.”
Kiwi: We’ve been sold the ‘next season’ line for a while. It’s been tried and tested and found wanting. Indeed, Arsene has stopped asking us to judge this team, ever. Instead he’s moved the goal posts and calls CL qualification the level of our aspiration.
Our next match is against a team paying way over the odds and (IMO) given our injuries etc. and the “proven” talent they will put on the pitch they should beat the crap out of us. Frankly, I hope they don’t, and I’m glad that I (happen to) support the “underdog” in the upcoming showdown….
Kiwi: Really? I think over-paying young players is a vile practice that won’t work because it contravenes every bit of wisdom the human race has amassed.
In my opinion it is far more vile that someone who happens to be born into wealth can do nothing but consume the fruits of the culture and live in (obscene) comfort while other labor all day long and live in squalid conditions….
Things like contracts in risky, short-lived professions protect workers…and give some shelter from the most egregious excesses of Capitalism. (Should Aaron Ramsey, for example, be paid nothing while he’s not actually “producing” for us?)
We may, however, have a differing view of how the world works, politics, etc….
“We may, however, have a differing view of how the world works, politics, etc….”
_______________
I doubt it Steve, you strike me as being decent and I know I am ;-)
Market forces is as good a method of income determination as we have found. However, like any system it can go out of whack, and badly so. Football is a picture of how it can lead to absurd outcomes. In a general sense football is a good example of a ridiculous outcome. Playing football should not net you multi-millions p.a., yet it does. However Arsene has seemingly added to what is already an insane situation. He now pays a guy like Theo who has done nothing for Arsenal 60,000 pounds p.w. If a guy like Frank Lampard or even Ashley Cole is paid extravagantly you can at least say, he has performed and his remuneration (as ridiculous as it seems) is given on the basis of proven ability and past performance. Not so with Arsenal, we pay prematurely, for no apparent or stated reason. I see no values in this.
“In my opinion it is far more vile that someone who happens to be born into wealth can do nothing but consume the fruits of the culture and live in (obscene) comfort while other labor all day long and live in squalid conditions….”
_________________
I’m sure I would agree with you on this Steve, but how does it apply to this particular discussion?
I guess I’m comparing semi-wealthy footballers (all of them) trying to get their “due” and taking some real risks (to bones as well as egos), leaving their families early, etc. vs. people with many times their wealth who risk nothing/make no sacrifices, etc….(i.e. “vile” seems a strong enough word in the latter usage…)
Thanks also for taking a “measured approach” in this discussion….and agreeing that we need more info.
Bottom line, until Arsenal get hurt financially (people walking, growth slowing, etc.) or there’s a shake-up at board and management level, this “contrarian” approach will continue.
Or, maybe with some success, it will be the model for other ambitious clubs…(that’s the “time will tell” part…)
Vile may be a poor choice of word to describe my feelings, too emotive perhaps. I just can’t see the ‘values’ Wenger loves claiming being practised in this regard.
Theo get’s say 3.1 million pounds p.a. (60,000pw), for what? Based on what? Wasn’t that more than he would pay Ashley Cole a proven international LB in his prime, perhaps the best in the world?
If Theo starts to manifest rare talent on the field then one could understand his remuneration moving upward. But now? Why? The only explanations I hear are very glib loose throw away lines.
For us to have a total wage bill close to Chelsea and ManU we must be paying very large amounts to the younger brigade. There is no other way to explain the parity between the leading clubs.
On the risk aspect of being a pro footballer. It’s not that great is it? And at Arsenal they’re treated lke princes. And without meaning to be cruel at all, how many teenagers suffer serious injuries playing sport for pleasure?
That’s what I said, say…
until Arsenal’s plan goes astray, they will continue with it endlessly…
There is a waiting list of 40,000 fans for season tickets?!
and we sell out EVERY match, no matter if we play a B-squad in the FA Cup or CC.
The board aren’t changing ANYTHING unless we fail to make the Top 4, or people stop buying and showing up in droves.
yip 100%
While I agree with you that we are the underdogs in our next game, the bookmakers for some reason disagree. You can still get better odds on Man City than on Arsenal. More interestingly though, Arsenal and City have the same listed odds on winning the 2011 Premiership.
ManC have made a better fist of this season than some would have thought. It’s not easy to make significant improvement even with money to spend.
They have improved. I also think Spurs under Rednapp will be a harder nut than previously. So both Spurs and ManC are well placed to make life harder for those aspiring for the top-4 positions next season. Next season might be the toughest yet for our low-aspirational club.
Agreed. I cannot imagine a scenario where we get chance after chance after chance…Next season we’ll actually have to take points from those 4 teams (not just Liverpool….)
Home field advantage has been SO BIG this season in the EPL, that Arsenal would HAVE to be a favorite against ManCity, or at least even-money.
There are not many “road-warriors” in the EPL this season.
Adebayor is going to love it, just love it. This boys gotta hate brewing against his ole club and he’ll be out to shove the taunts down the critics mouths.
Stand clear….
I agree, he’ll likely be licking his chops at the chance to STICK IT to Arsenal and our supporters…
But so what… he might score, but who really cares?
He should be happy to make millions at his club, who have a chance at making the CL…
Unfortunately, Tevez is better than him! and in the short-term, I’d take Bellamy over his as well… if they buy more strikers this Summer, he might find time on the pitch short!
As Arthur says Ade’s the Dade. He’s got the x-factor, he’s a big personality, he’s a striker, he scores goals.
We stuck him at the apex of a crap midfield blighted by injury (sound familiar ;-) ) and then rounded on him like a pack of vultures.
Sure he was dumb, but we weren’t exactly clever.
a striker who scores goals?!
what would a team want with that?!
;)
he missed more than he converted!
I wasn’t a big Adebayor fan, and what a shrewd bit of business, and a really good profit we made on that sale.
25 million, NICE.
Put it on the board.
….last one out turn off the lights.
I’m still here….
Timmy the Tooth, 7amkickoff.com, wrote about this today, linking to 2 year old data, though his point was almost the exact opposite of yours….
I think it’s too easy to be simplistic about this issue and we need more information. We (or at least I) don’t know anything about the contracts except that they are “long-term.”
The general strategy seems a desire to maintain continuity and a reaction to losing Hleb and Flamini two summers ago. By going “younger” and giving those boys the longer contracts we’re clearly hoping to avoid the Bosman issue and keep our veterans. (Interesting, however, that we’re playing the opposite side in our dealings with Chamakh, who, depending on your view, is a proven player or maybe not…)
So, are those contracts at all performance related (incentive based)? How long are they, are there “options,” that allow the club or players to extend or opt out if things go one way or the other? Or are they just straight up (stupid) big money contracts for everyone if they can get through the youth academy? Hell, is there even a place where we can see a list of how many pounds/week? (Figures that nicely rile the typical working class supporter….)
As for the culture we’re building….The culture AT LARGE is screwed up in rewarding people in incredible ways while others have nothing (immoral, IMO). For the typical high level footballer the numbers are just ways of quanitfying the level of one’s arrival. They’re all too high.
But, if it’s salaries that are too high (rather than transfers) at least the numbers reward the player directly (not just as an ego boost) rather than the selling club. (Some call this concept of one group of people or an organization “owning” people “Slavery,” but maybe that’s another argument…..And if Arsenal players are over-rewarded relative to other teams, the Club might be a more attractive landing spot for the best players and as such the (in-team) competition grows, etc. and it might not be all bad.
More information and time will tell, etc., etc. (sorry for the long post….)
Glad you’re still here Steve. :-)
It’s hard to take bloggers like Timmy the Tooth too seriously. Their positions are so entrenched and align so very closely to Wenger-knows-best. So any pointed criticism of the club on their sites is met with an OTT rebuttal. You must wonder why their position is so entrenched. Why be so wed to a manager? Ultimately Wenger is rewarded enormously, outlandishly even, for his job. So why this sentimental dependence?
I find this aspect of supporters highly bizarre – it’s borders the ridiculous when it is the supporter being lampooned for a lack of support whilst the people responsible for the performances (players and manager) are mollycoddled and fervently shielded from criticism. It’s bizarre. Mourinho’s pointed criticism of Wenger is being proven insightful.
Back on topic, ;-)
I agree with you that there is a danger on being simplistic in any of these discussions. I do try not to.
We don’t know the detail of contracts and I agree with you if there is a significant performance related component then it moves the discussion somewhat. However, that said, what (all?) we can do is step back and take a macro view. And when I do I just can’t see the logic. How does Arsenal’s squad who have won nothing for the club how can they come close to Chelsea’s and ManU’s star-studded squads that have? It doesn’t pass the sniff-test does it? We seem to be paying too much for too little. Factor in the horrid return we get from presumably higher-paid guys like RvP, Rosicky and Eduardo and you wonder what sense of value or values we are getting and promoting.
Anyway, we can only say our piece and then let it go. Wenger plays with the truth – and the Timmy the Tooths of this blog-a-sphere lap it up. 5 years is an eternity in football and plenty of time to see fruit. The fruit we see is still deformed. I’d welcome Mourinho as manager, he’d be fun, and following football is a fun-thing. ;-)
Mourinho at Arsenal?
Can’t see it happening.
His teams are rooted in DEFENSE. Defensive tactics…
that’s opposite to what Arsene and Arsenal are about.
But I agree, he’d be fun to have as a manager, and he knows what he is doing.
Footballs a fun thing, watching the debt reduce doesn’t really cut it. ;-)
Arsene’s had his go, it hasn’t worked on-field. The clubs been patient, repaid him with 5 years for his early brilliance and later prudence. Let it go. Move on. Celebrate again, give The Emirates some good times.
Mourinho is like George Graham with a bit of pizzazz. Give him a go. He’ll clean up and rev up the squad, bring a bit of passion, sell off the deadwood.
Oh, rooting for the debt to be cut is easy!
and so is for the club making profit!
give it a try.
create a Profit Table!
and… root for us to sell off players at a tidy profit in the Summer!
Mourinho would clear out a lot of dead wood, but he’d also want to SPEND to bring in players. That will NOT work here at the AFC. Not in the budget. He would thrive at Man City… in my humble opinion.
Perhaps that’s not giving the Special One enough credit, I think he’s capable of winning with minimal resources (Porto). I also think we’re painting a false picture of Arsenal – we aren’t skint. It’s as much about AW’s MO as it is about fiscal constraint.
I reckon Arsenal could hire any number of professional managers (Mourinho included) who could quickly turn this team into winners. We forget that we’re only competing currently for 2 trophies – CL and EPL.
hang on. Don’t leave just yet. I might be able to muster a few more musings :)
Great :-)
Does anyone else find a certain logical disconnect between our wage bill and our values? I mean, on the one hand whenever we flump we are told ‘but look at the average age’ as though after 5 years that is still a sound explanation. Then on the other hand we pay a very comparable amount in remuneration to manager/players as the evil Chelsea and ManU and far more than everyone else.
The wages equation doesn’t stack up.
AFC young crockly squad with no past success = CFC/MUFC experienced winning squads
It seems to me we’re paying a lot of players prematurely.
yes. when you regularly sell off your better players… highest paid players for big profits, then that explains some of it.
We don’t pay for players in transfers, so we have to pay them bigger salaries, in the hope they stay around… become very good, and we can sell them for a tidy profit.
Paying more in salary, less in transfer fees, is part of “THE PLAN”.
yeah we did discuss this a few days ago or was it weeks? I think if Arsene had spent the money to bring in a few experienced players, then their on field display might have paid off dividends and offset some of the negative on-field and off-field expense (wage bill) certain players are incurring Arsenal.
But hey, I don’t have a degree in economics. Would be nice if Arsenal had a manager who had an economic degree..oh wait a minute is that a master’s degree in economics from Strasbourg University that I see hanging on the wall? :)
From my experience economists have little fiscal sense. ;-)
or maybe they start believing in their ‘perfect’ model and expect the future to be completely bright and are then shocked when a crisis happens. Trying hard to resist temptation to blurt something about..housing…
mortgage, crisis…
economy..
:)
Nice parallel. Wenger’s latest approach fits the economist profile – his youth experiment is very much like an economists model that looks good on paper and yet never quite works in practise. :-(
Am I the only one that COMPLETELY forgot about the CL today? Once Arsenal went out I guess it sort of dropped off my radar. Also probably 90% of my football news is derived from English football sites, and the lack of a Prem team probably detracted attention as well.
Sounds like it was a good game, 3-1 to Inter at San Siro. Despite the 2 goal advantage for Inter, I’d still say the tie is 50/50.
Whilst I love a lot about this modern Barcelona team this result is fantastic.
At the end of the day football is nothing more than entertainment. Barcelona is entertainment and Mourinho’s steely cocky competitiveness brings entertainment.
Beautifully balanced tie. Mourinho is a great tactician and if anyone can defend this lead his team can.
I agree.
Inter whomped’em on the scoreboard 3-1. That’s all that counts.
Mourinho is an excellent manager. Not even debatable.
I think they can shut down Barca for one game. I think they’ll hold them off and Inter-Bayern would be a good CL Final.
Well done to Jose’ and company…
How easy you change your tune. Two weeks ago, you were telling us how Barca would batter them :-)
I don’t support Barcelona, so if they lose… good.
I like Mourinho, he brings interest to the game…
It’s really simple, it’s about trophies, victory, glory, celebration. You get 4 bites each season. If Arsene is not on the same page we should let him go, and the sooner the better for the club.
Three or four key signings, a shake-up in the dressing room, and we’re away again.
Kiwi.
Seriously?
It SHOULD be about trophies, victory, etc.
But you KNOW it is NOT about those things at the Arsenal Football Club.
It hasn’t been for 3 or 4 years at least.
It is about making the CL, playing a pretty style of football to entertain (or brainwash, or mesmerize) the fans, filling that stadium EVERY match, making profits EVERY year, and lowering the stadium debt EVERY year.
Wenger and Arsenal FC… have accomplished that every season, and this season.
That makes it a successful and good season.
That is THE PLAN. It has worked to perfection.
At some point, I hope we revert to legitimately “going for it” in terms of winning the league and trophies regularly, but you can’t be under any real illusion that Arsenal Football Club are attempting to do just that.
IF we contend, GREAT. If we WIN, OUTSTANDING. But make the top 4, and sell out that stadium… SELL off the assets and make a profit from them, and then RELOAD with younger & cheaper… REPEAT.
Wenger has done it well, and you have to be impressed by it… he’s spent little and acheived the same level of success repeatedly.
Debt Lowered.
(that’s a big plus)
Profits Made.
(that’s a big plus)
Good football played and challenged for title, which allows for the stadium to remain FULL for every single match.
Long may it last.
Everybody in the world could see we needed an additional DM and CB both in the summer and in winter. Only Wenger and the AKB crowd couldnt.
As for the discussion about formations. There doesnt need to be a debate about going for either 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. Any coach with brains SWITCHES between the two from game to game – for tactical reasons or to throw off the opposition.
Wenger is the most inflexible manager I know. Upto 2006, he would rather die than not play 4-4-2 even though it was obvious we might need some tactical variation … now, unless we are losing 2-0 with ten minutes to go, he wont switch to a 4-4-2.
Lets face facts, even if the we have a solid and balanced team, I dont believe Wenger would win … he just isnt tactically astute enough. Thats why despite having a gifted, fast, strong and intelligent team between 2002 and 2005, he still managed to consistently crap his pants in the 2nd round of the CLs.
I have not played football myself and I’m just a noob-tard when it comes to watching the game, but I seriously do not believe that Wenger talks formations with his team…There is a back 4 (always) and a DM (Gilberto then Song or Denilson or on Sunday, Eastmond) and then there are attackers who are expected to cover for one another and sort of work the areas where they line up at kick-off. And maybe track back defensively? Once in a while, if they can be bothered?
(What does AW talk to his team about?…I would guess that he believes that his players know that they need to play differently depending on the scoreline, but I have a feeling they don’t discuss it because our boys CANNOT protect a lead, even against woeful, crap opposition.)
And speaking of Managerial tactics…At Wigan, I could not believe that he waited until 80th minute to make his first sub AND then persisted with removing Rosicky (the only player among the attackers actually tracking back and winning balls) when we gave up the first goal. Eboue, if he’s playing ahead of Sagna (i.e., as an attacker, which is absurd in and of itself….) simply does not track back with any urgency and Merida…well, I’ve been told he’s an AM and what can you expect from his first 10 minutes in 3 months.
Waiting to make subs=car is starting to wobble, giving up the 1st and persisting with the subs…the car is sliding out of control.
Fabianski drops the corner onto Bramble’s head…OK we’re flipping here (Eastmond, our DM out, RVP in) and lo and behold, N’zogbia dances across the top of the box (where the DM should be, but we don’t have one) and gets off his sweet strike. Call an ambulance this is a fatality….
Well played, Roberto Martinez….Our Manager…not so much….
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=773826&sec=uefachampionsleague&root=uefachampionsleague&cc=4716
Don’t do it to yourself, let it go. ;-)
Regarding Diaby:
So he had a forgettable performance v. Wigan. It happens to every player.
One thing I have noticed is that Diabys’ better performances are linked with his chemistry with Song. (imo) When Song is out of the line up, Diaby is less productive offensively and defensively. When Song is present and controlling possession infront of the back 4, Diaby tends to move more in advance, finding space in the midfield gaps, and usually Song’s first choice in pass.
Actually, our entire attack is more inventive with Song in the line up. The last 10+ matches Song has either been suspended, forced to play CB, or injured and the team’s effectiveness has dropped a notch.
Maybe this is my own illusion.
No illusion…
It seems minor now, but last summer some of the wiser voices here warned of trouble if we didn’t find adequate back-up for Song when he went away to the ACN.
It’s ironic (or troubling?) that a player like Song, who really is quite slow and merely physically and technically solid (rather than truly outstanding) but has shown an ability to play DECISIVELY can garner such a crucial role in our team.
I think Song is a good player, solid, and has an impact on our team because there is nobody else in his mold.
He really isn’t a “special player”, but he’s one we need in the line-up.
He definitely improved this season, and could get better next year. He’s worth keeping.
Diaby had his most clueless game of the season against Barca at home, with Alex Song Billong in tow.
I agree Maz, I am not buying Diaby being “incredible” or any variation there-of…
He has moments where’s he’s played well, and just as many games where he is just average.
In big games, he hasn’t done well. Headed into his own net early in the season to hand us a loss against United, piss poor as you stated against Barcelona.
I don’t think he is the “answer”, but Wenger is likely to keep Diaby a regular in the line-up… he’s not a bad squad player to have, but he’s not winning us any trophies.
Luckily for him, thats not the big goal of the AFC.
Song had to switch positions half an hour into the match…Against the most potent attacking team in all of football, perhaps even tougher than the one he faces in practice!!! ;-)
Instead, blame Wenger (it shouldn’t be too hard for you to do….) for not subbing Sol in and letting Song continue at DM. (Though, at the time, the result seemed to vindicate the manager…)
Song is faster than you think. Just like creaky ol’ Sol is faster than you think he is. Song is just one of those players that runs with a style that makes it look like he isn’t trying.
And I don’t think it matters who you pair Diaby with. He just plays with his head up his ass so often. He could be a great player but he doesn’t have the desire or awareness.
Gunnerblog, Arseblog, even 7amkickoff (Timmy the tooth) and many of the other “positive” bloggers are all calling what they saw on Sunday as they saw it…and it was ugly. I still think it was like a horrible crash where you’re just driving along and suddenly it’s happening and time slows down and the carnage just unfolds….slowly, excruciatingly….etc.
For me, even though I am a so called “hippie optimist,” I was not wearing any flowers in my hair (not enough hair left, goddammit….) going over to watch the match in San Francisco…In fact, going back to the 60s, there was a real difference between the “Berkeley Hippies” (we fancy ourselves more “intellectual”) and the youthful masses that poured into the Haight-Ashbury district during the “Summer of Love.” On Sunday, like I said above, it was me, a more straight-laced guy from the suburbs and two Londoners (one being the bartender). The regular SF Gooners, including Mark from AA, stayed away….
But I digress…
What I really wanted to say was that I think the dichotomy here and among other Arsenal supporters between the “realists” and the AKBs (or HOs) etc. is (mostly) a false one.
What we have (again, just my opinion) is a very stable, predictable (conservative?) club, mostly doing the right thing amidst a very unstable (yet, unfortunately, still very predictable) backdrop. It is easy to succumb to hyperbole and react (over-react?) with each result, but I think most everyone, deep down, is fairly content with the financial approach and the long-term prospects of our team. Sure, it’s not as “exciting” (nor brutal) as being say a Pompey or Liverpool supporter. (Thank god). And most of us, I would think, are pleased to find ourselves supporting Arsenal (it’s not a “choice,” for most of us, at least) rather than waking up as a United or Chelsea or City or Spurs fan. Of course, I really don’t want to speak for others here, it’s just what I think….
The thing is, even though I go into every match hopeful, I can see that other teams have more (mature) talent on the pitch, esp. given our injuries. Like Arseblogger, as much as the two teams ahead stumbled (and my how they stumbled, except, of course, when we played them), I never thought we could actually win the league, and when I saw Barca and Inter in our half of the CL draw, that was out as well. Still, it would’ve been beautiful if somehow things could’ve worked out….and I was most certainly hoping that some of the “qualities” we’re cultivating (“belief,” technical prowess, a “team” ethic, etc.) might get us a few results against the odds and help move us forward.
Unfortunately, we’re back to our correct level (fighting for a CL spot) and we need to show a little heart or we’ll actually drop below it. These last few matches should have been a bit of a “victory lap” showing our (modest) improvement. Instead, things are a bit more desperate than that….
http://gunnerblog.com/?p=2304
Thanks for sharing this well written and thought out article.
“The clash with City on Saturday will be monumental for the club.”
_____________________________
I doubt it. Barcelona, Spurs and Wigan were significant. With ManC we’re into the end of season warm-downs. The proportion of fans who give a rats is diminishing by the day. Arsene and Silvestre (note he gets the job of talky uppy after being one of the last games woeful performers) are quoted today as saying how they must respond in the next game bla bla. For get it, let it go. No one is listening, least of all the players. They know the routine, talk about great learning experience, talk about progress and respecting the fans… and then go and look half-arsed out on the pitch. Then repeat.
There’s little direct accountability in this industry, and even less at Arsenal, they draw 60,000-80,000 pounds from their bank account whether they deliver or not. We have created an extreme environment of pampered young men who have no opportunity to learn what striving means. In days not so long ago, the players worked their butts off to prove themselves worthy of a professional contract and then worked to prove themselves worthy of joining a big club. But the genius Arsene has reinvented the whole thing – at Arsenal the players are purchased at 15-16, pampered, shielded from criticism, so hardly surprising they feel bullet proof. So what you get is what you see.
I thought the loss to Sunderland and draw at West Ham, also pretty significant. But I’m not sure the loss to Barca would be classified similarly. There is no disgrace to lose to a better or comparable team, when you give effort.
There is reason for frustration when the effort is lacking.
So on one hand the team can take criticism for lacking effort in the last 10 minutes of a match, but its okay for the fans to give up caring in the last 10% of the season?
Our league play is 38 matches and every match needs to be played with the same level of energy, focus, and determination – regardless of the starting 11.
A loss on Saturday, will only fuel the ambitions for Blackburn and Fulham. I am not one to throw in the towel. Something positive can be taken from any match and Arsenal need to regain belief in our final matches.
I’m sure there are some segment of our fan base that would relish Arsenal to lose our last matches and end up out of the top 4; provoking the dismissal of our manager and his replacement come in and clean house.
The point of my earlier comment is that with the one addition of Vermaelen and the improved play of Song – our team this season has exceeded EVERY FAN’S expectation. The flaws of the past two seasons are a short list.
There is reason for optimism for the direction Arsenal are heading.
Okay, so we aren’t going to win any silverware, but instead of dwelling on the shortcomings we need to learn from the experience and most importantly observe how Arsene evaluates each player and their contribution and his summer decisions that take the club to the next level.
No, (IMO) it’s not OK for the supporters to drift away over the final matches…but that’s their prerogative….and some might say that (eventually) they will vote with their feet.
You’re right, TV5 and Vermalaen are big positives (but both, maybe, are among the “out for the season” list). Even the game changing dynamics of (too often injured) Cesc and RVP can be seen as major steps forward, if they start next season healthy and in Arsenal kits.
Nonetheless, we still have A LOT of big issues and it would be nice to see some suggestions of resolution over these final matches. Diaby, Nasri, Eboue Walcott and Bendtner are all at the point of (possibly) being more than just squad players and they will (likely) have three more chances to show what they have or haven’t got. We need them to step up and get us results in these matches, or else the “clean house” (“sell them while they still have value”) brigade will have every right to crow.
Another question…Who will start in goal vs Man City? I say give Vito a shot…
so, we are TRYING to lose games by playing inexperienced keepers?
Arsenal need to play STARTING players, with the most experience UNTIL they’ve sewn up 4th place.
Until then, I don’t want to see ANY experimenting.
and its OK for fans to do whatever they want, show up, not show up, applaud, boo and hiss.
WE PAY LARGE SUMS OF MONEY … the players are PAID MASSIVE SUMS of MONEY… opposite ends of the spectrum.
We pay for the right to do as we please.
The players are PAID to do everything they can to win.
I agree. The whole concept of telling the fans what to do is absolutely absurd.
The fans FOOT the bill of this freaking experiment.
For Arsenal fans, we are either the pigeon or the statue.
In the spring of the 07/08 season, and all of last season, its been obvious for the flaws of our team. As upbeat as I am for the club,……… GK, CB, and DM were noticeable roster deficiencies.
Adding Arshavin in January of ’08, did help us stay in the top four (imo), but didn’t address most of our/my real concerns. Then in the summer Vermaelen was added, but most of us kept waiting for news of more experienced signings. They never materialized.
Frankly, with only one player being added, I couldn’t see this team challenging for the league title?
Did anyone?
So to see our team stay close up until the last 5 matches, I attribute our “consistency” to the play of Vermaelen and Song. Yes, Cesc had great performances – but for me, our improvement centered on these two players.
I believe I heard that the starting line up for the spurs was an investment of $73 million pounds, while Arsenal starting line up was 1/2 of that. Once we lost the spine of OUR key players, the flaws of our back up players came out in 3-D / HD.
Yes, “mental toughness” is certainly deserving commentary. You can see in the play of Wilshere and Ramsey, these kids have that WILL to want to win for 90 minutes. Players with these types of attitudes are who we need to be recruiting and buying (young and experienced).
The clash with City on Saturday will be monumental for the club. No one will be expecting Arsenal to field a team able to withstand the City attack. However, this is when our players usually rise to the occasion and overachieve.
I’m looking to assume the pigeon role this weekend.
I have truly wanted to say what you have have just said, for many months now but just could not come up with the appropriate words because of my anger.
Well said.
I don’t see the match vs City as “monumental”… its not as important as the Tottenham match was, or even Wigan.
Those matches could have kept us in the race to win the league.
A draw would be a good result for us.
With the injuries we have, it is just asking a lot to expect us to be consistent and competitive against top opposition.
ManCity are playing for a LOT. We aren’t really.
They have most of their best players, we do not.
I understand your sentiment, and I do believe we over-acheived, many players had good seasons… Song and Vermaelen were big keys… and Wenger did a good job of keeping us in the chase and in the Top 4.
The board will LOVE what he’s done this season… it has been a success.
We just have to finish up decently, and cement the top 4 spot… and hopefully next year we’ll address a few positions that need improvement, but not at the cost of big spending.
AND.
We have to KEEP our BETTER players… which we have NOT done in recent Summers. We SOLD good players, or they left.
I think people are finally digesting the truth, and this case it’s the equivalent of a python processing a freshly eaten buffalo. A slow, ardous, intensive process.
Or they might be trying to find another angle of delusion ;)
Love the picture Mazza. :-)
What is entertaining is to see some of the staunch Wenger supporting sites doing a bit of digesting. You know they want to re-find the optimistic notes to sing, alas…. even cult-like belief has its limits.
…. I mean seriously, 2-0 up at Wigan, coasting, handed by grace another title life, 10 min;s to go, and we managed to manufacture a loss against all the odds.
That was seriously brilliant, it takes 5 years to create that level of stupidity across a whole squad.
It was all there for everyone to see, every limitation that has beset us for 5 years still there in full glow – in the both players and the management.
A week can be a long time in football. Before the Barca return tie the site had enjoyed relatively high traffic (posts), the regulars from both camps were commenting after a very quiet season post-wise. Wholly predictable because there was hope. Now…. there is silence. Trounced by Barcelona, and unusual defeats to Spurs and Wigan have seen a season being hailed as ‘progress’ become the 5th season in a row of disappointment. The project looks as fragile as ever. If you’re looking for ‘answers’ there’s Verme and Song – both deserving of major praise. That aside, the rest is masked by the recurrance of season-killing old themes.
As for our shape, an iteration of 4-3-3 looks the best for this squad. We simply haven’t got the right personnel to revert to and sustain 4-4-2. It’s not that we can’t write a decent side on paper, it’s the fact that the decent side won’t be available often enough and we’ll have to then re-shape so that we use the odd-personnel available and that means 4-3-3. 4-3-3 is an easier mix-n-match approach when you have chosen a squad of footballing alrounders rather than a squad with defined positions in mind.
It’s 100% Wenger’s squad His choices. So don’t expect much change. It’s what he wants. Changes will be minimal. He sees CL qualification, that’s his bottom-line. The interesting question is whether he’ll accept a contract extension. For all his stubbornness he does have a sense of honour and he might(?) be musing over whether he’s the right man with the right approach. Whilst he bats away things publicly, in his heart he might be questioning whether this approach is progressing sufficiently.
I have fundamental questions around the legitmacy of extravagantly rewarding under-age under-performing players. What culture is that really breeding? We regularly hear nonsense about their mental strength and yet we know that it doesn’t manifest when its really needed. On the big ocassions we bottle it – and yet we’ve been re-building for 5 years. How many times can you say these ‘aspirational statements’ before you create a disconnect to reality. Ditto we hear about the wonderful football we play and yet is it really deserving? If you look over this season, how dynamic, compelling and convincing has our play been? How many games can you point to and say whowsa that was seriously good? Again this is after 5 years of re-building.
For a club that is no.5 on the Deloitte revenue earners list I think our aspirations should be a little more ‘now’ focused. By all means take a long-term strategic perspective and a prudent one yet for a club of our means that can be wholly consistent with being competitive now in the EPL, CL, FAC and LC. 5 years = 20 trophies missed. I’m tempted to think that 10 of those have been forfeited because Wenger isn’t interested. To me that’s a horrendously arrogant decision as well as self-defeating. Note this season, ManU, the most successful English club ever deemed it worthy to compete for the LC. Chelsea the only real challenger to ManU over the last 8 years are likely to win the FAc again. Yet Arsenal, who want to hide behind fiscal constraints and prudence, want fans to accept forfeiting those competitions in which we would have a genuine chace in. Like a few elements of our strategy it beggars belief.
Doing my part to end the “deafening silence,” but what can one really say….
I was out of town (since Wednesday) and away from my ‘puter, but yesterday (at 5 a.m.!) I got up and drove across to San Francisco to join 2 other gooners and the bartender at the pub that probably had 50 for the Barca and Spurs matches. And if that wasn’t bad enough, there was the end of the match….
You could just about see it happening, like a horrible car crash that you cannot turn away from. It was the classic, “Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.”
The question is: where does the team go from here? And the answers are not forthcoming. We have a week and somehow we must (at least) put up a fight against a Man City team that (given our injuries) will sport superior talent at almost every position on the pitch. You would think that our manager and players would find motivation for that one, but on yesterday’s display, you have to wonder. I’ll be watching that match and hoping (as I always do), but seeing all the outrageous opportunities we’ve been handed (and that we’ve squandered) I cannot say I have any (positive) expectations.
A second question might be: What is this team all about? It seems (at least w/Cesc sidelined), and with the exception of Sol Campbell, that the current squad is almost ashamed to show any fight. Instead (maybe?) there is a belief in a technical superiority that (on occasion) has allowed us to shrug off on-field disappointments and just plug along, eventually getting some decent results (late wins vs Stoke, Hull and Wolves, Draws vs Everton, Barca). That’s not a bad thing, but there also seems to be a massive immaturity that sees us switching off, making fatal errors and failing to close matches from winning positions as we did yesterday and at West Ham and Birmingham City. What’s the point of getting there, if you can’t go on and hold it?
Longer term the outlook doesn’t seem much better. Yes, we may be missing a substantial core of the starting team and (obviously) we will have different bodies out there in the future (at GK and CB, most certainly) but given massive opportunities the squad players (nurtured/coddled by AW?) have uniformly failed to step up. There are always a few decent moments, but nobody seems to have gotten over the hump to become true class players with the ability to carry the team forward.
Of course, railing about it on a chat site seems the height of pointlessness, but there you go….
As a hippe optimist I hope you were wearing sun flowers in your hair.
In terms of the future lineup, I am sure there will be lots of discussions about which players to keep and which ones to sign when the season ends in three games time.
Meanwhile, I wanted to start another debate right away. Do you guys think the 4-3-3 has worked well or should we go back to 4-4-2? I know that both systems will work well with the right personnel or put otherwise, as long as the players are right, the system doesn’t matter. Nevertheless, which one do you think is best suited for the current team and will necessitate the least amount of changes to make us victorious again?
Personally, I am neither here nor there.
4-3-3 is supposed to be flexible and uses our central loving midfielders a lot better. At the same time, it relies too heavily on specialized players for certain positions like RvP and Cesc and falls apart when they are not right. It is not exactly helping us defensively very much.
4-4-2 is a lot more rigid, but it does mean two players in each position, thereby reducing the reliance on a single player (like RvP or Cesc). It would allow different combination of players, especially in the front two, but would probably need more new signings in the area of DM and wingers.
What do you think?
http://www.7amkickoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Wenger.jpg
Is there a Big 4, a Big 3, or a Big 2?
This year, lots of people probably refined the definition of ‘Big’ clubs from 4 to 3, with Liverpool dropping out of the CL places. But, considering this season (League won by Chelsea/Utd, and suppose for now Chelsea win the Cup), then only two, count ’em TWO, clubs will have won the last SIX league titles, and ONE of them winning three of the last four FA Cups.
We’ve got to do something about that. Arsenal not winning the league for six years, and anything at all for five years now, wouldn’t be that bad if the spoils the club missed out on went to an assortment of different clubs each year (a la US sports), but they don’t- they go to just two other clubs. The longer Arsenal go without breaking up that duopoly, the harder it will be to do so. Who knows, maybe City will break it up before us at this rate. And, if Spurs get 4th, then the top 4 will be composed of Arsenal and Arsenal’s THREE FIERCEST rivals. Very little room for error when that is the case.
For an American analogy, just imagine how pissed Dallas Cowboys fans would be, if every season they failed to win the Super Bowl, it was won by either Washington or Philly… and then the Giants were to round out the top 4 teams that dominated the NFL.
St Totteringham’s day will come late this year, but at least it will come.
But with only 4 games to go, Spurs have conceded 5 goals less than Arsenal. I doubt we will overcome that unless Spurs lose heavily to ManU and ManCity. :(
The silence in this forum is almost deafening.
I don’t remember AA or YAMA being so quiet ever.
Well the last time Arsenal lost to Spurs in the league, AA didn’t even exist yet. (Let alone YAMA!)
I still don’t think we will fall out of 3rd place. One more win should suffice and worst case, we should get it against Fulham.
If can’t manage even that, there is nothing left to say.
I guess on the bright side, we’re not ‘Pool looking from the outside in on ANY place in Europe…
We could be next year.
being trapped in no-mans-land ain’t much fun either.
We could be out of the Champions League by the end of this season.
Doubt it. Possible, but one win will pretty much seal it for us.
A win seals it but Citeh, Fulham and Blackburn are all going to be tough games and bases on what we’ve seen from Arsenal lately, none of them are sure wins.
How do you define this second period under Wenger?
The first was magic, Wenger skillfully fused competitive attacking creative talent on to GG’s ageing foundation and it worked an absolute treat. Sure, we never enjoyed quite the consistency of ManU year-in-year-out, but it was enormously enjoyable.
The second period? Maybe it’s like being a beautiful woman who can’t have children. Admired by all, but for that…. Excuse the analogy, please think of a better one, you see we still enjoy a sense of luxury, we mix with the best at the CL table, and yet there’s this awful sense that we’ll never top the tree again under Wenger. His ideals are robbing him and us of the rewards that all great clubs feed off. It matters not that success seems so close, because the critical ingredients are never likely to be available and mixed together at the same time.
And so we wait, like Stag says, winning the money game yet watching various iterations of Wenger’s puritanical whim flatter briefly and fail whenever it counts. And Stag’s right, the chances of this fractured board turning the heat on Wenger, let alone sacking him, are almost zero. Arsenal are in the top-5 of the games revenue earners, so to a divided board the downside of losing Wenger is likely far more concerning than the upside of truely stepping up to compete with the other mega-clubs. You see, for the heat to be turned on Wenger it needs the clubs leadership/board to be in strong agreement or to be led by a strong figure with strong views. Hillwood was never that figure, Dein was the visionary, who knows what Gazidis’ terms of reference are, I’m guessing he’s likely got NO direct influence over Wenger. So we sit and wait, watching the mainly grey skies of the long slow boat ride to China. This could drag on for another 4 years (current contract + 3 year extension). More iterations as the stubborn Wenger grows even more determined to see things done according to the ‘values’ that he has ordained.
“No Really This Should Be Fun”
___________________
As a supporter you have feelings before and throughout a game. Here was mine.
Before: Once Chelsea lost to Spurs and reinstated our slimist of titles hopes I felt a little dread on this game. Why? It’s that idea that once the pressure is on and there is something serious riding on a game we flump.
During: This team is really struggling to play our game. I see upps for Rosicky from JD, yet truth is I have been gobsmacked at how often he has lost possession by poor passes (particularly against Spurs) and being caught in possession (Wigan).
Nice: Bendtner and Walcott are showing a certain understanding that is resulting in goals. That is good.
Two up: Ok, that’s really good, can we put the foot down and get a few more goals to help the goal diff?
Time goes by: The short answer is no, we still haven’t got a killer instinct nor killer capacity.
Eboue/Merida warm up: Oh no. Don’t try the shut up shop thing, it never ever works. Where’s the knight in shining armour RvP? Tight muscles I hear after 23 min’s , lol!!!!!
Goal: This was coming. Surely Wenger won’t bring on Eboue/Merida now will he?
Subs: On come Eboue/Merida, and off comes Walcott, more dread. this is playing into Wigan’s hands. Now you know I don’t rate Walcott currently, yet for pete’s sake. Attack = Bendtner + nobody. And we know we can’t defend.
Goal 2: With only the slow Bendtner up top we’re even more lame than before. So Wigan smell blood. Fab, who has looked nervous all night, flumps. What a mess.
Goal 3: We’re all at sea and bang, wunda-strike. At this point I laughed.
Enter white knight: Pathetic, stupid, retarded. With 2 minutes or so remaining Robin frantically de-robes. I mean, you know, does any one else see the rank banality in the use of our subs? Now, it’s true this is nothing new. Yet, there is NOTHING to lose in trying to take the latest grace bestowed on us by the leaders. But no…..
Bed: For the first time I think we fully deserve the label ‘bottlers’.
Ha Ha! Now we know its serious!
When I first mentioned the term four or five years ago it was still in its embryonic stage.
Now everyone’s at it(I even think Andez did so at the start of the season ;) )
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1267090/Arsene-Wenger-blasts-bunch-Arsenal-bottlers.html?ITO=1490
It’s a bit depressing and a bit funny in a manic sarcastic kind of way.
I’ve said in the past that for us to win we needed a lot to go our way. We needed external (other challengers struggling) and internal things (crocks and younglings coming good) to gel to an unlikely degree.
The irony is that even in this season where a massive amount has gone our way we still haven’t been up to it.
ManU and Chelsea have both been poor. Liverpool have imploded. We’ve had some internal success with Song and a little bit of progress with Bendtner and Diaby.
Yet still, in the clutch we bottle it every time.
It makes Arsene’s strategy of ditching the cups look even more retarded than ever.
I don’t think ManU and Chelsea have been “POOR”.
Both have not been dominant, except when playing us head-to-head.
The league has been more competitive, and home-field advantage has been massive in the EPL this year.
ManU and Chelsea have simply been a bit more consistent than us (and everyone else), and just slayed us directly in matches.
That is the difference in the standings between Arsenal, United and Chelsea.
They both took 6 points from us.
Most of the other leagues in Europe, have been equally wide-open title races, so its not just England.
I think it makes(made) for an exciting season where anything could happen and did.
It gives Wenger hope as well, that we aren’t truly that far off the top, and we just need a few tweaks and less injuries.
Man U lost both Ronaldo (former World Player of the Year and scorer of 42 goals in a single campaign) and Tevez (who you have- rightfully- expressed admiration for several times) without really replacing either of them. And you can’t say Berba cause he was already there before those 2 left and he still doesn’t play much. Their attack was definitely weakened by those 2 departures.
Chelsea are a year older. Drogba and Essien (?) were at the ANC, both Coles have been injured a lot, Ballack seems to have become a bit stale, and they’ve had lots of injuries at the back.
Don’t get me wrong, I think if you win the league then you deserve to win the league (regardless of what SAF said in 2002). Circular logic yes, but pretty hard to disagree with results. Now, that being said, I think if any one of 04 Arsenal, 05/06 Chelsea, or 07-09 Man U were in the league this year, then ’10 Chelsea and ’10 Man U would be a good bit off the pace. At least as far as Arsenal are behind right now.
I’m a slow learner Maz. ;-)
Arsenal appeared poised to haul themselves back into the title race as they led relegation-threatened Wigan 2-0 at the DW Stadium with just over ten minutes remaining.
Wigan, though, proceeded to conjure an astonishing comeback, and with it the most stunning victory in their Premier League history.
Ben Watson first sidefooted the Latics back into contention in the 80th minute, followed in the 89th by a howler from goalkeeper Lukasz Fabianski on his 25th birthday.
The Pole fumbled Charles N’Zogbia’s corner, allowing Titus Bramble to nod home the equaliser, despite Samri Nasri’s attempt to clear the ball off the line.
Then in the first of four minutes of injury time N’Zogbia struck a stunning winner to leave Wenger to describe the loss as the most disappointing of the season.
“I believe we were not focused, not disciplined and were caught,” he said. “In football you have to stay focused for 90 minutes otherwise you run the risk of being punished.
“That is especially the case against a team with nothing to lose, fighting not to go down. You knew they would not give up, and in the end we were punished for that.
“Even at 2-0 I never thought the game was over. I could see we were having difficulties keeping the ball, creating other chances, and when you do not create chances in football you are in trouble.
“After going 2-0 up our game lacked cohesion and discipline, and I always felt we could be punished.”
Wenger refused to divulge what he told his players after the loss, one which leaves them six points adrift of leaders Chelsea and with only nine to play for.
Rather than being in the title hunt, Wenger is now looking over his shoulder at Spurs and Manchester City.
“My target is to win the next game, that’s all we can do,” he said. “Manchester City and Spurs can still catch us, so we have to win at least one of our remaining games.”
Cheekily asked as to who his money was now on for the title, Wenger gave a naturally dismissive response.
“I don’t mind and I don’t care,” he said. “All I know is if we had won today then we would have been back in it.”
It is a result that leaves Wigan on the brink of safety as they are seven points clear of the relegation zone.
After losing eight and drawing one of their previous nine league meetings with Arsenal, this was a remarkable debut top-flight win over the Gunners, adding to victories earlier this season against Chelsea and Liverpool.
“We finally got the rewards our performance deserved,” Roberto Martinez said. “We started the game well, played face-to-face with Arsenal, but then we began to lose the ball cheaply and the game was going away from us.
“Not many teams come back from 2-0 down against Arsenal, and the reason is the effort and belief the players showed today. Moments like this are vital for our club, are the reason why we are involved in football and what our fans deserved.
“To beat Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal in one season is something that doesn’t come by accident, and I’m extremely proud of the players.”
I was on the GDC and early in the game I said I just hoped we finished in the top three. Right now, I’m just hoping we finish in the top four.
If Spurs and City win out and draw their game with each other, we are in big trouble as we’re struggling just to beat Wigan. Neither Man City, Fulham, or Blackburn are pushovers. We really needed to win today.
Perspectively, we had our second string CB’s, second string GK, and third string DM. Reality is that’s how we could finish the season. You knew Wigan were going to have a proper go at that group. Their crowd was sensational today and stayed behind their team throughout.
I think Wenger should have pulled Nasri and Theo after an hour. They were ghosts after that point. Fabianski is, technically, a very descent GK. However, he’s got a psychological block that may prevent him ever becoming a top keeper. He needs to see a shrink. Kudos to N’Zogbia. His goal was top drawer.
Campbell and Rosicky were our best players today. Theo started brightly but, prophetically, faded. Bendtner got little to no service. I guess we’ll have to wait and see how it all works out.
Just came back home from a concert. Seems many of the regulars missed the match. In hindsight I’m glad I did as well. I still followed it till 2-1 on my phone (then Akon came on and it got a bit too crazy). Sound’s like Theo continued to misuse his immense pace. And that Fabianski stuffed up. Excellent. We surely need a keeper and I think we’ll get one. Better lose 3-2 than to draw 2-2. It’s a sad time when we’re preferring a loss to a draw.
I’ve been a staunch supporter of Wenger and most of his decisions (even though I have not always agreed with them), but I do admit that not getting the keeper situation fixed will see me start to slide over to ‘the other side’. This whole Buffon to City thing looks promising. Maybe they have to let Shay Given go? Anyway… More after I’ve suffered through the match reports and highlights.
Don’t let the memeory of an exciting season of good football be
blighted by today’s last 10 minutes.
Yes, it was ugly, but it really didn’t shed light on anything
we didn’t know already.
Fabianski is not a keeper we can play at this level, we saw that
against Porto… and with all the injuries, we had a makeshift line-up.
This happens. up 2, to down 1…
If it means Wenger takes a more harsh look at a few things, as Mazza
said, it might be worth the ugliness, serving a greater good.
But we still have 3rd place, and financially secure, and Wenger said
the other Big 3 are on the down cycle, we are on the RISE!
So… embrace the plan.
Besides.
We won the Inter-Cities-Toto-Fairs Cup in 1970.
Be PROUD!
:)
come on you World Cup!
I see you’re doubling down on the “Arsenal were a nothing club pre-GG” sentiments.
Any other clown who made that statement would have left that in the last thread and hoped people.
Not you!
Ass clown :-)
nope, just threw it out there again … just for you Fred…
keyboard TOUGH GUY.
We won the double in 1971.
woohoo!
Now you are not even trying to make sense.
“Arsenal were a NOTHING club in terms of winning before the GG era” – Staggy “Slow” boy
Oh, that is wrong, we did win 5 league titles in the 1930’s…
That is something that makes me proud of being an Arsenal supporter.
My grandfather was about 15 in 1930, so its important to Gooners everywhere.
We get it, everything before 1986 is completely irrelevant!
We have heard your retarded logic … now go preach your imbecilic creed to a bunch of thick necked Red Sox fans outside Fenway that they were a nothing club before 2004. They would violently send you to the hospital ASAP.
Keep digging your hole deeper! Amusing shit!
Do you really think Sox fans care about the World Series in 1918?
If you do, you know even less about sports than I thought.
We were a SHIT baseball team for NUMEROUS years… with a blip in 1975, and in 1986.
80 plus years without a Championship, and SHIT teams that drew horrendous crowds… and had poor support until the 1975 team.
Up until the 1986 team, you could walk up and get tickets to a game EVERY day.
US Sports in major cities is completely different, you have basketball, football and hockey… not just soccer and cricket.
So, if you don’t win, there is much to watch and support.
So, don’t tell me about Boston sports.
Crawl back into your hole behind your keyboard, you punk.
Since you think they dont care about it, then go to a pub with Sox fans and do as I said.
This website wont be hearing from you in a long while.
Your statement was not only completely ridiculous but 100% false. You cant make up FACTs.
Fuckers like you who dont have a grip on facts and try to rationalize away their indefensible statements are the reason our country is down in the dumps.
Why play freaking 4-3-3 when you dont have a DM????
Eastmond is exactly like Denilson in playing style (slow, lacks bite, lacks strength, cant tackle, cant head) but he has match experience (and am not suggesting match experience will improve him!)
With this kind of player why bother having that position? Because Wenger is a rigid, tactical OAF who cant be flexible about the most obvious things.Barcelona are the biggest 4-3-3 team yet when they dont have Yaya or Busquets they play 4-4-2 !!!
4-3-3 for us means Diaby and Nasri run forward often leaving ONLY Eastmond defensively! In a 4-4-2 both of them would be more defensive… so in other words, a 4-3-3 is ONLY defensively stable for us IF Song is playing DM! Even if Wenger is such a blind fucker, cant the other coaches see this big vacuum in CM in our play and advise him?? Spurs played 4-4-2 till the end yesterday, because their two CMs where doing defensive duties. Instead we have 3 men in the middle and leave the youngest, weakest, smallest, least skillful and least experienced to play the sole DM role!
Genius tactics!
PS: No point talking about Fabianski. Almunia, Fabianski should both be let go for FREE this summer. Just give them their salary for the rest of their contract and tell them to leave the club. No point selling them.
We should also get rid of Mannone pre-emptively. No point taking a chance on him because he has already followed the path of Almunia and Fabianski with regards to flops. Young players at big clubs should have 1 or 2 chances … NEVER MORE!
Wow, Silvestre bagged for Arsenal. Never thought I’d see the day… (his Arsenal total is now equal to Clichy’s)
At first I only looked at the full-time score of this game, but now I realize how odd (and pathetic) it was. It was Arsenal in reverse: we’re supposed to do the post-80th minute scoring! How the hell did we concede thrice in the final 10 minutes and twice in the last two minutes?? Is Manuel Almunia REALLY the best keeper at Arsenal? I read the second goal was a real clusterf**k by Fabianski. I guess I’ll reserve judgment till I see some video of the match. But nevertheless, I am pleading to you Arsene, PLEASE buy a keeper!
Shit, I thought the game was just about to start. Oh well, guess it wasn’t worth it. We’re handed a gift and we throw it away.
Last week, there were dreams of Arsenal taking 1st, then after the mid-week loss there was hope for 2nd but now it seems holding onto 3rd would be an achievement. Strangely, there could still be a final insult to this season if Arsenal completely collapse and allow Spurs to take 3rd place.
Well, like we’ve been saying, anything could happen this season. Right now they’re 7 pts behind us with a game in hand. Let’s hope it does not come to that.
One step closer to Wenger possibly going. A greater good is being served here. Hopefully we completely fu*k up the rest of the season and he has no choice.
I feel like an idiot scrapping my plans to watch this shit.
This emotional investment in Arsenal is simply not worth it.
Dont worry, City would smash this team to smithereens next week. Am talking 5-0, 6-0 shit.
I can see Tevez or Adebayor going right thru the middle of Denilson/Eastmond, Silvestre and any of the clowns we have in goal.
And they will continue doing that for 90 minutes.
Vieira, even in his old age, will KILL these guys.
Meanwhile we will blunt our own attack by playing ONE upfront and ineffective ***** on the wings, just because Wenger suddenly discovered 4-3-3.
Didn’t see the game. All I need to see is the box score and see we gave up 3 goals in the final ten minutes of the game. Disgusted. Unacceptable. Borderline criminal. Quite simply, NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Fabianski……….. I mean gimme a break.
Typical, isn’t it? Just as I predicted – first torture and then misery.
I think Arsene has to take a SERIOUS look at himself.
Since we couldn’t even manage clean sheet, please clean all the sh*t in the team, AW …..
If you consider Wenger’s comments after the Spurs game and Almunia’s failure to make the bench, I’d say Mooney’s done, boys. He won’t play again this season.
DAG – thanks for the solid write up……
I think our manager is being manager; after 80 minutes of lack luster effort at Spurs, shaking up the line up.
Combined with the Chelsea loss, I think the team will respond with a roaring performance. RvP on after the hour.
Go Gunners.
Oh and guess what – SOL CAMPBELL IS OUR CAPTAIN TODAY!!!!!!!
Fabianski? Put the house on Wigan!
Seriously has Arsene thrown in the towel on the season?
Who the hell is Henderson?
My guess is that Arsenal traveled to Wigan yesterday (before the Spurs result) and Arsene had already left a few players behind!
But didn’t Wenger say that Spurs should beat Chelsea to be consistent. And Spurs actually listened to Wenger. However, Wenger clearly expected them to not to. The strangeness of this season’s EPL continues.
Yeah and Wenger’s PR bullshit continued too, apparently.
WOW Almunia fails to even make the bench today:
Arsenal Starting XI: Fabianksi, Sagna, Clichy, Campbell, Silvestre, Diaby, Nasri, Rosicky, Eastmond, Walcott, Bendtner
Subs: Van Persie, Vela, Mannone, Eboue, Traore, Merida, Henderson
Lets just go for a regular 4-4-2 and ditch Sweet Brazilian Ankles.
What is the point of sitting down on a 4-3-3 using a DM that doesnt have a clue about defending or anything else?
Denilson was a “doubt”, so we may see Eastmond start.
With Arsenal seemingly out of the title race, I was planning to skip the Wigan game and go out with my family. But with Spurs (of all teams) beating Chelsea, there is a glimmer of hope again. The chances are so remote, it almost seems impossible. We have to win ALL four games AND Chelsea have to drop points in 2 of their 3 games AND ManU have to drop 3 points in their 3 games. Still, it is enough for me to watch the Wigan game and hope. The point I am making is, oh wait, I think I have already made it, haven’t I?
“I don’t think Arsenal were ever in the title race. It was simply a case of Chelsea and ManU screwing it up that gave Arsenal the illusion that they are in it. Mind you, it did not mean that Arsenal could never win it, but simply that the chances were very remote. So us not making it should not be a surprise.
Deep inside, I don’t know how many of us ever thought we would win it. I doubt it was too many. But when the # of remaining games reduced and we were still in it with a shot, albeit a long shot, I guess we were simply too excited about it. Maybe that is why we are so disappointed.”
Simply put, more torture and likely misery for Arsenal fans. :(