Through Red Color Glasses: Arsenal v Chelsea, Post Match Review
Its the day after the emphatic Chelsea 3-0 win at the Emirates. If you read the blogsphere, news, and twitter like I do you know there is a wealth of doom merchants out there. Heck, I am sure a lot of you reading this are doom merchants. 4 1/2 years without any silverware will do that to you. But maybe I saw a different match yesterday then everyone else. But then again, maybe I am just pig headed and stupid and refuse to give up hope. If you don’t know I live in the Philadelphia area where until last year we hadn’t had a Championship team in 25 years. So 4 1/2 years is short – unsatisfying but short.
Down but not out. Yet.
Anyway, like everyone I am gutted by the loss. Yes, I hate Chelsea. But they are without a doubt the best team in the EPL right now. If they can maintain it through May still remains to be seen. They are older than most teams and they lose key players in January for possibly 10 matches. Yes, 10. FIFA rules stipulate that national teams can call players up to 2 weeks prior to the first match in any tournament. So there is a possibility that some of Chelsea’s players could be gone before the end of this month. So, we’ll see what effect that has on them. True, Roman can buy in January but who remains to be seen. I still think Chelsea have some falter in them – remember 2005 they had an 18 point lead (I think that number is right) in December, then went on a poor run of form that whitled their lead down to 7. Thats an 11 point drop. 11 points are what we are behind. 8 if you consider we will win our game in hand.
However, I would like to go over some of things I saw yesterday, as did some other people. (Thanks to twitter follower Warren Czapa for the idea and framework).
- Our defencive problems are more a case of philosophy than talent. Vermaelen, Gallas, Sagna, Clichy/Gibbs/Traore are as good as any tandem out there. They just need a ‘keeper they can have confidence in.
- Gallas really is a world class defender. He has refound his form with his current central partner. TV5.
- Theo Walcott, while he has a way to go, is becoming a solid option. He and Vela both changed the game yesterday and in the 2nd half created more chances. Yes, he is pacy, but he also has the ability to outplay defenders. What he really needs is more time, and a lot more muscle.
- Eduardo has improved his link up play, but looks tenative around the box. He is more suited for a winger role where he can take advantage of someone feeding him rather than he being the feeder. In lower level games this is sufficient enough but against top teams he has only been effective on the wing.
- Bendtner is likely to overtake Eduardo in the pecking order when he comes back. But Nicky B isn’t the “B” all end all. We need to have another striker on the team. He needs to come in by January. Van Nistleroy? Gignac?
- Vela is good, but also has a long way to go. Every game he has come on to, he has changed the dynamics of the play on the pitch. He needs more time playing and not in the trainer’s room.
- Song can really dominate the midfield. He is a vast improvement over the last few seasons. With time – I believe he can be as good as Vierra.
- Arshavin is desperate to win something. And he dishes it out when the other side get nasty. Absolutely loved his getting in the face of Cech, winning the ball numerous times. He was up for the game. Oh, and that goal was a goal. And yes, it would’ve changed things. And no I don’t drink the cool aid.
- This team was not bullied yesterday. They did not get man handled as was written throughout the press. I know am one of the very few who thought this team showed up yesterday to play. Not just pass the ball around mind you. They pressed the midfield and shut out Essien, Lampard, Deco and Joe Cole. They also gave some as good as they got. Vermaelen nearly cut Drogba’s legs off at the beginning of the 2nd half. There were also moments throughout the game that other players were being as physical with Chelsea as they have been with us.
- If the penalty Drogba got that led to his 3rd goal – why wasn’t the pull down on Vela a foul on the edge of the box (if not an outright PK)? If you watch the replay Vela is dragged down by an arm over his shoulder. No, I don’t think Dudu should’ve had one. He slipped in the rain. Vela was hauled down.
- This team now plays a full 90 minutes. In the past you could argue that the team or players, when down, just gave up on the pitch. They went from 100% to 65%. This team does not do this. Even when down 2-0 they controlled the play and had the better of it. Unfortunately a bad penalty (whether it was bad call is open for debate) in front of the box and Drogba vs Almunia – well it wasn’t going to be.
- Chelsea played the game exactly as I thought they would. Like the top managers in Serie A, Ancelotti does not necessarily play to win against top opposition. He would rather grind out a draw rather than open up a game to possible counter-attacking football. Chelsea played wait and when and if the opportunity presented itself they went for it. Other than that they were content to sit back.
- Drogba is the most opportunistic player in the league. He can go long spats without a mention and then suddenly pop up and score. He not only does it to Arsenal, but pretty much everyone else. Oh and that free kick – ouch what a scorcher. And Arsene, I disagree he had a lot to do with yesterday – so did the cross bar. But Drogba and Cole were the only attack Chelsea had all day. Not that they needed anything else mind you. The manager shares my thoughts on Drogba: “Drogba is a good player. It’s funny because he doesn’t do a lot, but he’s efficient in what he does. You would be surprised by the number of balls he touched on Sunday. But Drogba is a great player, nobody can deny that. He’s very efficient. I think as well, at the moment he’s in a period where he kicks the ball and it goes in. On the first goal, at the moment he has complete confidence and he doesn’t wonder ‘will I score or not?’. He just goes for it and he did very well. It’s a great goal, the first one, but it’s a goal of a striker in complete confidence.” – from the manager’s official email
- Maybe booing Cashley isn’t the best idea. It feeds into his ego and he seems to get better for it. I say let him come on quietly and don’t pay him any mind.
- Finally, why I have not given up hope (and maybe you shouldn’t either)? Manchester United won the league last year with a 1W 3L 2D against the big four. The key is the lesser teams. With the exception of Sunderland we are doing the work that needs to be done there.
Look I know some of these make light of the issues and I am not so blind as to see there still remain some fundamental issues with the team. However, I also am not going to jump off the band wagon when things don’t go right. It is a fundamental flaw with me that I have so much emotion invested in my team that I refuse to give up hope. When will I admit we lose the season? When mathmatically we are out of it. Until then I believe that anything can happen in this league.
Okay guys let me have it!
105 comments
Leave a reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
I have witnessed that good real estate agents everywhere are starting to warm up to FSBO Promoting. They are noticing that it’s not just placing a sign in the front area. It’s really regarding building human relationships with these traders who someday will become consumers. So, once you give your time and energy to serving these traders go it alone : the “Law of Reciprocity” kicks in. Great blog post.
Oh, a great article! I have no clue how you were able to say this report..it’d take me days. Well worth it though, I’d assume. Have you considered selling ads on your website?
Stag, it’s not fair for you to judge the team like that.
A simple example. Say back in 2002 season, if Henry out for the 2nd half of the season, would we have done the “double”? Then in 2004, if Henry again out for the 2nd half of the season, would we have won the league, let alone going all season unbeaten?
Let’s look at what happened these recent 3 seasons –
2 season ago – van Persie started out brightly, then in a meaningless international friendly for Holland he picked up an injury and out for virtually the 2nd half of the season.
Last season – Fabregas out for a few months.
This season – it’s a de javu for van Persie all over again just like 2 seasons ago.
Just before van Persie was out, I remember writing him being our MVP so far this season. And he really is.
We are talking about the spin of the team here. For Arsenal, it’s Gallas/Vermaelen – Fabregas – and van Persie.
Any side would have struggled when one of your key players out for half a season. Imagine Man U without Rooney / Liverpool without Torres / Chelsea without Drogba for half a season…
Do they have a good enough “back up” to replace those KEY players?
Same, had Henry out for half a season back in 2002 and 2004, would Kanu and Wiltord be able to fill the gap and led us to the title?
That’s why I believe fans should always keep faith. ‘Cos yes, it’s been tough luck for us, that one of our KEY players always hurt himself and out for a lengthy period of time in a season. This is something nobody want to see, yet in truth, it’s impossible to prevent. In van Persie’s case, how to prevent him from getting chopped down while playing for Holland?
But you never know what’s gonna happen to our rivals as well. They may have had the luck so far when comes to injury. But no one can be sure that whether they would suffer the same fate as us somewhere down the road.
Back in 1998, had Roy Keane not going down injury, we might not have been able to recover from a 12 points deficit to win the league.
Of course, we can’t count on our rivals’ misfortune. Our team must have to do their best, so when opportunity arises, we would be able to grab it with both hands.
Bottom line here is – if our team is not good enough, how to explain our form prior to van Persie’s injury? Remember, this was the same side everybody expected us to struggle breaking into top 4 (even with our full strength side) back in the summer. Yet we were scoring goals for fun, and went 12 matches unbeaten.
This is not a bad side. Eduardo so far has been disappointing. But he has only started in his new lone striker role for two matches. It’s way too early to write him, and indeed, us as a team off yet.
Andez, no, we are not a bad side. We are a good team. We are a top 4 team right now… but I have been saying we lack depth for years. Injuries are going to happen. They do every year, to virtually every team.
I am starting to think its more down to Wenger and philosophy. The type of players he likes, brings in… fragile, offensive-minded, finesse players all over the pitch.
The focus is too much on offense to win titles.
When we went on that amazing run in the CL … made it to the finals against Barcelona… what was the reason?
The fact is… we rode an amazing DEFENSIVE run. We had a team playing defense all over the pitch, out-hustling our opponents, tracking back constantly. It was defense first that was the formula for that success. And, we had Lehmann, who was far more commanding in the net.
Something has to change.
So its possible RVP is out for the season now?
That is the worst possible injury, as he was really becoming our
“GAME CHANGER”… or the closest thing we had to one… he was becoming that clinical finisher Henry was at his best.
I hope that we go for a keeper in January… how possible is that?
Yes, we might need another striker, but again… I don’t think scoring goals, is as much of a problem as letting them in for us.
There isn’t much sense in a CL cup-tied striker at this point…
I just hope if we bring a player in… whomever it is… its not a KID.
We need an “Arshavin” type… in age, experience, and quality.
RvP is due back in March the earliest – April the latest. But given our training crew and the Arsenal run of bad luck in injuries – I am going to assume RvP doesn’t come back until next season.
If he does come back and we are still in the CL he may be of use there but really do you expect much from him after such a long layoff?
Its basically Abandon all hope with RvP for me
Arsene’s only new signings will be Bendtner and that 16 year old wonder kid……..
WILSHERE!
Guys, stop allowing these minor set backs to dislodge your logic and FAITH.
All these proclamations about how great the Chelsea teams is: this talk is blasphemy, making me want to spew.
When a team beats you 3-0 at your place, in the biggest match of the season, you have to accept that the opposition is DAMNED GOOD!
Look at their goals against. You don’t have to like them, but you have to respect that type of defensive record.
LOGIC has nothing to do with FAITH.
My two dark horses for striker (if I were AW). Why they are plausible – virtually off the radar of other teams which means a low transfer fee.
Giampaolo Pazzini – Sampdoria – 7 goals in 10 games. (5 ft 11) (25 yo)
Dieumerci Mbokani – Standard Liege – 07/08 15 goals 08/09 16 goals (6ft 1 in) (24 yo)
Pazzini would be someone who could come on right away and get in to the CL.
Mbokani is bit of project. His last two seasons he’s been good. He is not off to a good start this season and is considered a work in progress. However, based on his size, skill potential and strength he is being likened to Arsenal killer Didier Drogba.
Interesting about Mbokani….He’s cup-tied, of course, but he’s the guy who rattled our woodwork and should’ve been given the penalty when Gallas pushed him down, right? AW has definitely bought guys who he’s seen play against us (Eduardo, I believe).
And speaking of Dudu…Andes makes a strong point above, that buying a striker in January could mean Dudu is the odd man out, esp. if Bendtner comes back strong. Certainly AW is laying down the Gauntlet for Dudu, Vela and Walcott, who should all get good chances.
Given our form before the int’l break, a look at the December league schedule (Stoke, Hull, Villa at home, ‘Pool, Burnley, Pompey away would have suggested that we had a very good chance of taking nearly all available points. With the Sunderland and Chelsea losses, well….
It’ll be an interesting month with performances and results playing a big role in what we do in the transfer window. On the plus side, at least we’re talking about it.
I believe you are right about Mbokani.
It was also the way Arsenal discovered Thomas Vermaelen. Ajax were playing Arsenal in the Emirates Cup and TV5 and RvP got into a pushing match.
AW kept an eye on him ever since.
I have to admit it will be interesting what he does in January and whether or not it will be quick. I guess that depends on how we are faring.
Wenger said the Dutch federation (KNVB) downplayed the extent of the injury and kept the Gunners in the dark.
Quoted in several national newspapers, Wenger said: “I think the Dutch FA minimised the injury.
“We have just found out that it is much worse than what they told us. If a player gets injured with his country he should be sent back to his club straight away to be checked out by their doctors, not by those of the national team.
“Countries just take your player away for a friendly and then give him back and say: ‘There you go’. It doesn’t happen in any other sport. It’s a joke and is so disrespectful.”
Van Persie was sent to the same doctor as Cristiano Ronaldo, Niek van Dijk, who told them surgery was the best course of action.
“Advice was sought from the leading ankle specialist Mr Niek van Dijk, who confirmed more extensive damage had been suffered than was first diagnosed,” the Gunners said on Saturday.
Van Persie was quoted by British media as saying: “If I had known then, I would have been operated on the next day. We have all been steered in the wrong direction.
I see Arsene is quoted as looking for a striker in January – although they won’t be held to ransom! Let’s wait and see. I fear this is de javu – the Arshavin scenario revisited. We bought Arshavin a window too late. We needed to resolve our stock pre-season. We didn’t and now Arsene tries to respond in January with his back to the wall. Even if we bring in a guy, probably 2 months before he gels, and that’s optimistic.
I’ve been saying for a while that the intrusion of internationals and the manner in which clubs are not respected by international sides is unsustainable. It defies natural logic. Not surprisingly Arsene is singing the same song….
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/english-premier-league/wenger-aims-to-buy-cover-263357
Not sure if you guys are reading the papers and sites but Arsene is now quoted – yes that is right quoted as saying:
“But for the first time since the full extent of Van Persie’s injury became clear, he conceded that it had affected his thinking.
“It has to,” he said. “It has to because I didn’t feel we were in the need to buy anybody, but we will be out on the market, that is for sure. But we will only make a decision if it suits us.”
The likely targets are:
Marouane Chamakh, Bourdeaux
Andre-Pierre Gignac, Tolouse
Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, Milan
Mario Balotelli, Inter
Giampaolo Pazzini, Sampdoria
I don’t think the Chamakh deal is likely given the fact he is cup tied. Though to be honest I am not sure the likes of Eduardo and Vela wouldn’t be fine in the early knockout stages. Only if we meet an English club would I be worried with our current “strikers”
Any thoughts?
Very interesting…expect someone way off the radar, if anyone, and young and in the “moderate” price range (8-15 M pounds). I guess now we’ll be linked with just about everyone. Certainly I like the massive potential of Balotelli above the others but if we spring for anyone I would guess it would be someone who isn’t cup-tied.
The CL is a very interesting competition for us this season. With a good draw (i.e., no Chelsea until the final) we could do well. I think AW would prefer all options (January transfers) to be available for all games.
Also, I really feel that Eduardo has and will continue to suffer in England because of the diving incident. Have we gotten a spot kick since? It seems the old prejudice of us as a pack of “diving foreigners” is alive and well. In the CL, however, I think it may work in our favor as the refs may be determined to prove their “administrators” (UEFA) wrong.
I agree Steve, on Balotelli.
He looks like a typical strong, pacy, athletic type of striker AW always loves. From Weah, Anelka, Henry, Adebayor, we can see the pattern here of AW’s ideal striker choice.
But problem with BAlotelli is reportingly he got an attitude problem. That may lead him into an Adebayor II.
I guess that pretty much shows how difficult a task for a manager to buy the RIGHT player –
The player not only needs to fill the technical, physical requirement, his mental aspect and attitude also needs to be taken into consideration.
On top of that, there’s the asking price and wage to add into consideration.
Anyway, if we do buy a new striker in January, that probably very much signal the end of Eduardo’s Arsenal career.
Apparently Rosicky been negotiating a new deal. So the wide position are already full.
While it’s unlikely AW will let Vela go. We can all see his potential.
Eduardo as a result, will be likely to become the odd man out.
I just watched the game again and I still believe the difference was the quality of Ashley Cole’s crosses that led to their two goals. That ball behind the back line at that height is the most dangerous ball in the game. If you take away those two crosses, we go in at the half scoreless. Chelsea didn’t create shit else.
Goals change games. When you’re up 2 goals at the start of the second half, you don’t play the same as when you need a goal. You don’t need to take risks. You can park the bus infront of the goal and dictate the pace of the game as you see fit. Chelsea did that to perfection and you would expect that from any top team. You simply can’t afford to go behind to those guys, especially two goals behind. With our attack being so impotent, there was only going to be one winner once they scored.
With no van Persie, we’ve got to find another way to get goals or we’ll truly struggle to finish in the top four. You can’t win if you don’t score. Wenger’s got two guys to lead the line and they’re both injured. If we continue to struggle, rest assured, Wenger will have to buy someone in January.
As for tomorrow’s game, I don’t think the Chelsea result will affect them at all. There’s a total different group of players out there. We will certainly miss Merida but we can still advance.
Josh, if our attack is “impotent”… and it has been the last 2 matches, no doubt…
and Chelsea have the best defense in the league, by FAR…
Then I doubt we’d have scored if we played all night!
Chelsea’s style is such that they are very happy to play defense and wait for an opportunity to happen. We are known for coughing up goals in key matches of late, and they OWN us of late as well.
So, they just played solid defense… and waited. We blinked, goal Drogba.
We blinked again, and its all over.
Yes, goals change games. You HAVE to get ahead of Chelsea, or your likely done… and if they drew 0-0, it would not be a bad result for them… so we always had to score a goal, and go forward.
I agree that this result will have little to no effect on tomorrow’s match or even the upcoming weekend’s match.
But 11 points behind Chelsea, and there is no longer pressure on us… we’ll need a miracle.
Yes Stag, I don’t know if u remember LoveG’s quote “when they created Premiership, and SKY came along, they had created a monster”.
As you known how LoveG and I got along, but this quote of him was one of the best I ever read and stuck in my mind ever since.
He’s so damn right. On one hand, perhaps I should be thankful that without the Prem and SKY, and the increasing globe interest of the game because of them, we might not be able to get to watch so many live games as we do today.
On the other hand, a lot of things in football today I am sicked of it. Had not because my love for Arsenal, I would have stopped watching football altogether.
soccerfreak posted some Bill Shankly quotes up there, I love it. But can’t help but wondering, had Shankly still alive and be a manager of today’s game, he would not be thinking the same way the way he did during the yesteryears.
Shankly lived in the era footballers probably really wore the (club) shirt with pride. Today, I am not sure how many footballers really wearing the kits (whichever club he plays for) with pride. Like the Wayne Rooney classic “once a Blue, always a Blue”…. yeah right.
There is some truth to this Andez.
More money, more matches on TV… but it has changed the game.
It’s a real catch-22… but its always going to go the way of the money.
If they set up a European Super League, I think I’d stop watching.
A player playing his whole career for one team, is truly a rarity nowadays… in most sports.
I’m glad you added ‘in most sports’. The kind of thing we’re seeing in Ruropean football, started in the NFL and NBA 10 years ago, being generous. I don’t follow NASCAR myself, but I have a friend who does, and also says success has ruined that sport for him.
——————-
While I’m here,
Stagg, thanks for sharing the details of your trip. That was a really good read. I haven’t been to London in a long-time, before I became a Gooner. Were I to go again, what you describe, and what it costs, would probably turn me off. Although, you did get to see it in HD.
Anyway, goodonya.
To answer DAG’s question above, the loss at Sunderland for me, felt like we just didn’t get the bounces/calls AND we were just back from the int’l break and attempting to regroup. With a week together (including an easy game in the CL) I thought we had a chance to work out some of our kinks and put a product out there with some cutting edge to it. The fact that we were unable to do so was what was so extremely disappointing.
For me the Chelsea game was an opportunity to show that the depth in our squad was a high quality depth, but all the players out there, perhaps with the exception of Fabregas (who played with fervor but made his fair share of poor passes/decisions), Song (mysteriously subbed at the half) and Gallas (who whiffed the ball which bounced through for Vermaelen’s OG) looked overmatched and naive compared to the Chelsea players. To be fair, we were playing to win the match and Chelsea had the luxury of being content to absorb our pressure (something our defense simply cannot do) and hitting us on the counter. They had a group of mature players, playing a mature strategy. They will be extremely difficult to beat and I think smart money would be on them for multiple trophies this season.
What the past week has shown me is that we are a team divided between older and perhaps jaded players (Arshavin, Gallas, Rosicky, Eduardo) and younger, immature ones, who show potential but will always be physically pushed around and outsmarted by stronger more mature players. Who do we have who are in the middle (24-27 years of age)? Our 1st choice fullbacks (Sagna and Clichy), Senderos (biding time until he’s gone in January?), Eboue (at best a squad player, at worst a clown who we really should dispense with) and RVP, injured (again). RVP (and to a lesser extent the fullbacks) was a real link between the two groups of players (perhaps he should have been named as the captain?) and he was coming into his position, working hard with the other players to exploit space on the pitch. His combination of hardwork, positional awareness and above average finishing class, cannot be replaced by anyone currently in the squad. In a lot of ways the attacking portion of the team was built around him and we need to lower our expectations for this season accordingly.
Similarly I think there were a couple of moves by AW indicative of how we need to further reduce our expectations for the season–the starting of Denilson over Rosicky and the subbing of Song rather than Denilson at Half time. Denilson is a solidly skilled player but has at least 2-3 more years before he reaches any sort of physical maturity. His abilities with the ball are solid but it will be a while until he posesses the experience to position himself or the ability to assert himself meaningfully against a team of the class of Chelsea. Hopefully AW’s investment in him pays off in the future, it would be hard to argue that it’s paying off now. In the meantime, it seems that Rosicky has lost his role in the team, which saddens me as he seems a wonderfully complementary player to Cesc and Arshavin (and RVP, before the injury).
So as we move forward, I’m very interested to see who AW plays in the CC match as it will be revealing about what he sees as the future of the squad (first-teamers will be rested, presumably) and I hope we can at least scare City a bit, and not come away with further injuries, physical OR mental. After that we simply must take care of business (Stoke)with the following league match v Liverpool suddenly becoming a very important one for righting the ship.
I still maintain hope that we can do it, solidify our position in the league and with good draws and a better team dynamic have some legitimate success in the cups once we’re into the new year. I won’t be holding my breath about Arsene buying (or selling) in January, but you never know.
A critic……A legless man that teaches running.
Chelsea did not let us have our passing and possession game 1st half or 2nd half. THEY COULD NOT GET THE BALL FROM US.
The problem is our tactics in the final third, which is an ongoing issue for many teams and managers. We don’t have the height in attack, to take advantage of high crosses (as Villa did to defeat Chelsea), nor do we have the physical strength to break through their back 4. We are weak on set plays.
Our team is built on fluid play, technical and tactical superiority; we should be going around the back four.
Watch our fall season of 07/08. Constantly getting players to the by-line and crossing the ball back away from goal OR low hard crosses in front of the goal……In addition to the killer pass and long ball options.
From play this season, there are some positional issues that our manager should address, but this team has promise and only needs playing time together to build the understanding.
I disagree. They let us have the ball. They usually do. They play us perfectly, knowing we will likely choke and they will pounce. How many times does it have to happen for Wenger to see it?
This team, as is… will never win a title. Defense has to be more of a focus, and that starts at keeper.
How many times did Arshavin, Cesc, & Nasri take the ball away from their players – from Essien, J. Cole, and Lampard……more than vice versa!
Chelsea want to strut their power and dominate at every third……look at all the late arriving tackles by Mikel and the others! Late arriving is key, as the ball was played on for Arsenal possession.
Stag – we didn’t deserve to win, but our team played their style, WHICH WE COULDN’T DO LAST SPRING.
I just don’t see all the doom and gloom; certainly no reason to jettison players like Eduardo and Rosicky.
If the own goal was from Clichy, Traore, Djourou, and Diaby where would all conversation be……..Cesc’s silly foul that led to Drogba’s free kick – very little accusation, but if the foul had been committed by Denilson %&^$@!
Everyone can toss up names to bring to our club, but how would these players perform in the EPL……seriously, la liga and serie a have little parity.
Chelsea let Arsenal have possession. We don’t win many 50/50 balls against Chelsea, because they are physically stronger.
They let us keep the ball… and play a very controlled style defensively. They limit actual scoring chances, so teams need a wonder-goal to open the scoring. They play this game all the time… did it against United as well… 0-0 for as long as necessary, and they wait to pounce on an error. They are convinced they have better defense, and will be able to poach a goal with Drogba or Anelka.
Eduardo is a soft finesse player. Rosicky is a finesse player. Most of our players are finesse, and can’t deal with a physical battle.
Doom and gloom?
No. Not for me, just reality. We will NEVER win shit if we don’t focus more on defense. We play pretty football, and have nice players. It is fun and enjoyable to watch. But we will not beat Chelsea if we played them over and over. You have to be able to adjust, change, morph into a plan B, and deal with what the other team is throwing at you.
We need a different type of player brought in. Since we don’t want to spend money, that means we’ll have to SELL off players to buy… so in my opinion, that’s where the jettisoning of players like Eduardo and Rosicky comes in.
Do you believe we can win playing this style, with these players, focusing on SCORING, not defending?
Without DEFENSE being a priority, we will never win.
Is that doom and gloom?
Stag
Arsenal do need some muscle, but muscle that can sync with teammates.
I don’t agree with most of your postulations, but that doesn’t mean you’re not entitled to express your perception. Your views are no more accurate than others (myself included), RIGHT?
I just don’t see Chelski as invincible. Arsenal lost, but I took many positives from the match that gave me optimism for the balance of the season.
I hear you. How you can take positives from that match, I’m not sure!
Chelsea, are not invincible. Nobody is… but the way they play defense, they are close. Especially over a season… as they are the least likely to drop points. They do not give away the ball often.
Yes, I’m optimistic that we will play well at times, win games, score lots of goals, and play nice and pretty. But that’s not very different than the previous 4 seasons.
I don’t see how we will ever compete for a title, without the focus being adjusted more towards defense.
If we keep on doing what we have been doing, on and off the pitch, we aren’t winning.
But as always, I hope I am wrong, and we win every trophy out there.
I just don’t know what you’d base us winning on.
Here’s my question –
I believe that our back four
Sagna, Gallas, Vermie, Clichy/Gibbs are solid enough and forming a good group (when healthy).
Do you think that this defense takes a significant leap forward if the only upgrade is in the GK position?
Again I use the hockey analogy – you see it all the time defense’s that have lapses because they are too tired covering their GKs ass – I give you Roman Chechmanek who will with the Flyers actually tried to pull himself from a game he had been scored on so many times.
I really feel that Gallas and crew do not have any comfort level in any of their keepers.
I point to the OG. Gallas goes in for it as does Vermie and neither are called off it by Almunia. That ball wasn’t some wickedly crazy cross that was bending in. That should’ve been played by the keeper had he had the freakin know how to actually communicate with his defense.
So what do you think?
DAG.
I am not sold that our back 4 is that great… but they are pretty good.
It MIGHT completely be on the keeper.
What else could it be? I think Vermaelen is pretty solid, could it be Gallas?
I would like the LB and RB to focus MORE on defensive responsibilities than going forward. But that goes back to philosophy. Wenger is about scoring goals, and playing offensive football. When we had great success, our defenders were more stay at home players. Lauren, comes to mind, not flashy, defended first… physically strong.
I really don’t like that we have nobody that we would feel comfortable with if either Gallas or Vermaelen went down.
Again, that’s depth that I harp on, and that is philosophy.
Wenger has focused on attack, in style for far too long. Defensive midfield, Keeper, strong physical players, and experienced role players… things Arsene neglects.
I believe a #1 keeper would go a long way to instilling more confidence in our back 4, but if we don’t focus on playing defense equally to offense, I am not sure it will matter.
I do NOT believe we have a true #1 keeper on our roster. But Arsene obviously thinks quite differently on that, and its importance. ATTACK, is not our problem.
Hey Stag –
I know I’ve gotten into hissy fits with you on previous stuff but I want to say sometimes I let my emotions get the best of me and well – you know.
I really am into what you have posted here. I have only been to Highbury once – in the 70’s. While I am in the States my family is from Malta and some lived in London and on a family trip I was taken to an Arsenal match and much like the kid in “Fever Pitch” I’ve been a fan ever since. Not the best fan mind you because it was always difficult to follow from afar. But a fan nonetheless.
I have no yet been to the Emirates (if it will be called that much longer). But I know exactly what you are describing.
Here in Philadelphia we used to have a stadium called the Spectrum from the late 60’s to mid 90’s when it was replaced with the Wachovia Center it was a cathedral of hockey on the East Coast. It was raucus loud and rocking. You could literally feel the building shake when the fans were up for it.
You don’t get that at the new place. Yeah it gets up from time to time but I should never ever be able to hear the hockey puch slap on a players stick when I am sitting way up in he rafters. I miss the old place immensely just for what it added to the game and being a part of something special.
I do understand why sports has gone big business – I don’t like it – I understand it. Sooner or later both the Bridge and OT will be gone. It will happen. Maybe not soon but it will. Either under Roman/the Glazers or other owners. Sadly they will happen. And sooner or later it will spread to other European cities. It sucks.
But I digress.
Anyway Stag – keep on posting. I may not like it sometimes but it does keep me on my toes.
Yeah, we used to have the old Chicago Stadium, and they didn’t call it the “Madhouse on Madison” for nothing. The United Center is LAME!! I’m not much of a baseball fan, but at least we’ve still got Wrigley.
The atmosphere thing is one thing I like about German stadiums- lots of standing room is still allowed for league matches and it makes for a great atmosphere.
College sports in the US also have more atmosphere than Pro sports, but I don’t they can match most European soccer teams.
DAG, I like a good debate, and I respect most people’s opinions. It should never get personal, as at the end of the day, we all support the same team. I love it when I am pessimistic and WRONG. It means the team is winning.
I am from Boston, but grew up a Flyers fan, believe it or not. So I have made the trip to the Spectrum to see Flyers games. I completely understand.
The old Boston Garden was the same way. The building SHOOK, literally… it was loud, the fans were on top of the action. The new Garden, is corporate. We fans are far away.
I wish they found a way to add seating to Highbury. The large capacity is something Old Trafford has going for it… for sure.
Fenway Park, as much as the seats are small … is all about the experience. You can hear the players talking.
While I would recommend seeing the Arsenal in person to anyone, it was a better experience at Highbury. I hope some of the old smaller stadiums remain.
Stag: thanks so much for the terrific write up – sharing your experience, I’m envious of your trip. Not on my list of life’s priorities, but a dream.
My pleasure.
It was a good trip. I would highly recommend to ANY fan of the sport.
But I would also say, if you are planning a trip to an Arsenal match, TRY to go see a match at either a lower division team or smaller – older stadium. (Fulham for example)
I went to see QPR on Saturday, I had been before… I love the stadium… literally in a neighborhood. It is still what English football is all about.
HIGHBURY, and the experience of going to Highbury for a match… the supporters, the neighborhood, the aura… walking out into the seating area and seeing the pitch for the first time… is exactly what made me an Arsenal (and EPL) supporter. That, unfortunately, is gone… that magical experience is not at the Emirates.
Here is my general question –
Is this loss worse because it was Chelsea or is it worse because it comes on the heels of losing to Sunderland?
To me the Sunderland loss was worse. I can’t find any fault in losing to the team that is the best in EPL right now. I can find fault in losing to a team that is a perennial mid table team.
For me, it is the Chelsea game.
Because that game told us that while we are good, we are just not good enough. We will be 3rd/4th but not1st/2nd. We will reach the quarters or semis of the CL, but not the finals or win it. That is why this is so much more frustrating.
It is like Spurs – you know that they can make it to 5th place but never to the CL.
agree. saw your response after I did mine! but the same.
This loss is worse, because it was demoralizing. We were home, with a chance to make the league title a race.
To get beat 3-0, at home, and the way in which the match played out… it just tells you (and I am sure the team), that we really are not close to Chelsea.
It is a two team race… and we are not part of it.
It also says… in my mind, that the “plan” is not on the right tracks.
You do not win titles playing pretty football without focusing on DEFENSE.
We are built to score goals and play nice football. Is there anything wrong with that? Maybe, maybe not. It is fun to watch, but you are not going to win much.
A general thing about sports – as we all know here in the US sports are now more corporate friendly than fan friendly. Exorbitant ticket prices mixed with outrageous pricing for concessions makes sports nearly inaccesible for the true fan.
There was a line in the movie Hudson Hawk about a corner bar that said something like “One day a couple of lawyers came in for a couple of white wine spritzers and now we are the local bar the locals can’t afford.”
That is the case for sports all over in the US. It seems that as the UK gets new stadiums and teams rely on their own profits to sustain the club then ticket prices will go up. The reason Chelsea is still affordable is becuase the club profits are not going to purchase players. I guess if you can point to something for the fans that a sugar daddy can add is price controls – to some extent.
I hate that we have gone bigger stadiums bigger prices.
As for the players to be sold – I can’t really disagree I just dont think thats likely any time soon.
Eduardo is not going anywhere – he just signed a new deal. Arsene is quietly going about his business of locking up his youngsters. Unfortunately I just don’t see those players getting sold.
You are right. Every single player (Cesc, RvP, Bendtner, Dudu, Theo, Vela, Diaby, Song, Denilson, Gibbs, etc.) have been signed to new contracts. Arsene is busy tying up Rosicky and Gallas. There is no chance of the team changing anytime soon.
And if nothing changes, how will the results change? Your guess is as good as mine.
Curiously I don’t hear one GK’s name amongst the names of players being resigned. Not saying it won’t happen. But I haven’t seen any of them get any kind of new deal offered.
Anyway, so let’s assume that the the team stays primarily as it is – let’s also assume that Arsene isn’t an absolute idiot and realizes he needs striker help. So that and GK would be the two serious additions I could see making.
Figure Senderos is gone. I could also see Eboue going. Remember he was almost sold this past summer. Other than that, I don’t see anything else changing.
No. Almunia signed a new deal last season (http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/almunia-i-d-like-to-stay-for-rest-of-my-career) and Fab signed one in June (http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/fabianski-signs-new-long-term-contract).
Actually, every single player has signed a new deal since May 2008. Even fringe players like Wilshere, Merida, Coquelin, etc.
The only exception I can think of are Gallas, Rosicky and Sagna (?).
Wish i could forward to Arsene. The ambitions seem similar, but the attitude needs to be resynchronized.
From http://www.espnstar.com
Liverpool Special: Shankly’s sayings
It is 50 years since Bill Shankly took over at Liverpool where he helped transform the club and laid the foundations for their subsequent European and domestic success.
The Scot won First Division titles, FA Cups and the UEFA Cup before leaving Anfield in 1974 when his work was continued by Bob Paisley.
Shankly was also known as a maverick and here Press Association Sport lists some of his most famous sayings:
“Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.”
“Pressure is working down the pit. Pressure is having no work at all. Pressure is trying to escape relegation on 50 shillings a week. Pressure is not the European Cup or the Championship or the Cup Final. That’s the reward.”
“If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I’d pull the curtains.”
“The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don’t know the game.”
“A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe that you are the best and then make sure that you are. In my time at Liverpool we always said we had the best two teams in Merseyside, Liverpool and Liverpool reserves.”
“Liverpool was made for me and I was made for Liverpool.”
“If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing.”
“It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for, and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against.” On the ‘This is Anfield’ plaque
“It was the most difficult thing in the world, when I went to tell the chairman. It was like walking to the electric chair. That’s the way it felt.” On leaving Liverpool.
“At a football club, there’s a holy trinity – the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques.”
DAG, regarding your original post and point #12.
isn’t this how Jose lined up his team against Arsenal 4 years ago? Sit back and let Arsenal have the ball because he knew they would do nothing with it? Over the last 4 years, Chelsea have played almost the same formula against Arsenal with the same end result. I think the difference was when Big Phil tried to get Chelsea to play that Arsenal managed to get two quick goals to come away with the win.
and regarding #1. Yup, the players certainly need a confident keeper. At times Almunia has seemed more nervous than Senderos used to be. If a goal keeper looks nervous then you can be sure that no opposing striker in the league will be afraid. And Arsenal’s defenders might be uncertain at times as well. Maybe they might still try to clear the ball even if they get a call from Almunia because they don’t trust him. In that case, there might be more own goals to come. Will Almunia ever be dropped? Will Vito be the answer? Why did we ever let things get to a point regarding the keeper issue? Questions that I will never know the answer to.
True about Jose. They would sit back and wait. Just wait for the right opportunity.
As fr GK – I don’t think there is anyone of our current crop that makes me confident. The polish kid is still too green and the other just have too many general flaws.
@ Eduardo.
Another problem is even if we switch to 422 we would still need to have Bendtner back to get the most out of Eduardo.
He’s best suited for the big man/little man attacking partnership upfront. To partner Vela or Arshavin up front in a 442 I think his impact would be quite similar to playing as the lone striker in a 433.
As for the midfield problem, IMHO we can solve it by clearing off Denilson and Diaby and bringing in Alou Diarra (Bordeaux).
28, 6ft 3in, very strong tackler, solid header yet has quite elegant passing on him.
Partner the guy with Song behind Fabregas. That combined with getting a new keeper would seal up our defense.
And the good thing about all this?? We pay for the new players by selling off our clutter.
The only problem? The severe attachment Wenger has to the clutter.
Haven’t seen much of Alou Diarra, but 100% would be ecstatic to bring in a 28 year old, who is 6’3″ and likes to tackle.
We would not miss Diaby or Denilson much, if they were replaced with more physical player(s).
Talking of Bordeaux, I’m impressed with the job Laurent Blanc has done. They’re keeping (a few) clean sheets, looking very challenging and playing attacking, fun to watch football.
Also as a sidenote, what is it with the Diarra’s of this world being DMs. I have yet to see a Diarra who plays a position other than DM
I agree with the sentiment we have a bit too many “luxury” players.
For example, in theory we have EIGHT forwards: RvP, Arshavin, Rosicky, Nasri, Vela, Eduardo, Bendtner, Walcott.
Rosicky duplicates Nasri, Vela, Arshavin. But he is injury prone and is contract is up. Cut him loose.
Eduardo: I like the guy. He is the only “poacher” in the team. BUT, he is made redundant in a 4-3-3. His best position is as the second striker in a 4-4-2. If we are not converting back to our old formation, we might as well just let him go to a team like Valencia or Sevilla in Spain where he will really flourish. I say we let him go.
Walcott: I bet there are 10 EPL teams willing to put serious cash (10 m plus) for “premium” England player. We should offload as a priority.
That would leave us with RvP, Arshavin, Nasri, Vela, Bendtner. If we then added a player like Carlon Cole into the mix. The new guy can rotate with Bendtner in the middle, while RvP moves back to the wings. That still leaves us with 6 players for 3 positions…and with little replication amongst our strikers.
Selling Rosicky, Eduardo and Walcott clears 3 small, injury prone players in one fell swoop while drastically de-clustering the team.
With the money we get from them we could afford to buy ONE robust striker.
Selling Rosicky, Eduardo and Walcott clears 3 small, injury prone players in one fell swoop while drastically de-clustering the team.
With the money we get from them we could afford to buy ONE robust striker.
Fred, again… I like Rosicky Eduardo and Walcott, but you are correct.
They are FINESSE players… small and injury prone. We have a team of those type. I would agree that we need a different model striker.
I’m as much a supporter as you are, so save your non-sense because you see this current team and manager as some wonderful thing to be cherished.
————————————-
Perhaps the Emirates supporters all shared the same attitude as you. That’s why nobody bothered to chant.
Why anyone would bother to sing for his team when they don’t even BELIEVE in them? Would u bother to sing “There’s only one Arsene Wenger” when you don’t even believe in him?
Andez. There were pockets of people that “tried” to sing and chant and stand… like they used to.
You are correct. They surely split up the old support groups from the North Bank, Clock End, etc… and in a massive stadium, a bunch of supporters spread out all over the 60,067 seats… isn’t going to make much noise. That’s why the away support, all in one area, is louder.
There are a LOT of people that still believe, still love the team… still love Wenger. But they also realize… “their Arsenal” are gone.
It’s big business!
You’ll get no argument from me Stag.
Just back from the match… in London.
I haven’t read all the posts pre-post match… it really doesn’t matter.
I just read the entry, and as usual, there are some folks watching a different team or game.
First of all… it was my first time to the Emirates after being at Highbury for 11 years straight. Wow. In the negative.
The Emirates is not Highbury. Its new, its fancy, its clean… its CORPORATE. It’s a nice stadium. Good sight lines, but you are not close to the pitch, which is what helped make Highbury… special.
Next… the support… the fans.
PATHETIC. There was no atmosphere at the biggest match of the season.
The Chelsea fans were louder than the whole Arsenal stadium… I’ll sum it up in a few sentences from my experience.
There were a group of about 25 or so guys… I’d say aged 30 to 40 years old if I had to guess. They were all sitting in the same section. They attempted to sing and chant for a good portion of the match. Early on, I overheard… “are they going to be standing up all match”?
!!!!!!!!!
For the most part, the Arsenal crowd is… the prawn sandwich eating crowd.
The best chants I heard… were that same group singing…
“we want our Highbury back”…
and the Chelsea supporters … “4 years and you won fuck all”.
Truer words never spoken.
So… to the even more sad part… the actual match and HARD facts.
Chelsea.
They are better than us all over the pitch, and in every way shape and form. If we played them for 5 hours yesterday, I still doubt we’d have ever scored.
They are BIGGER physically… Taller… Stronger… more experienced… and flat out better than Arsenal. They love playing us, because they believe we don’t have a chance of beating them. We might win 1 or 2 times in 10 against Chelsea with these teams. We are NOT even close.
They play FANTASTIC defense. It’s a team defense. They wait patiently… playing defense first, for the other team to make a mistake… and then they will pounce on your error. If they score first, its almost OVER at that point, if they score twice, YOUR DONE.
So, they let Arsenal play their passing and possession game for most of the first half, but never letting us get a legitimate scoring chance. Since Arsenal NEVER shoot the fecking ball… just pitty patty pass pass… what were the chances of us scoring?
Then when Chelsea get a chance, its usually TIC TAC TOE.
They have assassins. Quiet killers. Yes, Drogba didn’t do a lot to create havoc for most of the match, but how’d he do when he got the chance? Anelka can also score that type of goal… and there isn’t one player on Arsenal that can match up with him physically. Arsenal players were literally BOUNCING off him in physical match ups. A joke.
Unfortunately, the joke’s on us.
Wenger keeps spouting this shit about the “time for the young team to step up”… he’s said it before, and we always lose when he does.
They stand no chance against an intelligent, physically stronger, patient, defensive minded, extremely deep and talented Chelsea team.
United might have a chance, but we don’t… no way.
If you are waiting for Chelsea to falter… what is your hope based on?
When you play defense like they do, you aren’t going to let in goals often, let alone lose. You have to respect what they do.
With Drogba and Anelka up front… they are better than we are there.
Their midfield is deeper, more experienced, stronger… better.
Their back 4… its better, deeper, more experienced.
Keeper? Cech by a country mile.
So, yes… we will play beautiful football this season, like we always do… and we will win NOTHING. Again. We don’t have the horses.
Eduardo is NOT cutting it. Nice guy. Fantastic that he came back from that horrific injury, but he’s not good enough at the moment.
Denilson’s a decent little midfielder, but not for a team with hopes of winning silverware.
Almunia – and anyone else we have in net… are NOT good enough.
Wenger has built a team of finesse players, that lack strength and the experience necessary to win the league. We lack that depth in key spots. And that’s not changing. We’ve shifted from that old – charming – band box stadium… with tons of character… to a shiny new money maker filled with fans that sit on their hands and leave when down by 2 goals with 10 minutes plus stoppage time left… paying a fortune.
Well… I’d want Highbury, and the Arsenal-type teams that used to play THERE back as well… with players with heart, character and grit.
Ray Parlour – Nigel Winterburn – Tony Adams types… down for the cause, doing the UGLY stuff to win.
Right now, we have a team that doesn’t do ugly stuff. They do pretty. That’s Wenger’s Arsenal… young, pretty, finesse… just like the new stadium.
And please… I’m as much a supporter as you are, so save your non-sense because you see this current team and manager as some wonderful thing to be cherished. I love the club, and want us to win as much as the next guy. If we lose, I feel like shit… get frustrated… just like we all do. But to continue in a match with no PLAN B if things go astray… a season with no plan B… or a club’s direction with no alternate plan… is INSANE. It’s time to change the course Arsene.
Thanks for sharing your trip and experience stag. These are some of the most eloquent words you have written :) I mean that. Clear, concise and hammers the point home. This really deserved an entry of its own but glad you shared it.
Thanx Sach.
It’s always a pleasure to go to see the Arsenal play live. It usually is a great experience.
About the chanting…
There’s a group called Red Action that organizes chants/songs/card stunts, etc. at Arsenal matches. Their stated goal is something along the lines of “bringing to Arsenal and the EPL the type of vocal/visual support that was commonplace during the old First Division days.” But they all sit in the same end of the stadium and I hear no one else wants to participate.
From what I’ve heard about Emirates compared to Highbury is that the expanded capacity has just attracted wealthy corporate types who go b/c it’s sort of a status thing. You still have the faithful fans that used to go to Highbury, but most of the additional capacity is filled up by hangers-on that aren’t “real” fans.
But hell a lot of Londoners would consider most of us fake fans since we don’t even live in England and never go to matches.
Another reason I heard is those season ticket holders who were assigned to the same seats, same section year in year out during the Highbury era were being assigned to different seats/different section once Arsenal moved into Emirates.
So instead of surrounded by familiar faces, the folks they used to sing together every season, all a sudden they found themselves being surrounded by strangers. There go the rapport fans had built in years.
Big mistake from the club.
At Highbury, they used to have that die-hard North Bank crowd. The primary source of Arsenal’s vocal support coming from.
At Emirates, where’s our new North Bank? Hell, do we even have a name for the different stands these days?
As far as I could tell, there are no names for different stand areas… because its rounded, not 4 distinct sections.
Regular people can NOT afford to go to all the matches. It is too expensive. I have a few friends that have had season tickets for over 25 plus seasons. They have to share half of their tickets with other people in order to afford to go… selling some as well.
So, yes… different faces every match. Comraderie is gone. And people LEAVE the match down 2 goals with 10 plus minutes to go.
That did NOT happen at Highbury, at any match I remember being at…
I have heard of RedAction. They’ve been at matches … even at Highbury.
There is not much disrepect for fans that travel from abroad to see a match or matches.
I have always been treated by supporters with respect and admiration for traveling that far to watch the Arsenal. It IS a family … or was. Most people are geniunely interested in where you traveled from, why… how you became a supporter.
They understand that if you lived in London, you’d be at matches regularly.
I would imagine they think the folks in the corporate boxes who make up that ring around the middle of the stadium where you see the seats, not the people, are the “fake” fans.
The way I see it, the key men are Ivan and Stan.
Arsene is a stubborn person and won’t change (unless lightning strikes on his head). It is his stubbornness that won us titles. It is the same that has got us to this point.
The current board are absolutely fine with that. PHW, Fiszman, etc., are cool with winning the profit league (as Stag puts it) and consistently making it to the CL.
What do Ivan and Stan want? If we want to the move to the next level, some changes are in order. It is their call. If I were in either of their positions, I would definitely start thinking about it now.
Before people jump on me, I am NOT asking for Wenger to be sacked. But he may need to pushed into things he doesn’t like. So far the board has maintained a hands off approach. That may have to change. If he doesn’t like it, well, then Ivan may have to start thinking of other alternatives.
I think we need to sell Rosicky in Jan and bring in a top notch, physically sturdy playmaker.
________________________________
I echo that sentiment. The latest injury to Perse was the blow that cut the final thread of my belief that Arsene will be repaid for his longstanding faithfulness to his crocky bevvy of players. It’s his call on who goes, but some of them should be shipped out. Give them a cut and polish and put the word out that they are available.
Collectively they’ve screwed this season in addition to the last three. Rosicky, Perse, Eduardo, Walcott and Diaby. Four of them play in the front 3 for pete’s sake. We’re in the ridiculous situation where the only fully fit player in the front 3 squad of players is Arshavin. Perse and Bendtner are out. Eduardo, Rosicky and Nasri are all tentative choices able to play only on a limited basis. And Theo is a waste of space and money.
I do find it strange that no one at Arsenal is looking at this situation dispassionately. Even if Arsene is too close to the players to be cold about this. What is Gazidis doing? Does he cast an eye over the squad and the on-field return the 1st teamers have provided over the last 3 or 4 seasons? If he does, what does he see from that group? How many bad risks can you afford to carry? How can he parrott about the strength of the squad when they can’t even make it on to the pitch? ;-) What use are players who can’t play? They’re expensive clutter.
Andez, I know you’re a long term supporter like myself and you badly want the team to achieve sustained success. I wholly agree.
I also agree the nucleus of the side is very talented and the level of technical proficiency is the basis for the enchanting passing game.
But like you I think they need a bit extra. As easy on the eye as our football is, and we want that to continue, somehow Arsene needs to find the missing ingredients that will lace the side with the mental strenght that Chelsea exhibit, that Arsene talks about, but that the team fails to demonstrate all too often.
Both you and Maz express the same thing albeit in different ways. As good as our game is, it lacks the killer aspect that capitalises on our superiority. We can out pass and out-possess other teams, even teams the calibre of Chelsea and ManU, yet it’s as though our game has failed to mature to the next level. We struggle to add the dynamic of penetration and clinical finishing that would make our game both unique and complete.
My attempt to explain the missing ingredient is a mixture of a wrong balance of players and, sadly, a front three that simply aren’t good enough at this stage. That’s why I refer to Barca. I think if you overlaid Eto, Henry and Messi on our team we’d be superb. True, Almunia would still be an average GK and the defence would still be vulnerable at crosses, yet the team as a package would be pretty compelling and its limitations wouldn’t be terminal.
Andez, I agree with your points. We did compete very well with Chelsea for most of the 1st half. Therein lies our problem. All the possession with no lethal intent. So we allow a team like Chelsea or Sunderland to outwait us. Then in Chelsea’s case they spanked us – due to their quality. In Sunderlands case, our nervy defence is always likely to concede the longer we go without turning our possession into goals. Which makes Arsene’s constant reference to our mental strength ring hollow.
Indeed, I think we have acquired a disturbing pattern which looks to be entrenched in our teams ‘corporate memory’. The longer we dominate and don’t score the more likely it is that we will cave in.
I know I’m a stuck record, yet everything seems to revert to our inability to turn possession into goals. That’s a combination of non-penetration and inefficient finishing. Interesting to read an article on Tevez. Fergie wouldn’t pay top dollar for him (neither in fee nor in wages) – why? Because he didn’t believe he was lethal enough. Successful teams have lethal attacks. We don’t. I don’t believe spreading the goals thinly around the team compensates for lethal finishers – every successful team needs a number of clinical finishers.
On the GK. Almunia has lost more confidence and doesn’t look happy. Arsene treated him strangely earlier in the season – you don’t drop keepers you sell them. He looks really goalline-bound now and it means we’re even more open at crosses. He did make one good save albeit later in the game. Maybe we’ll see a new keeper, although Arsene just doesn’t buy top-drawer keepers so I’m not holding out.
I’m afraid I’m not as tolerant as you. I want to see Arsenal serious about winning or at least challenging, anything less is substandard.
The stats would say we do have a lethal attack though, and I’m pretty sure that with or without RVP we will still spank teams here and there and keep the goals for column healthy.
The problems for me is a mental one. We’re too nervous and don’t back ourselves against an organised side or as you said, we lose belief very quickly once we sense the opposition have our measure and know what we’re up to.
RVP played the lone role in the games at the back end of last season against Chelsea at home and in United game away, as well as this season, and I still saw the same lack of conviction and calmness in the final third. There really is a collective rigidness in the side and we lose our gumption once we see the goal posts.
What’s interesting as well is that when we’re low on confidence you can the patterns we practice in training and that in itself is a problem. We become a parody of ourselves in some ways. It’s almost as if the players revert to the “stage one: basic level” manual of Wengerball, which seems to involve excessive use of the full backs to provide width, when they improvise more and use their own interpretations of his philosophy when confidence is flowing and integrate them all together to become a much more dynamic force.
Kiwi, actually I wanna see Arsenal to dominate the league for years to come.
I believe they have the squad and the talent to achieve that.
but like u said, we must add some bites to our game.
I think we need to sell Rosicky in Jan and bring in a top notch, physically sturdy playmaker.
Rosicky is completely shot I’m afraid. He can’t run with the ball and when he does manage to he then hurriedly passes it off to the full back instead of having a shot at goal. Rosicky without the ability to get into the box isn’t in the same league as Hleb.
Him and Nasri are just the masters of deception at the moment and ballet versions of Fabregas. Neither of them have any intensity to their dribbling whatsoever and our team is inbalanced as a result as we have no one to really make opposition players commit and make space for others, most notably Fabregas himself. Nasri did a nice move in the first half but after that it was back to the tedious passing out to the full backs.
Woah, woah, woah….hold ur horses there!
I thought you were one of the Rocky fans??? When did u convert??
Werent you one of those who put our early season form down to his movement and all? Or am I missing something. :-D
Anyway, I do agree in general, we have too many superflous players. And since Rockys contract is up, there is no point having him, Vela and Nasri on the roster together. One of them has to go.
Rosicky’s injuries look like they’ve blunted his edge. Without that edge, he simply doesn’t justify a place.
We need dribblers to compliment Fabs, not just slightly more mobile versions of him, which is what Rosicky has essentially become.
As for the Carling Cup, I’d perfer AW sticks to our B side.
Let’s face it, that’s what made this competition so interesting for the Gunners to follow.
At least that’s one main attraction for me personally to follow our progress in this competition. An opportunity to see the youngsters we don’t normally get to watch in a regular basis.
Ozi –
I enjoy watching our reserves play, but not when our confidence is trending down.
The attacking options from City will outweigh what we faced with Pool – WHICH WAS A HOME MATCH.
I see Senderos / Sylvestre as bald tires running over construction debris. A blow out at any moment. Eboue’s defensive reputation is a carry over from 2 years ago.
I would like to see more of Eastmond. He shows more prospect at DM than “Denyilson”.
I see what you are saying about the confidence thing. But honestly, I don’t think our first team is THAT much more likely to win at city. This is partly because our confidence is shot, there will be more pressure on the first team than the reserves and lastly I expect City to be more up for it against our main team (especially after the media fiasco after our league game). Obviously our strongest 11 is more likely to win, but with these factors, I think our reserves aren’t that much worse off.
There’s also other things to take into account:
– The reserves have earned it. They have performed so far and Wenger keeps the faith as we all know.
– IF we lose, a defeat against our first 11 will be far more psychologically damaging than against the reserves.
– All in all, Wenger played a B squad against Chelsea in the finals a few years back, an away game at city is hardly going to make him change his ways.
lol at the analogy about the flat tyres.
As for Eboue, he has played in place for Sagna a few times this season and been quite decent.
And City (full squad) away is def going to be tougher than Pool (half squad) at home. I’m looking forward to it all in all.
100% agree with u on this one OziKenyan.
If we play Eastmond at dm, City win the match at a canter. He did okay in the liverpool tie but you could tell even from that game that he would be out of his depth at somewhere like Eastlands.
Anyway, I just wanna see Merida and work out whether he’s ready or not. The rest of the youngsters I can take or leave really.
Merida is out – suspended for getting carded in a reserve match v Aston Villa.
Now there are a few questions we probably need to ask ourselves (or rather Wenger and Arsenal need to ask themselves):
(1) Why we kept conceding quick successive goals?
I mean, falling behind one goal is not really a shock, even the strongest side in the world would find themselves in this situation from time to time.
But this season, how many times we had conceded TWO goals in a short space of time? It felt like once we conceded a goal, the team all a sudden fell apart. And let in another one in no time.
United defeat, City defeat, West Ham draw, Standard firt leg, Chelsea defeat. It all happened in a similiar fashion.
We did well in the STandard first leg, and came back with a win. But the truth is – if you keep conceding two goals in quick succession, you are making your life more difficult than it should be.
so WHY? Is it because of nerve? I don’t think inexperience can no longer be an excuse. This squad, despite their young age, have more big games/Europe experience than many veterans in the Premiership.
But experience will only count when you LEARNED THE LESSON.
(2) The main striker role
A point I made before. Without a holding up player up front, life is bounded to be difficult for our attack.
Fabregas has been the one affected most since van Persie’s injury. Cos he’s a midfielder. When we are without possessions, he needs to drop back and help out the defense. In order to for him to come forward to support the main striker, you need the main striker to be able to keep the ball in order to BUY him TIME.
So question now is – how we are going to sort out this main striker problem?
Obviously Bendtner is the best alternative. He’s not comfortable with his hold up play neither. But at least he got the height and the presence. Tough luck for us he’s injury the same time as van Persie.
(3) Killer Instinct
Frankly, I don’t think we started out poorly against Chelsea. We passes the ball well, and won a lot of 50/50 ball. Chelsea hardly created any chance.
Yet problem is – with their few chances created, they always looked dangerous. While we were just passing around lacking any cutting edge. Be it creating goalscoring chances, or finishing.
(4) The goalkeeper
It starts to hit me that he’s only there for decoration. Do we even need a goalkeeper when he’s job is just to pick the ball up from the net?
It seems like unless a shot being hit straight to him, he’s unlikely to save anything. Maybe all Chelsea’s goals were unstoppable. But then again, what the wage we paid a goalkeeper for? Wasn’t it supposed to ask the keeper to make some match-winning saves?
If not, why don’t we just put Gunnersaur in goal? At least he got the height and may deal with the high ball better.
Anyway, there are still plenty to play for. If we can’t win the league, let’s finishing 2nd and save us from having to play the qualifying round once again next season.
And we still have 3 Cups to play for.
To me, a defeat is never a disaster. A disaster is when you fail to pick yourself up after a setback. So show us some pride you Gunners.
Almunia = passenger
Points 2 & 3
At the beginning of this season, we were scoring goals right & left from everyone but our strikers. RvP had a very slow start – and Arsene attributed it to learning to play this new role.
Our 1st 40 minutes with Chelski – I thought our attack was dominating, but the final chemistry was lacking.
Nasri and Eduardo have played very little this season – so cohesion is missing. Denilson really didn’t contribute anything = another passenger: at least Diaby is bold to go forward and create concern from the back four (not saying Diaby is the answer).
Rosicky should have started over Denilson in mid-field or switch with Nasri on the wing. Anyway, one player short in the attacking options is more than sufficient reason to short
circuit our fluid play options. 4 v 4 (arsh – eduardo – nasri – cesc vs. back 4 of chelski)
for our small warriors to be successful we need to create the 2v1, 3v2, 4v3, 5v4 advantages
in the attacking third – the man advantage is not coming from our outside backs……
so it must come from Song or the other midfielder.
Point 1 – also puzzled by the lack of defensive concentration.
It’s interesting talking about holding the ball up. I thought we did that okay on Sunday. Eduardo even won quite alot of headers in the first half against Terry, the sort RVP would never go for.
Our problem was failing to penetrate the chelsea backline when they sat deep, and managing to mess up every single final pass whenever we did breach their defensive structure, which usually occured when we countered them.
We have to lose the inferiority complex. It’s quite obvious the players have zero belief when you look at the decision-making in the final third.
Wenger just cannot install a winning mentality in the team, despite all the bold declarations.
I will agree with ur last sentence.
While disagree with the hold up play. A good hold up player not only buys time, but also suck the defenders’ attention and free up space for teammates.
As for the winning mentality, I’d have to agree.
As one point I made previously, despite some shortcomings, this side is one of the most talented Arsenal sides I ever seen. They are so technically gifted. And if they fail to win anything, it would only come down to one thing – that MENTALLY they are made of glasses. And they will go down to one of the most “underachieving” sides in Arsenal history.
As for Wenger’s bold declarations, you would have done the same if you were the manager, so would I. You gotta inject some soft of belief in the team. But whether it will work or not it’d still gotta be down to individual’s mental toughness.
Whilst I agree they are talented, I haven’t actually seen the evidence on the pitch yet to suggest they can transform that potential onto the pitch.
Think of our away games this season. Has there been one that was comparable to that first half against Villa in 2007/08 in terms of possession and movement? I don’t think there has.
Everton was a great result but we were solid and clinical more than anything in that match. Fulham, West Ham, Sunderland, Wolves were all matches where we ground out the result. Even at Old Trafford I didn’t think we were that great and think we played better football in the 2-0 defeat in 06/07.
So while on paper the likes of Nasri, Fabregas, Rosicky should play some nice stuff, it isn’t really happening yet. Primarily because all three are a bit too similar at this stage in their careers and they haven’t played together enough.
I really don’t understand why myself.
Perhaps Wenger has lost his way focusing too much on buying technically gifted players.
That was one guy in that West Ham match impressed me a great deal. That West Ham subs I don’t remember his name.
When he came on, he was like on drug, fully fire up, you would have thought they were only 1 goal down.
They were 2 goals down at that time, and still, he didn’t care. His sheer energy simply singlehandly transformed the game for them. And lift his teammates as well.
I wish we had someone like him. Even if he’s not good enough to be a starter, it won’t harm to have a player like him on the bench.
#32 Diamanti
Diamanti’s best game this season – the match against Arsenal.
Other than that he has been non-existant.
I only watched one West Ham game this season, that was when we played against them.
I don’t mean to buy Diamanti himself. My point is I wish we had a player like that, fully charged and motivated, who won’t give up until the end.
Even if he’s technically inferior, I would take that for the attitude and character.
We don’t get much sense from our beloved leader so it’s nice to get some from an alternate source. A reality check from Drogba (the striker who doesn’t do much ;-) )…….
1. Strength…….”But I think we were strong. We were stronger than them. That’s the only thing I can say, we were stronger than them on Sunday.”
2. Execution……”Every time we had the chance to score we did it. We took our chances and I think physically and mentally we defended well. We were really strong.”
3. Focus……….”I don’t know about Arsenal. But our strength is that we are able to switch it on when it matters. Even against Manchester (when Chelsea won 1-0 earlier this month) even though the game was really difficult we won it. We know how to go through difficult periods, difficult times. When the game is hard. That’s why we know that when you get a chance it’s important to score.”
Kiwi –
when things fall your way – you look like a coaching genius.
Unfortunately, when things go wrong for Chelsea, there is the trickle down effect: owner > manager > player > player.
We need to focus on fixing or correcting our house.
not sure I follow?
Yep, we won’t get sense from Wenger now. We will have to wait till after the season for him to start cutting the crap and give us the real version of events, before he goes away to Austria, breathes in the mountain air, and gets delusional again right in time for season 20010/11 ;)
I think the comparisons with Barcelona are appropriate. Not that we have reached their mature game, but I think they are as close an example of what Wenger wants this side to be as you will get.
For me the biggest difference between Barca and Arsenal is the front 3. With Ibrahimovic, Messi and Henry you actually have a sharp edge. We don’t. If you’re not set up defensively (which neither Barca nor Arsenal are) you have to have an ominous offensive threat. Indeed, your offensive threat is your first line of defence. You cover your defensive limitations by outscoring the opposition.
And offensive threat does not mean possession. It means a frightening ability to carve the opposition open and spank them. I’m talking Eto/ Henry/Messi or Henry/Bergkamp/Pires not Eduardo/Arshavin/++ (++ equals whoever is not being rested to avoid the recurrence of an injury).
I’m sorry but with Perse out the attacks we will be putting out will be sad. Lightweight, indirect, goal-less, disenchanting. We’ll be praying for a miracle, for Arshavin to carry a ridiculous burden. As we have seen, he won’t. He’s licking the wounds of his personal ambitions. Which is yet another example of how pathetically self absorbed these extravagantly rewarded footballers are, and why as resources they should be flicked on when they become unproductive.
I’m not much for predictions, yet I can certainly see ManC putting our B-team out of the CC.
If you’re going to talk differences between Barcelona and Arsenal you can’t leave out Iniesta. He is the most under-appreciated, under-rated footballer in the world in my opinion. He is spectacular.
I’m not sure I want a first team going to Man City. I enjoy watching our reserves play. I watch it with an attitude that allows me to enjoy the football and the goals whilst not turning into a mental wreck if we lose. I think it is an attitude that would greatly benefit the first team were every fan to adapt it (impossible of course because of our emotional investment in the team).
Anyway, I think Eddie should start up front. He needs to get used to the role and this would be a good competitive but lower pressure game to get some more experience.
Vela should start. He needs to start getting opportunities to break into the first team and has always done well when starting with Eddie (and he love CC games).
Theo on the right- I think he is going to start. Not sure what to make of him and still requires developing. He could learn a thing or two from how Lennon has progressed over the last 2 years.
Traore- keep giving him games, needs the confidence and the minutes to fill in while Gibbs and Clichy are out
Eastmond- We don’t have any natural cover for Song and he is an option. I would rather a proper defensive player cover for song rather than Denilson trying to adjust and Eastmond did well against Pool. Good tackle, awesome work-rate and not shy of getting stuck in. One game isn’t enough for a first-team spot but I think he has earned a start in this line-up and a few more games would give us a better indication about his capabilities.
Eboue- Pacy and would be able to hopefully deal with Bellamy or Robinho or whoever they start out wide left. Also has always looked good at RB.
Fabianski- Knocking on the first team and I would not be surprised if a good run from him sees Almunia pick up another chest infection.
Fabianski
Eboue- Senderos – Silvestre- Traore
Eastmond
Ramsey Rosicky
Walcott Vela
Eduardo
Judging by City’s performances of late, I think theres more than enough in this side to take them if they play well.
Looking at the end of the last thread, I like Fred’s suggestion of using 2 DM’s. I’ve liked and believed in Song since that performance in the Carling cup against Blackburn a few years back where he led the team from the centre of defence while we were down to 10 men. I wasn’t overly fussed if we didn’t get a DM last summer because Wenger hates signing more than about 2 players and I would have much rather seen a CB and GK (got half I guess..)
So far all the discussion about our DM position has always centred on the fact that we use just one DM. I think it is a result of Arsene’s attacking philosophy that not many are even considering the use of 2 holding midfielders but I believe using 2 DM’s would work well for us. We are frequently compared to Barcelona (as a blueprint more than anything) and even though they have 2 ‘mobile’ mids in their 3, much the same way as we have so far this season, they are able to pull it off as Xavi+Iniesta is much better than Cesc+ Diaby/Denilson/Ramsey. Also the support that the Barca mids have in the form of Messi, Ibrahimovic and Henry is vastly superior to what we have.
The premier league is also much more physical than the Spanish league. Arsenal could use another big man in defending set pieces and tackling the opposition in open play. It would free up Cesc a bit more and I don’t think that the perceived subtraction in number of attacking player from 5 to 4 will have that big an impact on how many goals we score. It’s not as though our holding mid stays back all game anyway (sidenote- was very impressed with Song’s attacking against Sunderland. He just needs to develop a long-shot and with progression in other aspects of his game I see him becoming one of the best at his postion in Europe).
Good article but I must comment on the mention of horse-face. I will puke if he ever pulls on our red and white. I’d rather gamble on the next 14 year old we pick up from Czechoslovakia than see him lead our line.
Agreed. Fuck him.
Mate, nothing wrong with staying optimistic. It is sport after all, and we follow it for the joy. Everyone has a slightly different slant, I’m happy as long as I see progress and feel we’re in with a shot. I have no right to dictate tactics or personnel to Arsene who sees all this stuff on a daily basis. Yet, when things are veering off course yet again I think it reasonable to state the obvious.
Last season and the season before I expressed that Arsene’s current management strategy is high risk. Assuming the goal is EPL success, for us to achieve that ambition he is relying on alot going in our favour. I won’t regurgitate the points I’ve made before. I just think that his strategy is unnecessarily extreme. Therefore when it fails – this time the injury to Perse is the likely tipping point – the blame rests with Arsene alone. He just doesn’t give the squad a fair crack. There isn’t enough in the armoury to mount a sustained challenge unless everything comes up roses – and it won’t – the EPL is an attritional competition that needs a strong hand from the start.
Arsene will wax on in a slightly delusional manner until we’re mathmatically gone. If that works for you – ok. We’re not gone definitively, if we get back on the horse and get a run going we could re-enter the race assuming Chelsea drop some points. Yet that seems a long-shot with Perse out and the goals drying up. I do find it interesting
If you cast your mind back to last season (if you can ;-) ) you will recall that the pressure and disappointment was so great that everyone felt Arsene had to have a major rethink. Well despite a few carefully phrased words that alluded to change he basically stuck to his script. Once again he said to everyone “I’ll do it my way”. That meant there was a net reduction in experience in the off-season with Ade & Toure leaving and Verme coming in. I’m not debating the merits of any of those changes, more-so the bigger picture that we actually lost experience and made ourselves even more exposed to the limitations of our endemic injury cases and callowness.
I’ve trumpeted Song’s emerging. Yet you can’t build a title winning squad on a diet of one youngish player emerging every two seasons. You’ll never get there.
I’ll finish by reiterating we’re not totally out of it – but I reckon one more defeat in the next few games will put us away. And frankly to be left with the sense that we are left likely competing for a CL place before December even starts is failure. If it’s not seen that way by the Arsenal management – it’s time for a new infusion of ambition.
Oh, don’t get me wrong – I will never get on anyone who casts a critical eye on the team. And rightly so they deserve it.
But I just thought it would be right to look at it from the other side too.
True point on the winning squad. I wouldn’t mind a couple more in the age bracket between Fab and Arsha.
The CC match at ManCity has frightening repercussions.
I can’t see Arsenal fielding the rug rats and expect anything but disappointment and compounding morale issues.
Um. Have you seen City play? They have lost leads to way less formidable teams than our reserves.
Not saying it will be easy but even as an eternal optimist – I think they have better chances than you would give them.
I also think that since next week’s CL match is a wash – we can put Vela and Dudu out to get some leg work.
Also as best I can tell Wilshere will be available for the match.
Yes, I’ve watched City play: they have chemistry problems and more: but when they play Arsenal, then they are highly motivated.
Wilshere who?
Life and sports parallel each other.
The expected rarely happens, while the unexpected is norm.
We’ve played 1/3 of the epl contests. There is no way to foresee how any club will handle the balance of matches. Now is no time to throw in the towel.
We have no control except within Arsenal. If our manager is convinced he has the talent, then DAG we can toss away the rose tinted glasses!
We’ve played 20 + matches, and at this juncture any manager can identify weaknesses and if progress is being made from last season.
I see progress, but its fragile. Arsenal foundation: Arshavin, Cesc, Nasri, Song, Gallas, Vermaelen, Eduardo, RvP, & Rosicky MUST be available for every match.
Arsene must address these issues:
– goal keeper
– lack of depth at CB (you cannot expect Djourou to return in march? april? – at all this year) and I’m not convinced he is the strength (muscle) needed at this position.
– lack of depth at DM – Song type;
– impotent to score from set pieces
If you feel Bendtner, Vela, and Theo are viable future goal scorers, then its ridiculous to buy anyone in January – where will these three youngsters find the playing time to evolve?
On the last post, Fred is right abt Reality: there will be matches where you struggle to score. Our defense must be solid.
I do not know how it stands now but a couple of weeks ago Arsenal had more goals from set pieces than any other team in the league. This while not getting many penalty calls go our way. It is just that with all our open play goals the proportion is not that high (as it is with bolton and villa- both over 75% if i remember correctly), hence a perception of our set piece being weak (attacking wise).
What is a lot more disturbing is that we were also the team that have conceded more goals from set-pieces than any other. And with 2 more goals conceded since I’m sadly sure that we still top that particular table. Oh imagine how fixing that one aspect would help. I wonder how many more points we would have if you scrapped all the oppositions set piece goals- simplistic I know, but would give some indication to how much we are suffering as a result of this poor defending from set-pieces.