Young Guns At Dawn: Arsenal v Manchester City Match Preview(Carling Cup)
- Are You Ready To Rumble!!!!
Rivalries will be renewed on Wednesday when Arsene Wenger takes his young guns up to the Eastlands for a Carling Cup tie against Mark Hughes first team. The return to City of Manchester Stadium is the first since the league match that saw the citizens go on and win 4-2.
That match was not without its controversy, the stamp on Robin Van Persie by Emmanuel Adebayor, his subsequent score and run to taunt the Arsenal away fans and his departure for 3 games.
The Carling Cup is high on the powder blues pecking order and they will roll out a full compliment of first teamers when the young guns come into town. Sparky has already committed to starting both former Arsenal men in his squad that is fully fit and will also feature the likes of Robinho, Vincent Kompany and Micah Richards who have all come off of recent injuries. The Eastlands outfit figure if they can win the Carling Cup that will give them enough to launch into a run for the League and a Champion’s League spot.
However, it is more important for Mark Hughes as he has come under pressure of late due to his squad’s lack of form. Since the beginning of October, the Citizens have won only once a 5-1 drubbing of Scunthorpe in the last round of the Carling Cup. Other than that they have lost Manchester United and drawn against, they have drawn against Villa, Wigan, Fulham, Birmingham, Burnley, Liverpool and Hull. In at least 4 of the draws City had a lead going into the last 10 minutes of the match only to watch their opponents draw level. Oh hell I’ll say pretty much in ALL of the matches they were completely outplayed.
The £40 million additions of Kolo Toure and Joleon Lescott has not gone as planned. Kolo still does not look like the player he was pre-AFCON and Lescott is ineffective for club and country. Shay Givens could very well be the best goalie in the league but unfortunately if your defence isn’t defending you will likely let in goals.
Adebayor who was rocket hot when the season started has only netted once since his suspension – a free header against Liverpool that Pepe Reina should’ve had on the bounce. Carlos Tevez isn’t as prolific as he was made out to be. Yes he is great running up and down the pitch with verve but he is not finding the net.
So what’s that all mean, this may very well be the most important match of the Citizen’s season. A loss to the Young Guns and their downward spiral will almost be complete going into the Sunday match against Chelsea. A win is a must for Sparky’s sake and his team.
For the Gunners as we all know not everything has been bright. Losses to Sunderland and Chelsea have placed a gray cloud over Ashbourton Grove. Arsene Wenger in a very un-Wenger like way has had to come out and publically declare that Arsenal will be active in the transfer market due to the injury to Robin Van Persie.
Many Gooners and pundits still do not understand why Arsene does not place more emphasis on this cup and start more senior players. Simply put Arsene still has his eyes on bigger prizes. The team is still in the running for the FA Cup and the Champion’s League. The Premier League title is a question mark given Sunday’s result. Wenger will not change his policy of whelping his youngsters in the Carling Cup.
This is an opportunity for players to show Le Boss they deserve a shot at the first team. Hey, given the way some of the first teamers are playing – a little competition won’t hurt.
So far the average age of the starters is 19 but that tilts higher with Senderos and the ancient Silvestre working in the back. Wilshere, Watt, Vela, and Ramsey along with Lukasz Fabianksi should feature prominently. Fran Merida will not be in this match as he is suspended for obtaining a red card in a reserve match against Aston Villa.
For me I am looking most forward to seeing Ramsey and Watt get loads of time against first team opposition. Ramsey is everything Wenger thought he was going to be when he signed the young Welshman. His display against Scotland and subsequent displays on the EPL field are showing the promise of his future. I want to see what Watt can do becuase from what I am reading the kid could really have the stuff to be a top notch player in the mold of Henry. I want to see that and this match is the perfect opportunity especially against the defense they will be playing against. (Richards should not inspire any confidence in any manager).
A win for the youngsters and the sting of the weekend is lessened. A loss and is it really a shame? Probably not in the large scheme of things. Arsene is clearly focused on Saturday’s matchup against Stoke because a loss there would be even more devastating for the team and would likely kill them in the league and put them officially in the struggle for a CL spot with Spurs, Pool and City.
But folks I would like to take you back 5 years ago. 2004. The same setting. Kevin Keegan’s Manchester City are out with a full complement of healthy first teamers and Arsene Wenger rolls out a team of youngsters:
Almunia; Hoyte, Senderos, Cygan, Larsson; Pennant (Djourou), Flamini, Fabregas, Smith (Owusu-Abeyie); Lupoli (Karbassiyoon), Van Persie
The score that day? 2-1 to the Arsenal.
As a matter of fact an interesting tidbit – Arsenal are 5-0 in all Carling Cup matches against City.
How I See It Playing Out:
Honestly, I can see either scenario happening, City win, Arsenal win. City have the first team and experience but are in such a rut I am not sure they can get out of it even in a Carling Cup match. Arsenal have in my opinion the talent but lack the experience. I am not sure talent can be the only thing they rely on. I said this in the other Carling Cup matches I watched in that I think our youngsters are “harder” than our first team. Maybe its the fact that there are more English players on the that team. But they tackle harder and they do not shy away from mixing it up. Plus you have to like the attitude of Ramsey when he basically said Liverpool didn’t deserve to be on the field with us. They backed up that brashness and frankly that is an intangible that can bring an added dimension to their play. I just don’t know though how this shapes out. I am going to say that this match takes typical form and City get a 2-1 lead and let in equalizer late in regulation. It stays a draw in extra time and goes to PKs – then its a duck shoot.
Players to Watch:
Arsenal: Aaron Ramsey. He is already showing why he was sought after by both Wenger and Sir Alex Ferguson. He already is annointed as the heir apparent to Cesc Fabregas. He was a one man wrecking crew against Scotland and for his young age he has an absolute great feel for the game.
Manchester City: Emmanuel Adebayor. He went on a rampage in his last time against Arsenal. It resulted in a 3 game ban. Don’t expect to see the same antics. As a matter of fact I wouldn’t be suprised if he isn’t a little subdued so as to not attract any attention – because you know the refs will be watching. He hasn’t been in good form of late and a lot of Gunners fans are saying we told you. Let’s hope he doesn’t tell us.
Starting XI: (Note: Your Guess is As Good As Mine)
It could look something like this.
Injuries:
Arsenal: Van Persie, Bendtner, Gibbs, Clichy, Djourou, Diaby
Manchester City: ?????
Final Score:
Arsenal 2
City 2
Match to be decided on PKs
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YG is a pretty good site and his info is usually credible.
http://youngguns.wordpress.com/2009/12/04/arsenal-gazidis-agrees-zezinho-deal-video/
5M GBP for another 17 year old !!!
FFS – what did Theo do to get hurt? Trip in the freakin tub? Its not like he played yesterday.
He has been injured more than he has played over the last two years. Look no denying the talent but the kid is not delivering. Send him to like Birmingham or some place like that. I’m tiring of him already.
And while he is there, he can give Martin Taylor a nice solid kick in the nuts.
If Walcott was at Birmingham, he would never make it out of the reserve team. He would be injured all the time. Wait a minute, he already is!!
Kinda feel sorry for Theo; seems like a good kid with devotion to play for Arsenal.
This past summer, he had his head turned with National Team duties and it back fired. Can’t blame the kid for wanting to play against different competition!
“Look no denying the talent…”
What talent???
He maybe the only player on our 1st team squad, that has not played two 90 minute matches.
From what I’ve seen, he does not have the short passing or 1 v 1 skills to be a successful attacker or midfielder with our club.
I could see him as a RB (or LB option), and at this position, his pace down the flank, ability to get to the by-line, and crossing accuracy certainly would benefit our attack. At this position, he might be less exposed to constant hard tackles.
Of course, Theo has his mind made up that he is a goal scorer and the position change would be a hard pill to swallow.
I have said it several times, we NEED to get rid of a LOT of the “filler” material we have in the squad. Players who BLOAT the squad size but dont hardly make a meaningful contribution to anything.
I have given reasons why I think Rosicky, Eduardo, Walcott, Diaby, Almunia, Silvestre, Senderos and Denilson should be cut loose.
The goalkeeper position is a great example of what the current Arsenal is.
FOUR keepers struggling for ONE spot…yet NONE of them good enough.
When you clear out all the junk then things become much, much clearer. It is obvious Wenger needs clarity ASAP!
“I have given reasons why I think Rosicky, Eduardo, Walcott, Diaby, Almunia, Silvestre, Senderos and Denilson should be cut loose.”
Fred, absolutely no disrespect intended here, but if you get rid of this list of players who would you move into their spots? In other words, do you have any positive thoughts about any of the youngsters? Or are you thinking about obvious buys that we might make?
In truth, I’m not that far away from being in pretty total agreement with you (and didn’t you leave a couple of others out?). I keep hoping players that AW has backed will come good, but I wonder. And of course, some of his backing seems misplaced, based on my own observations. But I figure it’s easy for me, watching from afar and only having the televised matches to go on. I feel worse for the more traditional and hard-core fans (i.e., yesterday’s good traveling support) who are being priced out at the home stadium or are being asked to enjoy the domestic cups not as real competitive pursuits but as exhibitions of our vaunted “future.”
We currently have EIGHT players, nine if you count Wilshere fighting for THREE striker positions.
That is the definition of BLOATED. Dont you agree?
Yet the majority of them are small, weak and injury prone. Removing Eduardo, Rosicky, Walcott immediately removes three that have persistent injuries and who are generally weak.
Selling them off and buying ONE big, strong striker would leave us with SIX strikers. (seven if you add Wilshere).
We have a lot of weak, small guys when all we need is one “strong” guy.
QUALITY OVER QUANTITY.
Take GK for example. Wont it be better to have ONE solid keeper and Mannone as backup … than to have FOUR mediocre, clown keepers like we currently do?
Time Out!
Fred, you have a good eye for this game and most of your posts pretty well hit the target.
HTS is right, but fails to really address the ramifications:
1) no one can guarantee that players purchased will produce or build chemistry: examples: Bentley, Diarra, Sylvestre
2) With the wholesale dumping of this group, you must factor in, what would happen to morale? The big clubs in Europe, seeing the turmoil, would have a feast calling the agents of: Cesc, Nasri, Arshavin, Song, & Arshavin.
Now your earlier points about team needs: GK, depth for CB, DM, CF (dominating) make sense and are more realistic.
3) How could the club attract any decent players with this turnover?
Yes some in your list are question marks? We can have a better team, just don’t expect a perfect team.
How would losing weak, mediocre players like Denilson, Almunia, Diaby affect us getting new players. Remember we have EIGHT strikers on our roster. If you add Wilshere that is NINE. Yet we cant buy a goal. Too much quantity, not enough ENDURING, RESILIENT QUALITY.
I would rather we sold THREE and bought ONE top class, than to continue to fool around. I would rather we sold Diaby and Denilson and bought ONE solid CM than continue to fool around. I would rather we sold two of our keepers and got in ONE solid one.
Remember, we have a very, very BLOATED squad. Larger than that of Chelsea and Man U. Yet our “depth” is an illusion … very, very deceiving, not resilient and sometimes just completely lacking the quality.
In response to your points….
1) Quality players (and I dont mean “name” players), almost ALWAYS integrate well. Sagna, Arshavin, Verm, same with buys in other teams.
I dont completely buy the whole chemistry thing anyway. Chemistry only matters when you have a top quality, hard-nosed squad of winners and every other thing is right. Then you worry about chemistry.
2) Even with the sale of those guys we will still have a LARGE squad. Plus the aim of clearing those folks is to make way for ONE big, solid striker, ONE solid CM, ONE backup CB and ONE solid keeper.
We kick out eight cluttering players and bring in four solid ones. Even with the loss of four we are still one of the largest squads in the league.
3) The ONLY players at Arsenal that can attract anybody are Fabregas and Arshavin. No player in Europe is attracted by any other player on our roster.
Fred, you are asking for a complete overhaul. Do you think that is even remotely possible under Arsene?
Not going to happen but what should happen.
This sort of surgical removal of excess flab is the only thing that will make us a stream-lined compact outfit and squad.
What we know what will happen is that Wenger will meander along making one change here and there, over the course of several years. By which time we are decade without silverware or looking even remotely capable of lifting some of importance.
I gave my examples and you offered yours and I agree with you that Arsene could find upgrades; except our manager looks at running Arsenal different than Chelski, Pool, & City!
“Chemistry only matters when you have a top quality, hard-nosed squad of winners and every other thing is right.”
I would not call the Fulham roster top quality, yet against us, these average quality players moved the ball through us, around us, and over us with ease! Their understanding of teammate support allowed them success to fluidly attack.
Chemistry is everything in this sport AND MORE CRITICAL FOR ARSENAL STYLE OF PLAY vs. teams that play the low percentage long ball.
Since you have an eye for skill and IQ qualities, you must realize that when you are in the attacking third, time & space are MOMENTARY and LIMITED. To play 2v1, 2v2, or 2v3 in the penalty area, the timing of the understanding between teammates IMPACTS the result.
If your only talking about finding a Carlton Cole type & sending him long balls, then that is a different tactic than that deployed with RvP at the top. Because a Cole type does not have the linking and passing skills as RvP & Bendtner.
For our start this season, the three forwards were: Arshavin, RvP, and Bendtner. Our midfield was Song, Diaby, & Cesc. Injured have been Nasri, Theo, Vela, Denilson, or only seeing limited time (last minutes of a match) Eduardo & Rosicky.
Now with Bendtner & RvP out of the line up our chemistry must adapt to new personnel. This only comes with time.
Your statement about Arshavin and Cesc being the only targets of interest to European clubs is not a statement of fact, just opinion.
@arsesession
1) no one can guarantee that players purchased will produce or build chemistry: examples: Bentley, Diarra, Sylvestre
Silvestre doesn’t belong on that list.
Moreover, what happened to the ‘belief’ in the all-knowing Wenger’s ability to evaluate talent? How will we ever sign anyone, with that thinki…oh. Oh, no.
Vibe – I hesitated before listing Sylvestre, but saw him as a player who has not produced for Arsenal, while the other two I viewed as a chemistry -character issue.
Arsene is not perfect and certainly not all-knowing.
There are different approaches to managing a big club. Hughes (City) and Jose (at Chelsea) are just 2 examples that preferred to build their team through purchasing experienced players and had the purse strings.
I see Arsene as OLD SCHOOL coaching/managing. A manager whose vision for Arsenal’s long term success saw the importance of the youth academy. Yes, there is a big investment for the club, but its the right approach as every week we read about other managers or owners WANTING to emulate the Arsenal model.
From my perspective, for Arsene, there is far more personal gratification in developing talent, than the trend now in professional sports, like the Yankee’s, and buying your success.
Arsenal needs to find a compromise between Fred’s approach and Arsene’s policy of the past 2 years.
Guess what folks? Walcott is injured again. He has a “short term” hamstring injury. Make of that what you will.
He could very well be out for the year knowing Arsenal… that’s what I’ll make out of it until I see something definitive that says otherwise.
Hello all. Greetings from a commuter train to NYC. Stag the I read the more I find myself agreeing with you.
I look at it this way it was the CC not the FAC, CL or EPL. FFS we knew what the ultimate result would be. I read that AW feels the youngsters may have felt a little overwhelmed as City were clearly holding some leftover animosity from the Sept clash.
As for AW not shaking Sparky’s hand. It’s not the first nor will it be the last time. AW is not like by a majority of the EPL managers. He does not participate in the old boys club and does not participate I’m the tradition sharing a glass of wine post match. As much as we rightly rip AW I feel this is another attempt to pile on him. And for FFS it was Mark Hughes a right C**t
Commuter train? Are you the new commish? If so, how do you plan on getting Cuauhtemoc Blanco to lose weight and be able to run more than 3 steps in a row (so he and Carlos Vela can lead Mexico to World Cup Glory?–Or maybe he can come on loan in January, a la Beckham to Milan…) Bottom line, do you have a new job? And how will it affect your important work here?
Help….I’m losing the plot….
Disappointed, not with the result, but that we couldn’t even get a sniff until injury time. Everybody, with perhaps the exceptions of Fabianski, Vela, Eboue and, of course, Silvestre (who played out of his-weird looking-head) in the first half, looked pretty bad.
I’m not sure what this experience does for the younger players (shows them they need to work much harder, or go out on loan or get transferred so they can play with mature players on a real team?) Depending on our progress over the next month we’ll probably field a similar team at West Ham in early January. And I fear for that match already, but I guess the FA Cup doesn’t matter either. And what of the older players (or the would-be first teamers)? Rosicky at least tried to build some offense with his mates, Eboue and Song tried to create some danger going forward, even though they were (desperately) needed at the back. Otherwise it seemed like, “Hey watch me, coach, I can dribble, spin a long pass, do a neat flick….teammates, what teammates, those guys are my competition for playing time….” Maybe they were fighting for spots on the plane for next week’s Greek getaway?
And what is Arsene doing to Alex Song? Subbing him at the half vs Chelsea so he’s fresh for his audition as our backup CB? Maybe the message is that he really isn’t all that and that we won’t miss him in January. Certainly we won’t miss him against Stoke; Denilson will be far better defending those idiot long throws….Somebody help me here. (Also, is he really suspended, seems like nobody knows how this works–Arseblogger telling me that Merida wouldn’t be able to play last night, etc.) Likewise Rosicky….was that his final chance to show that he ought to get a new contract? Seemed like Mozart was at least trying to help out at the back, but ended up the culprit for the (deciding) first goal (though Eboue and Song both let him get the ball onto his right foot with exceptional ease).
I want to believe in Arsene and I don’t mind him playing the Villain (who won’t shake hands with Hughes), but I’m losing the big picture. One of the things that really attracts me to AW is his lofty talk of being a part of a team, but sometimes it seems that these skilled players he’s recruited (all who seem to have played in central positions before coming to Arsenal–because of their skill) aren’t buying in and now our club is just a stepping stone towards higher aspirations (maybe even more so in a World Cup year?). I guess every game is crucial (at least if it’s not a domestic cup match) but these next two (Stoke & Pool) seem really big. Less than 4 points would be tough to swallow and would put us right in the middle of a dogfight for a CL spot.
Seems like we’re going through a bit of tunnel….Ah, but there’s a light up ahead….sure hope it isn’t a train….
Song is suspended for Stoke.. 5 yellows and all.. Hope we don’t miss him too much against the long throws and set pieces. He is one of our few muscly, hard-to-shove-off players.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=706921&sec=england&root=england&cc=4716
If only, this could be true, Arsenal would be champions. :(
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=707346&sec=england&root=england&cc=4716
Iceman Wenger losing his cool.
Young Guns at Dawn: Arsenal shooting blanks
The Carling Cup adventure has ended. All of us realized it was just a question of which opponent would field their first team v. our squad with the (hopeful) experimental line up.
Our manager is consistent for his views on this competition and certainly consistent for his behavior when the squad loses – so as our beloved manager so eloquently stated, ” if you have no expectation, then you won’t be disappointed”. (wonder why he was so angry yesterday?)
For me I could have swallowed the loss better if it had been against any club other than City (and ManU). I just don’t like Hughes – never liked him at Blackburn (although I watched all their matches because of Friedal) but dislike him at a new level at City.
The loss to City has stirred the emotion’s pot again for our manager, in the wrong way. It seems the patience level from fans has evaporated. Maybe he should have asked his players not to play so attractively during September & October so fan expectation would be lower?
Sunderland, Chelsea, and now City are not the results that build confidence and momentum.
If we intend to be a championship club, then you must expect injuries and others must step up. Most would agree, after our starting XI, its a crap shoot. Still too many projects under construction.
Maybe its just another year of remodeling and we need to accept.
I dusted off my ’08 (December’s) holiday wish list. Hey, it hasn’t changed.
Oops, sorry, I need to add a keeper.
Our next five league games are not going to be easy.
Stoke (H) – always tough opponents; currently 9th; boast a stronger defensive record than us
Liverpool (A) – haven’t won at Anfield since 2003; have been shipping lots of goal; can we take advantage while not conceding too many of our own?
Burnley (A) – strong home record (4th best); already beaten ManU at home; conceded only 6 goals at home; half as many as Arsenal have conceded on the road
Hull (H) – should be straight forward
Aston Villa (H) – fighting for a CL spot; beat us last year; currently 6th; not a bad away record; boast a stronger defensive record than us
A good team… which most of us believe that we are … will win 4 of the next 5 matches.
Anything less than that, will be a dissapointment.
STOKE at Home.
If you can’t be Stoke at home, are you actually a top 4 team? How can we worry about Stoke?
LIVERPOOL Away.
There is no better time to be playing Liverpool. They are more of a mess than we are.
BURNLEY Away.
Another one of those matches the BETTER teams find a way to win. United – Chelsea get the win here 90% of the time.
HULL and VILLA @ Home.
Home has to be the “fortress” that Wenger always talks about. Before getting spanked by Chelsea – it was. It MUST continue. Take care of business at home… find a way on the road.
I like your spirit here Stag, and these games ought to net us at least 13 points(plus 3 more at Pompey on Dec. 3)….but we’ve got to take them one at a time and the injury situation seems pretty critical at the moment. (Nipuna links to the latest Theo injury below).
Also, to me, this does not seem like a good time to travel to Anfield with Torres returning to fitness and them with only 4th place to fight for. Rafa and the fans will be making it their latest “must win” game (assuming they take care of Blackburn this weekend). Given our recent struggles I’d probably take a goal or two and a draw (though as always I will hope for more).
I just saw the game highlights on youtube.
Song and Silvestre were all at sea.
If Gallas or TV5 is out for a decent amount of time, we could suddenly find ourselves fighting for 4th place.
Ummm, how long have I been saying that? You have to have an adequate answer at back-up, and he has to PLAY actual games on occasion. You can’t trot the same players out 38 matches in a row.
shit happens.
Arsenal’s last 5 visits to both Manchester teams in all comps:
Man City vs Arsenal: 1-0, 1-3, 3-0, 4-2, 3-0, Goal difference: 12-5
Man Utd vs Arsenal: 4-0, 2-1, 1-0, 0-0, 2-1, GD: 9-2
Hmm. One win and one draw in the last 10 visits to Manchester.
Arsenal’s goals for vs against stands at: 7-21.
Exactly shipping in three times more goals than those scored.
I have never been to Manchester but must be one evil city, atleast from an Arsenal point of view.
Arsenal’s last 5 visits to Anfield: 3-6, 4-1, 1-1, 4-2, 4-4,
GD: 16-14
Arsenal have had no problem in getting goals away to Anfield but have still let in more. Although just days before that thumping 6-3 win, Arsenal won 3-1, so if that result was included, it would neutralize the goal difference.
There was once a time when Arsenal did not lose too badly (a goal or two) but there have been some lop sided results recently, including letting in plenty of goals.
Sigh.
We focus on SCORING.
Championship teams focus on DEFENSE.
That is the problem. Wenger has put too much focus on creating a team of finesse scorers, and not enough on strong physical defenders.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2755789/Wenger-is-Edin-for-Bosnian-ace.html
Couple of brighs bits of news. a) We’re chasing Edin who’s 6ft 3in. b) Sendy wants to go to Athletico.
Well, according to the papers, we were chasing Edin last summer and Senderos wanted to go to Everton. :)
I didn’t see the game, but I read that 6 Arsenal players got yellow cards and Arsene refused to shake hands with Mark Hughes.
Arsene is beginning to get deluded again. After the Sunderland game, he said that we would have won if it was a home game. Does he think we play only home games in the league? Does he need reminding the top teams (like Chelsea and ManU) win away from home after the international break?
Last night, Arsene said that the big crowd played a big part in the game and that we would have won if it was home game (again!). So when we go away, the crowd should be minimal so that his dear kiddies can play their game without any distractions??? What the !!!
This is really sad.
I don’t think even Wenger believed the team he put out there
today … against a full strength ManCity team… the one that beat our first team 4-2… was going to win.
He has never been interested in this competition. It is more of a
chance for our “B-squad kids”… and first team players either coming back from injury or needing minutes.
The outcome is exactly what it should have been.
If we won, it would be like City losing to a First Division team.
Not even the Carling Cup Darlings are scoring goals… we’ve now gone
scoreless in 3 of 4 matches…
Can’t score, and can’t defend… not a good combination.
At least Wenger has said he is open to buying in January.
Nothing surprising about the result.
Immediately I saw the City team sheet, I knew 3-0 was what we would get. 3-1 at best.
I thought Vela “tried”. Eastmond was completely non-existent.
WHAT DID COQUELIN DO TO PISS OFF WENGER? The guy has completely fallen off the chart.
The real worry now is that I dont see where our goals are going to come from … even against Stoke! YET we will still concede! Oh dear!
If I was the Stoke manager, the tactics will be very simple. Pack the bus with all your life, frustrate ’em, frustrate the home fans. Target set pieces. Get in those long throwings!
I would be hopeful for at least 1 point if I was playing against Arsenal right now.
PLUS: Lets face it, even if we had moved past this game, we would have faced Man U over two legs in the semis.
Its better to go out easy now.
PS: Yeah, its better to rationalize defeat like that ;-)
Oddly, I thought the same thing :) It is good that Man Utd will get two passionate games. If City can’t trouble Man Utd on the field, atleast there will be a big wordy lead up to the game, regarding who is the real team from Manchester..
Sachin, ManU played as many kids as we did.
They will also play their youngsters against City.
They don’t care about the Carling Cup, they play for real trophies!
Fred,
what did you think about Ramsey, Merida, and Eboue?
ALL were inconsequential, unfortunately.
Bendtner is the guy holding the League Cup team together. In his absence, they never stood a chance.
This whole youth thing is getting extremely dull and tedious. It was good for a few years but it has seriously reached saturation point, watching hopelessly naive and weak bodied kids fumble around the pitch getting bitch slapped everytime we play a decent and motivated side.
The hilarious part ofcourse being that for the first goal, which was the most vital, it was our oldest and most experienced player who was shoved off the ball like a rag doll.
Well that’s it, the malaise through the whole squad. The first team or Wenger don’t set the right example and so the whole lot of them seem to be only interested in ‘playing our game’.
I caught the 1st half & thought we held our own. You could see that SWP might create problems
for Traore – especially after Traore picked up the yellow. Not sure his foul was any worse than the
15 others from City players.
Then in the 2nd half I caught Tevez’s goal and then lost the feed until the 79th minute. Saw the last 15 minutes…..
As Stag pointed out – they pretty much started their starting XI. So I’m sure Arsene will be blasted for
his position on this competition.
I don’t understand why Arsene acted upset during the match. The calls went the way you expected for an
away game and his roster had too much inexperience for the opponents.
From what I saw in the first half, our offensive tactics allowed City stay compact and we made no effort to spread them out; problematic of the 1st team.
He gets upset because he actually thinks they can win these games, which is a worry in itself.
Craig Eastmond will be lucky to end up at Brentford and yet here he is, playing defensive midfield for the first team.
This ego trip has to stop.
Another nail in the coffin of the vibrant youth experiment without any seasoned pros in the mix – correction seasoned pros of any consequence. Silvestre etc. don’t count. They’re just sandbags to slow down the leakage.
Now that we ship three goals a game and no longer score – and resort to niggly fouls as we get frustrated – what figleaf of higher aesthetics can we cling to?
For five years now, Wenger keeps building a beautiful Japanese house made of balsa wood and paper. The first decent gust of wind and it all collapses.
I feel like a raging co-dependent, who gives a person one last chance a thousand times in a row.
Whiny, bad loser manager creates whiny, bad tempered youngsters.
well… we don’t have to worry about the Carling Cup any longer!
no big whoop… City played their strongest line-up at home, I’d hope
for their sake that they get a win, or they should fire Hughes on the spot…
Starting XI: Fabianski, Song , Silvestre, Eboue, Traore, Ramsey, Eastwood, Merida, Rosicky, Wilshere and Vela
I have to share this comment with everyone – from twitter –
Arsene will start for the Carling Cup everyone who didn’t play in Sunday’s match against Chelsea. Which means the lineup will stay the same.
Sorry it was funny at the time.
Im excited for this game. Pressures off for once and I think we can win this convincingly as long as the kids start lol!
I think it will be different from our usual games. I don’t feel we can dominate possession and I think we can be quite lethal on the counter.
heres hoping for a good game and an arsenal win!
I hope its almost all kids today… with Silvestre and maybe Eboue in there for some experience. I don’t want Song injured in this type of match, so I would have preferred Senderos play. He is apparently done at the club, if he isn’t injured.
I don’t want Theo injured in a CC match either.
We have fragile players… its just factual! They can’t be playing
too many matches, or they’ll break!
As someone noted above, if we win… cool… if we don’t, oh well.
Let the youngsters play… it has always been fun to watch the kids play in the Carling Cup, and they usually impress every year.
If ManCity play their regular line-up, or close to it… not sure
how we’ll be able to compete. They beat our 1st team handily in Manchester, so I’d expect the same here.
But you have to play the games, and maybe we can get an early goal and change the match, put the pressure on them.
Stag,
I’m expecting our babies to give them 90 minutes of hell, even if we have to bite their ankles and whine loudly.
I know you are passionate for Arsenal to be successful, but in the scope of things its just a game, one of life’s no brainers.
From experience I can share with you that its more fun to focus on the positive.
This match is only another small step in the clubs long journey.
That’s positive?
its just a game, so don’t worry about it?
I am well aware there are more important things in the world than football, but it doesn’t make me more positive about our current state, and going forward as an Arsenal supporter.
I just see that the direction has to change or we’ll never progress back to one of the teams with a chance to win trophies.
The positive… is that supposed to be that we play pretty football and make the biggest profit?
One last bit of spew before I get on some work projects….
I’m really hoping to see some good stuff today from Fabianski….At the last CC match he was beaten by Insua’s wonder strike but overall had a fine game and I think he’s our keeper for the future. I actually think AW was hoping to move him into the number 1 spot at that time (Almunia’s mysterious ailment was “continuing”) but he re-injured himself in that match. Of our three keepers, Fabianski, IMO, is the only one who predictably will come out for dangerous balls, which has got to be a huge confidence builder for our defenders. Our CBs are solid players–imagine if they had a keeper behind them they could count on.
Agree about Fabianski and his skill set plus our need for a solid keeper – confidence booster for the back 4.
Fabianski needs to have a match like Mannone had v. Fulham – to justify leap frogging Almunia.
DAG, good luck with your interview, I guess. What are we gonna do if you get a job? You’ve told them that your duties here will come before any of their work stuff, I hope….
Don’t know what to say about these potential strikers in January….You’ve mentioned some in-form (and tall) players, but it always seems to me that it’s players who have run afoul of their managers and aren’t getting the playing time who might be the real bargains. And by coming out in the press isn’t AW saying to other teams, “Who do you want to ship out?” Of course trying to figure out what AW is thinking is like……(I don’t even know what to say here).
And that goes for today’s CC line-up. I had a feeling that Song coming out at HT v Chelsea might mean that he’d play at City and 29 year old Rosicky is in the squad, but Denilson is too valuable? It’s all gone a bit crazy for me. I like the starting 11 as Nip wrote it above, but I think there’s a good chance of seeing Gilbert and Randall starting in place of Eboue and Rosicky and Coquelin and Watt either starting or coming in from the bench. I don’t like it when I feel like I’m losing the plot….At least it ought to be an open game….
If I can figure out to make a living off you lot then I am staying. And I already have an idea how to handle going back to work. I shan’t let up. Hell two of the jobs I am in consideration for are for MLS. No conflict there really.
As for the transfers I was actually trying to think like AW (hard as trying to get Rubicks Cube right). I just went looking for strikers that aren’t going to come up many team’s radars but that could have an immediate impact. I also went looking for ones that could offset the Drogba effect.
Mbokani is the most interesting in that he could fit the mold of being devleoped by Arsene to fulfill his potential. Cardozo – pure size and ability is why I like him.
Anyway today’s squad will be very intersting to see and will say alot about how AW really views this Cup. But I agree it is going to be open and again I think our side will be up for the physicality of it.
I also think Ade is going to use his “ankle” excuse if he underperforms today.
Balotelli (Inter) another experiment option.
Yes, good luck on the interview!
I apologize for this digression as City is our focus today.
For those that are still wearing blue shades and drinking the blue kool-aid: snap out of it.
Most of the remarks about the match on Sunday can’t be substantiated by what happened on the pitch.
Yes we lost. The tall, strong, powerful, “evil” Darth Drogba was the difference!
EXCEPT – HE DID NOT BEAT US IN THE WAY THAT ALL OF US EXPECTED, which was bullying our CB’s!
Chelsea’s defense only looked respectable because of our inability to MAKE our chances – AND WE CREATED FAR MORE THAN THEY DID. With the luxury of replay, its obvious our timing (decision to pass and shoot) was off. Most of this can be attributed to Eduardo and Nasri not having much playing time this fall, plus Denilson (ditto on the pt) not being a real threat for attack versus the purported idea that we weren’t tall and strong enough.
Chelsea dominating play – an urbane myth. Yes, they are taller & weigh more but film does not lie. I went back last night and graded the match.
50/50 balls:
long high balls to Drogba OR long ground passes to Drogba
Vermaelen 8 wins to Drogba 1
Gallas 4 wins to Drogba 0
(no long balls to Anelka) It is possible these are not exact, but if anything, I have erred in favor of big, bad, invincible chelsea.
The Chelsea vaunted midfield & attackers: J. Cole – Lampard – Mikel – Essien – Alnelka – Drogba v. Arsenal weak-short – finesse only : Cesc – Denilson – Arshavin – Eduardo – Nasri – (Song)
50/50 balls/tackles
Chelsea – 12 wins
Arsenal – 32 wins
All through out the broadcast (on FSC) the chelsea bias broadcaster (Robbie Earl) kept repeating: Chelsea can’t seem to hold possession and Arsenal shows much more energy and want for the ball.
Yes they used low pressure defense in our half. When we had the ball in their half, we moved possession down the “center” – right through their vaunted diamond defense. They NEVER could take possession – this idea that they let us is just unfounded by tape.
If you want Arsene to go out and get us a Drogba type – FORGET IT, he doesn’t exist. Drogba is a special player and Chelsea are blessed with him. This is sports and sometimes you out play your opponent and still lose.
The score line is upsetting. We all wanted the 3 points – in any fashion. Arsenal are still playing on 4 of 8 cylinders and as we get further into the season and player understanding improves, our finishing will reap the benefits.
Sesh, I viewed the game in much the manner you did, except that I saw that Chelsea had a near limitless ability to absorb our pressure and they were able to make the little pressure they created count for goals. It was a classic approach for how to win on the road. (And Sagna’s pull down on Anelka has gone unmentioned, but seemed a penalty to me.)
Our boys did look good in the middle of the pitch (esp. Nasri and Song I thought, but both were subbed, so I appear to be losing my telepathy with AW as I discuss below) but the finishing, as you say, was missing. We’ve got a good schedule this month to get it back on track and I hope we can. We have a reasonably solid team but these last results mean that we need to show that solidity now (or at least at the weekend) or else it’s just talk.
It was difficult to watch the replay. They absolutely took advantage of their ‘limited’ chances, but that’s part of every sport – having some luck. We had nothing go our way – zilch.
I don’t believe in speculating what if. I watched the match twice, and was dejected by the loss but saw too many positives from our players!
Sagna’s pull down, yes a penalty – except Anelka was offsides on the play.
Drogba’s goals were far from luck.
Chelsea’s style of play was not luck, it is planned, and they did exactly what they wanted to do.
As HighburySteve noted, they let us have the ball, absorbed the pressure (the little we had on them)… and waited for our errors.
You can try and spin it any way you wish, but Chelsea’s defense is fantastic. It’s not down to luck, or smoke and mirrors. We could have played all night, and not scored a goal. They are ROCK SOLID defensively, and we are not.
That is the difference.
Chelsea:
scored 36
against 8
(20 for / 1 against at home)
Arsenal:
scored 36
against 18
(with one fewer match)
There is a BIG difference between the two clubs defensively…
There is no getting around this fact, no matter what you think you saw on Sunday!
Stag – aren’t you changing the goal posts with this example?
We’re discussing the match on Sunday.
You will find little disagreement that Almunia is not in the class of Petr Cech.
I totally agree Arsenal have conceded too many goals but considering the above examples there is room to discredit; as the two clubs have not played identical competition in the same venue’s.
Most of your negativism is centered on their dominating us – we are short, weaker, and finesse only players. My post relates to those remarks and contradicts your postulations.
They are taller, stronger and more physical.
You can’t really debate that either.
The match Sunday, is the same match that plays out almost every recent Chelsea match.
It was their typical win over us, so I don’t see what you find so positive in a result in which we had no chance of winning.
I have to throw another name out for a transfer target – again another unknown:
Oscar Cardozo, Benfica 9 Goals in 11 Games so far. 26. 6′ 4″ (13 goals 29 Appearances 07/08, 17 goals in 26 appearances in 08/09)
He already has two hatricks and scored two goals in 2 minutes against Everton in the Europa group stage in October.
This guy I like. And he could be cheap compared to other options mentioned. Imagine 6′ 4″ up front of our attack. Sagna could lob balls all day.
—-Fabianski—-
Eboue – Song–Silvestre – Traore
——Eastmond———-
Ramsey——–Rosicky—-
Wilshere——–Merida—-
——–Vela————
Senderos: another team must be showning interest, so they are not risking injury.
Other than Silvestre, there is much optimism with this line up.
If Eastmond gives another respectable performance, we may be seeing him in 1st team duties
as an option for Song in January.
Go Gunners!
Denilson will take up Song’s position in January. Maybe even earlier.
Agree – at least that’s how I interpreted the half time change Sunday.
We will know in the next two games – Stoke and Liverpool.
Wenger’s View – The Official Manager’s Email – 29 November 2009
I do not think title race is over
Dear Supporter,
We are all very disappointed with the result on Sunday, but I feel the 3-0 scoreline against Chelsea was a very unfair reflection of the game, but we cannot change it now.
I believe that Chelsea had absolutely everything going for them on Sunday and we can only respond in our next game. With their first shot on goal, they scored. With their second cross, they scored. And after it was difficult.
The turning point was when the referee disallowed Arshavin’s ‘goal’ early in the second half. I feel it was a very unfair decision. That was a very important goal in this kind of game, and I feel it was a mistake by the referee.
Of course, Chelsea are in a very strong position now, but this team, for me, they can drop points. I’m convinced of that. That’s an impression I have. Before we speak about the title, we now have to get back to winning games.
Also when you look back at the game, I think Carlos Vela could have had a penalty. I think it was at least a foul on the edge of the box. If the referee gives a foul when Drogba scored from his free-kick, he cannot say it was not a foul on Vela. But I do not want to talk too much about the referee. I think we make mistakes; we need to look at ourselves and ask why we conceded the goals.
Drogba is a good player. It’s funny because he doesn’t do a lot, but he’s efficient in what he does. You would be surprised by the number of balls he touched on Sunday. But Drogba is a great player, nobody can deny that. He’s very efficient. I think as well, at the moment he’s in a period where he kicks the ball and it goes in. On the first goal, at the moment he has complete confidence and he doesn’t wonder ‘will I score or not?’. He just goes for it and he did very well. It’s a great goal, the first one, but it’s a goal of a striker in complete confidence.
I do not think the title race is over. I think we are fighters and we have to show that in the next game. The problem we have at the moment is that people will not believe in us, so we have to make sure that lack of belief does not diminish our belief.
That’s where we have to be mentally stronger than we were until now. Because until now, we had some credit that we earned at the start of the season from the ‘specialists’, and then we a lose a game. And now it will be harder for us.
Thanks for your continued support.
Arsène Wenger
Arsene almost convinces us that scoring from your first shot at goal and second cross is not allowed in a game of football.
Hey Nip,
Same email sent to me too. Since our defeat against Chelsea, I’ve been getting email from Arsenal …
Does it mean season ticket sale for next season due to start some time now?
Hmmm …
Song in the squad and Denilson left out!!!!
Is this a sign of things to come?
Further, Vela is in the squad but Walcott is missing.
Guess Song will play CB as Senderos is missing. Still would have liked him not to play. He is, after all, our only DM. Now if he gets injured, will Arsene blame the Dutch FA?
Maybe we should assume that Denilson is still Arsene’s # 1 choice at DM. Look back at
Sunday. Song replaced by Theo & Denilson moved to DM.
Yeah, that is what I meant by “a sign of things to come”.
It also appears to rule out any DM signing in January!
Well I said the starting line up was a crap shoot and I was right. The 18 man squad is:
Tomas Rosicky
Carlos Vela
Aaron Ramsey
Alex Song
Mikael Silvestre
Jack Wilshere
Lukasz Fabianski (GK)
Vito Mannone (GK)
Emmanuel Eboue
Armand Traore
Fran Merida
Kyle Bartley
Francis Coquelin
Craig Eastmond
Emmanuel Frimpong
Kerrea Gilbert
Mark Randall
Sanchez Watt
Who’s the noticeable one left out? Senderos. Wow has he fallen so far down the pecking order that he can’t even make the squad for a Carling Cup game?
Also I have to check but I thought Fran Merida was suspended. If he was suspended why would he be named to the squad?
Okay Merida is in the squad and CAN play
His suspension/ban is not effective until December 9th.
Nice that is a good attacking option and has he is starting to show he like Ramsey is really growing into a scoring threat.
For City: Martin Petroc is injured. He was done up during the international break. I suspect than Ireland or Bellamy to be in that position
No Theo! Even a bigger question mark. This kid needs pt.
I don’t know if I am alone here, but I start to get really annoyed by Arshavin’s talking habit. He just keeps on TALKING TALKING TALKING.
I guess that’s one reason AW tends not to buy establishing stars. They seems to be more interested in playing manager than playing football.
Arshavin claimed he was downhearted by Arsenal’s tendency of losing in big games. Yes he’s telling the “truth”.
But did he ever ask himself – has him been performing in those “big games” this season so far? When we lost to Chelsea, was it everyone else’s false but himself?
Then Arshavin added “Arsene needs to buy new players, expensive one too. Why? Cos all the talented and inexpensive one are already with us.”
He’s right again. Let’s spend 30 mil to buy an expensive attacking midfielder to take over his place. Then I’ll see how he likes it.
Hate footballers when they open their mouths. Play your frigging football, do you job on the pitch, won us some games before talking with your a$$.
I don’t mind players saying their peace.
He wants to win, realizes the squad needs to be improved, and is saying so.
He was on the pitch, played the full 90, and gave his best effort. I didn’t see him slacking.
He is not the first player to do so, and the others were CORRECT as well.
Maybe Arsene will sell him too. Would you think that was the answer? Maybe bring in another 19 year old?
I don’t think it would be that straight forward though. If a football game depends entirely on team sheet, then they might as well exchange team sheet at the beginning, decide who win, and everybody go home.
Man City drew against Hull City at home. And I don’t think our B side are worse than Hull City.
I agree though Rosicky and Walcott will be involved. Since they are not exactly starters these days. Eboue as well.
That squad with Barazite and Watt in it would get humiliated.
A 5-0 pounding wont do any one any good.
Rosicky and Walcott will SURELY be involved. Wenger might be crazy, but he aint suicidal.
I fear for Senderos and Silvestre against Adebayor. And we havent even talked about Robinho, Tevez, Bellamy and SWP …. ALL of whom would outpace our CBs even if they tied 10 pound weights to their legs.
Its hard to figure out how we can escape with a result when we dont even know the lineup … offensively anyways. But I have a feeling we might be able to pull something off if stay calm, target their CBs and Fabianski has a good game.
i disagree! I think a squad with Barazite and Watt has every chance to beat man city!
Honestly, I don’t see us winning this game. We will play our kids (I support that) and ManCity will play all their big guns. And the game is away from home. If we win, it is a bonus. If we lose, no issues.
I think thats the overall sentiment.
I am not sure I will be around to watch the match. I have an interview at 2PM I should be done by 3PM but the place is 90 minutes from my home.
Grrr.
Gameday chat will be open (actually its always open): http://www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat