EPL Match Day 5: Arsenal v Sunderland; Match Preview
Finally, a real measurement test.
Let’s get right to it shall we? In order for us to prove our mettle, this is a win we must come away with. It’s not a must win. I am sorry I don’t believe in must wins at Week 5. But given the style of play at Sunderland and our howling defeat there last season, this is a match that we simply must use to show our credentials.
Sunderland are going to be a test even though their season has been an up and down roller coaster. They’ve been brilliant against Man City, using the 4-5-1 formation to success. But they’ve also allowed Birmingham to come back and draw against them when leading 2-0 and they’ve been beaten by West Brom.
Additionally, they’ve got a league low 8 total shots on goal and they already have a number of Red Cards – one of which is resulting in Lee Cattermole enjoying the match from the stands. Furthermore, manager Steve Bruce has some selection issues as injuries to his side are mounting up.
Sunderland will look to equal the feat of last season when a visiting Arsenal were unable to mount a counter attack to a Darren Bent goal. The loss was the highlight of the season for the Wearsiders and one of the couple of matches Arsenal shouldn’t have lost.
The Wearsider attack looks to be fronted by the club’s newest and record signing Asamoah Gyan. This could be his first full start for the home club as he has only subbed in the last one. He’ll likely lead the front alone with Darren Bent in the midfield. It is Bent though that is their talisman. Their last win without a goal scored by Bent was in August of 2009.
History however is on Arsenal’s side. Since the inception of the Premier League, Arsenal have beaten Sunderland 10 times, drawn 5 and lost 3 – the most recent being last season’s 1-0 loss. In order to keep Chelsea close by, Arsenal need to win again.
While it will be no easy feat, the Gunners have been up for the task this season. The start to the season was less than impressive, drawing at Anfield but since then they’ve been on a tear. What is more enjoyable is that even with injuries to Van Persie and Walcott, the scoring hasn’t dropped off. Even with the draw at Anfield the Gunners have 13 goals in 4 matches. Next to Chelsea they have the most shots on goal and for all of us concerned about defence, they have only allowed 8 shots on goal in 4 matches.
The Gunners head into this match with fans starting to feel some sense that maybe the player shave come of age. Still, it will take a win against Sunderland to maybe even the meter more in their favour.
They head to the northeast with a myriad of players showing increased potential. Cesc Fabregas seems otherwordly right now. After criticizing his own play after Blackburn, he came out against Bolton and showed why has to be considered one of the best if not the best midfielder in Europe. Against, Braga, well let’s just say, that someone his size shouldn’t be scoring headers against any oposition. He was his best. It seems as if Cesc is doing everything he can to secure silverware for Arsenal this season. It also seems like he has a few players along for the ride.
Jack Wilshere is showing every bit of promise he was supposed in his first full season with the first team. His poise in the box never more evident than when losing the ball in his feet against Braga, he simply back heels it to Chamakh who drives it into the net. Also on the Fabregas ride seems to be Andrei Arshavin. I have a known dislike of Arshavin. Maybe dislike is too heavy, I just think he can do more, and maybe he is just starting to show that. He himself has been critical of his own play and looks to be trying to step it up. There are others but one of the new guys has to be pointed out – Marouane Chamakh seems to give us everything that Nicky B hopes he can be. He is killer in the air (10 of last 11 goals have come off his head), he is deft at dishing out the ball (against Bolton he had 29 passes – only 1 went astray), he looks strong on the ball and isn’t easy to move off. Just ask Blackburn. Throw in good spells by Song, Rosicky, and and the french team back four and we look pretty good.
We need to be. We need to show our class. The passing is looking again like vintage Arsenal. The team as a whole seem to be buying into the idea of pressing on players when they have the ball (something I think they took from Barca when the drubbed us last year) and defencively while we seem to be good for a mistake here and there its been good. One of the reasons could be that our new defencive pairing – even with Vermaelen, feel like they want to prove they belong. Last year, Silvestre, Gallas may have taken matches “off” because they fel there was nothing left to prove, why come out with verve when I’ve done it all already. That doesn’t seem to be the case with our current defenders who seem to be wanting to get in the thick of it. Ultimately I think the defencive middle will be held by Vermaelen and Squillaci. I think Koscielny is still a little green and is sunday roast or two away from being thick enough.
Overall the team seems to be progressing – however, it will take a win this weekend to move minds even further along.
How the Match Should Playout:
This is going to be a tough match. I don’t suspect Sunderland to give us the space that Braga gave us. They will put bodies on us. But unlike City, we aren’t playing with 3 holding midfielders, the four headed attack of Chamakh, Fabregas, Nasri and Arshavin should be a little more to handle than what City offered. It won’t be easy and Bent and Gyan need to be marked. Song will be essential to keeping control of the feeds to Gyan. Look for a fast start by Arsenal to feel out and test the opposition, if they don’t score early, I see a late first half goal opening it up as Arsenal play the patience game.
Players to Watch:
Arsenal: It’s very easy to point to Cesc Fabregas. Each week he should be the man to watch. But right now he seems to want to take his play to another level. It could be the last season he wears the Arsenal red and white and he really looks to be trying to make the most of it.
Sunderland: The club went out of its way to break its bank on Asamoah Gyan. He seems to be tailor made for the EPL. This Saturday the late match sees him get his start against a top club.
Probable Starting XI:
Injuries and Suspensions:
Arsenal: Diaby (ankle) Vermaelen (achilles) Walcott (ankle) Van Persie (ankle) Ramsey (ankle) Bendtner (groin) Frimpong (knee)
Sunderland: Cattermole (suspended 2) Mensah (hamstring) Reid (achilles) Campbell (knee)
Last Meeting (EPL):
Arsenal: 0
Sunderland: 1
Current Form:
Arsenal: DWWW
Sunderland: DLWD
Leading Scorers:
Arsenal: Walcott 4 (4 league) Arshavin & Chamakh 3 (2 League) Vela 3 (1 league)
Sunderland: Bent 4 (2 league) Gyan 1 (1 league)
Match Officials:
Referee: Phil Dowd
Assistant Referees: Simon Long & Dean Mohareb
Fourth Official: Martin Atkinson
Broadcast Information:
US: FSC 12:30 PM EST
UK: ??? 1530 BST
Feeds:
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GAMEDAY CHAT: It’s Open!!!!!! www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
YAMA Prediction:
Arsenal: 3
Sunderland: 1
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Interesting, damning, unsurprising article on European Football finances. So did I miss it, or was our model economic club somehow not mentioned at all?
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5580467/european-football-eating-itself
The pecking order (or queue system as some might call it) is well and truly alive at Arsenal.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-szczesny-does-deserve-his-chance
Arsene’s quote,
“He is right, he deserves a chance but the keeper is in front of him, Vito Mannone, deserves a chance as well,” said Wenger.
“You can only play one goalkeeper. It’s part of their job as a football player to live with competition and decisions.”
It’s also the option for a player to request a transfer if he feels he is not getting valid consideration. Also, consider that he has only 1 more year left on his contract, he will not sign a new one unless he gets a chance to play.
This could very well end up as another Flamini/Merida situation, with the only difference being that CZ has lots more immediate upside than those two and could be our GK solution for the next 15 years.
Arsene needs to either play him or send him out on loan. We have lost too many players to pecking order BS. :reallypissed:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-don-t-blame-fabianski-for-keane-goal?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arsenal-news+%28News+Feed%29
Arsene says we can’t blame Flap for the Spurs goal. WOW!
I can see why Szczesny is not happy with his situation.
I don’t think we should blame Flappy for the goal….Keane placed the shot well and it was struck with great power….Perhaps without his “incredible” reaction time, he wouldn’t have even gotten a hand to it. (Winky Face) That said, Flappy needs to keep a clean sheet (hopefully at home to Northhampton or whoever we draw) in the next round. I still keep wondering if he’s EVER kept one in the (by now several) matches he’s started for us. Stat Man? And, if you were to look at the goals he’s conceded, how many were the sort that NO OTHER decent keeper would’ve given up, i.e., caused by sheer nerves….
If anybody should be blamed for the goal it should be a) the linesman wrongly keeping his flag down and b) Gibbs, who was jogging the wrong direction as the remainder of the back four stepped forward in unison, allowing the call to be close.
Sneezy needs to sit tight until January and see how the (clearly unsustainable and impractical) 4 GK situation resolves itself. In the meantime, I think AW is doing the best he can, trying to bolster the shaky/nervy/flappy GK while urging patience to #s 3 and 4….
Perhaps if we could secure three points away in Serbia next week (and another three in the Ukraine in October) then Sneezy and/or Mannone maybe could get a run-out before January in the remaining CL group matches.
Flapianksi had only two clean sheets last season – City and Fulham at home once the season was decided and the games were meaningless. In the other 8 games he played, we conceded 16 goals.
But in 08-09, he had 8 clean sheets in 16 starts !!!
Nice to see the two big money clubs (City, Chelsea) struggle and go down in the baby cup. And one of the two big debt clubs go out in pathetic fashion as well (Pool)…Very nice, esp. after we successfully rolled the dice against the ancient enemy. And a core member of our new (English) generation (Gibbs) sidesteps the ranks of the perma-crocked….All told a nice midweek return. Still, a few things worry me….
Unfortunately, I think the CC is a big ask for us, mostly because AW persists (stubbornly?) with Flappy in goal and because we’re getting stretched by injury. It’s all in the draw, and hopefully a home fixture is in the cards (or ping pong balls). If we can get to the new year (semis, I think) and have Flappy shipped out in January, I would like our chances a whole lot better, and given that we don’t have an insane run of fixtures like we did last February, I don’t see why we shouldn’t go for it.
In the meantime, we must acknowledge that the Flappy experiment has gone too far and that Lukacz needs a fresh field to try and bring his much vaunted practice form–and “reaction time”–into something that leaves his (and our) underwear clean during matches. Good as he might be if he can overcome his obvious and overwhelming stage-fright, Arsenal is not the venue. Sadly, I might have to side with the realists/doomers on this one, and say that AW has too much invested (i.e., ego) here and we’re gonna be forced to ride this particular train over the cliff. Who knows, maybe it’ll all turn around and we’ll sing “Fabianski, Fabianski, he’s got the safe hands, hasn’t he….” (as in his dream….) The emoticons are awfully small, but squinting at them I don’t see one that signifies “I’m not holding my breath”….
The other item would be the refereeing. I didn’t see yesterday’s Chelsea match, but if Nip says Alex won a soft pen then I believe him. Dowd’s performance in the Sunderland match was pretty bad, I thought, and like most of the English refs he let the game get away from him before making his big decisions (Song off, Pen given on Nasri). It should have worked out for us, but for Sicky and his bottle (or lack thereof). And, I’m sorry, but giving Nasri that penalty at White Hart Lane was a severe miscarriage of justice (he should have been shown yellow for the dive) and it swung the match. (And, it was a nice bit of luck given that Keane could’ve won the match a moment before, but for the post). We were the better team, of course, and we “deserved” the win, but that doesn’t always translate to a result.
So, lucky in midweek, unlucky the Saturday before. And both matches, I believe, show that we ARE getting tougher and more resilient. Nonetheless, I still think that dives that lead to goals that lead to victories (and are watched by everyone, including the referees) can backfire. Our team is still–despite several observers delighting in our new “Englishness”–full of foreigners, and a reputation for playing for fouls, long-term, I think, works against us, at least in England. I haven’t been observing the game as long as many on this board, so I’m happy to be corrected if others think I’m wrong on this one.
Still, even a noobie can appreciate the glory of beating Spurs on their home pitch….And I do….
I think two signings have been very key to Arsenal’s good start and the hope that Arsenal are different this season.
Kos and Makh.
Makh has given the team a focal point of attack. Considering RvP is almost always injured and Bendy is simply not reliable, Makh has come as a welcome relief for the likes of Arsh, Sicky and Theo.
Kos has been a breath of fresh air in defense. Instead of the cold faced Gallas or clown Syl, we have a player who will give his all both on the feet and in the air. And it is good to see a guy who goes in early, rather than make a late tackle. If this continues, I see Kos and Verma being first choice, not the Skil.
http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/i_ll_marry_you_when_arsenal_wins_the_fa_60_years_on_diamond_couple_george_and_joyce_are_still_going_strong_1_655082
Not sure one can make the same promise now. ;)
Did you see Alex’s dive to get Chelsea a penalty against Newcastle?
It was that twat Phil Dowd who gave the penalty.
Surely Arsenal are favourites for the CC now?
Arsenal v West brom in the final would be lovely!
Man U are the favorites. When it comes to the semis of the CC, Arsene is likely to play kids while SAF will go for the easy silverware.
Ah, another “Magical Night” at Anfield as the press loves to say. A grand total of 22,500 show up to watch their team lose to a club that currently occupies 17th place in League Two (i.e. the 4th Division).
If they do make it and Arsenal finally start winning, it would surpass the Scholes, Neville, Giggs output of the 90s.
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As awesome as it would be to see our group eventually form a new British core at Arsenal, I’m not sure it would surpass that output. In addition to those 3, you have to include Becks, Nicky Butt, and both of the Neville Bros.
Well, the seven I listed is the same number as the seven of Man U.
Just being exuberant …
Yeah I know. And I think they can become a truly excellent core if things go right… but unless they become as successful as those players, I don’t think we can call it a better output. (Call me crazy but I don’t foresee an Arsenal treble in the near future.)
Chelsea
Tottenham Hotspur
Manchester City
Liverpool
…all eliminated in CC round 3. Which means Arsene had damn well better make a real effort to win this f*cking TROPHY (yes, a trophy), b/c it is there for the taking!
Last year, after we won at West Ham in the FA Cup, ManU and Liverpool were eliminated in the same round.
Most of us were thinking the same way – if we can avoid Chelsea, we can make a real effort to win the FA Cup.
We all know what happened at Stoke City.
It depends on who we face and what team Arsene puts out.
All too true.
from Niccolo Machiavelli, a realist:
“It ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new. This coolness arises partly from fear of the opponents, who have the laws on their side, and partly from the incredulity of men, who do not readily believe in new things until they have had a long experience of them.”
:zombiekiller:
So true and appropriate.
By the way, your recess is being cancelled.
This is going to be an exciting season to be an Arsenal fan (v. the past five) and not the time to be on sabbatical.
Our collection of skillful smurf’s are snapping at the ankles of every opponent and gaining maturity before our eyes.
Charlton and QPR are not substitutes for ARSENAL. WD-40 your keypad, ingest some caffeine, and start contributing to this memorable season.
As for the League Cup, no team is immune to injury issues and roster depth will have more influence on this years winner. (imo)
Today, Chelsea lost Kalou and Benayoun and this is how quickly depth can evaporate for a manager. Secondly, having used all of their subs, Chelsea was forced to play a man down. Losing to New Castle at home, giving up 4 goals, is not the end of the world for this club; but all of a sudden there are chinks in the armor- raising hope for ALL others to exploit.
This Chelsea team tends to under perform in the lesser cups and during the pre-season. However, once it comes to the EPL or CL they seem to throw a switch and become a pack of wolves.
I would not read much into their CC loss although we all know that every team, no matter how great they are, will go through bad patches. Arsenal of the past five years just seem to have these patches more often than Manu and Chelsea.
Fundamentally, this happens because of youth and the lack of experience in the locker room.
I don’t believe Chelsea have the same “depth of experience” as they’ve utilized in the past seasons.
Maybe my memory is a bit weak but I remember years ago, in another Chelsea vs Newcastle game, Jose had brought on all 3 Chelsea subs at half-time. Chelsea had a player (think it was the keeper) sent off late on. But since all their subs were used up, they could not bring anyone else on. Chelsea lost that day as well.
Although atleast today, Chelsea only brought on two subs right after the half, with the third coming 10 minutes later.
5 years from now, this same pattern might repeat in another Chelsea vs Newcastle cup game :)
I think Terry went in goal.
Arsenal players seem to be defined by their ability to play in various positions. We have seen (this season) our team in various shapes with the 4-3-3 being the most discussed system. It seems that during the match the players adapt to the competitor’s pressure; transitioning (interchanging) from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 to 4 -1-4-1 to 4 – 6.
In the 4-2-3-1, we have seen Diaby and Song in front of the defensive back four, taking turns to initiate an attack based on who wins the ball and can advance. Both seem to have the manager’s approval to move forward if the opportunity presents itself – as we’ve seen Song push forward quite a bit. With either having a license to attack, numeric advantage is gained for Arsenal, creating problems for the opponents defenders. Vieira was quite effective moving forward in the same scenario.
Jack has been slotted into one of these DM positions, not because he’s a natural defender, but because he reads the game well and a pit bull at tackling. Additionally, playing from the back you have good vision of options in front of you. Positioned in the center of the pitch, you have space (on both sides) to dribble, pass, and maneuver v. being on the wing.
Just as Cesc (when Jack’s age) played with a strong supporting cast, Jack is receiving the benefit of receiving playing time alongside the talent of Nasri, Rosicky, Chamakh, Song, Cesc – and rear support from this seasons stronger back four.
Most will remember Ramsey in this position last season to our advantage and his development.
Newcastle or Villa away are two fixtures we don’t want either.
I share your concern Fred. :-)
Chelsea, ManC, Spurs and Liverpool all out of CC – beautiful.
All we need now is for ManU to get knocked out soon and we’ll have a clear run without any of the likely speed-humps remaining. You know, the ones that typically undo us.
So what if the tournament has taken on a new hue, one where clubs take the opportunity of blooding their young talent. Isn’t that exactly where we’ve planted our stake? Aren’t we THE club that have come to personify the blooding of young talent? So why not win the tournament that reflects that aspiration? Why shouldn’t that be the first trophy of a new era.
I think Ars has a good point when he refers to depth, I’m not game to suggest we have sufficient depth but I do agree that the off-season moves (in/out) together with some natural development sees this team with a few more motivated options than last season. No one can say, hand on heart, that Kos and Squil are ‘better’ than Gallas/Campbell/Sly but the new boys are unarguably younger and seem fresher, untainted and a bit more motivated. This spring-thing that Kos and Verme have going is seriously funny/good – experts in science & defence may be interested. I like the FBs – there is depth there no doubt.
Then moving forward the arrival of Wilshere in the first-team proper is potentially pivotal. Wenger’s right to be cautious, football is littered with bright starts that peter out somewhat. But you sense there is more to Jack. If he can guard his behaviour he looks a serious addition in the way Cesc was. I agree with Art he isn’t a DM, but Song aside we don’t have any of those do we? Wilshere is a serious option – you can throw him into any number of roles and he won’t look horribly limited ala Walcott, Diaby, Denilson and Bendtner. Jack’s got the goods even at 18.
I guess Rosicky, even in a limited/pampered way, is a plus. With him it’s ridiculously early to be crowing about any new dawn. But if he can avoid another breakdown and be available with a limited controlled workload that’s a nice wee bonus.
At the apex, Super-makh looks a A-grade signing. I really like this guy. Unselfish, hardworking, aerial, a real box player, a real line leader. But I do fear for him and the flog-factor. We simply aren’t as deep as we need to be in attack. Still too much fragility and dross.
So there you have it, Chamakh, Rosicky, Wilshere, Kos and Squill providing a sense of meaningful new options over last years squad. The end of Oct will be a better stage to take a reading of our health.
Being a good defensive midfielder is just as much about attitude as it is physical stats.
Denilson, Diaby, Song. All of them switch off, lose focus, and get complacent. In extra-time last night when we were 3-1 Wilshere was still scrapping and scampering like the scores were level – that’s what we need. This a trait that Fabregas has and also one Ramsay showed before his injury.
I think there is a difference between being a midfielder with good defensive attributes and being a defensive midfielder. The former describes the players attributes and the later his position within the team. A classical DM sits in front of the defence and acts as a shield. His mindset is defensive first. Is having a classical DM along these lines on Wenger’s radar? I’m not so sure if the evidence supports that. Song is the closest we have with that mindset to happily sit and shield. I struggle to see Jack being content in that classic role nor do I think it allows him to bring all his skills to bear on a game. That said, I can see Jack ‘sitting deep’ alongside another player and using his passing range to good effect (which is what has happened). He can then progressively work on his attacking game ala Cesc and in time move into a more forward-focused role.
As it currently stands, I can see a threesome of Cesc/Wilshere/Song working an absolute treat. They all have sound defensive attributes, Cesc can enjoy the more attacking role whilst Wilshere sits deeper alongside Song. Seems eminently sensible to me in the current context and given the style Wenger aspires to play. The thing is, they each actually offer something consistently tangible and useful to the team that I just don’t see in Diaby and Denilson. If Ramsey does come back fit I can see him sharing this role with Wilshere.
Yeah, I would share Wenger’s view that having a sitting midfielder who just shields is not particularly vital. Certain players do it well like Mikel, Mascherano, Makelele. I’m not a fan of Song to be honest and think he lacks that discipline to stay back and hold, but I agree that that midfield looks our most promising at the moment.
Pressing high up the pitch is also great defensive tool and that’s what I was getting at with Wilshere and Ramsay. Knowing when to drop off and block off passing avenues, but also knowing when to pressurise the opposition into mistakes and not just automatically drop off. The great teams tend to know when to do both and prey on the insecurities of opposition by mixing it up.
Yeah, I agree for the most part. Wilshere is the real deal.
Unfortunately, he is only 18. No way we can expect this much from him at this age. He will blow hot and cold for another 2 years vacillating from average to very good.
The league is out of our reach IMO, we just dont have the long-term steel in defense or a real GK. We will surely have injuries come March … and that combined with tiredness would do us in.
However I think we could have a shot in the Champions League as long as we get a good draw. The Carlings Cup is also one we should really target this year – we have only Man U in our way.
We just need to get two home ties against non-Prem teams and we are safe and sound in the semis.
Am hoping for Northampton at the Emirates for the 4th round, then Ipswich at home for the 5th round …. then maybe Wolves in the semis.
Then we face off with say Aston Villa in the final.
Any trophy is good enough … and it doesnt matter who you beat to win it!
PS: We will probably draw Man U away for the next round!
Chelsea knocked out of CC as is City.
The most pathetic player on the pitch yesterday wasnt even Fabianski … it was Bentley!
The guy doesnt even make the Spurs team anymore (except for Arsenal games) and every time he plays us he ALWAYS tries to score a “super” goal from distance! As long as he is past the half way line he is going to shoot with all his might! The look of desperation he always shows against us is just so sad to watch.
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I am starting to think this might be Vela’s last season at the club. I just dont see where he fits in long-term. He and Eduardo can only play off a main striker and are thus the major victims of 4-3-3. Too slow for the wings, too small for the middle. You just cant play him in a real pressure match.
Am sure we would make some good money from him when we sell. Wenger always does!
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If Lansbury is smart he would start making his case as the natural successor for the Flamini/Parlour role. He is big and strong and can run non-stop for over 90 minutes apparently … and he should show he can do the running, harrying and tackling in the middle defensively.
If he tries to be an AM or winger he is going to lose out easily.
There is a major hole in both the Arsenal and England DM roles for someone to fill. He needs to get into a situation where he plays a few games very, very well and gets a call up into the England NT. Once you get into the NT, Wenger is going to play you more regularly!
So I hope he is smart.
Long term, I really hope Lansbury, J.E. Thomas and Kyle Bartley can break through and settle into the team. Joining Gibbs, Wilshere, Walcott and Ramsey to form a solid unit of SEVEN homegrown, British players choke full with Arsenal DNA!
If they do make it and Arsenal finally start winning, it would surpass the Scholes, Neville, Giggs output of the 90s.
Hopefully, Jay Simpson then becomes a top-class striker … repeatedly notching 20 goals per season at … say Aston Villa or Everton …. then we can tap him up by trotting out Wilshere and Gibbs to talk about his Arsenal DNA and how they are holding him hostage and how is only “on loan”! That really is the ONLY way to get over this humiliation Barcelona is subjecting us to right now! :-)
More seriously …. a long term 2 years down the line of this team would be nice ….
GK: New keeper, New keeper
LB: Gibbs, youth teamer
RB: Sagna, Nordveit
CB: Vermaelen, Squillaci, Koscielny, Djorou, Bartley
DM/CM: Song, Lansbury, Diaby, New experienced DM
AM: Wilshere, Nasri, Ramsey
Wing: Arshavin, Walcott, JE Thomas, Rosicky
ST: Chamakh, Bendtner
Out: Almunia, Fabianski, Eboue, Clichy, Denilson.
In: Two new keepers, one DM.
Fabregas would long be in Barcelona, Van Persie given up on.
Squillaci, Rosicky and Arshavin playing the elder statesmen of the team.
Funny how Lennon had ZERO joy against Gibbs yesterday. Our left side of defense was LOCKED. A complete no-fly zone. Offensively, Gibbs was getting to the byline or cutting to the inside repeatedly and to good effect.
Then Clichy came in and got beat by Lennon FOUR times in the 15 minutes of extra time he played – when the game was already done. Clichy has regressed so much so that Eboue is a significantly better defender than he is.
In that short cameo, he did some nice interceptions (his specialty) and dribbles in midfield then once he got close to the final third, his brain froze (another of his specialty), he stopped, eye-balled his marker then turned and passed diagonally backwards. Cutting sharply inside? Getting to the byline? Defending? Fuck that!
Bless!
Gibbs – bruised foot / no break in the metatarsal.
Terrific news for the club and player.
From the Club:
“The club is happy to confirm that, following last night’s Carling Cup third round match at Tottenham Hotspur, a scan to Kieran Gibbs’ foot has shown there is no fracture.
lovely news
The news implying Schezny is getting restless is really disturbing. From what I have seen he is far better than Flappy and Mannone. Why has Arsene not allowed him to jump the queue he is a “special talent” too.
Trust in Wenger … he knows infinitely more than you.
A thought just occurred to me. Had this been a league match, it would have ended after 90 mins. It would have been a 2nd straight 1-1 draw on the road. I’m not complaining, I think the team played well. But had this been a league game it would have been 2 more pts. dropped. Just food for thought.
‘Cago had this been a league game we wouldn’t have had Flapianski in goal, and probably a decent linesman and won the game two – nil :-D
The ref and linesmen are from the Prem.
More of the entree for thought!
missing from the line up:
———–Almunia————
Sagna – Vermaelen – Squillaci – Clichy (most of the match)
——-Song——Diaby—–
———–Cesc/Ramsey——-
Bentner——RvP——Theo—
Spurs also left out MOST of their first teamers from the starting lineup. Only Bassong, Palacios and Ekotto are usually in their first team.
What makes this result any different from the 6-1 thrashing we gave Liverpool at Anfield in the Carling cup a couple of years ago?
You guys should seriously stop crowing about CL and CC results before January. After the New Years then we are in business. Havent you been burnt enough?
For now the only thing that matters is strength and consistency in the league. NOTHING ELSE!
Nobody has left an impression that we beat the Sp*r’s first team. Taking an inventory of the usual Arsenal starters who were out because of injury only reinforces our depth this season v. past seasons AND REASON TO BE OPTIMISTIC.
I don’t think any Arsenal fan is foolish to believe this win at WHL seals anything for the club……
Let people be happy…are you sure you support Arsenal Fred?
Everyone knows it wasn’t their first team you don’t need to bite someones head off for being positive jebus
Yeah, only hippy AKBs are Arsenal fans.
I think his point is that sometimes it’s just good to be happy with a win. Was it perfect? No. Were there mistakes made? Yes. Am I happy that Arsenal beat Spurs? Hell yes. I can find something wrong in every game I watch but it doesn’t mean I have to overlook the good to do it. The team won. Enjoy it a little.
For Djourou’s first match in a year, he looks to add to our CB options.
Our manager took a calculated risk by sitting out this high profile match v. WBA on Saturday. For this lineup to pull off the win, with his absence from the sidelines, will only ADD to their confidence.
Also, our manager made a tremendous impact between Saturday’s disappointing draw and tonights contest. Tonight, our players played under composure. If the high risk low percentage pass wasn’t there – they patiently maintained possession looking for a better percentage pass. Also as Fred brought up after the Sunderland match – time management; we took the lead in aet…….we moved the ball around and made them chase – killing off the clock.
I’m seeing many good things from this team ‘depth’ wise
The question thus begging to be asked, is why they did not do that last saturday.
We cannot win them all and we won’t play well all the time especially with ten men for most of the game and Wilshere playing as an out and out DM.
For most of the game??
Song was red carded in the second half …
Maybe Brazillian ankles should have have stopped playing Fabregas and sat back …
CK……who knows? Part of the maturation process?
Howdy Ars, :-D
“I’m seeing many good things from this team ‘depth’ wise”
True it surprised me how we could change 8 players despite the injury list and still have a strong sqaud out there.
Rumours circulating that Gibbs has another broken metatarsal…
He hobbled off – hence my comment above.
Oh dear … ANOTHER metatarsal… isnt that what took him out last year?
Wenger said it’s the metatarsal immediately beside the one which was broken.
As for Vela, don’t quite understand the “tranny” part of it, but I can certainly understand a 21 year old with loads of cash inviting some ladies of ill repute to his party.
Now for some great news. Vela has been suspended by the Mexican FA for 6 months. That’s positively wonderful. No more lost passports and long gruelling flights. Yipee!!
I didn’t mention that Vela ran his socks off today, he harrassed the CBs and GK continually despite it being a largely thankless task. It suggested to me that he might have his head in a better space – i.e. adding ‘effort’ to his talent.
What was he suspended for?
Four counts of naughtyness…. him and another young player. Sounds like a bunch of them involved, the others only had one count of being naughty and got fined.
Hope Art saw the game and admired Wilshere’s performance. Wilshere is in the team on merit. It’s now up to him to show up with performances like todays that prove he’s got the goods to stay in the side. Not every English youngster is as undeserving as Walcott ;-)
Gibbs too was excellent. He looks a lovely player. I jolly well hope he hasn’t got a rogue crock gene in his DNA. He probably didn’t wash his hands after going to the London Colney toilet.
Yep I watched and thoroughly enjoyed that game, Kiwi.
I agree probably not as undeserving as Walcott. I have been watching Wilshere for some time in the academy and you haven’t seen anything yet bar his performances in the Emirates Cup.
However my issue is not with the talent of the player but rather the fact he has been asked to play a DM role. In the second half of the Blackburn game and what appeared to be the entire Bolton game the role appeared very restrictive. It appeared to me that he was under instructions to sit back like an out and out DM. That to me is folly, if you want someone to play that role then Wilshere falls behind even the likes of Diaby and Denilson in competence.
He is not in THAT position on merit but rather there for experience sake. If the tactic is to allow one of those “DMs” to have an attacking remit or freedom to attack then Wilshere can hold a place there without being a weak link in the team if the other DM does his job well.
So my criticism is the position he is employed in that makes him a “queue jumper” and not an supposed lack of ability. I think I made the point about position in my response to the conceited ;-) Mazza.
I hear the comments from both sides re Sneezy. Notwithstanding that he feels disappointed, having an unmeasured rant is unlikely to promote his cause. I feel a tad disquieted, if he’s as good as many say he is, and if we’ve put our GK situation on hold to await his maturing then it’s hardly a good development alround. Wenger hates disrespect – and Sneezy’s barbed comments are aimed personally at His Lordship.
I watched the CC game.
I liked the line-up (except for Vela up front in a lone role). It was a sensible fusion of reserves and quasi first team players.
The back 5 was all reserve, although Squil may prove that statement incorrect in time. He does some things really well. Today he made a last ditch perfectly timed tackle in the penalty area. It was ‘hi-risk’ but perfectly executed. Gibbs looked really good and strikes me as a highly intelligent young player. Gibbs and Wilshere look like they could play for Arsenal for 15 years. Eboue and Djourou completed the defence and it operated pretty well – Spurs aren’t the mugs they were.
Vela started the match up top and to be fair to him it was a bit of a thankless task. He’s just not equipped to lead the line ala Chamakh who came on at 72mins and showed him how it was done. The midfield did really well. Wilshere often dropped deep to pickup possession, Nasri buzzed about for the whole 120mins and showed the bottle to take 2 penalties, Rosicky lasted 72mins and was replaced by Arshavin (who we’ll come to). Lansbury impressed me A LOT. There was a little bit of Ljungberg about him in appearance and performance. He ran the whole game long, showed bite, fitted our game well, scored the first (money) goal, he was good.
Ok, Arshavin. No doubt he is currently in a bit of a lazy(ier) spell, he has that unfortunate ‘can’t be arsed’ swagger about him. But he showed again today just what he has to offer. He won’t do a ‘Lansbury’ nor a ‘Rosicky’ but he will do an Arshavin. And ‘an Arshavin’ is the money plays. He’s an events man. Don’t expect him to consistently work his socks off until he has an epiphany (if ever). But sit back and watch the wee man pick his moment and then cause or finish a goal. He scored today and killed the game off. Just before he scored he crossed a grass-grubber across the face of the Spurs goal that Chamakh almost poked in. That’s Arshavin. He does what others can’t.
So there you go. Lovely to see thousands of Spurs fans vacate their stadium with 20mins to go. How jolly embarrassing. Also lovely to see the mirror image passing game that the first-team play being performed with aplomb by this composite mainly reserve side. At times I felt a little sad for the Spurs team who simply couldn’t get the ball!
I’d love to win the CC.
Yup, I would love if we really had a go for the CC.
Every team member other than Fabregas should be made available for the CC … while integrating our second string defense, Lansbury and Vela.
The Mighty Flap failed another test today …. nothing new there.
On Fabianski, truth is that moment aside he played ok.
Kiwi he only played okay when he had nothing to do.
Every time they were close to scoring that I can recall he was no where near it. Even the one that hit him in the midriff Nasri had to clear of the line first.
Problem is that when he actually does have something to do he goofs up. When was the last clean sheet kept with him in goal?
my screen was small, but I kept thinking Koscielny paired with Djourou…….and it was Kos’s timely tackle in the pa….
I meant Kos (don’t know why I wrote Squil)!!
great tackle!
:reallyangry: :pain: :struggle: :heh: :wilt: :blush: :cry: :laugh: :beauty: :lashes: :blush: :drool: :devil: :cowboy: :alien: :eat: :pray:
What more can I say
Hopefully this will get us back on track in the league. Good way to forget last saturday.
Cesc is likely to miss the Chelsea game due to his hamstring injury.
Arsenal injuries…
Internal memo from the Ministry of Truth:
Do not worry. This is all part of the plan to remove pressure on our young boys for what the supporters think of as a “big match.” As we know it’s just another tricky away tie…. Pursuing this strategy should insure that Cesc is rested during the following int’l break, thus making him available for the long slog towards our real goal (solidifying our top 3 position)….
:rainbow:
FYI – I will have something up post match. In on a crunch deadline at work.
Also, looks like its a more senior squad playing in the CC today.
Pretty much everyone from this weekend will be involved including some of the youngsters.
Regarding Clichy’s performance on Sat, we discussed in GDC and I defended his performance. It was much better than usual and I thought he kept Elmo quiet for the most part (he’s a good player and keeping him quiet for a full 90 would be A Cole territory- Clichy aint that good!). Although I agree on the offensive front. I saw some OPTA starts which suggested Clichy is an attacking force (they compared number of touches in a game with regards to area of the pitch and some other mumbo jumbo). What I gathered from it is that stats can lie big time. Clichy needs to get to the byline a la cole/bale. He’s got the athleticism to do it, he’s got the players around him that can pick him out, just bloody do it!
And seeing the equalizer again, it was a catalogue of errors. How the hell do we switch off like that?
-Chamakh mistimes the first header and doesn’t get it anywhere near as clear as he should have (otherwise ref blows there and then).
-Ball goes to Zenden who gets pressured by Denilson who hits it back into the centre (don’t think there was much Denilson could’ve done there- he pressured him quick enough)
-Our defenders are in no man’s land. Noone picking up the guy who flicked on the Zenden ball. Noone picking up the attackers who the ball was flicked on to. No defensive line which would have seen the offside flag go up.
-Mass confusion. Squilacci I think it was isn’t able to clear. Clichy sees this and goes across to clear himself. Gets there and doesn’t do the best job of it, Kos can’t do anything, nobody marking Bent. Goal… Outfukinstanding.
Re: the final play…
To everyone’s credit on our little site here…nobody blamed Almunia for the goal…. (winky face)
Squill, who I like so far in a sort of journeyman/taking care of business/ you don’t really notice him kind of way, elected to try to kick the header (Elmo’s) back out towards the center circle when he might have more easily put it towards the corner flag. With time expired, that might’ve done the trick….
Very relevant point. No one is giving Sunderland credit for their effort. They’ve played plenty of teams tough over the past couple seasons. Elmo is a handfull for any defender. As for the goal, I’m sure if Clichy knew Koscielny was there, he wouldn’t have tried to clear the ball directly into his leg. To play devil’s advocate, I do remember Clichy clearing one of the Sunderland corners off the line. Surely, that’s worth a goal.
Szczesny is running his yap. I don’t know about these alleged promises but he’s going about his business all wrong. His only claim to fame was an okay performance in the Championship. That hardly puts him in a position of power. His comments will only anger the club and Wenger could very well sell his ass to FC Siberia.
As for the fabled pecking order, I find it silly that anyone would suggest that Wenger shows bias. He sees these boys in training every day and knows full well what they are all capable of. Wenger is too sore a loser to pick players on anything other than his belief in their quality. People wanted Song to play when he wasn’t ready. People wanted Fabianski to play when he wasn’t ready. People wanted Vela to play when he wasn’t ready. People wanted Merida to play when he wasn’t ready. Now people want Gibbs to play.
Mind what you wish for joshuad.
CZ has a right to be pissed. He had a fantastic loan spell last season and asked Arsene to repeat it if he was not going to play regularly this term.
Basically he has 3 GK’s ahead of him in the “pecking order” and at 20 years of age needs to be playing. So far he has played 1 reserve team game, not enough for a 20 year old with star potential.
Why didn’t we send him out on loan once again, especially since we were trying to add another experience4d GK to the fold.
Makes no sense to me, and I’m sure it makes no sense to CZ either. If you have seen any of his interviews you would have found he is very mature and confident.
He already has senior caps for Poland am I am here to say it now, that if we lose him, we lose one of our brightest prospects in a position which we can’t afford.
Oh, an additional thought.
As a coach for many years, from U-9 thru U-17 and some semi-pro, I have seen many players who look great in practice but who could never reproduce their form during game time or who constantly choked in the big games when pressure was high.
Practice may be an initial factor in team selection, but certainly, match performance over time certainly can’t be discounted.
I had a young Venezuelan once who looked totally disinterested in practice, although he always attended, but was my leading scorer and top 3 in assists for 4 years straight. Did i start him? Bet your arse I did. :inlove:
Both Flappianski and Mooney have demonstrated over time that they do not have the temperament to be world class unless they get some much needed professional therapy.
Agree with both of you. Sneezy needs to shut TF up. I’ve been seeing lots of links to us and GKs and if our #1 and #2 “play to their potential” (i.e., show their lack of ability to play commandingly in MATCHES), January could see a major re-shuffling.
The problem is that the Schwarzer (no) deal came down to the wire and then there was no time to sell off or loan out any of our four.
If Schwarzer had come we might have seen a Pole (or two) sold or loaned to Legia, as well as Manny’s departure. (But it might’ve helped if they hadn’t imitated wide-meshed sieves during our pre-season match out there….) My hunch is that the one failed deal scuppered all the rest. And then AW got his contract extension and Gazidis, I would also bet, didn’t take a pay cut….
JD I am not sure what you mean by “fabled pecking order”. But if you doubt it exists then I have to question your judgement.
Why it should seem silly to you that Wenger shows bias is also questionable, as bias is a natural human instinct. Why did Walcott get so many appearances in his first few years especially as he was playing so poorly? was it because he was the best RM we had? Why was Diaby played LM so often? Was it because he the best LM we had?
I’ll tell you what I think, and this is is not “a concept manufactured right out of my ass” like Fred so politely puts it. Wenger has those who he thinks are going to make the grade and he insists on giving them game time unfortunately to the detriment of the team at times. Wenger sometimes plays players not because thay are the best man for the position but rather to give them experience.
As I intimated before he has being trying to appease the English masses for sometime now hence the overpriced British signings and the queue jumping.
As for Schezny
“His only claim to fame was an okay performance in the Championship”
No he was outstanding in the Championship. A place where goals and poor defending is easier to come by, do not underestimate the achievement.
If you had watched him for any length of time in the youth and reserves you would also see that he is an outstanding GK for his age and is far more reliable than Fab and Mannone.
Jack Wilshere moaned about not being happy with reserve team football this season after his spell with Bolton. I thought that was a big ask to get from Bolton to Arsenal first team but he has been afforded the opportunity. For a man of Schez’ ability to be left as possibly 4th choice keeper is an injustice. If he is not even trusted ahead of Fabianski than he has a right to be frustrated and demand a loan move.
Ozi I watched Elmo skin Clichy about three times and cross the ball. I though Elmo gave Clichy a torrid time, although I cannot assume he would not have been able to do that to Gibbs or even Evra. I thought Clichy was generally poor, gone back to the standard of his Ashley understudy days.
I do respect the fact that you and Josh chose to DF him though. He is our player after all, I wish him all the best.
Midweek games! How I miss good old uni days when I was pretty much free all the time. Ahh well… I’ll see if I can force myself to get up.
Re: Fantasy league- Damn JRoy. Didn’t realize I had climbed that high. It’s showing me at 42nd place right now… Hmm.. Just gonna have to climb to the top somehow. Carib you given up yet? :P
You are the man Ozi! (Though it might’ve been smarter to have kept Malouda as your Captain….)
There were a few other decent weekends by some of your followers, however….(CK, not so much….)
The CC match is on tv here, so I’ll be moving my schedule around (winky face) and on the GDC, and hoping to see Poisoned La Sagna (and others) there today. Though you’re the professional pharmacist (and maybe have more at your disposal)…. I’ll prescribe caffeine….
Not yet ozi,
It was my first stab at fantasy league and made a few mistakes. Too busy right now to revamp my squad in the proper manner, but will do so soon.
Until then :rotfl:
http://younggunsblog.co.uk/2010/09/szczesny-launches-attack-on-wenger/
I just know that DAG is about to post a CC preview so I’ll hold off on commenting about today’s match…except to say….
Damn, Our keeper situations is F**ked….
I guess today it’s Flappy and Manny (Mannone) and Sneezy can’t quite keep it together, patience and mouth-wise. I’m disappointed that Flappy gets ANOTHER shot, but given that we’re carrying 4 keepers (big question as to why…..) it’s to be expected.
I have a decent memory for one my age (I like to think) and I cannot remember Flappy EVER starting a match for us and keeping a clean sheet. If he could break that streak (and I would expect Spurs to test him) the 4 keeper situation will only get more confusing. If we go out today (and Mooney regresses in the league and CL matches) I could see a big turn-over in the January window, with a couple of new keeper signings and various loans and/or sales of our current keepers.
Stay tuned, it’s early days yet….
For the Spurs game, I hope we line up:
————–Wozciech—————
————————————-
Nordveit – Squillaci – Djorou – Gibbs
————————————-
——-Eastmond—–Landsbury——–
————–Wilshere—————
————————————-
Rosicky————————–Vela
————J.E. Thomas————–
Bench: Mannone, Eboue, Koscielny, Randall, Nasri, Arshavin, Chamakh
As long as I dont see Denilshit or the might Flapianski, I would be overjoyed.
I don’t believe Wozciech makes this start. Fabianski is higher in the pecking order.
Nordveit may have a small injury. Rest Squillaci for WBA to partner with Vermaelen’s return.
———Fabianski———-
Eboue—Koscielny—Djourou—Gibbs
——-Eastmond—Denilson——-
———-Rosicky—————
Wilshere——————-Vela
———-Jet—————–
but then I’m sure our manager will spring surprises on us…..
Is a ‘pecking order’ like a queue?
;-)
Yep ;-) LOL
Agree word to word with you Fred
I just do not understand, why any of our players need to put any comments regarding our football, and title chances, so early into the season.
Why can’t they just dodge such questions.
Or simply, why dosen’t the management restrict them from talking to the press, to make life easy for them.
We don’t have Keown in the dressing room anymore to smack these young guns’ face.
Denilshit mouthing off again!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1313603/Arsenal-star-Denilson-insists-Gunners-best-team-country.html
This is the kind of thing that makes me really hate this loser.
This is the same clown who was mouthing off big time after the Braga game … swerving from side to side in the interview like he was some veteran champion!
The cherry on the cake is when Denilson says, “You cant expect to win at Sunderland” … and a lovely “we have the best manager … and he doesnt put a lot of pressure on the players to win”.
Oh god!!!
You know a disastrous set of results is on the way when the three jinxes, Almunia, Clichy and Denilson have bloody quotes in the press.
Fred, how about sending Deni flowers every week (just like how they treat S. American players in Italy)? I’m sure at no time he’ll perform like the great Dunga … :-D
If Jack and Theo are jumping the queue because they are English, how come Gibbs is not?
Perhaps, the French have priority over the English in the queuing system. ;)
What a dumb statement Nipuna.
Clichy has been with us since he was about 17 directly behind Ashley in th queue.
If you want to talk about queue jumping you could say Gibbs jumped ahead of Traore if he was good enough.
It is clear to me that Wenger wants to appease the English masses and bring great British players onto the scene. All the fast tracked youngsters of late have been British. Eastmond, Ramsey, Wilshere and Theo. If the fast track didn’t have national bias Coquilan (mispelt) would have been ahead of Wilshere Ramsey and Eastmond for a DM berth. he is far more competent than all of them in that position.
Oh Arthur, what exactly is this holy “queue” you speak off?
Explain to us what exactly this arbitrary queue has to do with a supposedly meritocratic football club. While at it, give us solid examples of successful clubs using “Arthur-Queue” system would ya?
Hopefully you didnt pull out this arbitrary idea out of your ass … Or maybe during one of your “day trips” to Calais? ;-)
Fred, another dumb statement, but I expect better from Nipuna ;-)
The queue has nothing to do with Mr Sheds (to you boy ;-) ) But it is something that people (including you I think) complained about; Arsene’s Wenger rigid pecking order. That was the point. But you always seem to miss the point.
Again,
Explain to us what exactly this arbitrary queue “that must not be jumped” has to do with a supposedly meritocratic football club.
Also give us examples of other successful clubs using this arbitrary but holy queue – a concept hopefully not manufactured right out of your ass.
You still don’t get it? Darn! :-?
The point being that Wenger has been usurping his rigid pecking order to accomodate his favoured British players.
The point has nothing to do with my opinion of whether there should be a pecking order or not (I don’t think there should be if a player is better, then hes better and should play). The point is since Wenger has established a pecking order so rigidly why has he breached the pecking order to promote players who are not as ready as others for a particular role, IMO.
Do you get it now ?:-)
I cannot remember mentioning “meritocratic football” at all
Sorry, was just taking some time to understand your loopy, convoluted, Nigerian logic ;-)
So in one instance you dont “think Wilshere (nor Walcott) should get to jump the queue just because they’re English……”
— But in the other instance, you have “no opinion of whether there should be a pecking order or not” … and in a yet another instance “since there is rigid pecking order why is he breaking it” …..
Your argument’s logic has more twists and turns than a Mexican soap opera :-D
“Your argument’s logic has more twists and turns than a Mexican soap opera” LOL, that’s funny.
But it seems you still don’t understand!! Or you’re just being pedantic as usual.
But it appears Nipuna understood my “convoluted, Nigerian logic” but it is wasted on a random, self proclaimed “all-american” like you ;-)
Clichy and 95%.
Let’s start by saying that any reference to 95% has no statistically or anal redemptive quality whatsoever. It was merely a line to play to the masses. For me Clichy is neither a subject deserving unfettered praise nor demonisation. He is a classic post-successful Wenger player. He presents some attributes of serious worth and some that are seriously worrisome in a defender. And I agree wholeheartedly in your analysis Fred vis-a-vis Clichy’s end-product paralysis – alas I stayed away from that on the grounds of selective benelovence and in the spirit of site-unity.
We all have favourites and it’s fascinating to see Clichy is one of Stags. In the same way Ro Sicky is a blind-spot favourite of several others. Not every player will come with few demerits, that’s the nature of life, football and teams….. the ultimate issue is whether one thinks the composite of the parts is the best that can be expected. So with Cal Clichy and Ro Sicky, if the team actually managed to win something they’d get a longer leash and more tolerance. But when you win nothing but talk a good story for quite a number of years your judged a bit harsher. That’s life I’m afraid.
I do fear we’re stuck with Cal, he’s French and one of the few ‘successes’ to come through. So the chances of Wenger demoting him in the pecking order is unlikely. I too got a little bit excited when there were rumours of foreign superpowers lusting after him. Then I saw one of the supposed references was Mourinho and I jolted back to reality. Mourinho knows a defender when he sees one so….. you know whatever.
Arthur, you had no problem risking results when Denilson and Diaby were playing, but now you have one with Wilshere?
Doesn’t add up mate. Wenger’s methods were right before and now they’re not? So now you are agreeing with us when you vehemently backed the Gaffer before?
:-D
I don’t want to speak for Arthur, but I think he said (in the GDC yesterday) that he doesn’t think Wilshere (nor Walcott) should get to jump the queue just because they’re English…..Plenty of emotion around a bungled result. Arthur, like many of us, wants Wenger and the team to succeed, I think….(And although I’ve never seen the “fight in his eyes,” Mr Sheds scares me a bit, so I hope I’m not speaking out of school….)
We all have our prejudices and biases and hopefully we can (at least) be aware of them in trying to convince each other of the “rationality” of our views….For me, I’m desperate for Vela to succeed because of my Mexican connections and because I like his selfless team play and his general flair (chips anyone?)…. Another player I hope can overcome his injury problems and maybe his inherent over-thinking (the bane of the truly intelligent….) is Diaby, ergo, I pin some of my hopes for our MF on him. I like Rosicky too and feel for his injury troubles but he scares me in pressure situations much as Hleb did. Sorry…. (I’m using the multiple dots to indicate a wink at least until DAG gets those emoticons big enough for me to read….)
Hey, at least you guys have converted Stag (above) to the Dark Side…
That’s cool Steve you can say what you want.
I am not scary at all just ugly :beatup:
I rarely had a complementary word to say about Diaby last season. I have never been convinced by Denilson and have stated that plainly although I have DF him when he played well and the likes of Fred where on his back.
So what the eff are you talking about mate?
Anyway Wilshere is a far worse DM than any of them can you not see that? Restricting Wilshere in the DM is plain folly.
I will never agree with a Monger, if they they are Mongering. And I always back the gaffe, because he is just that the boss. But I have always criticised him (respectfully) when I think he is wrong. Ain’t nothing changed.
“I will never agree with a Monger, if they they are Mongering.”
_________
I love that line. It’s like a political retort.
Art trying his best to distance himself from past embarrassment. Politician is a about right ;)
As Bruce Willis would say: Hippie kay yay!
Speaking of politics. Mindlessly falling in line with ‘the boss’. Same kind of thinking is how Bush got elected here twice.
Come on Vibe you are far too intelligent to make such a poor analogy…
But I suppose you are just “falling in line” with your Monger boss ;-)
That was all in good (poor for some) humour Kiwi.
You are right though it is like a political retort as it means little more than nothing.
I loved it! It had a certain ring to it.
What a load of old toss.
Diaby was described by you as “incredible” last season.
For the past three/four years I’ve slated them two and you’ve always defended them. Vehemently at first but when you slowly grasped onto how average/limited they were, you subtly changed your tune. Now you’ve changed the record! Don’t worry Art, I remember the first song you were singing….something along the lines of “Wenger rates them and that’s good enough for me. Just because you say that aren’t good enough doesn’t mean that’s the truth Mazza old boy” ;)
I believe it was Joshuad who used the word “incredible” when talking about Abou Diaby, and he didn’t say he thought Diaby was incredible now- just that his skills, style, and physical attributes give him the potential to possibly develop into an incredible player one day.
Uh, oh…
It sounds like Chicago is wading into the murky waters of the latest He Said/She Said episode of “Dark Side Court”….As if he were the….wait for it…. The Ministry of Truth….
Or something….
(Big Winky Face….)
Still, this could be a fun one to watch…Is there a popcorn eating emoticon down there? (Where are my spectacles….)
C’mon boys, we all love the Arsenal… Hugs all around, says the hippie…(especially on a the heels of a brutal last minute result), but note (above) that I would like to see Diaby succeed and had secret longings that Clichy might ship off to sunny Spain. Could it be that labels don’t really clarify things and that opinions are open to change or at least modification?….
Probably not, esp. when the stakes are THIS HIGH!!!!
(More winky….)
Wait, I found some good ones….
How about :peace: or maybe :yinyang: or :rainbow:
“Wenger rates them and that’s good enough for me. Just because you say that aren’t good enough doesn’t mean that’s the truth Mazza old boy”
You are having a laugh Mazza, where did you get that quote from. It is factually correct though isn’t it. And I suppose the context of any such statement would be response to your constant Mongering and derision of our players. But it rings true today, that I will rather respect Wengers opinion on his own players than a Doom Mongers mongering ;-)
From the day the great Flamster left our shores I have been discontented. I have always maintained that Flamini needs to be replaced. As Much as I rate Song I would still rather have Flamini or a Flamini like player. So let’s put any quotes in context shall we.
I might add that I want all our players to improve and succeed. I will not just believe that they should be sent to the scrap heap as they cannot do what Flamini does.
No matter how disatisfied I have been with Diaby in particular I will always defend him against your Monger hate.
Difference between a Monger and a Hippie
Mongers hate,
Hippies love ;-)
Delete
QPR leading the Championship!
:)
Not much has changed with Arsenal. or YAMA.
Sunderland outplayed us for most of the match.
Arsenal created virtually nothing offensively.
With that, if the referee blew the whistle after 4 minutes of extra time, instead of 5, it would have been a very good win on the road.
instead. the same drum beats.
Somehow its Denilson’s fault! LOL
Clichy is terrible. LOOOOL
and the answer is, to wait until the biggest game of the year,
against Chelsea…
and to play Vermaelen, who has NEVER PLAYED AT LB at the club, and
let’s put him out there … out of position…
Yes. Sounds like a Wenger move!!!!
Won’t happen in a million years.
Great stuff. Let’s experiment with our line-up for the big games!
It is what it is.
Arsenal are exactly what we thought.
Not much change from last year to this year.
The key is not expecting great things, because you can’t make
chicken salad, out of chicken shit.
enjoy us for what we are… 6-0 winners over Blackpool or Braga.
and don’t worry… Almunia will surely blow a few goals in a big match, its what he does best.
We are Top 4.
Embrace it.
I’ll read and enjoy regularly.
and go back into hiatus mode.
Hope we stay undefeated!
:yes:
Whats does all this talk about Clichy getting 95% right come from?
He lost 2/3 of his attempted tackles yesterday.
And even speaking more generally, his main strengths are: running to intercept a high cross field ball – which is always a crowd pleaser. Other than that I struggle to actually name a real strength of his.
Defensively, he loses a significant percent of his tackles, and is often caught out of position (even when he didnt even bomb forward!).
Offensively he is an absolute zero. He charges forward at high speed then stops 30 yards from the oppo’s goal line on the left, eyeballs his marker, waits a few seconds then passes 5 feet diagonally backwards. Thats it! That is his grand offensive game 90% of the time, the other 10% he puts in an absolutely abject cross.
He never attempts to go outside the fullback and head to the oppo’s goal line so he can cut back or anything like that. Infact he hardly ever goes into the space between the penalty box and the throw-in line. Unfortunately that is the most effective place for a full back to get into.
When all that is added to the heavy dose of calamity during crunch moments, I dont understand where the 95% OK stat comes from.
Gibbs should surely have a go at it. But for the Chelsea game, as Kiwi said maybe we should have Vermaelen play LB.
You give Clichy too much credit…
Clichy fails to get to the by-line where he might be dangerous AND he finds himself out of position if we lose possession doing the harmless things he does try when going forward. Of course, an apologist will note that Arshavin doesn’t offer him much cover (if he were to head further forward) and that his pace allows him to recover, at least most of the time.
But I think it’s a question of risk and reward…If there’s no reward in his offensive play, then his defensive work should be risk-free. At this point his opposite #, Sagna, who will never be confused with an offensively minded full-back, almost never puts a foot wrong on defense, Clichy should be held to the same standard….
I have to admit I got a little excited over the summer seeing rumors that the big Spanish clubs were interested in Clichy….Probably just plants by Gael’s agent. If he were to go, Eboue could provide cover as well, as I recall him playing over there in a late season match a couple of years back (Pompey away, I think).
Blackpool the team suck. Blackpool the fans – outrageously funny. With Chelsea up 4-0 they are singing to the Chelsea fans – You’re Not As Good As Arsenal.
I love it.
this is the best post on this thread!
Well, it’s just about impossible to add anything to the discussion of yesterday’s match, what with everybody covering just about every angle. Certainly I appreciate the more measured responses above the SCREAMING, but as always, that’s just me….
Continuing the pre-match discussion about formation and personnel in light of yesterday’s match, I have to say that (for me) there seems a rather painful naivete which combines with inexperience to make for big trouble.
AW picks players with great skills, many of whom have played their entire lives as ball-handling, central attackers, and then he puts them (somewhere, anywhere) on the pitch. Given that we’ve got inherent frailty at the back (Keeper seeing ghosts, new boys at CB), it makes perfect sense to play 2 in front of the back 4 in holding roles. At home against Braga (and Bolton and Blackpool) this leads to gobs of possession and boatloads of goals, all pivoting around a tasty rotation in moving forward (and covering back) between the fulcrum (Cesc) and the two “DMs”. The true beneficiaries are the wide attackers (Arshavin and Nasri in the two previous matches, Walcott before) who can slot into the box or switch spots in a mini-rotation with Chamakh, our new (and pleasantly solid) horse up top.
On the road, however, it all changes. With a hostile crowd (and a cowed referee?) and the opposition pressing for more than just damage limitation and playing off the break, it all breaks down. The midfielders aren’t given the time and space to stroke it around or play cute pull-backs and their (wise or stupid, depending on who’s doing them) runs forward leave things more exposed when the wide men either can’t (Nasri, struggling for match fitness?) or won’t (Arshavin–lazy from too much Friday Vodka? or maybe he was drinking since the Weds match?) help out defensively.
So, the 4-2-1-3 (which will be sorely compromised if Cesc is out for any length of time) needs to be a real 4-5-1 on the road with some genuine MF possession and defensive work from the wide attackers. Why doesn’t it? I’d blame the same fellow who trusts that the right guy will take the penalty kick for having a bit too much faith in his young players to instinctively know the difference between playing at home and on the road. Uh…that would be AW….Even a hippie can question the manager, I think….
But the hippie needs hope, right? Song, Wilshere and Denilson, as Fred and Nipuna rightly point out, aren’t natural DMs. And other suggestions (Vermaelen, Djourou) seem fanciful. Long term, over the next few seasons, I think (and I may take some stick for this) our best bets for partnering Song back there are the thin-boned ones, Diaby and Ramsey, although they certainly aren’t “naturals” in the position either, and, of course, they’re both injured (at the moment).
Watching a little Spanish football (the world-cup and a couple of Real Madrid matches) it would have really been something if we could’ve bought Xabi Alonso a couple of years back and then held him hostage (a la Cesc), but I fear that’s just a wishful re-writing of history, sort of a hippie-doomer montage of mixed realism/whistfulness….
Or something….
Thanks for reading….
Yesterday’s game was a perfect illustration of why I thought all this 4-2-3-1 talk was a load of tosh. Nothing personal aimed towards your comment ; more an observation on the general Arsenal fan base as it’s been talked about alot in glowing terms on various forums. I’d been meaning to mention it for a while, and your comment sparked it ;)
What good is such a formation when you can’t pass the ball for shit and you’re getting dominated by an opponent with verve and vigour ; unable to respond in kind?
When you’re getting stomped on such things are immaterial and this is why we’ll win f-all again this season. The ‘Wilshere dimenson’ I talked about the other day? Didn’t turn up, did it? So we couldn’t get our passing game together and we all know that’s the basis of our whole game. The whole midfield was crap and it was crap at the time when you really judge a side, when you get a scenario you’re likely to get every week in tough away games. We all know we respond well with ten men, and players like Denilson become “have a go” heroes, but that scenario is pretty rare and while the resilience we showed was good, that’s not going to define our season. What’s going to define our season is our crap midfield and inability to play top class attacking football for a significant enough amount of time(to win things).
Goal-keeper, as I said in the Summer, was never our biggest problem. Indeed, there is very little wrong with Almunia. He’s a better goal-keeper than that midfield unit is as a collective away from home.
We’re still yet to reproduce the ‘all-weather’ midfield fluidity of 07/08.
Well put, as always…if perhaps a little negative for my tastes…
My hope, which for personal reasons, I cling to, is that Wenger’s trust in his players, which I think is a lovely, if rather stupid (“naive” is too forgiving) sentiment, will be rewarded as the season grinds on.
The experience piles up and mid-table teams (like Sunderland) and their fans will lose their early season fervor and our boys will cease their idiocy and will learn how to grind out results, even when things go against us. (And I would omit Clichy from this discussion, not being a central player….and seemingly always being headless….)
As such, (and on the evidence of the matches I’m watching today) we SHOULD get closer towards United, though Chelsea seem a big stretch, while the matches with the would be pretenders for OUR trophy (a top 3 spot and direct entry into the CL) will be the real tests. Everything being, as always, subject to the vagaries of luck, injuries and refereeing proclivities….
And, of course, we need our older, wiser players to show up and not bottle their chances (Arshavin, Rosicky).
Although I rarely doth a cap in that direction, I also secretly hope that this young group can win something together, but my anger at their actual lack of quality(Wenger not acting on this as well,) and overall naivity ends up ruling the roost and that’s what I dwell on, because that’s what is going to decide our fate.
Arshavin relies on a strong foundation in midfield to do this thing. We saw that against Braga. That’s when he can buzz around and inflict damage. When we struggle to create a foot-hold, he has to work in too big of an area(dropping back etc) and his focus dwindles.
Or instead of Diaby/Ramsey, we could go out and buy a DM or two… maybe??
Sadly Berba scored and ManU win 3-2.
Darn Barba!. Would’ve been great if the final result was 2-2 :-X
My My, what a turnaround!
Ngog is brought on and suddenly Torres springs to life.
It is 2-2 now and still 20 min to go.
Watching United vs Pool. Pool look as listless as ever.
They have only 4 points from 4 games and have scored only two goals – one of which was against us and the other was against West Brom.
Between them and Sunderland, we should have notched at least one win.
:(
Berbatov!–now on a hat-trick, with the 2nd, a spectacular bicycle kick….And ‘Pool’s injured/disgruntled Spainiard looking a whole lot worse than our own….(Although I think Torres just won a pen) Maybe the match is back on….
Gerrard converts, screwing my fantasy team in a big way… Perhaps the final half hour will be more interesting….
Edit to add–Stevie G! Free kick! After Torres draws another at the edge of the box, 2-2, fun stuff…Game on!
Join me on GDC.
Now Chelsea going Car-razy on Blackpool….
They seem pretty good….
Players miss penalties: Cesc and Arshavin last season; but yes, Rosicky should have sealed the 2nd goal.
Our back line and keeper passed another major test for their ability to be combative in the league. (imo)
Especially Koscielny….
When Cesc was 18 and starting matches at Arsenal, few fans complained….certainly about his physical
frailties. Jack’s understanding of reading the moments of the match and knowing the priorities will improve.
Pointing fingers at individual performances is an easy way to overlook the real problem in the match.
It was not until about the 19th minute that we even put together 4 – 5 passes and for me this was telling for the entire match. UNCHARACTERISTICALLY our back four kept launching balls up field. This is not our style of play. With the ball at the foot of any of our defenders, the focus should have been KEEP POSSESSION even if it mean’t playing back to Almunia and moving wide for the return pass.
Even in midfield we kept trying to force the ball forward, being tackled off the ball too many times, again the play should have been back to a supporting teammate. Play the ball around (retain possession) just to take the wind out of their sails and regain your composure and setting up our own attack.
Instead, almost without exception, every ball was powered up field for our midfield to battle. High school tactics 101.
Our midfield of Cesc (Rosicky) Song (Denilson) and Jack were physically overrun with not much defensive help from Ashavin and Nasri (in the first half).
I can’t blame the official for the contact he allowed against our players as we see this every match.
Its early in the season and this type of match can be a motivating springboard. We lost 2 points. We didn’t deserve 3 points.
Actually for this type of physical battle down the road……our manager should consider leaving
Kos and Squill at CB’s – and use Vermaelen to partner with Song at DM.
Chamakh had another excellent match and I’m hoping when RvP returns, RvP will find himself out on the right wing, leaving Chamakh in the center spot.
Dude, be careful saying claiming that it’s ridiculous trying to make every pass a forward pass. They might mistake you for a Denilson fan. No one on YAMA want’s to see Arsenal build momentum by keeping possession. We want every pass to be a dangerous, super-sensational, defense-splitting, game-winning, Sportscenter play-of-the-day, forward pass. Why play a lateral pass when you can force the ball in to Chamakh? Nevermind those three defenders within five yards of him. As long as you complete the pass, your stats will still be good. Chamakh’s a big boy.
Interesting from Arsene –
He said he thought Nasri was going to take shot but Rosicky made the call on the pitch to take it himself (wearing the Captain’s armband) Didn’t think the person who got fouled shouldn’t take the kick.
So, that was intersting wasn’t it?
First the goat, I’ve got three. Obviously Rosicky missing a PK – one where the Keeper went completely opposite from the kick. Another is Clichy’s two whopping mistakes and the third is Phil Dowd’s agenda.
I am not going to rehash everything that has been said about Clichy and Rosicky. Rosicky, is good at certain things and not so good at others – like scoring. Clichy does as someone said 95% of the stuff well, its that other 5% that causes us trouble.
I don’t believe in conspiracy theories or that refs have an agenda, but yesterday Fat Phil clearly seemed to have it in for Arsenal. It’s not the reason we lost but it is a case of where I think a ref was trying to prove a point. The sending off of Song was harsh. What was supposed to do he couldn’t get out of the way the player. Yes, it was a foul, not a yellow. There were calls that Sunderland were getting that similar calls Arsenal were not. To me that was the biggest thing that said Phil is trying to prove a point. Yes, he had to call the PK because it was so blatant. And I think he thought Steve Bruce was Fergie giving him until they score to blow the whistle.
My non-goats the rest of the team. Yeah the scoreline is not what we wanted, but I enver expected us to maintain another perfect record. But down to 10 men with the best player on the club on the bench and to actually have the better of the chances in the 2nd half is vast improvement for this club. Almunia was stellar. I never thought I would say that but he has steadily been showing that he understands how to play. Sure there is more to go but he has been impressive so far.
Sagna, is or is one of the top RBs inthe lead. The French connection in the middle is doing Yeoman work – KOosh was MOTM for the first half – he was every where.
Chamakh didn’t score but can he hold up the ball against bigger guys or what? He was excellent at brininging the other players in. People say we haven’t had that since Adebayor left. I’m sorry I don’t remember Adebuywhore being that good at it. Plus the Morroccan is quick.
Lot’s of criticism for Jack. Not sure it is valid. He had a pedestrian 1st half but his work rate in the second was stellar. In the first at times he tried to be too cute and it showed. He settled down and was in good form for the rest of the match.
Criticism of the ref is a bit off the mark. Song would not have gotten the first yellow if he had not slammed the ball into the ground … and the second is just smart play by an experienced CM taking advantage of a clumsy DM. It happens all over Europe every weekend. Not conspiratory about that.
Sunderland are at home, so ofcourse they are going to get a few decisions go their way … just as we do at home … and even at that Arsenal still got fewer cards.
The ref had nothing to do with the result.
As for Rosicky taking the penalty, Wenger says he expected Nasri to take the penalty and not Rosicky. However, since Nasri was the player fouled in the build-up, Rosicky decided it would be best if someone else took the penalty.
This is a fundamental belief that Wenger has always held. I’ve only seen once where an Arsenal player took the penalty after winning it. That was Fabregas against Barcelona back in the spring. Fabregas was the captain and it was his call as to whether he felt he could take the penalty. Even when Henry was at Arsenal, if he drew a foul, someone else always took the ensuing PK.
Well that’s a stupid practice if it it’s your best penalty taker who is fouled.
Yeah, its a ridiculous idea invented arbitrarily!
What exactly is the basis of that rule?
I read that Nasri didn’t take the PK because of some superstition. Wenger gave him a little talking to about it.
The truth is we don’t know what instructions Wenger gave to Denilson and Wilshere as far as where to play. Denilson may have been instructed to go on as an attacking midfielder. He may have gone on initially at DM and Wenger opted to switch them. Maybe the players made the adjustment on the pitch. Maybe Wilshere was smoked and couldn’t keep up that pace. Maybe one of the knocks Wilshere picked up prevented him running as much. We don’t know what decisions were made by whom so to make judgements based on presumptions can lead to confusion.
What we do know is that when you go down to ten men, there’s extra work to be done. I think everyone contributed to that extra work; namely Rosicky, Nasri, and Denilson. They did a shit-ton of running in that last half hour, trying their best to create another goal-scoring chance. Their on field leadership motivated Chamakh and Clichy. Who plays with that kind of swagger when they’re down to ten men? That’s why many of us became Arsenal fans. Those young men made Sunderland respect a ten-man Arsenal. Most other teams would have parked the bus.
This is one result and far from the end of the world. Despite our many injuries, to include two World Cup finalists, we’re still in second place with 99 more points to play for. I’m disappointed with the result but proud of the attitude and effort.
Sunderland didnt “respect” a ten-man Arsenal … they became desperate for an equalizer and they got it!
Art, I think we make it too hard for ourselves for all the reasons I’ve said way way too many times. I do apologise for saying the same things repeatedly – annoying I’m sure, particularly for those who don’t agree.
I’ve liked the French CBs, they seem to gel together. Kos attacks the high balls and Squil mops up. Together with Sagna they look good. I agree with all those who worry about Clichy. Clichy does 95% of things pretty well, it’s just the other 5% tends to be jaw droppingly bad and mission critical. We do have a couple of options, one is the obvious route of giving Gibbs more time, the other is to play Vermaelen at LB. Maybe a combo of the two options would work with Verme doing the LB thing when it’s a hard game ala Chelsea. Sadly, I doubt anything will change. So Clichy it probably is.
Repetition is the best way to teach the ignorant Kiwi, inthe end we will all learn not to disagree Kiwi ;-)
As often is the case your view on things Arsenal will determine your perspective on this game. The result is “in the book”; 1 point gained, 2 missed and an opportunity to bury the awkward ghosts from the past missed as well. But we did avoid a loss.
We all share the disappointment in the gutting nature of the lost result. It was horrible, the team had done well to play out the 1-0 lead until what should have been the end. Then we fluffed the lines.
There are positives to be found in individual performances and even in some combinations, but the result is really what counts. Winning points becomes harder not easier as the season progresses. So we want to knock over these games and accumulate points now if we are to have a meaningful shot at this title.
I’m still rather sceptical, and will likely remain this way until I see a good level of evidence to the contrary. This game was supposed to be part of that story after the heady results against the Blackburns, Boltons and Bragas. But at the end of the day we didn’t have the goods.
It was interesting to see the attack – a lucky goal for Cesc was all we could muster. We couldn’t even bury a penalty. So where was the much vaunted attack that knocked teams for 6 at The Emirates? Well, that’s what I’ve been saying. Judge the attack when we’re under the cosh, not when we stroke the ball about in the sun. When we have Chamakh, Arshavin and Fabregas on the pitch we’ve got three realistic goal outlets. Add to that less regular scorers like Nasri and Rosicky and we are ok – not great but ok. Once Fabregas and then Arshavin left the field we didn’t look terribly lethal. Chamakh toiled.
If we’d held on for the win we’d be praising the side. We didn’t. We succumbed again. Some will say it was nearly different and that’s true, yet the result is when the ref blows time. We need to get to the stage of delivering the result we need and the 3 points. If we can’t – there’s no title. This is such a re-run of recent seasons, great results against canon fodder and then we flatter to deceive.
Kiwi I must say I am amazed that you are even considering us winning the title. But I suppose it is not totally out of the question.
The game against Chelsea will give us a good idea of how much we have improved DF at least.
Hey Art,
I take it that lowering down expectation is prerequisite to be in Hippy Camp? :shock:
See my definition of a Hippie some threads back Armchair. There are no prequistes to being a Hippy other than not slating our team, manager and players at every opportunity.
As for lowering expectation, it’s not about what I think will happen rather that Kiwi is not what you would call a blind optimist so it is strange for me to hear Kiwi imply there is a possibility of us us winning the title. But of course there is :laugh:
Still we are better off than last season.
Last year, we beat Pool and lost to Blackburn and Sunderland.
This year, we beat Blackburn and drew to Pool and Sundy.
5 points vs 3. Should have been 7, but hey, at least a slight improvement.
Let us continue the good home form and make sure we don’t lose at Chelsea.
Ministry of Truth!!!
What happened to your Mongerism Nip? you sound oh so balanced right now ;-)
I simply call it as I see it.
Sound familiar? :laugh:
Having no emotional investment to the team helps. In the past years, result like this almost certain to ruin your weekend (to add salt to injury, ManU win :reallyangry: )
As for CM, we can blame Song, Deni or Jack, but the real culprit is Arsene “I want to grow my players” Wenger.
Consider this. The last CM Arsene has signed who actually crossed puberty was Gilberto in 2002. 8 years since we signed an experienced CM !!! Can you believe that ? Which side in the whole world would it? None, bar Arsenal.
Also, Arsene signs different kinds of players and throws them into DM. Song was supposed to be a CB, Deni is anything but a DM and Jack is clearly an AM. Diaby is somewhere in between. Ramsey too. But they all play in DM at times. While they learn and grow, Arsenal throw away games, lose points and end up 3rd/4th instead of 1st/2nd. How long is this going to happen? Probably till 2024 as Sachin says above.
If Song was suspended for the Chelsea game, how would you feel going into it with Deni and Jack as your DMs?
The other point is Cesc. When he is on the pitch, there is so much less pressure on the other two CM, because he can hold the ball so well. Sadly, neither Nasri nor Sicky can do the same. That is how important Cesc is to the side. We can do without him for a few games, but I doubt we can do well if he is out for a long time.
I always thought Cesc will leave next summer (as is typical with recent Arsenal captains), but now I don’t think Arsene can afford to let him leave. I don’t think we can replace him (even with Jack and Rambo in there). At least, not yet.
I am not saying that it is a bad thing to depend so much on one player. ManU depend on Roo so much. The subtle difference being Roo doesn’t want to leave. Cesc does.
Exactly the point I was making earlier in the thread and gameday chat. Wenger risks positive results so he can give the likes of Jack Wilshere game time I find that annoying.
Let us be honest. If we had held on for a win, all of us would be hailing the performance and character of the team.
So you got to give credit where it is due. The defence did superb barring the usual calamity moments from Clichy (which I have become used to by now). Mooney played way above his usual standard. Makh was excellent.
The midfield was the problem. Nasri and Arsh sucked big time. Once Cesc left, we were just not able to control possession even with Sicky. But Song and Jack at least held on until the sending off.
After that Sicky and Nasri did a pretty decent job of holding the ball. But it was always a big ask for Jack and Deni to hold the defensive midfield together.
Whatever you say, the turning point was Sicky’s miss. When you get a chance like that, you put it away. In the 07-08 season, there was a big debate about Sicky’s contribution. Some said that he only scored cherry on the top goals, while others claimed that he was a key player. Yesterday was a great chance for him to show what he was (especially carrying the captain’s armband). But he sadly failed. :(
Let us be honest. If we had held on for a win, all of us would be hailing the performance and character of the team.
————————————————————–
Exactly. I’m not going to let one bad bounce allowed by one player (Clichy) 15 seconds after stoppage time was up take away from the performance of the rest of the team.
But Clichy isnt exactly a calamity-virgin is he?
You and I know that this is something is extremely likely to be repeated a few more times this season.
Well I must have been watching a different game to Fred, because I thought Denilson was excellent when he came on. Offence is a better form of defence, and he was the one going forward occupying Sunderland defenders. Wilshere was the one who sat back.
I thought the whole midfield performed very well to retain possession in the second half when we were down to ten men.
Kos and Squillaci were also fantastic.
I’m chalking it down to one of those things.
@rocka,
Denilson played a fantastic game if he was brought in as the AM and we had 11 men on the field.
Alas, he was brought in to replace Song, a DM, to shore up the center in front of the back four because we were a man down.
That’s like you hiring a plumber to fix a leak at your house and an electrician shows up. never minding the fact that electricity and water doesn’t mix, you would throw the fucker out.
He did not do the job which he was brought in to do.
I disagree. As I said, Wilshere was the one that sat back and held. Or using your analogy, Wilshere = plumber.
If Denilson sat back and defended deeply also, all that would have done is to invite more pressure on the defence. (Why would you need two plumbers?)
Denilson was instrumental in Arsenal retaining as much possession as they did, which last time I checked, is the best way to prevent the opposition from scoring.
Rocka, we had TEN men with 10 minutes to go, and Wilshere is all of 18 years old playing DM for the fourth time ever.
Am sorry, there is no excuse not having TWO DMs considering the personnel.
Every SINGLE serious team in the world would have two men sitting in front of their CBs. Even Barca that we ape have Busquets and Xavi SITTING when they want to ease out the result.
The job of “occupying” the oppo belongs to Rosicky, Chamakh and Nasri.
Under no condition do you leave an 18 year old, 5ft 7in, newbie attacking midfielder ALONE, away from home, when we are one goal down with just a few minutes to full time.
That is suicide EVERY single day.
Its not like Nasri or Rosicky were covering and its not like Denilson is some athletic player who can sprint back in time. He is literally the slowest player in the team.
I really hope to god, Wenger does not share your kamikaze thinking …. oh wait a minute he does ! … never mind ….
This shit just reminds me of the 08/09 season when Fabregas and Denilson were starting in a two man midfield and Denilson was always bombing up front leaving Fabregas to more of the defending.
Yeah, that went veeery well …
As Nipuna said, if we hadn’t conceded a goal with the last kick of the game (which had nothing to do with Denilson), we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
Arsenal defended by retaining possession. Nasri, Rosicky and Chamakh were never going to be able do that on their own, with both Denilson and Wilshere sitting deep. One of them had to join in when required. As the game wore on Denilson took on this responsiblity, allowing Jack to concentrate on keeping it simple, and defend stoutly. In the circumstances (and with hindsight), it seemed the right thing.
I agree that Jack shouldn’t be playing DM, but that is a whole other discussion.
You do realize Sunderland came easily right thru the MIDDLE when they won the TWO corners in extra time that eventually led to the goal right???
Stronger more experienced team have a minimum of two or three mids guarding their defense in that scenario (even Barca!) but Arsenal ofcourse must re-invent the rules.
Yup, leaving an 18 year old newbie on a yellow card alone is a good idea!
Keep on the delusion.
Spot on Rocka. As I said earlier when we try to sit too deep we often invite pressure on us that we cannot handle.
As Wilshere was content in sitting back Denilson did us a great favour by being another attacking outlet, Arshavin had been subbed and of course Chamankh was on his own up front. Fred also seems to forget theat Deni’ defended when we didn’t have the ball too.
Sunderland were never dangerous enough in the 2nd half to put much pressure on our 10 men until we tried to defend in our own half. Denilson’ forward runs helped to ease the pressure off our team and he nearly fashioned a scoring opportunity out of one of them.
Fred give the boy a break
I just realised I repeated everything you said Arthur.
So we must be right ;-)
Had to run out at half time because of an untimely Theater and dinner date. Came back and watched the game without knowing the results and pissed in my pants twice, penalty and goal conceded some minute + of extra overtime.
Funny game of contrasting halves and fluctuating fortunes as Sunderland maintained 65% possession in the first and overran our midfield trio and their winger aides while creating little if any chances. In contrast, Arsenal looked assured at the back except for two boo boos by Mr. calamity and with our limited possession still managed to create the best chances.
Fab’s incredulous goal left me bemused, as Arsene would say, and left me with the feeling that someone above was on our side today. We probably will never see another one like that again in a million years.
We should have been at least 3 up within the first 5 minutes of the 2nd stanza but AA and Chamakh failed to deliver fairly easy chances. Once Song was unjustly sent off we actually seemed to boss the game and at no time did I feel like Sunderland was going to score.
A missed PK, extra overtime and an expected Clichy wild swing saw us drop 2 points and overall, that was probably a fair result. Like I said earlier today, there is something in this squad which does not allow us to play well away from home.
Chamakh and the defensive trio of Sagna, Squid and Cooch were my MOTM choices today. Cooch and Sagna were brilliant defensively and Squid quietly handled his business. Clichy was brilliant at times but I’m convinced he is suffering from early stage Alzheimer’s or multiple personality psychosis.
Rosicky should never have taken that PK. Oh well, another day in the roller coaster ride of being an AFC fan under Arsene Mark III.
Message from the Ministry of Truth:
today is more proof we have made progress. 2 years ago we needed a 90th min goal to save a point here.
Last year we lost. But today it was Sunderland that needed a 90th minute goal to tie it up.
So this means we are now unbeaten against Blackburn, Bolton and Sunderland.
I am so proud today that I am going to sign a further 10 year extension contract and Arsenal fans can now look forward to our league title in 2024.
Are you taking hibernation till ’24 Sachin? I’m afraid golf is going to my thing at that time that I don’t care much about football/soccer anymore. I’m honing my skill with Wii Golf at this moment. I figure I’ll be ready in time. :-D
No I can’t hibernate too long. I will be around :)
that wii golf is fun but some of those courses are baffling. I also had hoped to use that to hone my skill but decided to try the real courses instead as I would avoid having to hit the ball across 2-3 islands like in the wii version :)
Sometimes the flow of the game will have players take up different positions. This is especially true for a team that interchanges as frequently as Arsenal. Denilson moved where he was because that’s where the flow of the game dictated he go in order to get out of our half. Unfortunately, he was isolated and had few options. He took a very descent shot. Had he finished that shot, Arsenal are 2-0 up in injury time. Would we even be talking about this?
I was disappointed that Denilson missed the shot. I was disappointed that Rosicky missed the penalty. I was disappointed that Clichy kicked the ball against Koscielny. But I’m not mad at any of the players. I was happy with the way our guys still took the game to Sunderland instead of merely trying to survive. They showed some balls today. But it’s football and these disappointments happen occasionally even to the best teams.
I give a lot of credit to Sunderland. They’ve signed some descent players who worked hard today and never quit. They pressed our guys hard the whole game. I was happy with the swagger that Rosicky, Nasri, and Denilson showed when we went down a man. I was happy with Chamakh’s response when he realized that the Arsenal way was to win this game. The season is far from over. We’ve got a lot of players out injured. I was unhappy with the result but happy with the effort. There is no shame in picking up a point on the road and down to ten men.
What did we show yesterday that we havent shown in the last few years??
I actually agree with Joshuad here. In the years past we simply sucked at games like this. We were usually fortunate to take a point at a place like this. Today, the only reason we didn’t take all 3 points was more down to luck than anything else.
Part of the real problem is that over the years teams have lost their fear of us. So it wasn’t so much how today’s team played but the effect of years gone by that contributed to the result today. Teams have a certain believe playing against us (and I dare say even Man.ure) that they lack playing against Chel$ki.
I think today’s team – this season’s team – (based on this season’s games so far) has the potential to change that, and it’s on it’s way there as long as they don’t let the last minute goal today to derail them. I think the bulk of the frustration today is a spill over of seasons past and if we objectively look at today’s game we’ll see there’s an obvious difference to this season’s team (I’m not saying Denilson belongs anywhere in that team – but the good thing is, all things been equal, Denilson’s first team appearances should be pretty limited).
I realize I must be on some sort of cool-aid but I’m liking it.
The most ironic thing was that Denilson was mouthing off like an idiot after the Braga game about how this is Arsenal’s year and they were going to do this and that …. while Fabregas was urging caution.
Why do people are people like Denilson ever interviewed in the first place??
Its not good for someone like Fabregas to be watching this kind of performance from the stands … because he can then see the GAPING holes very clearly and wonder what the hell he is doing at the club.
We have ZERO chance of winning the league and our hopes this season rely solely on us fluking our way to the Champions League final at Wembley.
Fabregas.. and who the eff is Fabregas to look down on the club that made him a star..
Shiaat… the boy should feel privileged to be able seat in the stands of the Emirates. If he’d have stayed at barca he would have been on the bench at he most and become a nobody like Hleb.
Fabregas is a top 3 CM in Europe and the ONLY reason Arsenal is in the top four. Thats who Fabregas is.
If he had stayed at Barca, he would have only broken into the team at age 22 like Iniesta at worst.
If Busquets could break through Fabregas surely would. Barca take care of their Catalans.
Maybe, maybe not it’s all speculation.
The point is Fabregas has no business looking down on the club who made him a star.
He doesnt have to look down at the club. He just has to decide to leave the club.
I think he has done that already Fred.
rubbish goal to give up. pissed that is was after the four minutes. of course missed penalty was (among songs red card) the turning point.
looking at our fantasy league, wow. props to Poisend La Sagna 5th OVERALL?!?! keep it up.
Scenario Number 1:
Deep into regulation time, well after the 80th minute: Our defense gets the ball, and we play it around the middle line a bit, then Denilson is with the ball, he passes to Rosicky on the left touchline about 40 yards from the Sunderland goalline. Denilson then proceeds to run forward close to the top of the oppo’s box. Wilshere is in the box. Nasri is on the right. Chamakh is in between the box and the center circle on the same line as Rosicky. Clichy had overlapped and was ahead of Rosicky on the left.
Denilson, being the “defensive” midfielder here STILL decided to run to the box after passing. If Rosicky had been tackled and lost the ball only Sagna and the two CBs were behind.
This was with just a FEW minutes to end of an AWAY game with the score at only 1-0 and after already missing a penalty.
That is how fucking retarded the team is!
————————————————
Scenario Number 2:
91:45 minute: Denilson, the alleged DM, found himself alone with 3 defenders upfront for some reason. He decides to take them on and have a shot (which incidentally annoyed Wenger) instead of running out wide and wasting valuable seconds and allowing the defense and midfield to reset! This is INJURY time, AWAY with just 1 goal in it! The keeper quickly kicks the ball back into action and our defense and midfield have NO relief or reset moment.
Those two scenarios combined with the strong desire of our ALLEGED DMs to completely and naively abandon their posts underlines the structural deficiencies this team has.
With Fabregas out and the team not really clicking upfront would it have been too much to ask Song to just SIT with the defense and stop roaming around the pitch like a retard?!
We allegedly have two DMs, yet Wilshere the naive 18 year old is always above the center line … and Song is always running PAST Wilshere at every single opportunity he gets.
Those six goals against Braga have proved utterly and thoroughly meaningless now havent they.
Drop the scenarios our best DM today?
Denilson by a squaure mile…
objectivity my friend… objectivity ;-)
Funny how our “best DM” jogged leisurely as his man Zenden crossed for the equalizer.
Our best DM today is an absolute garbage “DM” … HURRAY!
Fred are you seriously trying to tell me Denilson could have stopped that cross? Or even worse Denilson was to blame for that goal?
Just six games into the season and already the signings / non-signings are dictating our destiny.
Imagine if we hadn’t signed Makh, who would have played striker today?
Imagine if we hadn’t sing Skil, how would Djo have coped with that aerial bombardment?
Now imagine if Mooney goes down in some game, what can happen?
As for CM, you don’t need to imagine, as you saw today what can happen if Song AND Diaby are missing. We are so short of numbers that we have to play Jack and Deni full time.
by the way, Arsh sucked today. So did Nasri until Song got sent off and suddenly, Nasri’s tendency to hold on to the ball longer than required became a blessing in disguise.
And Makh worked tirelessly. Hugely impressed with him.
We played sub-par today. But ALL teams play like shit from time to time, esp. away from home, and still find a way to win. In fact, that’s what people have been complaining about for years with Arsenal, these type of games. You can’t play well every game, and in those inevitable games which you play badly, you have to “find a way to win”. Man U and Chelsea have shit days on the road too, but they win anyways. No one expects them to go all season without playing poorly. But playing poorly doesn’t mean you have to lose.
Well, we played bad to day but still “found a way to win.” Problem is, after we found that way we decided no tot take it.
But there were encouraging signs too.
Kos and dynamite. Skil was super. Mooney was suddenly good (maybe Gallas leaving has helped him).
And we did very well despite going to 10 and missing Song and Cesc in midfield and having no options to sub young Jack.
Hope we practice penalties after this game.
Yes. Most aspects of today’s game were positive. The PK miss unfortunately has rendered them all null.
Clichy is still a retard, that’s one thing that definately hasn’t changed.
Just echoing Fred’s comments, been saying literally for years – our midfield is too slow, too naive. Not enough energy or presence to combat high intensity pressure.
But, that WANKER Arsene Wenger, still refuses to buy one, despite admitting he flirted with the idea. You have to understand my vitriol here ; we’ve needed a frickin central midfielder for three of four years, yet we go on with this ‘anemia” of our central spine…needlessly.
That sums Wenger up doesn’t it, flirting with fu*king logic, how about going through with it and acting on it? You might win something you stubborn git!
I am sick of Clichy too.
I know that Gibbs is not a better player, but I still don’t mind seeing Gibbs start and make mistakes.
I’m not sure that Gibbs isn’t a better player at this point. He certainly seems to offer more going forward and he seems to be a bit more of a physical presence in the defense than Clichy. Still prone to the odd mistake, but he’s still pretty young. Clichy is not that ol either, but he has reached the point where that can’t use that as an excuse.
Takes one to know one aye Maz ;-)
If Sicky scores that penalty, we win this game.
Plain and simple.
Great teams take the chances that come their way. Make the stupid ref kind of redundant.
We had such a chance today, but we failed to take it. :(
I agree completely. For me it all boils down to the PK miss. People don’t like to see things in such black and white terms. They prefer to say, “Oh, we never should have let the game get to a point where we were dependent on making a PK.” Well, guess what, Chelsea, Man U, Inter, Barca all have won games by converting single chances like that and we didn’t. Chelsea and Man U have won by converting PK’s. Even for champions like them, sometimes that is the only difference b/w a win and a draw, especially on the road.
It’s a fucking penalty kick. It’s like a field goal in American football or a free throw in basketball. Making it is the norm, the baseline average. Missing is the exception, and it shouldn’t happen.
Why do we need a TWO goal margin to win a game?? How about that?
The real problem is weakness and extremely poor defensive cover from midfield. There is no hiding that.
We already had a fluke goal. Chelsea would win this game 1-0 ALL day.
But to folks, we are still “real” title contenders!
Ojectivity my friend…objectivity…
Try it sometime it ain’t so bad ;-)
Your nigerian understanding of the term might differ from the real meaning of the word ;-)
Objectivity from my “random” Nigerian understanding in this context means viewing things as they are without bias.
Up and down game. A lot of debate on GDC. The finality of the matter is that this is the reason I cannot see past Chelsea winning the league. Lucky with Cesc’s goal, unlucky with theirs… blah blah blah, we should not leave things to chance and should’ve taken them out of it before then. Ah well…
Bit of a choker, considering the 4mins of extra time were well up. The penalty miss was effing annoying. And we still can’t shut up shop George Graham-style when we need to. But not totally discouraging considering we were down to 10 men.
On the plus side — Chamakh definitely holds up the ball well to bring the midfield into attack and the CBs are getting stronger. The commentator even said this sentence: “Commanding from Almunia.”!
Team defended excellently today, Almunia played exceptionally well. They did everything they had to do. They played with the type of brains and balls you need to have to win a game like this… but they didn’t win it. I blame Tomas Rocisky, and by extent, Arsene Wenger for allowing him to take the PK. Yes I know they say hindsight is 20/20, but my first reactions when I saw Rosicky step up to the spot were shock and surprise. Nasri or Chamakh would have been much better suited for the task.
You can point to many other things the team could have done better. Maybe Song could have avoided picking up the second yellow (kind of a lost cause w/ today’s ref though); maybe our attack could have been more fluid and better organized, thus taking some pressure off the defense and (hopefully) increasing the lead; maybe we shouldn’t have lost focus right at the death of the game. But all those are intangibles. Rosicky’s miss is tangible, definite. If Arsenal make that PK, they come away with 3 points.
As I asked on GDC, has anyone EVER seen Rosicky take a PK in their lives? I certainly never remember him doing it with Arsenal.
Defended well?
Sunderland had three absolutely FREE headers!
We could have used an EXPERIENCED DM today.
Not a garden gnome punk like Denilson or a rash, inexperienced man-child like Song, but a REAL DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER.
ALL our “defensive” midfielders figure themselves as creative midfielders! Enabled by Wenger ofcourse. Clowns the lot of them.
Song is a real DM. And yes, we defended well. If we hadn’t defended well, we would’ve let in a lot more goals, and earlier too after we went down to 10 men.
Again, say what you will about defending, or anything else that went on today, but when you get right down to it, had we converted the PK we would’ve won. End. Of. Story. Rosicky is to blame for missing the PK and Arsene is to blame for not appointing someone other than him to take it.
Again they had THREE free chances. We didnt concede earlier because they missed those.
Had we converted the penalty? Oh yeah lets go down that road.
Had THEY converted one of their 11 corners or their numerous chances or had they not conceded a FLUKE goal in the first place.
We are the ALLEGED title contenders here … we are the team that is supposed to prove our credentials. Sunderland are in it just to avoid relegation. Yet we go into “had we” territory.
Song is a trainee DM. At 22 and despite all the games he is still an incredibly inexperienced and brash DM. And that is why he got himself sent off so easily.
Even before then he was vacating his post frequently because he figures he is a Fabregas.
A lot of Arsenal fans dont actually know what a DM is supposed to be doing.
How come Wilshire the non existent and out of position DM didn’t get a mention, he stayed back but was of little impact defensively. Yet Denilson who played well gets your derision.
You simply can’t be objective can you.
If you were in the least bit objective you would not be deriding the DM because of their Df qualities because as Chicago said we DF well today. Apart from Clichy’ panicked clearance we would have won the game.
If you were objective you would be focusing on our lack of fluency in the MF which resulted in relatively few scoring opportunities. In other words it was our dynamics in attack that was our undoing in the end.
Song, the little credit he deserves did join the attack and try to make things happen. However I would have rather seen Wilshere do what he does best and attack and Song stay back as Chicago said is a proper DM only the obnoxious doubt it ;-)
Wilshere is 18 years old and has has started less than 10 EPL games. No, am not going to blame him for being inexperienced.
Focusing on lack of fluency in MF??? I have been asking for experienced additions in midfield consistently for years now … when the rest of you were talking about buying additional strikers.
You not gonna blame Wilshere for being inexperienced but you berate Song for bein g a mere 22 yr old man/boy. That stinks of double standards.
You were bitching about our DM in particular today Fred. Yet somehow you manage to miss out he obvious square peg in a round all to berate Denilson’ relatively faultless performance.
Who was talking about adding strikers? Name names please. I doubt you could name anymore than 3 names if any at all.
Song has been playing for FIVE years at Arsenal …. more responsibility is on his shoulder. At Wilshere’s age, Song was at about to get shipped out to Charlton. Wilshere should not be starting an away game for a top club. He isnt there yet.
Wilshere, Song and Diaby should all be learning from an experienced DM. Denilson should not even be at the club.
Oh and if we want to play the blame game we have to first start with the great man, Arsene Wenger. Firstly for continually playing Wilshere out of position for experience sake when he has better players suited for a DM role. Secondly for allowing or instructing his team to Df so deep at the end of the match. I know it is the obvious thing to do but it rarely works for us it just puts us under unneccesary pressure, leads to too many set peices like the fearful corners.
Clichy to blame for panicking and Rosicky for the penalty miss, Song for getting sent off, first and foremost.
However Nasri was relatively pants in the first half but far better in the 2nd Arshavin a bit better than Nasri in the first half until he was substituted. If he could have stayed on I think he may have ended scoring a goal out of nothing with a the better attitude we showed in the 2nd half, but then again…
Wilshere was out of position doesn’t seem to know where he is when he is instructed to play a game unnatural to him and sit back. Totally ineffective as a Df force and stiffled as it seems he was told not to join the attack.
None of our MF had a consistently creditable performance apart from Denilson. So why single him out and ignore your favourites. :monkey:
Actually I named Arshavin, Nasri, Clichy, Song and Rosicky …. read above.
Singling him out because he has THREE years more experience than his 18 year old partner Wilshere.
Fred where is the sense in that dude.
He (Denilson, the one you singled out unneccesarily)had a good performance so you single him out for being three years older than Jack Wilshere instead!
LOL! Dude, you are amazing :laugh:
If completely vacating his post repeatedly to bomb upfront, getting skinned twice and jogging leisurely by Zenden as he crossed for his equalizer is a “good performance” for a DM then Arsenal is really f&cked.
Sorry Fred I didn’t see him get skinned apart from once by the same El’… that was skinning Clichy all game. He was doing absolutely the right thing by joining the attack trying to get us the vital 2nd goal. Jack was covering as well.
As I asked below do you honestly believe Denilson could have got to Zenden to stop that cross?
Oh and you forgot to mention the times he won the ball or broke up the play. That’s why I accuse you of lacking objectivity.
Had we converted the penalty? Oh yeah lets go down that road.
Had THEY converted one of their 11 corners or their numerous chances or had they not conceded a FLUKE goal in the first place.
———————————————
Fred, PK’s are a gimme. You’re supposed to make them. Missing them is an abject failure. Ordinary in-game chances are the exact opposite: you’re expected to miss them. That’s why football is such a low-scoring sport. Even the best only convert a minority of the chances they get.
OK, then the gimme cancels out the fluke goal we scored.
About 20% of PKs are missed by the way.
Lastly, we should NOT need a two goal margin to see out a match. If we do then we have ZERO chance of actually competing for a title.
Dont you see the problem?
NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
This result is an almighty fuck you from Wenger FC to all the clowns that were singing after the midweek victory.
This team is a nonsensical team filled with chokers galore. Arshavin, Rosicky, Nasri, Clichy … name them.
Infact without that fluke Fabregas goal we would have lost this game.
The worst part is that, this was VERY PREDICTABLE! I sensed just after the Braga game that we were going to drop points and the Wenger babes prove me just right.
But am sure we are going to thrash West Brom or whoever next week and then the AKBs would tell us about how we have “turned the corner” and are now “mature”.
Fabregas must be disgusted!
I disagree. The team didn’t come away with the win, but I am not going to say that they are terrible b/c of 2 kicks in the entire game (the PK miss and Sunderland’s goal). The attack struggled I admit, but if you honestly think that we didn’t defend well today, then you either didn’t watch the game or refuse to be objective when watching Arsene’s team.
You might be right; maybe nothing has changed. But I need to see more evidence than 2 single kicks out of a 90 minute game before I decide one way or the other.
The two CBs played very, very well. That is what is confusing a lot of people. But the CB position is NOT the problem.
Am I the only person on here who sees giant HOLES in the middle of the midfield??
Nope. Midfield was the reason we didn’t really get playing for most of the game. Credit to Sunderland for pressing well and stopping us from playing our short passing game, but really, if we want to maintain that we’re the best in the league at it, we should have enough quality to overcome pressing. That said though, with the personnel available, I was happy with the lineup.
Now, we wait for our side to come up against Essien, Fat Frank and Mikel. I’m just hoping that Blackpool do a Hercules tomorrow.
I hope the new boys can cope with Bent’s runs behind today. That’s their major threat. We’ll see how it all works out.
Gyan starts on the bench with Wellbeck starting in his place.
In gameday chat ready for the match
Gotta love the Bundesliga.
Stuttgart smashed Monchengladbach 7-0 today.
Just a few weeks ago, Gladbach had thrashed Neverkusen 6-3.
And Koln held Bayern to 0-0 at the Allianz Arena.
This season will be more open than ever before.
Exact same lineup as midweek… No complaints if we perform to the same standards. Would’ve liked to see Sicky though. Ah well… First real test for our new CB’s coming up I would think as well.
It is the CL hangover, but Spurs recovered to win 3-1.
Spuds haven’t won a PL game in September in 9 year!! Interesting…
Spoke too soon… Gallas moving gingerly at the end. Injured a bit sooner than scheduled?
You jinx’d it OziK :pain:
Always knew I had the potential in me. 9 years of history wiped out by one jinx!
Exhibit B – No team has stopped Chelsea from scoring in their last 23 Premier League home games.
Spuds down by 1 :yes:
West Ham’s goal at Stoke couldn’t get more hilarious.
Delap tries to clear the ball but instead smacks Ryan Shawcross in the face and the ball falls to Parker who smacks it home while Shawcross is down on the ground.
Sweet.
I am happy that Cattermole is not playing.
Otherwise, we would have seen one more broken leg, one more game in which an opposition player is sent off and Catt would have seen his third red card of the game.
You guys are nuts with these emoticons.
Arsenal are going to crush Sunderland. Arsenal crushed them last year; just couldn’t score. And Sunderland aren’t as good as they were last season. No Cana. No Kenwyne Jones. No Cattermole. But they do have “The Mighty Titus” at the back. I actually like Bramble. If there are no injuries or red cards, I’m predicting a 0-3 beating. Actually, I believe the boys will score 4 tomorrow. We’ll see.
I agree with Josh’s observations. We are catching Sunderland at a very optimum time.
This year’s Arsenal team have the positional depth its been missing for the past three seasons. Then factor in the improving maturity of the younger players. Team spirit and confidence could not be better going into this match.
Comfortable win for Arsenal.
It’s well and good to be blind optimists on a message board, but I really hope you guys don’t bet these predictions. You won’t be able to afford internet access come December.
Personally I think people have read to much into the Liverpool game, it was never going to be easy to win. A resurgent Liverpool (good preseason performances), under a new manager, players having a lot to prove… it was never going to be easy.
Their manager is a great tactician, he set up that game so to ensure that they were not defeated. We were the better team although depleted but Liverpool decided to park the bus to some extent.
Anyway a draw at Anfield is always creditable. Neither I am convinced that we should get carried with the other performances either. I think the Chelsea game will tell us where we are at.
I must say I have a lot of respect for Kosch despitre the few mistakes he has made he has been commanding at the back. Need to look at Squilla in greater depth to make a proper assessment of him though. But generally they look like very astute signings, lets give our great manager some credit shall we :-D
So far everyone who has come in the team has played fairly well. Al still looks a bit untrustworthy but with the team seemingly Df better he will hopefully grow in confidence.
So the Hippies are on top right now :smug: , ain’t that right Mazza ;-)
Hippies are always on top in Sep. Sometimes even until Feb/Mar.
But come May, Mazza makes a late run and pips them to the post.
6 years and running.
:(
Yeah you called that right Nip. Thats the usual routine. But hey but let the Hippies be smug while they still can :-D
It seems like most of us are on the 2-1 brigade. In all honesty, I would love to see a clean sheet regardless of how many goals we score.
It’s somewhat difficult to figure out the starting 11 for this one but I do expect Rosicky to start over Samir and Vermaelen replacing Squillacci, with the rest of the team being the same as the last match.
Then again, I think I have only predicted squad selection correctly on 3 occasions over the past 4 years. Arsene and I just don’t seem to be on the same page :)
Away games will determine where we end up this season.
So far, Liverpool has been a disappointment but Blackburn was encouraging.
We need to keep it going. I fancy a 2-1 win.
• Sunderland have lost one of their last 12 league home games
• Arsenal have won two of their last nine league games in the north-east.
If we win up North, it will be a big score and a welcome sign of increased toughness in this team.
After the scrambled draw against Liverpool, it felt like nothing had changed. Since then, this team has shown signs of a deeper resolve and maturity. It no longer feels like a team that can be quite so utterly blown apart by Chelsea or Man U. Tomorrow will go some way to confirming if that’s true.
I fancy us to win 2-1.
We’re gonna :hammer: them. (I hope… I just wanted to take advantage of YAMA’s newest feature.)
I want to be watching how we control the tempo against Sunderland….
How many chances can we create in the match….
How does the defensive back four stay organized…..especially on the counter
and against set plays…..
This will be another black and blue battle.
– Clean sheet
– 3 points
– no injuries
I’ve read alot about this supposed formation change and I have to say I’m not really convinced anything has changed or if it has, I don’t think it’s very signifcant. Granted, against Liverpool it seemed as if Wilshere was paired with Diaby quite deep but I think it’s semantics really ; we have a three man midfield and that’s the nuts and bolts of it for me. I don’t think Denilson and Diaby’s ineptitude at tracking runners and staying “switched on” will suddenly improve three-fold because of a slight formation re-jig. It’s the players that give formations meaning and purpose and good players on the same wavelength(Wilshere and Fabregas) will create a synergistic proposition that renders such things relatively immaterial. Last season it was our new pressing system that people clasped onto, now it’s the 4-2-3-1. Whatever makes you feel better ;)
Tomorrow will be a good test. Hopefully we see the same movement from our midfield that we saw the other night, but an away fixture at a place like Sunderland will really show if the ‘Wilshere dimension’ can be relied upon week in week out. If it doesn’t, like I mentioned the other night, I think we’ll continue to flatter to deceive and Fabregas will cut a dejected figure ; wondering why no one is replicating the same movements that so invigorated him and the team against Braga.
Agree Mazza, but also disagree.
Agree that formations are dictated by the personnel and their ability to interpret the instructions of the coach.
This year though we are seeing for the first time where two MF’s are sharing defensive responsibilities in front of the back 4 and freeing up the AM to be an attacking floater. In fact, all 4 attackers are being given the license to roam and interchange freely, thus presenting an immense problem for defenders, especially if they try to man mark.
This is a big difference from last year when song was the only MF who made a creditable defensive effort in front of the back 4. This is also freeing up the wing backs to go forward more and play a higher line. Clichy and sagna’s heat map showed them near the half line for a great portion of the game whereas Song and Wilshere were slightly more withdrawn.
I am also noticing that the CB’s are moving out to the wings for wing back coverage and the DM’s are dropping into the center on defense.
To cut a long story short, I like the updated formation, regardless of whether we call it 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, etc. because it allows us to play to the strength of the personnel.
“Agree that formations are dictated by the personnel and their ability to interpret the instructions of the coach”
Yeah that’s it, a formation only becomes semantics when players do not have the ability or the discipline to follow the managers instruction.
As Carib said there are supposedly 2 DF CMs as opposed to 1 in the 4-3-3. However the fluidity in the way we play at times throws the formation in disarray I suspect that is rather by design than by compulsion.
The fact that Jack Wilshere HAS in fact being playing a Df mid role indicates that Arsene wants the option of the DMs joining in the attack when he or they deem it neccesary. Look how advanced Jack played in the 1st half of the Bolton game, he was constantly joining the attack. Song in the 2nd half of the Balckburn game also went forward alot. In the 2nd half of the Bolton game Jack was not so involved as it seems he was under instruction to sit in the DM area.
Our players are quite adaptable and our team play is dynamic and unpredictable. However we have in the past shown horrible Df vulnerablity with our cavalier approach in the past but an extra man in the DF mid can only help things improve. Not sure how long we can continue to play the “little thug”:zombiekiller: there before he gets sent off considering his previous. :fingersxd:
Since you are all emoticon fanatics – I think – look at the bottom of the page :yes:
Well, once again I was just a bit too eager with pre-match thoughts which now linger at the bottom of the previous thread….
Sunderland away is a big test for our team but I actually think we have a little advantage being stretched as much as we are (injury-wise) in that we’ll (likely) be putting out the same squad we played on Wednesday. And after a performance like that one, the group should be raring to get on any pitch, anywhere….Hopefully the cohesion of the group will trump any tiredness or the initial shock of Sunderland playing a more traditional “English” (fouling?) style against us…(Braga, for some reason, only fouled us in the box…)
And while there are some eerie similarities between tommorow’s match and last season’s similar fixture (RVP out, Chelsea looming…) I think we’re far better prepared and Sunderland are far worse off. Their MF “enforcers” are either gone (Canik) or suspended (Cattermole) and their creative MF, Andy Reid, and best defender, John Mensah, are both fitness doubts. With AA23 and MC29 firing nicely and Cesc entering “another dimension” I think we’ll be testing their (back-up) keeper quite a bit more than we did in last year’s loss. Like I said on the other thread, unless they score first (or keep a clean sheet through the 1st half) I think this should be a comfortable match for us.
Finally, I’d like to hear what people are thinking about our new formation, which appears to be a 4-2-3-1, with Song and Wilshere (at least while Diaby is out) playing the holding roles, with Denilson, so far, only being used as a late sub. I like it so far, and it seems like a very, very good idea to be collapsing the space in front of our new French CB combo. I do worry however, about the tendency to try to play the ball out of tight spots near our goal (esp. with the new personnel) and I feel that we shouldn’t be quite so afraid to put the ball out of play (i.e., give up throws and corners) given the height and aerial ability of Chamakh, Song, LK6 and Squillaci. I guess if we just score enough goals neither defensive strategy is TOO worrisome…. 8-) (eyes rollng behind dark glasses?)….
First of all, I will not even condescend to respond to the utter ramblings of a drunken fool, Fat Sam, who obviously had a dream and mistook it for reality.
As DAG said, Sunderland worries me as all away games do because we have yet to show we can perform away from the friendly confines of the Emirates. We are once again making our home field the fortress it used to be, but must translate this when we travel. There is really no excuse for our poor away form as most of the squad now have the experience of playing at these EPL stadiums.
It’s all in the mindset and our current squad seems to be a wee bit tougher and hungrier. Song, Sagna and our future captain TV have all shown that toughness in the past and with the coming of age of our little pit bull, Wilshere, and the addition of Koz, Squid and Chamakh we certainly have a lot more steel and determination on the field. Fab has finally become a man and is showing added fire and a very business like approach to winning.
2-1 to The Arsenal.
Here is a couple other reasons why this match must be won:
This week: Chelsea v Blackpool, Arsenal v Sunderland, United v Liverpool.
Chelsea likely to roll, United either draw or I think lose.
Following week: Arsenal v West Brom, Chelsea v Citeh, and United v Bolton
We should win, Chelsea draw or win, United draw or win.
The week of Oct 3 – the big one – Chelsea v Arsenal (at the bridge).
We could feasibly go into the Bridge drawn with Chelsea. At the worst 2-5 points down. If things continue as is – imagine the build up for a match like that in October. I would seriously have to find a group of Arsenal supporters to go watch it with.
So that being said – we need to win.
Oh and fat Sam is an ass.
Eh, I am going to try not to build up the Chelsea match at all, no matter what happens b/w now and then. I built up last year’s, which was in November, and we got destroyed. And it’s at the Bridge, so even if the team loses I wouldn’t really fault them unless it was a humiliation.
As for the match I think we will win. The team seams to be riding a confidence high after a number of blowout victories. Momentum is something this team doesn’t always have, but I feel it right now, and hopefully the players do to. Perhaps I’m being to optimistic, as in our 2 away matches thus far we have 3 goals for and 2 against (compared to a scoreline of 16-1 at home), and 3 of our 5 opponents to date have finished with 10 men. Whatever, you only need to win by 1 to get the 3 pts.
If they can pull off the win at a place where they suffered such a disheartening defeat a season ago, it will do wonders for their confidence, which would subsequently increase even more. (Which would obviously make them more likely to take apart their fiercest rivals on the road next week, which would in turn cause team confidence and morale to skyrocket.)
Sorry, this is off topic but I really can’t help myself. More bullshit from fucking Fat Sam:
“I’m not suited to Bolton or Blackburn, I would be more suited to Inter Milan or Real Madrid.
It wouldn’t be a problem to me to go and manage those clubs because I would win the double or the league every time.
Give me Manchester United or Chelsea and I would do the same, it wouldn’t be a problem.
It’s not where I’m suited to, it’s just where I’ve been for most of the time.
It’s not a problem to take me into the higher reaches of the Champions League or Premier League and would make my job a lot easier in winning it.”
Besides the obvious idiocy of this statement, how does this make the supporters feel? What kind of a professional comes out and says he’s not suited for the club he’s at, says that the club isn’t good enough for him? The supporters pay the money that pays his wages and he has the nerve to say “I’m not suited to Bolton or Blackburn, I would be more suited to Inter Milan or Real Madrid.”
If I was a Blackburn supporter I’d tell him to go fuck off to Inter and see what kind of response they give him.
It’s hilarious!!