F***ing Diaby F***ing Dowd F***ing Arsenal . . . THANK YOU WOLVES!!!!
It’s been 24 hours since that shit storm of match graced my television screen. It’s been less than that then the words above were heard all around for everyone to hear – in less restrained tones than on this site.
I’ve spent some time thinking about the match and I take it from two tacks – I will first start with my rational tack. I am as angry as everyone is about this match. In simple terms even down to 10 men you don’t piss away a 4-0 lead. 4-2 okay, even 4-3 I could live with.
So on the rational side (I am doing this because I might as well give fodder to the hate brigade early on) – this match hinged on two decisions, maybe three, the first, Phil Dowd’s missed call (let’s call it that for politeness sake) on Joey Barton’s original tackle on Abou Diaby. Frankly he goes in with studs up and nearly breaks Diaby’s ankle. Fat Phil missed it pure and simple. Or he just held it in his pocket, because he is Joey Barton afterall and he should get away with that kind of stuff.
The second decision was Diaby’s decision to act like a petulant child. On the surface you can’t blame the kid for wanting to take Barton’s head off. I probably would’ve too but he is a professional footballer and on the pitch when your team needs you to keep your head on, you keep your bloody head on. Diaby who was having a pretty decent game in the midfield, left the pitch and left the midfield left wide open. Now on the surface this isn’t bad, because Djourou and Koscielny could keep the middle tiddy. Ah, but there is the problem. Djourou goes off at the start of the half and it brings on Squillaci who, we all agree is not meant to be a partner with Koscielny.
The Djourour-Koscileny partnership works because Koscileny cleans up the ground play while he leave the aerial stuff to Djourou. Squillaci can do neither of what either of these boys are doing. We were severely weakened in the middle and in defence.
The third bad decision was the second PK. It was about as soft as the come. I am not sure what Dowd is thinking here and who he calls the penalty was unclear. Was it Rosicky? Was it Koscielny? It is never clear and frankly I am not sure what the offence was that caused the call. And if you watch the goal again, the ball wasn’t even playable by the attacking player. In my opinion another bad call by Fat Phil.
I’d go as far to say as I have watched the goals over again and frankly the first PK was also weak in my opinion but there is a slight tug from Koscielny on the attacker even though he clearly gets ball and clears it from danger first.
There is a fourth decision I am curious about and is the sequence after the second goal when Szczesny keeps the ball – as do most keepers in such situations and Barton face plants him to the pitch – again why doesn’t Barton go off here. If you are going to send Diaby off (and rightly so) for pushing Barton to the ground you have to do the same when Barton pushes Szczesny to the ground.
Look I don’t buy into all the consipiracy theories about refs. But you’d be hard pressed not to find a lot of Arsenal fans who think Dowd overly called the match in favour of the home side, especially after the first half. That being said (and now for my anger part of it) you don’t come out play 45 minutes of some of the best football this group of players has played in a long while (maybe ever) and then come out and basically play 45 minutes of absolute shit. 10 men should hold down a 4 point lead.
And that is what is annoying about this team I love so much – that they can come out and play 45 minutes – hell they played beautifully for the first 15 minutes. The where championship quality that first half and relegation quality that second half.
As can be expected, we all went apeshit. Some have reacted more positively than others. And if you had to take any positives away its this – we didn’t lose (which I wasn’t sure we weren’t going to do) and we actually gained a point on United who after all their poor performances away from Old Trafford finally lost. And two great things happened – Arsenal fans have continued hope for the season (except some of the so-called realists) and our one true greatest moment in league history is preserved – our invinicible season remains in tact. So to that I thank you Mick McCarthy and Wolves. And we’ll see you on the weekend.
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Virtually all of what you articulate is astonishingly accurate and that makes me ponder why I hadn’t looked at this with this light before. Your article truly did switch the light on for me as far as this specific subject matter goes. Nevertheless there is one issue I am not really too comfortable with and while I make an effort to reconcile that with the main idea of your position, let me see what the rest of the readers have to say.Nicely done.
A bit of wheel-spinning happening on this thread.
Whilst the two-camp concept is a tad simpleton it does reflect where the Arsenal support-base (and YAMA) is at present. For those that still believe Wenger is ‘the way’ all events are filtered through that lense. Similarly, if you think Wenger has passed his ‘use-by date’ then nothing other than success will convince you to the contrary. We can put forward our rationale, even passionately, but ultimately people come to ‘positions’ in their own time.
@Kiwi,
aha kiwi the chicken before the egg, the two camp concept as you rightly describe it was always a product or refection of the division of the Arsenal support base within AA and beyond.
I always thought the labelling was a harmless bit of fun… at first, but i still don’t fully appreciate why some people find the label doom monger so offensive.
Kiwi I thought only Jesus is “the way” ;-) I honestly don’t think there is a poster on this site that hasn’t criticised Arsene at some time Hippies and AKBs included. We are all objective enough to see what appears to be right or what appears to be wrong in the decisions he makes. I don’t agree that the supporters who choose to support our manager are particularly biased in outlook but rather choose to defend him and THE TEAM against what is more often than not unjust criticism.
However I do think Mongers are almost morbidly biased and negative against their own team. They often sound like opposition supporters in the heat of their slander. Arsenal will simply never be good enough for them until can be as successful as Barcelona.
Arsenal is a CL constant we get there on the back of 38 games of hard work, we deserve to be there one of the top clubs in Europe. All we need are a few trophies again and we would have already had some of those had it not been for a bit of bad luck here and there.
Arsene is a great manager despite his mistakes, why not applaud him for the good he has done and continues to do. He is manager of the decade after all.
Wonderful article Fred by Xavi. We get so much more than the normal media soundbite. The player presents as intelligent, honest and reasonable. Rare insight into the mind of an A-grade Barca footballer. Loved it.
@Fred
starting line up (field players) v. Newcastle, avg. age was 24.4 not 25.5. And if Nasri had not been injured, Arshavin would have been sitting on the bench leaving the average age at 23.8 yrs.
then our 20 yr old keeper – 20 yrs old. Others seeing regular playing time: Bendtner – 23; Gibbs – 21; Song – 23; Nasri – 23; Denilson – 22. Ramsey – 21
Young team by any standards.
Some aspects of the game aren’t learned or applied until you gain maturity. A player at 16 can achieve more on the pitch tactically than a 13 year old. My point about 26 yrs of age v. 23.
The Barca players you mention are the exception to the rule and exceptions will always achieve early results, like Cesc. Young teams (many times) lack maturity to handle pressure situations. That was my point.
You say this match v. Wolves – a win proves nothing. Really? Any team that has beaten the opponent above you in the standings, you take the opponent seriously, especially as I pointed out that ManU & City play each other and either or both will drop points. For Arsenal to pick up 3 points restores confidence.
Our club does not have financial troubles (nor did I bring it up), because those that are steering the ship have a sense of responsibility to avoid careless spending. You select a manager that imparts a vision for your club, and the board supports or has bought into his plan. The plan doesn’t get changed every 6 month’s when the transfer window opens up.
We have a 25-player roster and improved depth over previous seasons.
in addition:
2-3 years ago, many fans questioned why the club signed Song. Did you describe Song (then) as a clown or did you use the word retarded?
Djourou, 2 years ago – no fan brought up his name as a player of substance for our future. No one missed him last year. Wow, the opportunity for playing time – we can see why the manager selected this youngster. If we still had Gallas, Toure, Campbell and a healthy Vermelen, where would Djourou be in the pecking order?
As beneficial as Song and Djourou are contributing now, Diaby has an attacking talent that sets him apart from anyone on our club. Injury has set back his development, but it will evolve, not if, but when.
You see a youngster with a special talent to play this game. Through years of scripted training and matches you expose him to new ideas and encourage him to take the risk in matches. For me this is managing. Then there are manager types that need an owner with deep pockets to solve their managing deficiencies.
@Arsession,
Kumbaya, my Wenger, Kumbaya, Kumbaya … oh, oh, oh …..
1) Again, the average age of EVERY outfield player who played. So I guess you wish to discount the ages of Squilaci, Eboue and Rosicky hey? Turns out those three were all on the pitch when we collapsed! The average age of the team that played was 25.5, the average age of the team that ended the game was 25.9! Facts, dont hurt you know.
Also, you still have not addressed why you are giving AGE as an excuse. Do you give illogical excuses like this at YOUR work???
2) Please name the 25 players we have – so that the “depth” can be proven. Everyone must obey the laws of gravity whether we believe in it or not and as such AKBs must accept FACTs.
Your next comment in response to this MUST name the 25 players we have in our squad or you dont have a leg to stand on (not that your current argument has any).
3) RE: Song. Actually I was one of the few on here who has always supported Song …. except for the brief time when he was abandoning his DM role. I was the LONE person on here calling for Song as the DM in the fall of 2008 ahead of Denilshit.
That said, what does your nonsense argument point about Song and Djorou have to do with the current problem of depth and quality.
4) What special talent does Denilshit or Eboue, etc have? What exactly is so earthshakingly grand about what Song and Djorou do?? In case you haven’t realized, you do not need an owner with deep pockets to buy bolster the squad a bit, get in a defensive coach and get a proper defensive drill running. Again, your false argument points are quite pathetic.
5) In your world, Arsenal as a club should put back its ambitions and potential so that some random players MIGHT come good (without competition) while we go trophyless??? Even though I have just shown you proof that NONE of these ungrateful and useless players that we are CARRYING is ever going to stay loyal to the club???
Incase you havent realized, these players talk OPENLY about their DREAMS of playing for OTHER clubs “better” than Arsenal.
Please get real.
Agree in most part Arsesession, but some of us, including myself have been singing the praises of Song and DJ for many years, even when it was not the most popular thing to do.
I was touting Song on AA even before Arsene was forced to play him as a DM because no one else was available.
Like you, I also believe that Diaby possesses special qualities which could see him as a world class player if he is able to overcome his constant injuries and gets sustained runs in the lineup.
Very interesting article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/11/xavi-barcelona-spain-interview?CMP=twt_gu
A few interesting points ….
Q: “Arsenal play great football, Arsène Wenger is a hugely respected coach, but they’ve not won anything for years. Could that happen at Barcelona?”
A: “Almost impossible. If you go two years without winning, everything has to change. But you change names, not identity. The philosophy can’t be lost.”
E. X. A. C. T. L. Y. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The attacking philosophy and the identity of the club must remain but the FAILED individuals must go. Commonsense.
———————————————————————————
Xavi: “Our model was imposed by [Johan] Cruyff; it’s an Ajax model.”
Nothing like a nice, little acknowledgement …. brings tears to the eyes of this old Amsterdamer ….. I wish people recognised and respected the Ajax imprint more ….. rather than make up claptrap phrases like “Wengerball”.
Diaby is LAUGHABLE as Fred noted below.
He prefers Barcelona over Real Madrid.
Really?
That’s nice. You can’t even start regularly at Arsenal.
If EITHER want Diaby, I wouldn’t mind us selling him for 1 Million GPB.
or on a FREE really… (but we have to make money, so we wont’ do that)
If we can package him with Cesc, that’d be great.
I agree with Fred… in that even our own players don’t take the club seriously. Completely a stepping stone.
That, is why some teams prefer to OVERPAY for British talent. You can view it as stupid, but though its a gamble, these British players often don’t view United or Chelsea as a way to get to the club they really want to be at.
Have to have some Brit players in the squad… that you can build around… it just makes sense.
Blockhead Diaby would like to play for Barca in the near future!
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/878663/abou-diaby-would-prefer-barcelona-move-over-real-madrid?cc=5901
Hahahahhahahaha … some hilarious sh%t!
Nasri also said pretty much the same thing last year.
So if by some massive and unlikely luck Diaby hits a rich vein of form for half or a full season, he WILL bail out on us ASAP.
After training them and waiting on them for YEARS, the moment they get any good, they BAIL out on us! Just the same way Fabregas AND Nasri will do this summer.
Same with EVERY single one of our players. Even our idiot, imbecile players dont dream of playing for us! Nobody dreams of having Arsenal as the final destination – where one will win and reach the peak of his career. The only players who dream of playing for Arsenal are 14 year olds who need to get playing time at a STEPPING STONE club! Wenger FC is just the drive-way to the real destination. That is what the club has been reduced to.
————————————————————–
And the AKBs sing “Kumbaya, my lord Wenger, Kumbaya” …. swinging their shoulders from side to side in unison and in hippie delight …
@Fred,
a. We all knew he would want to return to his native Barcelona one day. This is no reflection on Arsenal.
or
b. A lot of 12 year-olds dream of playing for Barca.
Until we start winning hardware again, most of our top players will want to go to a team which actually does have recent Cups displayed in their trophy case.
It’s just the nature of the beast.
@Fred,
Our very own scooby doo needs to get a clue.
@Mazza,
Sure he needs to get a clue, he is so dumb he doesnt know he will never play for Barca. But guess what, he could luckily hit a rich vein of form, score some long range goals and fake a Paddy Vieira for a few months and fool the entire continent. A lot of mediocre players have done it before. Mind you the chances are less than 1 in 1000 … but if it does happen he will NOT be loyal to the club that has wasted all these years on him. And that just goes against the tales of the good things that await us when this bunch of charlatans “get older”.
Am still waiting for an AKB to break down this phenomenon for me.
@Mazza,
While you’re here, Maz, and talking of people who saw what was coming…
Like Fred above, I definitely remember arguing with you 4/5 years ago. Making the same old, lame blind Wengerism arguments.
It didn’t take me long to see, but you really deserve credit, man. You were the first with the crystal ball. Definitely the first I recall who said the Emperor wore no clothes.
In fact, I went back into the AA archives and found this….
“Mazza:
November 10th, 2005 at 0:344
Fire Wenger! He’s a stubborn, arrogant bastard who is so far up his own arse his intransigence will become a lead weight on our future prospects of actually winning anything. No matter how good the profit picture gets!!! I also fully expect him to have an affair with a French hip hop artist within the next 5 years!!!
Cunt!!!”
You saw it all coming, Maz. Props.
(And you really did say ‘Cunt’ a lot.)
@vibe4arsenal,
To be fair, and not blowing my own trumpet, I think the hip hop artist affair is the only thing I didn’t forecast back in those wild “everyone’s a cunt” days of AA. Ryecatcher, Curtismo, VillageGunner, Fred, Danny T….. had hilarious arguments with all of em.
I’ve already released alot of my ire about the direction Arsene was/is taking us, so I leave it to Fred to carry the torch, and a fine job he’s doing too ;)
@Mazza, dont forget LoveG!
@Mazza,
LOL
@Fred, all too true.
I have been saying for YEARS that Arsenal is simply a FEEDER CLUB for Barcelona… a SELLING CLUB.
When you sell off your BEST PLAYERS repeatedly, because the club can make a nice tidy profit… everybody knows that your best players can be had.
It also tells the players at the club the same thing… that the clubs motives are PROFITS before winning. So, yes, why not use the Arsenal to get playing time, increase your value, and move on to a club that wants to WIN.
I wish Wenger would go back to France, maybe PSG… he’d be good there. No real pressure to win, makes them a contender, makes the club money… thats nice.
@Fred, all too true.
I have been saying for YEARS that Arsenal is simply a FEEDER CLUB for Barcelona… a SELLING CLUB.
When you sell off your BEST PLAYERS repeatedly, because the club can make a nice tidy profit… everybody knows that your best players can be had.
It also tells the players at the club the same thing… that the clubs motives are PROFITS before winning. So, yes, why not use the Arsenal to get playing time, increase your value, and move on to a club that wants to WIN.
I wish Wenger would go back to France, maybe PSG… he’d be good there. No real pressure to win, makes them a contender, makes the club money… thats nice.
@Fred,
That last paragraph was hilarious I have to applaud I couldn’t help but laugh.. But didn’t we end up a point closer to the summit after all :-) Why all the mongerism?
We are never going to be Barca or Ajax but we will do things the Wenger way until he chooses to quit that’s the privilege you get as manager of the decade :-)
Kumbaya my lord Kumbuya
oh lord kumbuyaaaa
Don’t worry be Hippie :-)
@ Fred
We are a young club…..most of the players are years away from reaching their prime years……and young players are likely to give up leads, make crucial mistakes in extra time…….and haven’t learned how to put away teams…….or protect leads.
From your years of coaching/managing wouldn’t you agree?
The club has gone through many trophy droughts in its history, longer than 6 years. Considering the move to the Emirates, the financial climate……the club’s priority might not match your expectation.
Stag figured it our months ago.
@Arsession,
You AKBs … smh … hold on lemme get out by baseball bat and knock this outta the pack ……..
1) Young club? By that I take it you mean young squad. The squad is not as young as you think. Even the team that came out was close for the debacle last weekend had an average outfield age of 25.5. That is not as young as you would like to claim – especially considering the amount of football they have played.
Also, why give the excuse of age. Whose “fault” is it that the team is filled with young players. Does Busquets, Messi, Pedro and co. excuse their age? At other club’s if you are in the team and play poorly you get booed IN THE STADIUM … nobody gives two f^&*s about your age. Again 25.5 is NOT young.
2) “From your years of coaching/managing wouldnt you agree?”
Another widely discredited and completely nonsensical argument. For the upteempth time, please inform us, realists, who is entitled to criticize the manager. By your retarded standards ONLY Alex Ferguson is entitled. Not even the Arsenal board has the right to sack Wenger with this view eh?. Freaking AKB cultists! ;-)
3) Bringing up the false arguments about financial troubles – by talking about the move to the Emirates. Complete utter BS. The books finances are OPEN. Arsenal has made record profits for the last FOUR years straight. Remember … profit is the amount left over AFTER stadium installment payments have been made.
Not only is the club charging the HIGHEST ticket prices in the WORLD, it is also one of the most profitable clubs AND in addition to that it has made a 50 million pounds profit on transfers (players sold v. players bought) ALONE!
How about bringing up an defensive argument point that isnt totally cuckoo for a change? These three points have been destroyed for over two years now.
Remember, two & half years ago (before Wenger started Denilson in midfield) I was actually a Wenger sympathizer …. arguing with Mazza, DannyT, Stagg and co. on the old AA boards …. defending our “young boys” and our “lack of funds” …… so I know all these empty arguments, I have used them before myself!
Think of something new, man.
@ jroy:
Of all the arguments here yours is the most dumbfounding.
We do not know whether strengthening the squad a bit in terms of quality and quantity would have helped? Really?
You are so deep in it you think we might have been worse off having more than 16-18 players? We could have been worse off by having greater depth and quality in DM, CB, GK, worse off with a defensive coach?
You take the cake! Incredible!
@Fred, of course you are dumbfounded, that is why you asked questions in way that imply i have said something i have not. no, i never said having more depth or better quality players wouldn’t be desirable or that we would be worse off some how. you must have missed the part where i agreed with you, that doing those things would SEEM to make sense. AW didn’t do that. was he right or wrong? we can’t know because you can’t test both of those things like in some sort of parallel universe to KNOW. we ASSUME that it is likely that we would be better off. but because it didn’t happen we can’t say if it would have had a material impact on our results. there are a probably a million scearios where it would help and a million where it wouldn’t.
the whole point of my posts was to an attempt to demonstrate that the point of view you are arguing can never be proven for certain. all we can do see what happens based on decisions that are actually made and implemented and question ex-post if they were good or poor decisions. but proposing alternative solutions and speculating on what might happen had those been implemented only lead to “what ifs”.
last example: three years ago suppose we fired AW and brought in JM and spent 100 million quid “re-building” and we finished 3, 1, and 2 + a semi-final in CL. in this thought experimint can we know if we would we have had the same or different results over the same time period if AW had stayed in charge with his policies? do you see how those are mutually exculsive? think quantum mechanics and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle; you can’t know (measure) BOTH with certainty! or if you like (again from quantum mechanics) wave-particle duality; you say AFC behaves like a wave others say it looks like a particle. both are observing the same thing but measuring it in two different ways, but you can’t measure both simultaneously.
that said, AW has been particularly frustrating to me personally over the last several seasons. but since i have no control over his decisions, i play the hand i’m dealt (to really mix metaphors) and hope for the best.
@vibe4arsenal
you are correct that not winning is proof that AW has not been successful (by your definition), but you can’t prove that doing something else would have been successful. this is sort of similar to type II error in statistical hypothesis testing and it is the error of excesive skepticism.
@Fred, of course you are dumbfounded that is why you asked questions in way that imply i have said somethingi have not. no, i never said having more depth or better quality players wouldn’t be desirable or that we would be worse off some how. you must have missed the part where i agreed with you, that doing those things would SEEM to make sense. AW didn’t do that. was he right or wrong? we can’t know because you can’t test both of those things like in some sort of parallel universe to KNOW. we ASSUME that it is likely that we would be better off. but because it didn’t happen we can’t say if it would have had a material impact on our results. there are a probably a million scearios where it would help and a million where it wouldn’t.
the whole point of my posts was to an attempt to demonstrate that the point of view you are arguing can never be proven for certain. all we can do see what happens based on decisions that are actually made and implemented and question ex-post if they were good or poor decisions. but proposing alternative solutions and speculating on what might happen had those been implemented only lead to “what ifs”.
last example: three years ago suppose we fired AW and brought in JM and spent 100 million quid “re-building” and we finished 3, 1, and 2 + a semi-final in CL. in this thought experimint can we know if we would we have had the same or different results over the same time period if AW had stayed in charge with his policies? do you see how those are mutually exculsive? think quantum mechanics and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle; you can’t know (measure) BOTH with certainty! or if you like (again from quantum mechanics) wave-particle duality; you say AFC behaves like a wave others say it looks like a particle. both are observing the same thing but measuring it in two different ways, but you can’t measure both simultaneously.
that said, AW has been particularly frustrating to me personally over the last several seasons. but since i have no control over his decisions, i play the hand i’m dealt (to really mix metaphors) and hope for the best.
@jroybower,
Oh please about spending 100 million on new players. That is a ridiculously false argument – showing your deeply illogical bias. So because ANOTHER club spends 75 million on two players, WE can not spend 20 million on two or three? Explain that logic.
Wenger does NOT need to spend 100 million to buy a CB, DM, GK. He doesnt need 100 million to hire a defensive coach or have a competent defensive setup.
This AKB movement is like a pseudo religion to a lot of people. Not any better than scientology or some other random cult.
@Fred, do you EVER read what is said or do you skim it and interpret it into your own vision of the world?!?!?
i didn’t say anything about Chelsea spending money or use it as an excuse for not investing in the squad or compare us to them. you are taking the 100 million quid out of context and mis-quoting, something you have a habit of doing. i used the 100M as part of a larger example of a new manager coming in and spending money to “fix things”, the 100 is arbitrary. it was used as an illustration of how you can’t test going down two paths at the same time. the events are mutually exclusive.
again i will point out that i AGREE with you that it would have been highly logical to bring in cover for some critical positions regardless if we spent 0 or 100. we didn’t. now we can never know how the sceario WE advocate for would have played out. it probably would be better than the status quo, but you can’t prove that it would!
not sure what AKB refers to? me?!? i’m not defending AW or for that matter AKB or your views. i’m mearly suggesting that the side you’ve chosen can’t be proven one way or another.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQNHBUqfLnM
Fred,
no one is excusing the team for giving up the 4 goal lead. If our performance results in a dubious record……so what. It is only 1 match. What is the difference in Tiote goal and Danny Rose goal? It happens……once in a player’s career.
Calls or non-calls have a direct baring on any match. No conspiracy, just fact.
Had an early yellow card been issued to Barton for the Arshavin tackle, how would that have affected Barton’s tackling for the balance of the match? Early yellow always put the brakes on a players aggression. Not issuing a card only gave Barton more leeway for his testing the patience of Dowd.
If you describe Barton’s tackle on Diaby as studs down and feet on ground then maybe you forgot about the term reckless tackle…….pretty much an automatic yellow or red card.
To say these type of tackles are in the PL all the time is true, but there are officials that make the calls correctly in the PL – Newcastle was issued only 1 yellow at end of match on Nolan……90 minutes……1 yellow…..3 yellow’s and red for Arsenal….that is Phil Dowd.
12 year old reaction…….
here is a player whose livelihood is dependent on his legs. You don’t like him. Had it been Cesc, you would have been defending his *ss. We see pushing all the time in the league…….and most competent officials will break up the two players and cool down tempers……..maybe a yellow. Like I said you don’t like this player and so putting him down comes easy for you.
Weak penalty (Barton’s 2nd)…….some of the best players in every major league send the ball down the middle…….they study the keepers previous tendencies prior to the match, make their approach, waiting for the dive and then send the ball down the middle…….Giggs, Ronaldo, even Drogba.
The result was disappointing……but in the end, it was just another match in a long season. Even the invincibles had disappointing performances……or maybe its selective memory for some.
@Arsession,
1) I did not use the phrase 12 year old reaction, DAG did …. so I have no idea what you are responding to me about that for.
2) How on EARTH do you know Tiote’s goal was a fluke?? If Van Persie had scored it would it still have been a fluke?? An opposing player shot the ball and scored … and you are giving that as an excuse …… you are freaking kidding me!
3) You have absolutely NO IDEA what an early yellow would have done to Barton. He might have then become angry and scored a first half hattrick, crumbled and turned to ashes or just played the exact same way. You have NO IDEA what would have happend. Again, pathetic excuse.
4) DAG was arguing that it was a weak penalty to be called. Nobody on this page has argued about the kick itself, so I have no idea why you are going there.
Lastly, NO, the invincibles never humiliated themselves and the club as strongly and as often as this team, so dont smear past glory with present disaster.
@Fred, apologize for giving the 12 yr old tag to you……still adjusting to the new response sequence……but my other remarks about your feelings toward this player are well documented……as is my remark about his career/lively-hood.
Its Barton at the center of the controversy……..he is not the innocent victim to be defended. His b/w jersey stripes are fitting prison garb.
re: Tiote goal
players name is unimportant…….it could have been Clichy or Evra or Cesc or DeJong or Carrick ………….- its a fluke. Similar to vP volley / goal against Charlton…….yes, a fluke.
re: early yellow to Barton
you’re right – I don’t know NOR can you disprove, but my point in the comments was to support the main views how the referee’s blind eye was so obvious – two standards for the same foul…….and I didn’t even bring up all of the fouls he called against Newcastle where Dowd should have played the advantage for Arsneal, but stopped play when it was an obvious advantage for Newcastle.
re: weak penalty
…yet both commentators admitted that the call was soft (both penalties)……rare to see that type of contact result in a PK. You don’t agree, thats your take.
These are not intended to be excuses. Watch a match – everyone is entitled to a perspective. The 2nd half was a nightmare for the club. If we return to our usual form vs. Wolves then next week no one will be reliving this match. If we play miserably on Saturday, our manager will be right about the psychological effects. Win, and the majority of Arsenal fans will have forgotten the details of the Newcastle match.
@Arsession, and by the way Fred,……b4 the red card, Diaby was having an excellent match – as DAG pointed out (I think it was DAG)……..if it was your comment……then accept my apologies again!
@Arsession,
Still repeating the excuses …. as if repeating them often enough will make them justifiable. You can have your head in the sand talking about Tiote being a fluke all you want.
How about you just accept the facts. THIS team has choked up this kind of games very often recently. And they are likely going to continue. It was only a couple of months ago, THIS team let a 2 goal lead over Spurs (of all teams) turn into a loss AT HOME. You lot were out with your excuses after that as well.
No team gives away 2 goal leads like we do …. but this time, even losing 4 goal leads are not out of the question. That trend is simply too depressing and needs to be SOLVED by Wenger …. and it can not be solved by holding hands and singing kumbaya while doing nothing else.
And no, beating 19th place Wolves AT HOME will not make us, realists, forget about our team’s weak spine. Some silverware OR a sustained period without giving up a multiple goal lead is the only proof of improvement on that front.
@Fred, the “excuses” you seem to refer to are actually commentary, analysis, and opinion of ex-post information. you hear “excuses” because you have a cognitive bias in the way your brain evaluates information called CONFIRMATION BIAS. therefore, you immediately dismiss any and all other information that is contrary to your opinion and latch on to any information that supports your view. this of course is not to say that AW doesn’t have a few of his own cognitive biases…
your basic premis seems to be that AW is a tool, but the real issue is that all of your opinions and assumptions, dare i say excuses, for why we have not won a trophy, by default, are ex-ante and not testable. this is called FRAMING and it is another bias in how you approach a discussion topic. if only we had a different manager, or board or players, or better tactics, or a spine, etc etc etc. since they can not be tested you can not be proven wrong (or right).
those are expensive decions to make and implement and they don’t guarantee anything would be different, better, or worse. careful, i said “expensive”, that does not mean that they shouldn’t be evaluated in the correct context, and if appropriate be changed.
@jroybower,
That’s a really nice psychological analysis, intelligently expressed. It’s just been misapplied.
The notion of CONFIRMATION BIAS can even more easily/accurately be applied to the AKB mindset. Their CONFIRMATION BIAS starts at a base level of ‘Arsene Knows What He’s Doing. The club is going in the right direction’. Anything that seems to run conversely to that is actually a product of (fill in excuse here). And when you run out excuses, you just shrug your shoulders and say ‘Oh, well. Shit happens. It’s only one match.’ (That’s been said about 4/5 times this year. Remarkably, it remains ‘Only one match’. Whereas as one victory seems to actually prove something meaningful to these same people.) Or ‘Oh, well. NEXT year will be different!!!’
Now multiply all this by, oh, five/six ‘next years’.
Reality. Results. Much of what were just opinions 3/4/5 years ago have hardened into facts. I’m not going to bother laying out, again, the RESULTS (hey, all caps ARE fun) that support realists opinions. Or the RESULTS of the last 5/6 years that further support our arguments.
I’d say the confirmation BIAS belongs the AKBers. For the rest of us, the reality of a result like Newcastle is simply CONFIRMATION of what we’ve been saying for some time.
@vibe4arsenal, tsk tsk tsk.
the fact is that, the anti-AKBer’s (?!?!?) or whatever label you’d like to ascribe to yourself, have suggested changes over the years that they believe would have a positive impact on first team results. these suggestions had they been implemented may well have enabled us to three-peat in the the EPL and win the CL or perhaps we’d now be mid-table. we’ll never know. that’s right, we can’t ever know if your suggestions would have worked or not. i’ll even go far as to say that i’d agree with some of the suggestions. but there is no guarantee that the outcomes would meet your expectations.
the fact is that they haven’t been implemented and your perception is that results have not been as good as they COULD HAVE BEEN under you suggested changes, again we’ll never know. this is why i ascribed and correctly applied the confirmation bias (def: the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one’s preconceptions) to Fred. of course that doesn’t mean those who you assign the AKB moniker don’t have their own biases too!
example: if AW stays in charge we won’t win anything ever again. if we don’t win then this confirms your perception. BUT, had we changed managers and still not won this would negate your argument, but we can never know this. some how i suspect that on the off chance we collect a trophy this year, this still won’t be enough validatation to refute your baisc premise.
the big point is that there is NO WAY to disprove things that can’t be tested, but it is possible to “prove” something fits a particular perception after the fact. also the written language can not convey all the subties of communication such as inflection (CAPS!!!) or body language which constitue ~70% of what is being communicated which is probably why there are so many heated debates!!
no way to prove or disprove this argument.
@vibe4arsenal,
No way to prove it? Again, reflective of bias.
If Arsenal had WON any silver in the previous 5 seasons, wouldn’t that be cited a PROOF that Wenger’s policies were successful?
If Arsenal had even managed to dominate United or Chelsea in the last few years, would that not be called PROOF the team is going in the right direction?
Hell, if we’d beaten Newcastle 7-0, I’m pretty damn sure some would have called that PROOF of something or other.
In reality, the contrary set of FACTS is proof enough for me.
@vibe4arsenal,
reflective of bias…
(Edit gone again)
@vibe4arsenal,
“No way to prove it? Again, reflective of bias.” I disagree I that is a “FACT” ;-)
“Hell, if we’d beaten Newcastle 7-0, I’m pretty damn sure some would have called that PROOF of something or other.” someone other than a Monger I presume who would have said something about Newc not being top class blah, blah.
To the contrary, we finish in the top four in the country… every season. We qualify into the group stagesof the CL… every season. We have a Stadia amongst the best in the world training facilities to match.The income of a Super Club and ever expanding world wide fanbase. An academy that produced consecutive youth league title winners and double winners and of course playing some of the best football known to mankind ;-) . Prior to Arsene how good were we? I remember it very well, Boring, Boring Arsenal, if we didn’t win a trophy for 6 years no one would bat abn eyelid much less taunt us with the fact… As a cup half full kinda guy I call that sucess.
Sh*t happens.
Even in responses!
DIRECT TRANSLATION on Djourou from the Swiss National Team Web site (courtest Gooners Online)
According to the player himself, Johan Djourou of Arsenal (24) is less severely injured than was feared.
Cuno Wetzel, the Swiss national team doctor, received “good news” from England early Tuesday afternoon: Johan Djourou’s knee injury is apparently much less severe than had been feared. The Arsenal and Switzerland central defender had to be replaced three days ago in the 48th minute of the league match against Newcastle.
Painful bruise
Initial medical reports suggested that Djourou was injured either on the kneecap or had suffered cartilage damage. “The player suffered a very painful knee injury. The swelling and bruising delayed the diagnosis,” said Wetzel, visibly relieved, “If the healing process is normal, Djourou will probably start training again in less than a week.”
Swiss national coach pleased
Swiss national coach Ottmar Hitzfeld was very pleased with the news: “I am happy for Johan, but also for the national team. Djourou is a very important player in my thoughts. As we saw in his comeback in November 2010 in Geneva against the Ukraine, he is very important to the team. He came back very well, played to a high standard and he is very good in the opponents penalty area on set-pieces. Beceause he is 1.90m tall opposing defenders must pay him particular attention, and this may bring space and benefits for other players in our team.”
@DaAdminGooner,
Djourou has come out and said he is likely to be ready for Wolves at home this weekend.
First of all, Barton’s tackle on Diaby was two footed. Secondly, studs were perpendicular to the ground. Thirdly, both legs were off the ground. Finally, he came through the man.
Four reasons why that should have been a RED.
Nuff said.
@ DAG: My full and proper response is directly below your last comment.
Now to repudiate the 7 points.
1. Dowd misses a call on Barton – the complete taking out of Arshavin from behind
RE: That type of tackle happens in EVERY single EPL game and slightly more against us. It is not a good tackle but it happens. If we dont like it, we can either grow balls, get some hardmen to have our own “reprisals” that would in time discourage that OR we could leave the EPL and go play in France.
Either way that tackle in the first half has F ALL to do with chucking a four goal lead in the second half.
2. Dowd misses the call on Barton – taking out Diaby’s ankle
RE: Again, this tackle happens in almost every EPL game. And if one looks at the video, his feet was NOT off the ground, AND his studs were NOT showing. (He still could have injured Diaby seriously though, because he came in with force!) Again, this happens quite too often in the EPL. Excuse.
3. Diaby goes all 12 year old on Barton gets chucked
RE: This is an internal excuse and irrelevant.
4. Djourou gets kicked in the knee and gets taken off
RE: Players getting hurt in soccer is now an excuse? For what exactly?
5. Tiote’s wonder kick which 9 times out of 10 winds up on row Zed.
How do YOU know that his kick goes 9 out of 10 into row Z??? How is that relevant to the chucking a four goall lead in 25 mins?
6. The second penalty which was about as weak as the come.
RE: I give you this. But then again, Newcastle had a perfect goal overruled, so it sorta cancels out.
7. Barton not getting called for face planting our keeper
RE: Barton did NOT push CZ, it was Nolan who did, and Nolan got a yellow for it. CZ for time wasting.
——————————————————————————-
Excuse making is in vogue for Wenger FC’s obviously weak spine. Maybe if Wenger wasnt a tactical oaf OR maybe if he had a spare DM in the squad, he wouldnt have needed to bring in the failed Eboue after Diaby went OR maybe if he had got in a new competent CB, we wont need to resort to the obviously failed Squilaci ….. and maybe then, we wouldnt have embarrasingly made history by chucking a four goal lead in spectacular fashion and you lot wont have to bring up such boring excuses.
I am CERTAIN that when the very predictable injury bug strikes … some on here will come out and say “shit happens” – rather than actually questioning why we have such a thin squad in the first place.
@Fred,
Fred thanks for a more “measured” response.
First I made no excuses for the team, I said even in my write up above that no team even down 10 men shouldn’t let Newcastle off the hook.
What I did was examine the confluence of factors excluding one I shouldn’t – the self-doubt of the team – that lead to the downfall.
First off just because those tackles happen all the time doesn’t make them right. That is not a good tackle by any definition of the laws of the game. It goes to the very heart of inconsistency of poor match calling by refs.
I don’t disagree that Diaby acted like a petulant idiot but so did Viera at times and everyone loves him.
The injury to Djourou is important beause not five minutes later Diaby would go off. Why is this importnat. Had Diaby stayed on the impact of Djourou’s absence is minimal. Diaby can act as cover to Squillaci – what happens instead is that an injured Djourou goes off, a childish Diaby goes over. Wilshere and Cesc stop going forward and sit back more to cover the back four thus allowing Newcastle to have the ball more and deeper in our territory. Why becuase our defencive anchor is gone. That was my point on the injury. Not that it was an excuse that it was one of two pivotal moments in our downfall.
How do I know it ends up in row zed? Because it usually does. A blind reflexive kick like that usually ends off in with the fans.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Diaby gets a straight red for his petulance? And Nolan gets a yellow for essentially taking his arm wrapping it around CZ’s head and face planting it. Not sure I agree that yellow was the right call there. Was CZ’s yellow for time wasting a good call? Probably. But most keeper’s do that and get warnings.
Fact is in terms of the referreeing Dowd was downright awful and I am not the only one to say – he has actually been withdrawn from the match he was supposed to call this week. Also Graham Poll has come out and said he let the match get away from his control.
But look I agree we shouldn’t have let Newcastle back in the game.
@DaAdminGooner, Glad to see you guys moving towards agreement/consensus/what have you…..The foul language and aggressiveness was harshing my mellow….
Perhaps, just maybe, someday, instead of persisting with the labels and general tone of I’M RIGHT, YOU’RE (ALL) WRONG we could actually start our discussions from a position of openness, as if everybody’s potential contribution might have some validity.
It’s just a thought….
But if that’s impossible, I just want to note that at least one of the realist/doomers, I can’t remember which one, because I can only lump them all together, was very excited about the Squillaci signing after going on and on (fairly endlessly) about how stupid the Koscielny signing was…..
I’m just trying to say that the R/Ds aren’t right all the time….
Sorry for this interruption, I’ll let you get back to the bleating/screaming/chest pounding, etc.
And here’s a little video I made (of myself) last night, before the hot tub, etc….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqsW_noBIjQ ;-)
Great fun that people are enjoying arguing over my DNA, and, If I must choose (and it seems I must) I guess I’m a stinky hippie….
As such, last night (after my hot tub….) I came in and lit a little incense (and maybe something else….) and looked at the slow football news and saw all sorts of things….
First off, Djourou tweets that he hurt his knee but that we just need to check the dot com for news….And checking over there, there wasn’t any, so, obviously, he’s FINE!!!
But then, as Ozi points out, our world cup finalists are suddenly sick and will miss out on their Int’l duties….Whoa, Deja Vu and enhanced Vulcan Mind Meld and it was like I was right there as they and Our Fearless Leader, He Who I Will Never Doubt Again, whose name cannot be spoken but is the same as my favorite football club (Whoa, I’d never noticed that before….) was saying, “Now Cesc, now Robin, it’s all about the Club and I know that if we just get naked and rub each other with this HP balm, we’ll get over our sicknesses….In fact, we’ll never get injured and we will never lose and we will score (on-side) wonder goals and play beautiful football and we will use the Club’s money to fill trophies with this stuff, so that we have enough, even for Eboue and Arshavin and Rosicky and the referees…..Just close your eyes and rub it in…..Ahhhh, that’s it…..”
Next thing I know, it’s morning and I’m still naked, but I feel incredibly peaceful and well-rested…..
Was it a dream? Maybe, but it FELT so real….I just wonder what HP stands for (could it be horse placenta?) and how I can get me some of that stuff….
@highburyterracesteve, …well. it’s got to be the ‘shrooms.
Swiss FA just released a statement on Djourou’s injury – the prognosis was delayed due to swelling but the reporting it is only bruised knee cap after getting kicked in the knee.
They are saying his down time is likely one week
There is no rationale to explain the Newcastle result. If you watch enough football, sh*t happens to everyone.
@Arsession,
Except that no other team in EPL history has chucked a 4 goal lead before …. so we pretty much made history …. other than that yeah, “shit happens” …. the refrain of the Hippie AKB ;-) ….. though we do seem to be chucking quite a number of games in the past few years though …..
@Fred,
Fred – piss off okay.
Yeah you know what – it was pretty fucking horrible that our team chucked away the lead but let’s talk about shit hapening –
1. Dowd misses a call on Barton – the complete taking out of Arshavin from behind
2. Dowd misses the call on Barton – taking out Diaby’s ankle
3. Diaby goes all 12 year old on Barton gets chucked
4. Djourou gets kicked in the knee and gets taken off
5. Tiote’s wonder kick which 9 times out of 10 winds up on row Zed.
6. The second penalty which was about as weak as the come.
7. Barton not getting called for face planting our keeper
Should I go on? That’s a confluence of shit happening. Did it suck hell yeah. No way we should cough that lead up but there were still a ton of mitigating circumstances. Still doesn’t change the pit in my stomach but at least I can look at it and say if some of those calls get called or Djourou doesn’t get injured its 3 points.
Tell me would you have picked Wolves to beat United? Shit happens? What about Villa beating City? Shit happens? How about Chelsea losing 7 matches? Guess what that is? You guessed it shit happens.
Shit happens all the time in the EPL.
@DaAdminGooner,
‘Shit happens’ is what you when stuff happens that no one has any control over. So you can say ‘shit happens’ in every single match when you want to write off things you don’t like. Because there’s always a chance of bad calls, wonder shots, terrible shots, wonky pitch…
So, yes, shit happens. Like it did against Everton when a line judge helped spot them a one goal lead. But the shit that happened in the second hallf of that match was that Arsenal played a whole hell of a lot better and overcame the shit (including their own shit first half performance).
You know what ‘shit happened’ to Newcastle the other day? They fell down to a Top Club by three goals in 20 minutes, at home, during what was already a bad week for them. How did they respond to all that shit? With some fecking heart. Go ahead, give them no credit. Pure homerism.
Shit’s happened to United all season. Not up to their usual quality, as everyone recognizes. And yet, somehow, they managed to overcome all that to remain undefeated for more than half the season. How did that shit happen? How come it often seems to just ‘happen’ to them?
For Arsenal, shit happened this year against Spurs, W.B.A. Leeds, Newcastle, Ipswich, and Newcastle (again). That’s a lot of shit just ‘happening’ around Arsenal. The latter of which never ‘happened’ to ANY PL club before.
‘Shit happens’ is a phrase that hinges on its verb. This past Saturday was all about the noun.
Yeah, I get how Fred’s vitriol can get on people’s nerves. But I’ve been part of AA/YAMA for some 7 years now. And when you strip away the *way* he says some things, the content has often proved true.
And, really, the attempts to spin away the ‘shit’ on here can be pretty effing annoying, as well.
@DaAdminGooner,
You piss off, DAG. I’ve told you several times I will say whatever the f&*k I want to say. If you want a “sanitized” kumbaya, ArsenalAmerica style website, just say so and be done with it.
That list is the most PATHETIC list of excuses ever!
IF DJOROU DOESNT GET INJURED ???? Who has been screaming about bringing in reinforcements and the dire lack of squad numbers ALL JANUARY??? And who didnt address this? Wenger. Who made excuses for that??? Now YOU are talking about DJ getting injured ….. maybe we should have more CBs or better CBs then. Ya think?
Excuse making of the highest order.
@Fred, well tehcnically you are correct becuase we are disscussing EPL history. however, should you choose to look at a longer sample of english football history than you might consider December 21, 1957 when Huddersfield Town was up 5-1 against 10 man Charlton Athletic with 27 mintues to go. Huddersfield lost 7-6.
if someone could point me to a good source of data that has the goals for every game played in the EPL by match and time (exportable), i’d be happy to run a statistical analysis and compute the implied probability of losing a 4 goal lead.
@Fred, well technically you are correct when you cite EPL history. however, should you take a longer stroll through english football history you’d find that Hudderfield Town FC was up 5-1 to 10 man Charlton Athletic on December 21, 1957 with 27 minutes to play. Huddersfield lost 7-6.
if anyone can point me to a reliable data source that has every goal by time and match in the EPL (exportable), then i would be happy to do a statistcal analysis to compute the implied probability of giving up a 4 goal lead.
Spot on paragraph from an Arsenal Mania article:
hat is surprising though, is the news that both RvP and Cesc are staying in London, rather than joining up with their respective squads. RvP is suffering from ‘flu and Cesc has apparently gone down with gastroentiritis. One hand, I’m thinking that yet again, we’ve been robbed of the entire spine of our side- Vermaelen, Djourou, Song, Fabregas and van Persie, not to mention our player of the season nursing a strained hamstring. On the other, I’m thinking my God, Arsenal have finally learnt about tactically withdrawing their players from needless matches with the potential for harm! About time I say, if this is the case. I hope that’s all it is, we’ll find out on Saturday I suppose, for now it’s fingers crossed. And toes.
I really hope it is tactical! It’ll give me hope for the future. If it’s true, still no big deal because they should recover from those by the weekend anyway… Barring VP’s flu turning into career threatening avian flu. Wouldn’t be a surprise with him would it?
Groundhog day is playing again ;) …. for those who remember the old days. Any Kool Aiders still left here? Andez around these days? Enjoy the season :)
LDE
@live_dont_exist,
Good to see you, LDE. Hope all is well.
Andez does still come around. Sadly, his (re) appearances almost always seem to be followed by an awful result for the club. Pretty sure there’s not an actual correlation.
In terms of the Kool-Aid, yeah, Art’s still running the stand. I’m pretty sure there’s something more than kool-aid in it, at this point. :-))
sachin, thanks for the link to the arsenalmania site. the author said what i was thinking, only better. he used the term “culture” which i thought of but didn’t write. as a business, arsenal is already world-class. as a footballing organization, we’re getting there.
jroy, you can’t take fred too personal. you simply have to understand the nature of who you’re dealing with. having proper discussions takes a back seat to winning arguments with him. we’ve argued for years and i quite enjoy the dynamic he brings; keeps it from being boring. but i do wonder if he win every argument with his wife?
did you guys read kiwi give van persie props? it has officially snowed in hell.
it’s tough to take knowing the team failed to win all three points yesterday. the talent is there for all to see but it takes more than talent to win these kind of games. arsenal’s mentorhship program sucks now more than ever. as a result, arsenal have recently fail to win games they’re supposed to win. the young player simply don’t know how to finish some of these games. with all of the older guys having left the club, wenger’s got to find a way to teach these boys. we’ll see how that goes.
@joshuad,
“but i do wonder if he wins every argument with his wife?”
Aha, who does? :-D
@joshuad, you are welcome Josh. As soon as I read what you said, I knew I had to dig up that article.
Very fine reading after a day of skiing with my boy and then eating/drinking at a very low key Super bowl party….
Agree with Chicago…wanted to see the steel workers come back and beat the meat packers or whatever it is….
In more important matters….Fantastic narrative from CK, perfectly summing up the “historic circumstances” and just like Mazza says, this is the league that no one wants to win….To think that we’ve hit rock bottom (again) and gained in the table….it boggles my (simple) mind….
Fundamental problem: lack of leadership….Our wantaway Captain should have stepped in and pushed Diaby away and then smashed Dowd’s head against his (lookalike, simpleton) son, Barton’s, and then a linesman could’ve put us down to 9 men, but those guys never would’ve had the audacity to call the ridiculous pens. In the end, it’s just so completely absurd, but we need to take responsibility where we can and stop the choke, choke, choking….
But then our rivals drop more points (than us) against crap competition!!! One of which, after spending 75 million GBP, which, it seems, is not enough to beat (or draw at home against) a team where Maxi, miss from 3 yards, is undroppable, Oh my Lord!….As my esteemed colleague, Fred, might say…It means nothing if WE can’t beat Wolves in a week’s time….and given how shit we are, we very well might not….
Both United and Chelsea, however, are far more likely to advance in the CL….Did anybody else watch Barca play yesterday?….Another dimension, I fear, but it will be a moral victory just to just take the pitch and hear that stupid anthem…..and as always, being an idiot, I will hope against hope….
Crazy times, but at least I’ve got my YAMA boys to keep things in perspective….(And, frankly, I think Denilpoop and Song’s injuries were overstated to allow Diaby his “chance” though Djourou’s worries me, and as I’ve stated, over and over and over, despite my status as an “AKB”, we should’ve paid above market for a utility defender in the Jan. window…) But what are you gonna do? Except say, “Oh well” and “I hope nobody gets hurt on Int’l duty”….
@highburyterracesteve,
“though Djourou’s worries me, and as I’ve stated, over and over and over, despite my status as an “AKB”, we should’ve paid above market for a utility defender in the Jan. window…”
AHA …. FINALLY …. some acceptance!
With Song as our only and overworked DM, with Koz, Squil and DJ playing only their first EPL season and with Squill and DJ being very injury prone …. it was NECESSARY to buy a CB in the January window.
This is SIMPLE logic and is fundamentally a common sense way of looking at things.
One AKB (who denies he is one!) has been converted – albeit temporarily …. therefore it is a GREAT DAY ;-)
@Fred,
Lol Fred, Steve could never be a Monger he has Hippie DNA! A Hippie for life :laugh:
Damn Pack.
This game had a surreal parallel to “The Perfect Storm”. It was a series of events which all came together in an eerily perfect sequence to create a set of situations to allow the largest come back from a 4 goal deficit in the EPL.
1)Dowd started the storm by allowing NC players to get away with reckless tackles while calling the most simple tackles from Arsenal players. Naturally, the players became frustrated, angry and combative. Barton should have been off for his tackle on Arshavin in the first half. 4-0 down at the half with 10 men would have sealed the win.
2)Diaby, with his history of having suffered a serious leg injury inflicted by another EPL goon, retaliated to a tackle against him which could also easily have been a red card. His retaliation certainly deserved a red but the Irony was that Barton should not even have been on the field.
3) DJ, who has been having a great partnership with Koz get’s injured and has to come off. The minute he leaves the field, especially with Song also out we are soft in the middle and lacking a defensive aerial presence. Perfect for NC, they can now lump the ball forward and get knock ons.
4)Dowd awards a non existent penalty in the 67th minute. Barton scores and all of a sudden the crowd gets into it and starts urging their team on with 23 minutes to go.
5)Best gets the best of Clichey at the far post, ball falls luckily for him and he puts in a tidy finish in the 75th minute. 15 minutes + injury time to go, the momentum totally shifts and the home crowd revs up their team in a frenzy.
6) Suddenly, Arsenal retreats with RVP and Walcott all dropping into their own half. Problem with this is that the game is now being played in the Arsenal half which is now crowded with 20 players all putting balls into the penalty area. Where is our defensive schema? Non-existent. Both RVP and Walcott should have held high positions to occupy defenders on the half line and this would have allowed us to be able to counter attack, especially with the speed of Walcott. A defensive coach is way overdue as Arsene lacks in that area.
7) Arsenal panics and starts kicking the ball upfield to no one, thereby conceding possession. Lack of leadership both on and off the field shows our team in disarray.
8)The three subs, Squid, Rosicky and Eboue look totally out of it and instead of adding fresh legs they are dragging the team under. In hindsight, Bendtner or Chamakh and Gibbs would have provided more defensive coverage and height. Poor substitutions, especially Rosicky.
9) Another soft penalty by Mr. “bribe me when you can” Dowd sends the stadium in an uproar and Arsenal are really on the backfoot now. Nolan should have been sent off for hitting CZ but only gets a yellow. Where is the consistency. At this point, Newcastle should have been down to 9 men, 8 if the same player can get sent off twice.
10) The rest is history, Tiote scores an incredible goal, thefirst for his club, with a strike which would have gone into the stands 99 out of a 100 times.
The Lord giveth and he also taketh away. A perfect storm and the perfect crime perpetuated by a Ref who should be hauled away to the stocks in Hyde Park and be pelted with rotten fruit every day for the rest of his miserable life.
Yep I too agree we needed a CB especially in retrospect Kiwi but we would still have have to find the right player at the right price. I don’t think there was much chance of getting that this January. Unless we got the tried and tested yet overpriced Cahill or Samba we may have ended up with another misfit like Squilla is so far this season, probably a costly one too.
I don’t think splashing out on a CB would have been a good idea then or now but still think Wenger should have recalled Bartley in the window. Yes Bartley is untested at the top level but we would be in a better position with him and Song as well as Squilla to cover. I still cannot see the point of shelling out 10 mill or so on cover.
Oh dear indeed lets just hope Djourou will be back soon. If Diaby could play like he did against Newc before the sending off I would prefer Song as CB with Kosch until Squilla gains some confidence. Those two are a shambolic partnership at present.
Wengers biggest mistake may have been in the summer transfer window not the January one, if he had bought someone like Cahill, Sakho etc,etc instead of Squillawho knows what may have happened? But that would pose another bunch of questions who would have been happy to be cover Sakho or Kosch? And what about the experience we are lacking as a team?
@ArfaSheds,
Hahahahhaha …. with pie on face delivered by REALITY you are STILL doubling down on the “we still shouldnt have bought any CB” opinion hey? …. LOL.
Still talking about Song as CB …. even though he is injured and our only DM anyway … still talking about Squillaci ….
Maybe a few more injuries (as we play more matches and as the internationals restart) will smack you back to reality ….
@Fred,
My opinion has not changed no point in paying over the odds for cover simple. Chelsea paid 22 mill for a CB lets see if that gets them the PL or CL.
Have you not yet heard Song is not a DM in our set up? Has anyone told you that either Song or Djourou are out for a long term? If they were that would be bad luck. If Cesc and RvP were out long term should we also have paid over the odds for them in retrospect?
We have plenty cover in CM once Diaby returns and some of our loanees are on as little as 1 month loans we can afford to use Song as a CB if absolutely necessary. Would be nice if Bartley is one of those on amonth loan too but I am not too sure about that.
Good to see King Kenny’s reign working.
@Kiwi,
Yup, not too shabby ….. what are the odds they manage to sneak into top 4 this season?
Dragan Stojkovic to replace Wenger.
@Kiwi,
Great news! a Wenger clone, I will be proud to be labelled a DKB ;-)
@ArfaSheds, lol
So much has been discussed already but here’s a few random thoughts….
– Wenger barely celebrated the first 2 early goals. It seemed a bit weird, almost like he thought it was too good to be true, or they had scored too soon….
– Obviously Diaby’s dismissal gave Newcastle a glimmer of hope, but for me the absence of Djourou gave me dread. Kos/Squil just doesn’t work. Every time Newcastle attacked us aerially we were all at sea. Djourou has become very important. I’m sorry to say I told you so, but this is exactly why we needed a CB reinforcement. Oh dear.
– well done van Persie.
– Often I vent immediately after a bad result. But I held myself back, honestly believing that Wolves may redeem our horror display – and they did. To me, this just perplexes me more. Why, when this title looks so open, don’t we give ourselves a better chance.
Anyway, things are looking a bit fragile, not so much the collapse, more-so the impact of these injuries. Nasri and now Djourou.
@Kiwi,
Thats exactly what I dont understand …. normally Wenger’s recent team is short on quality …. but this time, when the league is wide open and it seems possible we might be able to steal it if we are lucky ….. it is NOW he decides to have a really, really threadbare squad and in addition loan out ALL the reserves.
Its incredible really. Its almost like he desperately doesnt want to win.
Ramsey played a full nintey for Cardiff and set up the winner.
@DaAdminGooner,
Adebayor started for Real and scored two ;-)
@ArfaSheds,
Ade scored only one goal you bloody liar! ;-)
I think we found out all we needed to about this lily-livered crop yesterday. Yes, we may stay in the hunt for longer than usual due to the topsy turvy nature of the league but there will be a time when there isn’t anymore time for topsy-turvy; someone will actually have to grasp the nettle and win this darn league.
Judging by the last five years – by the pyschological profile of this squad – it won’t be us who steps forward and grabs bull by the horns. Again our title challenge would be seen as a superficial one, like all the others.
You can blame the ref all you want, but again it would be ignoring the elephant in the room, no not Eboue, but our continued inability to combat opposition that adopts kamikaze, helter skelter tactics. We need them to play within a certain tactical confine and when they do that we can just about cope, but as soon as they rip up the script we forget our lines, and we’re not good at ad-libing. It only serves to foster an environment that brings out our demons.
@Mazza,
“lily-livered crop” Mazza you crack me up, you really do, but not even arthur (in the 3rd person) can defend the undefensible.
@Mazza,
” it would be ignoring the elephant in the room, no not Eboue, ”
Boom, goes the dynamite.
Rest is spot on as well.
@Mazza,
Being “in the hunt” in February is not any longer than usual. We are usually a bit “in it” by early March … before our annual crumble.
Out of our 14 fit outfield players 13 will be on duty in midweek. Lets just hope they all come back OK.
@Fred,
As I said on the last thread, February and March are usually the best for the AKBers. They’re historically pretty scarce late May.
@Mazza,
Oops! I am obviously out of place here. Looks like a Monger convention, excuse me ;-)
@ArfaSheds,
Not too late to join the Mazzaratti
http://www.ratewall.com/cpics/fa4a553f-bdcb-4d4e-b3f4-16cd48eafc4e_children_corn_isaac.jpg
@ArfaSheds,
You go right ahead and enjoy the biggest collapse in Premier League history.
@Mazza, so you mean that … in Wenger-speak, Newcastle didn’t play proper football? LOL
Yeah Nice article DAG echoing a lot of the fans frustrations with that game.
Like the title too but i would have prefered: F***ing Diaby F***ing Dowd F***ing Fred :-D
I must say I was worried about ManUre’ unbeaten run too. They have played like crap and still not lost a game and they have recently seemed to be getting into the groove. When they are in the groove they are a hard team to cope with. Them going unbeaten was unrealistic but nevertheless possibility I and Arsenal fans worldwide dreaded.
As such I was more happy with the ManUre defeat than I was disappointed with the Arsenal neo-defeat, I am a Hippie after all :-D
From 4-0 up to 4-4 and about 5 inches away from losing 5-4, yet at the end of the weekend we still end up better off than the “big two”.
You Are My Arsenal and will always be the best team in my Hippie eyes Kumba ya my lord, Kumba yaa ;-)
@ArfaSheds,
Someone is still upset his hippie predictions have left him with pie on his face. Here is an handkerchief, son ;-)
@Fred,
What Hippie prediction Fred?
:-D
I am not making this shit up a French Web site is actually reporting that Phil Dowd and Rosicky are part of an Interpol investigation into match fixing.
It is completely unsubstantiated but it is out there.
@DaAdminGooner,
NOOOO that can’ be true could it?!! ! it is a hoax, probably made up by an Arsenal fan!
@ArfaSheds,
Seriously it is getting legs. Supposedly around match time the clip reports that there were a large amount of abnormal money transactions.
And just o everyone knows, I am not saying this happened – just find it funny that this is getting legs
@ArfaSheds, I am convinced the rumours are just that started by a group of United and Chelsea fans who wanted the focus on Arsenal after their dreaw instead of United and Chelsea;s loss
@ArfaSheds,
Dowd obviously hates Arsenal and I associate him with biased descisions against Arsenal as I have one or two others in the past. But money changing hands? Ummh… I am not so sure! as for Rosicky that is laughable, what has he to gain from this? surely not money
i’m surprised so many people thought ManU had ANY chance of going the season unbeaten. they are very average (from a “top club” perspective) and i gave them 0% chance of pulling it off. of course better for them to have lost now, then in the final days….
i agree with you DAG. the ref had his part to play, but our players had their bit to play too and put together, the perfect storm for a collapse of epic proportions. it will be interesting to see if they can recover from this and have good run in or if they put their tail between their legs and go quietly through the motions of the rest of the season.
we’ll just have to take it one game at a time with the squad we have.
@jroybower, LOL.
yes, you gave them ZERO chance, after they lost… I didn’t see you say they had zero chance before yesterday!
@stag133, i’ll go see if i can find the archived webpage of soccernet.com from a few weeks ago when i voted in their poll that they would not go the season undefeated. i think about 44% of respondents agreed with me. sorry i didn’t post that prophecy here…
thus my surprise over the last several days to see postings about everyone is sooo relieved. maybe only aresenal fans thought they could do it because it would “trump” our team?!?
@stag133, i’ll go see if i can find the archived webpage of soccernet.com from a few weeks ago when i voted in their poll that they would not go the season undefeated. i think about 44% of respondents agreed with me. sorry i didn’t post that prophecy here…
thus my surprise over the last several days to see postings about everyone is sooo relieved. maybe only aresenal fans thought they could do it because it would “trump” our team?!?
@jroybower, LOL.
yes, you gave them ZERO chance, after they lost… I didn’t see you say they had zero chance before yesterday!
@jroybower,
Thinking that United could go all the way when they were still undefeated more than halfway through a season in which the ‘quality’ of their nearest competition has already led to 5 losses is less ridiculous then waiting until the day after United lost to say….
“I knew it! And to prove it all you have to do is somehow gain access to the individual results of an anonymous online poll!!”
@vibe4arsenal, fairpoint and i’d expect nothing less from this crowd. i’ll keep my views to myself from now on or will properly document all assertations, predicitions, and prophecys for my defense in any future comments.
the POINT of the comment was to express surprise at how many people here seemed to think that united would go undefeated. i thought this because the majority of the responses i saw in an “anonymous online poll” did not believe that was the case several weeks ago before the lost to the worst team in the league. i suspect most would not have picked wolves as the team to put one over on them however. clearly we don’t have a representative sample on yama or the the online poll was severely biased and/or flawed.
@vibe4arsenal, fairpoint and i’d expect nothing less from this crowd. i’ll keep my views to myself from now on or will properly document all assertations, predicitions, and prophecys for my defense in any future comments.
the POINT of the comment was to express surprise at how many people here seemed to think that united would go undefeated. i thought this because the majority of the responses i saw in an “anonymous online poll” did not believe that was the case several weeks ago before the lost to the worst team in the league. i suspect most would not have picked wolves as the team to put one over on them however. clearly we don’t have a representative sample on yama or the the online poll was severely biased and/or flawed.
@jroybower,
I don’t take online polls seriously. You never know who’s voting, how many times, their agenda, etc.
On YAMA, I think it was a combination of the factors I mentioned above and perhaps an excess of concern the one bragging right we have over United fans was in serious jeopardy. Perhaps representing an emotional reaction rather than intellectual thought process. Because I do think that most recognized, as you mentioned, they (like the rest of the top clubs this year) are a lot less shiny.
In any case, the one thing on here EVERYONE can agree on is that, for one more year at least, it’s all ours.
nice write up……DAG
after watching this match, my day ruined…….and then later realizing that we gained a point on ManU and Chelsea……little
consolation.
Easy to point fingers, but we must pick up our boots and learn from this.
First 30 minutes – firing on 8 cylinders…….how long has that been in coming?
Psychologically, I’m anxious to see how the team responds against Wolves on Saturday? and who will start for us? ManU v ManCity next weekend to add to the drama.
ManU is not the team of previous years……nor is Chelsea. If Tevez stays healthy, City can’t be underestimated.
@Arsession, City might be the deepest team, with the most talented individuals. I would agree that they could win the league THIS YEAR, with the way the top teams are losing with regularity.
Tevez is simply the best player in the EPL.