Let’s talk about Cesc
Let's talk about Cesc baby!
I’ve gone back and forth on writing someting related to the firestorm that is circling around our Captain Cesc Fabregas. And frankly, I am probably saying some of what many of saying but hell what kind of Arsenal blog would this be if I didn’t address it right?
The entire internet universe is abuzz with rumours and inneuendo about whether or not Cesc will depart Arsenal for the silver pastures of Barcelona. At this point right now it is very hard to decipher fact from fiction. There are likley some very truthful articles out there and some rather decietful articles only intended to grow readership. But as the saying goes, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
Let’s go back a week ago with Cesc Fabregas in his native Spain and asked whether he would ever leave Arsenal his response was:
“If I leave Arsenal it will be to play at Barcelona, I do not know when it will happen, I am very happy at Arsenal and I am in no hurry to leave.”
To me that’s a pretty harmless statement. But when added to the follow-up statement:
“Before the World Cup I want to know my future, because playing at a World Cup and having something on your mind does not help anyone.”
You can see where confusion might reign and start to make people wonder. Now my original read on the follow-up statement was this – Cesc is no dummy and knows that the Barca Presidential elections are coming and that he is likely to become a pawn in their proceedings as each candidate will make promises on players they want to bring in. Cesc is a huge local favorite and the Barca President who brings him in will be a hero. My thought was that Cesc was merely saying I don’t want to be a pawn in this. He is almost saying, if you are serious about making an offer to Arsenal do it – I don’t need my name in the press for the entire summer, especially when I am trying to win the World Cup with Spain.
The problem is all Cesc did at the age of 23 mind you, is fan the flames further. Joan Deporta, outgoing Barca President was told this and then went on record to say if the player said that we have to get him here. Then came Tuesday’s shit storm. As the sun rose in the states the internet was on fire with a blog that stated Cesc had had a one on one meeting with Arsene Wenger where he said he wanted to leave Arsenal this summer for Barcelona.
Guillem Balague’s blog that started as a rumor on his own site turned into a full fledged article on Spanish site AS.com (article is here – make sure you have Google translator or can read spanish). It was then picked up by the English press and run with.
Now let me say that I do not believe the English press picked this up without investigation. However, I am still a little leary of the article. First it only implies what Cesc says and carries no statement from those close to him or the player himself. So the question has to be asked how does Guillem Balague know what happened in a private conversation between the two. Secondly, supposedly Arsene is on holiday. Now I am sure he can easily fly back for the crunch talks but I am just saying as quickly as this storm erupted.
Finally on Wednesday there seemed to be a variety of articles out there that gave the press some outs – you saw statements from Barca saying that if Arsenal did not want to sell then they would have to respect that. Also stories came out that Arsenal have not received any offers for the player. To me this was all to mitigate any damage should the story they hyped the previous day prove to be nothing.
Now let’s get to brass tacks. I think the conversation did happen. I think the manner in which Arsenal ended the season may have added to the frustration Cesc was going through based on his injury. Had he not been injured the likelihood of losing as many as we did at the end is diminished. Chances are with Cesc AND Van Persie on the pitch things may have ended differently and we wouldn’t have gone out with a whimper. Clearly its evident that this can lead all players to get frustrated.
Secondly, it is hard not to admire the era that is currently underway ast Barcelona and Cesc would be crazy not want to jump in now when he is going to be entering his prime. If he were to wait a few years that golden era may not still be there. Things change. Just ask Arsenal.
But when it comes down to it, Arsenal hold the cards. They have Cesc under contract for 4 years (I’ve also heard 5). They are paying him a good wage £80-110K per week. And they gave him his shot. Cesc is who he is today because of Arsenal not Barcelona. The kid at academy had he stayed at Barca may not have even gotten a chance to play regular first team ball. At 16 years old he got his chance with the Arsenal squad. He is who he is because of Arsenal.
Arsenal do not need to sell. This is not a case like Viera or Henry where they were on the down side of their career. This is a young player who is on the way up. Like Anelka was. Arsenal dug their heels in on him and finally sold him to Real Madrid at a significant profit. The significant profit doesn’t come into play for Cesc because more than Anelka the team is being built around Cesc. Anelka wasn’t integral to Arsenal at the time. There were plenty of players of signifigance on the team at the team Anelka was sold.
My fear as has been discussed by others is that this is going to get acrimonious. I think Arsenal are going to stand firm. How the Catalan handles this will determine how it all plays out. As much as I dislike Cristiano Ronaldo the year before his transfer when speculation was rife – when Man United said no – he shut up and played his heart out for the team and then got his transfer. I would hope that this is the case for Cesc that he handles this with the dignity he has handled the inneuendo before.
Finally, Arsenal must hold firm on two fronts. First, they must hold their line with regard to the player. They have a signed contract and have made him a star. They gave him his shot and they need to say – we will sell you when we want to – not when you want to. Additionally, Arsenal must know Barca’s financial situation. The hold significant debt on the team right now. (I believe in excess of £500 million) The funds to secure Fabregas are limited. Barca do not have the financial resources of Madrid, Chelsea or City. They can only pay so much. (about £40 million). Supposedly Arsenal are telling them its £50 million just to start discussions. If that’s so, good for them. Arsenal need to set the tone and not move from their stance. For Barca to think that since he was in their youth system they will get some sort of discount is ridiculous. Cesc is who he is because of Arsenal not Barcelona.
Fabregas will leave Arsenal. When? Who knows. Arsenal fans will have to come to grips with that at some point.
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Assuming Wenger re-signs. Cesc’s departure may result in yet another iteration of Arsenal post-invincibles. This would be the third iteration…
1. Ade/Hleb/Fab/Flam
2. MrRotation/Arshavin/Fab/Song
3. ???
My punt is Wenger won’t even try to ‘replace’ Fabregas. Just like he didn’t replace Vieira, Bergkamp or Henry. The question is more-so which players will (Arsene get) the team (to) shape around and what formation will evolve. Depending on how you look at it, either Fabregas wasn’t a solid footing for the team to shape around in the EPL OR Wenger never put the right quality in key places to allow the Fabregas-inspired team to genuinely contest in the EPL. I think both narratives have merit.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Nasri become a more influential player – he’s French and he’s a creative attacking talent.
As always, with Wenger-sides I worry more about the attack. Ours hasn’t been good enough to support the Wenger vision since the break-up of the 2004 team.
You can’t win the league, without one of the best defenses.
We haven’t had one of the best defenses in years.
You won’t get an argument out of me on that one ;-)
That said, Wenger never spends big on defence so why waste mental energy on something that won’t happen? The best we can hope for under Wenger is a good defence not a great one.
Even if we sorted the defence, the MO of the team under Wenger will still be to attack. So without the firepower to overwhelm sides the grand plan will still come up short.
What was wrong with our attack in 07/08 (b4 injuries) when the midfield was composed of Flamini, Cesc, Rosicky, and Hleb?
Defense has been patched up for too long. Arsene needs to find solutions at CB and GK.
Adebayor hit 24, no one else got to double figures (7 was next best). No one wins a title on that form.
I remember the ‘climax’ to that season, limping home with patched up line-ups, struggling to find a serious attacking option. Ade was flogged. The core Ade/Hleb/Fab/Flam were 100% punched out.
As I mentioned at the start of this soap opera, Barca have not stepped up to the plate and made an offer; so from Cesc’s perspective, WHY has Barca not made an offer?
What must be running through Cesc’s head?
Why are the transfer amounts mentioned by the spanish media, insultingly low? How would Cesc feel valued by Barca at $30 mil? Imo, certainly, its laughable. Look at all the players names that have been tossed about as part of trade and money. That certainly has to be unsettling for team unification.
I believe our club ( with their silence ) is skillfully handling the situation and whatever decision is agreed to by board, manager, and player, Arsenal will take the high road.
There may not be other Cesc’s in the footballing world, but to accept the foregone conclusion that the team will fall apart with his departure, is naive. If you are a player, then you understand football is a business. Players are their own companies!
What you worry about the most, usually never comes to fruition.
Valued at 30Million GBP? ONLY 30 Million! LOL
I think he’d sleep pretty damned well. They only paid 34M for David Villa.
Why would or should Cesc care about the AMOUNT we sell him for?
He is interested in playing for Barcelona. Does Chamakh care that we waited for him to be FREE? instead of buying him last year?
His father also commented that the monetary figures are INSANE…
yes, in terms of BUSINESS decisions, I am sure our club will do just fine.
The team will not fall apart if Cesc goes. Surely. We didn’t “fall apart” when Vieira or Henry left… though we haven’t won SHIT since Vieira buried the winning PK against ManU in the FA Cup, his last kick in an Arsenal shirt.
Unfortunately,
I worried the most about us becoming what we are… a selling club. It’s come to fruition over and over.
DAG.
Please.
Can you give us a new thread?
Summer Transfers / WC prelude #1 ?
Our squad is a veritable mish-mash of players, with or without Cesc. However what Cesc does is act as a bridge of sorts, and amalgamates the squad into something passing as a cohesive unit that looks like it’s going somewhere, possibly(at times).
The older players respect him as a youth ‘project’of distinction. A genuine world class talent that to some extent justifies the path the club has taken in the last few years, with the hope that the ones behind him may reach a similar level and improve the overall collective (although evidence indicates the contrary). He also acts as a mentor to the youth, and an inspiration. Not as aloof as Henry, Fabregas gives the impression of someone who is not ashamed to allign himself with them in regards to progression. It’s “we” and not “me and them”.
However, with him gone, the whole thing falls apart without some serious investment. That conduit is no longer at the forefront of the team, constantly providing cajones and subtance to the jelly-like foundations around him. The likes of Sol(who soon could be upping sticks), Arshavin and RVP are left with the bare remains of project youth, the ugly duckings still without a prom date, and they become more disaffected. Team spirit dwindles as the team dawdles. The youngsters, and the not so youngsters (they only play like them), have to fend for themselves, and step up to the plate(that’s been sitting on the table for the last three years). Previous evidence suggests they won’t, and educated foresight spells impending removal from the top four, nevermind a tilt at the title.
Beautifully put….
Cesc, not the quickest player, can make things happen with his vision and range of passes. And this past season he (finally?) showed promise in finding the net himself. His presence on the pitch allows us to play the harrying defense that characterized our early season and still appear dangerous on the counter. Without him it’s tippy tappy along the top of the box and/or hoping a player can turn and dribble and make something from nothing. Difficult to replace, for sure….
Latest news is that Cesc has had the best conversation of his life with AW….Our manager sure can spin a yarn…..And that’s he’s focused on the WC and that it’s out of his hands…leaving Arsenal supporters to twist in the wind all summer.
Fun times….
shouldn’t be any different than virtually EVERY other Summer!
Star player probably going, drags on all Summer.
Yep, that’s the Arsenal way.
Before the whole Cesc saga, I would have been very upset about Merida leaving. The guy never got one-tenth of the chances utter planks like Denilson and Diaby got.
But then again, even if he had made it here he would have tried to move to Barca as well, so no real loss there.
Funny how we had to pay 5 million in settlement for Merida, paid him for four years, then lost him for free.
That is why the whole foreign youth FETISH is an utter waste of time. Invest ONLY in local kids … and if they dont work out you go out and buy EXPERIENCED players… but not at Arsenal.
We continue to buy 16 year old latino midgets for 5 million pounds each while paying them good wages for 4-5 years then letting them go …. we’re like a freaking charity.
To continue our back and forth….
I rather agree with what you’re saying here about trying to get young foreign (esp. Spanish) talent. The lure of better weather, the native language, a more technical (gentler?) league, etc., as we’re seeing, is too much….
It may even begin to happen with our French/Francophone (wussy?) boys as that League seems to be stabilizing and able to offer decent money to “proven” players. The “obsession” with foreign/young players may be turning Arsenal into THE great stepping stone club for boys needing to get some exposure before returning to their “home” leagues.
But I think AW/the club is aware of this and has/have been willing to (over?)spend on young British talent, most notably, Walcott and Ramsey and many others who are working their way through the reserves or doing loan spells. Will these (lavish, in the cases of Theo and Aaron?) investments pay off, or are they just over-rated, injury prone wastes of our time and money?
I would also argue that the trend at the Club is towards buying experienced players….The last few transfer windows have brought us players like Eduardo, Sagna, Arshavin, Vermaelen, Campbell, and now Chamakh, with only a few youngsters (Ramsey and Galindo) thrown in. (Who am I forgetting?) The counter-argument (which you made above) is that we’ve needed these buys because we’re counting on over-paid, under-proven talent who either fail to come good (Eboue, Nasri, Diaby, Denilson, Senderos, Djourou for example) or others who have used Arsenal as the aforementioned stepping stone (Hleb, Ade, Kolo?).
The Ministry of Truth line (currently ringing hollow for me…) is that with our solid financial footing we can lock down players to long contracts and create a good team dynamic that resists bids from other clubs and breaks the cycle. Like I said above, Cesc to Barca may be a special case and we may need to accept it as such. If he goes and we collapse, the MoD squad may find itself with a new member (me!). I still think we’re a bit better than that, but the jury is most definitely out….
Thanks for putting that up, DAG. The (somewhat) humble Father/Agent/Catalan element is a perfect subterfuge for Cesc. In the minds of Arsenal fans he’s still got an out (i.e., our fans will still support him if he stays), yet he’s helping Barca leverage the hell out of the situation. For me, personally, it’s wearing a bit thin….
It’s getting interesting in trying to scout the twin towers of La Liga for the future. With Mourinho moving to Real, you can’t help feeling that he will strengthen that squad, especially defensively, and be happy to win and draw the bigger matches (romping the easy ones with his inherited stars up front). Frankly, Barca need to do the same…You simply can’t give up goals in bunches like they did and expect that the attack will always win the day, witness the 2nd leg vs Inter. Cesc, at the moment, and as the WC will likely prove, is a luxury for Barca (and Spain). However, if Spain can win the WC there will be plenty of momentum to not break up the attacking group of Villa/Xavi/Iniesta/Cesc….(and then you add in Messi!) It’s a very big IF at the moment.
So, for now, Barca are in a very powerful position and for us, it sucks. Arseblog’s got a good piece today on what incredible BS it is.
Personally, I’m pretty down on our boy for doing what he’s doing. The temptation to try and join up with the bigger team in the easier league and come on for glorious cameos WILL win him more trophies(and maybe prolong his career), but it is the lesser challenge. I know I’m in the minority, but given some strengthening in this transfer window, mostly at the back, some better luck with injuries, AND a dedicated, talented, on-pitch leader and, I believe, Arsenal are ready to take the next step. But maybe I’ve got more faith in Cesc (and in the team) than he does….
It’s almost unimaginable to believe that we can do better against the big teams AND continue to build on the character and belief we showed against the teams below us, but our players are (overall) getting better year to year, the teams above us not as much (although Chelsea can always buy their way out of trouble, maybe)…. And Cesc’s (hollow?) shows of leadership were big moments for us last season. A few more of those, a NORMAL quantity of injuries, etc. and I think we’re gonna step up.
Without Cesc, we would seem to be doubly screwed but if he’s not up for the challenge we should probably let him go, sooner than later, for as much money as possible, and try to move forward. It would be a huge blow to AW and the promise that our financial strength allows us to resist these types of bids, but the whole Catalan Boy element makes Cesc to Barca different. A long dramatic back and forth seems bad for our club, but losing our boy also seems insufferable. IMO, he COULD be a huge part of leading Arsenal to a demonstrably higher level, and THEN slot in for Barca after the balance in Spain is restored (and I believe that will happen with Real under Mourinho), WHEN THEY REALLY WILL NEED HIM, but if he can’t imagine that scenario, then f**k him.
If Fabregas does not buy the Ministry of Truth fairytale, fuck him???
Thats a bit harsh, man!
“I know I’m in the minority, but given some strengthening in this transfer window, mostly at the back, some better luck with injuries, AND a dedicated, talented, on-pitch leader and, I believe, Arsenal are ready to take the next step. ”
1) We are not going to strengthen in this window … we are just going to replace those who have left.
2) Better luck with injuries? Come on now, its been five years and running now. In the last three Arsenal have already monopolized the having-their-players- legs-snapped market. Praying for luck wont cut it.
3) Dedicated, talented, on-field leader? Wow! I thought the MoT ideal was “collective” leadership? The club has been pussified for so long for that to happen. The club is filled with mediocre, arrogant, underaged and overpaid losers who will probably NOT listen to any common sense from an experienced vet anyway.
All this considered is it still surprising that Fabregas wants out??
Despite what you think we are NOT on the cusp of greatness.
‘Sbeen awhile since that (tropical?) vacation and the Kool-aid you were drinking earlier in the year….(Weather here also sucks, giving me MY bad attitude…)
The MoT is definitely at odds with the MoD (Ministry of Doom) that has come back with a vengeance since we stumbled there at the end when with some horrific GK errors and some under-inspired play from our more technical/less spirited “French wussies” (Nasri/Diaby, others?) failed to keep us going through a final false dawn….
I am naive, probably a Noobtard, etc., But I do crave a certain narrative of triumph and transcendence that may never come….(Yet, I shall continue to hope…)
Cesc, for all the correct personal reasons (not wanting to be the next Gunner with his bone through his sock or foot dangling in the air….) and because it’s nice to touch a trophy (if not be the one it’s handed to for the ceremonial thrust skyward…) wants out–The glory is too far off, and that’s fine, but he’s passing up a chance for a whole different sort of personal satisfaction….
I agree that we are not on the “Cusp of Greatness” and that we have a mountain in front of us, but I still think we’re starting to climb it and that (with our prudent financial approach) we will continue to do so. Losing Cesc is a BIG step backwards, but we are not as weak as many in the MoD squad would have us believe. Of course, as always, WTF do I know?….
IMO, Cesc either gets on board or we should cut bait…It’s still “before the WC” (which is where you poop in some parts of the world….) and it’s time for him to say what’s what….
yea, that kool aid period was short lived … it is a burning 90 degrees out here in western NY tho, so nothing to do with the weather.
the thing about passing up a whole different type of satisfaction is a bit of a stretch…. he plays with them day in day out, he KNOWS that they cant cut it … and he knows Wenger isnt bringing anybody in … so whats the point waiting around?
Personally, I dont see how we will be stronger than Liverpool (of the recently concluded season) – without Fabregas.
Gallas and Sol seem like they would be gone … Arshavin is very restless.
We have massive HOLES in defense, center midfield and between the sticks.
Without Fabregas, we dont make top four … except we really dip into the transfer market.
The full Francesc Fabregas Sr. Interview (from Spanish Radio)
Q: Can Cesc handle the situation, it must be difficult?
A: “Cesc is mature enough. Now he has to focus on the World Cup and leave his future for the moment. Now he has to enjoy the World Cup and only think about that.”
Q: The reports are that your son has already done everything to smooth a transfer to Barca.
A: “I tend to think that too. He has decided. It appears more clearly that he will do it. Whatever happens, he has great respect for Arsenal. When these things happen I think that there can be misunderstandings and I think that everyone should just respect the decision of the player. He has had his time there and given everything. He has been there since he was very young. They have looked after him so well and turned him into a man and his game has improved so much.
“We find ourselves at a moment when we have to start talking about money and the situation could change. Arsenal should understand that Cesc has been and is, because now I am talking about this but he could still be there next season, always giving his best to the club that have made him their captain. They also know what he has done for them. What should be in Cesc’s favour is that, in the end, he could finish knowing that the club understands his situation.”
Q: It is believed that the relationship between Arsenal and Cesc has been so good that it would be highly unlikely that Cesc would do something to harm that now.
A: “I do not think that these things need happen in life. Everything can be talked about. Cesc has been very clear. He mentioned it early to give himself the best chance. This would have caused a lot more bother had it been brought up after the World Cup because then there is not much time to react and look for a new player. At 23 he has shown his maturity and it has been only him that has spoken without any agents talking. He has wanted to speak out because he did not want to have any problems. It is a choice and now time is required so that a solution can be found.”
Q: It appears that Arsenal will take some convincing?
A: “Like everyone. If you have a player, who is the most important one in the team, speaking out, then it is normal that you want to do all you can. What Arsenal has done is normal. I cannot justify or go against what they are doing. Now it is a question of how they feel, what they say and how they see things. They need to talk. I thought that this might be quick, all done, and now I see that maybe we will need to talk more to sort things out.
“After what I have seen this week this could be a long process, although I hope not. There are times when you just have realise that finishing it all as soon as possible would be best. But this is not how this appears.”
Q: Do you think Barca will work hard to sign Cesc?
A: “From what they have said it appears that they will because he is a player they really want.”
Q: Cesc has only one choice to make? To go to Barca or stay at Arsenal?
A: “Yes, that is the decision. Barca have said not to listen to anyone else that is not Barca. That means that evidently there are other clubs that are interested and would not have the difficulty that Barca would have to pay the amount that Cesc would currently cost. To avoid that he wanted to clarify that he will only either stay at Arsenal or go to Barca.”
Q: Some Barca fans do not think that Barca should break the bank to sign Cesc.
A: “Everyone thinks that the world of football can be a little insane. I have a small construction business and deal with budgets of €2,000 or €3,000 and all this is beyond me. Is Cesc worth this amount? They talk about millions like they were nothing. It does make people nervous but what can you do if it is your son and he is involved in all this?
“I understand that people are all discussing this, but one has to understand Cesc’s circumstances. When he first left he said he would not go back, but things happen. Now this interest is mutual. A valuation is the difficult part. I am in the middle.”
Q: It does seem that this will all go well and Cesc will end up at Barca.
A: “I do not know what to say. I do not want to say either way because I don’t know. We have no experience in all this. I would like Cesc to leave Arsenal with his head held high because they have given him everything.
“As his father I am very grateful for the way that Arsenal have taken care of him. People have to remember that he went to Arsenal when he did because they had a good plan and because he liked their style. Money talks in football. But if Cesc had not succeeded at Arsenal he would have been very unhappy.
“When he went nobody guaranteed us that he would make it, it was just the idea. I only hope that he can leave on good terms and if he can come here, because that is what he wants, then he can show all the Barca fans what a great player he is and they would welcome him.”
Another Anelka like protracted saga in the making?
I dont understand why Wenger is still waiting around doing nothing.
Why isnt Wenger trying to change the on-going dynamic.
Why not go out and plug the team’s holes before the World Cup … so that he can then take his time playing hardball with Barca to maximize the sell amount.
Isnt it better to buy NOW … when we dont yet have the money than after we get the Fabregas money and everybody jacks their prices higher?
Get in Joe Hart, Gary Cahill, Scott Parker or Orlando Engeelar, get in Joe Cole on a free. All for less than 30 million. That is very well within our budget.
Joe Cole is on a free, yet Wenger is doing absolutely nothing about that. Imagine if there was a FRENCH 28 year old Chelsea vet who had won 2 league titles and was available for FREE … Wenger would have snapped him up ASAP. eg. Gallas, Silvestre … even Diarra to an extent.
The guy is so biased its incredible.
In Wenger’s mind, everything is just rosy in the garden and the dynamic is wonderful.
Yep, we’re watching someone in the final throes of lunacy.
I agree we SHOULD be doing something NOW.
But we don’t know if we actually are, or aren’t… do we?
I read Campbell has opened talks with Celtic, which means we haven’t approached him or tried to tie him up.
That makes no sense, unless we aren’t really interested in having him back.
I saw Mark Schwarzer mentioned with us. Really? at 37, is that what we want, a band-aid approach until Flapianski steps in?
I’d love some activity and action by the Arsenal pre-WC.
But I have seen this game before, over and over… we’ll likely do NOTHING until late July or August, and say the “special players” were not available.
Winning the profit league is actually going to mean something –
Tomorrow UEFA is set to enact its financial constraints on member clubs/leagues.
“The Premier League had argued that clubs should be allowed to be continually subsidised by owners, but was overruled, as Uefa insisted it wanted to steer clubs across Europe to a more sustainable existence. Yesterday a Premier League spokesman acknowledged the clubs will have to rein in their spending in order to comply.”
3/4’s of the Premier League clubs would be affected by UEFA’s financial fair play rules.
The rules will go into effect for the 2012-2013 season. If clubs fail to comply they will not be able to qualify for any European competitions.
In some respect, that would be a salary cap of sorts.
As long as it applies to ALL leagues, its not a bad thing.
But it will be debated and challenged endlessly.
It could even lead to a “break-away” Super League, because the bigger teams will say … screw you, we’ll do what we want, we MAKE the sport.
I have always considered the threat of the “Super League” as an idle one.
No major team wants to sever ties from their national leagues … no matter what they say.
Ofcourse Celtic and Rangers are probably the exception.
The fans that fill stadiums live for the league games, the city and regional rivalries and the various national subplots.
Advice and comment coming in from all quarters on Cesc.
Hleb advises Cesc AND Clichy to stay (didn’t know Clichy was in the picture).
I’ve always said that I find it illogical for Fabregas to join Barcelona NOW given their relative strength and stability in central midfield. However, when his Dad (who is his agent?) weighs in with the normal misguided dross so favoured by agents and others wanting to paint a better (sentimental) picture on what boils down to a breach of contract you know where all this is heading. Bye bye Cesc.
Vela also has thoughts (probably a byproduct of being idle for so long ;-) ). He thinks Cesc will go, and feels this is quite a legitimate response to us WAIT FOR IT….. drum roll….. NOT BEING WINNERS. Ouch. What about CL football for 12 years – isn’t that a win? Apparently not. See ya, thanks for the opportunity to train at a top club. What happened to this wonderful vision of overpaying a bunch of underperforming foreign youngsters and then watching them collectively bloom?
That makes it, Diarra, Flamini, Hleb, Adebayor, and now the daddy of them all Cesc. Are they using Arsenal as a stepping stone to better things? Or were they sold the line Arsenal would soon be a truly competitive team and then made their own judgement based on their own experience at the club? I think it starts with the later and ends with the former.
Notwithstanding paid football is a mercenary pursuit, there’s a distinct lack of loyalty at Arsenal. For me it starts with the selection of the club captain. Perhaps it’s time to question the wisdom in appointing your most high profile public star as captain. Vieira… Henry…. Gallas…. Cesc. As though captaincy comes as a reward for having the biggest reputation. No doubt, Vieira’s wherewithal made him a fine leader. Yet…. I would have thought ideally you want a loyal leader, a guy that sets the tone as a player committed to the club. That simply doesn’t seem to register with Arsene. I’d be looking for a talented stable British player where there would be a greater likelihood that he would contentedly stay at the club for a long time.
No doubt van Persie will be the next club captain.
OH. and as expected.
ARSENAL LOSE MERIDA to ATLETICO MADRID.
He signed a 4 year deal there.
Good luck Fran.
Yes. They even win trophies. Oh, wait. They won the UEFA Cup. That’s a fake trophy, unlike the EPL 3rd place, or EPL 4th place trophy. That’s a real accomplishment.
Ministry of truth? Far from it. What is the truth is if we keep Fabregas and add a descent player or two, this team can be a great team. I’m not so disappointed in the results of this season that I fail to recognize what our team is capable of.
I guess I wasn’t clear when I said that Fab wouldn’t suffer the same fate as Flamini and Hleb upon his departure. Fab’s a good player but Xavi and Iniesta are also Catalunian while Messi is Messi. Who’s Fabregas going to start ahead of at Barcelona? As for Rustu, he was a crap keeper who had a good World Cup.
I am pretty damned sure Fabregas will do just fine at Barcelona!
If he plays less than he would at Arsenal… that’s probably a GOOD THING at aged 23, and the people he will be playing with will ELEVATE his game, as opposed to dragging it down.
I think Fabregas is a slight tick above “good player”!
;)
This team can NOT be a great team without some SERIOUS changes.
A decent player or two will not do it.
We were beaten down badly by the good teams. Its not close.
But on the positive side, we are in a fantastic position financially, the profits are high, and selling Fabregas will result in massive profit on that business transaction.
This will lower the debt on the stadium, the board will be very happy about the numbers, and we will be closer to being debt free from the Emirates.
I am confident Arsene will have us in the hunt for a Top 4 spot regardless of whether Cesc stays or goes.
Here is an interesting stat. We all know that ManU’s second top scorer this season was “Own Goal”. Guess what? Only three players have scored more for Arsenal – Cesc, Arsh and vP.
Folks like Sicky, Nasri, Dudu have all scored less. Bendy has the same # of goals as “Own Goal”.
doesn’t matter how they go in, as long as they go in!
No problem for Arsenal, but for Sicky, Dudu and Nasri, it is a not good news.
Many of us already said that the first two cannot be relied upon to contribute consistently. Sadly, Nasri has also been poor this season.
Hleb says stay.
Cesc’s father says “HE WILL BE AT BARCA NEXT SEASON”.
Barca say … we’ll chase him all Summer if necessary…
So, he’s going… he wants to go, his father wants him to go, Barcelona want him at their club.
Its all down to the money.
Do you / we want a long protracted battle all Summer?
Do we let him go to the World Cup and possibly get injured?
Do we want to come out of the World Cup, when we start training like 3 days after the Final, and not have this situation rectified?
Why not either come out and say.
NOT HAPPENING unless you pay the 50 Million (or whatever figure we attach)…
and then Arsenal should NOT COMMENT at all.
Hard to do, with all the media in the UK and Spain clamoring for this story…
but Fred was right with some of his course of action thoughts…
SIGN A FEW PLAYERS NOW… make a splash… tell Cesc that if they
aren’t willing to meet our valuation, we won’t even discuss selling.
He has 4 years left on his contract.
Or.
Just sell him for the 30 Million they offer, before the WC, and
go meekly into the reality that we are a selling club… and cue up
all the old cliche’s about “no player bigger than the team”… the young players can fill his role… returning players from injury are like new signings… if there are 1 or 2 “special” players, we will look to sign them…
;)
Hleb’s urging Cesc to stay. Hindsight is 20/20.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=790027&sec=transfers&cc=4716
I also read that Lassana Diarra has a stomach injury and won’t be able to go to the World Cup. Instead of calling up another midfielder, (Flamini) Domenech has decided to go with an injured Gallas. How far has Flamini fallen?
If Fabregas was to leave, he wouldn’t start for Barca unless they played him along side Sergio Busquets instead of Yaya Toure. This is Fabregas’ more natural position and playing in England may have given him a bit of robustness to do well in Spain. I’m sure Fab wouldn’t suffer the same fate as Hleb and Flamini upon their departure but he’s not playing ahead of Xavi, Messi, or Iniesta.
The grass isn’t always greener and Francesc has a tough choice to make; to be the man in north London or be one of many in Barcelona. You never really know about the future. Arsenal are on the cusp of greatness and he’s got his two best mates in football who deciced to leave Arsenal and have fallen from grace. I’m sure if Hleb could go back, he would tell his wife that she would have to learn to deal with the busy North London. Likewise, if Flamini knew what the future held, he wouldn’t have been so quick to head to Italy. I hope Cesc stays but am resigned to losing him. We’ll see how it works out.
The whole theory doesnt hold for Fab for one major reason … he is a Catalan boy.
The fans and establishment there ALWAYS stand by their boys. And if they buy him they will surely play him.
Look at Valdes for example … they replaced Rustu with him because Rustu wasnt “great” … Valdes went on to commit a bunch of howlers in his first two starting seasons … yet the fans never turned on him. If he were from any other country they would have booted him out just three months in.
So rest assured Cesc will not only get a starting role but that they will be patient with him too.
PS: Arsenal on the cusp of greatness?? Never figured you as a ministry of truth guy, Josh ;-)
That’s the thing. We’re nowhere near the cusp of greatness.
It’s all a big con.
oh, we’re not really shooting for “greatness” now… are we?
that’s asking an awful lot.
we are shooting for very goodness.
I believe we have been very good enough for the past 5 seasons, to get into the Champions League…(though its not really a “CHAMPIONS” league, is it)
Do you want to talk about FINANICAL greatness?
well. we are on the CUSP of that… who else is?
Also: You cant compare Cesc with Flamini or Hleb.
Both of the latter are inherently flawed players who played one half of a great season and milked it for what it was worth.
Cesc is in a completely different boat.
agree that Flamini and Hleb turned a good season, into a move …
neither are remotely close to Cesc in terms of talent / skill.
Anybody watching England-Mexico (friendly)?
So Far Vela looks far better than Theo, among the young guns on display….
Of course we’re only 5 mins in….
5 minutes in, and you’re ripping Theo!
Great.
No, no…Theo looked OK (except for a misplaced backpass and a cross to no one…)It’s just that Vela looked silky smooth and dangerous….in the first several minutes….I had to get to various chores and didn’t watch after those Spuds (Crouch, King) put their heads together and scored the 1st goal.
Don’t assume the worst from everyone ;-) (here on YAMA….)
I heard (in passing) a halftime mention that “Vela should’ve scored–Great save from Green” and a full-time suggestion that Theo was “more effective than he has been lately for Arsenal” or something to that effect.
3-1 to England and I may try to watch it later….
5 minutes in, and you are saying Vela is playing far better than Theo!
5 MINUTES!
Give the kid a break, please!
Theo was just OK. A few flashes of brilliance and also some chicken head plays. Must say he also worked extremely hard defensively when Glen Johnson went marauding up the pitch.
Missed a wide open Rooney in the box because he was dribbling without his head up.
Vela was denied by a great save but also hit a very weak right footed shot when one and one with the GK again.
However, Vela’s movement and ball control was a delight to behold.
England was totally outplayed by Mexico in the first half but still ended up 2-1 at the intermission. Crouch was initially offside on the second goal, which was not called, and actually did a Maradonna “hands of god” imitation to get the ball into the net.
I have always asked, who do our players LEARN from … that was my first thought when the whole “youth project” was starting?
Who is Walcott, Nasri, etc learning from?
The only person who has really benefited from a mentor type player is Vermaelen. Thats why he played a blinder in combo with Gallas.
I dont think Fabregas is even looking for stars to come join him … he just wants players around him that can do their freaking job on a consistent basis so he can do his. And he is not being afforded that.
I cant imagine working in an environment where your co-workers are Denilson, Eboue, Walcott, Diaby, Almunia, Fabianski. And thats not even getting to the other players who are skilled but not exactly pulling full weight like Clichy, Arshavin, Rosicky, Vela, Eduardo.
I personally would have bailed out last year.
When someone bails out of the Barca youth team to come to London to make it you know he is not some dud who would accept the annual top 3 “trophy” as legit.
so because Gallas was average with Toure, its Toure’s fault completely… and when Gallas and Vermaelen play well together, that means its Gallas who is responsible.
You can drive his dune buggy all you like, (until he crashes it again)… but he’s not nearly as good as he thinks he is, and he won’t exploit Arsenal at his age for a big raise and a 2-year extension.
Maybe when he plays a full-season again, we should consider it.
Where are all the teams coming to get William Gallas this off-season?
I mean he’s Mr.Wonderful… everybody must want him.
Staggy, why do you love making imbecilic remarks?
Where was it mentioned in my comment that it was Toure’s fault? I didnt even mention Toure once in my comment. Infact when has ANY body on this blog ever stated that the reason Gallas/Toure didnt work out was Toure’s fault?
I have to make imbecillic remarks with you… otherwise you’d be lost!
too bad your boy Gallas won’t be back.
he might be jobless, because many folks are tired of his act.
Again, I’ll repeat the questions because I know you are quite slow …
“Where was it mentioned in my comment that it was Toure’s fault? I didnt even mention Toure once in my comment. Infact when has ANY body on this blog ever stated that the reason Gallas/Toure didnt work out was Toure’s fault?”
Come back when you can answer those two simple questions, staggy boy.
I know this might be tough for you to understand…
but if you are saying Toure and Gallas weren’t good together, Gallas and Vermaelen ARE good together, and Gallas is MORE responsible for the pairing working…
based on that, I will read into your man-crush on Gallas and say you are inferring Toure was the weak link.
Let me know if you need the definition of “inferred”…
you profess how wonderful Billy is, even though he doesn’t play full seasons, was not good as captain, and at least 5 players in the squad won’t even talk to him… he’s 32, asking for a big raise and a 2 year contract?!
yeah, that’s what we need at the Arsenal, more guys like William Gallas!
I think we’ll survive without him, somehow.
Hahahahahahahahahah…..nice try staggy boy … AGAIN I’ll repeat the questions:
“Where was it mentioned in my comment that it was Toure’s fault? I didnt even mention Toure once in my comment. Infact when has ANY body on this blog ever stated that the reason Gallas/Toure didnt work out was Toure’s fault?”
Those are TWO easy-peasy questions.
Come back when you can answer them.
JD, I agree with the thrust of what you’re saying re Gallas/Vermaelen. I would add that they were good for eachother. That’s why each clearly exhibited a sense of enjoyment in their play, and why Vermaelen settled so quickly and seamlessly. This sense of a good working partnership is really important and why keeping Gallas has merit.
On Toure/Gallas – the team enjoyed some periods of relative calm/success with them at the back, yet that was not the norm imo.
On Cesc, I very much agree. He’s stopped believing in Wenger’s mantra, like a lot of supporters and observers. To me there is always a sense of deep disappointment when player of rare ability plays all his career in a team that fails to deliver success. Real sad.
I also like your point about players learning and developing from eachother. Would Henry be Henry if he was a 21 year old in this team? Likely not. Players germinate in their environment, the better that is the better the opportunity for them to develop. Fabregas is isolated, if there were another 2 players of similar calibre and influence within the team it may be quite different.
I was musing on the defining players that Wenger added to the club over his era at Arsenal FC 1996-2010. The players of such ability and bearing that they were at the heart of our success. We know he inherited some (Adams, Keown, Bergkamp were enormous and others existing players contributed too) but I was thinking of the players he recruited. I would count in this group; Vieira (1996), Henry (1999), Pires (2000), Campbell (2001) and I would add Fabregas (2003). What is educational is that the first 4 all enjoyed their success in the context of a winning experienced team, they bloomed in a positive environment where the collective and expected standards were high. Since the breakup of that team in 2005- there has been no success, dwindling experience and note this NO additional players who one could call ‘defining’. Fabregas is the last real GEM to appear. Some might argue van Persie – yet to date he has been simply too absent and too fragile to be counted in this group. If, by some miracle, he is now over his fragility and can put in a shift of 4 or 5 good seasons at Arsenal history may include him – best wait for that though before blowing the trumpet.
So, Fabregas is a lone presence, a player of top quality in a team that is badly lacking another 2 or 3 players like him. With those 2 or 3 players added to Fabregas and the likes of Gallas, Vermaelen, Sagna, Song and Arshavin this team could genuinely challenge for success. Without those 2 or 3 players we’re whistling Dixie…. and Fab knows it.
probably part of the conversation between Fab and Arsene.
Fab: Who are you bringing in this Summer?
Arsene: We are very close to winning the title. The young players returning from injury are like new signings.
Fab: I’m out of here now. I want to go. Thank you for your help, but we aren’t winning with this squad!
Kiwi, I know that Gallas/Toure looked bad at times but they looked good more than bad. My whole point is Vermaelen looked decidedly worse with Gallas not in the team than Gallas ever looked without Toure in the team. Bottom line, Gallas has found a set of circumstances that clearly favors him and is looking to take advantage of it. We’ll see what happens.
Lucio is a player I’ve liked since his “neverkusen” days but he’s gotten older and too slow to play in the Premier League.
Congrats to Snjeider. He’s a dynamite player and really didn’t want to leave Real Madrid. He left there kicking and screaming so was very unattractive to any other team. However, he got off to a fantastic start in Italy. Credit Jose Mourinho.
If I were Cesc Fabregas, I would want to leave too. After watching two teammates get chopped down as well as the near misses both he and Hleb suffered that, despite being illeagal, are welcome in England, it’s not a tough choice. Another reason is because Fabregas is close to being as good as he’s going to be at Arsenal. When he was younger, he had Bergkamp, Henry, and Pires as mentors. Even after they left, he had Hleb and Rosicky to look up to. But with Hleb gone and Rosicky iffy with his health, who’s going to help him continue to develop?
Wenger’s a great coach but the reality is very few people learn their job from their boss. In nearly every job, people learn from their peers; their more experienced colleagues. What player is going to help Fab improve at Arsenal? However, at Barcelona, he’s got the best playmaker in the world still on top of his game there in Xavi. He’s also got Iniesta and Messi and the ideas they can provide to help improve his game.
No player so young should be the best player on their team. When I coached U-15 ODP, I used to tell my kids that if you’re the best player on your team, you need to find a new team. If you have to, go up to U-17, then do that. It’s the only way to coutinue to to improve. That’s why I would tell Fabregas to go and learn from Xavi before his game starts to falter. As an Arsenal fan, I’d hate to see him go but, being objective, I would suggest to him leave this summer.
Good point on Cesc. What exactly will he have to gain as an Arsenal player going forward.
We would have to bring in 2 top-class players just to turn his head a bit at considering to stay another year.
But, at the end of the day, he IS under contract, and if Barcelona low-ball us with their offers, we can say, NO. SORRY. F*CK OFF.
http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=1714
According to this article, the banner was removed at HT.
Big Brother?
can’t have any dissent.
they crush that.
Jose at Real should be great fun!
What players will he sign?
Can he beat Barca to the title?
Will he win the CL in his first year?
Can he survive for more than one year?
Pity I don’t get La Liga in my part of the world.
He will most likely do very well at Madrid.
Will win the La Liga in the first season but probably not the CL. All is possible for the second season.
I doubt Madrid beat Barca next year.
Barca are re-loading again, even after winning La Liga this year.
Already improved.
And probably gonna have Cesc in there too!
Madrid were just a couple of points off even though they were a complete mess.
With a proper tactician, a strong defense and proper utilization of players like Ronaldo and Kaka Madrid are going to be a far stronger unit.
The whole “reloading” argument doesnt hold … Madrid “reloaded” last summer too.
– He will probably sign a couple of defenders and a couple of African strikers/wingers. Thats his M.O.
– I think he will definitely beat Barca to the title.
– CL? Not in the first year.
– He can probably survive that long cos he will be smart enough to put in a very expensive sacking clause in there.
All depends WHO Madrid bring in.
Villa already at Barcelona, that’s one great player.
Cesc likely to arrive.
That’s two.
We’ll see what Madrid do.
They certainly won’t be the favorite.
Despite what you think, football is not a battle for who has the most “big-names”. For someone who claims to watch a lot of soccer you should no that.
A team needs competent players and 2 or 3 great players … after that ALL that is important is team balance, proper player management and masterful tactics.
Mourinho can provide those three.
Fred, your opinion.
It will depend who Mourinho and Real Madrid bring in.
That doesn’t change. They didn’t have enough to win La Liga, and failed in the CL as well.
In MY OPINION, Barcelona IMPROVE with the signing of David Villa. You can doubt that, but I’ve seen him enough to know he’s got great skills.
We both know how good Cesc is, and surrounded by the talent of Barcelona, I am sure he’d be even better and improve faster.
Mourinho helps Real Madrid, but they still aren’t as good as Barcelona, as currently constituted.
The team with the most “big names” dont always win.
Just because Barca buy “glory” names and Mourinho would buy more tactically defensive players doesnt mean Barca “improve” by the factor of the star player’s perception.
Football and life isnt that linear.
At this level and especially in Spain, its all about the balance and tactics. Thats how a team like Inter can overcome a team like Barca … and Bayern can overcome Man U.
Madrid won in 2008 without bringing any really flashy players … the next year Barca took it back and won the treble by just getting rid of Ronaldinho and buying a couple of defenders.
Mourinho is more than good enough to overcome the mere 3 points difference between them.
both teams are littered with the biggest names in the sport!
Inter overcame Barca in a 2 match series. Not over a full season of football.
Over 2 legs, just about anything is possible.
I think you under-estimate how good Barcelona is.
You will find out that TWO matches will easily overcome the 3 points difference between them.
I watch all Barca games … and have ever since Johann Cruyff was their manager in the early nineties. I can tell you their starting lineup everyseason from 92 till date. So your claims that I “underestimate” Barca dont hold at all.
Three points separate the two teams currently.
I personally think Cesc will still be here for one more year but some abstract thoughts on the whole saga:
– I wonder how much of an effect the Ramsey incident has on the whole thing. The B’ham game shortly after, he was at the end of an unpunished knee high challenge (the one that bruised his bone I think). He has also seen first hand how much of an impact a bad injury can have and I’m sure it must be playing in his mind to be in a team that is targetted more than others (another case for more 6 feet plus hard men, as a deterrent like others have suggested here).
-I know he says he wants it all sorted by the world cup, but I think the WC may play an important role in the final decision. If Spain find themselves doing well with a starting 11 that includes all 3 of Cesc, Xavi and Iniesta (and Busquets as a 4th but to a lesser extent), then it may make up his mind more than anything else. Winners like Cesc want to play all the time and sure he would fight himself into almost any side in the world, but some ‘positive feedback’ if you will from the WC would help.
That said, I don’t think Spain will line up with all 3 together so fingers crossed there.
– I really hope we get a keeper before the WC. A solid one at that. Arsenal seems to be at a bit of a crossroad at the moment and every little thing could have significant ramifications at the direction we head off into. This includes our prospects for next season. all the way to Wenger’s future here at Arsenal.
If worst comes to worst, I’m just going to pray we luck out with injuries next season. Unrealistic I know, but if it happens, it may breed some continuity and build some chemistry and keep competition up even with our limited squad.
Someone (Nip I think) brought up the point of 4-4-2 vs 4-3-3 a while back. I would personally like us to switch back to 4-4-2. With a front 6 of
Nasri- Cesc- Song- Arsh
VP- Bendy/Chamakh (after he settles in)
It would light a fire up Theo/Diaby’s ass and give Cesc a lot more outlets to spray passes. And I think it’s a more balanced formation with regard to the personnel we have (i.e- Denilson doin f all when he’s in there and Diaby being a hit or miss during games). If Diaby were to work harder (big IF I know, from the evidence so far), then he has the potential to be one of the most effective CM’s in the league.
I didn’t know that Sneijder was signed for 12M by Inter.
Same as Arsene paid for Nasri.
Real Madrid are due a bonus of 3 million Euros on that transfer. There was a clause that if they won the CL this year, the fee for Sneijder would rise to 15 million.
There’s a lot I don’t like about Wenger but blaming him for not signing individual players (rather than criticizing his overall philosophy/strategy) is something I won’t do. Afterall, every single other team in Europe didn’t sign Sneijder as well.
I will happily pay 3M more on the Narsi transfer if he helped us win the CL. Wouldn’t you?
This is not an individual criticism. This is a comment on the overall philosophy. Arsene pays top dollar for young potential when experienced proven talent is available at around the same price. That is what most of us have been asking.
Not for Messi or Ronaldo, but for more of Arsh, Sneijder, etc.
The other point is that Arsene signs a non-teenage player only when he is signing a direct replacement. Dudu for Henry, Nasri for Hleb, Gallas for Campbell, Sicky for Pires, Verma for Toure and Chamakh for Ade (delayed). Arsh and Sagna were the only exceptions I can remember. Hardly ever to strengthen the team and improve depth.
Another example is Lucio.
He was available last summer and Arsene needed a CB when Djo was injured long term.
Yup hopefully we pay that kind of money for a CB and a Goalie. I still think Cesc will stay. I would love, like someone suggested above, someone like Parker to join. Highly doubt that Wenger would see his value in relation to the fee he would command though.
I wonder what would have happened if Arsene had joined Real last summer.
Would he have signed super stars like Ronaldo and Kaka or gone for 17/18 year old unknowns?
Would the Real management have given him any say in the transfers?
Would the Real fans have supported a campaign which only aims for a CL spot?
Do you honestly feel that if Wenger were at Real that he would be aiming to finish just in the top four?
As for the transfers, I think he would have gone for youth as well as established stars. He would have been encouraged by the board as well to spend whatever was necessary.
I think one of the few similarities between him there and here would be his attacking philosophy and his reluctance to coach/stress on defence.
And the management wouldn’t have much of a choice in the transfers. Wenger would never join under such terms.
Wenger would have been fired by February.
Mourinho and Bergkamp would be a good management duo.
On Mourinho, my attitude to him is similar to my feelings toward Chelsea. In early days I dismissed them as financial steroid-induced wannabe’s. Well, time passes and everyone gets judged by their results. Chelsea have earned a level of my respect (only a level ;-) ), Mourinho even moreso, if football is entertainment – Mourinho provides it in spades and gets results everywhere he goes. Clever guy, very tactical.
Bayern looked a little like us, lots of possession but a bit toothless.
Say what you will of Mour – he is a winner.
Comes to Chelsea and wins the title (last won in 1955?)
Goes to Inter and wins the CL (last won in 1965?)
he won the CL at PORTO!
nuff said.
he’s a great manager.
http://www.onlinegooner.com/editorial/index.php?id=245
Seriously, Arsene couldn’t be bothered to smile during Chamakh’s unveiling. Clearly he had other things on his mind. I mean, your best player and the foundation of your youth strategy asks to leave, it must be a BIG blow.
I’m gonna sit in the GDC this morning watching the 2nd half of the promotion play-off—Quite the barn-burner already with Blackpool leading Cardiff 3-2 at the half—and then, of course, the CL final….
David Villa was introduced yesterday (alone) at a half-filled Camp Nou and it looks like we’re in for a bit of a tug-of-war over Cesc, although you’d imagine that things could also get cleared up quickly, one way or another, with some quick, definitive statements early next week.
Chamakh is in, with a worried looking Wenger presenting him and his #29 shirt, but saying nothing on other matters. His addition makes me a bit more upbeat about our attacking options, I expect one of the bigger Brazilian clubs to announce that they’ve acquired Eduardo from us soon. From the little I’ve seen, Chamakh will help our overall pace up front and he seems to have a good head (if not a haircut). It will be a tougher year for Bendtner and Theo, at least until the injuries start up again.
More to come?….It should be an exciting few weeks…And then the world cup starts….
I will be in GDC for the CL final.
How can one miss it?
Both teams going for the treble.
Oh, how I miss the winning days. :(
Van Gaal has said that despite winning the double and reaching the CL final with a great chance to complete the treble, Bayern are still not among the elite of Europe.
No rubbish statements like – we have made it to the CL 10 years in a row, we deserve to be among the best, we don’t get enough credit, blah blah …
Now that is burning desire and ambition. To win and win again and win some more. To keep on being the best.
I will be watching the Bundesliga very keenly from next season. Haven’t chosen a team to support yet, but will see all the good games and maybe choose one by the end of the season.
I have watched both La liga and the Bundesliga extensively this season, and to a lesser extent, Serie A and the Lique 1.
The German league has quite a few teams that play “good ball” apart from Bayern. I love watching Offenheim as they play an exciting brand which is similar to the Arsenal of years past. They have 4 Brazilians normally starting, with a nice blend of young Germans, a few Africans and some other Eastern European types.
I watched a bit of Bundesliga this season and quite liked Leverkusen.
Not surprising, really, because they are just like Arsenal. They play quite well but when it comes to the clutch, they were found wanting.
Aptly named Neverkusen.
“You guys in the press are a little harsh saying we haven’t won anything for five years. What you are talking about is the Premier League and the Champions League. We could win the Carling Cup and the FA Cup if we made a huge effort. Arsene has advised us that he needs to rest players for those competitions. We are trying to win the Premier League and the Champions League. There is only one winner for both of those tournaments.”
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Pete’s a riot
Gallas/Vermaelen worked where Gallas/Toure didn’t. It’s pretty obvious that both Gallas and Vermaelen enjoy playing together which in itself is an important achievement. However simply being a good partnership doesn’t mean Gallas deserves anything he demands. There are parameters. There still needs to be a respect of the clubs wage structure and the fact that Gallas picks up more than his share of injuries – one would think that happening may even escalate with his age.
So…. if we can keep him for a reasonable wage – good, if not – his choice. You have to ask though why has Wenger left it until now to resolve this situation???
On Vermaelen he’s had a fantastic season. Can he repeat? I think that’s a maybe. Often when a guy comes in and plays a blinder from the off his next season is less stellar (Sagna is a recent case in point). So we should have realistic expectations of Vermaelen in season 2.
Chamakh looks a solid signing. The fact we knew he was coming together with his ‘solid’ not ‘spectacular’ image means his arrival is a bit underwhelming. Add to that our flumpy finish to yet another season and the timing of the Fabregas saga. None of this is Chamakh’s fault. He might prove to be a good one. Hope so.
Physically he looks quite lithe, so I hope there’s strength in those their sinews and in the mind to adapt to the rigours of the EPL.
Looking forward to Inter v Bayern – strong professional well managed teams, both seeking a treble and full of confidence. Lots of subplots, Mourinho’s an eternal subplot, van Gaal is saying he can’t confirm his future past next season.
Sagna was probably our most consistent defender all year.
He was SOLID.
Not sure what else you would want from him, and he didn’t miss many games to injury either.
His second season was LAST year, not the season that just ended.
Stag, insinuating that Vermaelen somehow made Gallas look good is absurd. We’ve all seen Gallas look good playing along side Vermaelen, Toure, Song, Djourou, Silvestre, and even Senderos.
The only time we’ve seen Vermaelen look good is playing with Gallas. He’s only got a few games in an Arsenal shirt where he hasn’t played along side Gallas and has managed to look very suspect.
Is there any logic to your claim or are you just arguing a point for the sake of arguing?
Gallas looked like shit on more than one occasion with Toure…
I don’t see him as this magician that you do.
He is not as good as you think he is, and not CLOSE to as good as HE THINKS HE IS.
He failed in a tandem with Toure. You blame Toure, I place a fair amount of blame on Gallas.
Toure was very good before Gallas got to Arsenal.
Barca set to sign Chamakh ???
This just in – Barcelona have announced that they are set to sign Marouane Chamakh from Arsenal.
Carlos Puyol has said it was his boyhood club and him coming back is a logical choice.
DAG, if we could sell him on … right now, for say… 10million GBP, The AFC would probably jump at it!
pure profit!
What’s scary is – you are probably right.
I thought Barca were atleast going to give Arsenal a few days before they moved in. And if I am not mistaken , Arshavin and Van Persie are also childhood Barca fans so their homecoming is also eagerly awaited.
If I were Wenger, and REALLY wanted to keep Fabregas, I do the following this next 7 days:
– Confirm the Chamakh purchase officially and announce it big.
– Re-sign Campbell to a new contract and announce it big.
– Go get Joe Hart, Gary Cahill and Scott Parker for 30 mill.
– Get Joe Cole on a free contract.
And announce all these four steps in a very short timeframe and in a big way, media and all, at the stadium with fans called in to see them juggling the ball, signing autographs and posing with their jersies.
At the same time, offer Fabregas a double your money 150k/wk contract extension and BEG him to stay … singing him a sappy RnB love song in the process (Justin Bieber perhaps?) … and at the same time make him be the one to “welcome” the new comers at the stadium.
All this while raising the rhetoric big time on Barca … call them out as classless, diss the La Liga extensively as just a sunny Scotland and Barca as broke, mention their half a billion debt several time. Get everyone related to the club singing from this same hymn book (ex-players, directors, players). Let it echo around the press a lil bit.
Effect: For about 30 million (not counting the wages money) we solve all our real problems in the team … while adding FOUR English players plus Chamakh and Campbell WHILE also getting very good press WHILE immediately sending an extremely strong jolt of excitement amongst all Gunners WHILE putting really strong pressure on Fabregas.
I have no doubt that with this course of action Fabregas will probably just sign the contract upgrade/extension. And we’ll go on to have a relatively strong season next year.
But then again what do I know.
PS: Rosicky, Eduardo, Almunia, Traore can then all be let go quietly without much fanfare for a total sum of lets just say 10 million.
Net expenditure on this “idea”: 20 million. That allows us to continue topping the profits league too.
Fred –
Arsenal have completed step 1 in your master plan:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1280298/Marouane-Chamakh-confirmed-Arsenal-new-boy-free-fighter-forward-line.html
The free video on Arsenal.com is actually funny and sad at the same time –
Funny in that as Chamakh says he is proud to be a Gunner he actually says Gooner.
Sad in that you can clearly see in Wenger’s face someone who has other things he is trying to take care of other than holding up a shirt for a photo.
As DAG stated, just signed Chamakh, holding up his shirt.
While Campbell could also sign soon, Celtic are “flattering” him with an offer, and if its 2 years, he will probably GO.
But it is very possible he’ll be tied up by Arsenal.
So Steps 1 and 2 are done and possible.
Step 3, isn’t really likely, is it?
Wenger doesn’t sign these type of players. They aren’t flash, they aren’t finesse.
I like both Parker and Cahill, but being British doesn’t help there cause in Wenger’s mind either.
On Fabregas, I don’t think he’ll be part of the parade of welcoming in new players at this point, especially if he does want to go to Barcelona now. He won’t play the dog and pony show.
AND… I am pretty sure I read that we already gave him a 3 Million GBP bonus and upped his salary to 110,000/wk…
(in a panic attempt to beg him to stay)
I like the thought process though… where we make bold moves, very soon, and public announcements, and just nullify the storm that’s brewing at the Arsenal Football Club… and the ensuing saga / circus that will follow Cesc’s status.
Call me optimistic – i think Sol stays.
Arsenal and CL football or 2nd place in a league where the best teams are only as good as the bottom half of the EPL.
Not sure if he would take less money at Arsenal for 1 year, instead of more money at Celtic for 2 years.
Sol doesn’t have much time as a player… have to maximize your income. He’d be more likely play for Celtic than he would at Arsenal too, it is a lesser league.
Sol stays!!!
Gallas = 50-50
Cole and Parker 0%
Hart 40%
Cahill 50%
Why would Cole be zero percent?? He is FREE !!!
The Wenger of 2001 would have been knocking down his door to get someone like Cole.
Yup Fred, but his salary demands are in line with, or higher than Cesc.
Don’t see that happening.
Gallas is about 10% stay – 90 go.
unless he comes off his contract demands, he’s done.
I think we’ve got a better chance getting Arteta than Cahill.
I was disappointed in Scott Parker’s move from Charlton. They were in the top four playing dynamite football and he was a regular for England. He left for money and it’s caused him to spend the best years of his career battling relegation. With the development of Song and Eastmond and Colquelin in the background, he’s simply not worth the dough at his age.
Concerning Joe Hart, some players look better when they’re playing for lesser teams but get exposed when playing for big teams. Take Americans, Brad Friedel and Tim Howard. They all look dynamite for their current teams but looked out of sorts when playing for Liverpool and Man United. You simply never know.
Whether Wenger would sign Cole would depend on whether he’s willing to put pressure on young Theo. Cole would be asking for top dollar and he hasn’t been a top-dollar player. Maybe after a good pre-season, he could do well for us. I don’t really care one way or the other.
You guys already know how I feel about signing Gallas.
I put Cahill at 50% because I think he is very similar to Smalling who Arsene went after in the January transfer window.
Have not seen enough of either of them to be able to say whether I like them or not.
It’s funny, Sachin, that back in ’04, the very topic that drew my interest to AA is an article discussing who would replace Dennis Bergkamp. I forgot who wrote that article but Bonaventure Kalou was the main name mentioned. I thought it an intriguing idea and was a big Kalou fan at the turn of the century. I watched him, along with Pierre van Hooidonk, Paul Bosvelt, Jon Dahl Tommason, little Leonardo, and our very own Robin van Persie play some beautiful football at Feyenoord, to include beating Lehmann and Rosicky’s BvB Dortmund in the ’02 UEFA Cup Final.
We talked about it over at AA and I thought Kalou was the only real possibility. He was to Feyenoord what Bergkamp was to Arsenal. Tommason, Bosvelt, and van Hooijdonk got all the plaudits, like Anelka, Henry, Vieira, Pires, and Ljunberg. But it was Kalou who made the Feyenoord go. Same thing goes for his time at Auxerre. As nice as it would have been, there is simply no one else like Bergkamp; even Kalou.
Josh, you bring back memories. I remember thinking how Bonaventure Kalou was going to the next big thing and he even had a huge transfer tag on his head. I lost track of him when he went to PSG and have no idea what happened with him after that.
Chamakh signs, so Arsene must be in London.
I think it is easy to put in opinions.
But the situation must be so hard for all involved.
Fabregas – hardest ( i can understand because even I am
planning of changing jobs, without hating anyone )
Wenger – same here, must be thinking of so many possiblities, contingency plans, etc. and a personal loss
( only Denilson leaving can be a bigger loss to him :P )
Board – the future of the club hangs in balance
There is no one correct course of action.
Hope everyone stays happy after whatever happens,
unlike what happened with the previous high
profile exits from Arsenal.
If Cesc were to be sold, it is yet again a SIGNAL to the other players.
Arsenal would have to move for a player(s) of his caliber, and more… in order to keep the better players on board the Good Ship Arsene.
If we sell Cesc, and don’t attempt to “re-load”… what will the likes of Arshavin, RVP, Clichy, Sagna … the better players in the club… think?
If RVP has a good WC, he’ll be sought after.
Clichy and Sagna have already been mentioned as targets.
You have to keep the nucleus of the team together for them to improve and acheive. Wenger says it every year, so even he believes it.
The difference with Cesc, is that he is 23… and the previous “high profile exits” were 30… and on the downward trend.
Arsene’s team and philosophy is BUILT around CESC.
What is the opinion on Avram Grant? Not saying he is the right man for Arsenal, but he has done a very good job at both Chelsea and Portsmouth. Plus he is such a classy fella, unlike some special ones. ;)
The squad needs a good shake. Not sure Avram is the best choice for that.
I agree though, he has acted with dignity under duress.
Are you folks still under some misguided notion or illusion that Wenger is in jeopardy of losing his job or leaving?
Based on WHAT, pray tell? Why would you discuss Grant to Arsenal at this point?
Why not discuss Gerrard Kaka Torres and Messi to Arsenal?
Because they’re not possible.
Neither is Wenger leaving this Summer.
Sorry.
Why do people talk about anything? Generally because it’s what they hope for.
Why do people on this site continue to discuss our player needs and transfer possbilities when it’s blatantly obvious that Wenger won’t act on them…. cause it’s what they hope for.
Why do people continue to follow Arsenal when we’ve had the same flaws for 5 years? Because they hope for something better.
Of course if you give up all hope you stop posting….. maybe that’s why the hippie’s have long disappeared ;-)
I can’t speak for others, but I don’t see the point to rehash yesterday’s philosophical differences.
Why address a foolish comment?
The anti-Wenger’s (d&g’s) have their own perception of the world of football and how the Arsenal club should be run. Bitch all you want.
I don’t accept your arguments or reasoning when it comes to the players, manager, and club operations. There is nothing in your resume or mine (except being a fan) that qualifies your opinions as being educated!
There is common ground on some details, but they escape me at the moment.
Pro-Arsenal is a better tag.
You know my resume? No you don’t. I guess when your default position is Wenger knows best there isn’t a lot of room for argument and reasoning is there?
My position is that the club is doing what’s right. Wenger happens to be its manager.
That is my default position.
I don’t find credence for your arguments. Most of what you post is your own assumption, not supported by any actual first hand information.
Everyone’s resume is a blogger.
The irony is thick. As always your statements stand in isolation without any supporting rationale whatsoever, never mind reference to the first hand information you accuse me of lacking.
Kiwi, we do discuss some things that are not likely, but Wenger is NOT leaving this Summer.
No mention of it.
No reason the board would let him go.
He is under contract.
He has succeeded in doing what the board ask of him.
Doesn’t make sense to talk about bringing in Avram Grant NOW.
Why not talk about Mourinho or Ferguson coming in to manage the club? Both would be almosts as likely as Grant, (or unlikely)… because Arsene isn’t going anywhere THIS SUMMER.
What is the point of Cesc staying one more year? It is not like we will win something next year. And if we do somehow win (assuming Wenger miraculously signs 4 world class players), then why let Cesc leave anyway? After all, titles is what he craves and if we can provide him that, why should he leave at all?
I am assuming that most feel without Cesc next year, we can’t even make it to the CL. Hmm, may be or may not be. I am not sure. But if Cesc does leave, then it surely spells the end of the youth project. So either Wenger should get back to signing experienced players or leave.
Agree Nip.
Mourinho’s recent comments are on the mark and not for the first time. Wenger’s tried to invent a method of winning that doesn’t exist. He needs to go back to his roots.
Cesc is/was ALWAYS going to leave for Barcelona, at some point.
Titles or no titles at Arsenal.
He WANTS to play for Barcelona. All Catalans do. He has ALWAYS stated that some day, that is his dream and goal.
Maz I agree. If one has to specify a single player change as fundamental to the style-change it would be Fabregas for Vieira.
I also agree that the Hleb-Fab-Rosicky midfield supported by the humble water-carrier Flamini was an effective and potentially successful combination. Alas, as you state Rosicky’s inherent fragility and Wenger’s refusal to carry serious reserves put paid to that. I still think we had glaring structural issues in that 07/08 team, what was the preferred strikeforce? RvP? Adebayor? Eduardo? The defence had the cancer of the Toure/Gallas disconnect. And to tail it all we had at best an ‘almost average’ goalkeeper.
The other critical change for me post-2004 was the retirement of Bergkamp. Whilst Vieira was the individual personification of the power/style fusion of Arsenal from 1998-2004 it was Bergkamp that glued it together. I suggest that without Bergkamp there would be NO great 1998-2004 era. He was irreplaceable. His greatness and importance wasn’t simply his own quality on the ball and the goals he scored it was the way he MADE the team gel. In his later years, I was forever amazed at how Wenger was forced again and again to re-introduce Bergkamp into the team despite the presence of other very serious options. It was clear to me that Wenger was trying to ween the team off Bergkamp but it just didn’t work as well. Why so? Well imo Denis made the team tick, wholly unselfish, he was the oil in the formula one engine.
The more I think about it the more I think Wenger benefited enormously from what he inherited in the form of Bergkamp & the famous defence. If they weren’t at Highbury when he arrived in 1998 the 1998-2004 era wouldn’t have happened. His genius was as much about fusing what was lacking on to the existing skeleton. When he had to build from scratch it’s just plain awful.
A long while ago Brian Glanville used to wonder if Arsenal would ever replace DB’s creativity and he felt that Arsenal would struggle without him. He used to write those words in DB’s final seasons when even coming on as a late sub, one could see what DB had to offer.
The other thing I think about is the number of title wins. Had Arsenal taken the 99 & 2003 titles, come the start of the 2004/05 season, Wenger’s title tally would have been 5 and Fergie’s would have been 6. Would that narrow gap allowed Wenger to believe he could overtake Utd? So would that have been enough reason to continue to strengthen the team for titles even if the stadium project was looming?
As those two titles were lost, Fergie’s tally went to 8 and Wenger stayed at 3. That gap allowed Wenger, directed by the board, to set his sights on a different and easier project of finishing 4th.
2008 was another title that Arsenal should have had and gave up to Man Utd. Those 3 title wins would have increased Wenger’s titles to 6 and Man Utd would have been down to 8. An easier gap to cross than the current 11 vs 3, or 10 vs 3 in 2008. This smaller gap might have ensured some fire/fight for the titles remained in the upper echelons.
Instead, the targets were reset to profit, 4th place and financial stability. More comfortable goals. I don’t believe the title chases required that much more investment of money. Arsenal could have tried to get more revenue via other means to offset some spending. I believe even the Super club book mentions that Arsenal did not get as much out of their shirt deal as their opponents. And not like Arsenal have not spend money over the years. Money has been spent on young players who didn’t come cheap and Arsenal’s wage package is up there with their opponents.
The only reason that Arsenal became popular under Wenger was because of their on-field play and success. Unlike Man Utd, they did not have a Beckham whose image could be used to sell t-shirts. Arsenal’s onfield success under Wenger allowed them to build a new stadium. Yet, once the new stadium was built, then everything that made that success possible was thrown away. The same strong ladder used to climb into the Emirates became evil and corrupt and was replaced by a weaker substandard quality climbing apparatus.
The more I think of Arsenal’s current situation I think of the Ozymandias poem. Wenger and his board want us to look at their mighty work and despair. The mighty work existed until a few years ago but this is all i see now..
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away
Beautifully scribed Sachin, as was your earlier posting.
On Glanville’s comments, indeed, interesting isn’t it. Wenger didn’t buy a like player to replace Bergkamp did he? No, on the contrary he totally restructured the whole team. Out the window with his winning formula and in with a nondescript hotchpotch of a squad and playing system. In truth Fabregas replaced not only Vieira but also Bergkamp. I’ve thought that for a number of years. And it hasn’t worked. It really backs my thesis that if Bergkamp wasn’t at Arsenal in 1998 Wenger wouldn’t have bought him and the great era wouldn’t have happened.
Sachin I like how you draw out the unspoken impact of the nearly-titles in 1999 & 2003 and then in 2008.
It is indeed fascinating to consider the what-if’s and the impact of the positive things that failed to happen and how they dampened our ambition. Of course we will never know the real impact, and yet, success is largely a collection of smaller good decisions and sometimes a few critical ones and the way they cumulate to achieve something really significant and highly desired. Wenger’s cumulative decisions are not having the desired outcome for Arsenal FC supporters.
We also need to consider the board’s role in this and the decisions they have made, particularly the removal of Dein and the lack of insight into the impact of that decision. Dein’s exit elevated Wenger to an untouchable level meaning there was no one at board level to interact with him and to discuss and shape his aspirations. After an age they appointed Gazidis yet he is only CEO-Corporate and clearly has little sway over Wenger’s footballing decisions.
Thanks.
When Van Persie was signed, I remember some people said he would evolve into the new Bergkamp but I think that comparison was being made more to his technical ability and ball control. Van Persie offered something else but if he was healthy througout his entire arsenal stay (I know asking a big if), it would have been interesting to see his development.
Yeah Cesc did replace two people. I used to wonder if it would be better for Arsenal to get a decent backup to Cesc so that Cesc was not playing all the time. I remember Henry, PV had to play every minute of all the games, even against a team like Derby because Arsenal needed them. Maybe Henry and PV’s burn rate was faster given how many games they played in a short time.
But yeah, it comes down all those little what-if’s. Since the last 6-7 years are still fresh in our minds, it is easier to look at the various forks in the roads. We know the roads that have been taken and those that were ignored.
Dein’s removal seems to have escalated the downward spiral. When the board got rid of Dein, there were rumours that Wenger would have left right away. Henry’s early departure was aided by Dein’s exit and Dein’s son helped negotiate that transfer to Barca as well. I didn’t realize how much of a role Dein had until he was gone. And why was Dein not replaced soon enough? And like you say, it gave Wenger absolute power. The board counted their money and Arsene went about his ways.
On the change of style post 2004, I think it basically comes down to Cesc replacing Viera and building the squad around him.
Play that latin type of possession game, wear the opposition out, frustrate them, and then strike at the moment they start to flag. We seen a similar style have alot of success against Wenger’s invincibles in the champions league. I remember Panathaikos giving us a frustrating evening in Greece one night and there were a few other examples as well. Cunning and guile designed to diffuse power and brawn.
I honestly think the Fabregas – Rosicky – Hleb combination was a good one and looked very promising. Possession football, sometimes powder-puff in comparison to the invincibles, but there was enough menace to make the pitter-pat an effective means to an end. Even in 06/07 there were encouraging signs there, and in 07/08 I thought we could win the title if those three stayed fit. They really were a vibrant trio ; similar enough to execute a precise style, but with enough individual nuances to give the opposition a different ‘look’ when appropriate. Rosicky’s injuries killed that blossoming dynamic though, and the likes of Eboue, Diaby, Walcott were not good enough to step into the breach without spoking the engines.
It’s since the start of 08/09 that the wheels have begun to well and truly fall off and our pattern of play has become muddled and almost a parody of itself. Far too horizontal, playing in areas we are being ‘ushered’ into by the opposition, and generally being compliant simpletons. What’s worse is that the players don’t seem to be aware of this, and we still get embarrassing declarations of intent by our little big men who think we’ll be fine, “as long as we play our football”. What that football is, at this point, is hard to pigeon-hole, and even harder to celebrate.
Nasri won’t go, he’s French and he’s worked through 2 hard years in his EPL apprenticeship. But I like the idea JD, maybe Eduardo and Rosicky to the French league. Eduardo and Rosicky would have a better change of shining and rehabilitating in the French league, it’s good for both them and us.
That way we jettison 2 players that simply are never going to be robust enough for the EPL. Wenger can rail against the physical play in the EPL yet in essence it won’t change, sure you can (and should) target aspects of dangerous play like really poor tackling technique but that by itself won’t change the pace and confrontational style and the sheer number of games. Some players simply are better suited elsewhere – it has ALWAYS been that way.
The English are in love with the fast physical play – it sets the EPL apart as a spectacle. What Wenger did when he fused together his first and second Arsenal sides (1998-2004) was breathtaking. What he needs to do is reconsider his whole approach to trying to win again. It’s not working, we can all see that. There is no progress, the gap to being a winner is as large as ever. The difference between winning and being runner-up (or 3rd or 4th) is not measured simply in points its a matter of having the mindset and talent to be ahead at the end and this team is badly lacking. Fess up, what did you think when you saw the Wigan game? The team was still in with a shout and they performed like that, unbelievable. What would Cesc have been thinking? He plays with a broken bone for the cause….. and he sits and watches the chumps around him do that. I’d be off too.
Can Wenger re-strategise? Unlikely. He’s moved to this South American slow tippy tappy lateral passing style that is as far away from the EPL as you can get. Even the worst EPL sides can park the bus and hit us on the break or at a setpiece. One comment that sticks in my mind was the Dutch coach Koeman, he said “Arsenal play too much”. Illogical? What he was meaning was a lot more nuanced. Nothing wrong with patterns and possession if you can punish the opposition, but if you can’t it becomes a weakness, the opposition LET you have possession and pick their moment to punish you, safe in the knowledge that you don’t do anything lethal with your possession. Ain’t that the truth. Often, we monopolise possession without scoring the goals you would expect and then get spanked late.
Fire Peter Hill-Wood. Can you believe that douche bag came out and said that he didnt’t think Fabregas was good enough to play for Barcelona? Maybe Cesc is determined to prove him wrong. Maybe Cesc wants to show him that he needs to worry about his own team and not who’s good enough for Barcelona. What an assclown.
I’ve been saying since last season that Gorcuff is the answer for replacing Fabregas. Fred’s been saying it for about three years. Gorcuff is too damn good to be playing for Bordeaux. He and Cesc are about the same age. Unlike Cesc, he’s not so short, has better pace, better in the air, and has better set piece delivery. Bordeaux need a midfielder and a striker. I say we give them Eduardo and Samir Nasri plus 8 million for Gorcuff. That would work out for both teams and players as Eddie and Samir are good enough to start for Bordeaux.
Give Chamakh and Gorcuff a year to get used to the BPL, then Cesc can go back home. Hopefully Barazite will be ready after next season and Wenger can buy another winger next summer if Walcott still plays like an idiot on nitrous.
Arsenal need to give Gallas the deal he wants. I’m sure he’s already on 80k and they’re trying to drop his wages because of his age. It’s just so much cheaper to give him that deal than to rush and try to find someone as good as he is that’s for sale and that wants to come to Arsenal. After all of that, there’s no guarantee that the new CB will actually be good enough. Arsenal signed Silvestre on a 2 year deal so why not Gallas? This way, you give Djourou a chance to regain top fitness to see if he’s good enough. You also give yourself an extra year to find an adequate Gallas replacement if Djourou’s not good enough. We’ll see how it all works out.
Lastly, a new goal keeper’s a no-brainer.
We won’t give a 2 year deal and a raise to Gallas. He is asking for something we won’t do.
I’d say Vermaelen was more important to Gallas’ success, than Gallas was to Vermaelen. So, we can replace an aging defender who gets hurt every single season.
Gorcuff is the answer for replacing Cesc Fabregas?… he definitely won’t be with Cesc still here.
Not to mention he had 6 goals and 7 assists on a Bordeaux team that absolutely fell apart this season.
Don’t see Arsenal paying 15 to 20 Million for this guy… Bordeaux just bought him from AC Milan last year.
WTF is going on here? I guess I need to avoid getting caught up in what the doomers all want me to think…Nonetheless, I was pretty mopey yesterday.
But, it’s all about timing and, being out of touch for a bit, I lost track of that….
A big event is happening this weekend in Madrid. The Champion’s league will very likely be won by the new manager of….wait for it…Real Madrid…at their home stadium. Who cares that they spent a quarter of a billion Euros and won nothing…That’s in the past. Mourinho kept Barca from winning the CL in the Bernabeu and….well you know the rest. (Talk about your “future is bright” scenario….Sachin’s prophetic visions above notwithstanding….)
Of course, if Barca could unveil David Villa on Friday and Cesc on Monday, Well, that might take the “bloom off the rose”
And, it IS a good time for Cesc to be putting the screws to both Barca AND Arsenal. He’s coming off injury and he may not get the important minutes in South Africa behind the likes of Xavi, Iniesta and David Silva, so his “value” might be highest now, rather than after.
We need this weekend to play out, some real statements to be made and then get this thing sorted out.
That being said, however, it does show just how precarious our situation is. RVP was a big loss, and hopefully Chamakh is the back-up/addition we needed so that we can endure another spell without him. Our problems at the back require two purchases (GK & CB). That already is asking A LOT. But who steps in for Cesc if he’s gone or injured? Nasri was limp in the role. Ramsey, at best, will lose a year of progress. Denilson/Diaby…..Sorry. So, really, we need to purchase a replacement for Cesc, sooner rather than later and no matter what. (And if we could actually find such a player and Cesc stayed, he would likely demand pitch time making the likes of Arshavin, Rosicky, Nasri and Diaby awfully expendable.)
Cesc’s ability to receive the ball already knowing what he’s going to do with it AND having the ability to execute most of those ideas is a rare quality indeed. It also affords the luxury of being physically slighter that our English competition as Cesc’s vision replaces the standard mid-field tussles of less well-intentioned passes. If we lose Cesc we need to accept that we will be more ponderous on the ball in the middle of the pitch and we’ll need greater physicality to hold possession and push our attack (if we don’t already).
What’s the answer there?….
Fire Wenger.
LOL. yeah. that will really solidify the squad and the Arsenal Football Club.
A new manager won’t have much time to bring in players, nor money to do so.
He’d probably get us into 6th place.
Unless its Jose Mourinho!
Not spending money on new players during the Summer would differ from the current program, how?
If Cesc does go, Arsene won’t do any better job of managing AFC to 6th. Maybe shaking up the complacency would do the club some good.
No matter who we have sold, Arsene has managed the club into the Top 4.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Until he fails to do so, you would be insane to think the board would let Wenger go.
Why would they?
“No matter who we have sold, Arsene has managed the club into the Top 4.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.”
When has he done it with NO WORLD CLASS PLAYERS?
doesn’t really matter Vibe…
He has not failed to deliver CL football since the move and since the last trophy…
The board are not letting Wenger go, until he fails to deliver the goods.
the goods = CL football, a filled stadium, and profits
until that time, you’d have to be crazy to think they’d consider firing Wenger.
If he wanted to leave, a whole different story, but he is doing exactly what they want.
not even debatable.
“doesn’t really matter Vibe…”
Really? Having Cesc wasn’t/isn’t a huge part of our holding onto to a Top 4 spot? We have a significant disagreement there.
On top of that, Arsenal’s recent form (stingy during the transfer window, lackluster on the pitch, no commitment to winning–only qualifying) would make Cesc very hard to replace.
And, as you keep failing to answer, how does the Top 4 plan go then? Once Cesc is the first card to fall, the whole house could start coming down.
However, I’m not arguing they’ll fire Wenger. Never have. There’s no chance that will happen.
I don’t believe Maz thinks it will, either. He’s only expressing a wish. And while I do agree it’s probably time Wenger was gone, it’ll more than likely be his call.
As mentioned by others, including vibe, this Cesc saga is like Cristiano Ronaldo, part II. So which means Cesc will probably leave in 2011 after helping Arsenal to an impressive 2nd place finish next season. 2nd place will double the expectations of 4th place, thereby exceeding the board’s goals significantly. But Cesc won’t go alone to Barca. Wenger will follow him there next year allowing Guardiola to move in the other direction to Arsenal. Guardiola will immediately try to target titles but that will not go down well with the Arsenal board who would prefer Pep merely give the illusion of challenging for the title rather than win it.
Man Utd will continue to push Pep’s Arsenal and [revolving foreign mananger]’s Chelsea for the title despite Man Utd being 3 trillion dollars in debt. Some will eagerly await Man Utd’s demise but England will declare Man Utd too big to fail and use government money to prop the team up, ensuring that no matter how much debt Man Utd have they never go a single season without challenging for a trophy, even if that trophy is the meaningless Tesco Cup (formerly known as the Carling Cup).
Over in Spain…After Jose takes over at Madrid, Wenger would be forced to chase 2nd spot at Barca. Seeing how Wenger never managed to get the winning goal over that bus parked in front of Jose’s team. And in typical Jose fashion, the bus will be designed to look like an airplane. But in Madrid, Jose would need to play flowing football as the fans there are likely to boo a dull 1-0 win. And if Jose complains about booing fans, well, he would be out the door.
Meanwhile, Rafa will takeover at Valencia again and spend 300 million pounds to build a 3rd place team which will finish 34 points behind the champions. Rafa will then demand another 200 million the following summer to make a title charge. But his expenses will force Valencia into administration thereby allowing Ronald Koeman to come in and finish the job of getting Valencia relegated.
On the other hand, Seville will continue winning the Copa Del Rey and flirting with 3rd and 4th spots while getting a home win over the big 2. Atletico Madrid will again fail to win against Madrid in the derby matches despite holding a 3-0 lead with 5 minutes left in a game.
all too plausible!
as I wrote that, I kept thinking this is more like non-fiction and not fantasy fiction.
That is awesome, sach.
And then world comes to end in 2012, and we’re all out of our misery. ;-)
Thanks. That’s a great point about 2012. So when
the world is on the verge of ending, Arsenal’s main
rivals will continue to take on debt so that they
can win a final trophy before all the stadiums come
tumbling down. Arsenal on the other hand, will continue
to sell all their players so that they can be 100%
debt free before it all ends.
I get the Arsenal plan. They want to sell off all their valuable assets so that they go down in history for these two things
1) The invincibles of 2004.
2) A debt free club in an environment of money addicted
excess.
Borrowing an element from Cormac McCarthy’s The Road, if a father and son do survive 2012, the father can tell stories to his son about Arsenal with those 2 points. The young son would be in awe that a team was so strong that they resisted the urge to spend.
son: “Dad, didn’t Arsenal want to win a final trophy?”
dad: “No son. Arsenal valued ethics and morals. History
will remember them as the last morally pure team. Trophies
in soccer is only for the morally corrupt.”
:)
By dragging The Road into this, you have officially moved to the head of the D&G table. ;-)
ha ha :) Didn’t think of it that way. I will also be the first to move in line when a new future is about to dawn and hope will emerge from the ruins.
On the lighter side –
“Just seen Howard Webb is refereeing the champions league final….. So man utd are still in with a chance of winning it then!”
I LOVE the silly season.
This is great stuff.
Yaya wants no part of coming the other way, as City are
talking to him. THAT… makes sense to me.
Barca will only offer 30 Million for Cesc.
Ha!
I’d say feck off to hell you bitches!
We hold THE CARDS. If Barcelona don’t offer the right amount,
then we simply can NOT sell our best player. Sorry.
Wenger just says to Cesc… you are under contract son, and this is
what they offered for you. You are worth twice that to Arsenal.
I understand you might want to play for Barca, but it can’t be now.
let’s see what Arsenal do… let’s hope Barcelona actually forces
Arsenal to KEEP Cesc another year… and lets see if Cesc pouts and bitches and gives a full effort if he stays!
It seems like there is a lot going on behind the scenes with this one,
but I’d have to think Cesc wants to go, and its all about the wrangling
over the amount.
So without taking into account fees, for Ibra, Henry, and David Villa, Barca are 420 million in debt.
So either they can’t afford Cesc or that is why the offer they will push will be 30 million plus players
Seeing they are tabling an offer of 70 MILLION for Torres, and just spent 34 MILLION on Villa…
I don’t know where you get this idea that they are crippled financially from making moves!
LOL
There has been no formal offer for Torres. That story is just speculation as well.
everything is speculation.
David Villa was speculation at first too.
Then they signed him.
Presidential candidate Sandro Rosell, has warned the Catalan club that they must balance the books if they want to continue their £40million pursuit of the Arsenal captain.
“We must be careful, because from an economic standpoint we are not good,” said Rosell.
“We have a stratospheric level of debt. £420million over what needs to be paid for Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Dmytro Chygrynskiy.
The Swedish striker, and defender Chygrynskiy cost Barca close to £70million last summer, and both have failed to make a sufficient impact at the Nou Camp, meaning that they could be shipped out for a as little as half of what the club paid for them.
Rosell also went on to express his doubts over the £35million fee that the Spanish champions paid for David Villa.
“From a sporting point of view it is a very good signing, but from an economic one we maybe needed a little more information.
“Maybe there were other options available, for the cost and salary, so we lacked the right information to know whether the €50million price was a fair one.”
AS makes a good point about Barca actually ponying up an offer.
Makes me think that this could’ve really been the player’s intent all the time – basically Barca I want to come – how much do you value me? Look it’s a business and I don’t doubt Cesc’s sincerity to go home to play but he is now rated as one of the best if not the best playmaking midfielder in Europe. He is going to want to see what kind of commitment he gets.
From Arsenal he likely wants to see a commitment to bring in better players to take them over the hump. From Barca – their supposed favored son would like to see what he is worth. Arsenal have placed a price tag 50-80 million pounds. At least he knows they value him in that respect.
And frankly as he has stated that he wants this settled before the WC – Barca have a week to step up and make their true intentions known. Is it all bluster or is it for real.
The more and more I logically think about it- I still think this is all bluster and that we have at least 1 year left of Cesc wearing our colors.
I believe it’ll be another year, as well. It feels like the Ronaldo deal. That one looked like it would happen a year before it finally did, as well.
But the flaw in the Master Plan is still what it is. World Class players want the silver and the Silver. Arsenal needs to aim higher, or Cesc will be the last player of his caliber we see in our colors for some time.
DAG – one of your best write ups!
Arsenal is a business. Financially, we have weathered the Emirates move. Our board
and manager have maintained a disciplined budget during this period. Yes, at the
sacrifice of silverware.
The addition of Gazidis has allowed the club to lock up OUR talented players on
solid contracts. From the business side, there is no pressure for selling anyone.
City offer $20 mil for Milner and Villa turn it down. What value can you assign Cesc?
( a large fortune ! not some measly$50 mil)
What does that say about the marketplace and the value of other Arsenal players?
We will have to see if Barca makes any offer for Cesc. After the last 3 days of gossip,
if Barca don’t make any offer, I wonder what will go through Cesc’s mind about the leadership
character at Barca.
I didn’t believe May would serve up this type of drama.
So supposedly – Barcelona have now come back and said they would give us Alexander Hleb in any deal for Cesc Fabregas.
Okay now that cinches it. This is all a lark.
If that is even remotely true Barcelona are not serious about making a play for Fabregas.
What scares the crap out of me is, what if that’s true? What if the towering ego of Arsene could convince himself…(sorry, Maz…I don’t even wanna finish that thought…)
So PHW comes out last night and says we have no intention of selling.
AW comes out shortly after and says you heard what the chairman said. He also adds about Barca – the more you talk the less there is. (I hate cryptic frenchmen)
My rule on this: the more they say “A.”, the more I believe the truth will eventually be revealed as “B.”
When Ade said “I am 100% committed to a future with Arsenal.”, I knew he was 100% out the door.
Heh.
Don’t worry. I think it’s very unlikely that Wenger will take him back now. Hleb is past it (dare I said it, wiping a tear) and him and Cesc were more of a package deal.
I think even Alex would struggle to stretch those bandy limbs in order to make up for Diaby’s vacant-mindedness.