Is There Something Wrong With the EPL?
Love ya - but it's time to go.
Gunners faithful are still dealing with what looks like the eventual departure of our Captain Cesc Fabregas. The last two weeks have seen rumour, inneundo, and fact run rampant discussing the catalan native’s desire to go play for his boyhood club rather than the one that has nurtured him the last 7 years.
Now many will argue that it has everything to do with our inability to win anything and the current golden era of football over at Camp Nou. But I wonder if that is really only part of it and if there isn’t a broader reason why Cesc and numerous world class stars are suddenly shunning the “Best league” in the world.
In the last few years we have heard og mega transfers into the EPL of some of the best players in the world. Ribery, Silva, Villa, etc. They’ve all been said to be coming here. Even some who are not world class but are well known and well respected have been linked here. But have you noticed something – they really haven’t come here. As a matter of fact they aren’t even staying here.
Not that last year is the likely starting point for this but it is as good place to start as any. And we start with arguably the best player in the world in Cristiano Ronaldo heading off from Manchester United to Real Madrid. Soon to be followed by Xabi Alonso from Liverpool. In both cases the teams they played for suffered. One worse than others. And yes Ronaldo had achieved all he could achieve at United but if the EPL is the best league inthe world with the best talent – wouldn’t you want to play there?
Xabi Alonso was on a team that could’ve been a contender (cue Marlon Brando). Liverpool were on the cusp of greatness last season only to have him depart play in Madrid and watch liverpool go down in flames.
You’d think that if the EPL were all that it touted itself to be than players would be lining up to play here in droves. No, the best players would be lining up in droves. But they aren’t Cesc Fabregas wants to leave. Franck Ribery has turned down big money offers from Chelsea and Man City, as have David Villa and others.
Why?
I think there are a variety of reasons from the financial to the physical. And they are all why noone wants to play here. Would you want to play or work in a country that requires you pay 50% tax on your wages? Wouldn’t you want to play in Spain where you as a player get part of the TV revenue if you play in the big clubs. Wouldn’t want to play where the likelihood of you suffering a career ending injury is lessened because the game is more about pass and shoot than pass and club the opponent to death.
When the likes of Blackburn, Stoke, Hull and others are allowed to run with reckless abandon and nearly destroy the careers of players noone is going to want to be a part of that if they don’t have to. If you are a world class player, a natural scorer or a gifted defender with legs, do you want to risk that? Probably not. Now look the EPL purists are going to argue that this what makes the game great in England. And to some extent they are right but wouldn’t you rather see the best ply their trade rather then the mediocre trudge about trying to take out the legs of the best because they can’t keep up.
I really think that in addition to the Arsenal implosion seeing two of teammates suffer like he has, Fabregas, is of the mind “I could be next and then miss my chance at Barcelona glory.” He’s young and the way he plays – he is a Ryan Shawcross tackle away from being a young player who may not play again in his current form if it were to happen.
Additionally, the financial calls are too great outside the EPL as well. In the EPL they are paid monthly, do not share in the league revenue and the other side incentives are not as sweet as elsewhere. In Spain for instance, the players get paid at the beginning of every campaign, they get signing bonuses, the tax structure is more favorable and they share in the revenue. It is an absolute sweetheart deal.
Finally, if you are a star you want to win. In every league outside of the EPL there are only about two -three teams that stand a chance of winning and let’s face it – if you are on one of those teams the likelihood of winning something is a lot easier than in a league where the lesser teams can actually get in your way of winning. The other leagues are much more favorable now to the top teams winning than say in the EPL. The EPL has become more balanced. Which is a good thing unless you want the ease of winning – like Scotland, Germany, or Spain.
All of these reasons and likely more that I haven’t mentioned are reasons why it seems that the big talent no longer wants to come here. The EPL is being shunned from within and without. It has to seriously consider this as the years go on. Soon some of its bigger stars – like Gerrard, Lampard and Shrek could leave. Only then will the EPL likely take notice until then its a case of another foreigner who didn’t want to play here.
While I think the primary reason for Cesc’s desire to leave is based on his will to play with the lads he trained with as a kid as they enjoy their success. I do think some of the other reasons are also playing in his mind. As the days go on I am more resigned to his leaving and while I will be sad – I will wish him well and wonder who we will get to fill those shoes.
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Fred, your point’s legit, and I won’t argue Rosicky’s injury record. However, Rosicky is an experienced player and a winner. You simply never know how a proper off-season and pre-season might help him regain his power. But even if he’s only available for twenty games, Arsenal are likely to fair better actually having a player around who’s testicles have actually descended into the sack, than to not have him at all. You know Wenger won’t bring in a timely replacement for him. Look at Sol’s influence.
Sorry stag, but I’m not buying the idea of absolving the club for Tomas’ health. It’s clearly documented that he needed care for three months before his injury worstened and he prophetically broke down. It was an additional six months before AFC allowed him proper treatment. It’s also not the first time we’ve lost a player by playing him when he wasn’t fit. Can you justify that player management?
Sure, it would have sucked losing Tomas for four months but not as bad as it sucked losing him for two years.
Josh. Where is it documented?
Why would the training or treatment staff be allowed to continue unchanged with that type of negligence?
If you were the player, and the team was as responsible for your injury as YOU make it out to be with Rosicky, where is the law suit?
I’m not buying the idea of the club being responsible for his injury(ies).
I don’t want him for 20 games. He’s not worth the money he’s making for that amount.
Both Rosicky and RVP’s injuries have been misdiagnosed in the past and therefore the treatment specified was incorrect.
Google Rosicky and RVP and you will find it well documented.
Eduardo was initially treated in Brazil where his healing went beyond expectations. Upon coming back to Arsenal he suffered not 1 but 2 setbacks before he even got on the pitch. You can Google that too.
Non contact injuries are basically a result of improper training and or diet. each player is somewhat different and based on their physical age (not age in years) need to be treated differently.
The Denver Nuggets brought in an Australian cobber (trainer/nutritionist) and within 1 year non-contact injuries were reduced by over 50%. Basketball, like Football, requires stamina, flexibility and “long” muscles which provide both speed and power. The Aussie stopped all free weight sessions, added some fat in their diet (stamina) and used rubber bands and resistance training to build strength.
Arsenal has an unusually high rate of non-contact injuries and extended recuperation time in relation to other clubs. This was stated by Arsene himself earlier on this season and he went on to say that they could not find a reason for this.
They are now bringing in a GPS aided system to track players to better aid in diagnostics and training regimen.
As to the reason why the medical staff has not been axed, is the same reason why we still have Fabianski, Silvestre, Denilson, Eduardo and Almunia on the team. LOYALTY!
When our Physio Lewin went to the English national team, who did we get? No one else but his son. GO FIGURE!!
Fred, I remember being outplayed by Bolton and losing 2-0 when Rosicky scored a goal that turned the game. His assist to Campbell in the Porto game was also relevant as it’s another game where we were being outplayed, yet Rosicky was key in us getting a goal to keep us in the game. That’s the stuff that winners do. Crock or not, we don’t have enough of that in our squad.
Do you know how many of our bitch-ass players hide or shrug responsibility when the other team has the momentum? I’m far from interested in seeing us sack one of our few players who actually has some balls.
if he can’t play 20 games a year, is he really worth it?
I like Rosicky, but how many players should we keep in the team who can’t play 3/4 or 1/2 a season… EVER?
We can only hope he recovers a descent degree of health. It’s the club’s management of his injury that’s led to him spending so much time out of the squad.
Josh.
ZERO proof that “its the club’s management of his injury”…
That’s simply NOT factual.
If it IS, why isn’t he suing the club?
If it IS, and we have the same staff, what would make you think that they could manage an injury better going forward?
I don’t agree that the club’s medical staff is at fault for prolonging injuries. They don’t cause them… we have fragile players.
OK, I’ll give you the Bolton game … but then again I asked for two matches … and only one can really be mentioned.
The CL games are inconsequential, “butterfly” games, so no point even mentioning those. Am talking about bread and butter EPL games only.
Again your defense of him emphasizes his extremely LOW returns. We can be rest assured he will NOT make up to 15 starts next season. With that in mind, there just is zero point having him around … sell him off (for ours and his sake) and BRING IN someone else.
By having Rosicky in the squad, Wenger gets to deceive us that we have an extra, experienced player when in truth we DO NOT!
Why is it that its ONLY Arsenal who willingly CARRIES known CROCKS on a long-term basis???!
Which other successful team does that??
Is Arsenal a charity?
There has been a new signing !!!
Ramsey has signed his third deal in two years at Arsenal.
Must be a record.
I didn’t know that this is what Arsene meant when he said that there will be more signings after Chamakh.
so we re-signed Ramsey, who had a horrific injury, to a longer deal?
great.
who’s responsible for giving out these contracts?
must be a brilliant mind.
hope he got a big raise too, because he’s done… oh right.
Just wait one minute! This man knows World Class talent when he sees it. The number of Arsenal First Teamers playing for their countries this Summer pro…oh, right.
That’s Nasri, Walcott, Almunia, Djourou, Denilson, Silvestre, and Campbell. Wow! When was the last time Arsenal had so many fit first team players who hadn’t retired from international football and their country qualified for the World Cup yet our players failed to make the squad? I don’t think that happened even before Arsene Wenger; atleast in the time I’ve been following Arsenal.
Will this be a sign to Arsene Wenger that maybe his squad isn’t as good as he thinks? We’ll see what he does with this.
The Walcott news is hilarious and fitting really.
Cappello would have been a plank to have taken him … infact I would have lost all respect for him, as it would mean he is just someone who looks at “reputation”.
Walcott has done absolutely fuck all for the last four years … yet everyone was talking about him like he was a guaranteed starter. Comparing him to Lennon, SWP or even the likes of Adam Johnson and Bentley would be embarrasing for Walcott.
At least this way he does not get to humiliate himself on the world stage and be blamed for Englands eventual demise at the quarterfinals.
The world does not work the way it does at Arsenal, where “potential” is rewarded.
Hopefully this lights a pretty big fire up his ass … somehow I doubt it will.
PS: On the flip side, now we CANT sell him! :-(
We can give him a new deal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/01/theo-walcott-england-world-cup
Ouch!
Finally a fire is lit under our (under-achieving) man-child….
Or…
Capello undoes the careful coddling of a (future) superstar?
Again, Ouch!
Big ouch… I was hoping that either this happens, orrr he goes to WC and plays a blinder. I think an upturn of confidence in the latter case, or a fire up his ass and a corresponding upturn in hunger in the former should see Theo contribute much more next season.
You have to hope we are attempting to make moves
right now, up until the WC.
10 days from the start…
Haven’t re-signed Sol.
Haven’t re-signed Gallas.
That would mean we lost our two most experienced players,
and both at Center Back.
Goal-keeper… the most GLARING issue is still staring
us right in the face. Haven’t sold or rid ourselves of
either Almunia or Flapianski…
Signed Chamakh on a FREE… and awaiting word on RVP’s knock!
Cesc wants to leave.
So far, same as it ever was with the Arsenal Football Club.
Thankfully, the World Cup is a wonderful and welcome distraction.
;)
@ Fred,
“Please name two games against non-relegation teams in which Rosicky has had a significant effect on the match.
His job is not to “pull strings”. His job is more similar to Arshavin than to Fabregas or even Hleb.
Either way, he will miss 75% of the games next season, so its time we CUT OUR LOSSES! Even if he is on 20k/wk which he is not, we still millions for medical treatment.”
1) our win at Liverpool – made the cross for Diaby’s header for winning goal. 2) In the first Porto game, assisted with header to Sol (header) in our only goal – at that time an important away goal in our 2-1 loss. 3) I believe in another CL match he scored right b4 halftime to get us on the scoreboard and set the stage for our 2nd half comeback.
Fred, I’ll assume you have watched more soccer than most that post here, but you are human and subject to drawing conclusions THAT DON’T ALWAYS HOLD TRUE.
That’s what I love about this sight, we have a small number of self proclaimed psychics!
What’s that 900 # ? 1 – 900 – b negativ
Sorry anyone that wishes the team and players to fail – nothing else needs to be said.
Hmmmm…..crossing the ball for a goal is not a significant performance marker … Denilson and Walcott have actually done that on more than one occasion.
If his main domestic contribution to the last season is crossing for a goal against Pool, then my point is emphasized.
All in all, I have more time for him than I would ever have for the likes of Denilson, Walcott or even Diaby … however, he is very injury prone and is wasting space so we need to get rid of him. It will also be good for his own health to go to a “softer” league.
The only crock we should carry is RvP.
There is a way to win again with Wenger. And that’s to appoint George Graham as an assistant tasked to rebuild the defence. It won’t happen because Wenger is more committed to his vision than he is to winning. But defence is an obvious issue under Wenger and by himself he’ll take forever to address it (if ever). If GG rebuilt the defence Wenger could focus on what he does(did?) do very well and that is overlay a clever attacking unit. If left to himself Wenger will buy the ocassional Sagna and Vermaelen but never with sufficient speed to address the rot. And I haven’t even referred to GK ;-)
Just think of what George could do with Vermaelen, Sagna, Clichy and with a budget to add a few more. You’d see noticeable improvement in 3 months, and in a year you’d have a defence worthy of a title challenge.
It would never happen but I like the GG idea. Give him training control of the GKs, defenders and DMs.
Wenger will rather die a million times than do that though.
Wenger would bust his nut by screaming at the defenders during matchday for not doing enough attacking. Best we can hope for is that Wenger realizes that defensive lines and tippy tappy passing triangles are not mutually exclusive.
I think our game has become too lateral, static and pedestrian. We allow the opposing sides to amass and make it very difficult for our strikers. It’s hard to think what striker would thrive in our current pattern – certainly not Henry – his pace would be rendered redundant.
I’d like to see more pace in our game, and that’s as much about faster breaking as it is about faster players. It’s about releasing the ball quickly from defence and not tapping it about and thereby allowing the opposition to assemble. In many ways we need to revert to a version of our 1996-2004 game – it was robust enough to dominate in the EPL. I can’t see that happening though. This whole squad is an odd assortment that ill-fits 4-4-2, 4-3-3 allows Wenger to mix-n-match the odd assortment without it looking too bizzare. 4-3-3 allows Wenger to accumulate technical footballers and fit them in to a system where there is reduced accountability. 4-4-2 would expose passengers and those players with major flaws in their game and further expose our lack of physicality. So you can expect 4-3-3 to resume.
I agree … the 4-3-3 allows for players to hide.
With 4-4-2, if one person is not holding up it is so freaking obvious its embarrasing.
If you remember the early Wenger sides, 1996-2004, the squads were very compact meaning the players played a lot of games. Guys like Vieira, Henry, Pires and Bergkamp were impressive physically and in endurance and robustness as well as hugely talented on the ball.
For whatever reason, Wenger just doesn’t seem to join the dots. Today we have mostly small players with too many having a track record of injury/fragility.
It’s just another example of theory not matching reality. Wenger’s new vision doesn’t cut it. His old one did.
The treatment of injuries by AFC may need a review – however I have no inside info or medical expertise so all I can do is watch what results. I would be genuinely surprised if Arsenal didn’t have access to the best.
What you can say is that after 4 years of breakdowns Rosicky has given a poor on-field return and is a poor bet next season. Brutal or fact? I was quite upbeat seeing him return this last season, yet after the initial pleasure of seeing Tomas on the field faded his influence was very limited. Indeed, as the season progressed his influence seemed to regress.
With the criticism of Nasri it’s a bit like the criticism directed at Arshavin. If this was the 2004 team then ok, the benchmark is Pires versus Arshavin(or Nasri) and it’s true neither Arshavin or Nasri are doing a Le Bob at this time. But this isn’t 2004. The current collective team standard has dropped a lot, so there are players far more deserving of criticism imo. Why not critique Walcott? He’s been at Arsenal longer and is of similar age to Nasri. I’m not a Nasri fan at this stage yet I judge players primarily on their on-field contribution not some abstract sense of their potential. And contribution starts with getting on the field.
Understand, I’ve not said that Nasri’s a crap player. In fact, technically, I think he’s quite brilliant and his best is yet to come. However, I don’t think he’s got that special quality to lead Arsenal to silverware. I think he needs mentorship and this Arsenal side can’t give him that. What’s even more discouraging is he’s not shown the propensity to receive guidance from senior players. Who knows, I’ve been wrong before once or maybe twice. Time always tells.
Sidebar, I’ve just realized that this is only going to be Anelka’s first World Cup. Amazing.
Nasri moves and passes a bit too horizontally to make enough of an impression to warrant the label of a genuine playmaker.
He needs to make more incisive vertical dashes up the pitch, and also more risque passes in order to make the next step. At the moment he’s too much of a crab unless he’s playing against open european teams, and then he might go on a dribble and start playing square on more often (like Porto).
I agree – if Cesc is going to go – get us Gourcuff. He’s £22 million I think.
But let’s face it – if Cesc goes and there is no suitable replacement – this will be the first time in a long time there has been an Arsenal squad without an iconic player.
No, if Cesc goes, Gorcuff’s 6 goals and 8 assists, in a much weaker league – should translate into stardom in England!
I think Wenger MIGHT go for him, but I don’t expect him to be able to come close to doing what Cesc has.
I doubt we’ll spend 22 Million on one player, and that’s what he is reportedly worth.
But if Cesc is sold, not much will matter… we’ll need 3 or 4 coming in to transform the team.
Regardless, without a NEW KEEPER, it will be the same old song… with or without Cesc.
I’m not convinced about Gourcuff, although I’ll reserve judgement until I see him play for France.
He’s got skill in tight areas and a nice shot, but he doesn’t seem to be a penetrative runner with ball.
So he is like Hleb then? ;-) … but with a nice shot! And 7 years younger …
I don’t think he would have Hleb’s energy and ablity to burst into space.
He looks to me quite a static player who plays a bit higher than Cesc and comes alive when he gets the ball and flicks things on, or does a quick turn a shot, and not much fannying about. What you would call a ‘serious’ player ;)
oh yes, thats what Arsenal needs, a “serious” player … for the fannying around we already have Nasri.
stag 133, do you know how many goals Pires scored for Marsielle? I don’t remember but I guarantee you it wasn’t 19 like he scored in a single season at Arsenal. Pires never led the French League in assists either, but we all remember the league-leading numbers he put in the ’01-’02 season, despite rupturing his ACL and missing the last part of the season. Did you translate Bobby’s numbers to stardom before he came to Arsenal? How about Henry’s numbers while he was at Monaco? Hell, what about Adebayor’s Monaco numbers, Mr. Mathemagician?
Mazza, it’s fair to reserve judgement if you haven’t seen him play much. He’s still young but you don’t have to be outside all day to recognize the sun is shining. He’s a fine young player.
Didn’t have the greatest season in France apparently. Got alot of criticism.
I watched him against Ireland in Paris and he didn’t even touch the ball hardly.
He seems to me like a guy with incredible talent but maybe lacks presence at times and a bit lightweight and slow.
If Gorcuff is 22 Million PRE-WC… and he has a GOOD World Cup for France, what’s his cost going to be then?
30 Million?!
Either way, can NOT see Arsene or Arsenal spending that much on Gorcuff or any other player.
Would love to be wrong, but I just don’t see it.
I don’t even see Arsene bringing in 3 players this Summer.
We got Chamakh for free… once the WC starts, not much will get done during the tournament, and training starts 3 days after the WC.
Easily could see us not doing anything else.
And if Cesc has a good WC (if he manages to get in the starting 11), that should see his price rocket up as well… More power to the Arsenal!!
Yes. Cesc’s value will go up, but he ONLY wants to go to Barcelona, so we have no other market for him!
Plus, if he goes after the World Cup, then Wenger won’t have time to bring in anyone !!
We’ll have to just keep the 40 Million as profit!
LOL
I am sure the board will be gutted!
;)
I watch the French league…
he’s a good player, but he’s not close to Cesc…
and, he’ll be coming to England, a much better league, tougher league, more physical league.
just saying, he’s no guarantee of success, that’s for sure, and for 22 Million… I would not spend that on Gorcuff.
On Gourcuff, I’m glad you like him. He seems a player whose time has come. Bordeaux have changed manager, Chamakh has gone. You get the sense Bordeaux’s little time in the sun has passed (perhaps). Who knows, he may want a bigger stage.
What chance us signing him? Only if Fabregas goes. And only if we can work a deal with the crocks (too expensive on a straight cash basis). Gourcuff is probably too high profile to really wet Wenger’s appetite, yet he is French and that counts for a lot, and if Fabregas goes Wenger’s vision and confidence will be reeling a bit. No way Nasri’s part of a swap. Zero.
I think Arsenal can afford him on a straight cash basis. It would be very expensive but Gourcuff is a very “super talent”. I think it best to do it now before the World Cup. He, and Joe Hart, will all have suitors after the World Cup. These are players that are worth a lot of dough.
JD, mate, I have a soft spot for Tomas too yet he just can’t stay fit. If he’s not on the pitch he’s not doing anything except clogging up a spot and costing the club millions. Wenger’s been protecting him all season. He didn’t even feature last season. His best season in the four he has been at the club was his first with 22 starts (for the record 22,15,0,14). That’s a woeful return. And truth is even in those 14 games he started this past season he’s looked pretty lame. Truly, not a lot on offer, the sharp edge has gone. He needs France as much as Eduardo.
As for Nasri, he ain’t going anywhere. He’s a Wenger babe, bigtime. He’s French, in his early prime, cocky/arrogant, and if you (or me) don’t like aspects of his game you better hope they improve. ;-)
And blaming Nasri for the demise in our scoring seems rather skewed. We stopped scoring when the team was stripped of strikers – RvP, Bendtner, Eduardo, Nasri – all out at the same time (not to mention Rosicky being treated like a protected species). So we had Arshavin toiling away, even up front, and then Bendtner returned and tried his best. Nasri returned from a broken leg after 3 months at the end of October and still managed to click up 22 EPL starts. Nasri won us some games, he even played the Fabregas role with aplomb a couple of times. Overall he was ok, he didn’t radiate, yet he did what too many of the Arsenal players can’t – after getting fit he stayed on the field.
Kiwi, your assessment of injured Arsenal players has been downright brutal. Should all the blame really go on the players? We’ve seen Wenger take our top shotters and run them into the ground. Gallas, Fabregas, Arshavin, van Persie, Rosicky, Henry, Vieira; we’ve seen this all before.
If Rosicky has an injury diagnosed as requiring surgery by a disinterested physician in November and is yet required by the club to play football until he finally breaks down in January, is that his fault? If he needs surgery in November and that surgery is delayed by the club until the following June, is that his fault? Nope, it’s poor player management, dude. I lay that one at the feet of AFC. We lost a good player for two years because his health was poorly managed by AFC. Instead of losing Gallas for a few weeks, we lost him for over 3 months because his injury was poorly managed by AFC. We’ve seen it happen to Vieira, Henry, van Persie, and Fabregas as well; where everyone knew that they weren’t fit, but Wenger played them anyway and they suffered greater injury as a result.
As for my assessment of Nasri being skewed, I’ve merely stated the facts. Over the past three seasons, we’ve had two times where Arsenal created a lot of chances. Once was the season before he came and the second was when he was out injured. This happened not only at Arsenal but at Marseille. Who knows, maybe it is a coincidence. Time will tell. As for winning us games, I can’t recall a single game this season where his decisive play was pivotal in leading Arsenal to victory or his goals won us a game. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, though. Maybe I’m just getting old. Someone remind me.
As for wide players, we could lose Nasri and would still have Wilshere, Gibbs, Traore, and Vela, if he stays, to play on the left. Likewise, if Theo stays fit, I think he’ll have his best season next season. I think he will do well in the World Cup. We still have Eboue and Rosicky as well as having Barazite coming back from injury.
Up front, if we lose Eduardo and/or Vela, we still have J. Emmanuel Thomas, Sanchez-Watt, Jay Simposon, and even Theo Walcott fighting for that spot, while Rhys Murphy is still a few years away. Keep in mind, we are talking about the fourth choice striker.
In CM, I think we may be ready to see Henri Lansbury make the first team this season. I think it meant a lot to him to see him come back from a year-long loan and for Arsene to, not only include him in the squad, but to give him a few minutes in the Fulham game. I thought he looked damn good. He may be ready.
I know I’ve been posting all morning but this team is so close to being what Wenger wants it to be. He’s just got to make some uncharacteristc decisions this summer. He’s got to splash some big cash as well as sign a certain over-30 player to a two year deal, and we would be set to continue his vision; as well as satsfying the fans wth a few trophies. No major overhaul required; just a little tweaking.
I don’t see Gallas in an Arsenal jersey next season. Arsene (in early May) made the comment that William would have till the end of the month to sort out his future with the club.
So here we are at the 31st.
Gibbs, Traore will not play LM under Wenger …. Wilshere is most likely on loan again next season and Vela will most likely look to leave the club if he has a decent world cup.
Lansbury, Barazite, Jay Emanueal, Jay Simpson, Sanchez Watt, etc will NOT make the team and will never get any chances unless there are very large scale injuries, so I dont see the point of talking about them.
IF Eboue plays RM or RF again next season then that is proof positive Wenger has to go.
lose Nasri, because we still Wilshire Gibbs Traore and Vela?
Did I read that wrong?
They all don’t add up to Nasri…
Its apparent you don’t like Nasri, but not sure why… in comparison to what we have in our squad, he’s a cut above.
Understand, I’m talking about these players as potential cover for the likes of Arshavin and Rosicky, not as starters or replacements for Samir Nasri. I haven’t lost my mind.
I don’t think we need another DM. Song has made the position his own while Eastmond has proved a competent deputy. I like Parker and even mentioned him as my preferred option when we lost Flamini. But with the ascension of Song and Eastmond, Diaby, Denilson, or even Colquelin in an emergency, it would be a waste of money for a player of Parker’s age. He’s the one player that West Ham have said are not for sale so he wouldn’t be cheap. I’d pass.
Am sorry, Eastmond and Coquelin are nothing players … yes they are only 20 bla, bla … but why is it that it is ONLY Arsenal that promotes mediocre players.
Its the same way we promoted the HORRID Denilson.
And no, Eastmond isnt competent …. any proper AM or winger will humiliate him. He is just like Denilson but physically weaker if that is possible.
Why is it that EVERYBODY dismisses the DM position …. it is for me the MOST crucial part of the team. Without strength and experience in that position we are winning absolutely nothing.
A midfield of Song, Diaby, Denilson, Eastmond is nonsensical.
Song has done well, but he is still quite inexperienced and not that mobile.
The player brought it does not have to be Scott Parker …. i just mentioned him because I want more English players in the team and less poncy foreigners who apparently ALL dream of playing for Barcelona or Real Madrid.
Any other proper DM older than 25 would work fine for me.
Agree. Eastmond seems a nice lad and all that but ffs, we have to stop this nonsense of trying to integrate any footballer who knows his right foot from his left.
A few years ago, reading the old AA, Fred put me on to Gourcuff. I remember watching a Champions League match when Kaka was injured and Gourcuff got the nod. I know it was only one game but I thought the kid was absolutely brilliant. It shocked me that he didn’t get more PT after that game. I’ve watched him alot since then and he’s proven to be a fantastic player. Some people are just born to be playmakers. It’s easy for him.
I’m going to be so bold as to say that I think Gourcuff’s a better player than Fabregas; atleast he’s more dynamic. They’re about the same age but he’s atleast 6 feet tall. He’s faster than Fabregas. He’s got a better dead ball delivery than Fabregas; both direct and indirect. He’s better in the air than Fabregas. He can dribble by players better than Fabregas. His passing range rivals Fabregas. He looks good not only centrally but in wide areas and up front. The kid’s a dynamo. He lead Bordeaux to win a title. BORDEAUX!!!
Whether Barcelona meet Arsenal’s asking price for Fabregas or not, I think Arsenal should sign Gorcuff. He won’t be cheap but will certainly make the team better. He may encourage Fabregas to stay in north London. He’s the main playmaker for France where as Nasri didn’t even make the team. Gourcuff could be our “Hleb replacement” which would allow Fab to drop a little deeper and give him more time on the ball (which I think he prefers). Our midfield needs freshening up and Gourcuff would be the right answer.
If Arsenal sign Joe Hart, Gourcuff, and give Gallas a two year contract, we will win silverware next year. That’s only two new players in but those two new players plus one old player would improve the squad, tremendously. Gourcuff and Hart won’t be cheap but would be worth the dough.
As you note, I’ve been a long time Gourcuff groupie, however you cant say he is better than Fabregas because he is not “brought it” in the EPL yet.
Fabregas despite his physical limitations has consistently been top creator and assistmaker in the EPL and in the whole of Europe (for 3 seasons) … while playing in a brutish league filled with brute defenders and callous refs.
Can Xavi, Sneijder, Gourcuff do what Fabregas does consistently in the EPL???
That said, I want Gourcuff in.
Agreed.
I’m just noting how many things that, regardless of where you play, that he can do better than Fabregas. Gourcuff has proven he can do it in France, Italy, and in the Champions League. The BPL is a different animal but I’m game for taking a gamble on his quality. I think he’s that good and could develop into one of the world’s best at Arsenal. It’s time for Wenger to bring in some of that “super quality”.
Gorcuff better than Cesc.
HILARIOUS!
Yes, in that fantastic French Ligue 1, he really lit it up this year.
What did he have 6 goals?
His totals pale in comparison to Cesc.
He’s good.
But if you would trade Cesc for Gorcuff straight up, you have to be on hallucinogenics!
;)
No one has said anything about trading Fabregas for Gourcuff but you. Many people have talked about him being a replacement if Fab leaves. I’ve talked about certain qualitites he has that Fab doesn’t and about bringing him in to play along side Fabregas.
Now, what I have talked about is NASRI being traded for Gourcuff.
I quite like Rosicky and am far from interested in seeing him go. We’ve got a few soft players in our ranks. Tomas isn’t one of them. We need his experience and bottle. He can play pretty football but he can get scrappy as well. If Fabregas leaves, he’s the only midfield player in the squad who can effectively lead our team. Nasri and Arshavin are too self-centered. I think we’ll see Tomas close to his best following a long off-season and a good pre-season. He’s taken a pay cut to stay with the club. We need to keep that experience; but we also need to sign Gourcuff.
I suggested a similar idea a few weeks back that involved a trade to Bordeaux involving Eduardo but Nasri instead of Rosicky. I’m sure if Bordeaux are going to lose their crown jewel, Nasri, being French with a reputation, would give them a better illusion that they’re getting a better deal than Rosicky would. As for Eduardo, I said when he first came back that he looked scared. Maybe a move to another league would do him a world of good. We’ll see.
I also compared the team’s performance when Nasri was in the team compared to when he was out. With him out of the team, we were on course to smash the single season scoring record. As soon as he came back, we fell well off that pace. Same thing happened at Marseille. When Ribery was there, they had a good team playing CL football. As soon as Nasri replaced Ribery, they began to struggle to score. Nasri picked up a knock, and Marseille began to look good again; until Samir came back. Marseille sells Nasri to Arsenal and two years later, guess who the Ligue 1 champions are? Is that a coincidence? Hell to the no. Many of you have been watching Nasri for the past two years but I’ve watched him since 2006. I’ve played with good player and coached good players. Nasri doesn’t have me fooled.
While I’m not opposed to keeping Samir around, because he is still young, I wouldn’t lose a bit of sleep if he were to go. If we’re going to get Gourcuff, we’ve simply got to give Bordeaux a better bait. Nasri is just that; bait.
Anyone who followed our matches this winter and spring, would have noticed that Tomas was our only industrious midfield.
Doesn’t matter what third of the pitch he receives the ball, he beat his opponent with his change of direction and change of pace. Imo, he should have taken over the CM role when Cesc was injured and Nasri moved to the wing.
Good observations Josh about his maturity and unselfishness. He is a leader!
However, when Nasri returned from injury we were without RvP and Bendtner, so I think its unfair to label our goal decline on Nasri reappearing in the line up.
From the little I have seen of Gourcuff, his addition would complement our style.
Yeah, I’m biased and have never hidden that fact. It’s not new. I’ve simply never been a fan of Nasri. I know he’s unlikely to leave Arsenal so I have to support him. Here’s hoping he develops.
Am sorry, Rosicky is of no use to us because it is almost a sure banker he will miss most of the coming season. He has been injury prone ALL his career and worse at Arsenal.
It is time to cut our losses.
I am OK with getting rid of Nasri …. but it is essential we get rid of all our injury prone players too.
C’mon, dog. If we lose Fabregas and Wenger decides to bring in no one, who is there to make things happen? Tomas has shown, both at Arsenal and even more so at Dortmund and for Czech Republic, that he can be that guy.
Sure, he’s had injury problems but after signing a new contract, surely he’s on reduced wages. He’s Fab’s closest friend in the squad and is the only other player who can pull the midfield strings with consistency. There is nothing to lose in keeping Tomas at Arsenal. Besides Fab, he’s the best playmaker we’ve got.
Please name two games against non-relegation teams in which Rosicky has had a significant effect on the match.
His job is not to “pull strings”. His job is more similar to Arshavin than to Fabregas or even Hleb.
Either way, he will miss 75% of the games next season, so its time we CUT OUR LOSSES! Even if he is on 20k/wk which he is not, we still millions for medical treatment.
What chance Gourcuff in exchange for Rosicky and Eduardo plus 10m pounds?
We shed ourselves of 2 players that contribute little yet clog up the roster (and reduce our wage bill), we get a serious creative force to mitigate Fab’s departure, and for Bordeaux they save face by effectively replacing Chamakh and Gourcuff and banking 10m pounds to reduce their debts.
Sounds like win win. I think this type of deal would appeal to Wenger.
Effectively he could add Chamakh, Cole and Gourcuff for 10m pounds capital outlay and refresh his attacking stocks. In doing so he would let Eduardo and Rosicky go in a dignified manner.
Chamakh, Cole, Rodallega
Sounds a little bit like GG’s last days…. Hartson, Helder, Kiwomya
Umm…Joe Cole.
Getting Joe Cole on a free is an absolute no-brainer.
Like Wrighty7 says, why would Joe Cole choose Arsenal over ManU or Spurs when the English contingent at Arsenal is non existent.
http://wrighty7.blogspot.com/2010/05/would-joe-cole-fit-in-at-arsenal.html
anyone still wonder why Barca jettisoned Eto’o?
someone criticizes him, so he wants to take his toys and go home.
booo hooo…
oh don’t cry sammy, it will be ok.
with his 3 CLs, back to back trebles, olympic gold medal, numerous domestic titles and ACN titles plus his 12m per year paycheck and all am sure he will be alright … so no need to worry about him ;-)
ps: i wonder why ibra is being whored around? maybe they figure pique could do a better job down the middle in the crunch ;-)
go Eto’o…
you’re the man.
just got sent off in a FRIENDLY for 2 idiotic tackles against Portugal.
I want him on my team, he’s just brilliant.
I hope nobody criticizes him in the post-match interviews.
He might CRY.
ha ha ha.
Cameroon going out early.
To completely change the topic –
If you go to the wallpapers page – I have 3 new ones up there –
Aaron Ramsey
Thomas Vermaelen
Jens Lehmann
Also the tshirt is in the works. I have had a designer working on I keep making subtle changes to it.
Basically it will have YAMA and a player on the front. On the back it will say – “One Year Later. . . Not Much Has Changed”
Any particular player?
…. who was it saying Robin van Persie is not a crock, just unlucky?
just an ice-pack on the ankle!
I haven’t read any substantial info on what the prognosis is.
Might give us time to get another striker this Summer during our spending spree!
;)
On a sad note…
Arsenal will NOT be able to sign Gary Coleman.
He passed away at aged 42 today.
RIP
Though he might have been a bit old for Arsene Wenger, he surely
would have fit into the finesse midget mold that he usually goes for!
;)
What U talkin’ ’bout Arsene?
Sad . . . but funny.
Getting ready to go away for the holiday weekend, so I missed the new thread…Very nice and timely (what with Mourinho saying he wants Rooney, Gerrard and half the Chelsea team)….Thanks DAG…(Where are the T-shirts?). I’ll be away from the computer while gone, so you won’t have me to kick around….
I think Kiwi’s got it right (about the EPL)….We’re in the midst of a correction. The EPL is a very good product AND a great place for young players to come and show what they’ve got. It dominates the largest world-wide market (places where people speak English as a 1st or 2nd language) and that trend will continue. New football fans love the speed and commitment and (relative) lack of diving/injury faking. Combine that with the fact that the league is relatively wide open and it becomes very exciting. Anybody (in the English speaking world) who becomes attracted to football by watching this years World Cup can follow their favorite player(s) back to their English Club and start watching them again in August. Nipuna will tell you that that’s not possible where he’s from with Players in La Liga. (Though I bet that may change, quickly….)
On the other hand….The violence of the EPL flashes like a giant red light for the foreign stars who are making it in England. The situation will improve but it will take time. Diving, if you’re English or if it helps your team win is well tolerated, but feigning injury isn’t. It’s not that hard to adapt to for the smarter foreign players, the less intelligent ones (like our own Eboue, Vela, Denilson or Eduardo?) have a bit more trouble…. The referees need to sort it out. For awhile, Champion’s League reffing was becoming “more English,” this year not so much, with an attendant decline in the success of the four English teams that played.
I also think that the lack of a Christmas break is very difficult for the best foreign players. For poorer families, Christianity/Xmas/Navidad, etc. is a huge thing and being able for your rich (footballing) kid to come home would be most welcome. The “Festive Period” English Football is great, but maybe the Carling Cup (and early rounds of the FA cup) should be packed into that period while keeping the first weekend of January reserved for the 3rd round of the FA cup. The top teams could play their younger players (like we do already) while the stars get some beach or holiday rest…
Among the other topics discussed….Stevie G? Class? Hmmmm….see my above comments about diving in the EPL….Gotta agree with Fred on that one. Regarding recruiting young players….I think Ozi, the poker player, understands the odds and the paybacks we’ve been getting. With the “homegrown” rules coming into effect, we should start getting some real payback for our long term strategy, esp. in the “lesser” competitions (domestic cups). While those searching for immediate success deride the strategy, we’re building a pyramid here, and youth recruitment is the base….If Fab goes, AW (politically) “needs” to go on a spree, as the board/fans are telling him….Frankly, no matter what, I think if AW would just buy his favorite keeper and CB from among the final 4 or 8 WC teams (paying inflated prices to do so) he wouldn’t go too far wrong…at least in the short term ;-)
have a good Mem.Weekend Steve…
when you get back, it will all be different!
LOL
what t-shirts?
is DAG making shirts with an arrow pointing to Wenger’s picture that says: “I’m with stoopid”!
;)
You might be right Steve, pyramid schemes normally end with the promoter vanishing and leaving a lot of disappointment. ;-)
This probably belongs on the Lets Talk About Cesc tab, but I couldn’t stop laughing when I read this…
Luckily, this column has its grubby little fingers in many pies and can exclusively reveal that Wenger’s mind trick went something like this:
Fabregas: I’m off!
Wenger: There is no escape. Don’t make me destroy you. You do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy… er… I mean football.
Fabregas: I’ll never join you!
Wenger: If you only knew the power of the Arsenal. Pat Rice never told you what happened to your father.
Fabregas: He told me enough.
Wenger: I am your father.
Fabregas: No. No. That’s not true! That’s impossible!
Wenger: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Or something like that anyway.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=790723&sec=global&root=global&cc=5901
Interesting Nugget I saw this morning –
So England World Cup coach David Beckham has been working exclusively with a young budding starlet – one Theodore Walcott. The purpose of their workouts – how to cross the ball properly from the wing.
Niceee… If Theo had Bekham’s final ball, it would immediately make him… uhmm… more useful. Still, knowing how to cross a ball is one thing, having the on pitch mentality to pull off the right kind of ball at the right time (decision making) is completely different.
Good to hear all up. Especially after seeing RVP’s two goals this week…
LOL, re: useful….
With Chamakh in and Bendtner maybe having to wait a year or two before his move to Barca or Real, I think we’re gonna play a bit more 442 and those guys should be decent targets for the young Becks, er, Theo….With Cesc leaving (sooner or later) maybe Theo can learn free-kicks too….
Yeah, nice goals from RVP….A couple more before his next big injury, perhaps?….
In fact, Arsenal players are doing well here in the pre-WC friendlies…Anybody see Diaby’s run to set up France’s nice come-from-behind win against Ecuador or Trinidad and Tobago or Greneda or somebody?….
“Wenger has been buying younger and younger, but he did buy Vieira AND Henry, and they grew into great players.
He bought Cesc at 16, and look where he’s at now.”
________________________________
We know he bought Vieira at 20 and Henry at 22. Fabregas is the outlier at 16.
So in 13 years one youngster has made it big, whoopee…. let’s design a recruitment strategy around that.
Wenger’s success was built around young players over 20 and relatively unheralded players in their mid-20’s – not players under 20. His strike-rate on young players under 20 is hopeless. I could have put up a fuller list, but restricted it to the young players that actually made it into the first team frame.
he has in recent years started buying YOUNGER talent, probably because they are cheaper… and in his mind/words, wanted to create a loyalty to the club.
But age 20 and 22 aren’t exactly OLD players. Rarely are 20 year olds established star players, and neither Vieira or Henry were close to what they became at Arsenal.
We’re in circle jerk.
Aw, come on, kiwi.
stagg MK III is repetitive, but he’s not a jerk.
;-)
:-)
Stag’s changes are like the iterations of Arsenal post-invincibles
embrace the PLAN.
embrace the PLAN.
embrace the PLAN.
nobody close to touching us in the profit league baby!
Arsene’s popularity among fans plunges.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article7137350.ece
200 people is not a big sample, but it does indicate a trend.
13th best among 20.
Time for a reality check. It helps to comment on facts.
These are the high-profile young players signed by Arsenal over the period 2001-2010, aged between 15-18. The number before their names is their age when signed.
18 Denilson
18 Clichy
18 Song
18 Senderos
18 Ramsey
18 Djourou
17 Merida
17 Walcott
17 Vela
17 Bendtner
16 Muamba
16 Fabregas
16 Larsson
16 Traore
15 Gibbs
Of this group of 15:
1 is a superstar Fabregas,
2 regulars Clichy, and Song became a regular this past season
4 have left/are leaving (Larsson,Muamba,Senderos,Merida)
the rest are ‘whatevers’, who knows, maybes
Does that look like a winning recruitment strategy to you?
well, it has helped keep Arsenal in the Top 4 every single season from 2001 to 2010.
Seems like it has been pretty damned successful to me!
Kiwi I hear what you are saying. And I do not like that our strategy is skewed towards the youth to the extent it is. But I don’t think it is quite right to write off Wenger’s strike rate of finding youth players this early before all the listed players have reached their prime age.
I don’t think the strike rate will be as high as it has been for the, like you say, young 20 something year olds (who he has obv seen play for that much longer before signing). But I don’t think it will be as bad as your post suggests. Finding a player in the class of Fab is ridiculously low, and if Arsenal got that kind of player in once every 7 years, I think it would be about right mathematically.
But yea, as for the first team, the 20 something recruitment strategy definitely needs to be phased back in to get the balance back.
It’s true someone else could do a Song. And that would be fine if the youth strategy was in its rightful place and balanced…. as you say.
Came across a set of quotes from Bill Shankley
Very appropriate time to put my picks here ..
“At a football club, there’s a holy trinity – the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques.”
“If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing.”
“It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for, and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against.” On the ‘This is Anfield’ plaque
Also this one from Bruce Lee:
As an instructor, you must be able to distinguish between poor
performance caused by lack of ability or aptitude on the part of
the student and poor performance caused by lack of effort. You
should treat the first with patience and the latter with firmness. You must never apply sarcasm and ridicule. (and SPIN .. wrt Wenger)
I think we need a hard core English assistant coach (not sure whether Pat Rice does this, dosent seem from the look of things) to motivate our guys. Someone to ocmplement Wenger’s philosophy.
I do not believe we lack in quality. Lack of motivation is not understandable.
What Walcott does once or twice in a match, he is entirely capable of doing it a dozen times, same with Bendtner and Arshavin and Diaby and Nasri. These guys are more than just-ordinary.
Wenger needs to be stricter. A stronger and fitter bench might definitely help.
The piece about Bendtner is fucking hilarious … even an oaf like him that we have been patient with has ZERO loyalty to the “youth project”. Arsenal is just a stepping stone for him on his way to Madrid and Barcelona.
Mark my words, the ONLY reason, Nasri, Denilson and Diaby are not making plans to leave is because they have had poor seasons and nobody wants them.
So we have wasted five years on this lot, sacrificed success so as not to “kill” these ungrateful punks … yet the very first hint of them even “arriving” as a player … and they bail out. Arsenal is just that English Champions League club that nurses foreign kids for the other giant clubs. Its really incredible.
————————-
I have said it several times, we NEED to go back to having a core of English players. The old argument that English players are not good enough to play our style of play has been exposed as the steaming pile of cow shit it is.
Joe Hart, Gary Cahill, Scott Parker, Joe Cole. This would add to our current roster of Sol Campbell, Kieran Gibbs, Theo Walcott and Jack Wilshere.
We can get those four players for 30 million. Ofcourse I dont expect the irrationally, anti-English Wenger to see the value in bringing those guys in.
I was thinking something similar; Gerrard, Cahill and Hart. ;-)
Not sure on Joe Cole, might be more a Rosicky than a Pires.
I’d ditch Walcott pronto. Hopefully he’ll do one of his once-in-a-blue-moon whow things at the WC and we can sell him for 20m maybe even a bit more. That money can be used to retire debt because losing Walcott would be a boost to the squad.
first of all, nobody is paying 20 Million GBP for Theo Walcott.
I like Theo, think he’s too young for “this team” to give up on, but there is NO CHANCE we get 20 Million for him.
If we could get 12 to 15, I’d DRIVE him to the airport, and I think he can improve…
at this point, he has simply not shown enough, and is too injury prone.
he might do better in Spain or a less physical league.
I think there is little to NO chance Wenger would sell off Theo now, and he surely isn’t going to ask for a transfer!
I agree with much of what you say Stag. Then again, I understand when we bought him as a 16 year old we paid an amount of up to 15m. If we’re that thick, and we have a sophisticated manager and a prudent board surely some of the clubs with ‘less capable’ leadership will pay over the odds????
For some reason he only has to perform ocassionaly and the English footballing establishment goes weak at the knees. It’s comical.
His presence at the club is an embarrassment.
Purchasing Theo for 15 Mill was certainly not financially prudent, in fact, it was just plain stupid.
If you consider that Nasri, Arshavin, Sagna, Vermaelen, Ramsey and Rosicky were all brought in for less money, it goes from stupid to ridiculous.
what is an embarrassment about Theo being at the Arsenal?
I don’t quite understand the comment.
He was bought very young, and that is exactly what Arsene does. Sometimes it works (Cesc), sometimes it doesn’t. It is not a fool-proof plan, but then again, what is?
The fact is, he’s been injured pretty much every year. If he could have a full season, injury free, perhaps we might see what’s what with him.
Purchasing for “up to” 15 Million, I think was based on performance or number of starts?
I don’t think it was a straight 15 Million. But I could be wrong.
But again… You don’t know the future. We were hardly the ONLY big team that wanted Theo Walcott. And Arsenal’s MO is… buy young, very young, mold them into good players, and sell them off for a big profit… (ideally getting their best years along the way)
In hindsight, he hasn’t been worth the money, but you simply don’t know who will blossom into a star, and who won’t. MANY teams wanted Theo, not just Arsenal.
“buy young, very young, mold them into good players, and sell them off for a big profit… (ideally getting their best years along the way)
_______________
Do you believe what you’ve written Stag?
Nice theory… does it happen? Seriously, can you name 5 players who fit that profile over the last 5 years.
When you buy a 16 year old, the lead times are enormous, the uncertainty equally so. For heavens sake, they’re kids, you’ve no idea how they’ll shape up mentally, physically, emotionally. Yet our commitment to this corny strategy dominates other approaches.
I don’t need to know the future, I know that if you buy a 21 year old over a 16 year old you have an extra 5 years of growth and experience to base your judgement upon.
That’s exactly why you don’t spend 15 Mill on a kid.
Remember guys, RVP, Fabregas, Bendtner, Vela, Cole, Gibbs, Merida, etc. were all cheap.
Wenger has been buying younger and younger, but he did buy Vieira AND Henry, and they grew into great players.
He bought Cesc at 16, and look where he’s at now.
Gerrard to Arsenal FC is absurd but not for the reasons you put forward Fred. The absurdity is that we don’t seek out, recruit and reward achievers. Steven Gerrard is an excellent footballer and has many of the qualities that this Arsenal side lack. Recruiting Gerrard would force some of the changes that Wenger is personally incapable of making. It would change the dressing room culture. It would bring a directness to our game.
Gerrard’s longevity is a plus not a minus. Contrast his games average to that of RvP, Rosicky, Eduardo, Diaby and Walcott. Age means little in this regard (just look at Scott Parker who you suggest and who is the same age and I’d suggest whose body is similarly worn).
Reality is Wenger won’t even contemplate signing Gerrard (or Parker). He’d rather sign 16 year old Ipi Ntombi from Nice and spin more nonsense.
It’s the long slow boat ride to China with skipper Wenger at the helm. It’s become a massive yawn.
I read Bendtner telling the Danish press that he intends to go to Barcelona or Real Madrid. There you go, if ever there was a player who personified Wengers post-invincibles approach it’s Bendtner (and Walcott). Bendtner has been the undeserved beneficiary of mega game-time for 3 seasons. He’s been a key reason Wenger refuses to restock our attacking resources. Yet even now he’s decidedly average(?) at best, a player that wouldn’t look out of place on the bench at Bolton or Birmingham. Now, according to the MoT mantra Bendtner is of rare quality and this will shine through (ok, that hasn’t happened), the other benefit Arsenal will derive is a player more committed to the Arsenal cause long-term because the players grow together. LOL – it ain’t happening cause the glue that sticks teams together is calling ‘winning’. If this team actually won something then perhaps the Bendtners and the Fabregas’s would be more inclined to stay around Arsenal longer. Without winning you’re poked.
It’s more than a little interesting to look at Chelsea and see the way that team that appeared to have all the right ingredients to self destruct has stayed together. Now, you can put that all down to money and to be sure that is a key contributor. But I think another key dynamic is the Englishness of the core. Terry, Lampard, J.Cole, and A.Cole. As long as they’re well-paid and having on-field success these guys are happy to stay at Chelsea – it’s that simple. They don’t have the PULL to go home – they are home.
Gerrard has FAR more mileage on him than Parker. He is second only to Vieira with regards to turf covered in the EPL, etc.
He is also a box-to-box AM while Parker is more defensive. The former always covers more ground. Plus Gerrard has carried Liverpool for ten years in the EPL, played tons of CL, FA and international games. Parker has spent quite a few seasons on the bench …. and most of his career his seasons consisted of a bare minimum 40 games.
My point: They dont have the same type of mileage at all.
We need a DEFENSIVE, hard-tackling guy who has a burning desire for some silverware. I think Parker is a sweet fit.
If Gerrard has any hunger he will bring it for Liverpool … not for a London club he doesnt care about.
I hear what you’re saying, Gerrard has played a lot. Then again, so has Lampard (probably more), yet Chelsea have just won the double with him central.
I like Song as a DM so I’d rather see a complimentary CM, hence Gerrard.
I liked the Vieira/Petit combo which worked well in the EPL. Let’s be candid, Wenger’s formations post 4-4-2 have been crap.
Nice article DAG:
Three pedantic corrections though …
1) The top tax bracket in Spain was jacked up to 47% recently … so its not that much less than that of England.
2) Spain league players get paid twice per year not once. Actually thats the rule for all folks earning over 100 grand.
3) Scotland and Spain might have ease of winning but Germany – not so much. The Bundesliga is more competitive than those two. Bayern hardly ever blows the field away consistently. There is always a dark horse team that can realistically take it from them. Not so in Spain or Scotland.
The Gerrard idea is absurd. The guy is past it … far more past it than Vieira was when he was sold.
To be fair to him, he has almost single-handedly been carrying ‘pool for a decade now. He is like car with 350,000 miles on it … he is knackered from prolonged burden. His gradual dip is one of the reasons ‘pool slipped last season.
Except we want him to be the one to captain us out of the top four like he did with Liverpool we shouldn’t go near him.
We NEED a big-time JOLT of energy … not an unnecessary name player.
I like the idea of bringing in a 28 to 32 year old though … thats why I suggest Scott Parker and Orlando Engeelar. They are experienced enough but still have bite … plus they are defensive mids which is what we REALLY need. Nasri and Wilshere can sort out the AM position.
Getting BOTH Parker and Engeelar would cost HALF of getting Gerrard.
Last but not the least: Why on earth would Gerrard want to join us???? Liverpool have as much chance of winning something next season as Arsenal. At least they consider the FA cup and League cup as silverware.
LOVE the idea of Scott Parker, on a couple of levels. Was just reading this and thinking ‘If only….”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1281634/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Scott-brave–tough-tackling-Parker-given-chance.html?ITO=1490
Barca do not want to give more than 30m for Cesc, and Arsenal obviously wants a good deal more. How to reconcile this? Luckily for Barca (according to a rumor I read today), they know Arsene’s weak spot: Kids. I read that Barca will launch a last-ditch effort to sign Cesc for 30m by offering that fee plus a few of their best youngsters. We all know Arsene can’t resist 16-20 year olds with lots of potential. Throw in 2-4 of those, and he wouldn’t be able to resist.
so, we get 2 more 16 to 18 year olds, we groom them, they blossom under Wenger and Arsenal, and when they are maturing into good players, they want to go back to Barcelona, where they came from?
Ummmm, yeah.
Sounds like a good deal… just not for Arsenal.
We are a “feeder club” for Barcelona if we do that.
Kiwi, if Gerrard leaves Liverpool I can’t see him going to another English club. He’s a born-and-bred Liverpudlian whose supported the Reds his entire life. I don’t think he’d want to play against them. That scenario is also something the club and its supporters would probably want to avoid as well.
This is really really comforting:
“Arsenal chairman Peter Hill-Wood has told ESPNsoccernet that manager Arsene Wenger will have every penny from the sale from any player this summer to spend as he sees fit.”
Oh wonderful.
So if we SELL a player, we can try to replace him by spending all
the money we make from the sale…
And…
how exactly does this make us better?
great plan if we are trying to tread water…
oh right…
that’s what we have been trying to do for the past 5 years, and
have done so succcessfully.
So why change now? we won’t.
Its a GREAT financial plan, especially with Wenger running it, because
he isn’t even likely to spend “every penny” we make from a sale.
We will always end up with a profit.
Looking forward to when we are out of (stadium) debt, so we can actually
attempt to compete for trophies… in the mean time, enjoy the
good football and 4th place finishes. Its not so bad.
Peter Hill-Wood – he’s like our own Joe Biden.
Basically he needs to shut up and let football be discussed by people who actually know what they are talking about.
It’s time for Peter to put the brand snifter down.
yes, he puts his foot in his mouth regularly…
nothing positive from this guy speaking on the club’s behalf.
Mourinho comments that… “I like players in the last part of their career”… saying he would target Gerrard and Lampard.
Wenger, meh… not so much. He doesn’t like players anywhere near 30.
That’s perhaps why Mourinho wins trophies, and Arsene & Arsenal make money and win the profit league. We sell players approaching 30, Mourinho wants these players for a few years, so he can WIN TROPHIES.
Don’t see Wenger changing his thoughts any time soon!
In regard to Cesc, and his conversation with Wenger that was the “greatest of his life”…
My guess is that he told him, OK, you are going to Barcelona… but please, as a show of respect to Arsenal, please do not discuss it, or say anything about it… we will sell you there, and send you home.
But, if we do so before securing a replacement or getting new players in, it puts us in a bad position as “panic buyers”, so the price will go up for players coming in. Cescy loves Wenger, of course he’d go along with it… I expect the deal to be done after the WC, and IF Wenger is getting anybody in, he’ll do it BEFORE he announces Cesc’s sale…
It is for Ar$enal… all about the money.
Paul Merson thinks we should sell Cesc for the most we can get and then buy Steven Gerrard. Sounds like an impulse comment doesn’t it? Then again, what would you be doing? With Cesc you’d be selling a player that clearly has had his head turned and that most accept will go sooner rather than later. You’ll probably get 50m pounds from Barca. What about Gerrard? Well, he’s a class act on the field. In some ways Cesc this season started to remind me a bit of Gerrard, late winning goals, massive penalties, and some powerful captains performances. So on the pitch he’d hold his own as a class player. He could also be captain – ouch. Why not? Cesc goes, we need a captain. Who else? The only candidate I can see is Vermaelen and I’d prefer to see his 2nd season before burdening him with that – he can be vice-captain. RvP some might say, yet nah, firstly he won’t be on the pitch for 80% of games and secondly he’s a striker who aren’t well positioned to lead.
The other thing about Gerrard is he’s English and won’t run away to France or Spain, he’s 30 in a few days thats true, yet he can run around for a few more years. And frankly, the guys in their prime aren’t exactly setting the fitness stats alight are they?
So, change the system, go back to 4-4-2, have Gerrard alongside Song in the CM, Gerrard gives you 10+ EPL goals a season. Stick Chamakh and RvP up front (I’ll let Robin stay, altho I’d buy someone to cover him), have Arshavin and Nasri in the wide-boy roles. Buy a CB or two, buy a decent keeper.
Gerrard comes with many side benefits, he’s experienced and well regarded by (almost) everyone. He’s a goal scorer in the Lampard class taking pressure off others. He has bottle bigtime. The press will love him and cut us a bit more slack (not that I care). He’s also hungry, he’s done ok at Liverpool but you get the sense he’s jaded by their inconsistency. He’d be up for a new challenge I think. I can’t see him joining ManU (Liverpool fans would never forgive him), Chelsea yes – but they have Lampard, ManC – no way, overseas – I think he needed to go a couple of years ago to get a big move to a Real, but Arsenal would be an inoffensive move.
Go on Wenger, give it a go. :-)
Sorry an epistle…..
A nice diversion Mike.
The EPL has changed massively, and for the better, in the last 12 years so any recent ‘dip’ has to be viewed with a sense of perspective.
The EPL has always been intense and passionate and these attributes are a major part of why it enjoys a massive following all over the world. As to whether it is or has ever been ‘the best’ is hard to judge. It depends on the criteria you want to apply as measurement. The irony is that the deeply rooted physical aspect of play is both a critical attraction and a significant concern. It won’t simply ‘go away’ it has to be harnessed. I think it is possible for this to be done through targeting and punishing bad tackling technique. If the focus is on the ‘technique’ I think it will work and the English game will rid itself of some of the more ugly tackles that our boys have been a victim of.
Speaking more broadly, like the last 20 years, 3 leagues have dominated and attracted the best players. They are of course England, Spain and Italy. Indeed, Italy for a time was the real money-bags and league-of-choice for those stars who took their skills to foreign shores. Spanish clubs have always had strong ties with South American countries and enjoyed a flow of that regions football talent. That aside their big two, Real and Barca, have long been a magnet for top top players from everywhere. Success begets success.
In more recent times leagues like Germany and France seem to be making serious inroads into the dominance of the big 3. Germany has always had massive clubs, like Bayern (a superpower), and even the likes of BM. Yet there is now a sense that their whole league is challenging the big 3 financially and with their strong support bases. Likewise France, their growth looks deep and well rooted.
More specifically on players, Ronaldo, as a mega-star with a rather large ego, was undoubtedly attracted to the glamour and money at Real. Who knows, as a Portugese lad the climate and more familiar cultural alignment may have played a part too. Then again, most foreign players move on to a new challenge after a while. With the Spanish strikers, I think it more relevant to consider the fact that we DID attract Torres than the ones who haven’t come over. The success of Torres is significant, shame he hasn’t won anything! When you look at the 3 big leagues, you’ll note that there isn’t a lot of player-swapping. Italian players tend to stay in Italy, English in England and Spanish in Spain. It’s not hard to understand, firstly they’re well rewarded and secondly we all like home, and we all enjoy comfort and familiarity. The players from non-big-3 leagues (excluding Germany) are the ones who almost always move – assuming they have the talent – their domestic leagues simply don’t have the same ability to reward them nor the sense of glamour to keep them.
Has the EPL lost ground? Yes probably, but only if you’re looking at a relatively short time frame. I think a broader perspective suggests that Italy is the big loser, not so long ago they were THE league that most foreign stars wanted to go to (and did). Not anymore. The EPL and La Liga have risen whilst Serie A has been drawn back into the group of 3. Germany and France have undoubtedly progressed.
The major European football leagues have become relatively open, players move about, the huge talents will be keenly sought after and will gravitate to the clubs that pay the most and offer a real hope of on-field success. Other factors like the clubs history & glamour and the country’s culture & climate are more nuanced and yet do have a real impact.
A chance to win something and skip another English Winter/live in Barcelona?
Too easy.
Cesc has always wanted to play for Barcelona.
At age 16, he got the opportunity to go to London, and Arsenal, and
get the chance to PLAY regularly for a top level team.
He has played for Arsenal for 7 YEARS.
That is a LONG time in sports… especially today when it is
rare in most sports for players to play for ONE TEAM.
Whether it happens this Summer or next… Cesc going back to Barcelona
has very little to do with the EPL.
Why would a Spanish lad want to spend his career in England, when he
could make as much or more, playing where he WANTS to… his homeland
The EPL attracts many star players from all over the globe.
It is the most watched, most successful league in the world.
It had only 1 in the Final 4 of the CL this year, but look at the results of previous years… the EPL has dominated recently.
There is nothing wrong with the EPL, unless you are Spanish, or Italian… the 2 leagues that really compete with England.
France, who goes there once they become stars? Germany, yes… some success, but other than Ribery, do big names shun La Liga, Serie A and The Prem… for Germany? Not really.
I like your take on league styles, tax, competition level, climate, no winter break, media dislike of foreigners (unless they play for your local club) – the pro’s and con’s.
Your article is centered on key players and while most are making exorbitant sums, there comes a point where the silverware substantiates their fame (over the paycheck).
Its pure speculation which scenario fits Cesc.
It is quite possible that the tv revenue situation in spain will change soon. The other clubs cannot compete or show profit without some share of this revenue. 3rd place Valencia was some 25 or 26 points behind 2nd place Real.
As far as Arsenal are concerned, there are so many countries whose major sport is football. Talent is out there at every experience level.