EPL Match Day 32: Arsenal v Liverpool; Match Preview
Well its been quite a week for the Arsenal hasn’t it. We saw our club taken over (albeit warmly) by Stan Kroenke and immediately after that Danny Fiszman, the driving force for the move to Emirates succumbed to his battle against cancer. Maybe its only fitting that the week end with a match that has so much potential.
While beating the lower tier teams is a must, playing against a good club is always a treat. And sure Liverpool have had their issues but since the return of Kenny Dalglish there is a sense of pride once more at Anfield. Which means even though I like our chances this will not be an easy match. Both squads have something to fight for. Liverpool have more than a solid chance of returning to the top four considering the form of City and Spurs. Arsenal, well the Gunners they still – technically – have the league to fight for.
And frankly that is whythis is not a match that fills me with an abundance of confidence. This is one of those matches where if we win we can gain ground on United. With the Manchester lads taking out each other over at Wembley, Arsene Wenger’s boys have a chance to move within a manageable 4 points of the leaders, United. And that’s why it makes me nervous. In pretty much every match where we had the opportunity to make up ground this season, we haven’t. We’ve taken a point mostly but those are not enough. Whenit comes down to it – as PIres and Paddy have said recently at an average age of 23 – we don’t have the instinct or or mental fortitude to take us one step further.
For this match and to win the title, Arsenal need to be at their rip roaring (ala Chelsea and Barcelona) best. The good news is that except for one player, we have all of our first choice starting XI available for the match. At the time of my writing this entry Sagna is still listed as a doubt for the match. It’s a shame actually because he would do a good job on Meireles.
Returning to the squad and fit enough to start (I believe) are Szczesny, Djourou and Song. Denilson is back too but you all know my view on the Brazillian. If you don’t – take a guess. That gives us a very strong midfield and strength in the middle of the defence. With Sagna out though, Eboue will get the nod on the right. Which is why I am happy Djourou is back – he does such an outstanding job of covering for the fullbacks when there are errors. And let’s not forget we have Lehmann Mark 2 in Szczesny in goal. His confidence and ability are only going to grow and enhance his stature over time. He has shown himself to be aptly able to handle these big matches.
But what I want to see is Arshavin vs Flannagan. This match against Liverpool is a fixture Andrei gets up for. He has done well and his ability to create assists – leads the team with 11 – will make him valuable against a rookie defender. This is the kind of game that Andrei wants to play in. He gets up for it and will be hungry and what better way to feed that than let him go against Flannagan. That being said – if Walcott starts – you would move Nasri on the left and Walcott on the right. Nasri would have just as much a chance of shredding Flannagan one v one as would Arshavin.
Either way as we have discussed our first choice players are good enough to go toe to toe with anyone if they are up for it. I do believe they are. Why you ask? Even if I don’t have confidence you say? Well, it was nice to hear that both Fabregas (on the pitch) and Van Persie (off the pitch) decided to ream Diaby a new one for being an idiot last week against Blackpool. We’ve all discussed how this team needs leaders to stand up and make players accountable. Maybe, finally that is happening. I know its one incident but its about bloody time with this group of players. Its finally nice to hear that at least a few of the players realize what is at stake and they are going to make sure others do too.
For me these next two games will define our season. Sunday Liverpool home and then Wednesday we can lock in St. Totteringham’s day early as we visit White Heart Lane. I would prefer 6 points from the two matches but 4 would suffice. We need ’em all if we want to win the title.
How the Match Should Play Out:
I expect a lot of energy on boths sides for much of the game. It will come down to witch squad can maintain it and maintain some sense of control and not get lost in the drawa of it all. This is why Diaby doesn’t get the nod today. He tends to over react (alot) when things are called against him and we need level headed players on the pitch. All in all it won’t be a scrappy affair as both teams need to score. And open match should be in the offing with Liverpool trying to feed Carroll with crosses in the middle. Arsenal will attack the rear flanks especially the Flannagan/Carragher side. In the end I am picking Arsenal to nip this one. Liverpool are in good form but when matches come up they must win – they haven’t lately.
Players to Watch:
Arsenal: Andrei Arshavin. I am hoping to see the return of the mercurial Russian who shrouded himself in glory his first trip to Anfield. Even his cracker goal in his second ever trip to Anfield was legendary. Its time for him to make himself a legend at the Emirates.
Liverpool: Andy Caroll. The £35 million pound forward comes to the Emirates for the first time since his move to Anfield. In his last trip to the Emirates he scored a 45th minute header to seal the deal and shock the Gunners. Let’s hope he doesn’t do that again.
Projected Lineups:
Injuries and Suspensions:
Arsenal: Fabianksi (shoulder) Vermaelen (achilles) Almunia (D- knee) Sagna (D – knee)
Liverpool; Gerrard (groin) Agger (knee) Johnson (hamstring) Kelly (bamstring)
Last Meeting (EPL):
Arsenal: 1
Liverpool: 1
Current Form:
Arsenal: WDDDW
Liverpool: WLWWL
Goals For:
Arsenal (home): 1.9
Liverpool (away):1.0
Goals Against:
Arsenal (home): 0.8
Liverpool (away): 1.6
Goal Differential:
Arsenal: 32
Liverpool: 7
Leading Scorers:
Arsenal: Van Persie 16 (12 league) Nasri 14 (9 league)
Liverpool Carroll 13 (13 league)* Kuyt 11 (9 league)
*Carroll scored 11 for NUFC
Match Officials:
Referee: Andre Marriner
Assistant Referees: Ron Ganfield & Adam Watts
Fourth Official: Peter Walton
Broadcast Information:
US: FSC 1100 AM EST
UK: Sky Sports 1 1400 BST
GAMEDAY CHAT: It’s Open!!!!!! www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
YAMA Prediction:
Arsenal: 2
Liverpool: 1
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45. I have fun with, lead to I found just what I was having a look for. You’ve ended my four day lengthy hunt! God Bless you man. Have a nice day. Bye
“No I would not give you false hope on this strange and mournful day, but the Gunners and Title reunion is still a fucking pipedream until we do some serious shopping.”
I’m dreading the Sp*ds game.
@macmac007, Where’s that quote from?
I’m not dreading the game at all. After Spurs 1st leg, Newcastle, Wigan, Sunderland, Pool… We’ve been conditioned to expect the worst. We can’t possibly be left disappointed!
Fabregas:
“The 23-year-old also believes manager Arsene Wenger would probably have lost his job if he was a coach in Spain.”
“And Fabregas believes Arsenal boss Wenger would have faced increased pressure in Spain to produce trophies.
He continued: “It’s clear that if you come to Spain and say to [Unai] Emery [the Valencia manager], [Pep] Guardiola or [Jose] Mourinho that they’ll win nothing in the next three years, it’s obvious they wouldn’t continue [in their jobs].
“But here it’s different. The boss is an intelligent person and the club values other things: that the team is always in the Champions League, that it fights until the end, that it brings young players through, the economic stability.
“I suppose for the board that’s important, although I imagine there will be a moment when you have to decide to take the next step – to win or not to win.””
———————————————————
Ahaha, me thinks a certain Spaniard is about to get his ass shipped out ASAP … no way Muammar G. Wenger allows a dissident to question his dictatorship.
@Fred,
In YAMA terms, Fab is still posting, while Arsene and the Board are just reading.
@vibe4arsenal,
Hahahahaha!!!
@Fred,
Great work Cesc, keep the comments coming
@ HTS:
“And Nasri (the 2nd best player in the league….puh-leeze–the PFAs are a joke….) of course will also be gone (so I’m told)….I really doubt it. ANYBODY who has watched more than just his goals knows how very limited he is. In fact, Cesc and Nasri are two of the LEAST athletic footballers playing at their (supposed) level and the latter isn’t that much of a passer either….Both will fit in fine in clubs that already are super strong (i.e., not Arsenal) but asking them to carry a club is maybe too much….”
Aha, Nasri (and RvP by the way) are quite limited and he knows it … that is why he would seek to move. As you said, he doesnt have the ability to carry the team. So he will move for a big payday while his stock is still high, rather than ending up as an “Arshavin”.
So you pretty much (in a roundabout way) agree with what I said in January that Nasri would probably look to leave because for him it makes sense to cash in now and because he knows he isnt good enough to really carry a team. And to be fair, even if a player is good enough, why would you want that burden for half the wages you can make elsewhere.
I would be very surprised to see Nasri not make a serious out move in the summer.
As for Cesc. He is NOT in the same boat with Nasri. He is not athletic (we all knew that) but he is consistently a top 3 passer in Europe. In my view he is second only to Xavi with regards to passing … and he has been single-handedly carrying Arsenal for half a decade now. The same cant be said of Nasri.
Also, as “non-athletic” as he is, he is still physically superior to Xavi and Iniesta. That is why a move to Barca makes so much sense for him. If he moves, he can then concentrate on improving his one technical weakness “movement” – (Iniesta is Europe’s master at that).
Nasri, like the other overhyped guy, Robin The Perse, are not just non-athletic good players, who in my view dont have any technical skills that could make them great.
@Fred, I’m not quite sure if we’re agreeing or not…..(generally I think we are….)
The problem with the idea that we’re gonna ship players out (whether or not we “like” them or they are among our best) is that we’re clearly in a model where we’re attempting (for better or worse) to compensate players at a very high level in lieu of paying (often exhorbitant) transfer fees for “name” players which might show our “ambition”. This may change over the summer with the change in ownership, but I rather doubt it.
We’ve gone back and forth a few times about how much our players are actually compensated and we truly don’t know the facts. It’s frustrating, but all we can really say is that our players seem to be on “long, high paying contracts.”
In the case of Nasri (and Cesc) and many others in the first 11 (including Clichy) my guess is that we’re going to see more continuation of the model, i.e., these guys signing longer term, higher paying contracts rather than being sold. There are just too few other teams these days with money to pay a hefty fee AND match our salaries. If the transfer requests start being turned in, well, that’s another story. (Remember, however, the Rooney saga in mid-season, for a taste of what might lie ahead)…..
Time will tell, of course, but I think, with maybe a few exceptions, we’re more or less stuck with the personnel we’ve got. Of course, now that United have undone the work of AHBOOEEE, (false) hope is alive again. If we could somehow contrive to get to the United match with a chance to get within one point of them (i.e., beat Spurs and Bolton.) it would be a huge boost. Doing it is another matter entirely…..
@Fred,
I think Nasri is an excellent athlete. He is very strong and very quick. He has excellent dribbling ability and glides past players like Alex Hleb on speed. His passing is not on Cesc’s level, but adequate. I think he’ll continue to develop nicely and become a very important player to Arsenal, if he stays.
RVP is not athletic, but he is all class. His first touch is comparable to Bergkamp. While I think the current formation suits him as it allows him to bring others into play, his fragility and lack of pace means he is not the best long term option. I would like to see him partnered with a pacy striker, a la Bergkamp and Henry. It would be nice to see if Theo could develop into this striker (Altho he will never be as good as the King). A top pacy striker is a must in the summer. Eto? Old and egotistical but he is a lethal finisher.
Where does that leave Cesc? Can he consistently in a 4-4-2? Maybe alongside Jack, but then he would become less of a focal point.
@rocka, disagree totally. RVP is an athlete. athletic. no doubt.
@rocka, disagree totally. RVP is an athlete. athletic. no doubt.
And the false hope rises like a phoenix from the ashes. .
Stag, try running YAMA in Mozilla or some other browser to avoid double posts (or maybe DAG could fix this….)
Couple of thoughts while watching Newcastle-ManU….That match is still nil-nil in the 89th min. but I don’t get the impression that if United score, they’ll also concede, which is what I felt the entire 2nd half on Sunday….
For me, Cesc’s statement is really nothing exceptional. (And who are these AKBs everybody keeps mentioning? I don’t see tons of support for the manager these days….) He IS priming the pump for another go-round this summer but, esp. given his woeful performance at the Camp Nou, I don’t really see why Arsenal would sell Cesc unless the owner (Kronke) thinks he’s the problem. With Cesc ruling out all teams except Barca they would need to come up with a monster offer and I don’t see the pressure on that club to do so…..
And Nasri (the 2nd best player in the league….puh-leeze–the PFAs are a joke….) of course will also be gone (so I’m told)….I really doubt it. ANYBODY who has watched more than just his goals knows how very limited he is. In fact, Cesc and Nasri are two of the LEAST athletic footballers playing at their (supposed) level and the latter isn’t that much of a passer either….Both will fit in fine in clubs that already are super strong (i.e., not Arsenal) but asking them to carry a club is maybe too much….
Also, I have a question….Now that Stan has “triggered the takeover” how long must he honor the current share price? (Or is it always on offer?) Usmanov supposedly won’t sell, which saves Kronke a huge amount of cash. Is it at all possible that the two billionaires might work together to infuse some money into the club possibly by buying out some contracts AND bringing in some new players? Far east (and American) tours are all fine and good, but far flung fans (myself included) need a reasonably competitive team to justify their support.
@highburyterracesteve, Finishes nil-nil. Sneezy was right about United dropping points….
Lucky for them they still get to play us….
@highburyterracesteve, oh, and the AKBers have all but dissapeared, because the team has played like absolute SHIT since the CC Final.
They only sing when they’re winning.
@stag133,
That is not why the AKBers are gone.
They are still here reading. They just don’t post.
@DaAdminGooner,
You probably knew what stagg meant by ‘disappeared’. It’s another part of the repeating pattern of the last 4 years. The AKBers spend seven months a season talking about how much the club has improved, how wrong we were to doubt the Master’s plan.
Seven months of over-celebrating wins we should expect and making excuses for the losses we shouldn’t.
Seven months of being ‘better’ supporters then those who long ago tired of kissing the hem of the Emperor’s tattered old clothes.
Then when their whole raison d’être (keeping it French, yo) is exposed, yet again, they, for all intents and purposes, disappear. Because once opinions become fact, yet again, they really have nothing else to say.
No worries. They’ll reappear soon enough. And barring a significant change in AFC management, every bit of it will start all over again. As if the last two months of the past four seasons never happened. As if the season is only seven months long.
@vibe4arsenal,
Maybe you can write a thesis about it
@highburyterracesteve, not worried about the double posting. It is what it is. If it gets sorted, great, if not… oh well. I don’t have time to sort it out myself!
from Soccernet:
Arsenal captain Cesc Fabregas has warned the club must make a decision between relying on youngsters and winning trophies.
Hmmm.
Took a few years for Cescy to say EXACTLY what I have been saying for about 4 or 5 years… but that’s OK.
So, have at him AKBers…
He should be TRASHED, HUNG, STONED TO DEATH… he is speaking against the policies of Arsene… take the Captain’s band off him quick… for he speaks the truth.
He’ll be in Barcelona next year, so … it won’t matter much.
But glad to see he’s come around. :skeleton:
@stag133,
The interview has already been debunked as bogus – its a Spanish magazine with Barca affiliations.
The only thing worse than the British Tabloid Press is the Spanish Press.
@DaAdminGooner,
It is on the BBC. The BBC are very reliable when it comes to these things.
@DaAdminGooner, like Fred said… BBC…
I certainly believe he said it…
He is tired of LOSING and playing with FRAGILE kids who’ve never won shit.
By telling the truth, the Board and Wenger will certainly entertain sending him away.
You just can’t say those things about the club!!!
@stag133, He’s got a point. It’s all about the right balance isn’t it…
from Soccernet:
Cesc: We’ll win nothing with kids.
Arsenal captain Cesc Fabregas has warned the club must make a decision between relying on youngsters and winning trophies.
Hmmm.
Took a few years for Cescy to say EXACTLY what I have been saying for about 4 or 5 years… but that’s OK.
So, have at him AKBers…
He should be TRASHED, HUNG, STONED TO DEATH… he is speaking against the policies of Arsene… take the Captain’s band off him quick… for he speaks the truth.
He’ll be in Barcelona next year, so … it won’t matter much.
But glad to see he’s come around. :skeleton:
What happened to CKs posts? I was gonna empathize w/him….
I went to the pub in San Francisco with the other Bay Area Gooners and, as per usual, it was all good but for the football….And I don’t have a lot to argue about with the regulars here. Woeful tactics, poor individual performances and more whining at the end. Like all our recent matches there was simply no ability to finish off a (very) wounded opponent…..
It’s getting tiresome in the extreme and I’m anticipating a thorough beating tomorrow in Northern North London….Oh, and by thorough beating I mean we’ll probably win the possession stat but nothing else and lose the (tight) match through a set piece or a poor call or maybe both….
The team is at a very, very low ebb. If we have any hope for tomorrow it is that it is the old enemy and we aren’t playing in our own stadium, with it’s newfangled, passionless amenities, including the dinosaur. The away support, esp. those who make it to the Lane, are the toughest of the tough, so maybe some of that will rub off on our boys. Certainly the belief that we are simply superior, I think, has worn thin….
Where is the battle, the initiative (leadership) and the moxy? Sorry, there isn’t any. Is Cesc embellishing a foul after losing the ball (again) what it’s come to? Nobody can create their own shot and the interplay to create for others is not happening. Maybe a big guy up front? Maybe give Jack a match off? I don’t know, and I don’t think the manager does either. I’m sorry but I feel that we are going to struggle against any team boasting a decent attack and/or playing in front of their home crowd. Frankly, I think three points from the next three matches may be asking too much of the current squad.
I hope I’m wrong, of course, and the team desperately needs an infusion of confidence. Maybe some good saves from Sneezy (who I fear will be tested) might be inspiring, or maybe a belted goal from Cesc or Arshavin or Theo or RVP (the only players who MAYBE can create their own shot or have the quickness to take advantage of a good pass) or another dance from Samir (whose name rhymes with “has he scored this year”?). I have no idea…..
It’s sad really and we’re down to sniffing for the faintest fumes of hope amidst the rot….
And ofcourse, Emmanuel “dumber than a zebra” Eboue will still be present at the club come the start of the next season!
This Kenny Dalglish “piss off” video is like therapy for the troubled non-AKB soul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPBmnrFWnUk
@ Josh:
Because he awarded a penalty to Liverpool, the ref must be in Man U’s payroll? That is completely ridiculous.
If that was so, then why give the Fabregas penalty then?? He could have simply called it a dive and given Fab the yellow or just waved play on and blow for the final whistle 30 seconds later!!
Why give the LATEST penalty in EPL history (at the time) to Fabregas if he was on Fergie’s payroll? Makes absolutely ZERO sense. And sounds like a desperate Wenger argument.
— Mariner had to find out what Eboue and Lucas were doing??? Really?? He needs to go into their heads and figure out what each of them was thinking??
Eboue ended up lying down fully flat on Lucas! The majority of all penalties given are LESS incriminating than that!
— “he was forced to extend the match until he found an excuse to deny arsenal all three points.”
Holy shit man ….. as of the 97:50 minute, Chesny had the BALL in his HANDS. And you are blaming the referee who had just given the team a last minute penalty??
Was the Wenger Girls panicking and giving the ball away TWICE in 20 seconds the refs fault? Was our failure to clear the loose ball the refs fault as well? What about the free-kick the Girls conceded while shrieking in panic? Also the refs fault hey?
We ALL know where the blame really lies. Let the excuses stop.
Personally, I have been as guilty as Wenger for supporting him for the past four years by making the same excuses for his lack of managerial performance over that period of time.
I have finally reached the stage where I can no longer make excuses for his increasingly myopic view of what is considered to be success.
Asking Wenger to change at this point is like asking a Leopard to lose his spots.
One of the most noticeable changes in Arsene over this period of time is his total behavioral change during and after games. He is becoming increasingly more animated, churlish, childish and combative. Compare that to the gracious Wenger who use to adorn the sidelines with grace, aplomb and magnanimosity.
Once, I would look forward to his witty interviews. Now, It’s difficult to listen to his sour grapes excuses for failure or the ever roaming target as to what is regarded success.
Apologize for my recent Wenger rant guys, but I’ve always been led to believe that if the foundation is bad you need to tear the building down and start anew. Unless he can emulate the Phoenix and rise from the ashes anew (this season) his period of greatnes has expired.
Let’s put him out to pasture before he has a heart attack .
@Caribkid,
That’s still the thing about AW that I have the hardest time understanding: his transformation. Not so much his myopic and thick-headed approach to an idealistic but clearly failed strategy/view towards football (though that is hard to fathom at times).
But to me what is even more difficult to understand than that itself is how someone who was once so successful, someone who won the title his first full season in England, won two doubles, had an unbeaten season, made it to the CL final… could end up like this. The transformation from old Arsene to new Arsene is even harder for me to fathom than new Arsene himself. How could that happen? Better yet, why would it happen? (i.e. why would anyone want that for themselves?)
The best answer I can think of (and this is pure speculation) is he thought it would work before trying it out (fair enough, can’t say I’d disagree), but once it started to take longer than expected, he began making excuses to bide time until things improved… but then when they didn’t improve the excuses kept piling up until they buried him and he had no way out even if he wanted one (whether or not he wants one or even realizes he needs one I’m not sure).
@ChicagoGooner,
You know this is something I can get in line with and I think about from time to time.
Look who likes to admit they made mistakes? If he does try to jettison or blow up some of his youth players – it is a tantamount to admitting that his over reliance on youth was wrong.
That would go against his very Gallic principles. Frankly, I don’t care but I get it.
It’s like being caught in an argument where you’ve been going on on something for a while and suddenly realize you were wrong, you dare not go back on what you’ve been arguing becuase you don’t want to be wrong or seen as foolish.
Am I making sense here?
I always get the feeling that Wenger does this because of the Cult of Personality that has been built around him and he doesn’t want to seem as if he has been wrong.
I don’t buy into the fable that Wenger didn’t get us to those victotries when he came on board. That it was somehow resultant of Graham’s back four.
Ask any of those holdovers and they will tell you to a man that Wenger changed their view on their playing and he was the reason why they achieved so much when he came on board.
You just don’t lose that.
@DaAdminGooner,
Yes you are making sense. I also agree that attributing the majority of Wenger’s early success to GG is wrong. Part of it is due to GG, yes- but that’s no different than any other situation when a coach wins something with players that were brought in and established by a previous manager. And even that would only have a significant influence on the ’98 title IMO. But 5 and 7 years after taking over? That’s not GG.
My thoughts on Wenger’s bust up – while I prefer he not be heard, I am not sure what he was supposed to do. Sit there and take what he thinks is a royal shaft nicely?
That’s BS.
If it were me I would’ve told the ref to fuck off too. While I sometimes think Wenger over reacts to things I do think he believes the team got a bogus call on Sunday so I can’t blame him for his initial reaction. What I can blame him for is being unsportsmanlike with Dalglish.
@DaAdminGooner, I can understand his reaction to the ref but his complain to Daglish was plain silly. If Wenger wanted to complain to another manager about a non-penalty, I rather he would have gone up to Fergie back in Oct 2004. Back then Wenger had his witty sound bites to the media and put Fergie in his place. Now, whatever Wenger says sound silly. He cannot even get his team to focus and be motivated for a game.
@DaAdminGooner,
How was it a royal shaft??
The rule states the the number put up for injury time is the MINIMUM … meaning the referee has discretion to add more minutes, depending on what happens in injury time or whatever. RvP’s goal celebrations and the wasted time from the freekick and the two pens took well over 2 minutes combined.
As for the penalty, it was a 50-50 …. Eboue had ABSOLUTELY NO reason to be that close to him in ANY way. The ball was leaving the box anyway. But instead he found himself LYING DOWN ON THE STRIKER in the box.
Sorry. Lucas looked for that penalty just as much as Fabregas looked for his.
It is not Lucas’ fault that Eboue has the brainpower of a zebra.
The Wenger Girls were NOT shafted. They got exactly what they deserved.
watched the second half this morning before work not knowing the final result. i’m surprised i didn’t get a ticket going in.
fred and i have had many debates over the years but wenger’s tactics have never been a topic we’ve argued. i’ve blasted wenger for years about his tactics. back when we used to talk about football (and not all this other stuff) i used to enjoy discussing tactics and how we matched up against the upcoming opponents. as recently as last week, i mentioned how we’ve been pulling rabbits out of hats to get our goals this season and not on a sound tactical approach. well, after not scoring from open play in over three games, it seems arsenal are all out of wabbits.
lucas was very clever to earn that pk yesterday. i actually smiled when it happened because i’ve set similar traps for players dozens of times. lucas saw eboue agressively chasing down a half-cleared ball and simply got in the way and waited for contact. eboue didn’t have time to change his momentum and lucas knew that. like i said, clever.
about marriner, he can’t see everything. he can see a coming together and his peripheal vision allows him to see who initiated the contact. however, a coming together doesnt’ justify a penalty. he’s got to be sure of what lucas and eboue were doing and he’s got to be sure it was a legitimate foul to award a penalty. mariner’s got to be on the man united payroll as, after arsenal scored a penalty, he was forced to extend the match until he found an excuse to deny arsenal all three points. he’d fit right in officiating in italy.
stag, you called wenger’s reaction to the pk, childish (in all caps). while i don’t condone wenger’s behavior, i certainly understand. dude was pissed. put yourself in wenger’s shoes. in extra, extra, extra, extra time, the manu ref decides to deny you two points in a game you need to win by awarding a very questionable penalty to liverpool. are you saying that you wouldnt’ have been equally pissed? i think even the most dedicated wenger hater understands the human condition better than that. arsenal got screwed.
@joshuad, Josh, its tiring. Week after week he pulls the same cry -baby actions. Is Dagliesh responsible for the refs bad decision?
Was Dagliesh supposed to say… NO PENALTY, we won’t take it?
You shake the man’s hand. A stop crying like freaking BITCH. It’s called sportsmanship. Arsene is a piss-poor sportsman when Arsenal don’t win.
I’ll also say the Arsenal penalty wasn’t exactly clear cut.
So please stop with the ref being a ManU fan and all that shit. It comes down to Arsenal not being able to win the match AGAIN, because they are playing like absolute RUBBISH.
And one man is much more responsible for that, than any one else… Mr.Sportsmanship himself.
@joshuad, Josh, its tiring. Week after week he pulls the same cry -baby actions. Is Dagliesh responsible for the refs bad decision?
Was Dagliesh supposed to say… NO PENALTY, we won’t take it?
You shake the man’s hand. And stop crying like freaking BITCH. It’s called sportsmanship. Arsene is a piss-poor sportsman when Arsenal don’t win.
I’ll also say the Arsenal penalty wasn’t exactly clear cut.
So please stop with the ref being a ManU fan and all that shit. It comes down to Arsenal not being able to win the match AGAIN, because they are playing like absolute RUBBISH.
And one man is much more responsible for that, than any one else… Mr.Sportsmanship himself.
Well at least Jamie Carragher is a fan of Arsenal:
“Liverpool legend Jamie Carragher is holding up fierce rivals Arsenal as an example of what can be achieved by trusting in youth and not spending heavily in the transfer market.
Gunners boss Arsene Wenger has been singled out for criticism as it looks as though his side will remain without a trophy since 2005, but the 33 year old feels the club deserve more respect for their business.
“You look at the money [Manchester] City have spent and Arsenal are still the main challengers to Manchester United,” the former England defender said.
“Chelsea won the Double last season, and again Arsenal are still the biggest challengers.
“The criticism Arsenal have been getting over the past few years for not winning anything is a bit harsh – you forget the money these other teams have spent compared to Arsenal.
“Arsenal are a magnificent club and the way they go about things, promoting young players, they are a fantastic example to everyone.” ”
As for Sunday, maybe it was karmic revenge for Reina’s blooper at the beginning of the season or maybe it was revenge for us knocking Liverpool off the title race two seasons ago at Anfield (The 4-4 draw basically put them 8 points off United – they never got it back).
While I wish Wenger would shut up – still don’t think he should go. Not yet at least. I want to see if he has heard the anger of this season loud enough. If at the end of the summer we haven’t done anything to jettison the crap we have on the team and improved it. Then I reserve the right to change my mind.
I want to see a suitable replacement to Pat Rice – either in the form of Paddy Vierra or Dennis Bergkamp. Though my gut tells me its Bould. Which isn’t great but isn’t awful.
If the new ownership is serious, I want them to set goals that Wenger has to achieve in order to not get booted on his french arse. And that has been part of the problem – none of the past board members has said Wenger – win or you are out. If Kroenke is the savior everyone says he is – at a minimum he must do that. I remain skeptical that he will.
@DaAdminGooner, who has said Kroenke is the savior in any way? its “change” and we need something to change DESPERATELY…
With Wenger in charge … I seriously doubt we will do anything different, as he thinks everything is just wonderful, and that we are both unlucky and there is a conspiracy against us…
the hope is that Kroenke shakes something up, the board is shaken up, and maybe it will ruffle Arsene’s feathers and he’ll fly away…
IF… IF… IF… he dares to even face the Supporters in the post-season meeting, he will get SKEWERED and be so pissed off that the fans dare question him, his head may explode!
I wish I were there for that.
@DaAdminGooner,
Tch. Carragher’s quotes are yet more sad testament to the serious danger presented by head injuries.
Get well soon, Jamie!
@DaAdminGooner,
Wenger’s #2 needs to be someone with tactical nous, and balls. Vieira and Bergkamp have proven nothing tactically. I would rather someone not involved with Wenger/Arsenal in the past.
The Board/CEO should present options to Wenger for his new #2, rather than the other way around, making sure that the candidates put forward satisfy the above criteria.
Unlikely though as this person could be seen as a snitch to the board undermining the playing and coaching staff.
But f*ck it, Wenger has used up all his credit in my eyes.
@rocka,
Bergkamp is doing some good work at Ajax. And he does have more experience now than Guardiola did when he took over at Barca. Personally, I think Bergy would make an excellent coach because of the unique way he played.
As for Vieira, I highly doubt he will ever make a decent coach. Players who relied on their physique or speed never make good coaches.
@DaAdminGooner,
Jamie Caragher is a buffoon of the highest order repeating platitudes he reads from the papers without thinking.
Repeating the nonsensical “Arsenal are still the biggest challengers” myth. We were NEVER in the title race.
The whole “race” is an illusion.
In a real race, you would have two or more teams going blow to blow, with both teams sweating it out until one prevails. Both will then end the race with respect for each other.
None of that characterizes the nonsense we claim to be involved in right now.
As for the young players, apart from Wilshere, what young players???
Carragher as vibe said, should treat his head injury.
@Fred,
AA23 – 30
RvP – 27
Walcott – 22
Diaby – 25
Fabregas – 23
Wilshere 19
Djourou – 24
Koscielny – 25
Clichy – 25
Eboue – 27
Szczesny – 21
Based on that lineup the average age of Arsenal is 24 – compared to say Barca who’s average age is 27.
I am not using age as an excuse. But the last time I check 24 is still young. I have two 24 year olds working for me. I barely trust them to call my clients on a day to day basis.
@DaAdminGooner,
And who on earth asked Wenger to have a young squad???? That was Wenger’s egotistical, dictator-style plan …. as air-brained as his plan of having Bendtner cross the ball for our lone striker RvP and for having a “roaming DM”.
The “we are young” excuse is complete, utter bullocks and has been discredited several times over. And it got old 3 years ago.
As I said, Caragher should treat his head injury and shut up in the mean time.
I am also very tired of Wenger sullying the Arsenal name with his collection of poor after game excuses and disgraceful behavior towards other managers.
@Caribkid, Agree 100%. His behavior after the Liverpool match was CHILDISH… he promotes fair play and sportsmanship, but ONLY if Arsenal win.
Watching Arsenal play on Sunday was like “Ground Hog Day” . Then, I realized, why am I even bothering to spend my money at the Pub to watch these games or buy buy merchandise, or support their ATV, etc.
For much less cost I can watch Barca and other good teams play the ultimate sport of football.
@Caribkid,
Now, now CK. We promised LDE two years ago that we wouldn’t be using the phrase Groundhog Day anymore. No matter how frequent the deja vu.
Does ‘same old shite’ work for everyone?
My normal pragmatism has turned to wholesale extremism. Wenger needs to go coach youth players in Africa or Asia and let a real coach take over the reins who can forget about passing 101 as the only form of football and teach the realistic skills required to win trophies.
Wenger has now become like every other dictator in history. Totally consumed with his own vision of success which has nothing to do with reality.
Time for change.
Nuff said.
@Caribkid, hear, hear.
Sneezy squawking about … we will still win the league this year!
great.
the players and manager need to just stop speaking.
talk when you win.
other than that, shut up and play.
and Hleb still trying to get back to Arsenal… practically begging Arsene to take him back… won’t resign for Brum, but wants to stay in England, and would love to play for Arsenal.
You know what, I’d take him over Rosicky any day of the week.
@stag133,
So the kid has belief in himself and his team. I don’t see anything wrong with that. At least someone does.
What are the odds Wenger will line up his bunch of losers in a 4-3-3 again at White Hart lane?
@Fred, No bookie’s gonna offer you odds on that. Be like printing money…
Anyone else notice that not ONCE did Walcott get past the 17 year old DEBUTANT that was marking him??
Wow, that must be embarrassing even for a brainless Walcott.
Special mentions:
1) Not once did Clichy get behind the fullbacks. Or find a forward with a cross. Zero, nada, nothing. And the full back he was up against was an 18 year old newbie!
2) What exactly does Nasri do in games??? Can somebody please break it down for me?
He beat their young RB ONLY twice throughout the game.
Nasri and RvP are vastly overhyped players
To coin a term I have used once in the past, Arsenal are “footballistically bankrupt”.
Barcelona may have midgets and are without a central striker. Correct? Yet, whenever their wing backs go down the line to cross there are at least 4 Barca players in the 18 yard box. Arsenal just might have one.
Once Arsene gets a formation in his craw he is unable to change regardless of the situation. Walcott was shite in the 1st half, yet subs were not made until the last 25 minutes.
One way to penetrate 2 banks of 4 defenders easily is the chipped cross to either post. Why are we not doing that? Instead we stand outside the box and pass the ball around and around like a fucking merry go round.
The total absence of basic tactics, football naivety and lack of the proverbial plan B is appalling. We are no longer even nice to watch. No cutting edge and a total lack of clinical finishers continue to exasperate me no end. It makes me even wonder if Arsene is actually capable of being a world class coach.
@Caribkid,
Exactly!
The WORST part is seeing RvP in CENTRAL midfield coming back to have a touch of the ball??
Why is our ONLY striker in central midfield when we already have THREE CMs fooling around there???
And its not like, one of those CMs would run up front to fill the vacated space … oh no …. nothing like that at all.
The tactical STUPIDITY is just incredible.
@Caribkid,
Remember guys, I used to rant even from last year, that our main problem was in offense, even though we were scoring goals back then, it just seemed all luck (random) to me.
Turns out you cant luck your way to the EPL (who knew?!)
And a shite Man U team will win their easiest EPL by default.
I just skimmed over ZonalMarking’s review of the game. Apparently RVP’s PK broke the record for the latest-ever goal in a Premier League game… and then Kuyt’s broke it again… exactly how much stoppage time was there supposed to be, going into it? (Not sure if they’re counting the Football League days in those records. Probably not though.)
It also said “Arsenal narrowly avoided a third consecutive home game without scoring.” But it was a PK, which means we’ve had three straight HOME games without scoring from open play.
@ChicagoGooner, CG.
Carragher was injured and down on the turf, then carried off on stretcher for at least 6 or 7 minutes… Eboue flopped around for a 1 minute or two, they said 20 minutes into the half that there would be an enourmous amount of stoppage time added.
@stag133, There was officially 8 minutes put up on the board
So……. predictions for this wednesday’s North London Derby? It wasn’t so long ago these matches were a foregone conclusion. Even long into our trophy drought, we still maintained our dominance over the Spuds. But nothing about this game bodes well:
-at WHL
-HUGE game for Spurs: they’re chasing 4th, and a win would put them level with City
-NOTHING game for us. No implications whatsoever. Zero. Unless you count pride. Oh, wait…. do our players count that? Do they have it?
-And the final reason: we stink. We’ve crashed ingloriously out of all 4 competitions in the past 7 weeks.
@ChicagoGooner, prediction for the Spurz match @ WHL…
I’ll quote Clubber Lang… “PAIN”.
Reports have it that Wenger actually started trading words with Dalglish after the whistle …. can anyone confirm if this is true?
If so, that is the LOWEST OF THE LOW. What on earth does the opposing manager have to do with anything???
Wenger is also now talking about how his players are “a bit physically jaded” ….. what the f%ck does that mean?? We have a LIGHT schedule and have not played for a week now, so why are they “physically jaded” …… just more bullshit from the French Twat.
@Fred, Yup.. Not too many. Looked to me like just a couple of comments about their penalty after which Dalglish said “piss off” and walked away
@OziKenyan,
In that case, Kenny Dalglish is my hero.
I accused Mazza earlier in the season of wanting Arsenal to lose, so Wenger would be forced out. I apologise for that Mazza, because I am starting to feel the same way.
My sheer disappointment after the Spurs game earlier in the season, has in recent games, been replaced with a kind of sado-masochistic desire to see us lose, so the problems can no longer go ignored.
The drama at the end was unfortunate in more ways than one. If it remained 0-0 all you would have heard is booing from the home support. If I was there, I would have joined in. Loudly.
Then maybe Stan will really understand how the fans are feeling.
My anger is not at the players, I still stand by the fact that the team is great, at least on paper. Wenger is simply unable to get the best out of them, tactically, and now motivationally.
I would like to see us cling on to 3rd place, but with a bit more disaster to see some real change.
@rocka,
To be honest, I wouldnt mind if we fell out of the top four all together – so it can REALLY hit home to Wenger and the clown board.
What exactly is the point of qualifying for Top Four every year when we never actually take steps to WIN the CL or the EPL.
@rocka,
No worries.
It’s a burden I bear for being a visionary ;)
I expect Arthur shall come along soon and echo similar sentiments.
Or not. :-D
Maybe we should give the Gunnersaurus a first team debut?
http://i54.tinypic.com/2e50588.jpg
@Mazza, Great idea. He might either scare the opponents or make then laugh and lose their concentration, so something could happen. Yes he does not have pace and might fall on his accord but I cannot see that as a negative given the current team. The current team plays in such a manner that opponents can take a few sips of their favourite drink in between each Arsenal pass and still come out on top.
Wenger is a shocking tactician. Forget about the drama at the end, Arsenal were dominating Liverpool, as we should have been given their injuries.
Finally he brings on Bendtner and Arshavin, about 20 mins too late, but then sticks to 4-2-3-1. We were crying out for 4-4-2. Bendtner on the wing. I mean, FFS.
If Fabregas plays like he did today, 4-2-3-1 becomes useless.
The dark side is strong, my transformation is almost complete.
The only way back for Wenger is to appoint is a no. 2 with tactical ability, and balls. Sh*t, I would take Rafa over Wenger right now.
@rocka,
LOL … I have been calling Wenger a tactical clown for over a year now, and funnily enough, nobody has actually challenged me on that yet. So there is an acceptance even in the AKB community that Wenger doesnt know squat when it comes to tactics.
@rocka,
I still wouldn’t take Rafa over Arsene. No way.
But why do you equate being anti-Wenger with the “dark side”? I assure you it’s not.
see above.
@ChicagoGooner,
I would take Rafa over Wenger for matchday in-game tactics alone. Outside of that Rafa is a horrid manager.
Rafa is actually a solid match day, tactician. He is a bit like Quirez, a solid number two but a woeful manager.
Rafa overachieved at Valencia solely because he had no control over any transfers or anything else other than match day selection.
Wow. Seriously impressive from Arsenal.
A bottle-job that will go down in the pantheons of legend. These guys out-do themselves every season in that regard.
If trophies were handed by out for being the thickest, naive set of players in the country, we would win the quadruple.
No wonder they’ve increased the ticket prices. This form of entertainment is certainly novel.
@Mazza,
You really do make me lol.
Eboue, too. But in a different way.
@vibe4arsenal,
Yep Eboue…….
His clown antics have never been just restricted to the changing room.
@Mazza,
Aha, think of this:
At 97:30, (with just 30 seconds remaining) Arsenal was still celebrating our goal. Surely nothing can happen right?
At 97.45, a Pool player cleverly tried to score from long range, but Chesny CAUGHT the ball. So basically as at 97.50, (with 10 seconds left) the ball was in Arsenal HANDS ……..
Just think of that, and let it really digest.
You are right, Arsenal really need to increase the prices. The entertainment factor is just too impressive.
I am sorry for all the fans at the stadium but I really, really, really enjoyed watching Wenger squirm. The twat.
@Fred,
Hopefully Stan took notice, although he looked to me as if he had spent the afternoon knocking back cognacs with Hill-Wood.
Being a Gooner is a Kafkaesque nightmare.
The Telegraph wrote: “Arsenal need a clear out in the summer, the selling of the likes of Manuel Almunia, Tomas Rosicky, Denilson and Nicklas Bendtner, yet they were not the problem on Sunday. They never even started. Arsenal had a talented enough team out, the A-listers like Van Persie, Fabregas, Samir Nasri and Wilshere, but they seemed tired, mentally and physically. The Carling Cup is the defeat that keeps repeating.”
@Macmac007,
Why is I’ve always said the injury excuse trotted out by the AKB’s is a load of tripe.
because the game ran long tivo stopped right when ‘pool were given the free kick on the edge of the box. i knew i should have a bad feeling about it… 2 minutes later soccernet confirmed my suspicisions.
just about sums up the season close but no cigar. i stand by my prediction in DAG’s survey. third.
because the game ran long tivo stopped right when ‘pool were given the free kick on the edge of the box. i knew i should have a bad feeling about it… 2 minutes later soccernet confirmed my suspicisions.
just about sums up the season close but no cigar. i stand by my prediction in DAG’s survey. third.
This team is not even interesting to watch…
Arsenal have had every chance to win the league this season, and have absolutely FAILED at every single hurdle.
Not even worth commenting much about today, because we’ve seen it all before for most of the season. No desire and drive, and they feck it up at the end again.
the season can’t get over fast enough.
DId not watch the match, and from reading the reports, I’m fucking glad. According to the report I read…
-we dominated possession (sounds about right)
-created few chances, and converted even fewer
-needed a last-minute PK to score
-Gave up a goal in supposedly the 101st minute (seriously?) off of either a legit mistake or stupid decision from Eboue (also sounds about right)
Don’t know how well the team played overall, but it sounds like they weren’t too good. Glad I didn’t waste my time.
Arsene bitched and moaned about how we couldn’t pressure Utd b/c the EPL kept scheduling us to play after them- well now we get to play a league game and they don’t (due to the cup semi) and…… we FAIL to put pressure on them. Why waste time whining about a supposed ‘injustice’ when you aren’t good enough to take care of your own business anyways?
PS:
RvP is a PLANK striker.
World class my ass.
To be fair though, he is not helped by the fact Wenger is not giving him ANY help whatsoever. He is left ALONE for 90 minutes every game.
No surprises as usual.
1) Wenger is an absolute tactical imbecile. An ape. Even till the end, we NEVER played 4-4-2. What the fuck is the point of bringing in a slow, oaf like Bendtner if you are going to shunt him out to the wings.
He brought on Bendtner and Arshavin for Wilshere and Walcott and EVERYONE would have thought, “great, now we are going to attack more in a 4-4-2” …. but instead, Bendy gets stuck on the right wing, Arshavin on the left and Nasri moves into midfield to CONTINUE the THREE man midfield.
All this despite the fact, Liverpool played 4-4-2 for the vast majority of the game.
All this despite the fact, we have had major problems scoring goals recently.
The substitutions even ended up making us MORE impotent upfront because Bendy is a garbage right winger. And with Arshavin anonymous and RvP TIRING FAST we never had a chance.
The tactical stupidity is just freaking incredible.
2) NOT once did we have a SHOT from the top of the box.
3) Chesny had FAR more work to do than Reina.
4) What is up with our players strolling around in our own half in the 88th minute WHEN we had the ball??? Shouldnt the buffoons be busting their lungs trying to get to behind the defense line??
EVERY single time we had the ball ALL our players other than RvP were BEHIND the ball. Its hard to tell if it is just our players being extremely lazy and brainless or if its just the end result of Wenger being a complete tactical clown.
At some point, the players need to be absolved of blame. A team with a complete fucktard as manager WILL NOT win anything.
It still baffles me incredibly that till the very end, we still had only ONE striker in the box at ANY time. Fucking incredible.
I detest Wenger from the bottom of my heart.
No US tour for Arsenal this year – the are off to the Far East. – Malaysia and China.
@DaAdminGooner,
What, no Austria?
@DaAdminGooner, yes. that is a SURE THING in terms of making $ERIOU$ MONEY in the off-$ea$on.
I can’t $ay I blame them …
AFC will make a fortune.
I’d say 2012 Summer in Colorado for sure.
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so as I sit here watching ManU v ManC in an FA Cup Semi… City are playing with a determined dogged passion, that ARSENAL completely lack… and especially when we were at Wembley against Birmingham in a Final, when the season started to fall apart…
and as I watch Yaya Toure have an excellent game, and do his best Patrick Vieira imitation in midfield… I am thinking, why in the world didn’t we get Yaya Toure? How many chances did we have? How many Summers was he “available”… “rumored” to be coming our way?
I’d have to say Wenger COMPLETELY missed the boat on that player, as he’d be in the center of the park, where we are desperate for a “physical presence”… on a regular basis.
I am glad City held on for the win… because I just don’t want to hear about a United Double or Treble … in a season when they aren’t close to some of the great United teams of the past.
@stag133,
Yes, thank god they did not pull it off. I don’t care how unfairCity’s ‘financial doping’ is, I still hate Utd the most. Like I posted on a previous thread on here, you have to wonder now how long it will be until City wins the title. It’s been just two seasons since they were bought out, and they’re in a Cup Final and are looking very, very likely to finish in the top 4. All that progress in only two years. Maybe not with this coach or with all these players, but I think they’ll win the league eventually (unfortunately).