In Arsene We Rust? or. . . 15 Reasons Why Arsene Needs To Change Now Or Resign And Go Coach Marseille
At YouAreMyArsenal.com I’ve tried to maintain that this site will allow all views to be heard and that regardless of what any side of an argument thinks – the other side has a right to be heard as well.
Two days ago I presented my rationale on why Wenger should stay. Today I am giving you a guest opinion on why Wenger should change or resign. This one coming from one of our long standing regulars – CARIBKID.
Read it. Love it. Hate it. Debate it. – DAG (Michael Price)
This is an extremely difficult article to write given my fondness for Arsene and what he represents to me as a human being rather than a Coach/Manager. A compassionate, caring man with firm beliefs who supports his “family” till the very end . I could go on and on about his humane concepts and desire to play beautiful football in a gentlemanly fashion (although somewhat sullied by his behavior this season).
Let’s take a look on his football philosophy and what he’s trying to achieve. He wants to recreate a glorious Ajax team lead by Johan Cruyff and coached by Rene Michels which consisted mainly of relatively small, very mobile and intelligent players with exceptional skills who could play multiple positions. This coined the term “Total Football” and was translated to the Dutch national team which became known as Le Orange and its style of play as “Clockwork Orange”.
Wikipedia describes “Total Football” as: “ A system where a player who moves out of his position is replaced by another from his team, thus allowing the team to retain their intended organizational structure. In this fluid system, no footballer is fixed in their intended outfield role; anyone can be successively an attacker, a midfielder and a defender.”
Enjoying immense success at Arsenal in his early years, 3 League, 4 FA and 4 CC cups although somewhat tainted by his inability to win the CL or back to back league titles, he was handed the keys to Arsenal in 2006 as they were about to move into a new stadium and he saw the perfect opportunity to create “Clockwork Red” using France as his base for incoming talent. David Deins ouster in 2007 provided the perfect forum as he was now the “Anointed One” with no one else to argue his football decisions as long as he kept Arsenal profitable so they could be financially self sustaining and rapidly pay down the stadium debt.
After winning the FA Cup in 2005 and being runner up in the 2006 CL, he slowly started to reshape the team in his own image. Campbell, Cole and then Henri all left and a young Spaniard, Cesc Fabregas now became the lynchpin upon which he would build his “Immortals”. Gallas and Toure were the perfect small, mobile CB’s required for the system. With other such mobile, attacking WB’s as Clichy and Eboue we were half way there. Now, let’s get rid of our 3 DM’s in Gilberto, Diarra and Flamini and install the genius and gifted Brazilian Denilson. Song was a backup CB as he didn’t have the stamina to play in the MF. Let’s get the maestro, Rosicky and add a young Henri in Walcott. We have a blossoming RvP and we can add a Togo flavor with Adeby”whore”. Top it off with a Russian playmaker in Arshavin and a French playmaker in Nasri and some more steel at the wing back position in the form of Sagna and the recipe was “clocking” good.
So far so GOOD? Right?
No, the recipe is flawed.
- His Jack Rabbits have no leadership on and off the pitch.
- Making light of the Captaincy and parading it in for Henri, Gallas and then Fabregas and letting every other player at some time or the other wear the band further reduced its importance.
- Playing a team of Midgets out of position in the toughest and roughest league in the world is just well, plain dumb. Common sense 101: Square pegs do not fit in round holes.
- Failure to obtain a world class GK.
- Horrible man management, which was never his forte, results in players under performing and eventually leading to their departure.
- Poor practice habits like not working on set pieces, defensive rotation, offensive rotation and GK 101.
- Poor tactical preparation by not reviewing film, not adjusting formations to suit opponents and predictable and unimaginative substitutions.
- Instead of allowing players to accept responsibility for their actions on the pitch Arsene continues to make excuses and deflect the blame. There is no player accountability as regardless of their performances they know they will be in the lineup.
- Instead of rewarding young players for their performance we install lavish long term contracts and reward mediocrity. Hence, our extremely high wage bill and inability to trade many players if we wished to do so.
- His inability to create a team which does not need opponents to play in a particular manner in order to show their flair and style. How do you beat or draw with Arsenal? Park the bus and counter attack! What adjustments have been made to alleviate that nagging problem.
- His inability to add clinical finishers is also another grave area of concern.
- His purchase of young players who can’t get work permits is also another grave area of concern. Spending Millions on the likes of Vela, Wellington, Galindo, Bothellho, Myachi and farming them out for 4 years while we pay salaries all fall under that banner, whereas Manu get’s Chicarito, Fabio, Rafael and Bebe, Spurs get’s Sandro, and the list goes on. Don’t we have any Contacts at the Home Office? Manu shows it can be done, why can’t we?
- His willingness to spend mega bucks on unproven talent and hoping it pays off down the road while being absurdly stubborn in spending similar funds on proven talent is dumbfounding. Theo Walcott being one example.
- His extremely aggressive, erratic and unsportsmanlike behavior on the touchlines this season is reflecting poorly on the club.
- His inability to perceive that we have squad weaknesses and deficiencies in the current state of the game is archaic and misplaced. Now that we have “mental strength” and are no longer babes in diapers, our squad is excellent as we are 2nd in the EPl, (oops, no longer), still contending for the title (oops, no longer), still finishing in CL contention for next year. Dementia anyone?
To summarize this flawed vision is simple. What worked for Ajax many years ago in a different League may not work in today’s world, especially in a radically different style of league. Players are bigger, faster and stronger. There is only one Cruyff. Maybe Messi is close. Barcelona is similar, but they have a host of established players who have specific roles. Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, Pique, Villa, Alvez and Valdez are all world class. Busquettes is getting there and Mascherano is not far behind. Messi, Pedro and Villa are clinical strikers. Their WB’s produce numerous assists and goals. Abidal, Adriano, Busquettes and Keita are extremely versatile and play varying positions without much of a drop off in quality.
Arsene’s vision of ‘Total football” is predicated not only on having talented players, but also players with extremely high football intelligence. His recruiting policies have yet to bear out the latter.
OK, time to bring this long winded diatribe to an end, go have a brew and decide whether I should still go to the PUB for the remaining games so I can find solace with other disappointed Gooners or should I bear it alone in front of my big screen Plasma.
Decisions, decisions, decisions.
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Apparently the 6.5% increase is across the board – not just high end tickets (as some suggested).
Merchandise and other tickets are also rumored to be going up as well.
All this at the club with the HIGHEST ticket prices (bar none!) in world football.
Loads of AKB clowns spewing utter bullocks as usual. I would blast you with facts as per my style … but then again, NONE of y’all will come back here after the Man U beat down … so what’s the point?
One also has to take into account that players, managers, boardmembers and their friends and families actually read blogs. They would naturally just open several accounts and spam their nonsense to you know … back themselves up …. literally.
I work for a really large corp. and I know we do “tip the scales” with friendly comments and reviews on blogs, etc. No way big business Arsenal doesnt do that too.
As for the “pure” AKBs out there who truly still “believe” … well at some point you’ll have to accept that the constant punches, pushing down stairs, etc are not signs of love.
The Wanker really doesn’t care for you.
@Fred,
“One also has to take into account that players, managers, boardmembers and their friends and families actually read blogs. They would naturally just open several accounts and spam their nonsense to you know … back themselves up …. literally.”
Yeah, something this is what I was alluding to, elsewhere on this thread. It does seem an awful neat coincidence that we would have so many new posters, with so many strong opinions, pop up at this particular time, in response to this particular article. If one believes in coincidences like that.
So, no, not worth responding to. We’ll see who still feels strongly over the next few months.
pls am using my phone to write. Wenger should take the blame, he nearly got it right but has now lost it all even himself. 1-Why on earth did u allow ur best players and strength of ur new system leave namely: Flamini, Edu, Toure, and lastly Gallas/Cambell. 2. What in God name did u sign this players for namely Sylvester, SQuillaci.3.WHY play out only one pattern even when great teams like Barca i mean Barca change their formation. Why did u not sign decent backup players for players like song, vermelen, vanpersie, walcott e.t.c…4. Sticking or believing in underated players: namely in their worst order:Bendtnar( a striker that cannot give 15 goal a season) DIaBY( a player who is not in his right sense or does not know his position and very lazy) Squillaci-old age and not made for EPL Denilson(injury prone, sluggish, lost his sense, has no space etc) and the WORSTEST of all sorry the one that hurts d fan and wenger himself MR ALuminium/almunia this guy is out of his mind, the worst goal keeper i have ever seen instead of progressing he is reprogressing i guess he has to check if there is a chip in his brain. 6.Mr Wenger himself he has lost his confindence/mojo changes five clothes in a match:suit to shirts, and tracksuit. Changing his position in match from the bench to the forth oficial corner and later to the stand instead of changin squad formation or players. Kicking of bottles or throwing of bottles instead of tellin his young lands to shoot the ball or train them to shoot ball into the net finaly why shouting to other coaches instead of shouting or using ur boots on ur players head as sir alex does.pls lets help arsenal my club my dna my team
“At last, the new AKB’s have emerged from their cocoon with all their vitriol.”
really? vitrol, personal attacks? really? really?!?!?
pot kettle black
@jroybower,
JRoy,
You’re focused on the idea that issues of tone have all been one way traffic on here and that’s simply not the case. Most of us have been called names for years by many of those who don’t have the heart to post here this time of year. Suggesting otherwise, reflects a bias of your own. Besides, what would CK’s being slagged by a bunch of noobs have to do with past history? Especially since he’s one of the least likely to have been disrespectful to anyone on here, despite having a strong opinion.
No victims here. Only volunteers.
@vibe4arsenal,
Why bother with the hypocrite?
@Fred,
I suppose I let myself be lulled into believing he was trying to be constructive. In retrospect…
@Fred, need i say more? respect is a two way street
@Fred, need i say more? respect is a two way street
@jroybower,
My article was not an attack on Wenger , and absolutely not with any vitriol. Please read my first two paragraphs.
It is merely an assessment of the flaws in his vision, which while worthy and commendable was not executed properly.
I daresay it would be rather difficult for anyone to refute my 15 points of weakness with any logical or stat based argument.
Yes, it’s criticism. But, when you get paid 6M + per year, just like any other manager or player, it comes with the territory.
@Caribkid, i have no issues with you article, and i think you have some valid points, that while perhaps not completely factual, offer up a reasonable analysis of what some of the issues are and where some criticism is justifiable. thank you for contributing to the conversation as a “guest” blogger.
my comment was based soley on some of the comments that were posted suggesting that the “AKB” crowd were going across the line, calling you names, personal attacks, and just being @ssholes, etc. i didn’t see anything written in this comment section that was any worse than is typical on this site (sadly) and i thought those comments suggesting otherwise were a case of “thou dost protest too much”.
i would much prefer semi-civilized conversation and debate. unfortunately the tone of many posters on this site prevent that…
THe forums are cleaned up and are there for anyone who wants to use them for more prolonged discussions.
Well put CK. You have talked about Arsenal’s defensive and tactical shortcomings for a few years now so it is a bit disappointing to see some of the charged personal comments towards you but then again, such comments show that despite all that has transpired this season, Wenger’s support is as strong as ever.
Like you, I have had a lot of respect for Wenger. Even with his antics and mistakes in recent years, I do not loathe him as much as I do certain other managers. Wenger strikes me as a tragic figure, left to overlook the ruins of a grand project he envisioned. It was a project that a lot of neutrals wanted to see succeed because it would have meant something in this day and age. If I am not mistaken, today Guardiola mentioned the number of players in the current Barca team who came from their academy. That was a direct shot at Madrid’s spending habit and that too coming from a team such as Barca who often spend to strengthen their squad. Ofcourse, that comment loses some power when one takes into consideration that the whole world is Barca’s academy :) If Barca’s academy has no boundaries, then Wenger’s academy has a very limited path to certain French locales, thereby making his goal even harder.
After Arsenal’s humiliating 3-0 defeat at home to Man Utd in Jan 2010, I finally uttered that Arsenal won’t win anything under Arsene. But I decided to play along with Wenger and figured I will wait until 2011 to offer any judgement. The time is here now and things have followed similar patters of failure. Can he finally change? I am afraid things are no longer a matter of changing players but many other variables which offer hurdles, such as you have pointed out.
Like Mazza said, the manner of defeat has also been crucial in the way I feel. If Arsenal had lost their games this season like they did in a 4-2 reverse at home to Charlton in the 2001/02 season, then I would have felt differently. In that 4-2 loss, Arsenal created numerous changes and it was incredible to find them 4-1 back but it never looked like they would lose. I was certain they would win and when they didn’t, the result was only 3 points lost. It had no lasting impact and I was certain the team would continue to win in the future.
With the current team, the only certain thing is a fragile state going from week to week. If this team wins big, then the players talk about a great future only to stumble shortly. If this team suffers a loss, then the players look like tired zombies unable to produce an inspired result to get their morale up.
The current situation with Arsenal brings to my mind P.B Shelley’s famous poem:
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Yes the words may be extreme because in reality, the stadium is a work of art but the decay is not in the physical construction but in the psyche of the players that has taken hold. And maybe in some fans, as well, myself included.
Total anti-football from RM today. They decided to park the bus for some inane reason I couldn’t understand. Go figure, first leg at home and Barca is without Abidal, Adriano, Iniesta and Maxwell, Mascherano is playing CB, Puyol at LB, and you park the bus. This would be the opportunity to turn the screws on Barca and hammer them into submission.
Nice touch was leaving the grass high and reducing the slick surface so Villa, Messi, etc would have a tough time with their normally slick dribbling.
Barcelona on the other hand seemed comfortable with it and decided to play for the away draw. two moments of brilliance by Affelai and Messi did enough to make Mourinho look somewhat less than the “Special One” today.
Rather boring game though.
@Caribkid, Plus Jose decided he did not need to start with any striker and benched all 3 of his today. I would have expected this from him in an away tie but not at home. Yet it seems that recently he enjoyed having Pepe play destructor in front of a back 4, so not surprizingly when Pepe was sent off did things change.
@Caribkid, I can see the thought process of Mourinho… I can see his tactics.
He knows and believes that Barcelona are a better team… so he was simply trying to “shorten the game”… and if RM could have come away with a 0-0 home match… he’d have been THRILLED with that outcome.
If its 0-0 going to Barcelona, he’d have played for 0-0 and PK’s.
and if by some chance they scored at Barca, then the away goal would mean Barca would need 2 goals or they’d be out.
Just saying… there is some logic.
@stag133
I understand his tactics, but this was the perfect chance to gamble with the injury state of affairs at Barcelona.
Iniesta, Abidal and Maxwell will be back for the return and Ramos is now out along with Pepe. Just thought this was the time to take a calculated risk and play an offensively aggressive game.
@Caribkid, Apparently he was doing a GG from 89… Plan to be at 0-0 at half time then bring on the firepower. He said the dismissal ended those plans… How much of it is true I do not know, but I am disgusted by both teams. Pedro and Alves esp.
I’m reading a review of today’s El Clasico, of which I only saw about 20 mins, but somehow got to see both goals. Both were scored by Messi and the 2nd was incredible. Anyways, the article says that it was Mourinho who first introduced the phrase “parking the bus” to the English game (and language), when he was complaining about Spurs’ anti-football in 2005. Does anyone know if this is true?
CaribKid,
Cogent and comprehensive, illustrative of sound, penetrating analysis and an insightful football intelligence. As has been detailed by other football thinkers, the list of wenger’s shortcoming and failures has begun to far outstip his successes.
Gone are the days of on the pitch excellence in mind, body and spirit, as best embodied by the invicibles, reduced today to a ‘football academy’, and a very expensive one at that, which by it’s very nature de-emphasizes on the pitch excellence and represents an abrupt and hostile departure from the clubs long standing traditions of excellence, professionalism and determination (in direct contravention to phw’s recent blatherings, we are more than financially sound, and one point that many bloggers have missed is that having re-set our goals and traditions to become a football academy we have made ourselves a less appealing destination for top players we would have liked to bring in).
How long will AFC continue down this path of youthful indulgence and lacklustre results? As long as we supporters allow it to which, according to some such as (Max(not)well above and others), may have a ways to go yet.
Very soon it will be 600 million pounds in wages spent on our current squad, and with nothing to show for it and with the future not looking bright enough to even retain the interests of our best players, it will have been 600 million pounds up in smoke, and counting.
@Paul,
Thanks Paul, appreciate your comments.
@Caribkid,
Caribkid,
Enjoyed you’re analysis, few take the time to lay it out as most prefer to exhibit an emotional view. My opinion of the club and how it is run has also evolved over the years – from brilliant, to questions, to what’s next, and finally to that really is enough. In my opinion, and as substantiated by many of your points, the primary catalyst in all this has been the club’s transition into ‘a place where youth are given a chance’, because so much else has been sacrificed to this end.
If I can break up the bitching for a moment –
Thomas Vermaelen will play in the Arsenal reserve match tomorrow vs Man Utd.
@ Mazza
“That’s why – and you can take this to the bank – we won’t win sh*t under Wenger again(sorry HTS, just ignore me).”
Not sure what you mean here…. I haven’t predicted any real winning under the current regime. I always hope for the best however…..(as even you have admitted in the past) Please explain…..
My biggest hope for the summer is to have a nice reception for the departing Pat Rice and a legitimate #2 (who might succeed AW) with real personality take his place. I’ve heard that Dennis Bergkamp is working hard on the flying thing….. Wenger IS the face of the team and we need a new one, not just a nice pair of specs and a nodding head (and a pasty pair of old-man legs). And sorry, the dinosaur is NOT enough. If a legitimate successor, who could speak a bit here and there and present an obvious counter-point to the manager could emerge, it would be a bigger (marketing) coup than any transfer….
The current maliaise is too deep. Winning a CC or FA cup is probably a necessary step for the club but it would hardly equate to the goals of the “project” and it would certainly not wipe away the tarnish that will forever stain the Wenger legacy–it will always be a tale of two halves….The winning half and the barren, “empire building” one….if we’re lucky…..
And, I’m sorry to say, it would take a turnaround of epic proportions to luck into a league or CL title (during Wenger’s tenure) that would kick start any (deep) feeling that something really has been created.
Things happen fast in football, however, so you never know. This season is over but for little shows that might portend for the future, so it’s all about next year. And I’m also sorry, the notion that Wenger won’t be at Arsenal next summer is purely academic…..
Enough said. Messi just scored (twice)….Hey, maybe we will have been within a Bendy bumble (or heinous RVP sending off….or within 6 points with a game in hand, blah, blah, blah….) of beating the eventual CL winner and the belief will be restored and all will turn out great…..
And while I’m at it, I might have a bridge you’d like to buy…..
@highburyterracesteve,
I know (or it appears that way) you take some comments here to heart, so I didn’t want to drain away your ‘noob-tard’ enthusiasm for the future with further proclaimations of doom.
No offence meant ;)
@Mazza,None taken….These days I guess I’m all “realist” and not so stinky with my optimism….In fact, as I’ve pointed out, I actually think many of the “doomers” get too worked up because they’re expectations are too high. Fred, in fact, prognosticated that everything would change if we won the Carling Cup. We failed, of course, but it hardly would’ve made us world beaters overnight. Belief grows slower than my pony-tail….
BTW, has Fred been banned or did he actually have to do some work today?…..
@highburyterracesteve,
Alot of AKB rhetoric in this thread. Fred is just digesting it all and waiting to strike at any moment……….
@Mazza,
Haha …. had trans-continental flights to deal with. Absolutely no point arguing with a bunch of folks who will not come on here after the Man U beat down – or ever after.
CARIBKID, very good points, quite well said too.
Forget the “fans” who cannot take any criticism of their beloved AW or AFC, their are dogmatists and there is no point in arguing with them because they just won’t reason.
Unfortunately I do not see how AW would change, nor how would he leave. In his dementia he cannot admit to MISTAKES, and because of the financial state of the club, he won’t be fired either.
Let’s not forget that he is an economist by profession, and that he did quite well as such.
Being a successful football manager, creating a team and style of play, are definitely not his strengths, but unless this shows in attendance to matches nothing will happen.
The coming match against ManU, at the Emirates, will show quite well if there is any pride left in the players and if they really like to play for this manager.
It will also show if the manager adjusts to the opposition, which would be a hopeful sign for change.
I’m not banking on either.
Good article CK. You’ve finally twisted my arm. Wenger out! ;)
Seriously though – iIluminating stuff. It seems the AKBers are not quite the harmless little lambs we’ve been led to believe they are. Quite acidic little tongues they have on them. Looking back though, it’s nothing new, and it’s just as much about them being proved right – along with Arsenal winning of course – than it is for us ‘doomer’s supposedly being more interested in being right. We shouldn’t lose sight of that, and that’s why myself, Vibe, Stag, Fred and others are well within our rights to say ” I told ya so!”.
Now, moving on, DAG mentoned something below that cuts right to the heart of the matter. He said:
“I’d also argue this – if he does fix it and we don’t win but at least go our roaring and not with a whimper ”
That’s the crux of it right there. And I would go along with him 100% there as well. If we had lost this league playing high tempo football ala Chelsea and Man City at the Emirates, then disappointment would be alot easier to digest. However, as always, it’s the manner of our collective conk that resonates more than anything. The fact that every season in the clutch, instead of approaching the task with verve and vigour, we play like we’ve just competed in some month long Iron Man competition in Death Valley. Dead behind the eyes, thousand yard stares, tortured souls….. going through the motions.
That’s why – and you can take this to the bank – we won’t win sh*t under Wenger again(sorry HTS, just ignore me). Just as appropriate now as when i said it three years ago. Instead of showing improvement in terms of dealing with pressure – we get more and more idiosyncratic! Next year we’ll probably see even more ground-breaking clangers as that trophyless-cross burdens us even more.
BTW DAG, just discovered the forums in this place. Full of spam at the moment though they do look nice (would kick off I think if we were to migrate our discussions from the latest thread to the proper forums).
@OziKenyan,
Noooooooooooooooooo …. no forums! Thats part of the reason we left AA!!!
@Fred,
Really? I didn’t even know AA went to a forum style.. Thought they just decided to kick everyone out for some irrational reasons
@OziKenyan,
They didnt but they wanted to force us out to the Big Soccer forums.
Personally I hate forums … for unknown reasons. I very much prefer blog style. And I think most of us AA oldies did too.
@OziKenyan,
Holy Crap!! The forums! I forgot all about those… wow, I’ll have to check those out, cause last I was there was when DAG first added them and they weren’t exactly lively.
Admittedly I let the forums go to pot because noone seemed to use them.
If people want to carry discussions longer than they appear on the page – I can clean up the spam and have the forums ready by this weekend
@DaAdminGooner, Maybeee during the off-season. Discussing specific linked players, for example, would be much more conducive on forums with seperate threads
Good write-up CK. Personally in the one-more-year-before-I-start-calling-for-his-head boat myself. And irregardless of what happens, even if he doesn’t change and eventually ends up with no more trophies, I won’t begrudge him his time here. He’s earned that…
Project youth though, does need a Newcastle style recovery – lots of luck plus lots of hard work
@Ozikenyan,
Thanks Ozi, and that’s why I said he needs to change now so we can see what those changes bring for next season under his guidance.
Not only do we need 2 or 3 established, at their peak players but it will be all for naught if he doesn’t bring in 2 assistant coaches to help him prepare the team for game time.
Take Arry Rednapp for example:
“Harry is assisted by Kevin Bond and first team coach Joe Jordan and has overseen bringing in former players Les Ferdinand and Tim Sherwood into the training fold.”
1. We have four international captains in our squad, and at games like Everton, Blackburn away and Stoke we have shown plenty of leadership. And why is Wenger responsible for this, the players need to lead.
2. Oi! Sometimes the captain doesn’t play, and sometimes the vice captain does neither. Henry left, that’s why he lost the captaincy and Gallas turned out to be a giant dickhead. Cesc can’t wear the armband when he’s on the bench.
3. If you look at our team, we have quite sturdy players. Being small doesn’t mean you’re bad at tackling, Jack is pretty small but he’s a great tackler. Song is strong, and so is Sagna. I rarely see this team get bullied anymore.
4. Hard to argue with that one.
5. You have nothing to justify these claims.
6. Set-pieces have obviously been a problem, but otherwise I would say we have performed tactically rather well. Both Fab and Szczesny are young and will make mistakes, while no coach in the world would save Almunia.
7. Again you have no evidence of any of his match preparations, and regarding the subs I can agree to an extent. But I can name a few matches where Wenger won the game thanks to his tactics and subs.
8. Actually not at all true, Wenger has dropped players before and continue to. Almunia has been dropped twice and Denilson is dropped at the moment. Arshavin was dropped in favour of Walcott and Squillaci for Djourou. So your claims are again unjustified.
9. Again, you have no evidence of how restained the club is economically due to the contract situations, but I agree that the “reward potenial”-philosophy Wenger has been emplying hasn’t always worked out.
10. That is not true, Arsenal have broken down plenty side who park the bus. Birmingham, Wolves are two examples and there are many more.
11. If Robin van Persie isn’t a clinical finisher I don’t know what is. But I would agree we need another one.
12. Young players outside the EU can’t work permits unless they play for their national team or are considered “special talent”. Hernandez was an established international. And Bébé wasn’t exactly a hit, was he? And Wenger can’t influence whether his players get work permits, he can only sign the ones he think will make it.
13. The one example I can really think of when Arsene spend big money on a youngster is Walcott, and he has scored 12 goals and assisted 11 in 34 games this season (while being injury hit), while being only 22 years old. In a few years I expect we’ll be looking at him in a completely different way.
14. I agree that sometimes he should stop behaving badly at the sidelines. But at least he’s not suspended like a certain other manager. And he always is very nice in interviews.
15. I agree that we need to strengthen our squad, but players like Cesc, Nasri, van Persie and Song also need to take the blame when playing badly. The points dropped against Newcastle, West brom, Sunderland and Blackbrun isn’t because the players can’t win it, but because they didn’t turn up. That is not Wengers fault.
So basically you’re wrong in just about every department.
@Vodoo,
Wenger himself came out and said more than once that the Captaincy is not important as we have so many Captains on the pitch.
I dare you to refute that.
We may have 4 National captains on the team, but only CZ and RVP demonstrates that on the pitch. Cesc, Sagna and Nasri are lead by example types, but not vocal enough.
Kinda interesting how all these new AKBers came, seemingly out of nowhere, at this particular time. Almost as if on cue. Be interesting to see how many of them are still here in few months.
I know that new posters are great for Mike and so it’s with respect towards him that I will keep this simple and tempered…
Disagree with CK all you want. But to suggest he doesn’t know football is (objectively) showing your own ignorance.
The rest of what’s been offered as to retort the main article is the same old tired arguments that we’ve refuted for years now. Not worth starting all over again. Especially with people who seem to confuse going in circles with actually getting somewhere.
Here’s the general question about Wenger –
Now I am all for him staying but how long of this is enough? For me it is 1 more year.
I argue he has stated that he sees the error of his ways and intends to fix it. If it doesn’t work or fails to address than he has to go because this current crop is not enough.
I’d also argue this – if he does fix it and we don’t win but at least go our roaring and not with a whimper – I;d say keep him. Just me though.
@DaAdminGooner,
“I argue he has stated that he sees the error of his ways and intends to fix it.”
I’d almost swear that if you went back in the archives, you find people said the same, exact thing at this time last year. Quite possibly, even the year before.
Obviously, none of us have any choice but to hope that it’s true. But as I know I said this time last year, I’ll believe it after it’s happened.
@DaAdminGooner,
Okay, will give him that! IF …. and this is a BIG IF … he fixes the problems. But, problem is – fixing the problems is very subjective isn’t it? If he got rid of the deadwood like Almunia, Denilson, Eboue, etc and went out and got himself the usual cheap French GK, CB’s and what not as replacements – would that be considered FIXING the problems? Say he sold Cesc, who would he have to bring in to qualify as having FIXED the loss?? Would Scott Parker do?? :-*
I really appreciate all the new commenters – it’s great to have you here however,l I am going to come down very hard on anyone that doesn’t treat each of the writers and other commenters with some amount of respect.
Just coming in and accusing someone of something because it differs with your point of you lowers the level of discourse and debate.
I challenge everyone – new commenters and old alike to bring something to conversation rather than blanket accusations.
I will not tolerate an utter lack of respect.
I don’t agree with my guest blogger’s main premise but I respect that he has the right to make the argument and we should all be willing to debate the piece on its merits. Pro or con.
Don’t come here and just hurl names or accusations.
You may return to your appropriate level of disharmony.
Thank you –
The Management – DAG (Michael Price)
Whoa….
Sorry but CK is a hero of mine so I will defend him and much of what he is saying as many of the regulars (soon enough) will also.
I also like Arsene Wenger and think that his contrarian vision or philosophy is very appealing. Unfortunately, given the high expectation of the supporters (based on his earlier results) and the fact that they are paying for what they get, it is reasonable to say that the vision has fallen well short of where it should be. In many respects I do think there has been some bad luck along the way, but the fact that Arsenal (with much of the team healthy) cannot get results week after week after week speaks volumes.
Arsenal have become a “soft touch” and all teams look forward to playing us. The lower teams have nothing to lose and the bigger ones have nothing to fear. This is a massive problem to turn around and it will not be easy. As many have noted, with each passing failure it only gets harder.
The problem is that the game is about failure. It’s about keeping your head up when the strikes get blocked or fail to go in. It’s about playing your game even if the other team gets a lucky goal (or two) and having the patience to know that you can wear them down and come back for the result. It’s about believing that there is enough collective talent and spirit to overcome bad refs and bad bounces. Sorry, but at the moment, the belief is gone….
I won’t get into CKs 15 points. I think there is an argument to be made that AWs vision isn’t completely flawed and that he’s done well with the resources at hand. It’s also reasonable to say that he’s maybe put too much faith in players who are too young and haven’t had enough positive on-pitch experiences to justify his (and their own) confidence that it will “just happen.” If anything, the 15 points argue that it has become too much about an all or nothing vision/philosophy and the smaller aspects (like footballing basics or practice or adjusting to an opponents strengths and weaknesses, i.e. tactics) have not been seen to.
This season both of our principal domestic competitors, Man United and Chelsea went through periods of poor results where they had to be questioning their inherent quality. If ever there was a moment to step up and fill this (minor) vacuum it was this season. There is (obscene) money at work at Manchester City, and renewed belief at Liverpool. Even our long-time rivals, Spurs, playing at our own game (open attacking football) have no fear of us. Unless we pull ourselves out of the mire (sooner than later) we will be competing more with the latter three teams than the former two.
What it takes is leadership and self-belief. We need a Captain who feels that Arsenal is where he will make his name. We need other commanding presences who feel likewise and not just because we’ve given them a chance as 2O year olds. We also need would be leaders to not be out for a year with injury. And we need our remaining players to be playing with true desire to win, rather than being happy to turn in a shift (or not) and collect a (huge) paycheck.
Turning this collective malaise around is a huge task. Contrary to his defiant statements, we can all see the that the manager is under enormous strain. Personally I’d love to see him (and the team) do it. I’ll be watching Sunday (and the other remaining matches) to see if there’s evidence that the team wants to fight for the manager. He’s been given, perhaps deservedly, perhaps not, an extraordinary length of rope….Can he use it to corral some spirit from his ranks or is it time to build a very high scaffold from which to hang himself….
I’m not going to go into this in massive detail even though i could… The only point, well, more of an observation really is that we seem to be the only club whose supporters are divided into to two EXTREME groups. Its almost like living in a political world where your only two choices are FAR LEFT and FAR RIGHT. Where have all the “a little from column A and a little from column B” people gone? I disagree with some things Wenger has done but i see the reasoning behind why he did them. I recognize that there are flaws in his thinking on subjects but i also realize that I’m not as smart as Wenger. Could any of us have created the “Invincibles”? No. Thats something not even SAF or Mourinho have done. Hes not perfect but without the benefit of hindsight, i dont think theres a managed out there that would have done a better job under the circumstances he had to work with… ie budget constraints and stadium move. Hes not perfect but i think it would be a MASSIVE mistake for us to stop believing in this man.
@Padraic Connell, Welcome. This is a very reasonable statement. I’ve always maintained that hyperbole is the essence of communication and in this age of keyboard warriors hiding in anonymity it’s far worse. It’s also worse because we’re all powerless and we have to take what the club gives us.
The final statement contains the word “believing.” Many of us are critical of the manager and the club. We don’t need to “believe” in either to give it our support. For me, this means hoping for the best and trying to see things from a rational perspective (like not having undue expectations if the team is clearly flawed). For others it’s more do or die, as in Arsene Knows Best or Arsene Must Go. Some beating the latter drum are even rooting for bad results hoping that it spurs the manager’s departure.
I still have a thin skin trying to learn more about the game while retaining (an irrational) love and hope for the team, but it’s getting thicker all the time. I’d like others here to respect me and the club I’ve thrown in with as I try to respect them. If everybody on the site could do it, it would be pretty unique and amazing, I think….
It doesn’t seem like it’s too much to ask, but it is….
At last, the new AKB’s have emerged from their cocoon with all their vitriol :)
3 points here in a general response to the AKB’s.
1) Calling me an idiot while hiding behind the Internet Cloud is easily done and obviously your opinion in this world of free speech. Now, calling me that to my face would make you a real man.
What’s amazing, is the extreme reaction of people when they disagree with an opinion rather than debate it objectively. The very basis for racism and discrimination which dominates our world today.
2) Saying I know nothing about football is extremely silly as you don’t even have the opinion of other “experts” who may or may not know me.
BTW, I have played at the highest level of football in the Caribbean which had no professional teams at the time and played on semi-pro teams in the US and for the UN.
I have also “successfully” coached and managed teams at the Junior High School level and age group traveling teams to U-17. I wonder how many of you with your scathing opinions have had that experience?
I have also actually been known to receive wages for writing sport articles for respected publications in the Caribbean and the US.
3) Lastly, like it or not I am an Arsenal Fan. Like you, I buy their merchandise, attend the local Arsenal pub, agonize with every defeat and rejoice at every loss, debate our status with friends from all over the globe, subscribe to Arsenal related media, pay my hard earned $$$ for TV stations so I can watch The Arsenal, and spent thousands of $$$ by flying to England to watch the Stoke game and the CC Final this year.
Like it or not, I will continue to be an Arsenal fan, continue to root for Arsenal, will never, ever boo any individual Arsenal player or my team as a whole.
Like it or not, I’m an avid Arsenal fan, believe in the team and also believe that no single individual is greater than the sum of Arsenal.
Like it or not, you are stuck with me as an Arsenal fan. Unfortunately, I am also stuck with with people of your ilk whose general IQ’s don’t appear to have progressed much from Neanderthal man.
Nuff said guys and enjoy your milk!
:X-P: :-? :clown: :curse: :curse: :shock:
@Caribkid, Good on you CK! Not sure where these guys have cropped up from all of a sudden, but don’t spend too much time defending yourself from personal attacks…
@OziKenyan
I actually found it quite amusing but a little surprised at the venom since we constantly have vitriolic discussions on this forum without disintegrating into name calling without rebuttals.
Incidentally, I could also have written a very earnest article on why Arsene should stay as long as we distribute some of the Arsenal “Keys” to some competent assistant coaches and Director Of Football Operations.
@Caribkid,
Interestingly, I think your last comment is the most likely source of any sort of change. Pat Rice is resigning at the end of the season and we can only hope that the new assistant can bring some George Graham discipline (and the real mental strength that goes with it) to the club.
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Typical of the “Le Grove” student of football you haven’t the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
All you know is what you see on matchday, read about in the press, and hear from people who, just like you, haven’t a clue what it takes to run/coach a club like Arsenal.
The overarching response to your 15 points is that unless you’re standing next to Wenger each step of the way you have no idea what he’s saying to players, how he’s man-managing them, what he asks of them on the training pitch, etcetera. So, what can you do? You see them play and work backwards from there. And without any real information to go on you make stuff up and pretend it’s fact. Just like the gutter press/media you listen to: the uninformed informing the uninformable.
What’s more is that you use abusive language like “Jack Rabbits” and “Midgets” and apply this to the whole team. (You’re not very exact, are you?)
Each of your 15 points can be rebutted by citing misinformation, speculation, inaccuracies, and contradictions.
For example, point 12, his purchase of players he can’t get work permits for until they meet certain criteria. Here you hold up Man U as the standard, but you do it with a bunch of ‘midgets’ you so clearly decry as unsuitable for the PL. Chicarito “Little pea” Hernandez (5’ 9’’), and the Fabio twins (5’ 8’’) for example. While the ultra-talented Bebe is Portuguese (EU), apparently cost £6-10M, can’t get into the Portugal senior side, and has made all of 7 appearances for the club in all competitions. The less said about Sandro, the better.
Anyway, would you really want any of these at Arsenal? Especially the nasty Fabios. And even more especially Bebe or Sandro.
As for ManU showing us how it can be done (Bebe aside since he’s Portuguese) Hernandez is a full international with 20+ caps, while the Fabios (signed when they were 16 without having ever played first team football) have none.
Which kind-of debunks your point 13. Paying out megabucks “on unproven talent”. Now, who would you rather have at Arsenal. The brats Raphael and Fabio, or Theo and Ramsey?
You probably have some valid points in here somewhere – ones that can be debated instead of dismissed – but they don’t number 15, and they don’t do a disservice to the club as evidenced by your diatribe.
While I’m as frustrated as you regarding some aspects of this season’s performances, I can guarantee you that there’s no-one more so than Wenger himself. For everyone else it’s a part time relationship, for him it’s 24/7 and the kind of responsibility someone like Mourinho could never cope with.
Complain, by all means. But please, not so wildly and not at the expense of Arsenal FC.
@ max i agree for the 1 years the guy has been there weve been top 4 consistently chelsea man city and of late liverpool are trying to buy their way tot eh top and the only place they will head is the bottom…Wenger needs to change his philospy thats it….play djorou with cahill play cesc with scott parker play bendtner with milito..as in mix and match this players and we shall dominate but ring for the sackin of le boss will only make things worse then get who mourinho?then wat..win the treble then he leaves?then wat get guus hiddink?loose loose then sack him again then….thats crap..Wengers the man for the job he just needs to wake up from his youth policy dream..now look fabregas is leaving…then we promote who?ramsey?then????the writer of this post is kuku(chicken) doesnt understand football…go support man city or worse stoke or sunderland mate!
@jimford, so, you can’t possibly support Arsenal FC, and think the manager has done a shit job in recent years?
really? that makes sense in your world, apparently.
Being faithful to the end will not resolve Arsenal`s problems.
There`s more to it than not winning trophies, the fans pride is hurt they want to boast `we are the best`. When they can do this again there`ll be no more team or manager bashing.
I suppose Arsene would be reading this article wondering ”where did it all go right’ ??
I genuinly wonder how people can contrive such drivel and still pretend to be fans, I leave it at the ‘reward quantiys of young unprovan talent and tie them up to long term contracts’. I dont suppose you consider the possability that the very best young talent not on long term contracts, would find there way into other clubs squads on the cheap,do you, or the ones you have invested wages in, that cannot make it at Arsenal but are on contracts have then some resale value.
Those that cannot see a long term policy only biggoted views, should post a disclaimer warning readers that the article is, ‘Tabloid trash’ and not up to the usual standard.
Wenger, is not perfect but the possible alternatives such as Benitez, O’Niel, Ranneiri or even Mourhino, are all short termism, managers playing in the moment using bought in established players,they do this because theu know that the chance of them sticking around longer than four or five years are slim,so the dont plan ahead, Wenger has planned ahead and so far not done too shabby in the presant.
He has done alot more to make this great club proud than to feel ashamed about.
@Philbet, why would the best young talent EVER want to leave Arsenal? Why would anyone want to leave Wenger?
So, what’s the reason behind over-paying unproven young players, and why don’t the likes of United or Chelsea do it to the degree Arsenal does?
Wenger did a great job for a number of years. Not debatable. He’s a nice man. But his time is over. He has LOST this TEAM, and the team is showing that on the pitch. Absolutely RUDDERLESS.
Wenger is not changing. And no, 1 or 2 signings won’t be what’s needed. :mail:
You have said absolutely nothing , you know nothing about football , keep quiet and move clubs go to where the above things you have mentioned are done, you are a disgrace and should not be an Arsenal supporter, Wenger has his shortcomings but you know nothing, do you think what he has achieved so far has been hard work or luck ? You are an idiot !
@Maxwell,
Well said mate!!!!! Im tired of these so called fans always bashing our team and manager
@Maxwell, hahahahahahaha.
hilarious Max.
how YOU can call someone else an idiot, is beyond me!
get your head out of Wenger’s ass. Please.
Hahahaha Idiocy comes in different forms …..
@Maxwell, hahahahahahaha.
hilarious Max.
how YOU can call someone else an idiot, is beyond me!
get your head out of Wenger’s ass. Please.