Match Preview: Arsenal v Standard de Liege Part II (UCL Matchday 5)
Group H Match Day 5
Nothing like crushing an opponent to make up for a gut wrenching loss. And nothing sets up nicely than a win over a team like Standard de Liege. The Belgian side come into the Emirates for their second Champion’s League Group Stage match against the Gunners. The last time these two met, Arsene Wenger’s boys went on their impressive 13 game streak without a loss that only ended against Sunderland this week. So maybe its apres peu that we try to right the ship against them again.
The last time these sides met in Belgium, Arsenal were coming off crushing defeats to City and United. Additionally, it was unclear whether Eduardo would be available pending a possibly suspension for his “dive” against Celtic and a virtually unknown ‘keeper, Vito Mannone began a decent run in place of Manuel Almunia who was out with a “chest infection.”
I’ve heard it mentioned that the Gunners should rest some talent this week in preparation for the Sunday match against Chelsea. And I’ve also heard the match against Standard being dismissed as “insignificant.” Well, I disagree for two reasons. First, a win today secures first place in the Group and “easier” draw for the knockout stage. Second there is no tonic for a loss than an emphatic win. I’ll throw in a third, Standard gaffer Laszlo Boloni has been doing his best Robbie Keane impression and yapping away and needs to be shown the “error of his ways” in the same way the Tottenham dud was.
We all remember the start of the last match was a little nightmarish as the Belgians scored 2 goals in the first 4 minutes only to sit back for the remaining 86 and watch Arsenal dismantle them for the 3-2 win. Now with a visit to the Emirates things are setting up nicely for the Gunners.
However, not all is well at the Emirates. Not so much from an ability stand point but from a very unhappy boss. Arsene Wenger is the epitomy of the manager who stands by his players, doesn’t criticize them in public and is usually unflabbable in his pre- and post-match pressers. Well, this week was exception in that he criticized his team for overlooking Sunderland and basically “choking” and then when asked about Theo Walcott’s form in order to make the WC team, Arsene abruptly stated in no uncertain terms, Theo’s focus had better be on Arsenal as they pay him and he should forget about the WC for now. Arsene clearly saying we need a club first mentality
This was not something Gunners fans are used to seeing and it is evident that the boss wants his team to deliver on their promise this year. He realizes that the normal November, December stumble is unacceptable this year and that the talent on the team exists to do good things. And from all looks of it he is going to do whatever he can, even break convention and get the best out of the squad.
The team obviously will be missing the services of Van Persie and Bendtner in the striker department, but Walcott, Gibbs, Wilshere, Vela, and Denilson all will be back in the squad in some way. Arsene is busy trying to lock up Vela to a new contract and was recently quoted as saying that the young mexican is why he did not feel compelled to keep Emmanuel Adebayor. At 20 years old the young striker has tremendous ability and has shown that every time he comes on to the field he is a game changer. Against Sunderland in the 19 minutes he was featured, he set up multiple opportunities and should have been the recipient a favored call as he was tackled in the box.
Kieran Gibbs is available but I expect Wenger to rest him ahead of next Sunday’s clash. That manse Armond Traore should get deputized again. Frankly though, Traore earned the spot having put in a rather impressive performance in his first real start against Sunderland. He showed pace and and presence and he combines it with size and strength which makes him quite an effective back and he should play today. Overall I think the squad make up could be a mix and match of key starters and players who need time. Either way, Arsenal should come out to capture all three points emphatically and not rely on just a draw.
How it should play out:
I doubt we will see a penalty in minute 2 to get the Belgians started off today. Arsenal have a 100% record at home and they are doing a good job of making the Emirates their fortress this season. They will use their fluid attack to pressure the Belgians who are on a woeful run having only won once in their last five matches. Standard do not have the talent to really pressure the Gunners on an equal footing and if they try and open up the game, the Gunners will make this a laugher. I look for the Gunners to “demolish the Belgians with Finesse”. Of course it won’t be a clean sheet because Manuel Almunia doesn’t know what that looks like.
Players to watch:
Arsenal: Carlos Vela. I think the mexican gets the call to start today and begins to show the boss and the fans what he is capable of.
Standard: Dieudonne Mbokani Bezua. With star player Milan Jovanovic out with his injued foot, the Congolese striker will be called on to test the Gunner’s defence.
Injuries:
Arsenal: Van Persie, Bendtner, Clichy, Djourou, Fabianski
Standard: DeFour, Collet, Sarr, Jovanvic, De Camargo
Possible Starting XI:
Arsenal: Almunia, Eboue, Gallas, Vermaelen, Traore, Song, Fabregas, Nasri, Vela, Eduardo, Walcott
Standard:Bolat, Marcos, Felipe, Victor Ramos, Mulemo, Dalmat , Witsel, Mangala, Dacourt, Cyriac , Mbokani
Final Score:
Arsenal: 4
Standard 1
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Arsene issues the clarion call
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-our-time-has-come-we-are-strong
I think Arshavin is long overdue a big performance. It will be his first start against Chelsea. If he starts, that is.
Call me a masochist, as I want Chelski to start their strongest line up.
For me, Chelski has struggled when they’ve played the better organized clubs: ManU, Pool, Villa – even Stoke & Hull. They have yet to play City and Everton.
Chelski are physically stronger, have the edge in team speed, and possess a real goalkeeper – but not infallible. For their style of play, Drogba and Anelka are the most dangerous attacking pair in Europe. (imo) I see Essien as the key to their midfield play, but believe Lampard, Ballack, and Deco can be neutralized.
Their back four are NOT invincible.
Arsenal:
Even in our loses and draws, all must agree that Arsenal attack always looked unstoppable. We have a collective group of players who can maintain possession under pressure and Chelski’s pressure Sunday will be no more effective than what we’ve faced this season.
My concern is Almunia and which Almunia will show up. I also believe that Gallas will start and as in all our big games, step up with a huge performance.
I do not care who Arsene starts, it will be our strongest line up (from those available). With this Arsenal squad, I believe we can beat anyone – ANYONE.
I do not believe that Chelski can neutralize our attack. They have not played anyone, with Arsenal flair and skill. Playing our usual style, we should be able to keep them on their heels and minimize their attacking chances. Drogba, always plays big against us, but we are fielding our strongest team in years, so Sunday will be another test for our players to show their growth and resolve.
As fans, we are in this relationship with Arsenal for the long haul. Chelski is only one stop in the long journey.
Personally, I don’t really care what the lineup they will put in, and which of their players are injuried or fit to play.
Key players injuried will only affect a side in a long run. Say, if they are going to miss Drogba for 3 months, then it would affect them no doubt. Just like the way van Persie’s absence would hurt us somehwere down the road.
But in a one off game, top table clash, even if they had 4 or 5 key players out injury, they would still put up a strong challenge. It’s the same with us, even if we had Fabregas, Arshavin all out, the team won’t necessary just fall apart. as those are usually the occasions when players tend to raise their level of play. All the recent form, team sheet, stats you can basically throw them out of window.
Personally I think it may even be our advantage if they indeed rush Lampard and Cole back. Cos as far as I’m concerned, their replacement may not necessary be worse than them. And when a player just come back from injury, he may not be 100% match fit.
So if there’s anything worth worrying, I’d be more worrying about our tendency to play Santa Claus.
Agree with you in general.
But I would be very worried (and I am sure you would be too) if Drogba is up against Silvestre/Senderos as opposed to Gallas.
Not sure if Lampard will be risked, but A Cole made his comeback in the Wolves game (so he is not being rushed back).
It gets worse.
Drogba and A Cole are back for Chelsea and Lampard could also make it.
On our side, Gallas is a big question mark. Anybody fancy Silvestre against Drogba? :(
I’m interested in your low expectations Fred, cause I feel quite optimistic about our chances. We have actually done fairly well in recent seasons head-to-head with the big challengers in the EPL. We more often flump against sides that we could and should dispatch – ala the Sunderlands and Stokes.
This side is talented, the issue is the application of their talent on a consistent basis. So when they have a big game and the eyes of the world are on them they often perform. I think it is a mixture of being so much a ‘foreign team’ and a young squad. Conversely, a low key game against an unglamorous team sometimes fails to raise their motivation. That is obviously very simplistic and other things like playing style, injuries and tiredness play a part yet in general terms I think it holds true.
The thing about Chelsea is that they are a professional and savy side. They know how to ride out the match and win the events. A coach recently said we won’t win because we ‘play football’ too much. It seemed a strange comment. Yet there is truth in what he is saying. Chelsea care less about ‘playing football’ and more about ‘winning the major events’ during a match. If necessary they will concede possession and just blank out the opposition. They do what they need to to win. That cuts across Arsene’s ethos, yet any side needs a level of pragmatism. Even Arsene’s winning sides knew how to get results.
“We have actually done fairly well in recent seasons head-to-head with the big challengers in the EPL.”
Not quite true.
Last season, we won against ManU and Chelsea in the first half of the season, but lost to Chelsea and ManU (twice in the CL) during the end stages. We probably would have lost to ManU away in the league, but they needed just a point to seal their title and duly did so.
The season before that is the same story. Win against Chelsea and draw against ManU (both at home) in the first half of the season. Losses to Chelsea, ManU and Liverpool (in CL) in the second half in what were crucial games.
The only thing that rides in our favor is our tremendous home record this season. But then again, one can argue that Spurs is the only top ten team to visit Emirates so far.
Fair enough, I did say ‘fairly well’ and ‘recent seasons’. ;-)
I think sharing wins or draws with our top rivals is pretty much what you have to expect, particularly given we don’t have a mature successful side.
What I do sense is that we can win any particular big game. And those CL games against ManU whilst truly an embarrassment were a bit of a rarity.
The stats kind of lend credence to Mazza’s assertion that we do well when there is no pressure. In the latter half of the season when games are crucial and there is a lot at stake, our results are not so good.
As for the Chelsea game, we would probably have to score 3 goals to win it. Because they are likely to score up to 2. 1 because their strikeforce is strong, the second because lets just call it the “Almunia Handicap”.
To be honest, I dont expect anything from this game. The main source of hope for me is that we are at home. So far we have been invincible at home.
Stag, you gotta admit, that squad Chelsea put out was VERY, VERY strong.
I have told you several times, dont tell us crap about what some OTHER team is “surely” going to do … you have NO idea. Thats how you were yapping all summer and up till today about how Man U will “definitely” spend all their Ronaldo money.
Chelsea started their first team AWAY even though they had already qualified.
We started HALF of our first team at HOME when we had not even qualified YET you have been complaining consistently. LOL.
I am a big fan of rotation, and when I say rotation, I mean one or at the very most two per game. The aim is to assimilate the squad players INTO the first team while resting one or two. There is no gain making wholesale changes, because the new players dont learn anything … and quite frankly they are likely to lose.
Wenger made a lot of changes, so I dont even see where the argument comes from.
And no, we cant play a Carlings cup team in the CL BEFORE we have qualified.
Just look at Man U, they played with their group, LOST at home and now they have to take their FIRST team players for the final group game which is AWAY from home or else they might come in second. LOOOOL !!!
I daresay they should have put in at least half of their first team AT HOME rather than taking them away.
Looking at ManU lose at home against the bottom side made me feel very proud of our youth system and players. Obviously, in terms of youth and depth, we are much better than them.
But still, in terms of winning titles, they seem to be ahead of us. I guess spending a lot of money helps. That is the conundrum Arsenal have to solve. Let us hope our youth mature fast enough to break their monopoly.
One of the things that makes me sick of modern day football is the media.
What they are good at is beating the dead horse.
Everyone knows Liverpool are struggling at the moment. So there you go, according to Soccernet, they have LEARNED that now Liverpool have dressing room problem…. From.. the uncle of the mother of the classmate of the son of the neighbour of the brother of an agent of one of Liverpool’s superstars.
The atmosphere is really bad,” he told ESPN Soccernet. “There are a lot of unhappy players around.”
Asked if those players were seeking to move away, he replied: “I am sure that there will be some players who would like to move on now, that’s for sure.”
Lovely.
Whilst I agree most sports turn on ‘events’ I think soccer is an extreme case
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Yes I agree. Other sports, the final result usually is decided by the PERFORMANCE.
But with football, you can completely dominated in a match, created load of chances and still failed to score. Your opponent probably may create only 2 chances in a match, and score one. Games like that happened all the time.
And the best preparation cannot guarantee victory neither.
Best example was EURO 92. Denmark failed to qualify, their players already went on holiday, lying on the beach or something. Then out of the blue, 10 days before the tournament started, they were called up to replace Yugoslavia.
A team which were not supposed to be there, with little to no preparation for the finals, and with their BEST player Michael Laudrup refused to play for his country, and with them found themselves in the same group as strong oppositions like England, France, and their arch rivals (and host of the tournament)Sweden…. somehow Denmark went all the way to win the tournament, beating another two strong oppositions defending European champs Holland (in semi) and World Cup champs Germany (in final).
I felt like I was watching an ep. of Twilight Zone during EURO 92.
That semis between Denmark and Holland was the first time I saw Dennis Bergkamp play.
That semi final I only remember one thing – how brilliant Peter Schmeichel was.
I think it kinda shows what a difference a great goalkeeper could make to a team.
Brian Laudrup aside, that Denmark side had little flair, basically made up by a group of workhorses.
It was virtually Peter Schmeichel’s brillance at the back that won Denmark the European Championship.
Whereas 6 years earlier, Denmark had had probably their greatest side of all time in WC 86. Full of flair, skills, and playing great attacking football.
Brian Clough was BBC co-commentators at that time, and I remember he pointed out what a shame that Danish side had such a group of outstanding outfielders, yet with a crappy goalkeeper (Rasmussen).
And he was right. After probably being the best team in group stage, blowing away South America champions Uruguay 6-1, they lost to Spain 1-5 in round of 16.
Having said that though, if you ask any Danish fan which Denmark side at the past they remember most, I bet 9 out of 10 would say the World Cup 86 side than the European Championship 92 winning side.
It’s the same that despite West Germany won the WC 74, but everybody is still talking about Holland (who lost in the final)’s Total Football.
Just saw the highlights of last season’s game. Arsenal had 10+ chances, scored only once. Chelsea had half as many, but scored 4. We need to be clinical on Sunday. Especially since we struggle to keep a clean sheet.
Surprisingly Ancelotti doesn’t seem to have read Stag’s prep notes for the CM game. ;-) The level of rotation is little different to Arsene’s. Obviously another Stag coaching seminar is due.
Whilst I agree most sports turn on ‘events’ I think soccer is an extreme case. Where else do so few ‘goals’ get scored per game per team? It’s stating the obvious, yet ‘winning’ these events more often is the key. Both converting chances and stopping them. This backs the value of the primary goal scorer(s) and goal keepers.
Following through with this line of thinking, Arsenal would be more effective with a clinical scorer who fitted their style and with a top drawer keeper. And it’s hard to argue isn’t it. We normally create enough chances, yet post-Henry we haven’t had a clinical finisher. Eduardo’s integration has been hampered as we know and perhaps this formation is not ideal for him. Perse is fragile. Goalkeeper? Well I was brough up with Seaman and Lukic. Seaman under GG was as close to perfection as you get. For whatever reason Arsene adopts a speculative approach to acquiring keepers. I can’t explain it. We just live with it and hope for basic competence.
>>For whatever reason Arsene adopts a speculative approach to acquiring keepers. I can’t explain it.
Yeah it is amazing isn’t. Arsene says that he won’t sign players unless they are world class but everyone can clearly see he has a goal keeper that isn’t close to that standard.
So I keep hoping that the team keeps scoring multiple goals to compensate for the 1-2 that will be let in. It didn’t have to be this way but it is and there is no changing that, not for another 3-4 years.
Difficult to see anyone winning the league by simply outscoring the opposition.
Hunntelaar’s record for AC Milan in Series A so far – 7 games played. 0 goal. 0 assist. And he’s a striker.
Considering that Bergkamp, Henry and Vieira were flops in Italy means that Huntelaar will be a success at Arsenal :) I am kidding. I have not seen him play this year for Milan so have no idea what the situation with him is.
Andez, just to respond to your comment about Brian Clough. yes his achievements were amazing, and that was struck home by the movie (The Damned United) which showed the ground conditions that existed at Derby. If any of those ground conditions and the club surroundings in the film were accurately shown, then Derby’s title win over Leeds was even more staggering.
It was also interesting to see about a time when it was possible for a team with no money (such as Derby) to win the English league title. Now, there is no chance a small team could ever achieve that feat. That small team success even seems remote in the F.A Cup, even though Pompey’s case was the exception.
Since Wimbledon won the F.A Cup in 1988, the list of F.A Cup winners has been restricted to basically the big 4 with Arsenal and Man Utd winning 5 times, Liverpool and Chelsea with 4. Everton, Spurs and Pompey etched out single titles.
stag133, which better player are you talking about replacing them with, Klaus Jan Huuntelaar or Felipe Melo? They’re both big names who cost ridiculous money this past summer. Does the big name or the big price tag make them “better” players? Or is it the fact that they are both short-listed for being the Serie A worst POTY?
It’s not about spending big money. You simply never know how someone will play when they come to England. In fairness, I like Melo but he’s a horrible DM that needs someone covering him. The idea of spending 20 million for him when we’ve got two young, talented, and improving players seemed foolish. As for Huuntelaar, he always had a “Kezman” look about his game. Like Kezman did at PSV, Huuntelaar scored a bunch of goals in Holland but I knew he would never make it in the Premier League. He’s simply not a special enough player to suggest he’s worth the 24 million quid gamble. I would prefer any of our strikers, to include Jay Simpson, Nacer Barazite, and even Rhys Murphy over paying 24 million for Huuntelaar.
wow, check out Chelsea’s starting lineup in their own version of meaningless match! :)
Guess they didn’t get the memo that Sunday was a big match and they should rest their starters.
Glad that a couple of people enjoyed my BS about rotating players above…In the end it will be interesting to see who AW puts out on Sunday. Or who he doesn’t. As Josh points out above, we’ve got some serious young talent in attack/MF coming through but I would still bet that at least one of that group (Song, Theo, Nasri, Vela, Ramsey, Denilson) will not even make the squad for Sunday–and that’s with Bendtner and Diaby out injured.
Thinking about that game a little more deeply, the match-ups in the wide part of the pitch could be quite interesting. If Cashley is really hurt (or maybe just his ego, in that Arsenal supporters don’t understand him) we might see Ivanovich and Zirkov in their two wingback positions and while both are pretty solid players (Ivanovich, defensively and at set-pieces, and Zirkov going forward) I think our team speed could scare the crap out of them, esp if AW puts Traore and Walcott in the squad. This would help (in my opinion) give us that little edge in the MF battle that SHOULD determine the result. As always, the little events of the game will probably be more important (This would be a fine match for Almunia to give us a reason or two to like him….) And I know I shouldn’t ask this, but who’s going to be the ref on Sunday?…..
Fun fact of the day
Theo Walcott has scored 2 times against Chelsea (in the FA and Carling Cups) and yet Arsenal have never beaten Chelsea when he plays, worse… Arsenal always lose when Theo Walcott plays against Chelsea.
Silvestre is in a similar position, he hasn’t played for a winning side against Chelsea since Nov. 2005 and Arsenal has lost every Chelsea game which Silvestre played.
From http://www.7amkickoff.com/2009/arsenal-2-0-standard-the-good-bad-and-ugly/
So that means Arsenal should start with Walcott and Silvestre to see if that streak will finally come to an end :) But if those two don’t start, it might kill their morale. Tough choice. Let me a flip a coin..
I didn’t see the game. It wasn’t playing in Afghanistan. And to think, they call us the infidels. Fuckers!
Anybody got a slingbox? Hook a brother up. My wife has screwed up my network at the house.
Gotta love what Arsenal have going. So many young guys coming through that are so good, it’s scary.
To think, so many people wanted the likes of Eboue, Denilson, Song, and Diaby gone this summer and instead wanted Melo and Huuntelaar. I posted a link earlier in the week but Melo and Huuntelaar are rated as two of the ten worst players in Italy right now. Just for the record, I’ve never rated either of those guys for the ridiculous proposed transfer fees.
Eboue is a good player, he just loses his nerve in the final third. Diaby is a good player, he just gets injured when he starts to find his best form. Denilson is a good player, he’s just not the bruiser many expect but the holding player that Arsenal have never had. Song is a good player. Who cares if he’s awkward when he’s that effective. Respect the difference of these young men. They’ll all be winning silverware soon.
No way in hell would Wenger bring in a back-up for Song in January. Denilson played the holding role all of last while Diaby and Ramsey are growing right before our eyes. What since would it make to buy another central player and expect him to slot in at DM right away? It’s almost impossible to do that for Arsenal. If Wenger was concerned about cover for Song in January, he’s not going to wait until January to buy that cover. That’s stupid. However, for some ungodly reason, we have this conversation every season. We’ve got cover for Song so don’t expect a player transfer.
yes, what would we do with bringing in a talented experienced player at this point?
we’re perfect as is, except for the other teams not actually letting us win all the matches!
Eboue Denilson and Diaby… aren’t exactly the type of players that we should be afraid of replacing… with better players…
unless of course, we want to finish 3rd or 4th!
:)
In all seriousness…How do we know who is a better player? Is it based on what the tabloids say a team has bid for another team’s player, or can we only assess value after a sale–i.e., injured C. Ronaldo IS an 80 million pound player?
It seems to me that we as fans, or our team with its scouts or somebody….actually has to watch players play (or practice) and then say “he’s a good player” (or not) or “he would complement our squad” (or not). Trading such opinions, based on our observations, seems like a good/interesting/fun way of wasting time (for internet junkies) or maybe even building a team (for managers and their scouting teams). Now I don’t play the football management video games, but I would assume they assign players values based on their reputations and then, after you buy them, their strength as players follows accordingly. That’s one way to go, as is following tabloid rumors and believing the numbers you hear. (Injured Ribery is worth 65 million pounds and will be playing for Chelsea in January, but our very own Cesc is worth 50….) To me it seems that the real world just doesn’t work this way and I’m very pleased to support a team that is taking a contrary approach. But that’s just me….
And Another Thing:
3rd or 4th….Wasn’t Man City supposed to kick our ass this year (as was Villa last year)?
Somehow we’re through to the CL knockout round, something that neither Villa nor City (nor Liverpool) can say. And yes we are third (a wise man once told me that “the table doesn’t lie”…) but I still carry a certain (naive) faith in the squad/management and will continue in my support.
Kiwi is spot on….the events of the game are the key, but the better teams somehow seem to win more of them….Playing in your home stadium also really seems to help.
Luckily the events (bounces) went our way yesterday, unlike on Saturday.
Still, however, I feel concern about our upcoming matches, in that we still seem to lack coherence once we get to the top of the box and our tendency to overpass in that part of the pitch seems at its peak right now. Our goals came from isolated “events,” rather than the flow of our play, but were exceptionally well taken nonetheless, perhaps indicating the gap in class between the two teams. Defensively we were exposed on several occasions and without the goal posts and a referee who seemed to have decided ahead that he would call no penalties, we might actually have lost the match.
Fortunately we now have two matches under our belt since the injuries/disruption of the international break and thank god we are working to create a cohesive squad and not attempting to rotate/save players for the “big” matches. I pray that Arsene will use these few days before the Chelsea match to work the team hard in practice so that our midfield fluency can translate into goals on Sunday. Without RVP as the linchpin in our new fluid, 4-3-3 (or whatever it is) his potential replacements (Vela, Eduardo and Walcott) need to find ways to play the position, so the team can move forward. Hopefully our defense can likewise continue to work on improving communication and understanding so we are not exposed at set pieces or in open play at that end of the pitch, either.
Unfortunately, practicing, like playing, exposes our players to injury and fatigue, as do things like fitness training. If we take “rotation policy” to its logical extreme it would suggest that the way to approach football management would be to buy the very best players you can afford and then never play them except in the “big games.” Of course, you also shouldn’t let them practice, nor train, because injuries can happen in these activities as well. In the meantime your “back-ups” should play all the less important games (and practice together, while maybe the best players observe from the sidelines, if they can be bothered). The inherent class of expensive players allows them to skip training and practice and guarantees victory in the big games, even if they appear a bit out of shape as they take the pitch. The key, of course, is to figure out which are the big games and which aren’t. Luckily, the modern manager has a computer and internet service and can peruse the blogs to figure this out…. ;-)
On a more serious note…Although he missed two glorious opportunities yesterday (off the post during the corner kick scramble and his shanked shot after the brilliant move in the box) I think Vela would be our best option in the most forward position, especially as Chelsea (unlike Standard Liege) will play a high line rather than packing the box with defenders. I also think starting Theo might be the best option (to keep that high line honest) while having Nasri, Eduardo and Rosicky available as subs. (Although I rather hate to leave so much talent on the bench.)
I also would with agree with Sesh above about Denilson in the lineup giving a better sense of security if Song (or TV5 or Gallas) want to rampage forward. And if his Brazilian ankles allow for an occasional goal from distance, that doesn’t hurt either….
Nah, what you should do is, play the same players every minute of every match… until they get injured or collapse. That wins titles!
;)
good one steve!
I remember reading at the past before a WC, a player broke his toe when trying to open a can of can food or something, and it dropped to his foot and break it. That particular player missed the World Cup as a result.
In cases like this i think even by hiring a bodyguard won’t be able to prevent the player hurting himself!
Not to mention we should start a new policy – when signing a new player, there must be a clause included in the contract to force them retire from their international career. As it seems we had more players injuried playing for their countries than playing for the club who pay their wage.
Then again, considered Bendtner’s latest car accident, players should not allowed to drive neither.
And we also need to learn from history, considered Man Utd and Torino had had their half or entire first team wiped out (in Torino’s case) in a plane clash, Arsenal should start to take the bus from now everywhere they play.
But then, I heard that the end of the world is coming on 2012 anyway. So why bother?!
I caught the match on the 9 pm rebroadcast on FSC.
Denilson in the midfield v. Diaby.
In the past, we might see Song make an ATTACKING run, but ONLY late in the match.
Yesterday, we saw him repeatedly exploit Liege’s midfield early on…….and its just my impression that Denilson’s discipline to cover his runs, allows Song this leeway.
Who is going to pick him up & leave their man? Every run he makes, we see the other team’s organization
BREAKDOWN.
What a terrific additional dimension to our attacking options!
For me, I’m seeing Arsenal’s new Vieira model.
yes arsession, that’s exactly how I think as well. Now with Denilson back, we may see Song charging forward more often.
I gotta say Eboue also looks very impressive this season.
If Eboue could actually score he would be even more impressive.
Though I agree I like his progress and dedication this year. Way to take negative and make a positive.
AdebuyWhore could learn a lesson from Eboue.
Eboue gives great effort. Still can’t shoot straight… and still DIVES.
(that means he’s a cheater)
;)
Soccer is a funny game, everything turns on a small number of ‘events’. Overwhelming pressure and possession counts for little. It is the team that wins more of the ‘events’ that takes the prize.
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Yes that’s so so true Kiwi.
Most sports are that way. It’s less about the whole game and moments in the game that turn a game over.
Looking at Song’s progress, it is hard to imagine that there was a time when Arsene simply refused to entertain the thought that he could be a DM, insisting always that he was a CB. Remember that? :)
Over the next three weeks, there is enough time for the team to rest and recover (if they are tired). 5 days between the Leige and Chelsea games. Between Chelsea and Stoke (6 days), there is the Carling Cup tie which won’t feature the first team. Between Stoke and Liverpool (8 days) is the final CL tie, which is meaningless (yes, that word!). :)
7 points (ideally 9) from the next three league games against Chelsea, Stoke and Liverpool is not an unrealistic expectation.
Again, off-topic. Has anyone else seen the film The Damned United regarding Brian Clough’s 44 day tenure at Leeds? It is worth a see and gives an idea about a manager’s struggles with his players, skirmishes with his club chairman, etc. One normally reads about these things in newspaper articles and books, but it was the first time I saw such things in a film where the focus was on the manager. Ofcourse, I could not help but compare and contrast everything with Arsenal in that film :)
Also, there was an interesting scene in the movie about resting key players which feels somewhat relevant here. Derby are playing their fierce rivals Leeds a few days before they travel to Turin for a mid-week European Cup tie. So the chairman goes to Clough an hour before the game against Leeds and asks Clough to rest some key players keeping the European tie with Juve in mind. Clough replies that he can’t think of taking it easy against their main league rivals and is annoyed that his chairman would ask him such a thing. The chairman replies that he is asking Clough to keep things in perspective and to properly “manage his resources”. The game against Leeds ends up being a nasty one and leaves Derby with a few key injuries. After Derby lose to Juventus, Clough blames both Leeds for injuring his players and his chairman for not giving him enough money to build a squad. In this scene, Clough says something about club directors and “prawn sandwiches”, a comment I think was probably inspired by Roy Keane’s words.
Anyway..a worthy film to see while waiting for the next Arsenal game.
Yes Sachin, I am interested to get a copy of the book.
Brian Clough was an interesting character. I don’t have the record book with me, but I doubt that in English football’s entire history, there was another manager achieved what he did – leading two local rival teams to the top flight title.
A legend of both Derby and Forest. That’s like saying someone to take both Spurs and Arsenal to win the league titles. Unthinkable.
And what he achieved with Forest I don’t think we will ever get to see it happening again – in a space of 4 or 5 years, taking a club from second division to win two European Cups back to back, sugar daddy-FREE.
Now that’s indeed quite special.
Glad that first place in the CL group is secured with a game to go. So I hope that means the final CL game should be a Carling Cup like squad because Arsenal are away to Anfield 4 days after their Greek outing. Regarding Arshavin, amazing that a few minutes after he clashed heads, he almost scored a goal. Just hope he is fit for the Chelsea game and that no more injuries show up before the sunday game.
off topic…Saw a bit of the Barca game and man these Brit commentators are f**ing jerks. Henry gets fouled, call isn’t given but Henry complains so as if on cue the commentators say something like that they are not questioning his honesty. Give me a break. Some of the things I have read about last week’s game makes me think that this was the first time in history since 1986 a player has handled the ball. Until now I guess the game was in a state of blissful honesty and Henry has just shattered that.
I still remember how Pires was given so much grief about his dive, the world apparently came crashing down when Eduardo dashed Celtic’s hopes and now Henry denied the “brave and honest” Irish. I shudder to think the day an Arsenal (or ex-Arsenal) player gets in the way of the England national team and does something that he shouldn’t. I suppose if someone scored a goal against England from an offside position, he might be called a cheat for stealing offside and have his character questioned for being offside. I guess if Arsenal or ex-Arsenal players need to use the hand or dive, they should do it against a team like Georgia :)
can’t possibly rest players in the next CL match… all matches are important, and we don’t want to lose momentum before the Liverpool match.
Sorry.
Don’t worry about Stag, he gets something in his head and flogs it. This rotaton theory will run all season long. Two Arsenal players run into each other. The problem? Lack of rotation.
What is interesting is to consider what would have happened if the early Standard Liege shot went in rather than hitting the post. I dare say the game would have taken on a very different hue. Soccer is a funny game, everything turns on a small number of ‘events’. Overwhelming pressure and possession counts for little. It is the team that wins more of the ‘events’ that takes the prize.
We have progressed confidently through to the next ‘cup’ phase. Mission accomplished. We can now rest key players in the remaining group tie which comes a few days before the away game against Liverpool. The Liverpool game may yet look very important too. Arsene played this the right way.
I was typing my comments almost the same time as you..hence the same comment for that final CL game. I want to see a Carling Cup squad for that final Champions league game.
NO.
Why would we play a Carling Cup squad and rest players for that match.
I just read:
EVERY MATCH IS IMPORTANT.
I just read:
MOMENTUM IS IMPORTANT.
If we lose that match, which is important, before the Liverpool match, then we’ll lose momentum.
Unless of course, we are changing our stories on match importance and momentum to suit our arguements?
Of course.
There you go.
Gibbs out 3 months… Gallas has a head AND ankle injury and is
questionable for Sunday against Chelsea… Arshavin needed a staple
to close the gash in his head.
How are our chances enhanced by playing our regulars again?
If we don’t have Gallas, are you excited by the prospect of
Senderos or Silvestre filling in at the back?
I hope you did enjoy that wonderful match today… we played so well.
I know Chelsea LOVED it… watching our injuries mount, and our
regulars playing additional unnecessary minutes.
You can spin it any way you like… piss poor move by Arsene.
And there isn’t a chance in hell he’d start Vela over Eduardo
in the biggest match of the year. Wenger doesn’t have the balls
to do that. He’ll go for experience. I expect to see Silvestre at LB if Gallas can go, and at CB if Gallas is out.
We needed a win tonight pur and simple nothing else would suffice. For a few reasons.
1. To secure first place in the group.
2. To build momentum going into Sunday. Why? Well, had we drawn or worse yet lost – this team would’ve started doubting itself.
And the tired crap from the amount games is just that CRAP. These guys play numerous games for club and country for a year round. They are used to it and are conditioned for it.
You know what? Injuries happen we have to deal with it. Arsene had his reasons for going with this squad. Who are you to question why? Do you understand the psyche and makeup of the club? Do you understand what the players may have told their manager about this match? Likely not. They in all likelihood wanted this match as much as he did.
Every freakin match is important – sorry Stag it is. And as Liege showed they weren’t going to lie down. If not for our goal posts we would’ve been down 1-Nil early.
Traore will likely get the nod against Chelsea. He is quiker and stronger then Silvestre and played solidly against a side that plays us tough every time.
I’m willing to bet Gallas plays on Sunday. His eagerness to play today showed that. His ankle knock didn’t seem to bother him when he played.
And who gives a flying f**** what Chelsea thought of our player playing. They have their own issues to worry about. Didier still has a cracked rib and Lampard is having placenta massaged on his thigh. So eff Chelsea if we take care of our business we’ll be fine.
You don’t like it – root for someone else.
I can say and think whatever I want, and support whomever I like.
You have your opinions, I have mine.
Momentum? Fuck Momentum. Healthy fresh legs are far more important than “momentum”.
First place in the group means SHIT! It means NOTHING.
If Barcelona get 2nd in their group, then we’ll have the chance of playing them… its the CL final 16. Are we avoiding teams in that competition?
If you don’t understand fatigue and the number of matches played having an effect on performance, you don’t understand sports. It’s not disputable.
Let me also add since you are so concerned about Chelsea. Their entire first team squad – with the exception of Lampard made the trip to Porto.
we’ll see who plays, that’s all that is important, not who travel…
though I am happy they flew to Porto.
Carlo Ancelotti on today’s game:
“I think tomorrow is important not only for first place, but we will play against a strong team. They did well in the last game at Stamford Bridge [a 1-0 win for the Blues]. We want to put our personality and quality on the pitch tomorrow night.
“We want to arrive at first place in the group and it is a very good test because Porto are a very good team.
Good managers play to win. Regardless. Unless you are Rafa who always plays for the away draw.
These 4 were RESTED on Saturday against Wolves:
Ivanovic, Deco, Ballack, Carvalho
RESTED. key word.
So they aren’t playing 3 matches in 8 days. They will likely play some part.
Drogba and Essien will REST.
Again, their KEY players will REST.
Chelsea will go forward and try to win with whomever they trot out there.
But they also have a bigger squad and more depth than we do, and REST KEY PLAYERS.
They’ll undoubtedly be more fresh than we will for Sunday.
But you believe fatigue in sports is not a factor.
Why is it that teams struggle when they play the 2nd game in two nights of a back-to-back in the NHL and NBA?
fatigue.
You cannot compare the back to back nights in Hockey to 2 games in 4 days in Footie.
I don’t see anyone getting their head splatted into the boards in Footie.
And the NBA fatigue, please those guys jog up and down the court for 48 minutes with stoppage.
Gibbs out for 3 months with a broken metatarsil. Wenger said he had a giant hole in his foot
A real shame I like Gibbs a lot. You gotta wonder about the ballet shoes the players wear these days.
If Eboue keeps that form up he’ll start pushing Sagna.
Walcott, at present, isn’t a particularly intelligent player in an Arsenal sense. His pace isn’t well used in this current side. We don’t have a striker who attacks the box so his blind crosses are wasted (that happened today and against Sunderland). If his pace doesn’t create an impact there isn’t much else. I laughed the way the commentator talked about Walcott coming on to frighten the opposition, whatever….
I liked the match too. And I think Arsene picked the right team. He rotated half the outfield.
You’re right I like Song – is it that obvious ;-)
I was really impressed with him in the first few games of the season and he hasn’t let that level slip. One of the pleasing aspects is that the role seems to fit him – he doesn’t have to try that hard if you know what I mean. You’re right, he still has that laconic style and slightly awkward gait about him yet that’s more a cosmetic thing now I feel. He really gets in the thick of things without lunging in like many young players do. The lunging thing tends to lead to fouls and cards. Players have to foul him badly to get the ball off him. I would love to see his stats over the last 2 games.
Ultimately I like solutions – and he looks 100% like one at DM.
There’s not a lot to pick between Vela and Eduardo. They both look relatively absent in the box. Eduardo has the experience yet Vela doesn’t have to deal with post-violent injury trauma. So I’d be happy to see Vela get another shot starting against Chelsea.
Whoever plays striker will likely by well marshalled. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see any goals coming from a non-striker. Like a Nasri, Gallas or Verme. Guys with bottle to execute in a big match.
As funny as it sounds I think Stoke is more of a challenge than Chelsea. This team will rise for Chelsea and playing at the Emirates will also give us a lift. So we have a good chance – and we need to take it. If we could beat Chelsea and follow that up by beating Stoke we would be on the horse again.
We just have to face the fact that this team will need to win the title to dispel the inner doubts. It’s like a rite of passage. They need a title to come of age.
Just the sort of match I wanted. Comfortable win, but keeping the powder dry for Sunday.
I would play Vela ahead of Eduardo for Sunday. I thought he was impressive tonight, apart from the shanked finish, and in general has more mobility and pace in behind than Eduardo. We need to keep the Chelsea back line honest and I think Carlos would do that.
I would play tonight’s line up against Chelsea. The balance seemed pretty good.
I agree. Vela seems to move around better than Eduardo. He didn’t score today, but we do need the main striker, if can’t hold the ball up, at least to display a better mobility to pull the defenders around.
i also agree with today’s lineup seems like a perfect fit.
Their collective passing was impressive. Maybe the entire midfield/attack seem like the same soft of players – technically gifted, intelligent, and with good passing ablility.
Denilson instead of Diaby will ensure the midfield don’t dwell on the ball (as Diaby tends to do) and keep the passing game going.
Though we only scored twice, but in this match the passing and the OFF THE BALL movement seemed to be one of the best games I have seen this season.
Now the only question is whether they can cope with Chelsea’s physical strength.
It’s a good game. Both team played high tempo passing game. End to end stuff. Enjoyed the match very much. And we won too. So I am happy. Always happy after a win. Now bring on Chelsea!
It was a fun game to watch. Much more entertaining than the first leg, certainly.
My mistake. I didn’t realize Chelsea had already qualified for the next stage.
Liverpool out of the CL.
Might be the best thing for them, if they are going to stand
any chance at making that 4th place spot.
that’s why I think Wenger’s job is so difficult. I imagine had him rested Gallas and we lost this match, making the final group match really MEANINGFUL, what the critics would be saying?
He’s in a lose-lose situation all the time.
Anyway, let’s see if Gallas will play against Chelsea.
And let’s see if Chelsea will rest any of their key players tomorrow.
“that’s why I think Wenger’s job is so difficult. I imagine had him rested Gallas and we lost this match, making the final group match really MEANINGFUL, what the critics would be saying?”
That he played the percentages, rested his big players for a big match, and trusted the vaunted youth with a LESS IMPORTANT (not meaningless) match.
You can’t seriously think that Chelsea will play its key players tomorrow.
They have already qualified for the final 16.
Imagine if Gallas was rested… and we lost?
I’d have thought it a smart move.
Senderos – Silvestre would have been just fine for me in the back.
You can have your thoughts… but I don’t know how you envision Standard Liege as a difficult opponent, I don’t know. We had about 70% possession.
What’s the point of having back-up players, if we don’t use them?
can’t understand you at all. when AW played Gallas, you wanted to REST him. Now Gallas was winded from first half, so AW took him off as precaution, now you complained again? you want Wenger to continue playing him?
make up your mind what u really want man.
Winded?? He appeared to have a head injury and a badly swollen eye. I think the original idea was that valuable players not be exposed to injury prior to a big match. That ship may have sailed now.
You think he took him off because he was winded?
I PRAY that was the case.
If so, fantastic.
That’s not the impression I get.
If he’s hurt, you can watch Senderos v. Drogba.
I’m traveling a long way for the Chelsea match, I was hoping to enjoy it!
Gallas off / Silvestre on.
You know we can always slot in Senderos for Gallas, if he can’t go
on Sunday… because Senderos OWNS Drogba. We all love watching that
match-up!!!
Theo on for Nasri.
One more substition, lets get Cesc or Arshavin off please.
Brilliant stuff Arsene… have to make sure Cesc and Arshavin play the full 90.
Rosicky on for Denilson.
Saving Denilson for Sunday.
Excellent.
The Gallas/Arshavin head clash has nothing to do with fatigue it could happen in any game with players of any fitness. And I’m with Andez, this isn’t game meaningless, we haven’t qualified. And if we had it still isn’t meaningless, this squad needs momentum and losing 2 on the trot would work against that.
Arsene introduced Vela, Arshavin, Eboue, Gibbs, Denilson into this game. That’s 5 outfield players, half the team. That’s plenty.
I loved seeing Gallas coming back on. We often complain about a lack of that ‘winning attitude’ and a lack of ‘bottle’. About players who stand up when needed. Coming on again even a tad groggy was attitude and bottle. Guys like Adams used to do that. Terry does that. Keane and the ManU British boys did/do that. It says to the rest of the team, dig deep.
Wonderfully taken goal by Nasri. Great strike by Denilson. Nasri’s strike is particularly pleasing. He has the ‘belief’ to score in big games, ala Chelsea. He just needs match sharpness.
Song again looks fantastic. What is interesting is to see the way his team mates are so comfortable passing to him and the way he is everywhere available to receive the ball. He is fitting this role like a glove. Nice to see Gibbs back. Nice too to see Eboue at RB where he belongs.
Wow, you really like Song don’t you? ;)
I still think he’s clumsy and immobile at times, and so it’s important he has someone nippy and solid next to him to sweep around him.
Denilson has done this reasonably well this evening.
From a macho perspective, Gallas coming back on was impressive. I’m not sure it was the smartest thing.
But certainly if he’s not available Sunday, it won’t be a question of heart.
yes, but we will have won against Standard Liege, and that’s important.
Happy to see Denilson getting a match. Wish Song was resting.
2-0 up by half time. Any more complain? anyone?
Health insurance premiums are ridiculous here.
Yes.
Because I don’t care if we win.
If we get another injury and increase the fatigue level, Chelsea might play us off the pitch.
There’s a complaint.
I know you care about beating a shit team from Belgium.
That was nasty. Arsha’s bleeding badly. Gallas looks out of it.
Kinda goes to Stagg’s point about lineup selection vis a vis Sunday.
So what?
What’s important is beating the hell out of a mediocre Belgian side, right?
We aren’t trying to win the league?!
Does anyone think our chances increase with an injury to Arshavin or Gallas?
I think that is what Vibe is impying,
Footy in HD, without ugly ugly banners and bugs everywhere. Truly the beautiful game. I wish they could all be shown this way.
Don’t know why u keep saying this game is “meaningless” Stag. If we have already qualified, then yes it’s meaningless. But we haven’t even qualified yet.
Let’s don’t take anything for granted.
I recall after our FA Cup 2005 win, I saw people saying the win was a “DISGRACE”. Because we didn’t win with style. I was thinking to myself back then – how arrogant the Gooners had become. To actually moan after a cup win? Wait until the days when we no longer win trophy by default, then tell me if a FA Cup win (despite playing poorly) is a DISGRACE.
Likewise, the fact that we have qualified for CL for 13 straight year is simply because of the brilliance of Arsene Wenger. There were plenty team spent a fortune and still not able to qualify for CL. But make no mistake, Arsenal do not have the God given right to qualify EVERY year.
So don’t take the competition for granted. And keep saying the group matches are MEANINGLESS. As I afraid one day when we no longer be able to qualify for CL every year under another manager, then we may end up praying to have the oppotunity to play the MEANINGLESS Group matches.
And in a way, it’s also being disrespectful to fans of other clubs. Fans of Villa, City, Everton the likes would love to see their teams playing in the CL for once. But here, you got the Gooner saying the group matches are MEANINGLESS. Now imagine had we being the Aston Villa, Everton, City fans, how would they see the Gooners?
Being disrespectful to other clubs? You’re reaching there. This is an Arsenal board. They’re probably not looking here for comfort.
in this case, everything we said is meaningless. cos i don’t think Wenger or any Arsenal players would read this board neither no matter how people praise or criticze them.
anyway, my point is don’t take anything for granted.
Have to agree there’s no reason for Gooners to take anything for granted these days. But from a strategic point of view, I’d be more inclined to take my chances today, rather than Sunday.
Kiwi’s correct, of course, that 5 outfield players were swapped today. But at who the 5 were that are in. We’ll need them all Sunday, no?
Andez.
As I said repeatedly. How can you possibly see this club not going thru in our group?
Seriously?
Do you think we suck?
The group is among the worst I have ever seen in the CL.
Arsenal Starting XI:
Almunia, Eboue, Vermaelen, Gallas, Gibbs, Song, Denilson, Fabregas, Arshavin, Vela, Nasri
Arsenal Subs:
Mannone, Sagna, Rosicky, Eduardo, Walcott, Silvestre, Traore
Guess you are shocked and dismayed Stag.
And no Chelsea has not clinched their CL berth yet. Like us they are 10 points in their group.
YES. Shocked and dismayed.
Definitely.
Absolute insanity.
And CHELSEA MOST DEFINITELY have QUALIFIED.
Athletic Madrid are in 3rd place in their group with 2 points.
If they get 3 and 3 in the two remaining games, that’d be 8.
They are IN.
They will be well rested.
Absolutely MEANINGLESS match.
We only need 1 point in the next two matches to progress.
REST the key players… kick the ball around… play for a 0-0 draw.
If we win. Nice.
If we lose. Who cares.
If you are crazy enough to think this game means anything in comparison to the Chelsea match on Sunday… what are you thinking?
Chelsea have already clinched progress in the CL.
Do you think they are going to play their best players? or perhaps rest them?
Most of our key players played in internationals… came back sluggish and tired vs. Sunderland.
3 days later we are playing against Standard Liege.
4 days later Chelsea.
You would have to be masochistic to want our best players in this
type of schedule. This is exactly how injuries occur, fatigue…
What are we trying to prove against this mediocre Belgian team? That we can beat them? We did already on our worst day.
I can’t understand the logic I read above for the life of me.
If Wenger trots out a line-up of our best players… I’d be SHOCKED and dismayed… and I’d predict we get an ass-kicking by Chelsea.
I want to see nothing of Cesc, Arshavin, Gallas, Vermaelen, Song…
What is the point of having young players, if not to play in a match EXACTLY like this one.
Interesting article comparing this current squad of Gunners with the double-winning side from 97/98:
http://bit.ly/5DYRg7
I think Song & Sagna will be rested and Denilson & Eboue will start.
For my fellow DTV customers, don’t forget it will be on 462 LIVE.
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/sports/soccer
Fox Soccer will carry the match on re-broadcast at 9PM EST.
Gameday chat will be open during the 2:45 EST kickoff and the 9PM EST re-broadcast
http://www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
DAG,
Thanks again for your insightful post.
Agree, we must dominate with a strong line up. Though, I see Arshavin and Rosicky starting instead of Vela and Theo. As you mention, we need momentum in preparation for Chelski.
Build a insurmountable lead by half time, then sub Song, Cesc, and Arshavin.