Okay, You Think You Could Do Better Than Arsene?
I'll be gone and then you'll be sorry.
I’ve been going back and forth on what my next piece would be. I was originally thinking about a critical assessment of the farce that is the FA’s new “home grown” rule. This is a rule in it’s essence is a lazy attempt to make the clubs under the FA’s purview pay for it’s inability to develop youth talent for the national team. The other option for a piece was a look at the season ahead andfairly determine where Arsenal could wind up in the table. That will still come in this interlull.
Where I wound up was a taking an early look at who the replacement’s for Arsene Wenger would be if Arsene were to leave the club. Let me first caveat this story is . . . I am not starting an article that adocates the removal of Arsene from his position. I am merely hypothesizing who would the candidate list be if as some people argue for – Arsene were to go.
I am also not going to take the tack that there is noone out there to replace Arsene. Within the next 3-4 years we are going to be faced with having to replacing the greatest manager in Arsenal history. One of the two following events will happen to precipitate that:
- Arsenal underperform and fail to secure silverware and a spot in the Champion’s league
- Arsene runs the length of his current contract extension and retires
Those are the only two ways I see Arsene going and as I said they are the likely scenarios we could face here. There will always be someone to replace “legends” at clubs. Rafa Benitez was a Liverpool legend, much beloved by their fans but he has been replaced, Whether Woy Hodgson is the wight won to weplace him is a different story, Rafa was replaced. Much to every Manc’s chagrin, Sir Alex will be replaced when and if he ever decides to step down. Heck even the Special One was replaced – three times. The point is there is always someone to replace a manager.
Now for those that would lambast those who think there isn’t anyone to replace Wenger – that statement comes from understanding what Arsene has done for this club on and off the pitch and his effect on it. Even with the current silveware drought Arsene is the most successful manager ever. It is hard to understand what it would be like at the club with him given his presence here. And while I know he will likely be replaced within the next few years, I just can’t imagine what the club will be like then. He is such an iconic figure to the club that he will cast a long shadow on whomever takes the leadership role from him.
So who replaces him? Well, let’s assume we are in 2014 Arsene at 65/66 years of age has fulfilled the terms of his contract and decides its time for him to move to another chair in the club and he vacates his managerial duties.
The Internationals:
Fabio Capello: Regardless of what is going with his group of English miscretants, Fabio’s club managerial success can’t be denied – Serie A winner 7 times (Milan, Roma, Juve), La Liga 2 times (Real Madrid), Suppercoppa Italia 3 times, Champion’s League 1 time, European Super Cup 1 time, Coppa Italia Primavera 1 time. No matter how you shake it this guy wins at the club level. He is a disciplinarian and has professed on a couple of occassions a respect for Arsenal’s system. Given that regardless of what he does in Euro 2012 he will be out of a job by the time Arsene retires – he would be a the first big name choice to replace Le’ Professeur.
Jose Mourinho: The man all Arsenal fans love to hate. Why? Because hwas such a thorn in our side and after the invincibles run if the EPL title didn’t have Sir Alex’s name on it – it had his. Regardless of what you think of the man, he simply doesn’t lose. Granted enduring a Jose managerial tenure means suffering through his ego and slow, boring, defencive style football. But hey he does win.
Guus Hiddink: After Chelsea floundered with the likes of Avram Grant and Phillipe Louis Scolari, they turned to Russian National Team coach Guus Hiddink, to give the team structure and carry it out of the doldroms they were going through. Hiddink did just that and while the club wasn’t completely reformed he did manage to guide to an FA Cup win. Since Guus is an international kind of guy he might actually like Arsenal with all of its international flavor.
Roberto Martinez: I actually refer to Martinez as Arsene junior. Not because he is transforming English football but because he is committed to an attacking, flowing style of football and seems to be one of the few managers that continually supports Arsene in many of his attacks on the FAs awful refereeing crop. While not a big type manager in the mold of the managers listed above he does show promise and has done a good job with trying to develop a system at Wigan despite its talent.
Quique Sanchez Flores: The current manager of Atletico Madrid is be marked as a rising star in the managerial ranks having immediately turned around the fortunes of the Spanish club. He is outstanding at working with talented youngsters having been a manager in Barcelona’s youth system. He’s won the Portugese league with Benfica and took Atletico Madrid to win the Europa Cup (v Fulham) and the UEFA Super Cup (v Inter).
Josep “Pep” Guardiola: Next to Jose he is arguably the best manager in football right now. His first season as manager of the Catalan side saw the squad win an unprecedented 6 trophies in one year. He won additional 3 trophies the year after that. He has transformed a club that was wallowing for a while. He took the talent pool and has gotten the best out of it. Like Fabio he has an affinity for Arsenal – as evidenced by his club’s unethical pursuit of Cesc Fabregas.
The English Candidates: (I use the term loosely)
Owen Coyle: The Scottish-Irish international who made Championship side Burnley roar and now leads Bolton. He believes that that the hard tackle ways of Sam Allardyce or Tony “I’m So Sensitive” Pulis, are the wrong ways to play football. While not exactly mimicing the flowing style of Arsenal, he is trying to develop an attack minded club that relies on passing and movement of the ball to attack his opponents.
David Moyes: I just wonder what he could with real talent. He keeps Everton competitive every year and while the talent is good it is not top class and will not get them over the hump of mid table, Europa Cup qualified.
Fat ‘Arry Redknapp: Okay, I’m just kidding – Stop laughing (or screaming) – I don’t want this fat arsed lout any where near my beloved club.
The Arsenal Candidates:
Pat Rice: Shouldn’t the man who has been playing second fiddle since 1996 be given a chance to put the club through it’s paces as its leader?
Neil Banfield: The reserves and youth system have been vastly successful under Neil and he knows a lot of our current crop of talent having worked and devleoped them as youngsters.
Whomever is the annoited successor of Arsene it will happen in the next 4 years – at some time. The club will look different regardless. Whether that ois bad or good is open to debate. I merely wanted to hyopthesize who what would the candidate pool look like. Personally, I like Arsene. He has done so much for this club and while I would never tell fans they can’t question his recent behavior – I do believe his past success and what he has done for the club warrant more than a modicum of respect. Yes, we should question his in ability to secure a new goal keeper. Yes, his over reliance on youth to fill his time while applausable, still should be questioned when we lack trophies.
We are victims of the success of his early years right up to the invincible season. We no longer accept failure and demand winning. Again whether that is fair or not is not the point of this piece – though I am sure it will come up in the subsequent discussion. I personall believe that clubs are cyclical and some clubs cycles take longer than others. Barcelona didn’t just become the super club it has – it took time. There were some pretty horrendous years at Barca right up until 2008. Some clubs are better at managing their cycles – Man U for instance is always in the hunt because it has managed even its lean years better than most – though I think that is going to be tested in the coming years.
Arsenal unfortunately are going through their own cycle and it hasn’t been fun. Many things have moved this cycle along – but Arsene is the driver. I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt as I believe we are in the start of an upswing (yes, I know some of you disagree with that). Again, I think honours are forthcoming and they will come under Arsene.
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Really good info! I have been seeking something like this for a time now. Appreciation!
Why on earth is Eboue still played as anything other than a deputy RB?
Vela, Rosicky and Wilshere should be given their run out … instead of wasting a fourth freaking season on the Eboue-upfront “experiment”.
Knowing Wanker, there is a great chance we’ll be blessed with the dreadful triumvirate: Almunia, Denilson, Eboue – starting tomorrow!
Not really looking forward to the All-French defense (the French are known worldwide for defending you know) against the Elbows of Bolton. If this was an away game, I would bet on Bolton stealing points … but for a home game, I think they would score just one. I assume we should be able to score more than one, but who knows.
Breaking news!!! History in the making!!!!
Arsenal will be starting an all French back four for the first time in EPL history.
:) :)
Considering that 2 of the 4 can’t even make a French team which has been hopelessly pathetic for the past 4 years is something to ponder. I still think we should have enough for Bolton at home however.
Eboue will probably make his debut this season in the absence of Theo, with either Rosicky or Vela filling in for RVP. Cesc will be the key. In the absence of Theo and RVP he needs to step up his game regardless of his Barca DNA as goals will be hard to come by.
Sagna – French International
Clichy – French International
Squillaci – French International
Koscielny – Will get called up to either Poland or France
I think our front line will be Arshavin, Chamakh and Vela.
My match preview will be out tonight.
Is Sicky injured again?
If not, he will surely start ahead of Vela.
Squillacci – part time french International :)
Eboue started at Pool.
Sacre bleu!
It is funny to read that Arsene thinks England should have an English boss.
Why? I thought passports didnt matter and you should only go for the “best” (or French) ??
Another of his erratic “words of wisdom”.
I am reading that Verma is injured and will miss the Bolton game.
In which case Squil will make his debut against Kevin Davies.
A truly hilarious 10 second interview with “Arry’ Rednapp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJBsI7RAuvk&feature=player_embedded
:) :)
http://le-grove.co.uk/2010/09/10/madrid-show-arsenal-how-to-spend-recklessly-and-make-it-work/
Mike, no big deal, you were a bit quick out of the blocks with Theo’s diagnosis. Like I say, no big deal. I gauge from your comments recently that you’re wanting to find reason for optimism – nothing wrong with that. Except….err….it might not happen! ;-)
With Theo, sadly he does appear to be joining the RvP/Rosicky troupe, and perhaps Diaby too. Some guys just can’t take a trick with injury. And the Arsenal medical team/manager seem to have become less reliable on injuries. They’ve lost credibility over recent seasons. Regularly understating injuries and then revising a players return again and again. It’s the crying wolf thing in-reverse.
As for the comments on not worrying about the attack being in tatters again, whatever. I mean seriously. We’re in game 4? And down to Chamakh and Arshavin. It’s criminal negligence. We’ll flog these two and then ‘be patient’ as the crocks return over the next 2-3 months. Of course we won’t be able to expect too much immediately because they have to ‘find their game’. And then there will be the compulsory relapse. A niggle or two that calls for more patience. Meanwhile back at the ranch, Chamakh and Arshavin will be either flogged or vilified. And the uber talented Robin van Persie will get a shiny new contract.
DAG, I would much rather have you pass on your contact’s inside info v. what the media spins.
If everyone will remember the fast start we had last season………none of the goal production came from our forwards; mostly our midfield and CB’s.
If I had to chose between the two scenarios, injury riddled defense or forwards, I’ll take a healthy back 4.
That’s unfair. Even though it took van Persie a while to get on the score sheet, he was pivotal in our fast start. Our attack went through his hold up play and bringing our midfield into the attack.
In the first eleven games, RvP was directly responsible for atleast fourteen goals (seven goals and seven assists). That’s makes him significant to our fast start. What would be more fair is to say is after he got chopped down, our fast start came to an end.
With that, I would prefer a healthy back four as well. But we shouldn’t forget that Lehmann made Champions League history with an injury riddled back four. We had a ridiculous 13 different LB’s, 5 RB’s, and Sol Campbell had a melt down, leaving Kolo to partner Cygan and Senderos. Lehmann is a bad ass for that record.
Agree, RvP was pivotable w/o scoring. Not sure your time frame for a comparison is equally fair. Bendtner was injured 2 weeks b4 RvP – leaving only Arshavin and Eduardo to play lead striker.
At the moment, I can see Chamakh just as effective to hold up the play and allow midfielders to exploit space.
My point is that we are not at a crisis.
We don’t have a Lehmann quality keeper, so my point abt the strong back four……. CL history – Lehmann, keeper to be red carded in a final ‘the earliest’?
Arsenal.com –
Theo out 4 to 6 weeks.
Well, I think I will just get back to doing what I do best, offer opinion and provide match reviews. That makes two times I have trusted what I have been. I think if you look in the dictionary under the word sucker – you will see me.
Sucker, hopeless optimist….What’s the difference?…. ;-)
Theo’s early season form had been an unexpected bonus…Now we’re back to normality (with him and RVP). Luckily we’ve filled the holes (put fingers in the dikes?) with the likes of Chamakh, Rosicky and Wilshere. Plus we’ve still got Denilson (who can’t truly be as bad as we all remember him) and AhhBooEe, who, if he’s not exactly our talisman then he’s certainly our good luck charm or maybe our Mascot. (He at least seems to enjoy the Dinosaur more than the others….) And maybe Cescy’ll even show up without too much jet-lag after his long flight back from Argentina (with only a short stopover–to recharge his DNA?–in Barcelona….)
New slogan? “Arsenal: every match an adventure….”
(I’m a sucker too and thought, fosho, that Schwarzer was coming and that Theo would miss just one or two matches….And I even had RVP in my fantasy squad….)
Directly from Matt Law of the Express moments ago: Arsenal to confirm theo injury this arvo – his people know nothing of him being out six weeks
Good work DAG, as usual…
Do all the teams do Friday press conferences/injury updates and is there any single website that is fairly accurate about players’ fitness status? It appears my fantasy team took quite a beating in these internationals and I might have to be dipping into the transfer market….
Steve, back when I played fantasy, I used to read the previews on Soccernet. Also, there is a BPL preview show that i believe they show in the US where they, obviously, preview all the BPL games for the weekend. They typically discuss players who are injured or suspended for the upcoming game. good luck.
The only place I’ve heard that Theo will be out for two weeks is from when Capello said Theo claimed he’d be back in less than two weeks. Personally, I’m not putting a lot of value in an athlete’s proclamation when he’s just been stretchered off the pitch and is yet to be evaluated by a physician.
Ankle sprains can feel bad initially and, three days later, feel great. Regardless, when he and Robin come back, they should be forced to wear an ankle brace until springtime.
Josh, thanks for the TV advice above….
Ankle braces are actually really good for larger ankle sprains….I used one with a flattended steel rod insert that would absolutely prevent all roll-overs. After a few weeks I used it without the insert (and laced more loosely) and after 6-8 months my ankle was back to full strength.
Unforuntately, I think pros use tape instead (which I also used) because it gives the physios something to do (and an excuse for the boys to shave their legs…) The problem is that tape is a lot less strong than steel…I’m SURE that RVP was tightly taped when he reinjured his ankle. Also, the players need a preventative device that allows some movement so the ankle can get stronger over time. Instead I fear that they just resign themselves to always taping the ankles and try to get used to it for the rest of their careers. I wasn’t a footballer, but I imagine taping must affect how you kick the ball.
FUCK!! I thought you said it was confirmed DAG…
WALCOTT RULED OUT FOR SIX WEEKS
09/09/10 07:16
In what has become a familiar routine, hopes that Theo Walcott would make a speedy recovery from injury have been dashed after the Arsenal and England forward was reportedly ruled out for six weeks.
In the same week that the Gunners belatedly confirmed that Robin van Persie’s ankle injury was, as per last year, far worse than first thought, The Times has reported that Walcott will be sidelined for six weeks. So much for Fabio Capello’s declaration immediately after England’s win in Switzerland that the injury was not serious and the player hoped to return in less than two weeks.
Scans have revealed ankle ligament damage, meaning that Walcott, along with Van Persie, will most probably miss five Premier League games, including next month’s trip to Chelsea, and Arsenal’s first three Champions League fixtures.
The newspaper calculates that the setback is the ‘eighteenth significant injury he has suffered since signing for Arsenal four years ago’.
With Nicklas Bendtner also on the treatment table, Arsenal now enter the first busy period of the campaign with just Marouane Chamakh as their only fit striker.
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8689_6365873,00.html
1. I checked with 2 Arsenal beat writers and 1 person I have a connection with who is linked with the club – they all said two weeks.
2. The Times article football365 and Goal.com is an article based on theories by physicians who saw the video on the injury and made a blanket diagnosis without seeing the patient live. The Times is basing its article off of that and those two sites and the Daily Fail – are picking it up and playing it safe by saying he COULD be out. I just love loose journalism.
3. The club and no other organization is carrying ANYTHING about the injury 6 weeks.
But that being said – in reality we won’t know the truth until the club says something official which will likely be during tomorrow’s weekly presser. (ED NOTE: I’ve just been reminded that sometimes AW will give an injury update to the Arsenal.com on Thursdays before the match – so the club may have something today ahead of tomorrow’s presser)
And in fairness I should’ve probably saif that it is confirmed based on what I was able to dig up but until the club comes out with something official – then it should its all speculation.
If he is out more than 2 weeks, I will return to just giving opinion and match previews. Probably safer that way.
RVP is a bit of an idiot and his own worst enemy when it comes to injuries. In the Blackburn match he left his foot out dangling in the air to do a block tackle, which was a bit stupid really as that has risk written all over it. Alot of his injuries could have been averted if he just held back a bit and used his brain.
Could not agree more. I would be happy to see him to do a Beckham in WC2006 and jump out of a few tackles every now and again.
I think Vieira and Henry will retire well with the sun setting on highly fulfilling careers. They are both legends at Arsenal and rightly so. Yet after Arsenal they went on to have other hugely interesting and successful professional experiences. It’s natural that when you’re at a club with a high number of marquee players and you’re in your later years – you’re standing and influence will be lesser than when you’re ‘the man’ in your prime at Arsenal. No shame in that. That’s just how it is.
Cole’s case is just plain sad even after the passage of time. He was and is a brilliant player. So sad that it turned sour. Yet, truth be told, would he rather have spent his time under Wenger’s experimental period of the last 5 years? Or is playing in a highly competitive Chelsea team more enjoyable? I think it’s a no-brainer. If you were him would you rather play in a struggling team that wins nothing or compete and win trophies annually?
I saw Reina’s gaffe – hilarious and unbelievable.
Mike I read Arseblog’s piece, he’s always entertaining, yet he’s saying nothing more than what I and others have said for 2 seasons.
1. Did anyone see Reina’s gaffe in the Spain-Argentina friendly yesterday? It was without question far worse than the one he had against Arsenal, and Spain ended up losing 4-1.
2. I just read an article about Vieira hitting back at critics of City’s large squad. I think he was just toeing the company line, but the part of the article that interested me was when they mentioned he has “won three league titles with Arsenal and four with Inter Milan.” I was not aware that he’s now won more league titles with Inter than he did with Arsenal. I know he was far from an integral player there, but he’s definitely one of the few players the Arsenal curse has not affected too badly.
If Vieira won 4 Scudettas with Inter Milan, then Henry also won a treble
and an incredible 6 trophies in one season with Barca
But ultimately they were small fishes in those ponds
Either injured, benched or not considered
and everybody knows and respects them for their heroics at Arsenal only
The curse exists for all, except Cole
Diarra has won more since he left too.
The “curse” is a myth.
Henry did not play a bit part in Barca’s treble-winning season. He was a major part of that team: He, Eto’o, and Messi combined for over 100 goals that year. Henry scored 26 of those goals and had 12 assists to match. Not exactly a small fish.
True.
By the way – I was going to write up something about Perma-Crock RvP – but Arseblog took my thunder. Go to http://www.arseblog.com and if you want my POV on the RvP situation read AB’s.
Also off topic – with all our injuries I guess it could be worse, we could be Man City who paid £23 million for a striker who hasn’t nor can’t feature in an EPL game for at least a month. Balotelli just had surgery on his knee whilst in Italy.
At least our injured are already paid for.
CONFIRMED: Walcott will definitely only miss Bolton and Braga and possibly next saturday’s match and that is it. He wasn’t likely to feature against Spurs.
No break and no ligament damage.
The part that is definite is the no break or ligament damage. There is no certainty over his return. ‘Normal’ ankle injuries can become annoying, tricky and problematic and delay a return for weeks. There’s no way of knowing until the player actually returns.
That last sentence is especially true of Arsenal players.
I agree Fred, you do need a strong midfield with a sense of definition and purpose.
Alas, somewhere along the way Wenger re-thought his strategy and ditched some of the principles that allowed his sides to be successful. The CBs became ‘mobile’, the midfield became cluttered with dross, assorted and without definition, and we know he’s always struggled to pick a serious keeper.
It won’t change. Some eternal optimists said it will change this last off-season, alas Wenger teased again. So lecturing his-nibs is a tad pointless. He has a shiny new contract, I’m guessing around 60% of supporters still back him, the fractured board backs him. He’s staying until the terraces revolt or there’s a board coup. Sadly a terrace revolt is unlikely anytime soon.
The Emirates has become a home for the unambitious. The raw drive to win has long gone, we’ve left that to the Chelsea’s and Manchester’s. We’re in a phase of experimentation, exploring values, overpaid arrogant non-performers with no models of what success looks like. Every new season of failure is explained away. Being a CL qualifier is being a winner. That’s the height of our ambition.
Despite the “shocking” and completely unexpected injuries to RvP and Walcott I still think the forward line is the least of our problems. Sure we should look to cycle out our crocks ASAP but I am still far more worried about the most urgent problem …. CENTRAL MIDFIELD.
A lot of people still do not get it … you cant win a league title with a waffle midfield like we have.
Every single team that wins a league title has the BEST midfield in the year they win it. Go ahead, look thru the history books at the winners of the EPL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, the Dutch league, etc for the last 20 to 30 years. There is an iron clad correlation between the teams with the strongest midfield and the team hoisting the title that year.
Our midfield in 2004 was Vieira, Gilberto, Edu, Flamini, Fabregas.
Our only real rival Man U had a declining Keane, injured Scholes, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba and Nicky Butt.
That midfield was more influential and than having great strikers or defenders.
Remove Vieira and Edu and all of a sudden, Campbell starts having emotional problems, Cole is all over the place, Pires, Ljunberg, Henry and Bergkamp have no fulcrum!
If we can sort out the midfied with strength, tenacity, guile and experience, that would solve 50% of all our problems. We get the defense and GK right and that solves an additional 40% of our problems are solved. Then we can start worrying about our crocks upfront.
As it is right now, even if we had great strikers in our team now we would still not win the league.
A lot of teams have won with a strong midfield (and defense) and poor attack but NO team I know of has won with a strong attack and poor midfield.
Six years running without a strong midfield …
Josh, Arsenal do NOT “need” that money at all. The notion that the club is squeezed for cash is a bold-faced lie; it’s simply not true. I’ve said it time and again on this board: we had the money for big-time buys at Highbury, which means we should have EVEN MORE money for those buys now. Forget the stadium debt, the revenue generated from the new stadium is enough to pay that off, with the remainder still being MORE THAN what the club brought in at Highbury. For Christs sake the corporate ring alone at the Emirates generates more match-day revenue than Highbury did in its entirety.
Allow me to demonstrate:
x = annual income from Highbury
y = annual income from Emirates
z = annual payments on stadium debt
y – z > x
Arsenal are in trouble and it’s all about money. Last summer, even though the team needed a striker, Arsenal sold Adebayor. This summer, even though the team needed a striker, Arsenal sold Jay Simpson. Question, do Arsenal need the money that bad?
I’m a simple country boy from Jacksonville and it was plain as day for me to see that those two “daggum” transfers would hurt the team. How can these smart city boys who get paid millions not see that? Lord knows I think van Persie is a fabulous talent but everybody knows he’s susceptible to injury. If you’re going to keep him, you’ve got to plan for that.
I really believe, the way that Chelsea and Man United dropped points last year, that Arsenal could have won the title had they kept Adebayor. He would have provided a much better chance against Barcelona as well.
“Simpson, Bendtner’s injured. That means you have a stay of execution. You’ll train with the first team every day and will have until January to earn yourself a new deal.”
Even if you don’t fancy Simpson, hang that carrot in his face and you would have had a better, more motivated Simpson; one who remains after training every day with Theo; one who’s desperate to earn a new deal; one who could have given Arsenal an emergency option at striker. Instead, Chamakh will be flogged and broke down by Christmas and Arsenal may play another half-season with no recognized center forward.
Simpson has been at Arsenal since age 9, so I am a bit disappointed he was shipped out. He wasnt the greatest, but there is no proof he is any worse than Bendtner and he definitely is a better striker than Denilson is a midfielder, same goes for Almunia, Diaby and Eboue. Surely, he could have been kept around as a fifth choice especially with Bendy injured and all.
At some point Arsenal will really need to start bringing thru a few players who have “Arsenal DNA” to be mainstays and peripheral players in the team. EVERY SINGLE player at Arsenal right now will BAIL out on the club if an offer comes from a top or rich team. Every single one of them from the captain down to Fabianski.
Barcelona’s success is built on their homegrown players (after they got rid of all the mercenary Dutch players) of the early 2000s.
Arsene Wenger FC is a really unique club. No other club in the world will carry overpaid, disloyal foreign kids with no ties to the club for so long WITHOUT winning. And with a absolutely zero expectations for the next five years at the least.
“Cesc carries Barcelona in the heart, in his DNA, therefore it is impossible for him to forget about them.
He was determined to go to Barca last summer, he more or less confessed it in the dressing room. But that is past history.
Now he is 100 per cent ready to put his all in to a great season with Arsenal.”
_____________________________
Courtesy of Vermaelen. I don’t get it, one week you want to go because Barcelona is in your DNA and the next your 100% AFC. Yeah right. Just building the legacy of flaky wantaway (foreign) Arsenal captains.
Why don’t we offer a double deal, a Wenger/Cesc package in return for Josep Guardiola and 40 million pounds. Time for Arsenal FC to be a real professional football club again that has pride in the shirt and aspires for trophies not ‘a Frenchman’s values’.
How does appointing a coach with Barca DNA help? ;)
I think Guardiola will have to move on. He’s managed a golden period at Barca. He can’t really eclipse what he’s done at the club.
So…. a new challenge will need to be found. He’s been quoted as saying that his tenure at Barca will not be long. The period in the managers chair at Barca is by nature short and intense.
I honestly think Arsenal would be a logical move for him.
I really wish Fabregas has forced his way out this summer.
Arsenal will never have a team of players proud of the Arsenal shirt as long as Wenger is here. He has filled the team with players who owe Wenger personally, not those who care a hoot about the club.
I’m not even sure that the players feel any sort of debt to Wenger either. How many players have walked out or forced their way out of the club? I think the only thing most of the players feel an attachment to is their paychecks.
van Persie acting as a perfect mentor for our young strikers.
His experience is rubbing off on our young guns, and they, undoubtedly are learning fast.
I actually blew a sigh of relief in regards to Walcott’s injury. I usually rag on him but credit where credit is due, he’s obviously trying to develope his game and deserves a run.
It’s a riot. We’ve barely started the season and the attack consists of newbie Chamakh and the much maligned Arshavin. Haven’t we been here before? RvP and Walcott are in the treatment room (all due to bad luck of course, “it could happen to anyone” but it doesn’t it happens to them). Rosicky is a pull or twinge away from joining them – so Wenger will mollycoddle him, playing him carefully sparingly. So it leaves Chamakh and Arshavin to carry a major load.
Wenger and his supporters will rail against internationals (for which I have sympathy) or claim just plain ole bad luck, yet a deeper truth is this is what you get when you bet the house on a bunch of certified crocks (+ a heavy weighting toward youngsters). How many **@#$%$&* years have to go by before we smell the roses?
Too funny. Wasn’t it just about three months ago when people were looking at the stats you posted about RVP and arguing they didn’t prove anything?
Ain’t just a river in Egypt.
Not a lot of joy in being right. :-(
We all want Robin to prove us wrong…but you know…. how many years before the lights come on that he’s a seriously bad risk?
Add Walcott’s frighteningly similar propensity to injury and Rosicky’s certified crockiness and we are paper thin in attack. I’ve long ceased trying to argue with those that so glibly say we have no worries in attack. Yeah right.
I think it was Mazza who said that Wenger acts but too slowly and only in a limited way. It’s true. He acted by cutting Eduardo – which was a very sensible move. But he needed to cut deeper and rid the squad of van Persie or Rosicky. Or, if that’s too hard for him to swallow, then compensate by building a bigger squad with real depth. Either way, it’s absurd that we see the same weakness recur and the season has barely started.
No, no joy in being right. But it does underscore one more area of red-tinted blindness and amnesia.
Cutting Eduardo was comparatively easy. He wasn’t one of the YOOT, suffered an injury that was well understood to be horrific…no real blow to the Wenger ego.
The likes of RVP and Theo will die an Arsenal death of a thousand cuts.
Just read about Capello’s post game pressed:
Fabiola says he spoke to Theo.
Theo said it looked worse than it really was.
Fabiola asked him 2 weeks?
Theo said less.
Scan was negative for a break and any ligament damage. Maybe Theo’s time in the gym will payoff. Personally, I don’t think he should go any where near an Arsenal physio
Hope so Mike, Theo needs an interruption like a hole in the head. And Arsenal need him to maintain his little positive run.
Just as well we’re so well stocked with attacking talent. ;-)
We just need Rosicky to prove his pedigree and join his mates on the treatment table.
Picture of the injury to Walcott.
http://yfrog.com/n0zi0aj
Press box announcement says sprain – not broken.
What the fuck is about International duty? Glad to see the EUROPEAN CLUB ASSOCIATION say that they will start to regulate releasing players on to international duty.
And yes, if I were Wenger I would blame international duty.
Ridiculous….
Meanwhile, Lampard and Terry should be fit for West Ham….
Ankles are tricky. sometimes you can bend them like in the photo, hop around a bit and be fine in five minutes. Usually an ankle turn like that is 10 days to 3 weeks off and then you have to tape it (tight at first, looser as it gets stronger) but it will be weaker for 6 months plus. When you add the force of getting stepped upon, all bets are off and things can get snapped.
I guess this indicates more time for Ah Boo Eee and we’ll be seeing, sooner rather than later, if MC Greasy is the signing we all hope he is or if he’s just a Sham Act….
(Sorry….)
Ohhhh boyyy. Walcott just got felled during the England game, and things don’t look good.
its funny how outside this forum and the club almunia is the but of all the jokes out there;
9) Newcastle Allow Least Shots On TargetThe Toon defence has been the butt (and we’re talking a Titus Bramble-sixed butt here) of jokes since the 4-3 days of Kevin Keegan but that may soon have to change because Chris Hughton’s band of merry men have allowed their three opponents so far (Manchester United, Aston Villa and Wolves) just six shots on target. That’s the same as fellow meanies Arsenal. Should Steve Harper be embarrassed that he’s let in four of those shots? Even Manuel Almunia has managed to make four saves in three games.
I like the title of this article
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=821173&sec=england&cc=4716
Arsenal “announce” Robin van Persie injury setback.
As though, it is like a new signing. ;)
I do like Chamakh and what he brings to the team. However, RVP is our most intelligent forward and opens up the games for others as shown by his high rate of assists.
We will miss him dearly as usual.
They need to send him to Haiti and let their Voodoo witch doctors work him over. :)
Hmm. I am beginning to think RVP purposely injures himself so he can have a long rest. :)
Now Walcott is out injured. 3-5 Weeks out?
Will Wenger blame the international games?
Well, he did kind of get injured in an international qualifier, so he probably will.
Another round of internationals today and I cannot wait for them to be over. For England, I guess Tiger, er, Wayne Rooney will get on with his game, while Theo might sit after Adam Johnson seemed less confused trying to play ahead of his brother Glen. Everybody back safe and sound, OK….
The topic about AW and who will be his Medvedev is a good one but it seems things need to play out on the pitch (and maybe the boardroom) before we get too carried away with wishlists….In the meantime, stability might not be the worst thing, and I will (with some caution) support the current regime and hope for the best. This guy http://swissramble.blogspot.com/ got linked to on the Arseblog a while back and I read him when I otherwise cannot fall asleep….For me it’s a good primer about some of the economic issues (and case studies) in European football. Arsenal’s strategy is under the microscope this season with the Cesc hostage situation (speaking of leaders, or potential ones at least….) and not paying above the market for immediate solutions (Steklenburg in January, anyone?)… We’ll see how it plays out….
But I have to agree with Mazza above about the re-writing of the recent history of the team. (And no one, at least not to my face, has ever accused me of excessive gormlessness….)
In the time I’ve been watching Arsenal they have, in my mind, NEVER looked like real contenders for the biggest prizes. I remember distinctly in early 2008 when an AA thread drifted around to the excitement (and how posters would feel) about winning the league (we had a 5 or 6 point lead, perhaps?) and it just felt CRAZY. Yes, of course, the table never lies, blah, blah, blah, but the meat of the season lay ahead and given the frailty of that team I thought we had about a zero chance of hanging on. Naturally it made me think: Hey, if these guys think there’s a chance, why not? Of course, I also felt quite undeserving, being such a Noob and all, that the team I happened to stumble onto might experience such heady success so early in my tenure as a supporter…I felt the dues I had paid were insufficient for the joy on promise. But we all know how that played out….
So it is with that perspective that I feel a bit more upbeat about the season ahead. The team isn’t so young anymore and some of the recent moves (to me at least) seem promising, though, obviously, some big ones remain. If we were to have a little luck reversal relative to the top two teams in the league re: injuries/injustices our chances might not look so bad. I firmly believe that we are closer to those two than to the next tier of teams, but, given the parity in the middle of the league (mostly due to the wild-card factor of all that Man City money) weird results are going to occur up and down the table and the discipline to take all matches seriously will be more needed than ever. And depending on the success in that effort, the bigger, season-defining matches will arrive (hopefully later rather than sooner) and maybe a little EARNED success in those (not just luck–like RVP not called offsides a couple years back at Stamford Bridge) might be just the tonic.
As many have noted, success begets success (but likewise the chicken begets the egg, or something….) and maybe the move to the new stadium (and a perhaps overly rapid change to a new cast of players) prematurely closed the door on a good/great/successful era (I can’t really comment to that….) but, for this new group, a little (success, that is) might go a long way….
@for this new group, a little (success, that is) might go a long way….
Yes, wouldn’t it be nice to actually go for the Carling or FA Cups to nurture that very idea.
If only we weren’t too good for those.
So, you’re predicting a squad from the 70+ under 21s for the 9/20 match at White Hart Lane? Could be, but I would hope we try a little harder and put out a team with the Smilan Mayan (Vela) at one end and Sneezy at the other, with just enough talent in between to squeeze out a result….
Only time will tell, but at least it’s only a fortnight away….
Oh….And thanks for reading ;-)
Unless we really go for the cups, we will never know if this team is really too good for them or not.
There is no saying that simply by putting a good team in the Carling and FA Cups, we will win them.
I hope it didn’t appear as if I was suggesting we’d win just by showing up with our First Team. Just repeating what many of us have said for some years now…it would seem more consistent with the bringing up of the The Yoot that IS our First Team if they were allowed to compete for the tiny cups before expected to win either the Prem or the CL (as opposed to leaving those to the fetuses that make up the Reserves).
@HTS…Starting with this year’s model of Spurs may put Wenger’s feet to the fire a little more. He’d be loathe to admit it, but there’s something to prove on both sides.
Horrible syntax. Obviously, I mean he fetuses play for the baby cups. The YOOT for…you get it.
Fred, you’re arguing but agreeing with me at the same time. in one post you’re saying that leadership isn’t important but in your very next post you go on to praise your preferred selections of Diarra and Engalaar for their leadership. You’re very right in saying how significant it is for Diaby and Song to have someone to show them the way. that is leadership.
leadership, simply put, is getting people to do what you want them to do. people need direction, purpose, and motivation from leaders. leaders will use motivational words, instructions, self-examples, or even a gun to the head.
arsenal’s problem seems to be they have plenty of young people with desire and skill to be champions but lack the ability; they don’t know how to get there. this is where leadership comes in. it helps them stay focused mentally. it gives them the nastiness and bravado to dominate even with ten men at anfield.
in ’95 we watched Riijkard’s on-field leadership guide a very young Ajax to a champions league crown. it wasn’t just on the field but in training. davids, stay back for this; seedorf, when you don’t know, give it to litmanen; kanu, do it this way; overmars and finidi, don’t try and dribble two guys; reiziger, play the simple ball; litmanen, don’t drop so deep; and all the etceteras. That team wasn’t more talented than Arsenal but they had better leadership.
It’s easy over the passage of time to delude yourself into thinking we are/were challenging – and choose to forget the manner of the defeats/overall collapse – but if you objectively look at the last five years the overall stench of naivity, gormlessness, and complacency, is palpable in all of our failures. That is why it is so easy to predict what is going to happen every single season while Wenger is still at the club.
There is no sign of any of these re-occuring traits being addressed ; indeed they seem a part of the very fabric of the club and ironically enough – part of why we do pretty well for the majority of the season. We react well to defeats earlier on in a season when teams are still jostling for position and the moment of truth (clutch games) is not yet upon us, and we display a consistency and resilience that means we beat the riff-raff more often than not. Yet the flip-side to these traits of consistency and ‘steady eddie’ is that we cannot grasp the nettle or alter our approach in key games or periods, when the stakes are higher and the prize is more tangible i.e a trophy or decisive points as opposed to picking up points for points sake, which is often the case up until January.
The problem could be solved possibly with a significant injection of new personnel, however Wenger oftens brings in just enough in order to maintain status quo, but not enough to change the mentality of the squad to the extent that it can differentiate between the hum-drum league matches and the decisive matches which define a season.
it’s not just bringing in people but the right people. that’s a crap shoot. you simply don’t know how people will respond to different stressors. everyone produces a different response.
for me, it’s all about the leadership on the pitch. you’ve got to have a guy who can rally the troops while still communicating the boss’ intent. that’s an art that not everyone can do. vieira was the last real leader so it’s no wonder why we haven’t challenged since his departure.
what can we do from here? we have players that are technically good enough. it’s all psychological. it seems wenger believes that talent and self-belief are all that’s required. that’s like thinking you can win a war simply because you have a superior army. it takes more than that to win a championship. you’ve got to have a bit of nastiness about you. nice guys don’t win tough battles. nasty boys do.
adams, vieira, henry, bergkamp, parlour, cole, lauren, etc. in their interviews, they were as nice as they could be. however, when they stepped across the chalk, they all were nasty boys that were all about winning and would be willing to rip your heart out to do it.
The whole leadership on pitch thing is a bit of a lame argument point dont you think?
No amount of leadership will turn mediocre players into world beaters. If a set of players literally dont have what it takes to get the job done, no amount of shouting, coaxing or praying will make them suddenly do it.
It is the job of a well paid manager to bring in the right people. Infact it goes without saying that the club should always bring in the right people.
But for the manager to say that the right people dont exist or are too few is quite wrong.
Agreed.
However I think the team’s problem is a bit easier to solve.
Apart from the very obvious GK problems, our main problem is CENTRAL MIDFIELD.
Get in power, experience and steel right in the heart of the team and suddenly the defense clicks, the attack has a proper foundation. When in rythm the team can then attain midfield supremacy at the clutch moments in the clutch games.
It is incredible the amount of times teams try to cut thru our team right down the middle … on the ground no less. Pre-2005, teams hardly ever tried that. They were too scared to even think about it.
Now even when Song is playing, most teams go toe to toe with us on the ground in the middle of the park!
I would personally have gone for two new DMs. M. Diarra and Orlando Engelaar. They are strong, experienced, have very good leadership and organization skills. And they are both at an age that wont “kill” Song or Diaby.
Song and Diaby have absolutely nobody to learn from so they will continue repeating their nonsense.
All this talk about Dein and frankly I am not sure I get it. Yeah I know what he did with the club, but it is also clearly evident he was a power hungry grubber who made a power play and lost.
I just don’t think he is the saint people make him out to be.
Would enjoy reading a book by him and then one by Fiszman knowing that some where in the middle the truth lied.
I don’t believe anyone thinks or has described him as a saint. I have no idea what he was like as a person, but tend not to give people in positions of that kind of power of the benefit of a doubt.
We just like the way the club was run when he was here as a counter balance/support for Wenger.
Maybe the same applies to Arsene as well.
We all know what he did to the club, but it is also clearly evident that Arsene is hell bent on winning by his own terms and had made a youth play which is losing (or not winning).
So he too ain’t exactly the saint people make him out to be.
Just a thought.
BOOM! goes the dynamite.
Okay, You Think You Could Do Better Than Arsene?
_______________________________________
No, I think he can and should do better himself. Like Big Sam said recently he’s moved away from what worked for him. And that pretty much sums it up.
Wenger had an approach that worked and then he decided he wanted to build a golden generation of pretty-footballing kids. Maybe he saw what Fergie did with Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, the Neville’s and wanted to emulate it. Who really knows? All we know for sure is that we’ve stopped winning anything. And more worryingly we don’t seem to care too much. Our aspirations are diluted downward every year.
Who next?
_________________________________________
No one knows that either. You have to know who is the power broker at Board level, and who has the get-up-and-go to put forward a name when the time comes. The longer we wander in the wilderness the more intense the desire to get back to winning ways.
It makes sense to me to hire a pragmatic manager like a Guus Hiddink to do some quick remedial work and win something. During this time you could identify and appoint a longer term candidate hopefully to take us into the next extended period of success.
But truth is, the board could go any direction. A Hiddink could come in. Guardiola COULD be appointed. Bould could be appointed. No one knows. Perhaps the most frigthening route is for Wenger to identify his successor (puppet) and move into Putin type role. Aaaarrrrggghhhh!!! There was a time when that prospect would have seemed rather appealing – but that diminished with each passing window and his deepening commitment to show 2 fingers to conventional wisdom.
Yeah, I fear that whole Putin scenario my self.
When he leaves, he should just leave completely.
A bit off topic but I think the difference in how people view “success” is what makes arsenal fans opinions so polarized.
Those who view success as simply winning trophies versus those who expect us to challenge. I think its tough when people say we haven’t challenged for a title in 4-5 years because i think we have come quite close and there is always some luck involved doesnt matter who you are especially when you play in a league where we have had three-four genuine title contenders every season.
I think people define success differently because they define “challenging” (for the title) differently. I don’t think anyone is demanding that Arsene win trophies or leave; that set of fans simply doesn’t think he is allowing Arsenal to challenge, while the other set of fans thinks the team is challenging.
The latter argument doesn’t need explanation; it’s not hard to see why people perceive a team that always makes the CL to be challenging for the league title.
But the other crowd I think perceives this high finishing place simply as a beneficial byproduct of Wenger’s youth system. They do not believe Wenger cares at all about simply winning- only about winning on his terms. Most probably would agree with the sentiment that he would persist with his youth strategy even if we were not perennial CL qualifiers. If we were finishing 5th thru 8th every year, they probably believe he would continue with the same strategy. They see 3rd/4th as the absolute limit of the youth experiment: it is impossible for it to take us any further, and thus unless Wenger decides to make a few changes to his style, they do not view Arsenal as being able to exceed this limit. I don’t think they’d demand the league title if they perceived Arsene to be making an honest go of it, as defined by them.
Robinho explains City failure. Ha. This week’s winner in the “I am a spoiled, pampered, unaccountable athlete” sweepstakes. He wants to blame his coaches, Elano for weaving him awone, Manchester, England, even being Brazilian.
Holy crap, will I enjoy rooting for him to fail at Milan.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=820784&sec=england&cc=5901
Actually, that article was a very positive article. He praised the English league and stadiums and accepted that he just couldnt adapt.
There is nothing wrong with what he said.
Personally, I think Robinho will be a major success at Milan. Milan pamper their players.
And I think Milan will have an excellent season. I am not sure they will win the CL but they are favorites for Serie A.
“I think Robinho will be a major success at Milan. Milan pamper their players.”
Are you sure those two sentences are related?
After all, Arsenal pamper their players too, but very few of them have been successful.
I mean pamper in the “latin” football sense. Ronaldinho has been revitalized out there.
Players like Robinho really need to be “pampered”. Just like Riquelme, Veron and a host of other playmaking South Americans.
That tradition works in Italy and Spain but definitely not in England or any north European country.
Milan pamper Ronaldinho, Ibra, Seedorf and Nesta … proven champions and elder statesmen. Arsenal pamper Denilson, Walcott, etc. There is a big, big difference.
We read it differently, then. His ‘admission’ he couldn’t cut it was in among a whole lot of finger pointing. He blamed his coaches, both of them, for not knowing how to use him. He complained that the organization was only about football and that it was like an office…you know, a place where one goes to work. Then he said because he’s Brazilian, he has to be happy in every aspect of his life (ie, the club couldn’t meet his every emotional need, so his football suffered).
Yes, he acknowledged how great the Prem is. I don’t give him credit for a grasp of the obvious.
Well, every South American is going to have that exact view. It is a fact of life for them that a football club is more than just work.
That is why most South American playmaker types fail badly in England.
I still think he will fair very well at Milan. They have the set up that suits him to a T.
They will buy him flowers, sing him love songs, take him to the opera … and he will perform for them. Just like Ronaldinho before him.
Had he just said ‘I didn’t like the weather and the style of play’, fine. But he whined and blamed.
My initial point is still not different from what you’re saying now. You just seem to be okay with it, because you believe it’s cultural.
So most South Americans are soft complainers who can’t hack the Prem? Seems a bit broad, no? Doesn’t City itself have a couple of guys who say otherwise?
Yeah, it is cultural and am not at all shocked. I expected this exact outcome when he moved 2 years ago. David Silva will follow in the same footsteps too. Some people cant handle the culture shock.
There were some kids like that who Ajax tried to bring through back in the early 90s and they never made it because they were used to clubs acting as “parents”. PSV, on the other hand after a few failures actually hired a team of south american “experts” to help them with their imports … and they got a lot of success with Romario, Ronaldo, etc. Thats pretty much the kind of effort you have to put into S. American players a lot of the time.
A friend of mine from college works in sports fitness and does some work with Torino and he told me that Crespo had the following treatment when he was loaned to Milan:
– Flowers (!!!) sent to his place every week.
– Regular opera (!) tickets.
– Salon, shopping and spa appointments for his wife.
– Private musuem tours.
– Top wines sent over.
– Regular “dates” of club officials (as high up as Galliani) with him and his parents where they discuss “life”, arts and play cards and board games.
And this is a 30 something year old married MAN we are talking about!!!
For them, this is considered normal treatment for your “difficult” stars you want to coax into good form. In the Anglo world, we would roll on the floor laughing!
That is why I am not at all surprised by Robinho’s comments and I think he will definitely feel “loved” at Milan and will hence do well.
“Some people” are not “most”. Guys like Tevez and Santa Cruz, to name but two South Americans (and two of his former teammates), aren’t so soft.
Anyway, I started this by announcing Robhino as this week’s winner in the “I am a spoiled, pampered, unaccountable athlete”.
While your tone is contradictory of that, your arguments are supportive. So he’ll remain this week’s champ.
And we’ll divide as to whether or not we want him to succeed this year.
Committee meeting adjourned.
Just some slight off topic news making the rounds today –
1. Dawson is out up to 8 weeks – Spurs starting CBs are now Gallas and Ledley King.
2. Wayne Rooney has been cheating on his wife with a £1K a night hooker.
They also have Sebastien Bassong, young French player whom I rate very highly. I had wanted us to get him last season when he left Newcastle for Spurs.
I agree with Carrib. I rate Bassong higher than Dawson or Kaboul.
Well, Rooney got caught slippin’. So, was she hot? Like, I know the broad Ribery got caught up with was smokin’. If the boys got me a birthday gift built like that, I probably would have smashed it too. I think my wife might have given me a pass if it was a one time thing and I was up front about it.
Now, before you cocksuckers start judging me, ask yourself, honestly, would you walk away from that opportunity; that is, of course, not knowing that she was 17? Most of us can go an entire year without even seeing someone that hot, let alone meet her and have your way with her for the night.
It’s at times like this where it would be nice to have a button to delete a post.
(like)
LOL! For real Kiwi. I usually have a response for everything, but none for this!
I would give Josh a pass though … sounds more like a “horny soldier” rant than anything else… lol
such is my life. such is the often crude nature of many conversations with colleagues in this austere environment. it’s essential for survival. even four-star generals seek out this banter to help give balance to wars and it has cost some their careers.
i accept that it’s jaded but it’s how we cope. i asked not to be judged. soon, i too will take for granted traffic jams, mowing the lawn, poor restaurant service, and late work days. but this is the hand i’m dealt. i don’t need anyone to understand, just pardon my petulence. i’ll start bitching about things like wenger not signing a keeper soon enough.
To be very honest, I see Arsene leaving under only three circumstances
1. He wins the CL
2. Arsenal are out of the top 4 for a few years and fans’ discontent grows too much
3. A new board takes over
I don’t see any of the above happening, so I would not be surprised if three years from now, he signs a new contract.
Yeah… I don’t see him leaving in 2014 either.
I think Capello’s about the same age as Arsene Wenger.
Mourinho will only come back to manage Manchester United.
The job might prove intriguing for Guus. What manager wouldn’t want to inherit the Arsenal job.
Martinez? Nope. He won’t get the keys to this car.
Pep? Nope. Can’t see him in England.
I threw around Flores’ name last year. Don’t know if he knows English. Valencia’s biggest mistake was to sack him. They’ve taken a mighty fall from grace since then. Atletico played some exciting footie last year but were incredibly inconsistent. He should fit in fine at Arsenal.
Some players will never make good managers. Likewise, some good number twos will never be good number ones. I don’t see Pat Rice leading Arsenal. Likewise, I like Fred’s idea of Dennis as a number two but he doesn’t want the stress of being the number one.
The most likely candidate of your list is Flores or Moyes. They’re both smart guys with good managerial experience. What’s more likely is it will be someone that we haven’t thought of.
I definitely would not want any of those high-profile “pragmatic” managers. Pragmatic being a synonym for defensive.
We should promote from within. Steve Bould has shown as much technical nous and a fundamental understanding of the club coupled with an understated personality. He has as much experience if not more, as Pep Guardiola did when he took over at Barca.
Plus, it should be solid Arsenal practise to progress long-serving players into the club’s hierarchy. Man U, Barcelona, Madrid, Milan, Juve all do it extensively.
And it does make sense, if you play for a club for over a decade and you are a role model without an outsized ego, then you should progress seamlessly into the coaching staff (if the player wants that and has his badges!)
That is the kind of thing that builds and strengthens loyalty amongst the young players.
DAG,
Four years from now is just around the corner. Yet, it only takes one or two seasons for some unknown to find their way into the spotlight of this sport.
I would like to see Bergkamp and some other players back with the club in coaching capacity, but only if they have a capacity to coach, not just hired because of reputation.
If I were on the board, I would be asking our manager for his input, and to maintain an on-going short list of prospects for all coaching positions within the club.
Manager: Steve Bould
Asst. Manager: Dennis Bergkamp
First team coach: Neil Banfield
Reserve team coach: Lee Dixon
Youth team coach: Robert Pires
Goalkeeping coach: David Seaman
Defense coach: Martin Keown
Academy director: Nigel Winterburn
Chief scout: Gilles Grimandi
Chief Executive: David Dein
General Manager: Patrick Vieira
Completely new board of directors.
Arsenal FIRST!
Yeah, it wouldn’t be enough to change only Manager. The Board has been complicit in the complacent. A new, powerful, Arsenal (football) oriented CE would be even more important.
Kind of depressing, when you think about it, as you have to wonder if such a thing will ever be possible again.
Thierry Henry would be pissed that you haven’t included him in there somewhere.
A lot of people would have to die to get David Dein back at Arsenal.
Everybody in that list loves and respects David Dein. He brought EVERY single one of them to the club.
The only people who’s head would explode if Dein returned would be the current members of the board and I want them to GET LOST anyway.
I don’t view Henry or Adams for that matter as players who are likely to be good coaches.
Historically, the best coaches have been understated and hardworking defenders or “visionary” defensive midfielders who can map out the pitch instantly. Bergkamp was a bit higher up but probably one of the best “pitch mappers” of all time.
Folks who use physical gifts to dominate almost always fail as coaches. Plus Henry has that whole ego thing going on.
Dein would be ideal. But that’s what I’m thinking seems just about impossible without some sort of bloody coup.
I wouldn’t say technically gifted players are necessarily less suited to coaching. Cruyff, Rijkaard, and Guardiola were all exceptional players and later exceptional coaches. And most think Bergkamp would be a good coach too. On second thought, maybe it’s just a Dutch/Barca thing. Of those 4, 3 are Dutch, and 3 played for AND coached Barca.
I never said technically gifted players dont make good coaches, I said players who have physical gifts (speed, strength, dribbling).
Guardiola and Rijkaard were DMs and I said historically, understated CBs and “visionary” DMs make very good coaches. I also gave a reason why Bergkamp will make a good coach. That same reason applies to Cruyff.
Players like Shearer, Henry, Vieira, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Walcott historically make woeful coaches. Their physical skills bails them out of trouble.
On the other hand a player like Gary Neville would make an excellent manager. A limited player who has to constantly think, anticipate and position himself.
Same with someone like Fabregas. He would also make an excellent manager.
I made a similar claim about players with special talents being good managers. I think we were talking about Maradona before the World Cup. You worded it better than I did.
I think Vieira would be a good coach because as well as being physically imposing, he’s also very tactically sound. His physicality was a plus. It’s no mystery that Arsenal haven’t even been close to winning a title since he left.
Gary Neville? I can’t see it. I believe a manager has to be able to guide his players on how to win tough games. I don’t think Neville has that about him. If he didn’t happen to grow up in the Man United systesm, would he even be relevant in football? Sparky and Steve Bruce were real winners but Neville isn’t cut from the same cloth.
Thats the point, Neville is so limited, that for him to survive at a big, winning club like Man U for so long (with a no nonsense manager like Ferguson no less), he MUST have “something” that saves him, and allows him to display consistent competency.
That “something” makes is what makes you a good manager.
He is FORCED to be able to read the game several steps ahead (or his lack of pace or physique or skill gets caught out), he is forced to position well (or gets caught out), he is forced to arrange his defence well (or he gets caught out).
People like him KNOW who and who adds strength to the team, how and where a team might break down and what passages of play are responsible.
Players like Neville have to or else they will never survive. Yet those qualities would make a very good coach.
Hughes and Bruce are mediocre coaches so why are you dissing Neville for not being them them??
Those two players had a strong physique-based game, and their mediocre coaching is not surprising to me at all.