UCL Match Day 5: Arsenal v FC Braga; Match Preview
Da Group Stages Return
If I am honest with all of you – I am still smarting from this weekend. I seriously needed some time away from the blog, the team and the EPL. But then Chelsea had to go an lose and least give me a false hope for the season (yes losing to Spurs has made me become somewhat slightly of a doubter) but as I said earlier, I look at each new match with renewed hope. I am just finding harder to get that renewed hope this time around.
Anyway, with that and my absloute disgust with the UCL group stages – an utterly useless waste of time – I am going to keep it brief.
The last time these two teams met at the Emirates it wasn’t even close. For all their bravdo and talk, Braga simply didn’t show up. I suspect that since we are in Portugal that may change but frankly, I really don’t see Braga as a threat.
A win, and we win the group outright. A draw though is enough to secure us our ticket. Frankly, that may be on Arsene’s mind as he has left both Arshavin and Van Persie at home. Also, I think it is unlikely that Fabregas gets the start as he in my opinion at least still does not look fit.
Arsene has pledged himself to winning something this season. Oddly enough the team is still in contention for all trophies. I am and have been of the belief that the chances for a European trophy are actually pretty good with squad because of the nature of the possible opponents. As long as Arsenal avoids an English team it could be in for a good run.
I believe that will happen.
How this Should Play Out:
I am looking for a big push out of the boys in this match. The squad needs to refocus itself coming off the collapse this weekend. Anything less than a complete 100% effort for 90 minutes is unacceptable. Look for the squad to attack and attack early. At home it was a 6-0 walk in the park with braces by Vela and Fabregas. While we are travelling to Braga I suspect Arsenal to get the win they need to advance to their 11th consecutive knockout stage.
Possible Starting XI:
Arsenal: Fabianski, Sagna, Gibbs, Squillaci, Djourou, Denilson, Song, Wilshere, Rosicky, Bendtner, Walcott
Braga: Felipe, Silvio, Rodriguez, Miguel Garcia, Vardinho, Luis Aguiar, Alan, Lima, Paulo Cesar, Matheus
Injuries/Suspensions:
Arsenal: Diaby (ankle) Vermaelen (achilles) Ramsey (ankle) Frimpong (knee)
Braga: Quim (achilles) Eldersen (Suspended – 1) Salino (Suspended – 1)
Broadcast:
US: Fox Soccer Channel 2:30PM
UK: Sky Sports 2 1945
Feeds:
www.atdhe.net
GAMEDAY CHAT: It’s Open!!!!!! www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
YAMA Prediction:
Arsenal: 3
Braga: 0
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*”; I am really thankful to this topic because it really gives great information “;”
Ramsey sent out on loan to Forest until Jan 3. Also Lansbury is sent out and possibly JET might as well.
But maybe one day Wenger will consider bringing in loan players to generate some competition and fire up players who are busy cruising on the pitch (no offense to Tom Cruise who is also out on loan).
Happy Turkey day to all and may we forget about our woes for one day and dream of whipping Villa on Saturday.
Yes, the game will be on EPSN2. If we’re lucky we’ll get a glimpse of Pires.
So Cesc Fabregas joins the extremely long list of players who have been re-injured b/c Arsene Wenger and/or the Arsenal F.C. medical staff rushed them back too soon after injury. And as a result, he joins the long list of players who take months upon months to recover from injuries that should only result in a 2-4 week layoff.
Ok, here it is – the stats to put all doubts and arguments to rest. ;)
For ease, I have counted Aug-Dec vs Jan-May.
Season, First Half Points Per Game, Second Half Points per game, Difference
09-10, 2.20, 1.64, -0.56
08-09, 1.87, 1.90, +0.03
07-08, 2.42, 1.78, -0.64
06-07, 1.90, 1.71, -0.19
05-06, 2.00, 1.73, -0.27
04-05, 2.07, 2.11, +0.04
Cesc and Eboue out for 2-4 weeks (Eboue as many as 6-8). Nordtveidt to get a run out.
Fatty out and Harvard in could just be a net positive for the club.
Happy Thanksgving everyone. I will have a preview of Saturday’s early (yes, another one) morning match some time tomorrow.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family too DAG.
I do have Arsenal’s stats for the last 5-6 seasons. Let me see if I can whip up the first half vs second half numbers by the end of the day (too much work to be doing it in office). :)
What are you on about?
Gibbs had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the goals.
The first was straight down the MIDDLE through that absolute donkey, Denilson.
The second was from the RIGHT hand side of the pitch. Denilson was initially closer to the ball than the opponent but for some reason ended up getting to the ball second. He was lucky not to get a second yellow card for clattering his man. With Mattheus cutting Squillaci with ease, and directly facing the goal, it only makes sense for Gibbs to try to block that. It was just common sense from the striker’s point of view to cut back quickly and shoot.
Again, both had nothing to do with Gibbs. Infact he was one of our better players. Same with Djorou.
Our main problem was our imbalanced and dysfunction midfield AS ALWAYS. With great help from our impotent strikeforce.
There is only so much defenders can do. There NEEDS to be competent support from midfield. Infact your ability to defend relies a lot on what you have got in midfield.
But for Wenger, Denilshit, a roaming DM and an 18 year old AM are suitable.
My point about Denilson is if Gibbs hadn’t pushed so far up the pitch, when we had just went down a defender, Braga would have never had the obvious mismatch of Denilson on a center-forward. Djourou obviously covered for Eboue while Squillaci was moved wide by smart movement from the guy he was marking. Had Gibbs maintained his position, Squillaci could have passed his player on to Gibbs and maintained a central position. Once Arsenal lost the ball, Gibbs was out of position.
As for the second goal, if you’ve got a guy who’s as one-footed as their goal-scorer and he’s switched the ball to his weaker foot, you challenge him to beat your keeper with his weaker foot. Gibbs was reckless in his defensive approach and did what I like to call ball chasing instead of paying attention to what was going on. Gibbs had done the hard part by forcing the guy on his right foot as Squillaci was there and Fabianski was in position to defend that shot. By recklessly chasing the ball, their striker just cut the ball back to his dominant foot and, despite being surrounded, took an un-challenged shot with his dominant foot. Our defenders looked like a bunch of clowns.
This is basic defending. You always have to give an opponent an an option. Always give him the most difficult option and make him prove he’s got the skill and composure to finish the more difficult option and you make him prove it time and again for ninety minutes. You never give your opponent the easy way out.
Still doesnt make sense to me.
It is FREQUENTLY the role of the DM to combat the center forward! It is only a mismatch because our “DM” is an absolute wanker of a player who doesnt understand the basics of the offside rule or his own inadequacies.
So Gibbs should have been in the center? When is a fullback ever in the center on that sort of play??
If anything you should be asking where the hell Squillaci and Djourou were in a 3 man defense.
For the second goal, Gibbs, seeing the snail Squillaci brushed aside should just have stayed there without trying for the block?
Shouldnt ONE of Djorou or Squillaci have DIVED in a few yards before to force the striker to commit so that the other two can mop up??
But for some reason, its ALL Gibbs fault.
Again, Gibbs had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the goals.
As for Tuesday, Braga played a tough game. There was a lot of diving and the referee didn’t help. That’s all the more reason we can’t afford for Bendtner to be an absolute waste like he was. He’s supposed to be the tip of the sword, yet he gave Arsenal nothing. Fabregas had to work twice as hard to try and give us a presence. I knew after twenty minutes that Cesc wouldn’t play the entire game; whether it be down to injury or lack of interest.
I know “Calamity Clichy” is a popular term here but his back-up cost us the game yesterday. If you’re in a tie game that you don’t have to win with less than ten minutes remaining and have just gone down to ten men because you lost a defender, what defender in their right mind would would immediately push up the pitch? Everyone knows you keep it tight for atleast the next five minutes to ensure you’ve got a good shape. That’s remedial Basic Defending-097 and to deviate from that is inexcusable. However, that’s exactly what Gibbs did. He pushed up as if we still had eleven men. Squillaci had to cover him which pushed him further away from Djourou, meaning our CM’s (Denilson or Wilshere) have to match-up against a CF’s.
For their second, Gibbs was equally guilty. He made a dynamite recovery run and was poised on a left-footed striker’s left foot. All of his help was to the right, to include two teammates and a goalkeeper if he forces the striker to the right. Instead of pressuring the striker to shoot with his weaker foot, he completely relinquishes the initiative to his opponent to put the ball on his dominant foot and shoot unchallenged from eight meters. A Champions League striker is not going to miss from eight meters with the keeper out of the play.
Gibbs didn’t cover himself in glory. He made two very basic defensive mistakes that led to two Braga goals. His forrays in attack don’t make up for all of his attacking potential.
err, in the last line, i meant to say that gibbs’ forays in attack don’t make up for his errors in basic defending. (blame it on jet lag)
I think in time they will. Even last night, while still not fully fit, he made some very good runs and wasn’t afraid to get in behind. That is absolutlely huge for a team like us that plays narrow in midfield.
As for defence Gibbs is bit like Kozzer. A gentlemanly defender that seems a bit too timid. But Clichy has been awful defensively himself recently so I don’t think we lose much there with Gibbs. Clichy just plays more intense and that gives the impression he’s switched on, when really he is a bag of nerves.
Meh game and result. Pretty tedious viewing.
Just to touch on Fabregas’s selection last night, in Wenger words ” a gamble”. This yet another example of the dithering old Basil Fawlty not learning from previous mistakes, in a fashion which suggest some form of mental retardation.
Three years, we went to Seville, not really needing to win but a win would have guaranteed first place. A bit like last night. Cescy boy was also a carrying an injury, a hamstring injury. Again a bit like last night. At the time a few of us questioned the selection of Fabregas that night in seville, both because of the injury and the mix and match nature of the team. Why not go the whole haul and rest everyone? Why risk your king pin and in the process sully his morale by playing him with second stringers when the inevitable defeat occurs(Seville were hot at that point). So, naturally we got our backsides handed to us that night, and Cesc limped off after half an hour. A pitiful draw and defeat to Newcastle and Boro followed.
So, when confronted with the same dilemma last night one would think Wenger may have learned his lesson a bit. In true Wenger fashion, he dithered – he dallied – he dithered again – and somehow came to same boneheaded decision that cost us three years ago. He played Fabregas with a dodgy hammy, with a mix and match side, in a pretty pointless match, again needlessly throwing him into the mire with doubts in his head, and once again we saw an antsy, frustrated Fabregas, not being able to have the influence he wanted, and no doubt this frustation led to him straining his hamstring again with that somewhat ambitious and desperate lunge on a speculative long ball.
So once again, Fabregas out for three weeks and we are ripe for a repeat of the demoralising defeats of three years ago, which softened us up and arguably contributed to our second and terminal flop in the crutch later on that season.
It’s just little things like that bring to roost the actual point of Wenger continuing. He just seems to caught in an endless loop of weary gormless decisions, leading unsurprisingly, to the same results that the previous decisions gave rise to.
I made the point back in April of Wenger taking silly risks during Champions League games. We lost both Fabregas and Gallas for the season in the same game because Wenger played them when they weren’t fit. Henry’s last game for Arsenal was in a CL game that he wasn’t fit enough to play in. Some seem to believe Wenger won’t risk players health but here’s the proof. I called bullshit on that years ago when we watched how poorly he managed Rosicky’s injury. He’s done it to many players in the past. Now, it’s Fabregas’ turn to be injured too long for an injury that should have been easy to manage. Fabregas is getting it twice in the same year from the same boss in his pursuit of the same trophy. Wow.
Yep, am struggling to think of one time when risking an injured player paid off. Fabregas against Villa is one but he came off the bench.
Wenger’s handling of Cesc in that Barca game is the most criminal management in the history of football.
Before the match he knew the guy had a crack on the bone and was a serious doubt. After the pen, he so obviously could not even run without limping so exaggeratedly YET Wenger just sat there. Even though it was just the first leg.
Incredible.
Ahh, back home at last. Just in time for Thanksgiving and to watch my beloved team lose two games in three days.
Just watched the Spurs game on Monday night. The good news is we didn’t lose because Spurs were better than us. The bad news is we lost to a Spurs team that wasn’t better than us. We lost because of two bone-head plays. Cesc’s handball, bonehead. Scary thing is it’s not the first time he’s done that. He does it quite frequently. Fred’s favorite defender, Koscienly, is garbage. How do you miss a free and perfectly-delivered header from three meters? How do you not even put it on target? But what was more bonehead was the foul that lead to Kaboul’s header. I literally yelled at the TV, “what the fuck are you doing?” He wasn’t even close to winning that ball. That foul cost Arsenal a point. In my opinion, Wenger saw the light and it also cost Kosh his place in the starting line up. We paid ten million for that assclown. I hope he improves.
I don’t disagree or challenge the ability and talent of our captain. However, all of the summer circus atmosphere has tarnished his ability to lead Arsenal. (imo)
Since his joining the club (for those that have followed his progress for the past 7 years), I’m assuming that each year there has been an improvement in his overall play and contribution. I can only compare the prior 3 seasons.
This season’s sub-par play is not a result of poor support. I have never seen him play so many poor touches – either to receive a pass or play the ball to an open teammate. It has been openly discussed for the past month.
I prefer not to evaluate his performance by his goal production, but a ‘great player’ will raise the level of play of those players around them. I don’t see that from his play.
Maybe he is trying too hard.
Great players don’t make excuses. So the published remarks about how many matches he’s played in his young career…….open to debate.
I’m hoping the 3-4 weeks off will allow Cesc to re-emerge as the Cesc of last season. Wishful thinking on my part but I’m prepared to have the team step up and find success on the pitch with out him.
I do remember last season that Inter & Barca struggled in the group stages – not qualifying until the last match. Inter going on the win the silverware. This is not to say we have the talent of Inter just to reflect that good teams sometimes don’t find their rhythm early on…..
Perhaps we can statistically analyze our point totals for first half vs second half (of the season) vs total to determine if we are or are not a “2nd half team”….
Nipuna?….
Those sorts of things might be available going back quite awhile….(at least until the three points for a win era began–1981 in England)…..
Still some would argue, perhaps based on their (inherent) disposition, that this group will or will not do better as the season moves on….
The clubs problem has been experienced depth and we’ve fallen short of this.
Last year in the home stretch – last 6 – 9 matches and within 3 point of league: we lost every key player in April / May. Song, Cesc, Vermaelen, Gallas, Arshavin, and RvP.
tarnished his ability to lead Arsenal? with who?
His job is not to lift the performance of the other clowns he plays with. His role is to provide that release-ball consistently. And he ALWAYS does that. His teammates just need to take advantage of it.
His role is the diamond in our style of play and the so called “lifting the team” is something physically robust players like Gerrard are assigned. That is not Fabregas’ style and will never be.
Notice how in the seasons, the midfield is balanced defensively, “suddenly” Fabregas seems on fire.
You think the like of Zidane, Kaka, et al would have survived without proper balance in their midfields?
Leave Fab alone. Its not his fault he plays with clowns.
Our captain, spent all summer allowing rumors to circulate about his leaving the club, that included the photo op with the Barca jersey.
At any time, he could have made the statement that he was committed to Arsenal and looked forward to the upcoming Arsenal season…….did he do this at the end of May, in June, in July? NO, he was silent on his status with the club. What an insult to Arsenal.
All of this was disrespectful – not just my opinion, but through out the blogosphere (this summer) fan’s expressed the same sentiments AND here at YAMA.
Oh, he may have the talent of someone much older, but he is still a 23 yr old “kid” and acted like it. Signs a contract and is the highest paid player for the club and this is what the club receives in return.
Now don’t go into the rationale that Barca developed this player. This is an urban legend. Cesc would never have benefited from the top class competition our manager and club provided over the past 6 years. It was not going to happen at Barca.
You can make all the excuses you want for captain cesc – the reality is what we see on the pitch.
“lifting the team’ = physically robust; great players don’t have to be physically robust: Platini, Zico, Cruyff, Xavi, Iniesta,
What was the Arsenal mid-field last season? What is the mid-field this year? I don’t see any change for his support in mid-field.
Where he plays on the pitch has nothing to do with him being pushed off the ball consistently, poor touches, and errant passes. This uncharacteristic play has been discussed all fall.
Leave Fab alone. Are you now dictating which players can be criticized?
“Its not his fault he plays with clowns.” Same clowns he played with last season and looked so good with.
When Cesc exhibits performances as last year OR close to last year, he will be entitled to praise.
Dont care that much about the CL loss or Arsenal’s participation in it – we are not going to win it anyway.
If we dont qualify, on the plus side, the board loses money, meaning we would have to go all in for the cups (trophies we can actually win!).
On the other hand, having Spurs in the CL and us in the Europa league would be torture!
———————————
As for the game:
– Sell Bendtner in January. He is simply a less experienced, less mobile player than Chamakh. We NEED a new striker though. Vela also needs to go.
– Denilson is the utter definition of shit.
– Eboue has gained more weight than Ronaldinho did back in 07/08. So much for Arsenal’s tough fitness regime.
– We still no fuck all about defending.
– The experiment of Wilshere as a DM is brainless. As brainless as having the other DM bombing forward.
Ah well.
Villa awaits us with licked lips.
Disn’t see last nights game (good thing in hindsight), but a note on Cesc.
Cesc, stupidest of all handballs aside, is still our best player and the heartbeat of the team. Do not underestimate what he does just because he tends to make some of it look so easy. Here’s some stats from the last gameweek (all 10 games):
-He had more throughballs than any other player
-He was second in successful dribbles (only N’Zogbia had more)
-More passes than any other player
-More successful passes in the opposition half than any other player
-A comparison with VdV (who many, myself included, thought had a decent game)- VdV had 24 passes on Sat vs 84 for Cesc. 84 passes in one game!!! 59 of which were in the opponents half!
Now I know stats can be misleading and can be hand-picked to illustrate a player in a certain light, but these compare players from all 10 games and IMO anyway, is a mere confirmation of what I am seeing on the pitch: Cesc is one of the best midfielders in the league,and even though it is clear he isn’t up to top form, he is still by far and away our best man. In fact, it would seem he’s head and shoulders above pretty much the whole league as an AM.
Hope he’s back soon.
Totally agree Ozi, (and I’ve got to get going onto the beautiful cold snow we’ve got….-3 degrees F/-20 C….) How’s the weather in Perth?
Still, I think, we can discuss how players are doing relative to their own abilities, and how their play and attitude trickles down (or up) to the others….
For now, however, we will have to cope with Cesc being out and, given our recent results/performances every match is a big one. As such there is a real opportunity for others to step up and show themselves as leaders.
If you had seen yesterday’s match there was a real feeling (from me at least) that the players don’t realize that we’re all in the same boat together, and at the moment it ain’t no cruise ship. In fact it seems a lot more like a little rubber dinghy (life-boat). The players need to paddle together towards some shared goal (no matter how remote it might seem), rather than scan the horizon for a (bigger/better) ship that they can jump onto….
Unbearably hot mate. Hit 39 this past week. Jealous of all that snow…
Exactly. NOBODY in England can do what Fabregas has been doing CONSISTENTLY and out of the limelight for the last five years. No one!
There are a few AMs in Europe with similar quality but NONE can take the absolute beating of the EPL and still maintain that game.
When he goes a lot of the Cesc-haters would be gobsmacked at the collapse our the game system we (attempt to) play.
I think Cesc is a wonderful player… and he makes us much better.
BUT, Fred… you said below that the CL doesn’t matter, we aren’t winning anyway… maybe that would force the boards hand / teams hand to try and win a Cup.
OK.
On that same note, CESC ISN’T STAYING anyway, we know he doesn’t want to be here… so sell him in January… while we can … before he gets injured or harms his reputation with a shit season…
We aren’t winning with him anyway, so maybe that will force Wenger or the Club to reconsider what the hell they are doing (or not doing)…
Collapse without him? doubt it.
We’ll still be in the hunt for Top 4.
I never said Arsenal will collapse without him, I said the style of play we attempt will collapse without him. Big difference.
Without Fabregas we are just an endlessly Denilson-style passing side without release.
Whether we will still be a top four side is up to debate. That would depend on how tight our defense is. LOL!
not exactly, it will depend on who is brought in… when Cesc departs…
if we keep up the shit where we get an unknown 17 year old, then it will take years for him to adapt and Wenger to mold him… and we could be in trouble for the Top 4…
but if we signed a couple of ready to play EPL type players around 24- 26… and shored up the areas that have needed help for numerous seasons, then we might be a lock for the Top 4 spot as usual.
Everyone knows that there will be no outside replacement for Fabregas.
Wilshere and Ramsey are the groomed replacements.
So yes, whether we will make top four is up for debate.
Back when I was writing screenplays, we used to always try to take the character as low as he/she could go and then take ’em even lower….
As always, life (far) exceeds art…
Where to begin? How about some “character studies”….
Eboue: Do any of us long-time viewers actually believe he’s hurt? I guess if his injury puts us down to 10 men, maybe he really is….The lie of carrying a cheerful fellow like him is finally exposed for what it is. He really cannot play the game of football any longer (he looks fat and as eager to run as, say, Andrey Arshavin….) We actually need a back-up at FB….Luckily, I guess, the new one, Kieran Gibbs, played the full match and actually looked to be trying….
Bendtner: It seems that getting dropped from the team after his outlandish statements made him feel the need to prove himself….How else can you explain the (preposterous) loping into all areas of the pitch hoping for a touch, any touch, while other, less motivated, teammates, looked on in horror/bemusement and tried to avoid collision with the goofy tall blonde guy? What top club wouldn’t want Bendtner after a “performance” like that? I just looked up the quote…It was Marcellus, not Hamlet, who says, “There’s something rotten in the state of Denmark”….(Which goes for the whole team as much as the Danish “striker”….)
Vela: More playing and less acting and maybe the stonewall penalty might’ve gone differently. The CL needs restructuring, starting with its amateur referees (5 per match). That should’ve been the result (given that Nasri was on, instead of Cesc, to take the Pen) and the sense of woe would not be so comprehensive and my main Mexican would be on the upswing. Too bad it WAS a dive (as well as a Pen) and given that he can only call one or the other, the ref chose the former, though he might’ve consulted with his mates….
Who else?…
Cesc: I think he said it all with the hand gestures after stretching for a(nother) ball he couldn’t get: “Get me outta here”….
Theo: …..
The chorus: (Sicky, Denilson, Wilshere): “Iook at me, I can dribble, I can pass, but I don’t shoot (that’s Bendy’s job and he just stepped on my foot….) and, wait a sec, they’ve got the ball, wait a sec, they just scored, oh crap, wait a sec they just scored again, and what’s that? Our flight is delayed because of a National strike?….
Finally, AW: “No, No…There was no knock on from the previous match”….
Not exactly an unexpected result, to be honest.
Arsenal’s record in Portugal mirrors that of Ukraine – no wins in the CL.
We should at least draw, but this team is not programmed that way.
We should beat Partizan at home (with the first team) and get through, but yes, the pressure has increased much more than we would have liked to.
we SHOULD beat Partizan.
but the pressure is now MONUMENTAL.
A draw or loss could be CATASTROPHIC, especially to the club and board, not to mention the little bit of belief left in the squad.
I just read the Guardian match report and there’s a (rather snide) remark about maybe drawing Spurs in the first elimination round….Has the stipulation about avoiding teams from the same country (in the round of 16) been dropped?
I figure Nip would know….
And Mr. 133 is correct…Nothing but pressure on a team after the last two results. Wigan (CC) and Partizan (CL) are both “must wins” (in front of the hostile “highest paying” home crowd), not too mention home league matches with Fulham and Stoke, before Xmas….
Fortunately we’ve stockpiled enough points that the tough trips to Villa and United aren’t equally massive….
Oh, wait a minute…..
No, we can’t face another English team in the round of 16.
If we come second (more likely), we will face one of Inter, Lyon/Schalke, Real, Barca or Bayern.
If we come first (less likely), we will face one of Inter, Lyon/Schalke, Valencia, Copenhagen, Roma, Marseille, or Milan.
http://wrighty7.blogspot.com/2010/11/invincibles-would-have-gone-two-seasons.html
That was terrible absolutely terrible, we played with no passion until we were one nil down.
We deserved to lose, not because they outplayed us because we showed no desire. The likes of Bendtner who had plenty rest should have shown some desires and hunger in an attempt to show why he should be playing.
I think we thought we were going to cruise to victory like we thought we would in the 2nd half against the Spuds.
Still think we will get through the group though but our form is pitiful and if we do not regain confidence soon we will suffer like never before.
The referee was terrible today really poor, but the penalty that was not given is not a big enough excuse in my opinion.
It makes me think what will life be like without Fabregas next season :shock:
we’ll be playing for 4th place without Cesc, just like this season, but the Arsenal FC, PLC Inc. will have about 25Million GBP in their pockets, so all will be well… (for some)
no fear… one draw against Partizan, and the board will go crazy because we’ll lose out on all the CL money from the next round.
Maybe then they’ll put some pressure on Arsene.
Throw another water bottle Arsene, that’ll show’em.
We may compete for fourth place, but on this kind of form I am not sure if we will have a realistic chance to get it without Cesc.
how can you say such a thing Arthur?
Cesc has not played well recently, his heart isn’t in it, and he has Barca DNA.
He would not be such a great loss, if we actually spent the money to replace him with REAL replacment, and then a few more talented players.
Why the doom and gloom?
We have the depth, and the players have come so far from last year… they get it now… a year older, more experienced, passionate, talented…
bleh.
Cesc is our best player, even when he isn’t playing well and handling the ball in the penalty area he is important to us.
Cesc in good form is one of the most creative CMs in the world, money cannot buy us that. We cannot afford to buy another player of that quality.
Stag you think money is the answer to everything, it simply is not so simple. I give you £35 mill who do you buy? Can he give us what Cesc gives us? then realistically tell me if that player would want to come to Arsenal.
Never thought I would say this Arthur, but I have to agree with Stag on this one. Cesc has only had 1 decent game for us this year. We wont miss him because he had done nothing so far to be missed except complain to Refs, demand cards and sending offs, and playing GK while in the wall.
While we have gained steel, we have shown a total lack of passion, urgency and creativity while getting an historic amount of red and yellow cards.
64% possession and only one real chance at goal which the ref botched. Our guys can’t hit an aircraft carrier from 15 yards out much less the goal.
NB is playing in the MF and the wing so when a ball is crossed into the area no one is there. Walcott’s lost football brain has yet to return even though he has been receiving psychiatric treatment from Hansen.
An outright terrible performance.
Cesc is our best player based on last year’s form.
When he’s in the line up, I see him as a liability to our attack (this season). This model of Cesc is not mobile nor mentally up for the captaincy.
Everyone on the team tries to get the ball to him instead of taking the initiative.
When he went off……our energy to attack with urgency peaked with others taking responsibility / decision making…..imo
Jack was terrific, when Cesc went off late in the match….but up till then, he had made far too many poor passes.
Theo seemed rooted to his spot on the right wing. Not sure if Bendtner deserves all this criticism; if your midfield is struggling to maintain possession – (they played 5 in the midfield) Bendtner was not going to get any service and didn’t.
Wenger should have taken Theo off instead of Bendtner. If you’re plan B is to launch route 1 balls up to the front line……why not have Bendtner up there with Chamakh.
CK, as I said even when Cesc isn’t playing well he is important to us. Just look at the Spuds game in the first half who set up both goals, who was providing defence splitting passes.
There has only been one game this season that he has played so poorly that it would have been better he stayed on bench.
But his form has very little to do with the point I was trying to make.
The point was that without Cesc we will be a weaker outfit.
I do not think Cesc poor form has antything to do with Barcalona… yet. He doesn’t seem to play well after playing throughout the summer. If you look at his performace after Euro 08 the same lethargic displays as now post WC…
But hey still one heck of a player.
In the past I would have agreed with you Arthur, but it’s not the old Cesc I see out there on the pitch now, even when he was not at his best.
I see someone who is becoming a chronic complainer, suddenly developed bad tackling habits, missing passes he would have made blindfolded in the past, not very celebratory even when we score and possessing an overall sullen demeanor.
The only two facts in life are DEATH and the certainty that noting remains the same. I refuse to get drawn into discussing the reason why he is different this season, but he is, and it’s on the negative side.
Did he feel jilted by Barca because of their low ball offer?
Did he feel betrayed by his boss, Arsene?
Who the fuck knows.
I really don’t know or care. I am not condemning him, but rather making a factual observation.
@ Carib:
Even with Cesc’s alleged “poor form” he is still doing stuff that would grace any team in Europe.
As you may know, I am a central midfield “fetishist” and I always pay close attention to the midfield battles, ebbs and flows and overall rythm.
Take that pass he made for Chamakhs second goal against Wolves. Most people dont give a second glance but it was a simple and fantastic ball. In my two decades of following the European game I can tell you that maybe 6 or 7 players can do that regularly. And so far he is the ONLY one who has done it in England.
Iniesta, Xavi and Schnejder wont survive England.
I think what people look at as poor form is an increased impatience/frustration with the team (teammates not being on the same wavelength, not trying hard enough, not tracking their man, etc). It might also be the realization that he wont win anything with the team.
Ah well, you’ll really notice it well when it when he is gone.
It. Is obvious to most Cesc is not playing at his optimal. He simply does not give the ball away so much when he is in good form.
I doubt that the Barca saga has turned his head as i think he would love to go out on a high as he genuinely loves Arsenal. Neither would i be so foolish ;-) to believe his lack of confidence in his team mates would be the cause of his errant passes. I stick by the presumption that the fatigue inspired by the world cup and of course the hamstring injury we now know he has been carrying has robbed us of the Cesc that should be well on his way to 15+ goals this season.
All quite irrelevant really considering our best player is out
For month or more. :shock:
Oouch! Perhaps there’s parity in the CL too? ;-)
How’s that depth looking? You’ve gotta start wondering whether we’e progressed at all even from the low base last season.
You’ll note that RVP, who some perceive as our MVP was nowhere to be seen, as usual. He’s ‘over’ his injury but…. recovering from an injury and being useful on the field are two quite different stages. Sooner of later you’ve got to accept the impact carrying this guy (and his like) at the expense of signing a replacement is having year after year.
I presume Wenger thought this is only Braga we need not risk RVP or Chamankh or Song.
A big mistake in retrospect.
The team he put out there, in theory, should have had little trouble getting a draw against Braga.
I don’t think the line-up was too bad, in that they are what they are…
just not good enough.
You can’t play the same players all the time, and we have so much depth (according to the masses on here)… we’ve matured, we’re just so close to greatness.
utter non-sense.
Not sure about close to greatness I think everyone on here knows we are at least a GK short of that.
But there is no denying the maturing of some of our reserve/2nd string players and players like Nasri, Walcott was always going to improve.
Bendtner seems to have stood still. Fabregas is in relatively poor form similar to when he came back from his Euro triumph and of course we lack consistency as some many are returning from injury.
“The team he put out there, in theory, should have had little trouble getting a draw against Braga” The team we put out ther bar Bendtner is more than capable of getting a victory angainst Braga. The attitude and I presume the tactics were wrong.
It is not the depth that is the problem it is attitude and application.
You only need to watch the reservess to know that we have a greater depth than before.
After re-reading your comment I wonder if you are taking a Monger-like pleasure from our defeat Kiwi?
yes, you are right. the reserves show how much great depth we have… we’re amazing.
just tell that to everyone we play, because its not really catching on.
do you think Partizan will be afraid?
they have absolutely nothing to lose…
if Wenger were so confident in the squad, he’d trot out the B-team next in the final CL game…
see what the kids can do!
Stag stop bitching it all you ever seem to do.
What has our squad depth got to do with this defeat?
You said yourself the team we put out there was good enough for a draw gainst Braga.
Who is talking about amazing?
4 losses in 6 matches.
Arsenal are one draw against Partizan Belgrade away from being OUT OF THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE.
Braga could win their final game, and if we draw or lose, we are OUT of the CL…
amazing.
There is no easy game for Arsenal.
And if we get a bad bounce… a bad call (like today’s non-penalty call)
or a fluke goal by Partizan, we could be playing in the UEFA Cup, or whatever they are calling it this week.
Cesc off injured?
yeah, we’re real contenders for trophies.
have a laugh Arsene.
Wow GDC is empty – except for me.
not worth the time, frankly.
Starting XI:
Fabianski, Squillaci, Djourou, Eboue, Gibbs, Fabregas, Rosicky, Walcott, Denilson, Wilshere, Bendtner
Don’t think I’ll be able to catch the game but we’ll see. Hopefully the players don’t have too much of a hangover from the derby, unlike me.
small correction: A win doesnt guarantee us topping the group outright – except Shaktar lose to Partizan.
The weekend game is still on my mind so I can’t care too much about today’s game but I will still watch it. I just hope it is worth it for driving through awful icy slippery roads and the heartwarming temperature of -35 deg c. It has been a years since people have been talking about this team learning from its mistakes but they don’t seem to. I thought blowing a 4-2 home lead against Spurs should have been the low point but clearly it wasn’t. I think maybe everytime the team losses, they should be forced to stand out in -30 deg c conditions. That might force them to focus. Or shockingly they need a boot thrown at them by the manager. But knowing this bunch, anything but polite encouragement might be a cue to complain. Or Arsenal need to hire Keown to do the harsh talk that Wenger can’t. Maybe Wenger and Keown can play good cop, bad cop :)
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In other Arsenal news Aaron Ramsey played for 45 minutes today in a reserve match against Wolves.
In less noteworthy news – so did Manuel Almunia.