Frustrated? No. Disappointed? Yes. Post Champion’s League Thoughts.
He made a proper Messi of things.
In 2007-2008 Gooners I was delighted to see Arsenal take jump at the season and pretty much contro things heading into February. I was dismayed tha after the horrendus events of that match-day in Birmingham, Arsenal’s season, one of so much promise faded quicker than it had started.
Last season, Arsenal completely frustrated me as we never got out of the chute and were out of it before we were even in it. The only saving grace were semi-final appearances in the FA Cup and the Champion’s League – if you call those saving graces.
This season, I did not know what to expect. Would it be the ugly beast of the previous season? Or would a more matured brand of football rear its head. There wasn’t much movement in terms of transfers. Optimism rode high from the offices of the Emirates. Not so much through the homes of the Gunner’s faithful.
But the optimism seemed well founded. Even after losing to City and United the Gunners were still at threat and taking care of the opposition they faced. The season though has gone horribly wrong. Not because we are still fighting for a league title but because the team is ending its season on 1 good leg – if that.
Last night I watched the complete dismantling of a good Arsenal side by a great Barcelona team. The movement off the ball, the attack to get the ball back when it was lost and the skillful elegance of the best player in the world – some guy named Messi, you may have heard of him was astounding.
I’m not sure we ever had a chance. Sure we scored first and sure thing if Diaby hits Walcott on the right intead of passing to Bendtner on the left, and had Theo scored – it could’ve been a different game. But it wasn’t. Arsenal got played off the field. I don’t think there are any teams that can handle this Barca side so overall I say no shame in going out to a team like that.
The game was lost in my opinion before we took the field and word was that Alex Song was not playing. Song did an outstanding job last week handcuffing Messi. While Song is improved and improving he showed why he was Arsenal’s most improved player this season by limiting the path the little man had. Without him the squad, Arsenal could not contain Messi and he had his way with a make shift defence.
Barca also adjusted very well to this Arsenal squads potential threats. Maxwell didn’t start and the defenders played deeper off of Walcott negating his speed effect. The size of Bendtner and Diaby was negated by no less than 3 players crowding them out as they had the ball. They weren’t losing the ball so much as they were having it taken away from them when pressured. They also did a good job of pressing Nasri out of the midfield.
Throw all of that in with a clinic on how an attacking squad should hold the ball up from their opposition and the night was over after the first Messi goal. Sure they started better and the chances that Barca did have weren’t nearly as good as they had last week. Frankly, I am of the mind I would’ve preferred a frentic start to get Almunia engaged early and at his intinctive best.
Overall though I think what I really want to say, is I am not frustrated we did not win and this another trophy we won’t have. It doesn’t come from some kool-aid drinking notion of the love for Arsenal. It’s from a realistic view that Arsenal have delivered more this year than they should have or were expected to.
The litany of injuries of first team stars and key players is well known. If any other team had as much talent out on the bench would they
Dejected
be doing so well? Everton which have a very talented squad have gotten better because they have healed. Their early season woes were directly because of their own early injury problems. Still with all the injuries Arsenal are competing day in and day out. Yes, there are off games, but they are still gaining results. Who cares when they come, they come and it keeps them going as the little engine that could.
I am disappointed more for the fact that a squad that has worked so hard, a manager that has worked so hard to keep it together, and a fan base that deserves a Champion may not get one this year. And its not because of wrong policies or not spending money, or the age of the squad or paying off debt. It is because the size of the injuries deprived this team of much of its talent for a good portion of the season. this is not an excuse – it is a fact. United cannot overcome the loss of Rooney as they’ve shown. If Drogba were out for an extended period of time Chelsea likely wouldn’t handle it (the ACoN doesn’t count – because most of the matches he was out were cancelled because of snow). It happens and teams have to overcome – in my mind we have. It is why we are still fighting for a league title.
I am disappointed because I loved the atmosphere and pride that being in that match meant to the fans. Whether it was the rabid Gooner nation on Twitter or the fans at Nevada Smith’s yesterday. It was a great thing to see and experience.
The phrase wait till next season is to early to use right now and frankly I hate it because I always get so caught up in this season. But I am looking forward to next season, when there are new signings (Chamakh and Jerome Boateng anyone?) and bodies are healed. There are never any guarantees but I would suspect that a healthier Arsenal squad will do much better than one that is held together by band-aids and tape.
We got beat by a better team and I bow down to the football man that is Lionel Messi. What a stunning performance. Did anyone else on that team even have a shot on goal? So I am going to turn my attention to the remaining league games., think about the arrival of St. Totteringham’s day and let this go back and wistfully think about what could’ve been this season.
Cheers. DAG
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I am not really fantastic with English but I line up this really leisurely to interpret.
sometimes it just feels good though
On hearing Song is out, the line-up becomes a bit underwhelming – take out Arshavin, Fabregas & Song and you take out a lot of quality. No idea how it will go. Perhaps Spurs will be worse off than we are. Another site suggested Nasri and Rosicky swapping positions. So Nasri would play in the wide forward role and Rosicky more in midfield in Fab’s role. On reflection that may be a good idea for both – won’t hurt – and we should be fluid enough and clever enough to swap it if it isn’t effective.
Rosicky, Bendtner, Walcott
Diaby, Denilson, Nasri
Clichy, Verme, Campbell, Sagna
Almunia
the bench? Eboue, Silvestre, Eduardo, RvP…
It’s a derby, so form becomes secondary, it’s about who creates and wins the events. I’m picking Bendtner to score, maybe Walcott. This is a big English derby game, so a lad like Theo would feel the intensity, be energised by it, better than the rest of his international team mates, he should be ‘up for it’ as they say. This may be a game where he should start – although you know, it’s a risk but we don’t have a lot of choice, or none to be precise other than press-ganging a right back or a crocked forward.
I’d still go with Eboue. I see your point about Theo feeling the intensity. It’s also that same intensity/drama that has caused Eboue to do stupid stuff in the past. So I guess it’s not the end of the world for me if Theo starts, but I’d still prefer Eboue. Theo has shown time and again he ain’t that good starting- but he can be quite excellent when coming on at 60′ or so.
CG, I’ve argued the same rationale on Theo and why he should be a sub, so in essence I agree.
The issue for me here is if we play Eboue over Walcott I fear we’ll be a bit blunt. It would mean Bendtner was the only attacker in the line-up and that seems a bit rough to me.
Maybe we should start with RvP ( ;-) ), and bring Walcott and Eboue on late.
I have to say, the Walcott/Eboue sub double act worked pretty nicely recently.
I really hope we don’t use RVP. Or should I say, I hope we don’t NEED to use him. Because if we need to, we will. He definitely won’t start, but if we need to sharpen the attack late on, there will be no choice but to use him
Sure, if he plays and gets hurt then he’s no use to us the rest of the 4 games. But if we don’t use him and lose, then those 4 games themselves become meaningless.
“Some people are specialists at making players unhappy. I cannot stop them talking in Spain. But all of the players who have left here wanted to return.”
____________________________
On ya Arsene, another classic quote.
There’s no doubt that Arsenal are a special club and I doubt you’d find a single ex-player to refute that. Even for the recent ‘premature’ leavers, the likes of Adebayor, Hleb and Flamini, we’ve heard Hleb expressing his regret and it’s not hard to see why, Barca bit-part and now back to where he started. Flamini hasn’t exactly set the world on fire at AC Milan and one wonders if he has the wherewithal to ever do so at that club. Adebayor? Well, let’s just wait and see. Too early to make any grand statements on Ade.
Then there’s the players that Arsene ‘let go’. The Vieira’s, Pires, Henry’s, and Toure’s. I’d imagine ideally Arsene would like to keep all his boys until they retire, ala Bergkamp & Adams, yet even the romantic Arsene understands that life isn’t that straight forward. Wear and tear on their bodies, a refusal to accept a lesser role/wages, and the players own competing motivations and aspirations mean that most will move on in their later years – no harm in that.
But the real application of this truth at this time is for Fabregas. Chillax folks, he ain’t moving unless his earth moves – which is unlikely. He’d be a luxury at Barca at this point in time and I can’t see that being attractive to either Pep or the player. As for the future…. we have no idea how it will all pan out. Barcelona today look like the mecca of football, yet I’ve followed football long enough to know that things change very fast – forever is about 3 seasons.
Nothing stays the same everything is in a constant state of change – the ebbs and flows. So, even in say 3 years when perhaps Fabregas may seem a more proper and needed fit at Barcelona, who knows what state they’ll be in and what state this Arsenal team will be in? This Barcelona era may be waning and a new Arsenal one exploding. Sure, I accept Fabregas will likely return to Barca at some stage – but who’s to know when?
Good points about an ever changing world. I do believe we are at the ground floor of something in historic proportions for the club.
Regardless of our finish, there are signs Arsenal are making strides. I’m really excited about Ramsey and Wilshere – these two provide grit and determination (a fighting spirit that is sometimes shortchanged by this roster.
Hope you’re right, we need something to celebrate :-)
I was happy with Ramsey’s progress too, although I’m gutted about his injury. It just places questionmarks that no-one wants. After the long winding road Diaby has taken and the state of Eduardo you’ve got to be a little reserved.
I agree with you though, the British boys seem to have a toughness, you can see it in Wilshere too.
Overall this season a number of the lads now look like men and that’s a good thing. Fabregas, Song, Diaby, Bendtner – they now look more comfortable in the EPL in every sense.
Yes, Chelsea got it done 1-0.
But I can see Tottenham AND Liverpool, possibly taking points from them.
The chance exists. We just have to execute and do our part
tomorrow, to keep the pressure on.
We can get 2nd place… and that’s better than 3rd, and I think
you get more money for that finish as well.
Nice attempt by Bolton – two clear hand balls not called but ah well. OZi is right Jack was very good. HE has a bit of that English edge to him – if you will.
And I agree with Ozi – if Chelsea come out like this again – they will drop points.
Bolton put up quite a fight. Unlucky not to get at least one penalty. Our boy Wilshere was a constant thorn in their side. Was especially impressed with his work-rate and willingness to press and try tackle the Chelsea defenders/mids. I expect Bolton to do quite well next season. A bit more of an attacking edge and a proper pre-season under Coyle should do them a world of good.
As for Chelsea, if they play like this again it is quite feasible that they drop points. We need to keep the pressure up on them.
I know Fred’s list represents an extreme, but for the sake of discussion I’ll throw my two cents in. I don’t believe that we need to take a hatchet to the squad. With respect to the players mentioned above, I’d say the younger ones – Walcott, Vela, & Traore – need more time. Silvestre should be told he can go. He is Arsene’s most pointless signing ever and isn’t going to help us win anything. Almunia should be our backup keeper. As for Rosicky, I had very high hopes when he arrived, but his injuries have slowed him a step. However, he’s got experience and I think he is effective against 80% of the EPL competition. He can step in, do a job, and give a player a rest. It’s similar with Eboue. You don’t want him starting against Barca in the 1/4 finals of the CL, but he can do a job against the likes of Bolton and Blackburn. I’m not sure what you do with Eduardo, Denilson, and Fabianski at this point. Denilson and Fabianski do still have a lot of growth ahead of them, but I think we could fairly easily bring in or promote others that would be more effective. Eduardo does not seem the same player we bought, but it’s hard to tell if it’s the injury or if he just needs more games.
I don’t know exactly who we should bring in. If Chamakh is really coming then maybe him, a goalkeeper, and a centerback and/or defensive central midfield player. Having said that, it may take some patience to find quality players in those positions that are available. They are hard to come by.
I still think we are a couple years away from seeing Arsene’s youth “project” come to fruition and take us back to the top of the table. However, I do feel that we are getting closer while still having plenty of room to grow. With two more years and three to four more successful signings, this team will be very good.
Not sure why anyone would expect 3 or 4 signings… its not realistic. I can’t remember that happening with Wenger… he doesn’t do wholesale changes, and especially when we could WIN the LEAGUE, and are in a position to get second.
So, not seeing that happening.
If its Chamakh coming in, I can see maybe one more player in.
Not sure where or who… I doubt it will be a keeper, as Almunia is one Wenger likes.
But it will be an interesting off-season, and if you want signings and changes, it will be another frustrating Summer.
If we can sell a few players, and promote from within with youth, I think we can make some money in the Summer, and get a bit younger and better.
Hmmm, the contrary is actually true.
Arsene NOT buying 3-4 players is the exception.
Do your homework.
Fred’s list of “to sell” players is just great!
if we sold all those players… we’d only be able to start about 9 guys mid-way thru the season… with our record for injuries!
But if we could off-load a few of them… for a decent price, its all
good for the bottom line.
Sagna is drawing interest from Barcelona and Inter Milan.
I am sure he’d get a fair amount in a sale. He is easily one of
our best and most consistent players.
At 27 though, he might be on his down side! LOL!
I mean everyone over 25 is on his way down…
It will be another wild off-season with most players in our team
linked with some other team… just hope Wenger and the board continue
with the shrewd business.
BUT…
step one tomorrow… with 5 MASSIVE games left.
RVP back for the final 5… and maybe he can contribute a goal or
two along the run in.
Goal.com is reporting that Arsene will have from $30 mil to $45 mil to spend this summer.
Sale of Highbury properties a big reason for surplus profits.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/
I guess for those that want to see 1/3 of the team sent packing, there is hope.
Oh and seeing as nobody’s mentioned it yet, we beat them tomorrow and we’ll be celebrating St Totteringham’s day.. Again!! :D
Like DannyT says, if we beat Spurs tomorrow, they will be so downcast, Chelsea will probably roll over them on Sat.
And how come Chelsea play Sat, Tue and Sat, while Spurs have to play Sun, Wed and Sat? Even Arsenal play Wed and Sun.
I reckon the only solution is to smash them about 15-0. And see that shock em into a combative performance against the Chav’s. That also simultaneously sees our GD possibly able to win it for us. I’m a genius!!!
Lame jokes aside, Danny does have a point. But then we just have to win and hope spuds find a way to pick themselves up. Don’t really have any other choice do we? Plus it’s spuds. It’s ALMOST a win-win irregardless of whether they manage to get something from the Chavs or not.
“And how come Chelsea play Sat, Tue and Sat, while Spurs have to play Sun, Wed and Sat? Even Arsenal play Wed and Sun.” – On one level I feel bad for them. But then I remember the abuse they have put on Sol and that they think that their squad is better than ours and that leads me to just laugh at them.
BBC “understands” that RvP would be in the squad for the Spurs game.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8615796.stm
Another case of playing an injured player too early and facing the consequences?
Or Arsene’s master plan to ensure RvP misses the WC?
This summer, like summers before I would again dream of Wenger being RUTHLESS with his team for once. And by ruthless, I mean getting rid of dead weight and people who dont contribute for various reasons. A lot of it is really rehashed stuff really.
SELL: Rosicky, Eduardo, Walcott, Eboue, Denilson, Almunia, Silvestre, Vela, Fabianski and Traore.
RvP spared just for talent alone. Personally, I would purge them BEFORE buying anybody. They are not all bad people … its just that their injury record, playing style or lack of talent is not directly suitable for Arsenal at this point. Just getting rid of them alone is like throwing weight off a sinking ship. It gets rid of our illusion of depth. I believe for those 10 we can get 30 million … especially off Walcott!
EXTEND CONTRACT: Gallas, Merida. Campbell for one more year but as the FIFTH CB not as the fourth.
BUY: One DM, One CB, One GK, THREE forwards.
— One solid, 22 yr old French African DM to rotate with Song.
— One solid young CB to serve as Gallas/Verm backup and sit on the bench with Djorou. Campbell serves as the fifth elderly CB who hardly plays but is a good resource for the kids and can always act as a competent stop gap.
— One top, top class goalkeeper. The polish kid and Mannone can be his backup.
— Chamakh plus TWO fast and direct winger types – Walcott-with-brains if you would.
————————————
My dream team for next season:
GK: New Super Goalie, Wocjiech (2nd choice), Mannone (3rd choice)
LB: Clichy, Gibbs, Botelho
CB: Gallas, Vermaelen, New CB, Djorou, Campbell
RB: Sagna, Bartley, Ayling
DM: Song, New DM, Eastmond
CM: Nasri, Diaby, Merida
AM: Fabregas, Wilshere, Merida
LW: Arshavin, Fast-and-Direct Walcott-with-Brains type
RW: Van Persie, Fast-and-Direct Walcott-with-Brains type
ST: Bendtner, Chamakh
Everybody listed first being the nominal first choice, but with intelligent rotations to keep people fresh and to make sure there is a fire under everybody’s ass.
Will Arshavin be “lazy” if a serious up and coming 22 year old with brains and ambition is behind him?
Will Bendtner improve if he knows Chamakh would take his position if he fucks up?
Will Song up his game if he has to compete with another DM rather than a nonentity like Denilson?
The answer to all those is YES.
The most important for me though is that Nasri AND Fabregas play together in midfield.
————————————–
Ofcourse I no it wont happen … but one can only dream of a day when Arsenal is no longer a freaking charity for mediocre or otherwise unfortunate players.
Mate I reckon we’d get a pretty penny more than 30mil if we were to get rid of that list of players. Unless you’re factoring in the cash we’d have to give to the ‘buying’ club for Manny and Silvestre.
I don’t agree with the list though. It’s too many people and that kind of upheaval would settle the squad a bit too much. Plus I think some of those players serve as good squad options:
Eboue is as good a backup RB as we can hope (I think the only backup RBs in the league I’d take over him are Ivanovic, Belletti at Chelsea and maybe Rafael at Utd). Bartley’s got a looong way to go from the little I’ve seen of him.
I’m okay with Traore as 3rd choice LB.
I think Vela deserves a Walcott/Denilson like chance before we simply discard him.
I reckon Rosicky and Theo are decent enough backups and serve as squad options. Though you’re right in that their injury records does merit consideration, but then that goes for pretty much the whole squad as a whole.
ps- nasri for some reason has never been played in CM with Cesc and I don’t think Wenger’s about to change that.
Agree on the competitions spurring our players on sentiments.
CB- Been hearing rumours about Cisocko or however you spell his name. Only seen him play a couple of times and that’s nowhere enough to judge his quality but I do hope that whoever we get has got that athleticism about them. Recovery pace to scare any attacker.
I have always felt that Cesc + Nasri + a strong DM is the ideal midfield combo for Arsenal. In fact, Cesc should play the withdrawn midfielder (like Pep Guardiola) and Nasri should be the more advanced midfielder.
Arsene has been ultra reluctant to do that. Maybe he feels that we need Diaby’s physicality in midfield. Although, it has never stopped Arsene from playing Deni alongside Song and Cesc.
A lot of blogs are seemingly coming around to “Guardiola for Arsenal”.
I personally wont mind at all. Partner him up with Dennis Bergkamp and Steve Bould as his two assistants. Bould specializes in defense, Bergkamp in attack, Guardiola in the midfield engine. Dynamite!
The big positives about Guardiola: He is obviously committed to attacking football, extremely strong winning mentality and he is a ruthless guy. Arsenal players deserve a ruthless manager.
Both Guardiola’s and Wenger’s contracts end in 2011. Interesting!
Wenger can move up to “Director of Football” or can play the “David Dein role” or he can even be moved into the Arsenal CEO position. He has an Economic masters, he can do whatever he wants.
“he can do whatever he wants.”
He isn’t doing that already? ;)
I think we are all losing the plot here. Arsene went out of his way to sign all of his first squad players to long term contracts with the exception of Gallas, Merida and Silvestre.
What does this mean? He has faith in his current squad and does not want a rehash of Flamini. The only other player to fall in that mix is Senderos who can’t even get a game over Silvestre. I think he was messing with Arsene’s daughter and Le Professor found out.
As for the rest of the Arsenal squad who will be featuring in the WC, every team worth their salt has individual profiles already sticking up their wazoo.
Ironically, I don’t think there is any team on the planet who would pay over 1 Mill for Almunia, Denilson and Eduardo based on their current performances.
I see Silvestre and Senderos definitely leaving and Gallas and Merida as a tossup. My hunch is that Gallas will stay and Merida will depart for the Spanish fields so he can get some playing time.
Name the last Arsenal player to sign a new contract in his last six months and NOT leave on a free. Only Bergkamp comes to mind and he was a special case.
Edu, Wiltord, Kanu, Pires, Flamini all left. I don’t see Gallas being any different.
Gallas will want a first team spot and a good salary. I doubt Arsene can offer him both, definitely not the second one.
Wenger f$cks around with Denilson yet is upset when Sendy fools around with his daughter?! ;-)
Hypocritical bastard! :-D
Interesting record Nipuna. It’s grim really. When you think that for the last 3 years in the clutch we moan like girls about our injury problems….. what happens next season?
Here’s my list of Arsenal players at the WC.
Front 3: RvP, Bendtner, Nasri, Walcott, Vela
Mid 3: Fabregas, Song, Diaby
Back 4: Gallas, Clichy, Sagna, Eboue, Senderos, Djourou
Of the ones staying at home only Arshavin and Vermaelen are significant contributors. After that you have Eduardo, Rosicky and Denilson, none of whom you’d back as core in a title challenging squad.
So there you go, a tad sobering isn’t it?????????????????
Upside: Senderos might impress and get sold.
Outside chances: RvP and Walcott impress and get sold for big transfer fees. :-)
Downsides: general fatigue and injury
I’d say that the other good teams, have equally as many players in the WC… so the same problems will occur for them as well.
No real disadvantage… as I see it.
Might make next season even MORE wide open!
If that’s possible.
Nah, if that were true they’d flump like we do at the end of the season. Yet Nipuna’s stat’s reference to the placings indicate they don’t flump – we do. So we have a great sensitivity to the negative impact. This is simple for everyone to fathom…. our squad is smaller than others, we carry more crocks, and have more young players who quite simply seem to incur more injuries.
that’s negative… we’ve been a bit unlucky with injuries, but Chelsea and United will DEFINITELY feel the same impact that we do from the WC.
As the official “thought Police” I resent that remark.
Negativity is welcome. Just be prepared to be slammed. And I say that because I can be as negative as the rest
Yeah, how DARE you be negative! This site is for positive posts and positive posters only. Shape up or the thought police will boot you out of here.
“we have some young players that seem to incur more injuries”
BUT then lets exam our competition whose starting line-up’s don’t have so many youngsters.
As these OLDER players would seem to qualify as injury prone over the past 2 years: Joe Cole, Essien, Botswinga,
Berbatov, Gerrard, J. Carrick, Ferdinand, A. Cole, Deco, Vidic, Giggs, Van Der Sar, Cech, I’ll leave off Rooney & Torres cause their youngsters.
“Nah, if that were true they’d flump like we do at the end of the season”
ManU’s finish this year – another charge to the title?
What did Chelsea do last 3 seasons in league play?
Since we have not won any titles in recent years, NO ONE ON THE ROSTER IS CORE TO WINNING ANYTHING – except ARSENE.
You forgot to mention the Arsenal GK’s that will be at the– what’s that you say? Oh, right… I see.
Ooh, shit. I shouldn’t have said that… it’s negative. We aren’t allowed to be negative, you know. The thought police will surely have it in for me now!!
The WC/Euro is a major cause for fatigue. Arsenal will have a lot of players coming in late because of the tournament. Therefore, they will not getting a proper pre-season. Add to that our injuries woes and the fact that we have a compact squad with too many young players. Result – post WC/Euro seasons have tended to be very flat.
Since 98-99, Arsenal have been competitive in only two post WC/Euro seasons – 98-99 itself and 02-03. Every other season, we have simply not been in the running. All the more pressure to win something this year.
08-09 -> 18 points off the top (4th place)
06-07 -> 21 points off the top (4th place)
04-05 -> 12 points off the top (2nd place)
02-03 -> 5 points off the top (2nd place)
00-01 -> 10 points off the top (2nd place)
98-99 -> 1 point off the top (2nd place)
More boardroom stuff afoot.
Kroenke is on the cusp, Jabba is rather quiet, Lady Bracewell-Smith is making noises. Where art thou David Dein in all this?
Let’s set out a couple of things that long termers will understand. Dein is not just any ole ex-Deputy Chairman of Arsenal FC, ex-Chairman of G-14, the founder and friend of AW, he’s also a deeply dedicated Arsenal fan. Others may have got the hump and left with a desire to reinvent themselves elsewhere, maybe even harbouring spite towards the club. Not Dein I think. Entrepreneurial, politically savvy, connected at the highest levels, well versed in football club management, Arsene’s friend, and all with a fans passion – not the normal board member by a long shot. I expect to see him reappear. Quite how I don’t know – there is a lot that could happen behind the scenes.
His adversary is reining Chairman Peter Hillwood. Some dismiss him as an aristocratic old fool, yet to me as a long-time observer that’s a tad dangerous. This guy knows how to work the boardroom and is backed by Danny Fiszman who has for a quite a while been the most influential shareholder. So the two are still in the Arsenal ring, Hillwood v Dein. Yet I get the sense Dein may ultimately outlast and outmanoeuvre Hillwood/Fiszman. Hillwood is 74, Fiszman is reported to be seriously ill and has reduced his shareholding to 16.1% which means other owners have comparable influence – in shares where it ultimately will count.
So watch this space. I’ve made it no secret that I think we miss Dein in many ways, some high profile (like G14 connections) and others unseen (like friend of Wenger). He acted as a real link between the owners/board/executive/team management/players – we miss that.
we know and understand far far less about the board and what’s possibly going on … or could happen… or who’s aligned … or what anyone’s intention is…
than we do about the team, the players, and the manager!
It’s interesting to see how it plays out, but what is REALLY going on, is anybody’s guess… until someone “busts a move”!
I’d still love to see Kroenke take the reigns, and have us train in America!
:)
…shouldn’t stop us having the ocassional discussion about it.
As we have seen in the case of our rivals, the ownership/leadership can have a telling impact on the clubs fortunes.
Not sure about Stan, he seems a pretty stand-off owner. Might be even more years in the desert…. :-(
more years in the BLACK… making profit… is the goal.
if he can continue that run of profitability, and Top 4 finishes… that’s all we need.
I am looking forward to the WC, and the silly season of the Summer
that will follow… frankly, its fun… and if you look at it
in terms of an opportunity for the club to make money, then its exciting.
You can get your draws in a twisted bunch fretting about Cescy, but…
it is going to amplify to the Nth degree over the Summer and WC.
There will be Madrid, City, and maybe Barcelona coming knocking…
wild speculation, innuendo, hyperbole, and craziness.
I love it. Its a win win for the club any way you slice it…
…or perhaps AW is Moses and will never see the promised land. Where’s our Joshua? ;-)
I don’t really think there is any conspiracy happening. If anything, Arsene would probably rather not have his boys in the shop window of the WC at all. Undoubtedly such tournaments do showcase football to the wider audience and as you say can direct supporters to the clubs of the players that star. However, they also result in injuries, slow starts and serious fatigue in the season that follows. The post-tourney flump factor really tests a squad like Arsenal – where we have a compact squad full of internationals. In Arsenal’s case the tournament also puts our young talent in the shop window for all to see. The club’s reputation (warranted or not) for developing gems then puts other clubs managers/executives/boards on high alert.
So on balance I think the downside outweighs the upside for Arsenal. Yet truth is for the players the WC is still mega – so for all the boys who will be going like Fabregas, Gallas, Nasri, et al getting there is mega, and it may even influence their better judgment. They may only get 1, 2 or 3 chances at this in their whole career. Take Robin, if rational thought ruled the guy would stay at home and get fit to repay the millions Arsenal pay him – yet that won’t happen. He’ll maybe have a couple of sub appearances during our critical run-in to test himself out a little and then join the Dutch squad. It’s absurd but it’s reality. Just another reason why I’m so dispassionate about the players.
FATIGUE. That’s a key problem … post-World Cup.
Usually the Summer is the time for players to recover a bit from the grind of the league.
But in a WC year, it actually KICKS UP a notch. The WC is the biggest tournamenet in the World. More pressure, tougher competition, and NO REST for the weary. Not mentally, or physically.
So… the start of the new season, could be tough for the players, and teams, who have the longest run in the WC.
Stevo, in years gone by, before most larger teams had acquired advanced scouting networks and before the internet and instant information and the saturation coverage of football the World Cup and the European Championship tournaments had a major impact on the transfer scene. They were THE shop window for clubs. Kind of like an expo for clubs who wanted to buy a player or even a star.
I think that has changed a lot. It isn’t what it was, and yet it can still be very significant for specific players and clubs.
If a player shines at the World Cup, the sheer focus and attention of the event means his performances receive ‘massively enhanced attention’. And yes his value is likely to increase significantly immediately after the event. Yet some managers, like George Graham, purposefully ignore players performances at international tournaments. They argue that it has little or no bearing on what that same player can/will do in the slog of a club season. And they’re right.
So, yes a string of impressive performances will alert and attract attention for specific players, yet these days it isn’t that hard for clubs to do quick due diligence to verify whether that same level is exhibited at club level.
Where it may have a real valuation impact is on a player who is on ‘the way up’, a guy who has a solid early career history and then really impresses at the WC. Perhaps a guy like Nasri might be an example. Nasri has a tidy CV with his early seasons at Marsaille and Arsenal – if he played a string of blinders at the WC the money-bags clubs might be really interested and be prepared to pay a top transfer fee.
Yet my overall feeling is that the influence of the big tournaments has waned markedly over the years. There was a time when it appeared as if most average-to big-clubs bought maybe 2-3 players after the WC. Not any more.
The WC has waned, definitely, not so b/c it has less exposure, but b/c everything else has much, much more. But int’l tournaments can still be places for diamonds in the rough to shine. Most familiar example to Arsenal fans would be Arshavin. Some football fans knew of him before Euro 08, but a lot didn’t. Nor was he linked to moves with clubs like us, or (as he was for awhile) Barcelona. Playing in the Russian league, he never got the kind of exposure he got at the Euro. So it can still happen, just not nearly as often I’d say.
So GG was the original Arsenal contrarian….very interesting….
Thanks for the perspective and obviously the (current) Arsenal French contigent (i.e., Nasri et al.) might be able to really shine at the WC…if Domenech has the guts to pick them and play them over some of the bigger names. (Domenech has mismanaged that bunch so badly that expectations are extremely low, so the potential for suprise glory is quite high…)
My thought re: Arsenal, is that we might be willing to sell some of our assets, if they “over-perform” at the WC if, as many here have said, we are, in essence, a “selling” club. It’s something I’ll be watching for, at the very least….
To take it a step further (or get back to my original WC question)….If, at the very highest level of European Club football, we are competing for the hearts and minds of would be club fans, the world over, with unprecedented television access who may get introduced to players at the WC…Is the Club, perhaps at the expense of our efforts this season, protecting players to be sure that they are healthy for South Africa, while trying to get others selected? It may seem a bit paranoid, I know, but I just wonder if it’s merely coincidence that ESTABLISHED int’l players like Fabregas, Gallas, and Van Persie are unavailable for our most important end of season matches (but will ALL play at the WC), while up and comers (Clichy, Diaby, Nasri, Bendtner, Walcott) get run outs that might impress their national coaches enough to get them called up. It’s almost as if there’s a willingness to have ’06-2010 be our “desert” years (and, gratefully, ten times less time than another group wandered in biblical times), but (after making their names at the WC) our young squad (if it be His will and we obey His commandments, etc.) will find the promised land before 2014, securing the legacy of He (who cannot be criticized?)…. all to the accolades of the millions of new Arsenal fans (worldwide and via TV, and if they happen to visit London…) who are lured in by our players’ exploits in South Africa…. I.e., another excuse to sacrifice the present for the future….
Just curious, and I guess there will be plenty of time to discuss the WC after these next few matches…
Thanks again…
“Arsenal have sold their “face of the club” on more than one occasion… have sold their Captain twice…”
_______________________________
That’s true but hardly a straight comparison. Those players were 29, and we’d squeezed a lot of juice from the lemon over the preceeding 8-9 years in both cases. Whilst both Vieira and Henry subsequently have enjoyed trophy success – Arsenal got their best years. Fabregas is different, he’s only entering his prime years, so to sell him would be a first. Yes it could happen, a 50m cash injection would be highly significant from a fiscal perspective, yet we’re not alone in facing these “cash-in v retain resource” posers. I’d pick he stays this summer unless his head gets really turned by Barcelona.
If we want to free up a bit of cash to pay down debt – why sell a resource like Fabregas that contributes a lot? Why not cut loose a few who are a net drain every year? Sell off Robin van Persie, Rosicky and Eduardo – we’d never feel it on the field but we’d get perhaps 25-30m in transfer fees and reduce our annual wage bill by 3 senior players. If you included Walcott you’d probably get close to the 50m you’d get for Cesc. Seriously if I was on the Board that’s what I would do. Players are resources – period. Why carry crocks out of sentiment.
I’ve tried to ask this basic question (of the more seasoned observers) a couple of times but I’ll try again….
What is the influence of the World Cup on player valuation?
I would think that a Club that is under pressure to “show ambition” would be highly motivated to buy some of the best performers from the World Cup, an event that is seen by gazillions worldwide, etc.
So, for example, let’s say Carlos Vela scores goals and Mexico beats France and maybe some other decent team in the round of 16…Is he suddenly worth a whole lot to a team like Real Madrid? Likewise, RVP for Holland or Theo for England or Bendtner for Denmark or even Song for Cameroon or Eboue for the IC? (Anybody else?)
Certainly it seems easier than actually scouting players over a long period of time and buying someone nobody’s heard of.
It seems to me that Ar$enal have their valuations (which might rise or fall slightly based on what happens in South Africa), but there could be, er, “inefficiencies” in the market which might be tempting.
Just my perspective…What do the sages say?
I know we WON’T BUY anybody because of what they do at the World Cup!
And we shouldn’t… but if our players do well, and it increases their value, that’s not a bad thing at all.
If you can make a good profit, and do some shrewd business, ALL GOOD.
Do it.
…that’s why I say hock off RvP, Eduardo, Rosicky and Walcott.
We lose nothing on-field, save a fortune in wages, and get a significant cash injection to pay down a portion of debt. All good. :-)
Head turned by Barcelona… ummm, yeah, like he didn’t watch them play us off the freakin’ pitch?
Thinking, I could be on the GIVING end of this football lesson, instead of the receiving end.
There is virtually ZERO debate that at some point he is going back to Spain.
If they offer 40 Million or more, I highly doubt Arsenal would pass it up. We SELL our best players, its FACT, we’re a selling team.
Its OK, we are what we are… and there isn’t anything wrong with it, when your goal is LONG-TERM, getting to the point where we can be a buying team.
Cesc WON’T be part of that equation, its years off.
Me, I am not too concerned about ONE PLAYER. He doesn’t make a team, and I’d be more concerned about selling off 3 or 4 players, because we don’t replace them, we never bring in more than 1 or 2.
Stop dreaming Stag, Arsene hasn’t fawned over Captain Fabregas to sell him for 40 or 50 million at age 22.
You’re letting your appetite for the extremist position blurr your judgment.
If it happened this summer it would only be because Cesc really really wants to go NOW. And he won’t. Where exactly would he play in this Barcelona team? Their midfield is set. He won’t play for Real…. and no one else counts.
No, actually Kiwi, it would be great business… that would be GREAT for the club.
Again, you don’t have to like it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true, or can’t happen.
Cesc won’t be sold in the off-season whether we get “crazy money” offers or not. It would be a PR nightmare as he is currently the face of the franchise.
Maybe 2-4 years down the line this might happen if we win a championship.
So, you guys can speculate all you want, but I’ll take 1-2 odds Jesus will be with us next year. Forget about about the 50-70 mill and let’s just add a few “DECENT” players so we can compete for the treble next season.
Best move of the offseason would be to sell Almunia to Manu for the nominal fee of $1.00.
Ummm, Carib… Arsenal have sold their “face of the club” on more than one occasion… have sold their Captain twice…
We aren’t daunted by “PR” nightmares, we do what is best for the Arsenal Football Club.
To hell with everyone elses ideas of what should be done.
It might not be this season, but it will happen.
If the money is right, I would not be surprised, not even mildly surprised.
50 to 70 Million pays down a lot of debt, and it makes a massive profit on ONE PLAYER, who is not the whole team, he’s one player.
Nobody is worth that money, and if we can cash in Cesc, I wouldn’t even blink an eye.
Yeah… when they were on the downhill, not about to enter their prime. And had won numerous trophies.
Details, details….
Can’t let facts ruin one’s mantra….
Also, if a someone says a number (let’s say a candidate for President of a big Spanish Club) a newspaper prints it (in a huge font on it’s front page) is it a Fact? The intelligent observer might think that maybe, just maybe….it’s somebody talking out of their ass and somebody else just trying to sell papers.
ManCity is said to be ponying up 50 Million as well…
and we know they LOVE Arsenal players, who’ve got them on the brink of making the CL.
you don’t have to like the talk of Cesc leaving, but its not going to slow down at all.
Lets face it, our last 5 matches are not going to be easy.
Who is going to be available? Song? Arshavin? Sol?
And whose going to get injured?
All big question marks…..
As Arsenal fans we are hopeful in the belief we can run the table of our matches, but
Spurs, City, Blackburn, and Fullham will all be stern tests.
Hey, you left out Wigan away…with their guys trying to impress AW with their good footballing (“buy me, buy me”) aided by their intimidate knowledge of their (often) dodgy rugby pitch….(“Arsene, watch this, as I pop the ball into the air off a well-placed divot before slamming home a bicicleta, thinks Hugo Rodellega to himself….)
None of the matches will be easy, but they only come one at a time. Our ancient enemy/neighbor to the North first…
If we beat Tottenham on Wednesday, we will WIN the remaining 4 games as well.
A win on Wednesday, and its 5 in a row!
I’ll bet on it!
and OFF the field…
Its being reported that Lady Bracewell-Smith, who owns 16% of Arsenal’s shares… is selling them off, valued at about 80 Million GBP.
Kroenke needs just 10 shares to be in position to takeover…
and Usmanov, if he bought the shares from her, would be over the 30% threshold…
All very interesting … the backroom and board of Arsenal are
gonna get a shake-up… could determine the direction the club goes.
Or not.
But the wheels are turning off the pitch.
it will be VERY interesting to see how this all plays out. there has been speculation for a number of years on this topinc, looks like we’re finally going to cross “that” bridge….
In other random news:
-I really hope this appeal goes through. For obvious reasons…
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=769920&sec=england&cc=3436
-The moment I heard purple nose’s post match comments about Bolton vs Chelsea I was happy that he was playing the psychological game (as his hopes are aligned with ours regarding that game). And it may be having the desired effect thus far. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=769909&sec=england&cc=3436
-http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=770059&sec=england&cc=3436 He’s not that sort of guy! Hence: “Terry sent Milner a text to make sure his England team-mate was okay, but Terry did not apologise.” BS!!! He should’ve been suspended for 3 of the final 4 games of the season! I reckon Torres would have had a less painful time against the damn Chavs w/o that thug with license to go in with leg-breakers.
Anyway…
Oh, I love this column.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=769898&sec=england&root=england&cc=4716
“That Leo Messi’s a bit good isn’t he? Just ask Arsenal, who are probably still seeing images of him speeding past, ball glued to foot, whenever they close their eyes. Real Madrid were the latest to feel the sting of the ‘flea’, whose presence clearly did much to annoy the flouncy Cristiano Ronaldo, who isn’t used to sharing the spotlight with anybody, but is used to moaning his arse off and acting like a five-year-old whose brother has nicked his ice cream.
Ronaldo can boast outrageous skill to almost match Messi, but he can’t lay a finger on him in terms of attitude and work rate. While Ronaldo stands there pouting after losing the ball, or griping at a team-mate for not passing to him, or having the temerity to score without checking with him first, Messi is already dashing at an opponent to win the ball back.
For the second year running Barca marched into the Bernabeu, pulled Real Madrid’s pants down, and wandered off with three points tucked into their jockstrap. Real Madrid were the ones who splashed millions upon millions in the summer, but it’s looking increasingly likely they will have to watch their bitter rivals waltz to the title, then win the Champions League on their own patch. Ouch. Very ouch.”
yes, that’s fantastic…
but I heard here that Barcelona isn’t really that good!
So, if they are the best team in the world, but not that good,… then everybody else must SUCK!
;)
Finally, this morning, before the sleeping giant(s) wake….
The Spurs match in 50 hours looms HUGE!!!
They must win to resurrect their season with ManCity finally finding some form. ‘Arry’s big gamble (taking off Jermaine Defoe after an hour yesterday) blew up in their face, which is now covered in egg….
A draw on Weds does not serve either team well AND even if we win it may be too little too late as the likelihood of Spurs taking points from Chelsea (and Liverpool or another team doing likewise) seems very unlikely. I guess there is still a scenario whereby we win at White Hart Lane (and win in), United beat City, Spurs go on to beat Chelsea and City (and why not throw in United, while we’re at it….) and take 4th and everybody in North London ends up happy. And then Pompey beat Chelsea for the FA Cup, and white and red walk happily arm in arm in a parade that starts at the Angel station and ends at the Ally Pally….
It’s a beautiful dream and it all starts on Wednesday…(Gotta get back to the real world now, however….)
Not that crazy of a scenario, that we BEAT Spurs, and they go on and DRAW with Chelsea…
Liverpool, at home, COULD draw with Chelsea as well.
We win out, 5 in a row … and take the title.
It would make perfect sense, based on what I’ve seen all season in the EPL.
Then Chelsea lose to Pompey in the FA Cup, and the only trophy for Chelsea, United and Liverpool, is United’s Carling Cup!
Chelsea Bolton before then. I haven’t yet decided on whether I’ll be waking up at 2 AM to cheer on young Jack… Imagine he did inspire Bolton to a result. It would make Wenger’s decision to loan him out the best move of the Jan transfer window in the league.
I am not too confident of any other teams besides Tottenham and Liverpool … of possibly taking points off Chelsea.
But anything is a bonus!
So guys, as Arsenal fans, would YOU be devastated to sell Cesc this summer, if the amount we received was $60 mill pounds or MORE? With the stipulation that the funds were used by Arsene immediately buying a top class GK (Akinfeev), experienced and strong CB, a target striker if Chamakh isn’t signed…….and Eden Hazard.
“With the stipulation that the funds were used by Arsene immediately…”
Not gonna happen so there’s no point to this hypothetical, because that’s all it will ever be- hypothetical.
Don’t you believe that most of what is posted here is hypothetical.
Last April, not many of us could have forecasted the transfer of Ade and Toure.
Couldn’t we? Toure had put in a transfer request in Jan and was having off-field problems with Gallas. And Adebayor’s relationship with the fans and his teammates was clearly on the decline. To make maters worse, he wasn’t doing his bit on the pitch and was starting to get on the wrong side of Wenger.
But al that said, I do believe when it comes to speculating future moves in the market, most of it is just that- speculation and very much hypothetical.
agree about Toure and Gallas chemistry & Ade’s PR nightmare…….but still didn’t see the transfers!
I guess the money was too big to pass up? Which is my point.
No. I would not like to see Cesc go. Why? Team cohesion. This team may or may not win something but it has progressed over the last few years and removing one of its primary players will only set the team bacvk furhter – regardless of who you bring in for the money.
We need a new CB and new GK and some cover for other spots – like DM. Other than that – we are fine where we are.
Okay – good points, BUT
How would you feel if we kept Cesc another season, pick up striker and CB, and next year still don’t win League or make CL semi’s? Would you be content?
Would a fortune thrown at the club, sway your opinion for a new look?
and I don’t WANT Cesc to be sold, but I understand that if that CRAZY money is offered, why you take it.
He could get injured and never command 50 million again.
It would be best for the Arsenal Football Club, and we can compete without him, just like we have when we sold Henry, Vieira, etc…
You have to look at the long-term financial picture, over a short-term chance at a piece of metal for a cabinet.
I would be very upset if Cesc were sold…and I agree with Chicago about the “using the funds immediately” stipulation…it’s hypothetical and not the way the club does business.
Cesc seems committed, AW has put his faith in him (if one goes, so should the other, probably) and we’ve yet to see the best of him (due to injuries) as a player, but his contributions as Captain this season have been impressive.
Assuming the best (or worst) scenario (depending on your view of the situation) that Spain wins the WC and Cesc is a star (showing that he is the obvious long-term solution for Barca to replace 30 y/o Xavi) the amounts bandied about for Cesc will be insane.
(Another scenario is that Cesc gets injured–badly–Spain flame out early in the WC and STILL Barca offer big money for him…and we debate here about how he’s over-rated and we should take the money, etc.–I’m still against selling him and, right now at least, I want to continue the AW as manager/Cesc as Captain experiment…but that’s just me…)
The club (Jan interview with Gazidis) has gone on record saying that fans should ignore the Spanish press/Club president election news cycle AND that our financial approach allows us to hang onto our best players, including Cesc. “Only time will tell”, “Everything/body has a price,” and all the other cliches, however, are in play….
And, of course, somebody (perhaps a new poster with the moniker Bob Loblaw?) on this board will be cutting and pasting and posting (numerous, repeated, endless?) replies, about how selling Cesc will be A GOOD THING, and how making money is what Arsenal are all about, and we challenged for trophies this season, what more could we want? etc., etc. Enjoy….
Agree with your remarks. Its just very likely the transfer market will heat up again this summer and we should not be surprised at the bait and temptation.
You don’t care about the financial well-being of the club,obviously…
50 Million for ONE PLAYER… nobody is worth that.
The club will go on regardless of whether Cesc plays here, he isn’t the club, he isn’t even among the greats at the club.
50 or 60 million, I would sell Cesc…
NEVER will there be a stipulation, and we wouldn’t spend most of what comes in, it would be a fantastic profit sale…
and… I am sure Wenger would be able to make a few shrewd buys, and keep us in the Top 4 again, even without Cesc.
Nobody is bigger than the team, and the club would go on without Cesc Fabregas.
I wouldn’t sell him. It isn’t in line with the “long-term” best interests of the club, which we as the “true arsenal fans” care about. Not 50 mil anyway. With the market as it is, when you say crazy money, I’d expect at least 70 before I as a fan would be willing to consider accepting it.
As model Ar$enal fans with the club’s best interest’s at heart, we need to try hold on to our players who haven’t even reached their prime yet and have given nothing but their all for the club with no desire to leave (if that changes it’s a different story). If we want to maximise our profits, we need to continue Cesc’s development and sell him for the cost of a new stadium in 2-3 years time. We can also do some pre-emptive surgery and put in some adamantium coating on his bones and saturate his muscles in horse-placenta so that he stays injury free.
Re-reading that I don’t know if I’m on a wind-up or whether I’m making valid points. I need sleep!!
well, if he gets injured Ozi, and he’s been injured every season… then we could lose out on 50 or 60 Million GBP, that the club can surely use.
I’d like him to stay, but…
If those offers come in, I can understand the clubs thinking.
It would be a massive profit, and shrewd business, and good for the Arsenal Football Club.
As a true fan, you have to understand that, and that long-term, all players usually leave… nobody is bigger than the club.
Look, I don’t want to see us lose Cesc. He does magic with the ball, but we all have a sense that he’s gonna leave Arsenal anyway.
At some point some club is going to pull out their check book and like the $40 mil for Ade and Toure, it will turn the club’s head.
I can see Nasri filling the spot in his absence with Rosicky as back up……..and long term the spot might be Ramsey’s.
I was thinking a sale of this magnitude might allow Arsene enough resources to plug ‘all’ the holes that we have been talking about and
not have us over extend.
Wenger doesn’t really see many holes in the line-up…
We’re 3 points out of first, with a real chance to win the league.
He could spend 15 to 20 million on 2 or 3 players, … and we’d be 30 MILLION ahead in profit.
I can definitely see that being an attractive option for the AFC.
Our match with Blackburn has been moved from Sat. May 1st to Monday May 3rd (ESPN). We’ll need the
extra 2 days to rest up for this battle royale.
On the physioroom site; Djourou is not listed? RvP’s return date has been moved up 10 days.
Barca won their classico with Real.
After Real spending 230mil euro’s last summer, couldn’t score a goal at home, what an embarrassment. To think they sold off (at below market value) Sneijder to Inter and Robben to Bayern – what a blessing for both those clubs.
To rub salt in the wound, after our CL tie with Barca, Madrid is having to listen to world wide praise for Messi – comparing him to Pele and Maradona……..never has Real had one of their players in this kind of spotlight.
Arsenal can expect Real to throw their hat in the bidding war for Cesc this summer. As Arsenal fans, it should be interesting to sit back and see what kind of numbers are tossed around.
The real “salt in the wound” will be if Barca can beat Inter in the CL semis and play (and win) the Final at the Bernabeu….A big reason, I think, that Madrid went so crazy with their spending last summer for Ronaldo, Kaka, Benzema, Alonso, et. al. They NEEDED to win the CL this season (easier with home field advantage for the final)….
But, as (some) Arsenal fans know all too well….”The best laid plans….
Nicely put!
its all good… City already declared 50 MILLION in interest…
Hopefully Real Madrid can up that total…
I watched the highlights of El Classico. Pedro’s goal was a delight.
I looked him up and I wasn’t surprised to find out that he is only 22. But I was surprised to read that he has scored 18 goals this season !!
It is very tempting to compare him with Theo, but I don’t get La Liga, so I haven’t seen much about Pedro. I can only hope that Theo will one day score 18 goals in a season. We know he can score them, but can he do it consistently?
The match in Madrid was closer than the scoreline indicates but the better team most certainly won. Madrid had some awfully decent chances (and lots of shots straight at Valdes) but Barca could’ve scored several more. The announcers on Gol TV (Phil the American and nutty Ray Hudson) got a lot of mileage out of talking about how Barca took apart Arsenal “like they were an under-12 squad,” etc….
Much has been written recently about how La Liga is exceptionally poor once you get past Barca and RM, hence the reason players like Pedro can score so many goals. As a stat man you should check out the goal differences….IMO, the refs protect the top two teams in a way we absolutely do not see in England, and generally there seems to be a culture where the lesser teams are not so sad to “play well” against them while losing to them. Ironically, because of this, (and because the English League is more open, esp. the title and battle for 4th) I haven’t watched as much La Liga this season as the past couple.
As for Theo….I’m not so worried about his totals right now…but I’ll take a few more before this campaign ends…
I wouldn’t say Under-12, but maybe an Under-16 squad…
Barcelona somehow seems to come up each year with a gem or two from their Academy. This year saw the emergence of Pedro and Busquette as solid first team players. last year it was the emergence of Pique (although he did have a short and fruitless stint at Manu), Messi and Iniesta the year before, and the list goes on.
Bojan who was hailed as the next Messi is still trying to find his feet although he shows flashes of brilliance and in the background is Suarez and Dos Santos (brother of the now Spurs Dos Santos and best friend of Vela).
They typically feature 7 home grown starters in their regular lineup this year in Valdez, Xavi, Pedro, Messi, Iniesta, Busquette and Puyol.
Arsenal on the other hand can really only boast about Fab (to some extent), Clichey and ??????
Therein lies the difference in success.
back to the Wembley pitch. The FA should be ashamed of themsevles by spending so much on new Wembley and forgot what is the most important part of a stadium – the PITCH.
Yes if Chelsea win the league, Pompey would be robbed for their UEFA Cup spot next season. It would surely have helped their finance playing in Europe despite relegation.
I’m not sure all those rules and regulations, whether they are allowed to apply for that license or not, because now they are in administration.
So because Pompey can’t be in Europe next year, does that mean that theres 3 spots for that in the league now? Because if that’s the case, I see a potentially bad scenario from our point of view. City to have secured 4th spot by the time Pool play Chelsea, Pool comfortably in the Europa league so no real motivation to go all out and risk their fitness ahead of WC and/or Europa cup finals if they make it past the semis.
I can also see Ancelloti going to Anfield with a containment plan playing not to lose more than anything. Although with the goal difference as it is, Chelsea dropping 4 points is pretty much the same as them dropping 5 points (from our pt of view, not the mancs).
The permutations are becoming a bit like a tourney group stage thingy. I’m just going to will Wilshere to do a masterclass performance for Bolton. And for Terry and Drogba to comically get into a fistfight (a la newcastle) getting them suspended for 15 games each.
Pompey have not applied for the UEFA license… from what I just read.
Having MADE the FINAL of the FA Cup, they are eligible to play in UEFA League.
I hope they apply for the license, AND go and play.
This story of Pompey this year is a GREAT story. To me, it is what makes football, and English Football special.
From Avram Grant:
said Grant. “I’m very happy. I want to celebrate.”
He did not forget the Pompey fans who sang themselves hoarse and stayed celebrating for an hour after the match had finished.
“This achievement belongs to the fans and the players,” said Grant. “The players didn’t give up. The fans showed how fans need to behave. They were behind the club despite everything. They are so great they deserve it. This club, this year, I will not forget it all my life.”
Oddly, we will NEED Spurs to take points off Chelsea,
if we are going to have any chance of catching them.
Obviously, we need a WIN at Spurs… and that will put additional
pressure on Spurs… to try and get points against Chelsea, and
attempt to keep pace with ManCity.
Spurs BIG goals were making the FA Cup Final, and the Top 4.
The Top 4 spot would be more important financially, and bringing
in players who want CL matches.
Spurs COULD help Arsenal win the league.
Wouldn’t that be a kick in the ass!
But if we don’t beat them, we have virtually no shot at catching
Chelsea…
Spot on… Though it is hard to see Chelsea not win it from here on end. Esp after having watched the most pathetic finishing on Pools part. I’m praying that Torres makes a speedy recovery and that Pool have something to fight for in that penultimate game. The way it’s looking, it seems they may struggle to finish in a EUROPA league spot as well.
For whomever asked –
The reasons Pompey will not be allowed to represent in the EUROPA cup next year even if they win the FA Cup is that have not paid to be a UEFA member. (Something like that)
If they WIN the FA Cup, I am sure that can (and should) be worked out… just like Liverpool WINNING the CL, but not being in the top 4 in the league a few years back.
They got into the CL qualifying stages.
How often does the Cup final pit the (current) league leaders against the last-place league team?
almost NEVER, but it has had a Championship side before!
GREAT day for Pompey. The fans deserve it. Brilliant stuff, and that is exactly what makes the FA Cup special… even if Wenger thinks the tournament is utterly meaningless.
hilarious spurs! that 120 minutes of hard work on the pathetic wembley pitch only to lose to a relegated team should hopefully soften them up for us LOL
at least for us our task is very straightforward … win all our five games. and there is enough recovery time for all our games … except the spurs, wigan spacing.
As for the other games. Quite boring for the most part. Pool look completely toothless without Torres (imagine our guys feeding him here at Arsenal). Utd equally so at Blackburn and that is going to be one hell of a scrap getting 3 points there. I think its at least as tough as the totts and city… But anyway…
Adam Johnson at City continues to impress. Saw just the highlights of that game but he has some really mean balls into the box. And he cost sth like 5 mill!! Quite a buy.
On to the spuds! Hopefully they will be properly tired after 120 mins and properly deflated after going out to Pompey in the FA Cup semis. Palacios will miss the game against us with his 10th booking. Good news! Unfortunately, he’ll also miss the game to Chelsea as well. Not so great news. Any word on whether Song or any of our other injuries are going to be fit?
Manny
Sagna- Sol- Verm- Clichy
Song
Nasri – Diaby
Theo/Eboue- Bendy- Rosicky
Bale has been an absolute monster down spuds left the last month or so. It is critical that Sagna has a good game. A bit of pace down our right might also allow us to exploit some of the space he leaves open.
Other than that, we need to hope that Bolton, Coyle and Wilshere do a Pompey and get a result at Stamford Bridge.
Eboue should start over Theo. Some players do best coming off the bench, and he’s one of them.
i think the barca game proved it for us once and for all.
theo is a 20 minutes player, and its always better for him to get the last 20 than the first.
Esp with spuds having run this hard. Bale must be knackered. He was marauding up and down the pitch for 120 mins.
I agree Theo is better off the bench right now… but Eboue, maybe he can dive and get us a penalty…
This game is truly poetic justice.
All the players sold by Spurs to Pompey and then took some of them back – Crouch, Defoe, Kaboul, Boateng, etc.
And of course, Harry. Screwed Pompey by spending lavishly and then promptly jumped ship.
If you compare him with Avram Grant. What can you say? You simply cannot buy class.
spent “lavishly”… I don’t really think that is true, compared to the teams that REALLY spent lavishly, like United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool…
Boateng scores! That should seal it.
What a relief! No trophy for Spurs this year.
The look on Harry’s face is priceless.
Pompey 2-0 FT…(Great play today from David James.)
Big match Weds….
Penalty to Pompey !!!
Did you think it was a PK.? I’m not so sure, they didn’t replay it enough.
Nope, it wasn’t a PK. Who cares!
Dindane and Utaka screw up a golden chance to seal the game!
Pompey score!
Spurs – Pompey game is into extra time.
and Pompey up 1-0!
Stag133 Reply:
April 11th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Andez, yes… that is / was the trait of ManU’s older players… fighters, muckers, grinders… they give it all…
you HAVE to have some of this type player in your team, when the finesse and nice football doesn’t work that day.
Ray Parlour-ish?
—————————————————-
The funny thing is Arsene Wenger did rate players like Ray Parlour.
When he took over Arsenal, I thought Parlour would be among the first to get shown the door. Cos he got no fancy foot work and technically average. Not really the type of players a foreign coach like Wenger would rate.
So I thought. But Arsene clearly loved his workrate, commitment. He decided to chop the far more gifted Paul Merson and kept Parlour. It showed that Wenger appreicates a hardworking water carrier’s value.
But somewhere down the road, I think AW got too caught up with his obsession with buying skillful players and forgotton talent itself is not enough to win the league, at least not with the Premiership.
well said about Ray Parlour… and that JUST talent, isn’t always enough…
because sometimes, talent is going to have an off-day, and you have to FIGHT thru it, and grind out the win.
(we’ve done a bit more of that this season)
United DROP points.
We can take second place with a win at Spurs!
That’s great.
Don’t you get more money at the end of the year for a
higher league spot?
Anyway…
If we BEAT Spurs… they will REALLY need to take points off
Chelsea, if they are going to challenge ManCity for the 4th spot.
The possibility is lining up nicely… we have a chance with 5 games left… we just need a bit of help.
WIN our 5 games, and see what happens.
http://anotherarsenalblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/terry-filth-refereeing-does-not-punish.html
Take a look folks, and judge it yourself, whether it’s a red card?
Howard Webb is a joke.
Webb is a joke, so is Terry. Web gives him a yellow instead of a red; then Terry has the nerve to argue that a yellow is too much!
Webb is just too damn weak. He does not have the gut to make correct decision when big teams are involved.
That was worse than Shawcross.
Webb is supposedly the best England have. He will be at the WC.
Terry is the most disgusting English player, worse than A Cole.
Any surprise none of us here will be supporting England in the WC? In fact, I will be Anybody But England.
what exactly makes you think Ash is “disgusting”?
I can’t recall him EVER playing dirty football or commiting bad tackles regularly.
He might be the best left-back in Arsenal HISTORY.
Yes, A Cole is not disgusting. He is also an excellent left back. I wish he had stayed, but that is water under the bridge now.
I meant that many Arsenal fans despise/detest him because of what he did.
But Terry is a lot worse.
Disgusting challenge. I wonder if the FA will do anything about it.. Not gonna be holding my breath though
The FA doing something against the ex England captain?
Good joke. :)
Pool drop points but City are currently winning against Birmingham.
I am cheering City. Only they stand between Spurs and the CL.
Even if Pompey win today, most of their top players can’t play in the final because of bonus payments which the club cannot afford. So it will be virtual walkover for Chelsea in the FA Cup final.
I am still supporting Pompey. Can’t bear to see the sight of Spurs having even a small chance of winning a trophy, especially if we end up empty.
I would LOVE to see Pompey win today.
They COULD actually win the FA Cup, get relegated, and play in the UEFA League next year from the Championship!
Not that its probable, but Portsmouth is a team to SUPPORT…
Their players and fans did NOT screw up the team.
They can’t play in Europe next year, because of some licensing/registration issue.
where did you hear / read this… because it was being discussed DURING the match… that they could make the UEFA Cup, even though they get relegated.
Sort of ironic if they win the FA Cup this year. Not only is it during the year they get relegated, but winning it in 2008 triggered all kinds of bonus payments to players that evidently really hurt the team financially.Their French striker on loan from Lens 9Dindane) probably won’t play in the final since it will trigger a payment clause to Lens. But man I hope they stuff Chelsea.
I think it’s just Dindane that the bonus payments applies to. And they’ll have O’Hara who had been by far their best man this season back for that one. Really happy for them.
ManU drop points at Blackburn.
Doesn’t make our derby game any easier, but should give us extra incentive to beat the Spurs.
We still have to go to Blackurn.
Nip,
Actually the wage system never changed. It has always been the case that young players are rewarded with their potential. I mean, how many football clubs have won trophy anyway? When Paul Gascogine first came to scene, and with so much hype around his potential, do you think he got paid less when he was young just because both of his early clubs (Newcastle and Spurs) failed to win anything?
If they did decide to pay him less just because the club had not won anything yet, you bet the bigger clubs would go and tempt him away with a much better salary.
Likewise, an older pro, when he’s career is winding down, doesn’t matter how many medals he have won, he’s not gonna get paid more than the younger players who won less. Ryan Giggs is probably the most medal decorated player of all time in England, do you think he gets paid more than Rooney?
Personally I believe attitude/ambition is something you born with it. Take Rooney, when Man U paid 30 mil for him, don’t tell me they were offering him 1k per week just because he’s young and before he won anything with Man U.
But this guy has a big heart from the day he made his debut. You can tell he wanted to win.
One thing u gotta hand it to Ferguson – that he would not want to buy or play anyone without a fighting heart. Well, at least most of the time (Barbertov is one exception).
If you look at their home grown players, they are all fighters. From Giggs, to Beckham, Nevile brothers, Scholes, Butts, to Fletcher, O’Shea. They may not be as skillful compare to some of our youngsters today, but they are mentally much tougher.
I think AW has paid too much attention on a player’s technically ability than mental strength when comes to signing a player.
When Arseblog said “the more you won the better you were rewarded”, I read that as winning games, not winning trophies. I think he meant the same, although I cannot be sure. A later statement says it better – “rewarded for their potential rather than their achievements”.
Speaking of fight, I was watching the Blackburn – ManU game.
Almost at the death Nzonzi has an open shot at goal, when Gary Neville just throws himself in line and blocks the shot.
Now, I absolutely detest the Neville brothers, but can you imagine any of the Arsenal youngsters doing that?
You are absolutely right in saying that Arsene pays too much attention to skills rather than mental strength. Reyes was the most glaring example.
Andez, yes… that is / was the trait of ManU’s older players… fighters, muckers, grinders… they give it all…
you HAVE to have some of this type player in your team, when the finesse and nice football doesn’t work that day.
Ray Parlour-ish?
Hell yeah… Ray Parlour, Patrick Vieira, and of course, the one and only Tony Adams.
“I think AW has paid too much attention on a player’s technically ability than mental strength when comes to signing a player.”
Spot-freaking-on. Back in the day, when he had a more mature side overall, this was easier to miss. As Wenger’s gotten more myopic over the years, and the team younger, it’s been more plainly exposed.
http://beta.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog/posts/sunday-round-up
I liked this part –
“We have to get Barca out of our system. Everyone has to learn and be honest about it. Ask: ‘Where do I want my career going?’ You have to be honest with yourself and say: ‘I must work harder, understand the game more and realise it’s a big world out there’.”
You wonder how often players of this generation will maintain that kind of attitude/ambition. It used to be a case that the better you played or the more you won the better you were rewarded, either with wage increases or a move to a top club. I think that still holds true for players that come through the ranks and work their way up from a smaller club to a bigger one but you have to wonder about players who come to Arsenal at a young age and are rewarded for their potential rather than their achievements. I’m not naming names but some players are being given long contracts and big pay rises without really having earned them.
I understand the reasoning, we’ve all complained that people have left on free transfers when they shouldn’t have, but perhaps it allows a player to coast through his career knowing he doesn’t really have to go the extra mile at times. A reminder of what it’s all about from Sol is no bad thing in my opinion.
Saw the Burnley Hull game. Happy to see Hull give Burnley their first away win for the season. Andez just a mention of Burnley’s penalty taker Graham Alexander. I haven’t seen anyone else ever take a penalty with the outside of their boot the way he did last night. Quite unstoppable. Right in the corner, with power, and the shooting technique to throw off most keepers. His records something like 73 from 79. Quite impressive I thought…
Ozi, I didn’t watch the game, I hope someone will upload it to youtube.
Speaking of relegation battle, I really hope West Ham will stay up.
I wonder if there is any football fan at all who hates Zola.
Such a gentleman. Irony is – As an Italian, he is more a gentleman than many English managers.
And he did get his team playing football. I sure hell hope a football playing side will stay up at the expense of anti-football sides. At least it will then send out a message – you can still stay at the Premiership trying to play football with a small squad.
Yea… I have the same sort of sympathies for Wigan. Hope they and West Ham stay up. Burnley of earlier in the season with Coyle in charge were fun to watch as well.. But it’s gone well downhill since he left.
Here’s highlights if you want to watch… http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/5334433/
http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/5328784/
http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/5328787/
My comments seem not to be going through :S
Catch the highlights if you can. As for footballing sides staying up, that is the exact reason I really want West Ham as well as Wigan to stay up. Was rooting for Burnley as well, played good stuff when Coyle was there, but it’s gone sadly downhill since them. Both results wise (in spite of their win) and footballing wise.
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/04/09/thomas-vermaelen-arsenal-positional-errors/
Yeah I saw that article a couple of days back. Quite an interesting read. I hope that Gallas signs a new deal. And if not, I hope the replacement, whoever he is, has the Toure of old recovery pace in him. Defensive football never quite gets the ‘whoa’ reaction that attacking football gets but those last ditch nicks from behind have always got my pulse racing and me cheering (though I obv would prefer our positioning reduce the need for such tackles).
I hope one of either Chelsea or Spurs lose in this round, tho that is unlikely. I always like to have someone to cheer for in a final.
Thank you CK for that excellent, common sense post. The corporate rings alone at Emirates bring in more revenue that did ALL of Highbury. THrow in the other 55-58 thousand seat and that’s one shitload of money.
Thanks CG.
Even without the CL money we would still make a profit. Smaller no doubt but we would still be ahead of the game.
What we all forget is that the reason we are rolling in this financial bonanza is mainly due to our performance over the past 11 years in WINNING trophies, not being runner ups. People like winners and a lot of fans were attracted to Arsenal because we won trophies while playing attractive football. This in turn increased our visibility worldwide, which allowed us to exponentially grow our fan base, increase our merchandising and therefore our profits. Our match day intake pays for the debt and much of our operational expenses. The rest is gravy.
No one, especially me, is saying we should go out and splurge on David Villa, Messi, etc. But, go spend between 6-10 mill each on a decent GK and versatile sub who can fill in at DM and CB so we have more balance in the team.
Next year, Liverpool will be retooling and believe it or not, Tottenham and City will be adding to their already capable squads. sitting pat is not an option if we want to even ensure CL qualifying.
If we don’t start winning soon a lot of our “fair weather” fans will be moving on to greener pastures and with it, their cash.
This is no longer an English game, it’s now global and a lot of our income is derived from merchandising and image rights outside of Britain. Match day receipts alone can not make us a big club.
It’s like I’ve always said, AFC is a business. Anyone that thinks Arsene is getting the sack when he’s making the club so much money is out of their mind.
The constant is still that Wenger has to sign the right player at the right valuation. If he can’t get who he wants at the right price, he’s not going to just go out and buy someone who we think might fit the bill. He’s not going to overpay for any player. He’s not going to keep someone that doesn’t want to stay. He’s not going to try and sign someone who doesn’t want to come.
I think Wenger’s principles are certainly good for team building. His plan for the future is descent except that he didn’t seem to account for two variables. The first being that some players left that he didn’t expect to leave. The second being that he didn’t have the allure to attract all of the new players he wanted.
I agree with this: For better or worse, AW and Arsenal feel confident in their valuation of players and do not allow themselves to be pressured into buying players in order to “show ambition.” Gazidis said exactly this in January.
The problem in football is that you can only have so many players on the pitch at once, on the first team, etc. The best players want to play. Being in the CL year after year attracts good players. If Man City can hold onto 4th they will be buying. Given that they are content to lose (copious amounts) of money we need to expect several high profile players to land there. Teams like Man City, Real Madrid and Chelsea which can absorb losses year after year skew the top of the market. Other teams (including Arsenal) operate just below them, hoping to poach the players they pass over, cast off (at a bargain, see, for example, Wesley Sneijder) and/or develop their own.
I agree with CK that the stadium debt is not the issue and that we have solid cash reserves for buying AND/OR paying salaries. My understanding is that 70% of ALL profits, including transfers, are “ring-fenced” from other club operations (i.e., debt payments). Right now, however, much of these profits are being used for salaries rather than new transfers showing that the club has substantial faith in it’s current roster (surprise, surprise). Many on this site have argued that this is poor policy as the players haven’t earned such high remuneration, but, long term (IMO) it does serve to make Arsenal an attractive spot to land. A player like Chamakh will come here because he knows he’ll get a good contract when he does (though he’s taking a massive gamble that he won’t get injured here at the close of the season). The loser is his former club. Likewise with much younger players joining at the academy level.
So, that’s my understanding of the clubs finances and it’s financial policy and philosophy. (But, as always, what the hell do I know?…) Long term it seems good to me. Of course, I’m a noobie and have a patience when it comes to the trophy drought (our “wandering in the desert”–I love it, Kiwi, btw) that long term supporters don’t. I appreciate “information” that helps me understand the club, but I try to realize that “information” is always presented with a slant. Still, it’s preferable to endlessly repeated cliches and half-truths, etc.
I agree, to a certain extent, with CK about “fair weather fans” but I think it has to do with TV fans. If anyone can inform me how this actually affects the finances of these clubs, I would love to know.
The “Big 4” in England drive our league but the TV revenue is shared. My wife (her again…) has this one Facebook “friend” who knows of her interest in football/soccer and has gone from being a Liverpool fan to a Chelsea fan over the course of the season. With Chelsea out of the CL he’s now (nominally) a Bayern fan, but he’s leaning hard towards Barca after last week! Rather than mocking my wife’s allegiance to Arsenal, he merely sympathizes…my guess being that he’s not quite sure why she sticks with the club….
It’s all pretty harmless (and sickening, to me at least), but unless he’s buying kits or flying over for matches (which I’m sure he’s not doing) how does it affect the revenue of any of the clubs mentioned?
Steve,
I believe the kinds of fans CK is referring to, in this case, are what we here call ‘wine and cheesers’. Those who like going to whatever big game, of whatever big sport happens to be popular at whatever given time. They go to matches (ticket revenue, program revenue, food revenue, booze revenue etc) because it’s the thing to do. When that falls out of vogue, they move on. These would include corporate types who buy luxury seats at great (company) expense to entertain clients. You lose them, after already having priced out the middle class, and you’re losing a big chunk of change that would go straight into Arsenal coffers.
Of course, if I remember correctly, CK lives in the ATL. One of the worst major sports towns…ever Wine and Cheese central. So he may have been scarred that.
;-)
But he still has a point. Approximately $26/month of my DirecTV bill goes to me being able to watch Arsenal matches Live. That doesn’t put a strain on me right now. But what about the guy with a family who needs to start cutting corners? If watching Arsenal starts seeming less urgent, maybe he saves money by watching them on tape delay?
The diehards will always be there. But they aren’t the ones who turned this into a game for the super-rich, and that’s where we are now. How many college basketball ‘fans’ do annual office brackets make? Why do you think the tournament is about to go up to 96 teams, and will be shown on two networks? How much more money will CBS be making on golf ‘fans’ who tune in to see if Tiger’s playing on Sunday?
Like it or not, ‘fair weather’ fans are the crack to which major sport, one way or another, has been come addicted.
Aren’t “wine and cheesers” exactly the folks who are buying out all the corporates boxes at the Emirates?
The very people for whom you build big, shiny new stadiums.
Perfect examples are the new NY Yankees Stadium and the Dallas Cowboys stadium.
Yankee stadium features restaurants where the average person can not afford a drink much less an horsdouvre and to top it all you can get an overpriced haircut before during and after the game. Not only do you pay for seats, but in order to get a season ticket you have to pay seat licensing rights. Seat licensing was also adopted by the Jets and Giants to fund their building of the stadium.
The average Joe and his family has been totally priced out of the market.
TV revenue is based on a minimum guaranteed amount for all clubs every season. After that it gets kinda screwy but is then based on games which get aired.
To make it even more complex, ratios are applied domestically based on whether it’s aired on free TV, Pay TV (Setanta, Cable, DirectTv, etc.) and then there is another similar formula for overseas rights which are based on international regions.
Suffice to say that whichever team gets aired the most usually ends up with the biggest pot. Just to get you more confused, the EPL, CL, FA, and CC competitions all have different payout structures. Clubs need a separate Accountant just to figure out their payments. (lol).
Hope this was not too confusing.
@Vibes, I have only lived in Atlanta for 3 1/2 years so I am not necessarily a big “Hotlanta” fan.
The real problem is that I lived in South Florida for 14 years and support the Dolphins, Marlins and Heat. Shite! The Dolphins have not won anything for about 25 years. Talk about long suffering fans.
Thank goodness the Heat and Marlins both managed to win a couple of Championships each.
My sister and her family lived in ATL for 12 years, before moving out to SoCal a few years ago. So I used to go down there quite a bit. (A friend still owns a little club in the Virginia-Highlands area.)
I remember when the Georgia Dome first opened. The place was rocking when they were good. Tumbleweeds, otherwise. Even Braves fans got bored with ‘only’ making the play-offs and left empty seats for anything that wasn’t the World Series. Forget about the Hawks, obviously.
Oh, well. At least the Summers aren’t stifling. ;-)
Thanks for all the info…Sounds promising for the Ar$enal ;-)….
European football, however seems different from the American Sports in that the big teams win so often that it is almost ALWAYS a good time (drinking, singing) etc.) at the stadium. Add to that a commitment to “pretty football” and loving the Arsenal seems a natural for the moneyed types flowing into London all the time. I would think that a corporate box at the Emirates is a whole lot less “risky” for a well-to-do company (esp. if a key exec is a life-long supporter) than it would be in the US leagues, with their revenue sharing and drafts and other “level playing-field” devices.
Also, as I alluded to way up above, football is a little later to the party of heavily televised sports (this was in reference to my post about the upcoming World Cup). As such, it’s a mercurial period where countless MILLIONS of people already interested in football/soccer can now (or soon) start following the big teams in Europe. Who will they choose? If we’re up there every year, with a team full of familiar names and faces from the World Cup, why not Arsenal? The “need” for trophies doesn’t really apply to these folks (though we might need to go a round or two further in the CL sooner than later to really acheive critical mass.)
Expect Robin to return for a couple of substitute appearances. The primary objective being a little warmup for the WC. If you honestly think he’s going to have a positive influence on our season – pass around the stuff we could all do with some.
van Persie has a unique set of skills that can’t be taught. It’s called exceptional talent. Not only that, but he’s a good player. Do you think it beyond belief that van Persie can come off the bench and score a sweet free-kick to win us a game?
I know you’re not a fan because of his injury record but can you really deny his talent?
Nothing wrong with paying down the stadium debt as early as we can. It’s prudent.
Nothing wrong with adding to the roster to try and ensure that we don’t repeat the failings of the past few years – with a threadbare squad in the clutch. That’s our reason for being.
It’s the mix of these two truths that the club has to get right. You rarely hear the media or supporters discuss this topic with a grain of common sense. People normally take an extreme position on either side to rebutt the opposing point of view. Arsene is one of the worst offenders in this regard.
Anyway, Carib is quite right, only time will tell. If we can’t win the title this year it will be 5 years in the desert. That could easily become 6, 7, 8…. easily. But for those wed to Wenger they’ll look to tomorrow with optimism. The rest will grow even less enchanted.
“THE DEBT IS PREVENTING US FROM SPENDING ON PLAYERS”
What I can’t seem to fathom is the number of supposedly intelligent people on this site who keep rehashing this cliche. For anyone who doubts what I have to say, Arsenal is a public corporation and therefore, all their financial records are accessible.
Arsenal is more profitable now than they ever have been. Meaning, that they have a higher “net profit” and a larger “unallocated cash reserve” presently than when they were at Highbury. In layman Jamaican language, dem ave whole heap ah money. In English, it simply means they now have more money to spend than before.
How is this one might ask? just add approximately 50% more capacity at increased prices, charge more for the woeful food, sell suites to large Corporations, increase your fan base by 30+ %, increase your merchandising, increase your revenue from image rights, sell ATV, rake in your substantial gains from EPL, FA, Carling Cup and CL television rights, and the math is simple.
The decision to buy or not buy players is totally down to Arsene and his directors. Dare you imagine Arsene being refused money by the Board to purchase a few players for a total of 30 Mill when they have over 100 Mill in cash reserves?
For whatever reason, Arsene has created a plan and is following his road map for success or failure. If he get’s it right we will all forget about the 6 year trophy less drought and hail him as a genius. If he fails, the guillotines will be sharpened. But please, don’t try to use the emirates as an excuse. It just doesn’t fly.
ONLY TIME WILL TELL!
Under the club structure there are no profits to shareholders. So for me the undercurrent theme in ownership is for the survival of the Club. Since hiring Arsene, there also seems to be a master plan that insures long term goals.
Yes, it appears its their intention to have large cash reserves. Very unlikely to see us ever spend $20mil for any player.
Why would any of us be surprised if there is a manager/board member silent agreement to paying down the stadium debt early?
From a financial standpoint, if you show healthy profits, the value of your company escalates – making stock value inflate.
carib,
A cliche being a cliche because it is true.
Otherwise, it would not have become a cliche at the first place.
As I said, if you make a million a year, while carrying a 20 mil debt, do you consider yourself “rich”?
Would u be more careful on your spending?
Let’s don’t overlook on thing – one major reason Arsenal are making profit every year is because we qualified for CL every year.
But that you have to thank to Arsene Wenger.
And should never take it for granted. Arsenal do not have a God given right to qualify for CL by default.
Before AW’s arrival, have we ever qualified for the CL? (don’t count the European cup).
The board have come out and said they had a “plan B” just in case we slip up one year and fail to qualify for CL.
A club which are carrying a big debt and fail to qualify for CL would be a disaster.
So where’s that “plan B” coming from?
Does it really hurt to have saved up more cash reserves just in case?
This is not an intelligent observation whatsoever.
This is a bloody COMMON SENSE.
Andez, a cliche is not necessarily true. All a cliche is, is an oft repeated and hackneyed phrase which may or may not have any true basis. It is often said that if you say something enough it becomes the truth. Ask our US politicians and the Catholic church about that strategy. They are well versed in defending indefensible positions.
When we were winning those trophies at Highbury we were also in the final Cl stages and with no EMIRATE DEBT, and still made less profit than the past 3 years.
Ergo, stadium debt is a non factor.
“A cliche being a cliche because it is true.”
Wrong. Cliches are about lazy, unoriginal thinking.
That’s like saying stereotypes or myths are true, just because the ignorant keep perpetuating them.
If this site proves anything, it’s that people saying the same things over and over does not make them true.
You guys got it right:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cliche
cli·ché
/kliˈʃeɪ, klɪ-/ Show Spelled[klee-shey, kli-] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a trite, stereotyped expression; a sentence or phrase, usually expressing a popular or common thought or idea, that has lost originality, ingenuity, and impact by long overuse, as sadder but wiser, or strong as an ox.
2.
(in art, literature, drama, etc.) a trite or hackneyed plot, character development, use of color, musical expression, etc.
3.
anything that has become trite or commonplace through overuse.
4.
British Printing.
a.
a stereotype or electrotype plate.
b.
a reproduction made in a like manner.
there are some truths in some stereotypes.
INTERESTING NEWS DEPARTMENT:
Robin Van Persie is practicing with the first team. Not just getting back in shape – he is practicing and their is a slight chance he may be on the bench for Spurs.
6 YEARS AGO TODAY:
Arsenal 4 – Liverpool 2
Coming back from one goal deficit twice…
Battling fatigue and Henry’s back injury…
Theirry Henry scored a hat-trick to send Arsenal 7 points clear
at the top of the table.
Seems like last week… but it was 6 years ago.
Here’s Theirry dribbling past half the Liverpool team:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYG5DbF6fS0&feature=related
ENJOY!
:)
Kiwi (and others)- in regards to your comments above, about how we built the new stadium to increase our matchday revenue with the goal of competing with the elite teams in the transfer market, and how one day we will be able to:
That is true, once the debt is paid off completely, the club will be able to redirect all matchday revenue to the transfer kitty (if it so chooses), and we will be able to spend more on transfers then we do now.
But the idea that we are somehow constrained in the transfer market is simply not true. Arsene used to spend more than he does now- while we were at Highbury he spent more on big transfers than he does now, at the Emirates.
But that can’t be due to less funds, because the Emirates matchday income, minus the debt payments, still leaves us with more left over than Highbury gave us. Just look at the numbers the club publishes- they are doing quite well financially. The debt has very little to do with income- it is all Arsene and his philosophy.
Or, as I did maybe 2 months ago, you can look at it algebraically:
x = matchday income from Emirates
y = debt payments due to Emirates
z= matchday income from Highbury
x – y > z
So, yes it’s true that we are more constrained financially then we will be once the stadium debt is totally gone. But it is an utter fallacy that we are more constrained than we were before we took on the debt.
That might, or might not be true.
We don’t see the books, and we don’t have the exact numbers.
BUT, if they take the additional profits and income, PLUS the profits from the sale of players over the last few years… and REDUCE the DEBT faster, then we’ll be closer to a reasonable stadium debt (or paying it off in full) sooner…
We might not be more constrained, but we are operating DIFFERENTLY with a bigger nut to crack.
We are SELF CONSTRAINED. So whether it is necessary, is just opinion.
That is the clubs model and business plan, there can be no debate.
Being frugal and responsible… is part of the Arsenal way, and making money is part of the plan…
be it to reduce the debt or to MAKE MONEY.
Either way, they are not bad things for the Arsenal Football Club.
Wenger, obviously subscribes to the planning, and also, I believe he LIKES to operate on a lower budget than he has available, and wants to do it HIS WAY.
We have higher ideals at Arsenal Football Club… and loftier goals than just spending to win a trophy this year or next.
Its a long-term thing.
Being extra extra-frugal is the ARSENE way, not the ARSENAL way. They are not the same thing. (Though for the near future they will be pretty much be.)
Arsene AND Arsenal are very much in sync.
Arsene is leading the team on the pitch, partly because of HOW he does business, which is good for the pockets of the board, and good for the profit margin of the club.
Also, the team has maintained a top 4 finish every season, so whether we like this model of “success”… or not…
Arsenal Football Club are SUCCESSFUL.
If we fell out of the top 4, we wouldn’t make as much money, and perhaps the board would be looking at our leader differently.
You can get the actual numbers (debts, revenue, etc) from the financial statements they are required to prepare as a PLC. That doesn’t mean everything is broken down and explained, but if you can read financial statements you can get a reasonably good idea of our clubs financial condition.
That line that says “The debt has very little to do with income…” should say, “the debt has very little do do with our lack of spending.”
I guess I was thinking faster than I was writing.
I think the debt has a LOT to do with our lack of spending.
Less spending = more profit = less debt (if they use the profits to pay down the debt)
I think the debt has a direct link to how much we spend on bringing in players.
Could be wrong, but I believe they are intertwined.
I’m pretty sure with an amount of money that MASSIVE you have to predetermine, very very long in advance, how much you will pay back and when. It’s not like “oh, gee, we did much better this month than last, let’s pay the creditors a little extra.” You pay what you agreed to pay way-back-when.
I am sure you can pay down the debt faster.
WHY wouldn’t you want to, or be able to do that?
You can pay more on your mortgage each month, and it means your mortgage length is reduced over time… saving you LOTS of money in interest over the mortgage period.
I can think of lots of reasons you would not want to pay more back on the debt than you’re required to.
As in any financial situation, that money could be better invested elsewhere. You could pay 15% more than you are required to for a given period.
Or, you could use that extra money to invest in say, a new marketing initiative. And even though the debt will now take slightly longer to pay (and thus you are loosing a little bit more money to interest), you still come out on top, b/c the income generated by that marketing initiative is MORE than the extra money you have to pay on the interest. Thus it can be seen as profit.
Chicago, that’s unfair to Arsene Wenger. You’re implying that Arsene refused to pay good money for players.
First, who did Arsene pay more for at Highbury than he paid for Arshavin? What defender did Arsene ever pay 11 million for at Highbury?
Wenger’s not going to just by “any” player to strengthen the team. It has to be the right player at the right price. Wenger wanted Melo and that Albanian kid who plays for Sunderland but they didn’t want to come to Arsenal. Wenger wanted Chamakh but couldn’t afford him. Two years ago, Wenger wanted Chellini and Arshavin but couldn’t get them. In January, Wenger had a 5 million GBP bid for Smalling accepted by Fulham but Man United bid 10 million for him. What can you do? It’s a tough business.
Likewise, Wenger isn’t going to go out and buy a player just because a fan might like him. Wenger is the one that has to manage that player, not the fans. Remember all the rave about paying 15 million for Babel? How about how the team “needed” Huuntelaar? Wenger’s only going to buy players he wants; good or bad.
Sure, Wenger knows players are out there available but he also knows that, for less than 3 million, he’s bought the likes of Fabregas, Toure, Anelka, van Persie, Vieira, Song, Flamini, Campbell, Diarra, Clichy, Lehmann, Bendtner, Eboue, etc. He knows too well that there’s no need to spend ridiculous money to acquire quality players. Highbury or the Emirates; it’s never been about money but a proper valuation of a player who wants to play for Arsenal.
“wake us up when they’re fit, if ever” in reference to Eduardo and Rosicky.
Very succinct comment to apply to Arshavin!
You can be selective in arguing for a player who has scored 10 goals – but this season Arshavin is a disappointment. Underachiever! Some here, in describing Arshavin’s performance, characterize his play as seeming disenchanted. Imo, its simply being ‘LAZY’.
We had one of those models last year.
I’m happy to give Arshavin a pass for his play at center forward. What’s the excuse for all the sitter’s in the penalty area he missed? Or the number of poor decisions in refusing to play the ball to an open teammate? Or all the poor passes, where he gave up possession?
The above is a common scenario for his play this year.
We’re not talking about the 22 yr. old Bendtner – but a 28 yr old, experienced at all levels of international player.
At least when Rosicky and Eduardo take the pitch, they give effort. For Arsenal fans, with Arshavin, its a crap shoot.
For both players being out for 18 months, if you expected their fitness and playing level to return to old form this season, I can see why you take your position.
Our problems with Arsenal performance this season have never been about Rosicky and Eduardo, but GK, CB, and a quality back up for Song. Look at the lost points at Burnley, W. Ham, Sunderland, and even 1st tie with ManU – defensive issues.
If the car has two flat tires, why are many focused on needing new rims?
“If the car has two flat tires, why are many focused on needing new rims?”
Nice one.
There could be several answers.
1. The driver doesn’t feel that the tires are flat. He thinks they are good enough.
2. The driver doesn’t believe in spending too much money on tires.
3. The driver believes that with strong rims, you can win the car race. Even if you can’t win, the beauty of the rims is sufficient to keep the car fans happy.
4. All of the above?
Right on, nip. I love how its now become about which specific players are relatively more insufficient than others. Let’s take this metaphor nautical, as this has become counting deck chairs on the Titanic, when we have a fundamental problem of construction.
“Our problems with Arsenal performance this season have never been about Rosicky and Eduardo, but GK, CB, and a quality back up for Song.”
Wow. No kidding? You mean the same problem we’ve had a couple of years running?
So, really, for all this back and forth about which individual players are the problem, it all comes down to just one man. He Who Cannot Be Questioned.
One man?
You mean the man who has guided us into the current position … 3 points off the top of the league, with 5 games to play…
WITHOUT spending on new players much.
WITHOUT having many players throughout the season because of injury.
Wenger has done a MASTERFUL job this season.
We have a legit shot to win the league.
WHAT MORE CAN YOU ASK?
Wenger has done the exact, same thing he’s done for the last 5 years. No more, no less.
He brought together another young side with potential, but still undermanned and thin at key areas (by choice, not happenstance), and guided them into 3rd in a League with little or no competition for that position. Some years we’ve been closer to the top, some years further. But in the end, we’ve won nothing and finished more or less in the same spot. (And yes, I’m projecting the same for this year. I will be delighted to eat pounds and pounds of crow, if I’m wrong.)
That you’re looking at the perfectly lovely drawing he’s been hanging and convinced yourself that it’s now the Mona Lisa is fine for you. For me, this season is no work of art. He’s just cranked out another xerox of increasingly faded glory.
We’re going to Italy for 10 days on Monday, so I’ll miss a match or two. Hope I’ll hope for the best, but expect nothing much. As trained.
well, you see faded glory…
I see another excellent job done by the manager.
you perhaps are expecting to win a title, I once thought that should be the goal too, but… no, that’s not really what we are aiming for at the moment. It is too short-term, for the current business plan.
I think Wenger has done a great job with the team. The fact that we have a chance to win the league, speaks volumes.
“The fact that we have a chance to win the league, speaks volumes.”
…about how relatively mediocre United and Chelsea have been this year. So if Wenger’s done “a great job”, Fergie is an absolute genius with how he’s managed to keep that side, lo and behold, on top of us.
Hey, nothing in the trophy case, but at least the stadium is nice and shiny, right?
they have the EPL shown all over Italy!
I am sure you can find it!
:)
Enjoy yourself.
Mmmmm, ‘Honey, listen, I know we planned this for months, and you’re really looking forward to seeing the sites, but do you mind if I watch football for a few hours?”
And, scene. ;-)
LOL.
I have done it before.
They are FOOTBALL CRAZY in Italy.
I think you are confused. The driver in this case is not our manager but those fans seeing flaws in players not at the core of the problem.
Now, for those that want to see a relation to the driver and our manager, well, lets flash back to earlier remarks.
In the past, many have criticized the driver about deficiency’s in the tire’s. So last summer, the driver purchased a new tire from Holland. Even then many critics were skeptical of this choice, as the tire brand was not high profile and the P225/70R 16 size was smaller than what the critics deemed necessary.
Then the spare tire (actually two) , both of which had been in the garage for a few years, and everyone had condemned as substandard for the quality of vehicle; one turned out to be a michelin, used primarily for defensive road duties……and the 2nd spare, once it was used in the right position with an alignment and balancing, exceeded expectations.
While many scoffed at the driver’s frugal decision making in the past, it was only this year that driving down the driver’s company debt became a reality.
Where the driver could have used his credit card to buy more tires to keep up with his competitors, its obvious that the driver’s responsibility was utilize what tires were already on hand.
Where as its been the common practice by other drivers, to drive a 75,000 mile tire for 10,000 miles and then feel a need for something with a whitewall.
LDE, I try to deal with an even hand, so I’m not sure if your comments are actually aimed at me or other posters. I certainly can’t recall criticising our younger/lesser players at all, indeed, recently I’ve praised the development of Song (and have done all season), pointed to Diaby’s growing influence, said I have been impressed by Bendtner since his return (while others have focused on his misses), I tend to stay clear of the Denilson discussions, I’ve praised the redemption of Eboue…. so the only younger/lesser player who incurs my wrath is Walcott – and frankly imo he deserves it 100%. ;-)
Neither do I lavish praise on BIG players. Indeed, in the context of our squad it’s the relative BIG players I criticise. It’s RvP, Rosicky and Eduardo who I think undermine our season. So by all means debate what I say but a little more accuracy will make your points more relevant. No need for the ‘realist’ reference.
On Arshavin and goal misses. He isn’t a striker/marksman and never has been, that is until our uber-clever manager played him at CF. For some reason Wenger escaped the flogging he deserved for that eureka moment of insanity. It only served as an opportunity to frustrate the little Russian who I recall was carrying an injury, it also gave an opportunity for opposing defences to kick him a bit more. Despite this, he has scored more goals than any other attacker. I really would encourage you to apply the same measure to the other attackers in the squad and I’ll happily discuss your points.
Perhaps you want to outline your thoughts on the contributions of RvP, Eduardo, Rosicky, and Walcott to our season? Much the same as the last 2 seasons – no?
Less You Kiwi more the others. I do believe you do deal evenly .. most of the time anyway – not that it matters. My apologies for the realist reference – but again I didn’t really think of you when I wrote that.
Lets take up your points. RVP – I dont think he’s injury prone. He’s just desperately unlucky. Yes its a big problem if he keeps going down.. true but a lot of it is real bad luck. Injury prone for me is.. fit, plays 3 .. getting fit.. then injured. It is ofcourse the same net result but RVP is badly unlucky IMO. Rosicky – He’s been eased in this season and has contributed ok in fits and starts. Pretty much what I expected. Dudu will be better next season .. and he will stay. He’s hardly played much at all in continuation.
Theo is actually more of the same but I agree .. is a little more frustrating. From the start of the game he is not good..he is still an impact player. I’d give up on him but for that wonderful pace. He’d be a flop in La Liga.. but here I still hold hope. Maybe one more season.
On Arshavin .. I have no problem with him not scoring at CF. Infact it is a miracle it actually worked a while. My grudge is more in the last 2 months when he’s looked extremely dead everytime he is on the pitch. Maybe thats body language .. maybe its not the truth and he works real hard in training. Just not seeing it in games. You saw Barcelona’s off the ball movement. Zero fouls. Aggressive beautiful pressing to win the ball. If the wide forwards dont do that in a 4-3-3 the system is sunk. And Clichy gets all the blame. Which isn’t correct IMO.
As for our uber cool manager and I do think he is uber cool ..genuinely ( unlike you ;) ) he doesnt have a choice really. RVP is crocked. Dudu was injured. Bendtner injured. Vela is in Mexico half the time. Theo is the only option left and I’d try that frankly. He has that early Owen type quality about him .. but AW thinks no. So we’re left with AA , TR or Nasri. Since TR is still recovering..and Nasri is needed with Cesc it narrows down to AA. Maybe thats why Chamakh comes in…maybe..may..be
There you go. A complete response :)
http://thegoonblog.com/2010/04/djourou-and-gibbs-careers-could-have-been-ended-by-injury/
I agree with LDE. There seems to be a tendency blaming everything on the lesser players than the star players.
Every defeat, set back, it seemed like the blame were always on a few particular players. While the star players seemed to be immune from any criticisms.
In the case of Arshavin, no doubt he is an important player for us this season. And the fact that he managed to stay healthy for a large part of the season has helped us a GREAT DEAL. For without him, when both RvP and Bendtner were out, it’s unthinkable how we be able to cope.
But if we are really going to call a spade a spade, then we gotta admit towards the later stage of the season, his form had gone, especially in terms of his shooting touch.
I do not know why. Perhaps he had burnt out.
Anyway, at least that’s what I saw.
you say “stay healthy”… he played thru injury.
I can remember him saying at one point, he couldn’t feel his foot, but played thru the pain anyway.
It is a long season, with a lot of games. I am not sure he’s used to playing that many games, I could be wrong.
…. another little reality check re Arshavin.
About two and a half years ago Fred and I discussed him as a good option for our squad. At this time the guy was off-radar – and no one was talking about him. My point is have realistic expectations about the guy – it wasn’t like we bought Diego Maradona, Ronaldinho, George Best or Ruud Gullit in their prime. He was a good little player from the Russian league who would be a useful addition to the attacking squad and didn’t cost us that much. Somewhere between then and now the expectations and reputation of Arshavin has blown out. Let’s calm down, he’s a good player, a useful experienced member of the team, yes he can do audacious things, and yes he can perform on the big stage, but this is his first go at proving himself in a major league.
Forget the magic etc ok? How many open goals has he missed recently? A guy with his technique and experience is expected to put those away.That has nothing to do with average or ‘unrealistic’ expectations as you put it.
It fits though – A realist will always defend BIG players because he has always called for them and the ‘apologists’ certain players. That’s all it is. Personally I think apart from TV5 and Song and even they aren’t blameless.. no one has been consistent enough. It is the togetherness of this team and the guts that has got us this far..nothing else.
That is all I am saying. I am blowing nothing else out of proportion.
Arshavin is copping the criticism that almost all creative attacking talents get. As though he has a button named ‘magic’ and he simply presses it when needed. If you read the Barcelona blogs you’ll even see Messi getting his fair share ;-) It’s true.
I’m not saying Arshavin hasn’t looked tired and disinterested at times – he has. Yet…. I expect a bit of that. It’s both the nature of the beast and to an extent he’s a victim of the ever-changing team and the lack in other positions. If Messi was playing in our team in Arshavin’s place alongside the likes of Eduardo and Rosicky and Bendtner and Walcott – you know he’d look tired and disinterested too. Teams are a sum of their parts – and when you put out too much that is average the whole team looks a bit average.
That’s why I get frustrated carrying the likes of Eduardo and Rosicky and Walcott – who all in their own way promise ‘tomorrow’. Well *&#@ tomorrow – we’ve been waiting 5 years for it. So you can follow Stags new way and embrace ‘tomorrow’ which really means having no expectations or you can call a spade a spade and say wake me up when you’ve finally assembled a competitive squad.
well, 5 years is a small blip on the screen in the Arsenal long-term plan…
when you look at what we spent, what we made in profit in that time, and the fact that we have always been in the top 4, its pretty damned impressive.
We ARE, most definitely, a “competitive squad”.
That’s the business model, and we are always that.
If you want a Championship Squad, well… wait 5 games. We might have that as well.
But if you want trophies every other year, we aren’t your team.
Not until the stadium debt has been reduced to the levels the club like.
It is nice to see Fulham reach the Europa League semis.
As for those folk that want to diss Arshavin – run the same measure over the other attackers at the club. Arshavin is the only attacker to have contributed anything near to what you would call a seasons effort. No one else comes even remotely close. And before you rely on your memory check the stats.
I’m also a little benevolent toward Arshavin given the ever-changing attack he lines up beside. Have we fielded the same attacking-3 for 3 games in a row? Maybe we have, but you get my point. How do you look cohesive when you have no regular combinations? This should have been a year where RvP became the great new point of focus. Well that didn’t quite transpire, no surprise there, RvP, Bendtner and Nasri were all out and instead we tried to cobble together an attack from Arshavin, and the twin crocks of Eduardo & Rosicky (but never for 2 games in a row because they can’t cope with that). And yet amazingly some still diss the guy.
Yes, I don’t understand why he gets flak.
He played thru injury… and he is legitimately the only player we have that can conjur up a magic goal from nothing.
Having an RVP and Cesc on the pitch at the same time, would only have enhanced his game.
In the attack, I think he’s essential going forward to have in our line-up.
Oh I’m not dissing him. Maybe there are reasons he played poorly etc. Those same reasons sadly will not be applied to the usual suspects in those situations. All said and done while I doubtless appreciate his goals – he’s been luxury for me and looks tired after 20 minutes every time. Brilliant player? Hell yes. Frustratingly inconsistent .. yes again. If Arshavin’s gonna struggle to deliver in this system straight away.. why buy his kind? Might as well keep grooming Nicky B’s through the system.. IMO anyway. It’d be nice if he was a little more consistent, that is it.
NickyB is Mr.Inconsistency.
Missed 5 sitters in a game, then scored 2 the next game.
Why buy his kind?
As in players that have a bit of experience and are capable of turning a game on its ear by himself? (4 goals v Liverpool)
Because we don’t have ANY of those types, and we NEED at least one.
Just my view of Arshavin.
I think he played hurt for a long time this season, and would have been helped by having other players around him near his level of skill.
All that is true and am denying nothing. Just saying that he hasnt done as well as a “mature” match winner should. He takes as much flak as the rest of our team – that is all I’m saying. If you’re(as in not u) are going to call Gael Clichy names when he plays through pain and messes up then why spare AA23.. just coz he cost money and fit into the realist template?
Dont get me wrong , I love his unpredictable genius. Right now he is showing little of it.. anywhere. Maybe he gets fit and drags us to the title with 4 goals in 4 games.. I’ll take that happily.
almost every player in our team has had his share of down moments this year…
I think Sagna and Vermaelen were probably the 2 most consistent.
But everyone else, could be better … at least more consistent.
I have no problem with Clichy at all.
I think he’s very good, and he does need a wing who TRACKS BACK some, because he goes forward regularly.
Stag you’re bouncing all over the place.
Signing players on long-term contracts means you’re less likely to get caught in a Bosman scenario with the player walking away for a free, it does not in practise lock-in your annual recurrent costs. Arsenal feel compelled to review player contracts every couple of years otherwise the player and agent will aggitate and they will leave – long term contract or not. The contract only locks-in the clubs ability to get a transfer fee when the player is on-sold.
As for your new-found all-embracing love of Arsenal’s MO – whatever, you were similarly anti a little while back. Just your swinging style, whatever you think at a given time is ‘right’ and everyone else should GET OVER IT. We’re not all swingers. ;-)
I don’t feel sorry for Arsene, Arsenal has given him the stage on which to experiment with his developmental ideals and youth project. No other club on the planet would do so. Even if he was told tomorrow by the Board “Arsene you have 60m to spend on players, go do it” I genuinely believe he would struggle with the concept. He gets off on discovering talent where no one else does, and this youth thing is the ultimate embodiment of that concept.
The downside is that he struggles to supplement this approach with enough ‘now’ players. He can’t help himself, it’s just that he’s so wed to this project and approach that he can’t refocus – buying ready-made is an affront that must make him feel like he’s undoing the good work he’s started.
But, truth is, if we come 3rd and have stayed close to the leaders all season, and got to the quarters in the CL, and sold out all our games then it’s an ok season. The deeper question is how many ‘ok’ seasons can Arsenal withstand – and its fans withstand. How long can you exist on a diet of ‘ok’ before your health suffers and you start looking like Spurs or Everton? You see Chelsea looked even worse than Spurs and Everton before it started winning things.
3rd in the league, with a chance to win the league, and Qtrs or Semi’s in the CL… is NOT “an OK season”.
It is what 98% of the teams would die for…
So, the recent seasons have been GOOD and SUCCESSFUL.
I don’t agree with you on the signings at all.
Arsenal DEFINITELY have a good idea of what they will be paying players over the next few years.
So in a sense, their costs are relatively FIXED.
What will flucuate much in that equation?
And what I believe is “right” is not what folks need to “get over”.
If I want to support the team, as well as the Arsenal Football Club, and its style of play, finances, spending policy, and money making… across the board, get over THAT.
It’s NOT sarcasm, it is SUPPORT for the cause.
I appreciate what they are doing, and trying to do… I have accepted that this is their model for success, and why not embrace it?
What option do you have as a supporter?
The alternative is to fret and stress and be angry and distressed over what we “didn’t do” in the off-seasons… and upset that we didn’t spend money on players or addressing “perceived” areas of deficiency on the pitch.
Accept, and have faith that Wenger and company have a plan, and know exactly what they are doing.
We can stand MANY MORE seasons of this type of success.
As long as the stadium is full, and the supporters are buying merchandise, and the profits are good, the model of success can be sustained endlessly.
Why would you change what we are doing?
I know your not being sarcastic Stag, but you have swung 180 degrees.
Perhaps we will endure many more 3rd/4th place seasons, with a run in the CL and no trophies. I doubt however that will be seen as success by the average punter. I also doubt it assures us of a full stadium – and as you infer once the stadium stops being full the model looks less ‘ok’.
The real issue remains despite your new sanguine mood, and that is that Arsenal have been a club that has tasted success frequently over the last 20 years (well before the last 5 anyway! ;-) ). Success begets success. The reverse is also true. If we continue down a road of no trophies then we’re missing our ultimate objective.
Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, AC Milan – they don’t see 3rd as success. Neither did we construct The Emirates and London Colney to aspire to 3rd – 1st is the goal.
Well, we are “successful”.
3rd and 4th place are succesful seasons, and a good run in the CL is all you can ask.
Its a knockout tournament for the most part, so there is no guarantee in the CL EVER.
We are not ManU Barcelona, etc.
We never were financially, so we play on a different level, below them.
When we get the debt of the stadium down to what the club deems reasonable… perhaps at that point we can SPEND with the big boys, and try to compete on their level.
Until then, we are a BIG SUCCESS, in being very competitive, having a legit chance to win the league, and making profits while lowering the debt.
None of those above teams make the profits we do.
NONE.
Right now, if we get first, that’s a huge BONUS, but it is NOT the ultimate goal in the long-term.
We are trying to maintain CL football level, and make profits and lower the debt.
Those are THE GOALS.
Excellent piece kiwi.
The only shame is Arsene is the one who has to bite the bullet, to endure operating with a tight budget while the club trying to pay off the debt.
The truth is – when the debt eventually paid off, and Arsenal finally be able to compete with the rest of the big spenders in the game, Wenger will not be here to enjoy the benefit.
That’s one major reason I think people have been very unfair to Wenger with the criticism of his (seemingly) unwillingness to spend.
Bottom line – not as if the money he saved for the club are going to his own pocket.
If he wants to earn more, and wants to have more money to spend in order to pursuit his own glory, improving his CV, he DOES NOT HAVE to stay with Arsenal.
“The truth is – when the debt eventually paid off, and Arsenal finally be able to compete with the rest of the big spenders in the game, Wenger will not be here to enjoy the benefit.”
Andez, don’t you believe that Arsene understood THIS probability.
He might have understood it, but I think he REALLY BELIEVES he can WIN despite the financial handcuffs, and having to be more frugal than the rest of the BIG TEAMS.
We are paying of the debt at a GREAT RATE.
It might be paid down faster than we ever imagined, especially if we were to off-load Cesc for 50 MILLION in the next year or two.
and in terms of BUSINESS … one thing that successful companies like to do is KNOW THEIR COSTS for the fiscal year.
By SIGNING most of the players in the squad … long-term, what we know for sure, is THE COST to the club.
If they are SIGNED, we know what they cost going forward… makes it a lot easier to have and sustain a good business model.
That is not by mistake.
“and in terms of BUSINESS … one thing that successful companies like to do is KNOW THEIR COSTS for the fiscal year.
By SIGNING most of the players in the squad … long-term, what we know for sure, is THE COST to the club.
If they are SIGNED, we know what they cost going forward… makes it a lot easier to have and sustain a good business model.”
one way at looking at contracts…….also to protect your investment in players, ex. Hleb and Flamini.
He did. In fact, initially he and David Dein didn’t want a new stadium. They perfereed to rent the old Wembley instead. So that Arsenal could remain competitive in the transfer market.
And it’s also one major reason Dein wanted to get Stan K on board so that we would have funds to compete while the stadium was built.
In the end, Peter Hill-Woods and a few of other shareholders opted for the new stadium. And didn’t want “the sort” like Stan K.
And Dein left.
How ironic.
I think the Barca model is very relevant to where we are heading in-so-far as their squad replenishment approach is concerned. They are one of the few major clubs that seek to stock their playing staff with a large proportion of ‘home-grown’players. That’s no different to what we’re trying to achieve. The difference is that they have been doing that for many years whilst we’re relatively early in the cycle.
What Barca also do is supplement the youth production line with external buys.
The net effect is that they have a ‘particular’ style of play that flows right through the club and from generation to generation of teams. The external buys need to compliment/fit this style and if they don’t measure up to their pricetag they’re dealt with in a very business-like manner which I 100% agree with – i.e. they exit (Hleb).
Seems very sensible to me. Of course it relies on good selection of the high profile buys – but that’s true for every club. The beauty is that they maintain a certain Barca-style and yet garnish that with excellence from outside. What’s not to like?????
The ownership of Barcelona is different to English clubs. Barcelona is owned by the ‘members’ who contribute financially every year. In a real sense thet’re owned by the supporters. The whole political structure/drama of Spanish clubs is very different and often runs like a soap opera – quite un-English.
Before we lose ourselves in nonsense and think the current transition is actually the main course – let’s remember that we built the stadium to grow our main revenue stream and to accommodate an appropriate match-day audience for a major club. Ultimately (as the debt is paid down) our revenue streams will be top tier and we will be competing with the top half dozen clubs for the best players. That then pre-supposes that we want to sign the best – no? If we don’t then Stag is right all we are is a revenue making business. But we’re not – no sports club is. So in the future why wouldn’t we be aiming for a base of players coming through the youth system supplemented by a couple of mega-signings like a Messi and a Torres and a few Verme’s and Sagna’s? Sounds ludicrous? Absolutely not. Isn’t that the objective? What’s so bad about having a first-team mix comprising 6 youth teamers, 2 mega-stars, and 3 astute external buys.
Our current state is as much to do with Wenger’s preference as it is our financial state. It’s a blend of both. Wenger would really struggle to buy a Messi or a Torres it’s just not his thing. But in the future post-Wenger that is exactly what will happen – it’s guaranteed. Because we all know Wenger is a rare man – a guy who derives maximum enjoyment from spotting and nurturing players into stars not buying them. Indeed the evidence shows the further he has gone in his career the greater his aversion to buying ready-made.
Wenger’s preferred style may suit the present as we pay down our debt yet ultimately we need a manager that wants to supplement a youth base with genuine ready-made talent. It’s the only way.
There is another significant factor favoring Barca and Real vs. Premier League top teams (& other
leagues).
Real & Barca control their own TV rights. Broadcast revenue is not shared with the other clubs. As I stated above, Barca despite their winning everything is $350 euro’s in debt and last year only made
about $8 million euros.
What will happen to revenue when they lose the spotlight?
The consequence for Barca and Real, is that so many of the other spanish teams are flat broke – and parity has almost disappeared from La Liga.
I don’t believe we are simply a revenue making business!
WE ARE 3RD in the LEAGUE with a chance to WIN THE FECKING THING!
It is a LEGITIMATE CHANCE. Its not some math miracle!
We have done a FANTASTIC JOB of paying down debt, making profit, PLAYING GOOD FOOTBALL of GREAT STYLE, AND… giving ourselves a legitimate chance to win the freaking LEAGUE!
Its GOOD SHREWD BUSINESS, yes… but you have to COMPETE at a high level to maintain this BUSINESS MODEL.
It is the COMBINATION that is to be applauded.
GET OVER IT.
I LOVE THE WAY WE OPERATE.
Stag,
Stop saying the club just want to MAKE MONEY. You made it sound like a bunch of greedy bastards who’s running our club.
First, those board members have been with the club for a long time, way before any of us here who had started to support the club.
And if all they care is money, let’s face it, there’s no better way to MAKE MONEY than selling their shares to that fat Ukraine guy.
You gotta ask yourself ONE QUESTION – WHY Arsenal decided to build the new stadium at the first place?
It was very very simple. Because we wanted to challenge Man Utd, Chelsea in the transfer market.
But before this day arrive, we still have to pay off our loan debt.
Sure, we generated profit every season. But ask yourself another QUESTION –
If you make 1 million a year. Yet at the same time you are owing the bank 20 millions. Do you consider yourself RICH? Would you just go out there and buy everything as you wish without thinking twice?
“If you make 1 million a year. Yet at the same time you are owing the bank 20 millions. Do you consider yourself RICH? Would you just go out there and buy everything as you wish without thinking twice?”
Honey, we can’t be overdrawn at the bank, I still have checks in the checkbook.
Who said that?
I said they want to make money…
and that’s GOOD.
They want to reduce the stadium debt, and that’s good.
AND we want to be in the hunt for the league and CL every season…
AND WE ARE.
Nobody can copy what we’ve done financially AND still compete for the trophies like we do.
STOP READING INTO WHAT I AM SAYING.
Just ACCEPT that I am on board with the ARSENAL MASTER PLAN.
Its all GOOD.
Are you saying I shouldn’t be HAPPY about us making profit?
If so, WHY THE FECK NOT.
It is something to be PROUD OF, as an ARSENAL SUPPORTER.
I will GUSH about the profit, and making money by the club.
It is a BIG POSITIVE in the long-term.
If YOU DON’T LIKE THE CLUB MAKING MONEY, too bad.
That’s how Arsenal work it, I think its GREAT.
joshuad Reply:
April 8th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Curtis Davies. Is he even still in the BPL?
————————————-
I remember many ppl blamed AW for not going for him back then.
and Chamakh does NOT seem to be a “done deal”…
he commented that it is ‘practically sure’ that he is leaving
Bordeaux, and his agent was working on where he’ll play next year…
its says that Arsenal are strongly linked…
didn’t say he was coming to Arsenal for sure!
but perhaps thats something contractual?
remember that Nasri deal?
Maybe I’m mistaken but from 1999 to 2005 – Barca didn’t win ANYTHING. All the effort was developing
their youth & picking up key players with experience to meld with the youth.
At the same time, Real Madrid was spending heavily in the transfer market.
Does this sound familiar?
Wow.
I didn’t realize that Barcelona were trying to keep their spending down and lowering their debts for 6 years like us?
or…
are we just not trying to win for 6 years to match them?
;)
Barcelona’s budget and finances have absolutely ZERO similarity to Arsenal’s… its a completely different world.
and seeing that Wenger was here in those years, and WINNING trophies and Doubles…
are you saying Barcelona copied us before we copied them?!
LOL
“Wow.
I didn’t realize that Barcelona were trying to keep their spending down and lowering their debts for 6 years like us?”
Those are your words.
Actually Barca’s debt is as large as Pools. No new stadium to show for the debt. Last season when they won everything, they only made abt $8 mil euro.
No need for me to try & explain my point. You keep moving the goal posts of EVERY discussion.
I am extremely interested in Barca’s finances vis a vis our own…Please explain how they do it. (Anybody?)
From the Guardian – An interview with the Arsenal Physio. Provides updates on Cesc and Robin Van Persie.
Arsenal’s physio, Colin Lewin, says Cesc Fábregas “will comfortably make the World Cup” and that Robin van Persie will return to training with the club imminently.
“Cesc is doing well. He is likely to be out for the rest of the season with a hairline crack of his fibula,” Lewin told arsenal.com. “If everything goes well he will comfortably make the World Cup and we will be constantly monitoring him. The injury was certainly as a result of the tackle by Carlos Puyol at the end of the Barcelona game.
“There were some ill-informed media reports that the fracture was sustained before the Barcelona game and those reports, put simply, were untrue. He suffered heavy bruising in the Birmingham City game but to suggest that someone can run around for 85 minutes against Barcelona with a fractured fibula is just farcical.”
Meanwhile, Arsenal’s attacking options for the Premier League run-in are likely to be bolstered by the return of Van Persie, who has not played since suffering an ankle injury on international duty with Holland in November.
“Robin will be joining the squad for full training imminently,” said Lewin. “That is a big boost for the club and to see Johan [Djourou] and Kieran [Gibbs] training with the team in the next fortnight will give everyone a big lift.”
In terms of our squad for the future I think Kiwi and Josh both make good points. We have a lot of talent coming up AND we’ve had a ton of injuries. Together it all spells the same thing: at this point we do not have a critical set of attacking players we can count on, at least when we play teams at our own level. If we evaluate the season to date, we have done very, very well securing results against lesser teams, but have consistently faltered against the best ones (even if some would argue that these teams(United, Chelsea and Barca) have taken a step back from where they were last season.
Obviously, we are not Barca, nor are we United, Chelsea, ManCity or Real Madrid. And, despite the protests of some supporters, there is more emphasis on balancing current results with a sensible financial plan for building a positive future. When it comes to buying players we will continue in the vein of Theo, Nasri, Ramsey and Vermaelen and less like Arshavin. The former may or may not come good (and who knows when?) the latter did his job last season (kept us in the top 4, but we could also just thank Villa for imploding) but was unable to carry us to greater heights this season. By being a “special case,” (older, guaranteed a first team spot no matter how perfunctory–i.e., lazy–his efforts might be, and spouting off on his website for manipulation in the media) we can also argue that Arshavin takes away from the “collective spirit and belief” that we’re trying to cultivate. If Chamakh is coming (and Andrey is staying) I think it means ALL our attackers will need to fight for their pitch time (a very good thing.)
But I’m with Chicago in feeling that our real problems are at the back. I’ve said it before, but missing out on Chris Smalling, I think, will continue to bite us. The pressure on Djourou to play AND stay healthy at the level of TV5 is immense. We need to find another youngish, mobile, footballing CB able to handle the rigors of English Football or else get ready for Alex Song back there (and Denilson with a regular starting spot ahead of him).
And keeper….Well, for now at least, I’m not even gonna go there….
Chris Smalling got his props on the strength of one good game against Drogba. I’ve watched him quite a few times since and he’s not that cold; certainly not for ten million quid.
It’s the same as that one kid (who I can’t even remember his name) that someone wanted big money for because he played a good game against Thierry Henry. Who even remembers what that guys name is?
Curtis Davies. Is he even still in the BPL?
I know it’s premature and we’ve got a massive derby match (for our slim title hopes AND in the race for the final CL spot AND in our relations with the ancient enemy) but I’ve been thinking A LOT about how our recent CL match relates to the World Cup….
I find it, er, let’s say, “very strange” that some of the best players on our roster (RVP, Cesc, Gallas and Song) were ALL unavailable for the CL quarterfinals but will ALL be playing for their national teams in South Africa. Add in Vela and Djourou and it almost feels like…something is up. (I’ll stop short of “conspiracy” for the moment….)
Meanwhile you’ve got younger players Theo, Diaby, Nasri, Clichy, Bendtner (with Nat’l teams going to South Africa) all being given a “big stage” to prove themselves ahead of the WC.
It reminds me of the old testament and the story of Joseph, who prophesized 7 years of plenty followed by 7 of famine, but, sort of, in reverse.
AW, I think, will be signing on for more time as our Manager and his goal will be to reverse the famine of the past 4 years with the glory of the next (to secure his legacy, leave the club in a good state, etc.)
Part of that is elevating the club’s stature throughout the world. Like it or not, television is what drives the (very unfair) world of club football and Arsenal (Ar$enal?) are well positioned to make big gains in the future. But it all starts with creating interest in the club. If RVP and Holland, Cesc and Spain, Vela and Mexico, all the French players, can get their teams to the final or semis or even quarters, well, that’s good for Arsenal. Even Song for Cameroon, Bendy with Denmark and Djourou for Switzerland, will be identified as “Arsenal” players and fans will watch them differently because of it.
What this means, for the club is hard to say. (And, as an idiot noobie, maybe the more seasoned observers can help me here…) but I’m interested to see how it all plays out and wondering if our late season injury woes, this year at least, aren’t all just a little too….something or other….
who wears the the technicolor dream coat?
Sorry, I meant to post the above as a new comment…oops…
And I meant to reply to Josh about Smalling, saying that I trust the club/AW’s valuation of players and if they didn’t go for Smalling then he’s prolly not all that. I just think that we’re looking for a certain type of defender (biggish, mobile, skilled) who can maybe play some DM as well and there aren’t all that many of them out there (and Kyle Bartley and Harvard Nordveit might eventually be “internal solutions”). It’s just another way in which AW/Arsenal are changing the game generally, but it might be hurting us a bit in the short term.
Again, sorry about bungling my post above….
We are changing the game?
Why aren’t the other teams copying us then?
They are….(United, in this case) and they’re overpaying for poor talent (based on joshuad’s scouting).
Of course, only time will tell (if Smalling was a good buy for United….or if we cheaped out. Certainly he’s helping neither team at the moment.)
The current iteration of the Barcelona model is really interesting and one worthy of contemplation.
We can see the current side has a solid base of Barca youngsters – most are Spanish lads bred through the youth system and some like Messi are signed very young and very much Barca-honed youth products. But what Barca seem to also do well is to supplement this base with selected external buys – some marquee signings (Eto, Henry, Ibrahimovic) and a number of others that largely go under the radar (like Yaya Toure & their fullbacks).
What is interesting is that when Barcelona spend big it tends to be on attacking talent. I think this would also sit comfortably with Arsene. Being an attacking coach committed to entertainment he values rare attacking talent. And if you look at Arsene’s record you’ll see that his bigger buys tend to be attacking. What I am hoping is to see Arsene ramp up this aspect as the stadium debt reduces to evermore sustainable levels.
Frankly, I’m fine with him buying relatively budget in defence with the Verme’s and Sagna’s and the Gallas/Campbell ‘freebies’ – but in attack we need to think lavish recruitment that matches our aspirations as one of the few true attacking entertainers alongside Barcelona. Come on, if Barcelona with their production line think it necessary to cherry pick the best attacking talent to fuse on the sharp end of their well oiled passing machine why do we pretend we can grow it?
Arshavin was Arsene’s somewhat grudging admission of our lack, so we really need him to ramp it up even more. Sit back and assess this season dispassionately, whilst our overall goal tally is ok, we lack goals at the sharp end. Arshavin (9) and Fabregas (15) contributed the lions share and after that was Verme. That’s not good enough for a team that favours attack over defence. Our attackers should be amongst the highest scoring in the EPL with our possession and chances – they’re not – and that needs to be rectified.
Having said that about Arshavin.. I think he’s been poor overall .. this season.
…perhaps, but he has contributed the most of any attacker by a long long shot.
Arshavin: very disappointing for me. Arshavin must have taken Ade’s old locker, for he has caught the laziness bug.
Kiwi, I think Bendtner will surpass Arshavin, but you are right about our weak front line………
but isn’t this how the season started out – even with RvP?
First 4 or 5 matches – all goals from CB’s and midfielders.
It’s why I don’t think Eduardo’s going anywhere. We simply don’t need to sell him and he can be very deadly in attack. He just has this intuitive way about him that allows him to get into scoring positions; just lacking descent pace.
With that, we’ve got some young hot-shots that are desperate to make it at Arsenal so he’s got to transform his predatory skills into goals. It’s hard to jetisson a player like Eddie because we know how clinical he can be.
You can forget about us modeling Barcelona in anything except “attempted style of play”.
They operate on a completely different budget level, as do Real Madrid. Spain is different to England.
We do NOT and are NOT bringing in big name players to complement our team.
If we do, then why now? If that is the formula for success, then why didn’t we do it pre-season, or in January?
With us 3 points back in the league, it could be argued that we would have WON the league if we invested heavily.
(no guarantees in life though)
So, why stray from a successful football and business model at this point?
No thanx.
Two things regarding Chamakh:
First, Wenger hasn’t replaced Adebayor and I’m sure what he made Arsenal in transfer fees and wages are still available against the budget when we bring in Chamakh. That means there is no need to sell Eduardo. However, Eduardo’s got to prove himself this coming pre-season or Wenger may tell him to find another team. We’ve got young hot-shots like Watt, Simpson, and JET who are chomping at the bit to be in the team. If they look better than Eddie in the pre-season, he’s done.
Second, Wenger’s a scary-good judge of talent. Who knew that Chamakh would play so well before last season? The same goes for Edin Dzeko. Wenger mentioned he liked the kid, then the next season, Dzeko takes the Bundesliga by storm and wins the Budnesliga. There’s nobody like Arsene.
I don’t think Rosicky’s going anywhere. He’s just coming back to his best and I think, after a proper pre-season, he’ll be in the first eleven and no one will question it. He was dead on his feet against Barclona, though.
Rooney playing is no surprise. It has nothing to do with him being tough. I told you guys that was a three-day ankle sprain. It required him rest for three days, run for two, train for two, then he’s good to go. If he can go the rest of the season without rolling it again, he’ll be fine. Even if he does, he can probably still run through it.
If Carlos forgot his passport, then I’ve got to agree with stag. He is an idiot. Regardless of talent, Wenger has very little tolerance for players doing stupid stuff. Look at how quickly he jetissoned the likes of Quincy and Pennant. Why, because they were stoooopid. As good as Los is, he’s not better than Quincy. Q was kept out of the invincible’s squad but no one would have kept him out of this one. Vela had better get his shit together before Wenger ships that ass to Benfica (hopefully for Angel Di Maria).
Wenger needs to buy a new CB. He only has Vermaelen and Djourou under contract, with none of the reserves looking ready for the first team. We just better hope that he finds someone he likes. As thin as we might be at that position in the summer, Wenger’s not going to buy someone he doesn’t really like. No such likelihood with GK. Wenger knows Almunia is better than he’s played this season. But, this might be his last chance, too.
I know I wrote a lot but I just tried to reply to all the posts I remember having a point to make.
Great prediction on the ankle JoshD. I think you were the only one who got it right here. Predicting scores and results and how we’re going to be thrashed by every big team is something everyone do and get terribly wrong..and sometimes right. Predicting a medical condition and getting it right when the world said it was not possible.. Yeah maybe he played on painkillers.. but he did..well done!
Not sure Josh,
What is the pre-season going to tell Arsene about Eduardo that he can’t gauge over a full season? I don’t get the logic.
Rosicky – what have you got to back up your assertion that he will be better next season other than nice feelings about the player?
On the CB’s I agree, obviously something has to shake down or we’re really in the crap. We just don’t have the numbers if the players walk on free’s.
For Eduardo, Wenger would be giving him a bit more time to get fitter. If he can’t recover enough to be effective in the BPL and those other kids are……
Certainly, we’ll be hoping for the best for Eduardo but this is business.
Tomas was injured for a long time. When you’re injured, it takes the same amount of time to get back to your best. Unlike Eduardo, Rosicky’s injury hasn’t affected his ability to contribute effectively. He’s coming back to his best. I think he played hurt on Tuesday after the challenge from Henry but the boy has got talent, experience, and a big heart.
I just don’t think there will be anybody on the roster that can keep him out of the team. If Arshavin was more consistent, he might have a chance but he blows hot and cold, where Tomas is steady. Maybe a fully fit Arshavin but no one else on Arsenal’s roster.
And factor in the Celtic and media uproar for Eduardo’s apparent dive…….this psychologically is huge on a striker’s confidence. Even last summer, some were saying the effects of this might linger all season.
For me, Eduardo reminds me of Olic (less 7 kg). This type of cunning player is a rarity. Can’t see Arsene giving up on Eduardo.
Ditto for Rosicky. For the last 6 weeks he’s been off the radar, but quietly his game is returning.
Scored in death to tie one match. Provided beautiful cross to Diaby for winning goal at Pool. Supplied header (assist) to Sol, for the away goal at Porto. Played a strong 90 minutes recently, playing very ‘industrious’ throughout the match.
Every time we lose a match; many want to have a fire sale.
wake us up when they’re fit, if ever
well, I think we need to start making room for some of the younger players…
so selling off Eduardo or RVP might be good business at this point.
Rosicky really hasn’t shown much in the last few years… I like the player when he’s fit, but that’s RARE.
He isn’t close to Arshavin when both are 100%, not from what I have seen of both in the last 2 seasons.
So, if we can get good money for him, I’d sell him as well.
As you said, we’ve got some youngsters knocking on the door, sell off the old for profit, and bring in the kids.
At the back, I think Gallas might still sign, and Sol can still play as well, one more year.
Gallas, Djourou, Vermaelen and Campbell… are a good 4 to have at CB.
How many do you want at that position, when we rarely switch up the starters anyway.
Song can play there as well.
I wouldn’t go spending money on CB, unless it was short money, and we don’t bring back Gallas.
Plus, didn’t Rosicky just sign a new contract in the fall? That’s not usually indicative of a player not being in Wenger’s plans.
I believe we have signed EVERYBODY, except for Gallas and maybe one or two others.
Stag, why on earth you have become so sarcastic these days?
Andez.. how did you upload that KoolAid thing? I searched a lot and couldnt find it. I want to put that up too :D
LDE,
I just Google it (Google image)! Type KoolAid, lot of it there!
btw when u upload it, don’t upload to “current Avatar”, use “your photo” instead. You will then get a bigger pic than a tiny one!
No I meant.. where did you click here on this site.. after you got the image?
When u log on to this site, did you see the “Dashboard” page?
From there, you go “profile” – “Avatar upload”.
If after you log on you go straight to the forum, then maybe u should try logging out, then log in again, u should be able to see the “dashboard” page.
Thanks I got that. Then when I tried to upload I couldn’t due to some permission problems apparently. Mailed DAG. Now I lost my nice existing avatar also :(
Andez.
I am sorry to inform you of this, but I am 100% NOT BEING SARCASTIC.
Here’s the deal.
I have actually taken what a few posters on this site have said, to heart.
I have simply adjusted my expectations, and realized and accepted what Arsenal Football Club, AND Arsene Wenger are trying to do.
I can respect it.
Most fans might not like it, but I can respect how they stick to their guns and plan.
In terms of MAKING MONEY… why not SUPPORT that effort as well.
I actually will ROOT for us to make money. It is like any statistic, it can be charted like goals and assists.
What is wrong with that?
So, I am sorry to dissapoint you, but no sarcasm here.
I want us to win the league, but if we don’t… I understand, its a long-term deal.
We are balancing finance, profit, AND trying to win with a beautiful style of the pitch.
If you want trophies every year, Arsenal is NOT the club to support.
As long as we’re in the hunt, with a chance, what is there to complain about… as we know Wenger, his ways, and what the board is trying to accomplish.
I love the club, hope we win ON and OFF the pitch.
5 games left, and we have a chance to win the league… why the hell would you or anyone be advocating massive change in what we’ve done?
“Frustrated? No. Disappointed? Yes.”
DAG, that sums it up perfectly !!!
This season will determine the future of Arsene and Arsenal. I said right after the Chelsea home thrashing, that if we don’t win anything this year, I really doubt it ever happening under Arsene again. Our league chances are quite low, but let us give it one BIG shot and see where it goes. Then we will have a long time to talk about the team, the changes we want to see and the future.
We have a decent chance, as Chelsea have a few tough road games.
and why would you want to change a formula that has been very successful for the Arsenal FC?
Not much is going to happen in the near future, as the club have had another great season across the board.
You gotta wonder if the risk/return trade-off is worth it with South American players coming to England. They seem to find adjusting tricky in general terms, and then there is the horrendous travel issue when they travel ‘home’ for the pesky internationals. Bert was a model pro, yet even he seemed to test Arsene’s patience with international commitments – yet he was playing for the ultimate team – Brazil!
I get the feeling Arsene tests out different localities for recruitment and then moves on if ‘issues’ manifest. Africa is a case in point with the ACoN, and perhaps South America too. Asia is quite untapped and given the potential fanbase growth signing 1 or 2 for the squad might not be a bad idea.
Well, I think Carlos Tevez is worth whatever perceived issues come with him.
Special players, are worth the trouble.
In Tevez case very true, I forgot about him ;-)
… but how many South American’s have made an impression in England? Not many.
My point however is more Arsenal-centric. Arsene scans around looking for talent, yet talent alone is not enough. The player has to make the adjustment to England, the living environment and the on-field playing style. It’s true Bert and to a lesser extent Edu did a good job for us. Then you throw in their international commitments and the adverse impact that has and you see if the return is worth it.
I think Arsene has mitigated his African-risk by selling Toure and Adebayor – the ACoN has a lesser negative impact on the squad. He might be carefully observing Vela and making a mental calculation of how he adapts, the travel impact etc…. just musing.
and ManU just signed a Mexican player, so it can’t be too much of a problem.
If you can play, you’ll get signed.
The Vela situation has been truly bizzare for 2 seasons now. On many ocassions we have been hanging out for a decent attacking option and he is almost never used. Weird. I can only assume there is an attitudinal issue lurking and Wenger is showing some tough love.
I’d agree with that assessment.
I just saw this story in the Mirror. It seems that Carlos Vela was left off the squad for Barca because he forgot his Passport and Wenger was fuming at him.
Wenger said it was based on competition but the Mirror is using the passport story as the real reason.
Vela has talent for sure but maybe there are other things going on as to why he is not getting his fair share of time.
Ummm.
If he “forgot his passport”…
then he is a DUMBASS… and he shouldn’t have played.
A prescient letter published in the F365 mailbox (I doubt this is what Diaby actually thought, but it could very well have turned out badly anyways):
[Maybe Diaby Just Made Informed Decision]
There’s been a lot of talk this morning about how different things could have been had Diaby spotted Walcott’s run on 20 minutes instead of passing to Bendtner.
Is it not conceivable that Diaby did spot Walcott, but with Walcott having so nearly f***ed up in the same position only minutes earlier, Diaby thought thought “Sod it, I’ll just give the ball straight to Bendtner”?
Senan, London
He probably spotted Theo, and just made the WRONG decision.
or
He missed spotting the wide open Walcott.
Either way, it probably ended our chances to win the match.
We needed to be almost perfect to win. Diaby just had a bad day.
Lets not overlook the fact that our 1st goal:
Diaby makes tackle at mid-field – knocks the ball off Barca player, Nasri nicks the ball
back to Diaby, who immediately plays Theo through. IMMEDIATELY IS THE KEY POINT.
Then Theo bundles the square pass to Bendtner – only for Bendtner to make something of nothing.
If I’m Diaby, I not taking chances on Theo (again). (my speculation)
so you don’t pass to a player with a wide open run to goal…
If that’s the case, Diaby shouldn’t be playing.
Earlier some had insinuated he took too long over the ball or didn’t see Theo……I’m stating that Diaby has excellent vision and is capable of making quick decisions.
Theo was not his first choice.
who is OPEN is the reason for 1st or 2nd choice.
Its instinct.
You don’t look and go, oh, thats Theo, I’ll go the other way.
Again, if he’s thinking that way, he shouldn’t be playing.
Yeah. You’re absolutely right. You know more about who to pass to than Abu Diaby does.
If one guy is WIDE OPEN, and the other IS NOT,
then yes, I do.
Five games will define the next 4 years (Arsene’s new contract extension).
——————————————
So so true Kiwi.
No. I disagree.
I think the fact that we are down to the wire with a pretty good chance to win the league with 5 games left, shows that we are SUCCESSFUL at what Arsenal FC are trying to accomplish.
It’s been a success, and I doubt the 5 games will define anything, win or lose the league.
It’s already been DEFINED.
It’s a massive success for the club this season.
If we win the title, and I know it’s relatively long odds for that to happen, then the whole complexion of things will change. It would be like opening the curtains to a new bright sunny day after a bleak winter. Old gripes would be tempered by an infusion of real belief not just talky uppy.
If we don’t win the title we (club and fans) remain in this desert of tomorrow with little to celebrate. We all know in a broad sense what Arsene will do (and won’t do). So we wait and see what transpires over the next 5 games. Five games will define the next 4 years (Arsene’s new contract extension).
Chamakh’s arrival might signal Eduardo’s departure. Chamakh on a free oiling the loss we will incur on Eduardo’s ‘sale’. Rosicky should go too. Honestly, even now he’s wrapped in cotton wool. Playing 90 min’s on the weekend means he plays like a poodle in the biggest glamour game for years. How can a club of our standing tolerate that. If Eduardo and Rosicky go we could probably carry RvP, not that I expect a full season of Robin ever. So release Eduardo and Rosicky, bring in Chamakh, keep Robin, and buy a serious wide player – a star. Personally I’d sell Theo as well, yet my instinct tells me Arsene is wed to him and thus we’ll just have to wait eternally for him to improve marginally.
So Chamakh, Bendtner, RvP, Arshavin Nasri, Walcott, + star. We need 7 given the fragility of RvP and the fragility/dvelopment-lead-time/ability of Walcott. If we did that I reckon we’d be set in attack. We need to remember that it’s not just the starters, we need genuine ability off the bench. And we need cover for RvP – cause he WILL be out again.
All very well and good, but I still think the core defense(ie, CB and GK) need far more work than the attack.
I hear what you’re saying – yet Arsene’s attitude about GK and defence is well defined. So… we’re whistling in the wind expecting a mindset change – sorry.
Attack however is a different matter.
True, if we WIN THE LEAGUE, why would we really need to do anything?
We will have defied the odds, and beaten all the teams that spend spend spend.
It would really be a shining endorsement of Arsenal and Wenger’s frugal policy. Actually, even if we don’t win it, but come close, it signals that we are doing the right, smart, long-term thing.
I don’t think we need wholesale changes… disagree on Theo Walcott, and we’ve scored 75 goals this season… so the attack is not so far off from the best in the league.
3 things:
1. CK saying above that we lack players in several key positions.
2. Arsene ‘claiming’ (we all know this is very dubious) to spend in the summer.
3. Chamakh possibly (likely?) coming on a free.
They are all related. The way I see it, is if we get Chamakh, RVP can play the wing, which is probably his best position anyways. This helps our depth at Winger, and at CF. That leaves 3 spots left: GK, CB, and DM. Since Chamakh is coming for free, and we could sell Eduardo and Rosicky who don’t contribute at all anymore, Arsene had better TRY to fill those spots. Just try, that’s all I ask.
I’d be happy if he made an effort to fill 2 of those 3 positions. GK and CB are more pressing than DM I think, but will Arsene buy a GK? The funny thing about Defenders is Arsene rarely seems to go for them them, but when he does, he sure does get good ones. On the team now: Sagna, Toure, Gallas, Vermaelen, and Sol (twice). Throw Clichy in there too I guess. It’s not that he can’t spot good talent back there. He can when he wants to.
the addtional of chamakh, if anything, at least guarantee we have a back up for RvP.
And I agree GK is definitely a priority. If I were AW and have 20 mil to spend, I wouldn’t mind to spend it all on a GK.
just look at how Chelsea had transformed since Petr Cech arrived, and how Man U failed to win anything for 3 years until the arrival of van der Saar.
if we look back the championship won the past 2 decades, every title team, except for Leeds (with our old boy Lukic) had at least a international class keeper in goal – Schmeichel, Seaman, Lehmann, Flowers, van der Saar, Cech.
I don’t that Chamakh would come to Arenal to be backup. He is going to go somewhere he can start.
he doesn’t decide whether he starts or not, Arsene Wenger does.
Chamakh hasn’t done anything to come in and be an automatic starter.
Yeah, and there’s teams out there where it wouldn’t be a question.
Well, as I have heard on here numerous times, spending money is by no means a guarantee of getting players that can help you win.
I wouldn’t want us to spend 20 Million, unless we are making money by selling players to compensate for that spending.
20 Million on one player? That’s a bit much, isn’t it? I don’t think any player is worth that much money. What if he flops or gets injured? What a waste.
I am sure Wenger and his scouts can find a cheap back-up for Almunia, if it isn’t Mannone or Fabianski. One more year might be just what they need.
Buying 3 players ChicagoGooner?
That’s not what Arsenal and Wenger do, so I wouldn’t think it possible, nor would I advocate it, unless there are others going out to compensate.
Think a bit more LONG-TERM… we have some very exciting young players, they just need a chance, as Song, Ramsey, & Bendtner were really starting to show.
PATIENCE.
Personally, I think AW’s take on the defeat was more valid –
“What we did was very positive but we lacked maturity in the weight of the final ball.”
Key words – FINAL BALL.
Perhaps it’s an irony – considered we are still very much an attacking side which scored plenty of goals.
Still, a whole list of our attacking players are guilty of lack of the maturity in terms of handling the final ball.
I’m not just talking about Diaby’s poor decision in the Barca match. In fact, it happened every game all season long.
How often we saw Eboue’s charging run which seemed unstoppable at times, only when he got to the scoring position and either made a poor pass, or stopped and didn’t know what to do next?
Diaby’s smooth as silk dribbling run which saw him driving past a few defenders, only to send a final pass to… the opposition…
Theo used his pace to outrun a couple of defenders, before crossing a ball to no man land…
Bendtner’s tendency to miss sitters..
Clichy and Sagna, time and time again were guilty of poor crosses…
Even Arshavin, towards the later stage of the season, seemed to have lost his shooting touch.
This is one area we definitely need to work on it.
Well, I’m not so sure about the problems of us scoring goals.
We’ve got 75 in the league… only United and Chelsea have more.
Timing of when the goals are scored, seems to be what you are talking about… and that happens with experience sometimes.
Wenger said the CL run was a good experience for the young players, and I think that’s what he means.
They’ll learn and improve from the matches in the CL, and there is no bigger stage than versus the Barcelona’s of the world.
I’d think we could improve a bit defensively, at keeper perhaps…
but if Arsene Wenger sees Almunia as the long-term solution, well… he knows more about it than I do, so if he goes with Almunia next season… I’m sure he’ll get a bit better as well. He’s an excellent shot stopper, he just needs to work on other parts of his game.
DAG,
Yes, I have been impressed with the tenacity and mental strength of this team, all those being traits which they have not shown for the previous 2 seasons. I do disagree with you however by blaming it on injuries. Barca also had 5 starters out for the game and put out a classic Arsenal “midget” front line in Messi, Pedro and Bojan, the latter 2 not being starters. Henry, Ibra, Puyol and Militi were out. Iniesta could not start and it’s was Abidal first game back.
Our team is strong in AM but very imbalanced at DM, Wing and central striker. In fact, even with RVP in the team we still don’t have a true central striker. As for GK, forget about that. Almunia does not belong on a EPl pitch and he is our starter.
The real problem is that Arsene has not methodically put this team together as he did with his former teams, but has somehow put together a mishmash of football players who are skilled but don’t complement each other. Walcott is our only pace on the wing. Diaby, Rosicky, Ramsey, Denilson, Nasri, Merida and Fab are all AM’s. Song is our only “real” DM.
Injuries will affect us more than other teams because of these inherent weaknesses. We lost because Barca had a lot of interchangeable parts and we did not.
Carib, I think that’s a bit harsh.
This “mishmash” of a team is in 3rd place with 5 games left, and a legitimate chance of winning the league.
I would say that even with our best line-up, it is not likely we would have beaten Barcelona.
We played the best team in the world (in my opine)… and they did us in.
No shame in that.
Wenger put together a very competitive, good young team, that COULD win the league.
He didn’t over spend, or really spend at all… we made more than we spent in the Summer.
So… I think Arsene and the board are shrewd business people, who have a slightly different perspective on how to do things, and what is important… in comparison to the ManU, ManCity, Chelsea, and Liverpools of the EPL.
Barcelona and Real Madrid are a completely different kettle of fish, so competing with them is not reality in terms of spending power.
We’ve done well.
We lost to Barcelona, because they were just a better football team, with virtually endless resources.
An excellent read about the Barca tie, Wenger, and Arsenal in general:
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_6079953,00.html
Yes Stag, apparently Marouane Chamakh will be joining us for free in the summer.
Although it has not been officially confirmed, I believe it will happen.
In fact, I thought this deal was going to happen in January. Cos Bordeaux had a real chance losing him for Bosman if they dont sell him then. But they didn’t.
Then I read ppl hailed Chamakh’s “loyalty” to the club. Loyalty my ass. The thing about Bosman is – since club do not need to pay transfer fees for him, the player would get a bigger sign-on fee, along with a bigger contract. Cos the club will be able to allot the transfer budget to his wage. That’s why Sol Campbell was tempted to join Arsenal at the first place in his first spell. Or why Flamini left.
no matter how i see it, it cannot be just rumor. Cos this deal makes perfect sense, and is a classic AW deal.
YES.
Well, Bordeaux has a shot of winning the league again, for the 2nd straight year.
So, keeping him, helps that cause.
They also had the CL to play (out to Lyon today)
so, they rolled the dice, and instead of selling him off for a profit, they figured having him help them WIN their league, was more important to the club and the supporters.
I know, that is not the Arsenal way, of costing the club the money it could have sold him for, but winning the league is more important to Bordeaux, obviously.
FREE for Chamakh… is classic Arsenal.
Great stuff.
I hope he continues to improve here, if he comes aboard.
That’d be great.
Just wonder who will be going out to make room for him.
Eduardo? RVP?
United OUT on away goals.
I am sort of dissapointed, as I wanted them to have
the extra games in the Champions League, so they
couldn’t concentrate solely on the league … like Arsenal.
(and Chelsea)
any little bit will help in the run in… fatigue and possible
injuries due to extra matches might have hindered United’s League chances…
but oh well…
AMAZED that Rooney played… 8 days out, and he started.
Must be some good drugs!
Makes you wonder why Arsenal players can’t recover ON TIME, while other teams’ players can recover AHEAD of time. Our players take 4x longer than what is stated, he took about 1/4th of what was stated
Well, he’s a British Bulldog!
He is not a typical Arsenal player, who are much more finesse…
Different type of player and mentality.
Man U winning 3-1 (4-3 agg) at HT. Not too bad, tho- if Bayern score just 1 w/o conceding they go thru. Man U was up 3-0 until Olic scored just before the halftime whistle. That guy’s been clutch in this tie.
And now Utd down to 10 men w/ Rafeal’s 2nd yellow.
OH!! Kick-ass goal from Robben! Sort of like THAT goal Zidane scored against Leverkusen in the CL final.
OFF TOPIC:
Marouane Chamakh has scored again in the CL. Only Messi and Ronaldo have scored more.
Chama Chama Chamakhemeleon!
Yes, he looks good.
But I’d like to see him hold up an Arsenal shirt first.
Is he a FREE TRANSFER in the Summer?
If we can get him on a free transfer, and sell off RVP or Bendtner and maybe Eduardo… that would be some shrewd business.
ka-CHING.
$ ;) $
yeaaah baby.
I have to admit that I wasn’t that big on him but he has been the man for Bordeaux in the CL. Seems to be a big game player.
well, what I have seen of him looks pretty good this season…
I believe he’s coming on a free transfer… what is better than that?
It allows us to sell off one of our oft-injured or underperforming strikers…
Good Business.
One or two key players getting injured for a duration is inevitable. Having 5 or more players out for significant periods of time (2 or more months) is a freak of nature.
We’ve had our injuries sure. Wh doesn’t. We’ve never handled injuries as well as we have this year. This shit has a way of catching up with you. In the Champion’s League with that many players out it was a case of inevitability.
I think there is enough talent of the non-injured players to beat the remaining teams we face. That could be boosted if RvP comes back like they are saying we will be okay for the league.
I am always the optimist. Especially at the start of a new season
New Season?
There are still 5 MASSIVE games left for the league title!
Less “key” injuries, and we might have really wound up Barcelona… and we might have nicked a draw or two against ManU or Chelsea … head to head.
If that happened, we’d be top of the league with 5 to play.
We aren’t that far away from the pinnacle of the EPL.
There are never any guarantees but I would suspect that a healthier Arsenal squad will do much better than one that is held together by band-aids and tape.
————————————————————————————————————–
DAG, what makes you think Arsenal will stay healthy next year? For the past four years, injury has had a snowball effect on Asenal:
Stage 1: a few injuries here and there early on. Fair enough, happens to everyone.
Stage 2: AT LEAST one (if not more) key players pick up injuries, and meanwhile, those injuries from stage 1 have for some reason taken 2-3x longer to heal than initially reported by the Club.
Stage 3: 2-3 guys pick up smallish injuries. At the start of the year, players who pick up small knocks and are out for less than 1 month are not a problem b/c others can fill in. But at this point in the season, when we have players who pick up small knocks and will only be out a short while, it becomes a MASSIVE problem, b/c we have a gazillion players out already, who picked up long-term injuries earlier in the season. Thus there is no cover.
Stage 4: We come to the most critical game(s) of the season and are left with only half of our first-choice starting XI, the remainder filled in by players who either: a) too young/inexpereienced for the massive occasion they find themselves suddenly thrust into; b) lack significant match experience and thus don’t play well w/ the others; or c), just aren’t good enough.
This has happened every single year for the last four years, so I am not as optimistic as you are about Arsenal being healthy ‘next year’. I’ll believe it when I see it.
That’s very negative. We probably won’t be “healthy” next year either, but a few less KEY injuries would go a long way to us making another great run in the league, and at least the QuarterFinals of the CL next year.
That’s what the goal is, and I have to believe we’ll be able to maintain that level of success next year as well.
We’ll win our share of games, we’ll scare a few big fish, and we’ll lower the debt and make a profit in 2010-2011.
Who knows, if we are able to off-load Cesc for 40 to 50 million GBP, we might spend say… 20 Million on a few new, younger players… and we’ll have a bit more depth in key positions.
Seems like a good trade off across the board.
If he STAYS, well… we have our leader and best player for at least another year.
Seems like a pretty good scenario to me.
AFC is achieving 100% of its goals.
#3 in the Prem.
Semis in the CL.
#1 when it comes to potential.
I believe!
Quarters in the CL.
Correct, thank you.
Yes, we are doing what we need to do, to keep up with the Jones’…
We are very competitive on the pitch, and we are doing it on a much tighter budget than the bigger teams.
So, we should be applauded… its not easy to do.
With a few bounces going our way, a bit better refereeing, and NOT losing our BEST players to injury, we could really take the league, and maybe make a bit deeper run in the CL.
I’m all for performance art, but if you’re really starting to believe this…AFC is not the Minnesota Twins or Florida Marlins…some small market team who deserve to be be applauded for almost managing to keep up with the Yankees and Red Sox.
This is a Club that has made a corporate decision to sell ‘almost good enough’ as ‘great’. They might as well pitch ‘Wait until next year’ as an environmentally sound tag line, because it can be recycled annually.
As I’ve said before, LDE suggested as much (about the Board) a couple of seasons ago. He said that maybe they were okay with not winning, as long as we kept it close. I called him cynical. You were right, LDE. I was wrong.
Injuries, BS. We were dominated by United, Chelsea and Barca this year. We’re not on the tier with the very best, and only the fact that they have slipped up at various points during the season helped create the illusion otherwise. (And yeah, yeah. United won the League without beating the top 4 before. So what? United find ways to win. That’s their history, not ours.)
As you know, we ARE one of the bigger teams. We play in the big city in a big stadium. For the purposes of this discussion, the idea that we’re some scrappy little side just trying to keep up is silly.
0 wins against the best teams we played this year isn’t competitive. We’re a third place team, again. Isolated on it’s own, excuses can and are being made for this year. But we’ve consistently been third and there’s been a consistent ‘third place is good enough’ mentality from the hierarchy. ‘Almost’ good enough is ‘Not’ good enough. This year isn’t an aberration determined by injuries, it’s part of a trend dictated by a strategy.
Obviously, they can make any business decisions they want. I think it’s a shame that, once again, more of the profits were devoted to paying off the debt than maturing the club. But as Dodgy sang, “If it’s good enough for you, it’s good enough for me…”
Well Vibe, you just have to learn to adjust your expectations a little, and understand what we are dealing with here.
You have to think LONG-TERM.
If you are supporting Arsenal for the short-term fix of winning a trophy, you aren’t supporting the right team.
We think a bit differently, and our goals are more long-term.
We are balancing financial viability, making profits AND trying to win a trophy on occasion. All while playing a beautiful style of football.
I think I understand very well and have adjusted my expectations accordingly.
No one dominates third place in the Prem like Arsenal, consistently one of the eight best teams in Europe.
Trophies are for those clubs both lucky enough to been owned and managed by imprudent idiots, while rarely facing serious long-term injury on their squads, and almost always getting the benefit of bad officiating.
Arsenal is smarter, unluckier, and disliked by the powers-that-be. Try winning like that! It’s much harder for us.
I’m telling you…on-board!!
while some would view what you are saying as a bit cynical… there is some truth to what you said…
why not applaud and root for the club to make profit?
I doubt they’d do it, but I think the newspapers and websites should have a profit leaderboard.
It would be extremely interesting to see where teams fall.
So we know who bought their success and who earned it.
we were DOMINATED both legs, by a better team, a richer team, and
a more mature team.
no two ways about it…
we gave it a good run, and we showed some desire and effort, but
it simply was not going to happen… not WITH our better players
in there (and most started the 1st game)… and definitely not
with the line-up we had available.
Anything CAN happen in sports. Strange stuff occurs.
But seriously, no chance yesterday.
Why focus on what might have been.
5 games left in the league, we don’t have to worry about the CL
any more… more time for players to heal and rest… lets see
what happens in the last leg of the season.
When you are a possession team, like Arsenal are … and you
can’t get the ball away from your opponent… you can’t compete.
We RARELY have a plan B, and we definitely don’t have one where
we don’t have the ball much!
That’s what we are… accept it.
We have a limited budget, we don’t have the resources of the big teams,
and we make do, and do our best with what we have. (or what we choose to spend)
Arsenal aren’t going to lose money. We are going to make profits.
If we can WIN with that restriction, and lower the debt, bravo.
It appears we aren’t going to try and win by spending more than we make.
Long-term, its great.
If you want a trophy, well… we’ll either need to be lucky, or you
will be wanting as a supporter. Its just who we are as a football club.
OFF TOPIC:
ROONEY STARTS FOR MAN UNITED!
Wow.
Let’s face it, to compete with Barca Arsenal needed to be at full strength and they weren’t even close to that. If Diaby doesn’t screw up on that breakaway in the first half, it could have been 2-0 very easily. Alas, sometimes the breaks go your way and sometimes they don’t. In this game they didn’t. Even when the defense got to the ball sometimes they rolled right to Messi and the best player in the world doesn’t really neds fortuitous breaks to make things happy. All in all, I didn’t expect much from this game considering the lineup Arsenal were forced to put out, but even though they were outclassed they never quit which says alot about how different this team was from last year.
I didn’t see the first half, but clearly Messi made his mark. I did see the second half and while we didn’t look “great”, I don’t think we were totally dominated, certainly not to the extent we were in the first leg. I think an overlooked point in the game was NB52 hitting the post with ~10 minutes to go which would have made it 3-2. We may or may not have gone on to score another, probably unlikely…BUT it would have changed the complexion of the game setting up a grandstand finish. Perhaps we’d have had the belief that we could get 1 more, Perhaps Barca (and the fans) might have been thinking “here we go again…”. Sure they could have still gone on to get the fourth regardless. No way to know, but I was on a call with a client (watching on a stream at work, maybe not the best idea…) and shouted in the phone and jumped up and down when it happened! :)
6-3 on aggregate, well, in the grand scheme of things, is a fair reflection of Barca’s overall domminance of us over two legs. But it “could” have been closer had we continued to ride our luck…
Wasn’t Bendy flagged offside on that shot?