Selling Arsenal by the pound
So with the season well and firmly over, international friendlies out of the way it is likely to start heating up in the transfer window. There are now only 5 weeks or so until the teams report back to begin their training. With the tour of the Far East, Arsenal could be back earlier than most. However, for a few select players it is likely they will never see London Colney again.
There is a load of speculation that some of the senior players will not be back in a clear out of dead wood. Certainly many of the reserve team players are being cleared out. Now it remains to be seen which of the players in the first team will depart. The names being bandied about are well known to Gunners faithful – Denilson and Bendtner look about as abolute certain shoe ins for playing elsewhere as there has ever been. Other potential departures are Almunia, Rosicky, and Squillaci. Possibly others.
As we’ve looked at the three players I would hope to come in, let’s talk about the two definites that look to be gone.
Denilson
Has there been a player next to maybe Cygan that players want gone more? Denilson joined Arsenal in 2006 from Brazilian club Sao Paulo. He had just enjoyed a fruitful stint as Captain of the Brazil U17s. And from the start he showed a lot of promise with many thinking he could be another Cesc Fabregas type of find. But, the hype was better than the player with Denilson never living up to that early potential.
Defenders of his will talk about his playing out of position but many players on many teams do. But okay I’ll give you that. He does look like he doesn’t fit into the 4-3-3 and with the likes of Cesc, Nasri, Wilshere, Ramsey and Song before him in the pecking order it was up to him to make a statement he could play with this group. Unfortunately even that Brazillian ankle of his couldn’t save him. He’s just not been good enough for this team.
My primary problem with him is that he slows down our attack when the play comes through him. He doesn’t have the vision of many of our other midfielders and takes far too much time to try and develop the play. This results in any momentum slowing down, as well as allowing opposing players to close him leaving his only option as a multiple of back and sideways passes as opposed to the desired forward decicive passes of someone like Jack Wilshere.
Thank you. You can pick up your gold pen on the way out.
I took a good look at Denilson’s passing statistics on the Guardian and the stats don’t lie he does have a high rate of successful passes. However, upon further inspection you learn that this is probably deciving. First, most of his passes happen either in our half or the middle third of the pitch. Seldomly does he pass in the final third of the pitch. Additionally, if all your passes are back to the centre or full backs or across to a midfield partner I would suspect you would have a high rate of passes. It’s only when you become more definitive going forward that the likelihood of an errant pass happens.
To bolster my point on the slowing of Denilson’s impact on our attack, you only need look back as far back as his last match played which was the last West Brom match. He started the match but in all plays our development of attack was slow it lacked any certainty and was too deliberate allowing West Brom to effectively prepare for it. Only after Denilson was taken off at the half was their any change to our game play. Frankly, in almost every match I have watched with Denilson over the last three seasons that has been the mode for this team.
Denilson realizing his time is up at the club announced on the 21st that he planned to leave the club – much to many Gooners delight.
“I’m still young. If I don’t find another club in Europe, I will go back to Brazil and play there for six months,” he was quoted as saying by the Daily Mirror. “My idea is to accept any offer from Spain, Italy or Germany from a club that is playing in the Champions League. I dream of maintaining a place in the Brazil national team.
“I’ve spoken twice with Arsene Wenger and my decision is clear. I’m not happy at Arsenal and, after five years at the club, it’s best for me to go.
Nicklas Bendtner
Has there ever been a player who hyped himself up more than Nicklas Bendtner and then failed to live up even to his own hype? At least some of the biggest egos in the game could deliver. But for a while this summer it looked like Bendtner might actually be staying as Wenger admittedly said the Dane needed the playing time. However, earlier this week in an interview with sporten.dk – eNicky B had this to say:
I have decided 100% that I must leave Arsenal. I’ve considered this for a long time and was quite clear when I arrived at my decision.
It doesn’t feel particularly strange to not know what my future holds – I’m quite calm and confident that I’ll be fine at a new club.
I’m fully focused on Saturday’s game for now, because it is incredibly important, but after the international is over I may focus more directly on my future [but] I am sure I could easily go on holiday without having to panic about it.
I’m looking to relax, mentally, after a season that was not what I hoped for or expected.
You're the only one listening Nicky
Bendtner might actually deliver on his own potential if had the work rate to go along with it. But from all indiciations he does very little to enahnce the god-given talent he has. And it’s true the lad is talented. I don’t care if it was Leyton Orient but scoring a hat trick is not easy feat. However, experiences with Nicky like that are few and far between.
For a striker of his promise his first touch let’s him down more times than not, his shooting leaves something to be desired , he does not seem particulalry suited to a poachers role but with such poor shooting ability it would be his only saving grace. I’ve also been very vocal of his heading ability. For his size it is something Bendtner could use to his advantage but doesn’t Most of the headers he scores at least to me seem more a case of luck than skill. Looking conversely at Marouane Chamakh, when he heads the ball even when he doesn’t score, the shot is one target, forces the keeper to make a save and is almost always a canon shot of a header.
Additionally, Chamakh brings us something that Nicky B doesn’t do well, hold up the ball. With players like Van Persie, Fabregas and Walcott surrounding him, Bendtner could do well by getting the ball attacking the defenders and when there isn’t a play holding the ball up to bring his teammates in. But in most cases he tries to prove his own self-worth and take the ball into the box almost always losing the ball.
Again here is another player who has been done no favours by having Wenger playing him out of position still, if the 4-3-3 is the way to go for Arsenal and Robin Van Persie stays healthy there is very little Bendy can do but try and adapt or move on. It looks like he will move on.
The rest
As mentioned there are likely to be other departures. We still don’t know what is going on with Cesc Fabregas. Curiously, Barca a week after their Chamipon’s League win have not made an offer signalling either, that they will not make a bid or they are going to actually do this in a respectable manner and through the proper channels. However, Arsenal have already told Real Madrid and Inter that the starting price for Cesc is £50 million. With Barca only willing to pay £30 million it seems like Cesc will be here next season. In a snap poll on a barca site today, Cules were asked who did they want more Thiago Alcantara or Fabregas, – only 16% wanted Cesc. Last year might have been the chance to move. This year looks a little less likely.
Please? I promise I'll be better next season.
More curious is what is going on with Samir Nasri. Wenger admitted that there is a small difference between what Samir wants and what the club offered in terms of weekly wage. Nasri is looking for £110,000 a week (similar to Cesc) and the club offered £90,000. The differnce is about £2.5 million annually. Personally, I think Nasri is holding off on signing his contract pending the outcome of the Cesc ordeal. If Cesc were to go, Nasri could get the money he wants and move this natural position. If Cesc stays, well that will indeed create a curious situation.
The frenchman is a talent no doubt. But I am not sure he has wrranted being paid what Cesc makes after one good season. He has shown glimpses but it was only this season where he actually showed up on the big stage full time. And that is even misleading as for the last half of the season he was abnormally quiet. Had he not been I wonder if some of the results we encountered would’ve been different. And then noone would’ve been clamoring over an additional £20,000 a week.
Gael Clichy looks like he will be gone as LB is one of the desired targets for this summer. Clichy has some tremendous pace but overall his a defencive liability at the worst possible times. His crossing and play making ability is lacking and we would do much better in that position if Arsenal were to sign Leighton Baines. After watching Baines against Switzerland, there is a creativity that comes with that position on attack that Clichy lacks in my opinion.
While there are others, I wanted to talk briefly about Andrei Arshavin. At the end of the season it looked like Andrei would be gone. I frankly said it would be good for the team if he were. For most of this season and parts of last he just disappeared from the pitch. Sure, he could pop up and show us those glimpses of magic that make us wonder where the special guy is more – think Barca. But loking at some other matches and the FA Cup tie where he was practically booed off the pitch – he also frustrates. But in an interview this week, Andrei says Wenger has told him he will see him in July and even though there ws much speculation that Andrei would depart for Zenit, he stated he will come back. So it looks like Arshavin is on his way back to the club for another season. I hope for our sakes it is a mixture of the Arshavin from the Barca match and the one who was defencively amazing in the United match.
Anyway guys, sorry for the delay between posts but I’ve been trying to enjoy some of this off season and been actually working behind the scenes on some improvements. We’ll try and be a little more frequent with the stories.
Unitl then . . . Stay Goonerish!!!!
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Funny stuff there between the DAG and the Stag and lower down between Fred and CK….We definitely need the “panties in a bunch” emoticon…..(Or maybe it’s down there but just too small for me to see it…..)
Silly season is not for me, with the endless rumors (rumours?) while AW secretly negotiates with Ligue 2 & 3 managers or sends his scouts to the dirt pitches of Senegal and Cote d’voire….
Personally, I’m ramping up to deliver another essay with a working title of “Wenger Has Failed” or “The real price of Wenger’s Dream Failing to Come True” or something. It’ll be all about how failing to grasp the recent opportunities has killed the “collective belief” and now we’re just a team of mercenaries, bound to get weaker as our rivals steam ahead….or something…..And that alienating the (high priced) home support doesn’t help matters….
I’m also wanting to work in something about how football is a game of failure, trying to create chances in a methodical way while realizing that they don’t always often come off, and staying positive in light of that fact. It’s so easy for us who watch every Arsenal match to think that our players suck, esp. next to the highlight reels of others on Sky News or Fox Soccer Report or Youtube….In reality we need to to evaluate players AS IF they were our own…..And in many ways, for me, this comes down to running and ball skills.
Because of this I’m getting less concerned all the time about our some of our rivals. Liverpool, with the signing of Henderson for 20 million on top of Carroll for 35 million makes me think that Dalglish is spending too much time in the pubs. (And now they want our Calamity!?….) I realize that many here want us to build around English talent but I have to say I’ll take Jack and Theo ahead of those two any day of the week. Both of the’ Pool Englanders have some assets (Carroll’s is size, Henderson can strike a ball) but our boys will run circles around them. I feel very sorry for the Scouse if they think that Jordan H is gonna be the new Stevie G…..In fact, with the Henderson signing, I think Sunderland are doing very well for themselves and might be moving up, maybe using a fraction of the money to make the loan of Ahmed Elmohamady (a fine player, IMO) permanent. Of course they also made 24 mil selling Darren Bent to Aston Villa….
Anyhow, just some random, not-fully-formed thoughts on a Friday afternoon, while, like Fred, I try to stay positive….
@highburyterracesteve,
“while, like Fred, I try to stay positive….”
Heh heh.
@highburyterracesteve,
“I realize that many here want us to build around English talent but I have to say I’ll take Jack and Theo ahead of those two any day of the week. Both of the’ Pool Englanders have some assets (Carroll’s is size, Henderson can strike a ball) but our boys will run circles around them. I feel very sorry for the Scouse if they think that Jordan H is gonna be the new Stevie G…..”
Well, your dismissal of Henderson can be viewed in the same light as the dismissal of Carrol by quite a few in January.
Our boys will not run squat around them. Dalglish knows what he is doing? He has leagues, CL and even an EPL with Blackburn. Unlike Wenger he is not trying to play in a fantasy world.
Gerrard himself said Henderson would be the new him. That might still be proven delusional BUT that is their business. We have completely lost the right to judge other peoples buys after the last 6 years and after bidding 16 M for a 19 year old.
PS: Theo especially is a disaster. He is far more likely to run past the ball than to run rings around anybody.
@highburyterracesteve, Not sure how you can criticize Liverpool for their moves in any sense. What they WERE doing, was NOT working. They brought in King Kenny, and his view is to go BRITISH CORE… as I noted previously, makes a LOT of sense to me. They also got Suarez, so, its not only British talent. United are doing it as well… and can’t really say SHIT about their success, can we?
Sadly, the rumors of the last few days are of Wenger… being Wenger… (like Manny being Manny, both mad men who’ll end it disaster!)… looking at a bunch of 17, 18 and 19 year olds…
NOT INTERESTED.
I DON’T CARE ABOUT 2016… unless its without WENGER here.
We’ve got multiple players trying to get away from the club… a number that need to be sent away…
Cesc, Nasri, Clichy… Denilson, Bendtner… Eboue, Squillaci, Almunia, Rosicky… at least 9 there that either want to go, should go, or have asked to go.
We’ll be going to Asia… soon enough… does anyone think it MIGHT be a good idea to actually MAKE A FECKING MOVE with some of the above players… and BRING IN PLAYERS BEFORE THE TRAINING STARTS?
I don’t get what we are waiting for.
I know its not a video game, it takes time… but I would think we would want to DO BUSINESS QUICKLY… since so much needs to be done.
Hopefully, the rumors tomorrow will be more exciting!
Tevez for Cesc?
;)
@highburyterracesteve, Not sure how you can criticize Liverpool for their moves in any sense. What they WERE doing, was NOT working. They brought in King Kenny, and his view is to go BRITISH CORE… as I noted previously, makes a LOT of sense to me. They also got Suarez, so, its not only British talent. United are doing it as well… and can’t really say SHIT about their success, can we?
Sadly, the rumors of the last few days are of Wenger… being Wenger… (like Manny being Manny, both mad men who’ll end it disaster!)… looking at a bunch of 17, 18 and 19 year olds…
NOT INTERESTED.
I DON’T CARE ABOUT 2016… unless its without WENGER here.
We’ve got multiple players trying to get away from the club… a number that need to be sent away…
Cesc, Nasri, Clichy… Denilson, Bendtner… Eboue, Squillaci, Almunia, Rosicky… at least 9 there that either want to go, should go, or have asked to go.
We’ll be going to Asia… soon enough… does anyone think it MIGHT be a good idea to actually MAKE A FECKING MOVE with some of the above players… and BRING IN PLAYERS BEFORE THE TRAINING STARTS?
I don’t get what we are waiting for.
I know its not a video game, it takes time… but I would think we would want to DO BUSINESS QUICKLY… since so much needs to be done.
Hopefully, the rumors tomorrow will be more exciting!
Tevez for Cesc?
;)
Johann Djorou:
” We probably need defenders. We are a big club and we need them. I am not worried. I am ready to fight for my place and to be a better player.
To be the best, you need competition in every position. It’s good Arsenal are looking to spend money.”
WOOOW, the “kid players” FINALLY get it! Competition is NEVER bad for young players.
Funny how the “kids” Wenger was trying to protect from getting “killed” are now calling for competition.
and the drama… BEGINS!
Barca have launched their 30 Million GBP bid, plus 2 players in exchange for Cesc.
Liverpool offer 5 Million GBP for Clichy?!
ManU want Nasri for 10 Million GBP…
Wow. It should be an interesting Summer… we’ll see if Arsene and Arsenal want to keep its best players, or what the plan is… (other than making a profit in the Summer) :skeleton:
@stag133,
Barca have done nothing of the sort.
Liverpool have not offered anything for CLichy
And ManU have not oppened up conversations for Nasri even with his reps.
But look on the bright side – we won the race for Oxlade-Chamberlain.
And the new kid defender wants to be like Tony Adams.
@DaAdminGooner, don’t be upset DAG… its OK.
You should be flattered that other teams want our players.
Deny all you want, but you can’t stop the gossip! You can NOT stop silly season baby!
100 TIMES more exciting than any Arsenal match in recent memory.
AND.
Tony Adams says George Graham was a better manager than Wenger!
HAAAAAAAAAAA!
I love it.
Haven’t had this much enjoyment from football since Arsenal stopped trying to win trophies!
Do you think we should take the 5 Mill for Clichy?
How about 10 Mill for Nasri to United?
Cesc for 30 and 2 players?
What do ya think?
I’d sell Cesc for 35 Mill, so 30 and 2 players, I’d go for it.
I wouldn’t sell Clichy unless we bring in a PROVEN replacement berore it happens.
And Nasri can go as well… just not to an EPL team.
ENJOY!
@stag133,
Since you like rumours you will love this then –
In the Express – Arsenal Chiefes Convinced Wenger to spend around £60 million –
ARSENE WENGER wants to make a dramatic move to strike straight back at Manchester United and Liverpool after lodging his interest in more than £60million-worth of talent.
Having been beaten to the £16million signing of Blackburn’s Phil Jones by United and seen Jordan Henderson make a big-money move to Liverpool, Wenger is determined to make his mark in the transfer market.
The Daily Express understands enquiries have been made for Bolton and Blackburn defenders Gary Cahill and Chris Samba, and Lille duo Gervinho and Eden Hazard. Wenger is also bidding to beat United to Southampton kids Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Luke Shaw.
It is not thought Wenger expects to sign all of his targets, but the Arsenal boss is anxious not to get left behind by his rivals. England defender Cahill has a £17m release clause in his Bolton contract and the fee has not put Arsenal off his trail, but they know they could face competition for him from Manchester City.
Similarly, City are also thought to be looking at Gervinho, while a host of Europe’s biggest clubs have been alerted to the talents of Hazard.
Arsenal would have a relatively free run at Samba, but it remains to be seen whether, having already lost Jones, Blackburn will be prepared to sell their best remaining player.
“Arsene currently has his fingers in an awful lot of pies and it is now just a case of waiting to see what will come off,” said a Gunners source. “It is not money or transfer fees that are going to stop anything, it depends on the players and what other choices they might have.”
Although the potential signing of a new defender could put pressure on his own position, Johan Djourou would welcome a spending spree and also believes forward Gervinho would prove a big hit.
“I guess Arsenal will be busy this summer,” said Djourou, who has visited his Kemi Malaika foundation in Senegal, where he has funded the building of a school.
“It’s nice to hear the club want to spend money and that can only be a good thing because, to be a strong club, you need competition.
“Everybody says we need defenders and we probably do. But that does not worry me, I will just fight for my place and fight to be a better player.”
On Gervinho, Djourou added: “I’ve known about him for a while and have watched him play in the French League. He is a great player who has impressed me. He has got lots of talent and is quick.
“He can play as a striker or on the wing and he certainly has all the ingredients to play for Arsenal.”
Like United and Liverpool, Wenger is keen to do some major business early in the transfer window – especially as doubts over the futures of Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri could rumble through the summer.
The Daily Express yesterday revealed that Fabregas fears Arsenal’s £50m valuation of him could prove too costly for Barcelona and the Spanish club have now confirmed their summer transfer budget falls under that figure.
Barca’s vice-president for economic affairs, Javier Faus, revealed the European champions have set aside £40m for new signings and will reinvest any money made on player sales.
He said: “Barcelona have £40m for transfers, plus the money that can be obtained from sales of players. When we speak about sales, we will only consider those that are beneficial to the club.”
@DaAdminGooner, I like it. Now we just have to actually DO IT.
You know SPEND MONEY. Now would be good!
It’s sad, but the silly season is better than the last half of the real season.
The wonderful news is that the 125 Anniversary Arsenal Kit is out and FOR $ALE.
Make sure you get out there and get it… online… at a store… or right from the club’s website, preferably, so they get ALL the money for the board and the profit…
Go Ar$enal!
;) :skeleton:
@stag133, Apparently Diaby will not be buying the new anniversery jersey:
Diaby Admits to Wearing Spurs Shirt (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/927155/abou-diaby-admits-to-wearing-spurs-shirt-at-home?cc=5901)
It’s not a terrible crime in the grand scheme of things, but it is representative of the fact that the situation at the Club is getting a little ridiculous.
@stag133, Apparently Diaby will not be buying the new anniversery jersey:
Diaby Admits to Wearing Spurs Shirt (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/927155/abou-diaby-admits-to-wearing-spurs-shirt-at-home?cc=5901)
It’s not a terrible crime in the grand scheme of things, but it is representative of the fact that the situation at the Club is getting a little ridiculous.
If Wenger buys Gervinho, Kroenke better hop on the plane and fire his ass immediately. Having 2/3 of your strike force going to the ANC which will be held in consecutive years is also plain stupid.
@CaribKid,
Not only would he and Chamakh both bugger off in January 2012 and January 2013 … he is also a very mediocre player.
Given Nero Wenger’s modus operandi, we would probably pay 40 million for him!
@CaribKid,
I understand the ANC wants to switch from even to odd years, but I really wish they would just go from 2012 straight to 2015 without having 2013 in there. Do they really need to hold the tournament 3 times in 4 years?
@ChicagoGooner,
They don’t, but have you ever heard of an FA turning down a chance to fill their coffers with gold? I haven’t.
:laugh:
Wenger’s attempt to buy Phil Jones for 16M has confirmed my worst suspicions and leaves me with little hope for Arsenal success in the upcoming season.
How does a 19 year old, 5′ 11″, CB with 1 year EPL experience qualify as being an instant defensive upgrade and adding height to the squad? 16M? Frugal?
Will this be Wenger’s reprisal of ground hog day when he totally lost his team at Monaco and ended up 9th in Lique 1 with a pink slip for his efforts and extra cash to board the plane for his long flight to Grampus.
Does no one on the staff have the balls to tell Arsene he is demented or being French, has he called upon the darker side of Vodoo to mesmerize those who labor under him.
@CaribKid,
Yup, he has descended into complete erratic behavior. Personally, I think he is going mad!
For 16 million you can get a top class CB!
His trying to buy a completely inexperienced and short kid is just incredibly baffling. IF we wanted to go with a kid, we already have Bartley who is taller! How on earth does our paying 16 M for someone even younger and shorter than Bartley make any sense?
It shows he really, really does not get it.
It is the same way we went and blasted 10 M on a mediocre Koz last season when that amount could have gotten a solid CB. But at least Koz was in his 20s. This Jones one makes absolutely no sense.
—————————————————-
I am quite happy this has come out.
It completely destroys any argument AKBs could have about “Man City/Chelsea spending” or how we are too broke or how some players are “not good enough to play for Arsenal”.
@CaribKid,
Also why is it that EVERY CB we buy these days is EXACTLY 5ft 11in???
Vermaelen, Koz and Shittachi were ALL 5’11” before they joined Arsenal …. then magically their wikipedia got “updated” and they are now ALL 6’1″ …. LOOOOL !!!!
Here’s some news on Gervinho from Matt Law at the Express:
And in another potential breakthrough signing, Arsenal target Gervinho has confirmed he is quitting Lille and wants to move to England.
“My mind is made up, I am leaving,” said Ivory Coast forward Gervinho.
“I will soon meet the club and let them know, but they understand my feelings that I want to prove myself in a top league in Europe.
“My agents are moving things as I want, people know where my future lies. It is in England.”
@DaAdminGooner,
I hope the guy is headed for Blackburn or some other random club.
The days of buying mediocre Francophone folks should be OVER!
So I have been able to get some more details on the the whole Jones saga. And NO this is not coming from the club or anyone associated with it – it has been verified by Jones himself
Blackburn had AGREED to a £16 million deal with Arsenal for the 19 year old defender. Wenger spent the night negotiating a deal – what it seems it came down to is that the lad wanted to stay in the North.
This is confirmed.
@DaAdminGooner,
Extremely strange really.
So he DOES have 16 million!!!!! So why not go for Cahill then, whose balls have actually descended AND is very experienced in the EPL!
I still cant wrap my head around 16 M for Jones when we already have Kyle Bartley who had an excellent season last year!
How exactly would Jones bring experience and leadership and ability to WIN right now (not in the future) ??
Ofcourse, we all know the answer. Wenger does not want any ready made players …. because he does not get all the glory of having “made” a youngster.
I am just happy this has come out because it puts paid to two points. The idea that we have no money and two, the idea that some players are not good enough for Arsenal. If Phil Jones is good enough for Arsenal then surely, Samba, Cahill and Parker ARE.
@Fred,
Fred on the two points you mention above, this clearly shows we have the money. So let’s spend it.
And a young CB means it is likely that someone is leaving our back 4.
Now here is the interesting thing (keep in mind I think this is just a rumour) right after this information came out – word was spreading that Arsenal were going for a double killing of Samba and Cahill (I don’t believe it). While I think the rumour highly suspect, I am beginning to believe that either Cahill or Samba will be an Arsenal player by the end of the summer.
Thinking about it …. the club really has NO choice but the give Nasri exactly what he is asking for.
The 20k per week extra he is asking is still much, much cheaper than actually going out to buy someone new!
The club should swallow their pride. When you cant give a competitive squad you have to pay your few star players compensation for wasting their time.
While the club is at it, it should also unilaterally increase Fabregas’ wages to 180 k per week, as a thank you for keeping us in Top 4 good will gesture. He might really want to go to Barca, but no way Barca are gonna give him 180kpw.
How would the club pay for those two increases totallying 90 k per week? Well Denilson and Diaby combined earn 120 k per week. Getting rid of those two planks alone covers the wage increases. And pacifies two of our Big Three.
If we keep our Big Three: Fab, RvP, Nasri. Sort out our CB, DM positions. Get rid of the useless 10 players. At least we can move up to third place for next season. And maybe go for the CC again.
Just trying to keep positive.
This extra long comment left on AT is a masterpiece and encapsulates my feelings precisely …
———————————————————————————–
It really is a simple thing: Wenger is no longer the man to lead Arsenal. The players don’t respect him, every interview he says is a re-hash repeat. Does anyone honestly think the players take him seriously when he says ‘mental strength’ for the thousandth time after they’ve just dropped 2 points at West Brom?
The Nasri situation is just a product of Wenger’s pathetic policies. He has created an environment where there is no such thing as individual and collective responsibility. It is always the ref’s fault, Dalglish, the opposition defending competently, the physical fatigue, the international break etc etc. The man is a joke and an excuse-maker.
It is a result of Wenger continually telling a bunch of nobody players WHO HAVE NOT WON A SINGLE TROPHY BETWEEN THEM, that they are top class that they end up so arrogant. Look at Denilson and Bendtner ‘threatening’ to leave the club? These two tossers should consider themselves lucky to play for Huddersfield let alone Arsenal. Yet, AW has made these players so complacent and so arrogant.
They fail year after year, and year after year Wenger gives them fat new contracts and tells them they are the best in the world. He then isolates the few class players we have by surrounding them with shit.
NASRI MUST STAY. I laugh at all the clowns who say ‘sell him’. Yes he was average for six months but fact remains, he was voted second in PFA Player of the Year. He is one of only three quality players this deeply mediocre squad has. Speak to Barca/Bayern/Milan players and when they mention quality players at Arsenal, the names that crop up are always ‘Cesc, RVP and Nasri’.
Seriously what is wrong with this joke club under Wenger? The same mugs now saying Nasri should leave are doubtless the same ones saying we’d be better off without Adebayor and Henry. Oh what are Chamakh and Bendtner not up to it for you? The same mugs saying ‘get rid of Gallas’, how are you enjoying Shitachi then? Hmmm?
Wenger is 100% the architect of all this. If his dressing room no longer respect him, and no longer believe that he is the man to win trophies then his position is UNTENABLE. This c**t Wenger is clinging to power like an African dictator, on his nice £6 mil a year. No wonder he couldn’t sign that new contract extension soon enough!
If Arsenal lose Nasri who the hell of equal/better quality do you expect to join this club that wins nothing? Already I am reading about useless pieces of shit like Gervinho coming in. Who is this c**t? No CL experience, no big-game experience, never performed in a big league, never proven a thing. Newcastle also want him. It was like when we signed that prick Chamakh. I asked back then: WHICH other big clubs are in for him? Answer was: none.
And now you all see how garbage he is.
Who of equal quality will replace Nasri? Why do I keep hearing muppets say ‘sell Nasri’ when c***s like Diaby, Eboue, Song, Fabianski, Almunia and Shitachi clearly are the biggest problem at this club and need to be moved on? How will Arsenal ever have any kind of stability as a club when every summer the best players want out?
What is this MYTH about Wenger’s stability of the club? There is no stability! Every single season, Arsenal are having to ‘rebuild’ because a top player leaves. So Bayor and Toure leave, then Arsenal have to start again. Or Henry. Or Vieira. Or Pires. Or Gilberto. etc etc. Every year where Arsenal need to keep ALL their best players and ADD a few top class ones, Arsenal start by losing a class player and there end up with a deficit. We never add, we hardly fucking replace. We are weaker and weaker with each passing year – or are some of you too stupid to see that six years without a trophy and an inability to beat Birmingham in a cup final is no coincidence?
Which muppets out there think Ramsey can replace Cesc? In fact….where are all the idiots who claimed ‘Nasri will easily replace Cesc’!!!
How hard is it to see what a hash of this club Wenger has made? I keep hearing ‘replace this, replace that player’ etc etc. It is much harder to replace Cesc, Nasri, clear out the overpaid wasters etc.
THE EASIEST THING TO DO IS TO PAY WENGER OFF AND SACK HIM.
Arsenal don’t just need new players, it’s way beyond that. A Massive change of mentality is needed. We need to return this club to an ethos where second place is first loser. Where winning is everything, and where you don’t walk into the first team by virtue of being some little French shit-head.
There are too many clowns wearing the shirt who are mercenaries. Most of them probably cannot believe they are playing for a club Arsenal’s size and being paid a criminal fortune for doing so. Look at Diaby, Song, Denilson, Bendtner, Shitachi, Eboue, Fabianski, Almunia. NONE of these players are good enough to play for a top ten PL side. Yet they are CL regulars on big money, it really is a farce.
Enough is enough.
Wenger CANNOT change the dressing room, because he has had six years and it gets worse. Does that not tell you anything? He is beyond changing. We need top class players, proven winners like Germans e.g. Schweinsteigers, Mertesacker, or top players playing in proper leagues like Eto’o, Nilmar etc…but instead does this gimp show any sign of changing?
Nope. Hs scouts were at the France-Ukraine game last night sc outing Kevin Gameiro! What the bloody hell is some clown who’s no better than Chamakh gonna do to change Arsenal? We are an ENGLISH club, not some care home for mediocre French and French-speaking Africans. I’m sick fo seeig shit French players at this club.
I didn’t mind when these French players were Henry, Pires, Vieira but when we are now talking about Koscielny, Shitachi, Chamakh and Gameiro/Gervinho then you can piss right off.
Wenger CANNOT change the dressing room around. Too late for that. He has instilled a losing ethos, a loser’s mentality where 4th is achievement. If the fans feel angry and fed up then imagine how a quality player feels having to play alongside that shite?
And why SHOULDN’T Nasri ask for more money? If it’s ok for the club to keep paying a Loser like Wenger £6 million a year for nothing, why shouldn’t Nasri, who is very decent, get parity? What has Wenger done in six years to justify that salary? Why are people getting angry at Nasri when Wenger is happy to pick up more than any of the players for winning and delivering, sod all? If Nasri went to Real or City tomorrow, he would easily get £110k a week. So he is right to ask for this.
I don’t hear any of the same muppets moaning about how disgusting it is when the club charge City £40 mil for Ade and Kolo? And rip off the fans? Oh but Nasri is the villain? Even though this is ALL a result of AW’s failed policies?
PLEASE.
The solution is simple: this club will go nowhere until Wenger is done away with.
And I won’t watch a single game until he is jettisoned. No interest until Wenger’s history.
@Fred, you’re right man, just plain right.
ABW is not a full solution but would be a major step forward.
Carib, based on what you said, I’d say he is more Brit than Finn! Thanks for the info.
However, the fact that he hasn’t played at all in the EPL, and Charlton is in Div.1, not even the Championship… means he is FAR FAR into the future hopes…
He is NOT a signing that helps Arsenal in this upcoming season in any way, shape or form.
He is NOT someone like Cesc or Nasri can point to and say, OK things MIGHT be changing, we are trying to get this act together.
So, basically, a move that is irrelevant. :skeleton:
@stag133,
You are welcome Stagg, and agreed, he should have little or no impact on next season.
@stag133,
Correction Stagg. Although Jenkinson plays for Finland he is born and bred English and was in the Charlton youth set since he was 8. Finland is his mother’s country of origin and hence his eligibility to play for them.
@Fred,
Jenkinson is 6′ 1″, not 5′ 11″. Has decent ground skills and pace.
He is as much a catch as Smalling or Jones at this time based on potential. Only time will tell if all or any of those 3 will fulfill their potential.
You should also notice his signing was announced by Gazidis along with the other Reserve announcements. Probably a good indication he will not feature much in the first team this season unless we have serious injuries at RB. For all the Eboue haters, this also probably means that you will have to endure your favorite African gazelle for at least one more year. :laugh: :laugh:
@CaribKid,
I never said Jenkinson was 5ft 11in. I was talking about Phil Jones – who went to Man U.
I dont think you can compare him to Smalling or Jones. The latter duo had both played in the EPL – with Jones having played two seasons in the EPL.
Jenkinson on the other hand has played only in League One and just 8 games (3 starts) at that.
It is a big, big shame if Eboue that absolute buffoon who should have been shipped off in 2006 continues to soil the Arsenal jersey next season.
But then again, I fully expect Almunia and even Denilson to still be here come September …..
@Fred,
My apologies. Sounded like you were speaking about our guy.
Liam Brady on this mornings talkSport:
“There will be a lot of business done this year and I think we will be spending a bit more money than we have done in past seasons. I think Arsenal will spend this year,” Brady, who is head of youth development at Arsenal, told talkSPORT.
Brady is also confident that Samir Nasri will stay at the Emirates Stadium despite recent contract talks breaking down.
“We all rate Nasri,” said Brady.
“I believe they had extensive contractual talks but not reached a conclusion, but sometimes it takes time.
“I am optimistic he will be playing with Arsenal next yea
If we bought someone like Cahill, sold off Squillaci, promoted Bartley and moved Djorou into DM ……. that might be a cost effective way of hitting two birds with one stone …
CB: Vermaelen, Cahill, Bartley, Koscielny
DM: Song, Djorou, Frimpong.
This (or a variation) is a much better setup than what we had this last season and is not affected in anyway by the “millions Man City and Chelsea” are spending.
PS: I do not expect us to buy any CB or DMs or to make any sort of changes in that area. Just trying to stay positive here.
@Fred,
Like that concept except I would have Koz deputize at DM rather than JD. Better ground game, more pace and reads the game better.
@CaribKid,
I do not think Koz reads the game better. Good game readers do not commit to so many last ditch sliding tackles.
That said, he could also be an improvement not just on the Diaby/Denilshit disaster duo, he could also be an upgrade on the immobile, heavy and slow Song.
That said, I would still prefer for DJ to make the move to DM.
@Fred,
My reason for saying that he’s a good reader of the game is based on his consistency in intercepting the ball before it gets to an opposing player and his ability to choose the right pass coming out of defense.
Also, in his defense, JD makes just as many ill advised tackles.
@CaribKid,
I still think it is a big flaw about Koz. But I agree JD isnt much better.
I just figure JD a bit “stronger”.
Either way, this kind of thinking could help save money, since the club can then just concentrate on buying a solid, “ready for EPL battle from day one” type of player to pair with Vermaelen.
If Clichy leaves and we can get 10 M for him, and we can get 5 M for Eboue … that is enough to get Baines. Defense complete (bar the training).
But the problem ofcourse is that the club will do absolutely NOTHING. Just sit pat and tell us the players will get better because they are a year older. And their supporters would tell us there is nothing they could have done anyway, because Man City and Chelsea are buying Messi and Ronaldo and Kaka. Therefore Arsenal is completely helpless and can not solve its own basic problems. ;-)
@Fred, IMO Djourou is another never arriving prodigy. Yes he had horrible injuries, is the hardest working in training, BUT he is not consistent enough for a title winning CB, and he is slow in taking the right decision.
On Saturday he was just awful, this after some bad games at the end of the season. He was so bad that Senderos looked pretty good.
He doesn’t have the technique, or vision to be an Arsenal midfielder, but could be used as a shield in front of the CBs in matches against Stoke, Bolton, Fulham, etc.
Knowing Arsene he will never counter the opponents’ strentghs……………so case closed.
Koscielny, well not much of a modern DM there either.
Now, Vermaelen would be just right as a DM. He’s got the heart, the technique, the strength, the shot.
Would AW buy 2-3 international class CBs to strengthen the team by rebuilding the defense and midfield?
Nope.
The article on Young Guns reports that the Carl Jenkinson deal is a one (?) year contract.
So are we paying 1 mill for a 19 year old who has played only 8 professional games at the League One level … and to cap it all we give him just a 1 year contract or am I missing something? Why not at least give him a much longer contract so as to recoup the money if he fails?
@Fred,
This is exactly how RUMORS get started Fred. Young Guns never said he was on a 1 year deal. The writer for Charlton who was being interviewed said
“I can’t blame him from moving on. We (MEANING CHARLTON) only gave him a 1 year deal, he and his family support Arsenal, and the opportunity to train with Premier League players, coaches and have Wenger as manager is too good to turn down.”
Fred, have you now aligned your stars with the “irrelevant media”?
@CaribKid,
Yes. :-D
@Fred,
:-)) :-D :laugh:
United are set to beat Arsenal and Liverpool out for Blackburn defender Phil Jones.
Arsenal made a repeated attempt last night to make their case but he has reportedly selected United. The fee £16 million
@DaAdminGooner, So, what we are seeing is… Liverpool, and now United… bringing in YOUNG ENGLISH TALENT.
United sign Phil Jones, and also going to get Ashley Young.
Liverpool sign Henderson, and looking at Downing and Adam.
Arsenal.
19 year old Finnish player, who is not going to be playing in the near future (if ever) for the big club.
This is what we had to get done? any other pressing needs Arsene? maybe a 18 or 17 year old from Chile? :skeleton:
@stag133,
First by all accounts Jenkinson is a catch. We nipped out both United and Chelsea for him.
Second while I think we all will be happier when/if first team signings are announced – I find nothing wrong with replenishing the reserves too. We got rid of players there and needed to re stock it.
@DaAdminGooner,
More of the close but no cigar kinda thing. All the more to use to pacify the fans at the end of the summer when nothing comes to fruition.
They can then say, “hey, we tried to get ’em but they did not want to come”.
—————————————————–
Why are we going for a 19 year old 5 ft 11 in player anyway. I fully understand why that works for Man U but that does not work for Arsenal height or experience wise.
Besides, if we wanted to go with a kid CB then why not just promote Kyle Bartley who did very well last season and is much taller??
If this is really true, our transfer policy is complete utter chaos.
The weirdness from the club continues.
@Fred,
I just report the rumour. Should’ve put it in the rumour area but I figured someone would bring it in here.
I don’t think we were ever in for Jones. For just the reason you mention Fred. It doesn’t make sense.
We’ve got a signing (!)….Carl Jenkinson, an 18 yr old Finnish left back from Charlton…..
Does this mean the last of the “invincibles” (Clichy) is off? Meanwhile Gibbs withdraws from the U-21s with an ankle injury. Hmmm……
My real question this morning is more existential: With all the complaining about the manager and the club I wonder what it might take for people here to stop supporting Arsenal…..
I ask because I’ve been watching the NBA Finals and remembering back to when I stopped supporting my local team, the Golden State Warriors.
It was a very, very long time ago (early-mid 90s) and a variety of factors contributed. In the late 80s the Warriors were terrible but they did better with a “small” team led by coach Don Nelson. This was the “Run TMC” period (after rappers Run DMC….) with the three key players being Tim Hardaway, Mitch Ritchmond and Chris Mullin. During this period I started playing a lot of ball myself and getting some very cheap tickets from friends who had season tickets but couldn’t make it to every game. It was great as I got the lesser games with empty seats down low that I could poach. Watching the pros up close was inspirational for my own game…..
The team improved for a while and played an exciting brand of high scoring ball. (They had a promo for awhile that if the team won AND scored more than 120 pts, ticket stubs got you a free pizza somewhere…..) At some point, however, it seemed like the Warriors needed to change things up in order to compete with the more balanced teams. Mitch Ritchmond got traded to Sacramento for Billy Owens and we drafted quality players including Latrell Sprewell and Chris Webber. The future was bright…..
Except suddenly it wasn’t….Coach Nelson had some sort of fallout with Webber and suddenly he was gone, traded for a rookie named Tom Gugliotta….. About this same time the team did a season in San Jose while the aging Oakland Coliseum Arena was refurbished to add more and better (i.e., higher priced) seats. The team spiraled downwards. My friends (and I), faced with higher prices for season tickets, did not renew. These days I couldn’t care less who wins the NBA, though I tend to find myself rooting against the rapists (Kobe Bryant). I also did not get on any Warriors bandwagon a few years back when they beat (#1 seed) Dallas in the first round of the playoffs. Since moving to the mountains I have (unfortunately) stopped playing ball….Up here it’s all fat, white people sucking air and trying to draw fouls; the better athletes are all out on the snow…..
So, a long (pointless?) story…..Thanks (as always) for indulging it…..
My question, esp. for those that despise Wenger and miss Highbury: Why are you still here? Is there a connection to Islington that lingers and will always make Arsenal your club? Or is there something that makes you think it will actually turn around and that things will get better and that we’ll be good enough to achieve some measure of satisfaction that will make all this frustration worthwhile?
I DO have a personal connection to Highbury/Islington and I feel like I’ll support the Arsenal through thick and thin. Perhaps because of this I try to generate reasons to be hopeful while staying rational and keeping my expectations realistic. Personally, at this moment, I see little reason to believe that our “Desert Years” are over, but with football as (financially) wide open as it is, I think (as I have written many times over….) that there might come a day (in the not too distant future, hopefully in my lifetime…..) when all of Arsenal’s penny-pinching actually pays off.
But lately I’ve been told that money HAS NOTHING to do with anything. If that’s true I wonder how people take it? Why do they pay the high ticket prices or otherwise torture themselves? Why not find another team to believe in? I know that love and hate are closely related so maybe HATING Arsenal is satisfaction in and of itself…..
My hunch is that under all the vitriol and frustration there’s some (deep seated, buried in denial?) measure of belief that we’re on the right track in the (very?) long term. Otherwise I can’t see why people come on here EVERY SINGLE DAY and go on and on telling people just how bad it is, how we must change things (that aren’t changing), and how stupid and fucked up everything is. Like my experience with the Warriors, why don’t people just GIVE UP, support at team that better fits your values/beliefs, or watch the game as a neutral until a new favorite comes along?
Thanks for reading….. (I’m actually looking for serious responses, but I will alert my rear end about the ripping that surely awaits……)
@highburyterracesteve,
Jenkinson is nothing more then a replenishment of the reserves that have been sent out. If he gets first team time it will likely be as a sub to Sagna.
He can play across the entire back 4 but he is mostly used as a RB.
@DaAdminGooner, Thanks DAG…..I read a little deeper and it says he also plays a little CB…..Please don’t tell me that this spells the end for Aaahhhh–Booooooo-Eeeeee…..
@highburyterracesteve, HTS.
I support the CLUB, not Arsene Wenger. He won’t be here forever, though I thought the same thing about Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe!
I love soccer… and will watch and hope for the best regardless. It LESSENS my interest in the team, watching the same problems every season, and a manager and board who fail to address them, but I can wait it out…. “change gonna come”… one way or another.
@stag133,
Not for nothing, Steve, but it’s not nearly Golden State Warriors bad, yet. I mean, at least we can still remember why we once enjoyed supporting this club.
:-)
@vibe4arsenal, No doubt….
My point is, could it be that it is not so bad because we haven’t mortgaged the future, even if our frugality has sometimes gone overboard, perhaps to an extreme that seems (very) disrespectful of the fans….
This is my take on things….That the management (owner and their COO) have been too extreme and failed to grab some serious low hanging fruit (domestic trophies) with some financial gambling. Unfortunately with things failing to bounce our way we LOSE money (10 million pounds for 4th instead of 3rd, going out early in the CL, etc.) while undermining our home support which costs us points (I believe) when you have a squad that “hasn’t been there”….
Long term, discipline tends to pay off, but with other squads pushing the envelope (Liverpool, with savvy owners now, worry me for our CL spot., on top of the other three….) I wonder if it’s ALWAYS the best policy…..
@HighburyterraceSteve,
So I *did* need a smiley face after that. I’ll get on that.
@vibe4arsenal,
In any case, the more serious answer.
Your question was about at what point we’d get fed up and walk away. If I was a Warriors fan…long past the hope of the team being competitive, much less winning anything, I would have lost interest way back. Especially since the NBA product is only interesting if your team is any good (barely, at that).
With Arsenal, I’ve recently found myself increasingly less interested because each succeeding season has been like a movie I don’t really care for and yet I’ve seen too many times. It feels less crucial to watch every game, or every minute of the matches I do watch. I used to hang on every moment.
Like stagg, I believe this will change once Wenger is gone. In the meantime, Arsenal will always be my club, but my near term interest level will need to be *earned*, rather than the given it has been in the past.
The oft-discussed issue of how the club got to where it is…that you came back to above….seperate conversation that I think we’ve all come to conclusions about.
@highburyterracesteve, being a football fan is different in the Old World, or South America. There is a lot of connection to the local club, which might have been there for 100+ years. The club has been followed by generations, at least 6-7, since the time of amateur or semi professional football.
People grow up following the same team as their grand, grand parents. Teams DO NOT MOVE, they get relegated or promoted, so there is a chance of wining/losing always and that sifts the reals fans from the occasional ones. Although, these days, most teams are made of professionals there is a lot of nostalgia for the “good old times” when 20 pounds was the maximum weekly salary.
We do not have this in the US, our sport teams are exclusively businesses, and they are regarded as such by the public. Our teams can always “take up shop” and move where there is more profit to be made. Our major sport clubs are part of syndicates which establish their own rules, and governance structure, and interfere with the local and national politics.
Many big clubs in Europe would prefer the “American way”, but they have to comply with the local customs and realities.
I grew up there, and live now here in the Golden State.
I chose to follow Arsenal because they were on US TV AND it was the era of Henry and Bergkamp, but MY team, in the hearts of hearts, will always be the team my father took me to watch, every two weeks, in a little border town, way deep in the last century. The same team for which he had the chance to play, the same team his brother and father followed till death.
And that’s why I can understand the Arsenal born fans never giving up up on their team, although AFC is trying really really hard to ease them into doing it.
AFC is Americanizing, surely Kronke and Gazidis know “better”. Will they break the harts of the aficionados?
I surely hope not
Liverpool keep strengthening their squad. Obviously Dags knows what he wants… young BRITISH core of players to build around.
They pick up Henderson from Sunderland, and their other 2 targets are Charlie Adam and Stu Downing.
Hey, makes sense to me…. they were defnitely better after selling off Torres and bringing in Carroll and Suarez…
They’ve already got some experienced players in the squad, so now they are creating a good mix…
They should be an interesting team next season.
Selling Arsene by the pound?
“Oh hi there Clarice…………………”
If Liverpool are close to signing Doni from Roma…
then they must be about to sell Pepe Reina?!
I hear we apparently tried to get him last season.
I also know United are looking to get a new keeper with VanDerSar retiring… they were close on De Gea, but didn’t see that finalized.
Are we in the market for a keeper now? or are we going with amazing group of keepers we already have? :skeleton:
We are are talking, writing, hoping, dreaming about changes in player personnel which will turn Arsenal into a winning club.
Let’s say that AW has changed his fixations, and is ready to buy world class players. Let’s also say that he will give the defense enough attention, so the rebuilding of the team can begin.
He probably has some 50+ mil at his disposal, another wishful assumption.
What can he get for that? Not much, because Arsenal is not regarded as a first class winning club anymore, many world class young players would not take a big chance, in their careers, to join a team in disarray in a very tough league, led by a manager not at his peak anymore.
The gruesome reality is that Real Madrid can buy Ozil, Khedira or Sahin for around 10mil/each, but all that Arsenal can get for a similar amount is Koscielny.
If Cesc goes, for some good money, then the whole playing style has to be changed and that requires different types of players then currently in the team, which in turn requires more money.
AW is in South America looking at younger Denilsons and Velas so there is a very good chance that a big chunk of the available amount is already planned for some very young and very risky prodigies.
In the view of the players wanting to leave, the players who should leave, and the players AFC doesn’t want to afford, as well as the mental state of the manager, who REALLY needs some emotional rest, the qualifier for the CL is pivotal for the future marketability of the club in the world class players market..
AFC, being led by an all profit interested board, and an overworked and over egotistical manager, is in a situation where the under-performing team is disintegrating and realistic chances are few regarding the improvement of the team.
I’m as sick and tired of Denilson, Bendtner, Eboue, Almunia, Vela, as anybody, but I would like to add to the list Walcot, Djourou, Gibbs, Diaby, Squid, Fabianski. AW have waited and waited for some of them to become, and for others to consistently deliver, and he was let down.
This is a big chunk of the current squad. Can we really believe that things will change into better just because we all hope they will?
The facts are against us:
@Arsenalistul,
“The facts are against us”
Nero Wenger lives in a fact-free world.
And ofcourse he is searching for younger Denilsons and Velas. Those two were blockbuster successes, weren’t they?? ;-)
Trying times…..And nothing, absolutely nothing for Arsenal supporters to hang their hats upon….
Around the internet it’s all noise (i.e., Nasri) except where it’s quiet (i.e. Cesc). Taking statements twisted into headlines at face value is a fools game. Agents say things, players don’t deny them (or reinforce them) AND we don’t get the real information (like actual details about the length and value of contracts). If you choose to get your panties in a bunch over all this stuff, fine….I’ve come to the point where I find all sort of things entertaining, including bunched panties. (I like panties, I guess….)
The real problem for Arsenal and Arsenal supporters is that we’re pursuing financial responsibility and stability in a VERY irresponsible and unstable world. A jaundiced viewer will have to see that the two teams happy to blow money (Chelsea/City) will be England’s top two (at least POTENTIALLY) until that happiness subsides. And in this era of growing international support it also appears that teams with exposure (mostly from WINNING) and interesting history also have a chance (Man United, Liverpool and the two North London teams). The finances here are through game day receipts, shirt sales and debt. In this arena United are way ahead, with Arsenal and Liverpool now jockeying for runner up. (Spurs are the underdog’s underdog….). ‘Pool are on a (climbing) roller coaster, we’re boring, boring….
My point: we’re going to continue down the same path and no player will bring us to ransom. If Nasri is not viewed as the club’s best player it is unlikely we’ll pay him as such. If Cesc wants out, we will try to create a bidding war. If we continue to gamble on young players with good, long contracts we (and they) have to accept that they may be be around longer than their “potential” indicates and we will be subject to their absurd self-promotion (Bendy/Denilpoop). This, however could be the downside to promoting the various understudies and loanees as CK suggests (below).
All told, however, if we do not “get lucky” and overachieve (i.e. win a trophy or two) it’s all very predictable. We show promise but end up 4th (we pray) in England (and behind the other big spenders in Europe). Long term we’re well positioned as one of England and Europe’s top club if and when the others tire of pouring money down the hole. In the meantime we can only hope that we do our business and the players who end up wearing our shirt buckle down, continue their self-promotion (by contributing to the team effort), and we ride whatever collective-belief might come from any luck or good play that might ensue.
Overall then, it’s not a lot to get excited about and CHANGE, as long as it leads to some incremental improvement in the culture at the club, should be welcomed. It is depressing to see players using Arsenal as a stepping stone to the big money (less responsible?) clubs, but it is a fact we will have to endure. Once the dust settles the quality on the pitch (ability PLUS desire) is all that matters, and my hope is that we’ll have enough. IMO, it can’t get a whole lot worse than it did last season, but you never know…..
@highburyterracesteve, sometimes it has to get worse, before it can get better… take a step back, in order to take 2 forward.
@highburyterracesteve, sometimes it has to get worse, before it can get better… take a step back, in order to take 2 forward.
@highburyterracesteve,
Once again, you (and to be fair more than half of the Arsenal support) continue to heap the blame of our relative decline on money.
Money has absolutely NOTHING to do with our collapse. If we had done our business and beaten all the no hoper teams we lost points on (and that we would have beaten just 3 years ago), Man City and Chelsea with all their free spending would have ended BEHIND US.
Our problem are: a tactical clown as manager, a stubborn French ^&*% as manager, a manager who refuses to make simple changes to his squad year in, year out, but waits till the problem has become exponentially worse, and a lazy, not well trained squad.
For the upteempth time, money has NOTHING to do with anything.
Stop falling for Nero Wenger’s SPIN.
@Fred, Wrong. And there’s no need to twist my arguments or lump me into a group or otherwise try to distance yourself from me….If you are a true Arsenal supporter my arms are open to you for the hug you (and all the rest of us) need….(It stops at a hug…..) If not, I may have to break out the PUSSIES acronym again and ask you to support one of the Blue teams…..
IF the leader of the club could consistently pick cheap, talent, and IF he could develop that talent into instant on-field quality and IF he could make the correct tactical moves during matches maybe we’d have something and be in there with a shout…..
My point is that, relative to the teams above us and the other two, we are trying to compete without making financial LOSSES nor taking on DEBT, and the new ownership does not seem to deviating from this course. In this way we are at a natural HANDICAP to the other teams, particularly City and Chelsea. It would actually be FAR MORE INTERESTING if we could debate the MERITS of the long term financial approach rather than living in denial…..
Of course, I may be in denial myself. Arsene Wenger may be too stubborn to veer from the narrow course he is on or manage the squad he ends up with on September 1. My feeling is that the club is going to keep with him, so I will too (for the moment, at least). The pressure, however, is getting very intense and if bad things happen over the summer (good players out, only youngsters in, or otherwise being too stingy) and in the early season (losing the CL qualifier, dropping points to lower teams at home) the already frail support will turn even uglier. On the flip side, if good things manifest then some “belief” might build…..
BTW, I like the Nero reference and there WAS some serious crumbling/burning (even more than I predicted….) at the tail end. This will be a huge year for us in England. The other teams (except maybe Spurs, you know, lacking CL revenue….) will likely take bigger gambles than us this summer and Chelsea and City will almost certainly improve massively (dumping tired players, bringing in high priced talent at its peak) while United is a lure because you know, they WIN things (see for example, Samir Nasri…..) At some point, we’ll either do better than 4th (like 1st in one of the English comps.) or worse. Until then, we’ll have to watch together to see what sort of fiddler Arsene Wenger is: hopefully more Charlie Daniels than (Tommy’s) Uncle Ernie…..
@highburyterracesteve,
No need to get defensive.
AGAIN, for the UPTEEMPTH time … what the HECK does money have to do with anything???
Was it Chelsea blasting 50 million on Torres that made Arsenal lose a 4 goal lead against Newcastle? Was it Man City overpaying for Yaya Toure that cost us to lose after going 2 goals up against Spurs at home?
How exactly does Man City and Chelsea spending money have anything at all to do with our collapse in the second half of the season?
How does Man City and Chelsea spending money on their targets PREVENT Arsenal from going after its own less expensive, lower profile targets that could improve the team?
I haven’t seen reports of Man City and Chelsea going after Cahill, Samba, Parker, Oxlade, or any of our targets really? They usually go for their own high profilers and dont share the same target list as Arsenal or most other clubs!
So the idea that because Man City and Chelsea have lots of money, we are therefore “poor Arsenal” who cant possibly be expected to compete is laughable.
PS: Man U have almost the same revenue stream as Arsenal give or take (lower stadium receipts but higher money from their tours) YET they have NO PROBLEMS competing, winning leagues and getting to the latter stages of the CLs!!
Again, please stop falling for the Wenger SPIN!
@highburyterracesteve,
No need to get defensive.
AGAIN, for the UPTEEMPTH time … what the HECK does money have to do with anything???
Was it Chelsea blasting 50 million on Torres that made Arsenal lose a 4 goal lead against Newcastle? Was it Man City overpaying for Yaya Toure that cost us to lose after going 2 goals up against Spurs at home?
How exactly does Man City and Chelsea spending money have anything at all to do with our collapse in the second half of the season?
How does Man City and Chelsea spending money on their targets PREVENT Arsenal from going after its own less expensive, lower profile targets that could improve the team?
I haven’t seen reports of Man City and Chelsea going after Cahill, Samba, Parker, Oxlade, or any of our targets really? They usually go for their own high profilers and dont share the same target list as Arsenal or most other clubs!
So the idea that because Man City and Chelsea have lots of money, we are therefore “poor Arsenal” who cant possibly be expected to compete is laughable.
PS: Man U have almost the same revenue stream as Arsenal give or take (lower stadium receipts but higher money from their tours) YET they have NO PROBLEMS competing, winning leagues and getting to the latter stages of the CLs!!
Again, please stop falling for the Wenger SPIN!
@Fred, OMG, you guys and your double posts are killing me….
Yes, we have our own (shitty, lower priced, not ready for prime time) transfer targets along with youngsters out on loan, etc. Over the long term how the hell are we supposed to get on an equal footing with teams that can (or choose to) afford losing wasting huge money on players like Torres or Robinho or Adebayor (who would still slot in fantastically in the team he really loves–Arsenal). Money doesn’t matter…..That’s why Blackpool almost won the league…..You want Arsene gone, obviously, and maybe a different manager could’ve done better, but with younger, less experienced players (perhaps using Arsenal as a stepping stone club….) we are BOUND to cough up points we shouldn’t. If money doesn’t matter, please send me some of yours….
For me, last season is gone and we need to look forward. Way down below the double posts you ask why we should hope or expect our players to improve while others stay flat or go backwards? Because they’re (mostly) all young and/or new to the league (and possibly we can bring in some real talent AND desire to replace some dead wood). Arshavin (and Squillaci and Clichy) will not be improving, while players like RVP and Chamakh will be very lucky to match this past years output, despite their newness to the league or (finally) being relative fit for a few months. The teams above us have some seriously tired, very important players who need to be put down. I’m thinking of Lampard and Terry and maybe Anelka and Drogba (Essien and Cole are having battles with permacrockiness) while the current champs have guys like Rio F, Carrick, Fletcher, Giggs, Berbatov, Owen who are all long in the tooth. VDS and Scholes are done, as well may be Berbatov; and Michael Owen doesn’t even get calls when he goes down under Clichy’s touch….. Even players like Evra, Park and Vidic are unlikely to better the season they just finished…..And you’re right, Man City buy players at their peak, so improvement should be less. On this front, I am (guardedly) hopeful….
And hey, two (fairly long) posts and no love for the other fiddlers I mentioned?…..You do know “Tommy” (the Who, right)?….”I’m your wicked Uncle Ernie, I’m glad you won’t see or hear me, as I fiddle about”….
I thought a pedophile joke would be right up your alley….
@highburyterracesteve,
Your argument is full of BS … (nothing personal, just attacking your argument) …
1) Lower priced does not mean shitty. 90% of players cost less than 10 million. A lot of them would be a significant improvement on some of OUR players. The problem is the continous buying of the same mostly Francophone, not ready for the EPL BS players and then we go and OVERPAY for those. Koscielny cost MORE than Vidic.
2) Which fan is saying we should compete with Man City and Chelsea for the likes of Torres and Robinho?? Again, you still do not answer, what does Man City/Chelsea buying those top players have to do with our COLLAPSE???
3) Your comparing Arsenal with Blackpool is complete UTTER BULLOCKS, that is not worthy of a rebuttal.
4) We HAVE sufficient money to COMPETE. We do NOT need Man City/Chelsea money to compete. We make give or take the SAME REVENUE as Manchester United !!!! And oh, they JUST won the league and got to the CL final for the 3rd time in four years!!!
They are not overpaying clown youngsters, yet they have roughly the same wage bill as us. We do NOT need to rely on solely on youngsters. Man U mix and match!! The same that ANY top club should.
There are no fucking excuses.
5) Again, the “idea” that young players improve every season is a fallacy incepted into fans brains by Wenger’s SPIN. It has absolutely NO BASIS, so please stop repeating it. The players may improve, they may not. And given the LAZY culture at the club, it is far more likely they would not.
6) No point listing players at OTHER clubs that would be worse next season. How do you figure that? Because they are older than our players?? LOL.
Don’t daydream. Just assume they will be as strong as they are the last 5 seasons. Arsenal has to improve. NO EXCUSES.
7) Keep the pedophile jokes for Nero Wenger. He would appreciate it far more as he scours South America looking at 14 year olds.
@Fred, Only one post this time? I must have you on the run…..(winky face).
I love you too….btw, and feel, almost, a measure of respect coming my way….you know, behind the pain you’re obviously feeling and need to purge…..
The problem is that you’re twisting what I (and others) are saying in order to keep up the therapy/shouting. I REALIZE THAT YOU WANT WENGER GONE and I know that you believe others, even relative unknowns, could do much better. I actually think that you might be right…..
The thing is, for the moment at least, it AIN’T HAPPENING, so I don’t see the point in going to these incredible extremes in blaming people who accept that Wenger is still our manager. You’re stuck on last year (and beyond), I’d rather discuss the future….(which to me has some small glimmers of hope….)
Amidst the general bleakness, however….. We’re the fourth best team in England and I really don’t see us getting better, WITHOUT OVERACHIEVING. In fact, I think retaining 4th will be very difficult this season. There are a few hopeful ideas I cling to, but you’ve shouted me down on all of them, so you must be right, we are truly fucked. Oh well, that’ll send AW out sooner than later and we’ll see what his successor does. Maybe the new guy will not be so much in lockstep with ownership when it comes to avoiding debt (i.e., more like Sir Alex, ‘Arry Redknapp and Rafa Benitiez are/were with their owners). Who knows, maybe Silent Stan will just raise prices on all the small town folks who have to shop at Wal-Mart and they’ll pay for our own version of Anderson and Bebe (along with, hopefully, some good players, not to mention new contracts for the Rooneys/Nasris who put us over a barrel….) (A point that I’m TRYING to make is that ON AVERAGE and OVER TIME a player that costs 25-50 million pounds, and commands 150-300K per week, will be better than one that costs/earns much, much less. I’m sure I will be presented with a list of players that cost very little and earn nothing…..) And by the way, I think Kos will be a solid Arsenal player worth what we paid for him. Squillaci (whose signing you hailed at the time) not so much. For whatever STUPID reason I think 25 yr old Kos, has more potential than 30 yr old Squill, sorta like Jack Wilshere will probably do more in the future England MF than Paul Scholes or Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard or David Beckham will….
Finally, I think there COULD (not necessarily will….) be some merit to the financially responsible approach of the club I support (no matter who the manager might be), but that topic is off the table here. Ah well…..
Done for the day, so the last word is yours…..
@Fred,
As long as you accept and stop believing (and repeating) the Wenger lie that “we cant compete because of Man City and Chelsea”.
Those two are complete NON FACTORS with regards to Arsenal’s squad, tactics and overall lack of ambition.
We are NOT in any way competing for the same players as City and Chelsea. And we dont need to. Man U does not either.
Man U also have an operational profit, just like we do. (100% of their debt is Glazer’s). So they operate in a very similar way to us. And they ARE competitive. And they do solve their problems. And they do change things up. And they do not fill their squad with overpaid kids.
Instead of Denilshit for 60k per week, they have Darren Fletcher for 45k per week. Enough said.
@highburyterracesteve,
Once again, you (and to be fair more than half of the Arsenal support) continue to heap the blame of our relative decline on money.
Money has absolutely NOTHING to do with our collapse. If we had done our business and beaten all the no hoper teams we lost points on (and that we would have beaten just 3 years ago), Man City and Chelsea with all their free spending would have ended BEHIND US.
Our problem are: a tactical clown as manager, a stubborn French ^&*% as manager, a manager who refuses to make simple changes to his squad year in, year out, but waits till the problem has become exponentially worse, and a lazy, not well trained squad.
For the upteempth time, money has NOTHING to do with anything.
Stop falling for Nero Wenger’s SPIN.
From the Norfolk Gooner over at 7AMkickoff
“Defensively, we are shocking – the worst in the Premiership. Other teams may concede more but they are teams who spend a lot of time being outplayed – considering we have 65 or 70% possession in games we concede loads.”
That’s an absolutely brilliant point. Basically, that means we are the worst team in the league in defense when we don’t have the ball, which means we are the worst defensively.
That last statement may be a little over the top since I have not actually done the computations on a team like Blackpool which gave up a tremendous amount of goals, but we have to be in the bottom 3 at least.
@Caribkid, It’s true, we suck and last season felt as if we were more vulnerable than ever. Of course our extremely young and untested defense was made worse with TV5 being out. Kos did alright and Djourou had some good matches (and some very bad ones). Squillaci reprised the Sylvestre role, but fell short of Sol Campbell’s 1/2 season fillip….
And (of course) we were massively unsettled at Keeper. Our most experienced guy either got injured (but stayed in) for our first crushing home defeat (vs WBA) or got sat down for our first shaky Pole who also gave up some stupid points (vs. Newcastle at home) before being injured in turn by the other one. Our promising (but still 3rd choice!) 2nd pole then got hurt at a very bad time (Barca away) after making his first (epic and season-deflating) error at the end of time in the CC final(!) With the schedule cleared for the league run-in, our best GK performance came from a retiree (Jens Lehman–!!!) In many ways the sequence of events beggars belief…..
Meanwhile, a 19 year old shmurf (thank you Stag….) is our would be answer at DM. No wait, we don’t play a traditional holding player. Instead we encourage our three central midfielders and our fullbacks to surge forward and cover for each other on defense. Some have more natural defensive instincts (Sagna better than Clichy, for example) but the freedom involved puts tremendous pressure on the keeper and CBs. So, we’re bound to ship more goals than a more defensively oriented team (say ManCity….) but the payoff is that we score more goals, except that (for various reasons) our offense is anemic.
My point: In many respects the stats bear out the fact that we had a perfect (shit) storm defensively last season. (Of course maybe management could’ve done better, like reinforcing in the transfer windows and/or being more flexible with formations and team directives…..) Overall, except for the fact that our rivals will likely be strengthening more aggressively this summer, it gives me hope for the future, in that all the characters involved are young but gaining experience and should come back stronger (except maybe Clichy who hopefully will be replaced with a better LB).
At least that’s what I tell myself…..
@highburyterracesteve,
WHICH players are “young and will come back stronger” ???
It is absolutely not true yet people repeat this EVERY summer. Progress can not possibly be linear with players improving season upon season. If so then most players in the league would be much better as well, negating any improvements from our players. Except there is a belief that our players are “special”. That ofcourse would be a laughable belief.
I agree with you however on the whole “no defensive midfielder” situation.
Last year, when Song started bombing forward like a big fool, some of us were really peeved by this. The pie splashed hard on Nero Wenger’s face on that one.
@highburyterracesteve,
WHICH players are “young and will come back stronger” ???
It is absolutely not true yet people repeat this EVERY summer. Progress can not possibly be linear with players improving season upon season. If so then most players in the league would be much better as well, negating any improvements from our players. Except there is a belief that our players are “special”. That ofcourse would be a laughable belief.
I agree with you however on the whole “no defensive midfielder” situation.
Last year, when Song started bombing forward like a big fool, some of us were really peeved by this. The pie splashed hard on Nero Wenger’s face on that one.
@Caribkid, you said what’s in my mind, just much more eloquently.
I’m sick and tired about the seasonal hype about the “maturing” of the AFC youngsters.
For the people “believing” I can hardly wait for their reactions when AW will tell us that selling the current flops is not a good idea because of the homegrown player rule, or that we cannot really afford 2 good center backs or any other world class player, or that the new kids from Patagonia will take us further.
I will repeat over and over…
If Cesc wants to leave the club, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO FORCE HIM TO STAY… AND … HAVE HIM AS CAPTAIN?
Does that make ANY sense at all?
Same with Nasri… I think he’s a very good player. 90K a week is a very good salary… if you don’t want it, and you want to go, find someone who wants to buy him, and sell him… NOW.
Do NOT sell Fabregas or Nasri to a Premier League team. That is suicide… if we are that desperate for money, sell both to City.
Denilson – Bendtner – Almunia
Don’t know what the hold up is… get a decent price for them, and send them on their way.
Clichy?
Who is replacing him?
If we can get Leighton Baines, I’ll drive Gael to the airport.
If we are going with Gibbs… then you’ll be wishing we never let Gael leave … in a very quick fashion.
With a solid CB pairing…. Vermaelen / Cahill… with Sagna and Clichy I think we’ll have a pretty good back 4.
@stag133,
Clichy is a sure fire goner. He wants out. Which is just hilarious really considering his calamity strewn Arsenal career.
Needless to say, I am overjoyed.
PS: No sane person is bigging up Gibbs.
Either way, we can do much, much better than Clichy.
@Fred, makes sense to me that Clichy wants out… there are some big teams that are interested in him, who have better Central Defenders… and are TRYING to win trophies.
If losers like Denilson and Bendtner want out, despite being way over-paid with salaries that are not commensurate with acheivement, why wouldn’t someone like Clichy or Nasri want out as well…
Yes, we MIGHT be able to do better at LB the Clichy, but what makes you think we will sell him, and bring in a replacement with any experience? When have we done that? If he goes, I expect Gibbs to be starting, and that is unacceptable in a defense as shite as Arsenals.
At this point I am all for Nasri and Cesc leaving this summer. Not that I embrace the thought totally but it seems to make sense.
I love Nasri, but he seems to be a little arrogant and somewhat of a mercenary. His known disputes with both Henry and Gallas indicates he lacks respect for others. He would be missed, but if he is taking Arsenal as his Golden Fleece it’s better he leaves now rather than later.
Cesc has paid his Arsenal dues and if his heart is in Catalonia then god bless him and let him bid sweet adieu now rather than create a storm every summer which can only lead to unsettling the squad.
Without both of them we probably would win shite next year but long term, it would/could lead to reconstruction of a squad which bleeds arsenal and is prepared to fight for every trophy available.
Maybe this is the perfect time for massive reconstruction. Add Bendtner, Denilson, Squillaci and Clichy to the mix of outgoing, bring in 3 proven players and promote a few second teamer’s to see if they lift their game or fall to the wayside.
My three in would be Samba/Cahill, Hazzard/Witzel, Falcao/Lukaku. Promotions would be Lansbury, Botellho and Vela.
Push Walcott up front to to form a strike partnership with Chamakh, RVP and Falcao/Lukaku. Have Song, Wilshere and Ramsey as our starting mid field with Diaby and Lansbury as the back ups.
I know, what about a backup to Song? Well, Koz and Vermaelen can interchange in that role.
Not good enough to win hardware? Probably, but it would be a good foundation to reclaiming our place at the top with the likes of Myachi, Wellington, Galindo, JET, Afobe, Coquelin, Bartley, Jenkinson, Frimpong and Miquel lurking in the wings to prove or disprove their worth at the highest level.
“In a snap poll on a barca site today, Cules were asked who did they want more Thiago Alcantara or Fabregas, – only 16% wanted Cesc. Last year might have been the chance to move. This year looks a little less likely.”
You have repeated this several times and it is quite misleading.
First of all, the snap poll is an unscientific BS poll on a Barca blog. Meaningless really.
Thiago Alcantara does not exactly play the same role as Fabregas.
Also: Fabregas is EXTREMELY popular amongst the Barca players and the coaching setup. The player who wants him to join the most is Xavi (the player Cesc would be replacing long-term). Both Iniesta and Xavi have said repeatedly that they would happily take a cut in playing time to integrate Fab. Players dont mess around with their playing time.
He is not at all unpopular with the fans either. But you are correct in that money is their sticking point. They dont have much of it and they think it would be humiliating for them to pay 50 mill for a player they figure was stolen from them.
They are probably counting on Cesc putting in a transfer request to force things through.
But make no mistake, the Barca establishment WANT Cesc. He is the earmarked successor for the 31 year old Xavi.
Thiago is currently earmarked as backup/potential replacement for Iniesta.
Surprise, surprise, Nasri not only finally admiting he wants out … he is also admiting he is considering Man U!
LOOOL! I could see this coming from MILES away. From the exact moment he broke off negotiations in February and found out he had just a year left, I knew he would not extend his contract.
What I am a bit surprised by is how brazenly he is talking up a possible move to Man U. Waiting to see if “anything real and concrete” comes from Man U. LOL!
I guess this drives another dagger into the heart of the FALSE BS that our major players would leave if Wenger leaves (because they are loyal to Wenger!).
If a French twerp like Nasri can’t be loyal to Nero Wenger than who can?
“Most of the headers he scores at least to me seem more a case of luck than skill. Looking conversely at Marouane Chamakh, when he heads the ball even when he doesn’t score, the shot is one target, forces the keeper to make a save and is almost always a canon shot of a header.
Hmmm. I think it is the exact opposite. Most of Bendy’s headers are thumping headers (eg. the winner at Spurs a couple of years ago, etc), while most of Chamakh’s are soft, well placed ones.
That aside, I don’t get why you deduce his headers are by luck.
nasri must stay..
fabregas can leave, if he insists.
bendtner shoukd find another good club to give him a better chance in starting line up.. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)