Match Day 36: Arsenal v Stoke; Match Preview
Well, here it is the start of the final three games of the season. With pretty much nothing to play for except pride, Arsenal return to play against a club that is completely opposite of anything that Arsenal stands for. It is club Arsene Wenger likened to a rugby side and it is a club that is memorable to Arsenal fans – for all the wrong reasons. It is Stoke.
When this fixture occurred at the Britannia last season Arsenal succeeded in breaking a run of 4 successive matches there without a win. The 3-1 drubbing of Stoke last season though was marred by Shawcross’ wreckless challenge on Aaron Ramsey that left the young welshman with his Ankle dangling and broken. It caused a near riot of Arsenal fans that were there. The acrimony though was loud from Arsenal supporters everywhere.
This match though sees the return of Aaron Ramsey to the scene of the crime. With Cesc Fabregas likely to miss the match because of his lingering thigh injury, Ramsey will likely get the start again alongside Jack Wilshere. Ramsey looks to be returning to his pre-injury form and was the cog that won last week’s match against Manchester United.
Stepping aside for a moment from the obvious story line associated with this tie – the midfield pairing of Wilshere and Ramsey offers Arsenal fans a glimpse of the future. If as we all expect Cesc Fabregas leaves at some point for Barcelona, Ramsey and Wilshere are likley to be the pivotal players in the Arsenal attack. The tandem was quite good as was the whole midfield last week. Normally with Fabregas in the lineup, Song and Wilshere rotate on who stays back to play the DM role. But with Ramsey in the midfield, Wenger opted to have Song stay rooted to middle and let Ramsey and Wilshere go forward. This was part of the reason why I thought Arsenal did well against United last week.
Song was solid in the middle taking away any of the attacking threat which left Ramsey and Wilshere to venture forward and join that attack and use their creativity to try and open up United. While Stoke are not United they will present a challenge in the fact they will likely play with most of the team behind the ball. The directness of Wilshere and Ramsey in the middle will be important to trying to create something within the congestion Arsenal are likely to face. Song can sit in the middle and provide the necessary cover to the CBs in case Jones breaks free.
The other major story line with this tie is the possible return of Thomas Vermaelen to the squad. Vermaelen has been out since early September with an achilles injury that finally had surgery in March to fix. TV5 featured in a reserve match last week for a full 90 minutes and based on all the match reports I read was stellar. He won nearly every header that was there for him and was distributing the ball with tons of passes forward. As good as Djourou and Koscielny have been defencively this is something they lack in their game and it is why when Vermaelen is back fully fit will be one of the two starting CBs. With Djourou working on passing a fitness test, Vermaelen could be back in the squad for today’s fixture.
Like I said, there isn’t much left to play for. Sure, Arsenal are mathmatically in it. And should Chelsea and Arsenal win than the last two weeks might actually be interesting. But really its all about pride at this point. Some people are going to have to show that they should stay here next season. Though for the most part many of these 11 aren’t likely to get shipped out. Some of the subs, the same can’t be said for them.
How the Match Should Play Out:
Honestly the pressure is off and Arsenal play well without the pressure. Walcott is continuing to show that his pace is a problem for teams. Robin Van Persie is hitting more than he is missing and with Nasri facing a fitness test Arshavin will feature with them up front. This is still more than enough to handle Stoke and while players and manager won’t admit it, the team wants to drill Stoke into the ground. I suspect that Arsenal will get the early changes – it just remains to be seen if they sink them. If Arsenal can get 2 goals in the first half its toast for Tony Pulis’ side.
Players to Watch:
Arsenal: Aaron Ramsey. That was easy. It was 15 months ago when Ryan Shawcross needlessly and wrecklessly snapped Ramsey’s ankle in two. Now back at full health and already showing that he is returning to pre-injury form Ramsey will be the focal point as he needs to get beyond this match to show he is mentally past the injury.
Stoke: Ryan Shawcross. He really isn’t that kind of player. My ass. Stoke aren’t really that kind of team. My ass. Nuff said.
Probable Starting XI:
Injuries and Suspensions:
Arsenal: Fabianski (shoulder) Fabregas (thigh) Nasri (hamstring)
Stoke: Etherington (hamstring) Fuller (achilles) Sidibe (Achilles) Higginbotham (knee)
Leading Scorers:
Arsenal: Van Persie 19 (15 league) Nasri 15 (10 league)
Stoke: Jones 11 (8 league) Walters 11 (5 league)
Last Meeting: (EPL)
Arsenal: 1
Stoke: 0
Goals For:
Arsenal: 2.1 (away)
Stoke: 1.6 (home)
Goals Against:
Arsenal: 1.4 (away)
Stoke 0.9 (home)
Last Five:
Arsenal: WLDDW
Stoke: DWDLD
Goal Difference:
Arsenal: 32
Stoke: 0
Match Officials:
Referee: Mark Halsey
Assistant referees: Ceri Richards & Glenn Turner
Fourth official: Michael Oliver
Broadcast Information:
US: FSC 9:00AM EST
UK: Sky Sports 1 1400 BST
GAMEDAY CHAT: It’s Open!!!!!!
www.youaremyarsenal.com/gamedaychat
YAMA Prediction:
Arsenal: 2
Stoke: 0
The Final Word
I have read with some sense of disbelief that recent comments by Stoke fans and the local press in the buildup to this match. And frankly as I read it you wonder why Gooners have such a dislike for them and their team.
First some how they are of the nature that somehow Ryan Shawcross is entitled to Ramsey accepting the apology that Shawcross offered after the match. I’m sorry the lad nearly ended Ramsey’s career. Frankly Shawcross is lucky that Ramsey doesn’t clock him the head the first time they meet. What Stoke fans fail to recognize is this – Ramsey missed an entire year of his season. He was improving game over game. He saw Jack Wilsher’s ascendancy and likely was thinking – that should be me. But no. Because some no-talent useless fuck came in high on a 50-50 Ramsey had to have surgery, have his career set back and is only just now slowly showing some form. And as Arsenal fans are all to0 familiar there is the mental aspect to that recovery that comes into effect.
To give you a taste of the comments:
Ramsey is a c**t, too spinless and bitter to accept Ryan’s apology. I hope he gets it so bad he’s frightened off the pitch a la Commons and SWP
Or this. . .
he’ll break it again
he’ll break it agaiiiin
RYAN SHAWCROSS
he’ll break it again
maybe this one. . .
Fuckin have it Ramsey you whining bitter Welsh c**t. I hope he gets it snapped again.
And to further show their ignorance, I kind of love this one:
i think the arsenal scummers should be appluading whelan, he potentially saved ramsays life.
ramsay never came out in public to thank him either, hes a trully classless pric
I guess the spotty fuck missed this:
“I would like to thank the medical team here at Arsenal for their efforts as well as the staff at both hospitals. Glenn Whelan was especially kind and I really appreciated his immediate assistance on the pitch as well as the medical support from Stoke City.” – Aaron Ramsey
The other one I read was that a fan actually blamed Nicklas Bendtner for tugging on Ryan’s kit as the reason he went in late on Ramsey. Okay. If that is what you need to sleep at night fair’s fuck to ya. But your player did, has done it before and likely will do it again. So long as we defend players, because their nice chaps, or they didn’t do it intentionally, the game and teams like Stoke will always be looked upon as neanderthals.
Look, I personally, don’t think that Shawcross went in to break Ramsey’s ankle. I also don’t want the physical nature of the game taken out. But when you manage your players to “put it in” on a club, be it Arsenal or any other club, you invite your players to wrecklessly challenge oppposing players which more times than naught is going to result in injuries like what happened to Ramsey, Eduardo, Adebayour, Diaby. . . or almost happened to Scott Parker and others. Tony Pulis deserves as much blame for the way he manages his team. The fans, at least those like our friends I have quoted above deserve all the stick they bloody get. The sooner the kind of mindless play like this is taken out of the game, the better off the game will be for it.
For Stoke fans who say he should apologize – get over it. Ryan Shawcross got to sit out three matches and play for England in the immediate aftermath of the injury. Ramsey had 15 months of surgery, therapy, and rehab without ever knowing if he was going to play again. Some one tell me how an apology fixes all of that?
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while I think Cesc is a special player, and our best player by far… I’d be absolutely SHOCKED if we got anything close to 40 Million GBP for him…
why would Barcelona pay that much for him?
They are already the best team in the world without him… he wants to play there… and he’s oft-injured, and not motivated at Arsenal…
I’d be happy to get 30 Million for him from Barcelona.
However, ManCity want him… and we could probably get 50 Million from City! The question is, would we sell Cesc to City?
I think we would, because we don’t care where we get that extra 20 Million from… its more money for the club, board and reducing the debt.
I think it would be IDIOTIC to sell your best player to an EPL team, but I am not sure the board would care or think twice about it.
It should be an interesting Summer Saga Season… I am just not convinced we’ll be “players” in the market, as we rarely are… there will be LOTS of juicy gossip around our players wanting away, and linking them with other teams, because we are THE SELLING TEAM, and everybody knows it.
well, it appears that i’ve started something. that’s great.
for the record, i never said that fabregas was the reason we’ve failed to win anything. i would never blame a young player for something like that. i’ve only listed a few facts. you can call them coincidences if you’d like. i’m also smart enough to deduce how what i said caused such a reaction. i won’t apologize for that. if arsenal are going to return to the top, some things need fixing. no stone can go unturned; that includes francesc fabregas.
since wenger cashed in on adebayor, i’ve screamed for a new center forward; a proper #9 with pace, power and an eye for goal. while arsenal have plenty of problems, i believe the lack of a proper front man who can stretch play and create space for the team is the biggest. it’s proven exceptionally difficult to create scoring chances without one. every successful wenger team has had one.
if wenger buys a new striker, that means someone has to sit. who? i thought about this for a long time and, in my opinion, fabregas was the ideal candidate. both arshavin and van persie are better second strikers than fabregas will ever be. as for midfield, i think we should go more physically robust; that means not fabregas. we simply can’t be soft in the middle. in fact, we need to be physically devastating in the middle. cesc isn’t a defender or wide player. so where does he fit?
over the past six years, wenger has changed tactics and formations and moved that kid around to make him fit. sometimes players, despite tremendous talent, just don’t fit. i didn’t see how it was going to work in 2005 and, unless he has a flamini type partner, i still can’t see it. we won titles without a fabregas type before. maybe we need to revisit. besides, you need a strong desire and not just talent alone to win the bpl. right now, fabregas’ only desire is to move back to spain. so no, i don’t think cesc has the desire required to win the bpl.
so give me a carlton cole/dejmba ba-type center forward (since they’re going down), stekklenberg in goal, and a mobile and physically imposing cm with a decent pass (scott parker since they’re going down) and despite possibly losing fabregas, i think arsenal have a super chance at winning a title. we’ll see.
@joshuad, Very nice, josh…I was just penning one of my early morning blogs disagreeing (in the nicest possible terms….) about selling Cesc. Maybe I’ll cut and paste it or otherwise re-work some of it later….
Personally, I don’t think you need to bench him….You just need to pony up the cash to give him a big contract extension (and up his wage). AW’s “vision” has always been to have a free flowing offense of 5-6 attackers who can go central (or wide) and cover for each other if (god forbid) the other team is in possession. Cesc is at his very best playing deeper, running onto balls, scanning the pitch and playing QB which is much easier near the center circle. Wilshere, Ramsey and Song (and even Diaby) are decent understudies, but, like the old Carly Simon song says, “Nobody does it better”…..(nor has the range of passes….)
But you’re right, you need targets: Targets with mobility and skills and clinical finishing ability. RVP (if he can stay fit) can do it. Nasri (in the open field at least) looks serviceable. Theo needs (lotsa) work, but at least put away some one on ones this season. Makh and Bendy look pretty damn hopeless. They say you can’t teach size, but pace is hard to learn as well…..
I think the pressure on AW (and Kronke) is immense to spend some money. Keeping Cesc is step one (then Nasri and maybe even Clichy….) But a big name striker would do the trick–gotta match ‘Pool and Chelsea and City’s January activity, ideally before they get going again this summer….. Benzema’s name keeps coming up but I prefer others (Pato, Higuain, Aguero….) and I too have been impressed by Demba Ba, but he’s a freebie…..
If Arshavin ends his loan spell and returns to Zenit there are oldsters aplenty to replace him who might actually run and be seen in the forest of slow English defenders, (Forlan, Eto’o, Raul, even Van Nilstelroy and Anelka…..) though it seems far less likely that AW will head down that road…..
It’s all a dream, really, but we are facing some tough times ahead, having given A LOT of hope to our rivals…..And it beats the nightmare scenarios (Cesc/Nasri out, Frimpong/JET in…..) that haunt the true (dis)believers….
@joshuad,
Still running these random false arguments disguised as “facts” hey?
If Fabregas is the AM in a 4-3-3 then why are you slamming him for not being a good “second striker”.
Keep on blaming it all on our ONLY competent, world-class player.
When you made the argument that Denilson was a young Beckenbauer, I thought surely, no one could top that in ridiculousness. Wrong.
@Fred, i haven’t blamed cesc for anything.
everyone knows that i’m talking about the playmaker that supports the center forward, be it 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. in typical fred fashion, you focus on some trivial minutiae in an effort to legitimize an argument instead of focusing on the topic. piss off, kid.
@joshuad,
Something you used a paragraph to explain is now minutae? LOL
Again, stop the FALLACY that he is some sort of second striker. In the 4-4-2 era, he NEVER played the second striker, only Hleb did.
In a 4-3-3, there is NO second striker role. Or do you now want to claim Iniesta is the second striker at Barca.
If so, then you have no idea about the formation.
Ronaldo got another hat-trick today and now has 36 goals in La Liga, 49 total goals for the season. Wow. Now, here’s a midfielder who would be amazing to have in one’s fantasy league :) In La Liga, he has at times been deployed as the only striker for Madrid, yet any goals from him count as midfielder’s 6 points for a goal. l had Ronaldo for the Champs League fantasy league but only 6 goals there and not the same thing. Now, everyone in Madrid is looking for him to break the 38 goal number, so you can be sure he will notch a few more. And no one in Real Madrid will dare take a penalty if Ronaldo is on the pitch.
To reply to the various posts below:
I agree with Kiwi that selling Cesc for anything less than 40m GBP is a big rip-off for Arsenal…. but I think it probably will be less than that. For one thing, the whole world knows he wants out, which always lowers a player’s value. Second we are a selling club in the context of big-time, big-club European football, and that also makes his value lower since everyone knows were aren’t exactly desperate to hold onto our players.
I also think if Cesc leaves, there could easily be a domino effect, the most likely to follow being Nasri.
Which ties in with the other mini-discussion that’s been going on: King Kenny Dalglish and the rise of Liverpool. What he has done since being appointed is remarkable (but not surprising based on what I’m told by those who can remember his former coaching and playing days). Next year he will have the ENTIRE season to work his magic.
So, if we lose Cesc, our BEST player over the last five years, ‘no ifs, ands, or buts,’ we are going to be in DEEP SHIT…. which could be beneficial long-term. We’ve all seen what Dalglish can do at Liverpool; Spurs will likely re-tool to try again for the top 4; Chelsea have Roman and they will no doubt re-load this summer; City will re-re-re-load this summer; and United… well, they’re… United.
To be honest, in virtually every season since the end of our 9-straight seasons of finishing 1 or 2, people have been saying that THIS is the year we will fall out of the top 4(!). And I’m being 100% honest when I say I’ve NEVER once agreed with them. But if Cesc leaves and Arsene/The Board won’t/don’t try to rebuild, I would bet AGAINST us finishing in the Top 4 in the 2011/12 season… nothing is pre-ordained, and the 5 clubs I just discussed all realize that. Does Arsenal?
Whoopsee….. we might be 4th
@Kiwi, If that were to happen, then this would certainly be a collapse to top them all. From battling for 1st, to holding onto 2nd and now 3rd might go down to the wire. Incredible really, but then again, not really.
Regarding Liverpool. You were right back in Jan that the two buys generated a lot of good buzz and feeling about the club. Even when there were some setbacks in the last few months, the overall mood has been seen as a positive. While, even when Arsenal were 2nd, things felt like a let down.I remember thinking back in January Suarez might end up being more useful than Andy and would appear to be a bargin. Yet, I am even surprized at how well he has done, from the little I have seen.
As for Daglish. I was not sure if he would achieve the same given he was away from the game for a while but he has an amazing aura about him, the backing of the fans and even the dressing room. Wenger seems to have lost his dressing room completely and I do not think he can motivate them to do basics.
If you remember we used to discuss that Superclub book a few years ago but back then I never imagined that Wenger would evolve into the COO that you mention. Maybe that is appropriate really. Wenger has been trying to get some players to play in positions for which they are not suited. In order to motivate the players, Wenger himself has continued in a job that is not his strongest element any longer while he has evolved into a candidate for another job. Maybe that was part of the plan after all. Basically, Wenger was in training for the last few years for his eventual COO role. If so, then it will go down as one of the most expensive job training sessions in history.
On Fabregas and ‘his price’. I’d punt his value at 40-45 million pounds, anything less and we’ve undersold. Fabregas is one of the worlds best midfielders imo and at his uber peak in age/stage. He is as clean an iconic star as you can buy and the club that gets him has bought a diamond.
I’m happy for Liverpool and Kenny Dalglish. I upped his appointment when many (who likely have no reservoir of history to draw on) dismissed it. Kenny Dalglish was rare, incredibly rare, a superstar player that morphed into a superstar manager. He was ahead of his time and had his teams play a superb attacking style that was both thrilling and pragmatic. You’ll note the necessary tension between style and pragmatism – Dalglish has it (he’s not a COO – that’s someone elses job).
Liverpool as a club also have my admiration. They are class. Their supporters and footballing values are class. Their demise under Benny was very sad. Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal are the true icons of English football. Chelsea are newboys, only time will tell if they join this iconic group.
So, great to see them coming back. I hope the break Kenny Dalglish has had has enabled him to recover from the emotional trauma he endured with Liverpool many years ago when many supporters were crushed to death in the stadium tragedy and that he can end his career as a winner at the club. Both he and Liverpool are deserving.
@Kiwi,
Not shocked here about his success (was one of the few on here who agreed with you on his appointment and the buying of the two strikers).
@Fred,
I remember Fred. Managers tend to have traits that repeat – Kenny is happy to pay big on strikers – Barnes, Bearsdley, Aldridge, Rush at Liverpool – Sutton & Shearer at Blackburn – and now the two new boys at Liverpool. He was one of the finest ever strikers and clearly knows how to buy and stitch together A-grade striking partnerships. I’d never bet against him.
The fall in the attitude and performance of Cesc Fabregas over this last season was predictable to many (perhaps most) but not to those who wanted to maintain their belief in Arsene Wenger. There are human motivations (that also apply to football) that can only be disrupted for so long, after which the natural urges for things like success and satisfaction are too great to resist.
In the off-season we heard upbeat statements such as “Cesc is too professional not to perform well” and “75% of Cesc is enough”. All of this ignored the simple truth that for a player of the importance of Fabregas in this Arsenal team nothing but 100% commitment and focus and motivation is enough. He’s the captain, the lynchpin, the conduit, the metronome, the icon…. and all in a team that has long been fragile and desparately in need of a an inspiring leader.
No, we simply delayed the natural. Cesc got tired of dragging the dead carcass that is this latest iteration of Arsenal-youth-&-cheap and looked ever-the-more fondly at his home-town club bestridding Europe and creating history before his very eyes. He looked at his age and noted that he’s now absolutely in his prime and did the maths and noted that prime-time doesn’t last that long. He also noted in the off-season and again in the transfer window that the manager did essentially nothing to improve the teams probability of success. What would you do? What would anybody do? You’d say, I’ve given Arsenal a really good innings, I’ve served my time, and I’m free to go.
I feel for Cesc, I think he was a worthy lynchpin and icon, I think we could have built a winning team around him, yet he was both a beneficiary and a victim of Wenger’s decline as a manager and rise as COO.
@Kiwi, LOL brilliant!
Wow.
If Tottenham lose today, and they are down 1-0 late…
LIVERPOOL will be in 5th place… back from the DEAD.
They made moves in January, got rid of Torres, and you can say whatever you like about how much they paid for Carroll… he’s the guy they wanted, and they wanted an ENGLISH CORE… and what they have done the last 3rd of the season has been pretty impressive. If they get 5th place and a spot in Europe, they will be THRILLED.
And a one year run for Tottenham in the Top 4… means they’ll once again have to make changes and try to improve.
City look good for 4th… they have spent a lot, but have made the next step into the Top 4 (elite?) of the EPL.
City will be 2 points behind us, with 2 to play.
They could get 3rd, because us getting 4 points from the remaining 2 games, is hardly a LOCK, innit.
If they lose Tevez, they better completely reload with high quality.
I’d take the money we get for Cesc, and splash it on Carlos Tevez.
But hey, that’s just me. :skeleton:
@stag133,
You better believe that Liverpool will be gunning like crazy for not just Top 4 but the league title next season.
Dalglish doesn’t mess around.
With 3 or the Top 4 being locked by Man U, Chelsea and City, and with us losing both Fabregas and Nasri, the Wenger Babes asses are in the line of fire.
@stag133,
PS: Funny how the transfer market freshens things up.
They sold a wantaway and got TWO fresh players, zero expenditure …. and boom …. they are back from the bottom!
And Arsenal fans (the AKB ones anyway) were blasting them for daring to use their OWN money to make their squad better.
If that were Arsenal and Wenger, we would have sold Torres and bought NOBODY while telling the masses that “no quality players exist in January!”
@Fred,
“If that were Arsenal and Wenger, we would have sold Torres and bought NOBODY while telling the masses that “no quality players exist in January!”
Wrong! We would have sold Torres and bought nobody while telling everyone that Vermalen’s recover was just around the corner, so that’s like a new signing, plus we can recall Ramsey whenever we want, so really it’s like TWO new signings!
@Fred,
<<If that were Arsenal and Wenger, we would have sold Torres and bought NOBODY while telling the masses that “no quality players exist in January!”
Of course, or this would have been the other option.
If that were Arsena and Wenger, then we would have sold Torres, and then immediately used a portion of the money to offer further long term deals to Denilson, Diaby, Almunia and then maybe fork out $4 million to buy a 15 year old from Bolivia, who would be immediately loaned out for 3-4 years.
NEW AKB ANGLE:
The last six years of utter failure – on the backs of completely undeserving, overpaid, low-quality Francophone clowns, a lack of managerial technical nous and stubborness in tactics and in the transfer market – is down on ……. drumroll …. Cesc Fabregas.
He is the real villain here. No one else.
@Fred, really Fred… you know that anyone that wants to go… is a judas, wasn’t that good, and wasn’t worth what we sell them for… it will be “good business”.
@stag133,
Yup, he is useless and we should let him go for “20 million” according to some!
@Fred, well, we usually get less for our stars than most clubs. We took less for Vieira and Henry than anyone excpected…
30 Million for Cesc will get it done.
I wouldn’t be shocked if Arsenal took less than that.
Since its not my money, and its not money the club will likely spend on new players coming in… then the amount really doesn’t matter to me… I don’t really care how much profit we make.
If we got 30 Mill, and spent it ALL on 1 or 2 proven stars coming in… I’d be more “ok” with it…
I just see the money going straight into the pockets, and coffers, and to … “reducing the debt”… and that’s whats best for the ummmm… long term interests of the football club.
As a supporter, that is what you should be looking out for!
LOL
@Fred, really Fred… you know that anyone that wants to go… is a judas, wasn’t that good, and wasn’t worth what we sell them for… it will be “good business”.
I cannot agree that Cesc is the reason why we cannot win anything. I do not even believe cesc is poor defensively when he puts in the effort he has done in the past he has proven he has substantial defensively qualities.
No he is not a beast like Vieira neither is a beast with enormous energy ala Flamini, but he no longer appears to possess the attitude that was paramount in his partnership with Flamini and culminated in one of his best DF performances, against AC Milan away in the CL.
The fact is Fabregas no longer believes in this team and does not believe in his own abilities enough to know that if he puts in that kind of ‘AC Milan’ effort in week in week out he can be the catalyst to our success.
However I do feel Fab needs a high energy counterpart, Song is not the answer IMO although I rate the guy. Coquelin may be the answer eventually but I do not know if he has what it takes to do the business next season, especially with the deflated Cesc that we have in our team these days.
@ArfaSheds,
A balanced view me thinks.
That the last six winless years are all about Cesc…well…that’s simply wrong on a bunch of levels.
As to why, for many of us, the reasons have already been beaten into the ground, so I’ll save my energy and DAG’s bandwidth.
@vibe4arsenal,
It’s a defence mechanism for his inevitable departure.
We also heard exactly the same bullshit before Gallas left.
At the time of his sit down protest people were going on about how that wasn’t the conduct of a captain, and he was the poison in the dressing room stopping this young crop from reaching their potential. Fair enough, Tony Adams he wasn’t, but at the time I just laughed at Gallas sit down protest and the furoure over it, and sympathised with him, because he was reacting to the main problem ; Wenger’s pampered dense babies. Yet he was portrayed as crazy selfish Gallas throwing his toys in the pram. Of course, when he left didn’t those little pups just blossom? :struggle:
Gallas was a beast that season, an inspiration for the first six months. Incredible how even then the AKB’s were twisting reality.
@Mazza,
I do remember you saying that about Gallas. In hindsight, I agree even more than I did at the time. He obviously didn’t handle that in the best way possible, but I understand the frustration.
As I do with/for Cesc. The idea that the most right thing with our club could somehow be morphed into the problem…he probably needs to get out for his sanity. The rest of us, sadly, are stuck.
@vibe4arsenal,
I remember I was on my own with that one at the time, but it didn’t take too long for you and a few others to see it as well. I’m more referring to those who were still saying it a couple of years after and even when he left last year :shock:
Cesc is gone, no doubt about it, and as a result things will really reach a head next season, and unravel badly. It will be just typical of Wenger to sign someone like Benzema this summer, just as Cesc leaves, when he should’ve pushed the boat out for him or Suarez last summer when persuading Cesc to stay. The Chamakh signing was utterly laughable when viewed in that context.
@Mazza,
To be clear, I’ll never be comfortable with what Gallas did from a professional perspective. But as symbolic of the frustration from the mess Wenger has created, why not?
I also agree that AW will likely bring in someone in this Summer that might have put us over the top a season or two ago, but will now only help tread water.
@Mazza, Gallas?! really.
He was no beast. And we aren’t worse off without him. He’s been injured and going nowhere with the Totts.
He didn’t get along with too many of the young wonderkids… especially Nasri.
William Gallas was not the solution, and not the reason for our failures with his departure.
Try again.
@stag133,
He wasn’t the problem though.
And he saved us an innumerable number of times during that season and stepped up in big games. Remember the equaliser against United in the 2-2? Or the winner against Chelsea? How about his man of the match performace against United during his supposedly dodgy spell at the start of the 08/09 season? This was the time shortly before Wenger stripped him for telling the truth.
He was shite last year and I was glad he left in the end, but that’s not really the issue. His departure did prove however that his attitude had no relevance to our glass jaw.
i think cesc is a dynamite talent with an exceptional eye for a forward pass and a wide passing range. but what else does he bring? are we a soft touch with him in midfield? does he provide leadership? does he cover a lot of ground? does he often win the ball?
his best position is center midfield but to win the bpl, a cm needs more than just a good forward pass. arsenal have tried to win with fabregas for six years but it simply hasn’t worked. wenger abandoned his 4-4-2 to compensate for cesc lack of midfield presence but it didn’t work. wenger’s relieved cesc of his defensive responsibilities by playing him as the second striker but that hasn’t worked either. cesc has played along side both vieira and gilberto and still hasn’t won a championship. why?
if you look around the league, midfielders in the top teams defend. cesc doesn’t defend well enough. anderson, carrick, park ji sung, lampard, essien, mikel, ramires, lucas, gerrard, meireles, kuyt, barry, and yaya toure all defend better than fabregas. even luka modric defends better than cesc. defending in midfield is essential to winning the bpl. like iniesta and xavi, cesc fabregas isn’t strong enough defensively to win in england; unless he has a flamini-type character doing his dirty work for him. even when playing for spain, if they’re trying to secure three points from a winning position, who’s the first player spain takes off?
in wenger’s first 9 years at arsenal, his team finished the league first or second every year. the past six years since cesc has moved into the team, arsenal hasn’t even come close to winning a championship. hell, we haven’t even been able to finish second. wenger built this team around cesc believing his talent could win arsenal silverware but i think it time to pursue a different route. wenger could seek out another flamini-type player to be a cesc foil, but what would that mean for song and wilshere? my loyalty would be to players that want to be here. i don’t hate fabregas but i’m more loyal to arsenal than to cesc. i’m not suggesting that cesc is our main problem as i’ve declared since the summer that we need a proper center forward but i’d accept a 20 million pound bid for cesc. we’ll see.
@joshuad,
Fabregas is a better defensive midfielder than Diaby, Denilson, and Song. When fully fit.
Watch him against Bolton January 2010. He was carrying Diaby in that game – who was doing his usual jogging Scooby Doo impression throughout. The best midfield performance of his Arsenal career IMO, and just before his hamstring went against Burnley after starting that game like a house on fire as well. His hamstring injuries have affected his game and excaberated his relative lack of pace and mobility.
The problem as well is his role in the team. He’s supposed to be breaking through the middle higher up the pitch so he can receive balls on breakaways. Defending incessantly is not his role, and as others have mentioned, it’s not his fault if the other clowns cannot perform theirs. When fully fit he can play in the hole and also defend very well, whereas when he’s not 100 % he is caught between two stools.
A couple of years ago I too fell for the ‘we might be better without Fabregas” sentiment after watching us beat Porto 5-0. Nasri showed more ability to feint, a sleight of foot and overall superior dribbling dexterity. However a cursory glance at ALL the other games played without Fabregas showed we created precisely zilch, and I came back to my senses very quickly.
Only with Hleb being the main man did we threaten without Fabregas in the domestic grind ;)
@Mazza, A few years ago you were having to defend your incessant comments that claimed Fabregas was overrated and not world class remember :-P
Hleb the main man, you are… having a laugh ;-)
@joshuad,
Doubling down on the most ridiculous comment in Arsenal blog history hey?
Fabregas, the guy who has been LITERALLY holding the team together is now the “problem”? Typical spin.
Sure, Fab is now nothing more than a “good forward pass”.
You list all sorts of random “reasons” all non-plausible.
Attacking our AM and chief creator for not doing defensive work in a 4-3-3? Really?
He allegedly can not survive in a 4-4-2 yet he did just FINE with a proper partner in Flamini.
Have you ever thought maybe clowns like Song, Denilshit, Diaby and co. are just pathetically insufficient partners for ANY serious player??? I am guessing not.
Cesc does not defend well … BS!!!
Compared to other AMs, he is better at that than Lampard and Scholes! Scholes is completely craven defensively. Didnt stop those from having LONG successful careers in the EPL.
And ofcourse for the most ridiculous part …. how the last six years is all because of Fabregas …. and nothing to do with the other utterly crap midfielders and players.
The comment about how bringing in a new Flamini would be bad for Song and Wilshere just sums it up very nicely!
Who the hell are Song and Wilshere????????
Not bringing in a competent supporting cast (so that you dont “kill” the useless ones you currently have is EXACTLY why Fabregas never delivered an unjustified title to the FAILED Wenger project.
But dont mind all this, leave the tin-foil hat and blame it all on Fabregas.
I really cant wait for him to leave and go to a proper team where he can get all the medals his talent deserves. And so that the Wenger Girls team can exposed as brutally as it deserves to be.
@joshuad,
“even when playing for spain, if they’re trying to secure three points from a winning position, who’s the first player spain takes off?”
??????
Fabregas usually does not start, he comes on.
When he does start he is the most advanced midfielder in the team. So you are telling us that when a team wants to defend, they take off their attacking player and replace with a more defensive one??
Wow, great insight.
In the WC final, with the game on the balance, Xavi and Iniesta were passing almost SOLELY to Fabregas. Maybe those two premium midfielders have a great deal of respect and trust in Fabregas’ quality at such a crucial time in such a crucial match?
Oh wait, but look, he does not do crunching tackles like a DM and win towering headers! Sigh!
The REAL clubs are not wasting any time. The season has not ended yet business is being done.
Madrid have already secured Nuri Sahin (inspirational Dortmund playmaker) for less than 10 M pounds and are looking to secure Adebayor long-term and bring in Tevez!
They plan to pay for it all by selling Kaka to Chelsea (his mother seems to have confirmed it as per soccernet).
Summer. Fun times …………. for NON Arsenal fans.
@ChicagoGooner,
The idea that we cant win the EPL with Fabregas is absolutely ridiculous. F&)king crazy.
Fabregas can easily win the league in the setups at Chelsea and Man U. (And yes, he will walk into both teams).
How on earth is it his fault he has to play beside absolute planks in midfield who dont give him any protection whatsoever – while trying to avoid career-ending injuries?
The only AMs in Europe better and more consistent that him are Xavi and Iniesta. And those two are too weak for the EPL.
Imagine what will happen when he takes his relative physical robustness back to Spain.
Fab is the one guy that can add anything to Man U or Chelsea.
If Man City got a hold of him, they are immediately title challengers.
If Spurs or Liverpool got a hold of him, that team immediately supplants Arsenal in the top 4.
Bendy is being quoted in the press as saying he wants out of Arsenal. I’ve never really liked him and his gripes about playing time have always pissed me off. He’s an egotistical brat who doesn’t have the requisite amount of talent to go with his ego.
But I can’t blame him for his most recent complaint. In fact, I fully agree with him: he’s damn tired of being played out of position on the freaking wing when he is a lumbering CF. Why stay at a club that wants to use him as a substitute winger when there are dozens of clubs who would be thrilled to have him as a starting CF?
@ChicagoGooner,
He should go ASAP.
He can make it as a top striker at Dortmund, Schalker, Hamburg or Leverkusen. He would also do very well for himself at a club like Everton, Newcastle or Aston Villa.
He will never be a world-class striker, but if he is a starter and the team plays around his strengths and he just runs behind the lines, he can easily best Dzeko or Caroll goal records.
At Arsenal, more than half his games were spent on the right or left wings. Criminal management.
@Fred,
“He should go ASAP” ; “He will never be a world-class striker,”
Is this the same guy you dubbed “the Bendtmeister”? and you Lord Mazza claimed would be twice as good as Adebayor.
Anti-bayor 52 is only good enough for the likes of Hamburg or Newcastle while Ade plays for Real Madrid how ironic.
@ArfaSheds,
The addition of the suffix “meister” here in the US is a common tongue in cheek addition that other Americans on here would get easily and no one on here would would confuse it as praise (like you apparently have).
I would explain further, but as you have never actually been out in the West (other than that day trip ofcourse), it might just fly over head.
@Fred, Yes you’re right, I did consider it to be praise, as you often praised Bendtner quoting his minutes on to pitch to goal ratio and any other statistic you could use to defend him, I assumed you were a great fan of his. But hey I should not expect you to be loyal to him it’s just not in your nature is it.
And of course since I am totally ignorant of your mother tougue I assumed meister was German for master :-D
I do apologise for my lack of knowledge concerning American “tongue in cheek” statements, I suppose I will need to watch several episodes of Friends or something of that calibre to get up to speed, oh dear ;-)
@ArfaSheds,
I was comparing his goals per minute to that of Chamakh – to disprove the nonsense that Chamakh was a “far better” player than Bendy as some were suggesting. You do know what “comparison” means right?
@ArfaSheds,
At Real for now….
Then he will shipped off onto some other club like he always is.
He’s done absolutely f-all at Madrid bar the goals versus Spurs.
@Mazza, Still, it is ironic though? :-D Twice as good as Ade and career looks to be going downhill.
@ArfaSheds,
Both are better than Crapmakh anyway. Jesus wept, what a woeful player.
As for Ade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgGKSjiw0HQ&feature=related
Interesting stuff Josh, though I’m not 100% sure I agree (I may agree, I just have to think it over awhile longer). Do you really think it’s not possible to win the EPL with a player like Fab? I don’t know if I’d go that far. He is a truly special talent, and though his style is best-suited for La Liga (really any continental league would be better than England), I think it’s painting with too broad a brush to say it’s impossible to win the EPL with him.
I’d say it is impossible to win the EPL if all you have are small, finesse players like Fab. Probably half the players on our first team are small, technical players whose best position is in the middle of the pitch, somewhere between the DM and CF. They have different styles and skills (and none are as talented as Fab) but they all have a similar build and work the best in the same spot on the pitch.
Fab could win the EPL if he were on a team that had players whose talents complemented his. But that doesn’t fit with Wenger’s current vision of football.
p.s. congrats to flamini on winning the scudetto. for the record, i’ve never referred to him as a headless chicken and have always thought he was a good player.
fred, are you still lying? grown men are supposed to speak the truth, fred. i do agree with your bit about gibbs at lb and chamakh’s poor effort on goal. despite not playing, chamakh’s been fit enough to train so there’s no excuse for such a poor strike on goal.
the writing was on the wall from the moment wenger replaced vieira with fabregas. one was suited for the bpl and one isn’t. one did the work of two men while the other does the work of half a man. i’ have often compared having vieira to having a license to cheat or steal. he was an advantage that arsenal had and there was no way fabregas, despite his talent, was ever going to be an adequate replacement. we’ve been called a soft touch ever since fabregas replaced vieira in our midfield. wenger compensated for fabregas’ lack of presence by putting an extra midfielder along side him but without someone with the work rate to do cesc’s defensive work, ala flamini, arsenal can’t win a bpl title with fabregas in midfield. wenger’s even moved fabregas into the #10 position but he’s not a legitimate #10. the stupid thing about that is arsenal have four players who are better second strikers than fabregas that are being played out of position so that fabregas can play.
i said such back in 2005 on the old site but both stag and myself were put down for our stance on fabregas. well, time always tells. when we lost vieira, we lost our soul. we not only lost paddy’s presence in midfield, we lost his leadership on the pitch and in the locker room and, with henry becoming captain, we also lost our #9. sure, we’ve looked like clowns defending, especially with djourou losing form over the past few weeks but the reason arsenal lost the title this year has been the inability to turn their massive ball possession into good scoring chances.
i’ve got ideas for solutions but i’ve got to go to work. i’ll post those ideas when i have time.
@joshuad, Fabregas is a special player… he has crazy passing skillz that are rare…
Wenger did not even try to replace Vieira in any way, shape, or form… unless he somehow thought that because Diaby has a similar lanky body-type, that he would morph into him?
But I believe Wenger wanted a completely different type of team than the Champions he had …. the Invincibles…
They played hard, had each others backs, were tough and gritty when they needed to be… they got a lot of red cards!… and didn’t put up with any shit on the pitch from other teams…
They moved the ball up the pitch with alarming speed… passing FORWARD, incredible counter attacking, that other teams could not deal with.
Now… we try to keep all the possession, and pass the ball back and lateral… all game… have no tough defenders, have no toughness in midfield… and teams fear nothing about us… we play a one-dimensional, pass-happy, soft style of football…
and Wenger 1000% created and is responsible for it… it is HIS team.
You CAN win with Fabregas … you just have to surround him with the right players… and Wenger hasn’t done that.
@stag133,
Exactly, besides no matter what we would have had to replace Vieira at some point anyway, he wasnt going to play forever.
Fabregas is a CERTIFIED winner. Arsenal’s woes have nothing to do with him. He was cheated by not being played in a competitive team.
@joshuad, Fabregas is a special player… he has crazy passing skillz that are rare…
Wenger did not even try to replace Vieira in any way, shape, or form… unless he somehow thought that because Diaby has a similar lanky body-type, that he would morph into him?
But I believe Wenger wanted a completely different type of team than the Champions he had …. the Invincibles…
They played hard, had each others backs, were tough and gritty when they needed to be… they got a lot of red cards!… and didn’t put up with any shit on the pitch from other teams…
They moved the ball up the pitch with alarming speed… passing FORWARD, incredible counter attacking, that other teams could not deal with.
Now… we try to keep all the possession, and pass the ball back and lateral… all game… have no tough defenders, have no toughness in midfield… and teams fear nothing about us… we play a one-dimensional, pass-happy, soft style of football…
and Wenger 1000% created and is responsible for it… it is HIS team.
You CAN win with Fabregas … you just have to surround him with the right players… and Wenger hasn’t done that.
@joshuad,
Lying? What the f&&& are you talking about??
Josh, how about you actually read all the comments (not only from this thread) before making any other retarded, “drive-by” responses on the issue. Its called due dilligence.
——————————————————————–
As for the midfield, it goes without saying, the strongest midfield always win.
The problem is not just Fabregas, but who he is partnered with. We have been in need of a strong, enforcer type and a strong DM for 4-5 years now.
The only borderline DM type we have (Song) decided to become a “roaming DM” to the cheers of AKBs and the detached amusement and praise of the AW. Now that has come full circle to bite the team firmly up the rear end. Already slow and completely non dynamic, he is now completely worn out. To beat our first choice DM all you need to do is push the ball to one side and run!
I feel for Fabregas because, the defensive side (his support) of midfield has zero quality, zero depth, zero bite, no speed, no strength, no dynamism – other than Wilshere is a complete noob.
@Fred “Egg on face in embarrassing. Learn from it and move on.”
those are good words to heed, perhaps someone on the site can get you a moist towelette…
@jroybower,
LOL!!!
Look, immediately after you bragged, boasted and slammed “doomers” – reeling in the false euphoria of the fluke Man U win – I responded with REALITY and FACTs to your clown AKB comment. YOU DID NOT RESPOND. Because you knew I was on to something.
Then the Stoke game came along and proved me and every other common sense, non-AKB right.
The Girls have let you down and the A.Wanker doesn’t give two craps about you. Now you are bitter, angry and defensive.
Like I said, get the egg off your face. Learn from it and move on. LOL.
@Fred,
“get the egg off your face. Learn from it and move on. LOL”
The hypocrisy is simply astounding, but within character I suppose :-D
@ArfaSheds,
Who’s talking to you …. go away and try not to slaughter yourselves after every election ….. this is a Realist v. AKB argument …. not Realist v. Lagos Rebels … LOL.
@Fred, LOL! Lagos rebels you are so funny, you serial liar, more facts devoid of truth leads you to make the connection between Sheds and Nigeria.
Realist, the very name is inconsistent with your nature dude. I have never been to Lagos, my parents are not from there but I will go there one day, God willing. But I am sure the people involved in the fighting between ethnic groups in Nigeria don’t feel that they are fighting among themselves, they are different people.
But I suppose a hybrid like yourself may feel you were “slaughtering yourselves” when the Americans kicked your German ass in the WW2 right?
@ArfaSheds,
Hahahah! No need to get defensive man.
Yeah, we did those Germans in good. British, Dutch, German, All American.
You should visit Europe sometime.
@Fred, I live in Europe dummy! :laugh:
@Fred,
Thats what you claim.
@Fred, “I responded with REALITY and FACTs to your clown AKB comment. YOU DID NOT RESPOND. Because you knew I was on to something.”
replace AKB with “monger” and that is exactly what you did when i confronted you with the facts that disputed the basis of your rationale for another tirade about the club. namey you cited as “evidence” that ManUre tickets are 1/4 or 1/3 of Arsenals. i clearly demonstrated that this is wrong, rather than admit it, i think you “yawned”, which is a non-response.
additionally i demonstrated, quite clearly, based on my own actions that i have a realistic view of our team and it’s abilities.
actually, when i think about it, EVERYTIME i’ve asked you a direct question you have failed to respond in a simple, concise, or dircet manager.
@jroybower,
Hahahahahah! Defensive, distorted bullcrap all around from you.
What you term a “realistic view” is nothing more than nonsensical Wengerisms. Come to the new thread and stop hiding on here.
@jroybower,
Hahahahahah! Defensive, distorted bullcrap all around from you.
What you term a “realistic view” is nothing more than nonsensical Wengerisms. Come to the new thread and stop hiding on here.
@Fred, “I responded with REALITY and FACTs to your clown AKB comment. YOU DID NOT RESPOND. Because you knew I was on to something.”
replace AKB with “monger” and that is exactly what you did when i confronted you with the facts that disputed the basis of your rationale for another tirade about the club. namey you cited as “evidence” that ManUre tickets are 1/4 or 1/3 of Arsenals. i clearly demonstrated that this is wrong, rather than admit it, i think you “yawned”, which is a non-response.
additionally i demonstrated, quite clearly, based on my own actions that i have a realistic view of our team and it’s abilities.
actually, when i think about it, EVERYTIME i’ve asked you a direct question you have failed to respond in a simple, concise, or dircet manager.
@Fred “Egg on face in embarrassing. Learn from it and move on.”
those are good words to heed, perhaps someone on the site can get you a moist towelette…
@jroybower, LOL :-D
I am just reading down the comments now that I have a little time. HTS is on point as usual, love reading your posts thoroughly entertaining. There is no better writer on this site apart from Kiwi I suppose.
But JRoyBower is becoming another favourite of mine, he absolutely killed Fred, hilarious. Fred always talking about facts and realism. I conclude after reading the latest expose from JRoy and recalling DAG pointing the Fredmeisters propensity to bend the truth that what Fred talks about is more often than not anti-facts and liarism :-P
@arthur3sheds,
Hahahahahah!
Oh Arthur …. coming out from under your rock. LOL.
What “facts” did your AKB comrade JROY “Egg on face” Bower correct? The “Man U prices are 1/3 that of Arsenal’s”?
Every single thing I said would happen to Arsenal have come thru. Even my prediction after your AKB friends boast last week came thru in short order.
PS: How are things going down there in Nigeria. International media has it that there was a bloodbath going on there after some random elections …….. typical day for your side of the world hey …
I hope you are well.
@Fred,
I thought I read you predicting that Man U was going to stuff us before the game or something to that effect. I also recall you saying something to the effect that Man U should have the title wrapped up or out of our reach by the time we played The Spuds, your facts/realism is slanted again I see. Fred a fact cannot be a fact when it is devoid of truth, sorry that is justthey way it is.
As for Nigerian bloodbaths I have heard nothing of the sort but it nice to see that you have an interest in African affairs. But I think you should be more concerned about the latest bloodbaths Uncle Sam have been causing, in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.
@ArfaSheds,
Oh yeah, I predicted they would stuff us (and they should have) …. but how is an assumption of the result of a game a lie? Or you don’t understand English?? They don’t teach English in your country? Either that or you are incapable of logical thinking.
Let the AKB speak for himself. While you should go back to doing what you do down there. Be well.
PS: Because I have CNN on every morning, I unfortunately have to hear about all the sad tales from you side of things.
@Fred,
LOL!! you are so full of BS Fred it’s funny
“Oh yeah, I predicted they would stuff us (and they should have)” But they didn’t infact we won the game.
You said:
“Every single thing I said would happen to Arsenal have come thru”
I think that makes you a liar dude, regardless of my understanding of English. Dude, you just keep on digging your pit.
@ArfaSheds,
Everything I have said regarding the direction of Arsenal /the season/ the manager …. no need to confuse yourself in false arguments man.
I know logic makes your head hurt, but try it at some point.
Cheers,
@Fred, :-D
Sadly our League Cup demise ended any hope that our season might prove progressive or successful.
Who knows, a win in the League Cup might have given us a little boost and helped our showing in other comps – we certainly needed it. Instead our season-end plays out like riding a bike with a slow leak. Yet again we limp over the finish line in an exceedingly uncomfortable fashion. Meanwhile Ferguson, even with perhaps his most unconvincing squad ever, shows everyone what it means to be a winner.
I haven’t said anything for several months because, frankly, everything has been said repeatedly. And I knew this outcome, just as I’ve feared the outcomes for the last 3 years. Sadly I doubt Wenger will do anything different to what he’s done for the last 5 years. He’s a managerial version of the 30+ year old players that he puts on year-by-year contracts. Now it’s him who has lost the edge – it’s gone – he’s no longer a winner. He’s morphed into a Chief Operating Officer not a Football Manager.
@Kiwi,
You’re right, it’s all been said, and we’ve been saying the same stuff for years. It really has gotten very tiring.
But it’s always good to see you post and that last little bit about CEO was dead on.
@vibe4arsenal,
Thanks man.
I see Wenger as a COO not a CEO. A CEO would be a bit more strategic and pragmatic, seeing the merits in the LC and the FAC and the need to maintain momentum, he’d be doing everything he could to keep fans on-side and attract winning players (who like… winning). The COO, on the other hand, beavers away looking to fine-tune operations and bring efficiencies. Somewhere along the way Wenger’s lost the urgency, the imperative to win. He’s convinced himself it’s not that important – and now he tries to convince everyone else.
@vibe4arsenal,
Fascinating article a few weeks ago from Keith Edelman the former Arsenal FC MD. He described Wenger as very conservative by nature and needing of someone like a David Dein to balance him out. I found that informative and likely quite honest coming from an insider who didn’t personally get along that well with Dein – I’d mused exactly those same thoughts on YAMA in the last couple of years.
Fortunately I did not watch the match but seeing the highlights was enough.
I think Arsene is forced to admit there has been not been any real progress this year. Yep we have a stronger squad but if they fail to mature as fast as he evidently think they can we will be out of the top four next season, the pack is closing in, fast.
We had the title in our hands but we “bottled it” and “choked” again. I think we were worse this season than last in all honesty.
Will Arsene get at least a little ruthless and bring in some steel into that MF, I don’t think he will, he will probably promote Coquelin and Frimpong. I have faith in these guys but they are not ready to keep us in the CL positions next season IMO. I went to the Emirates Cup in the pre-season and saw Frimpong show what a strong and clever player he is, he was very tidy believe me. But I cannot forget how Flamini nonetheless had in his pocket all game. Frimpong is more effective than Song defensively but he has not got that high energy that the likes of Flamini has.
I agree that Vermaelen will not make a real difference. The way we defend as a whole team is the issue. The high defensive line is always vulnerable on the counter in open play and when we are breached in any way, all too often we seem to fall into disarray. Djourou doesn’t seem to be in the best of form (I haven’t watched enough to really comment) but despite that Kos still has to fully adapt to the PL.
Arsene is right to take the blame for the results because it is he who chooses to put faith in his players. Players who are not quite ready yet or simply not suited to as a pair in our 3 man MF I speak of Aaron and Jack. Stoke away may have been too much for our youngsters and Song is not mobile enough to kick arse for them. Not the brightest team selection and Arsene’s enormous faith in the “Bendtmeisters” ability is unwarranted IMO.
Anyway lets hippie hope Arsene will learn something from our last slide and make the changes necessary for another double year next season :-D
And to the AKBs who are doubtlessly going to be bleating on about how Vermaelen would help next season … I preemptively “predict” he will NOT make an iota of difference.
Infact, I am going to “predict” right now, he will be just as “good” as the Koz/DJ combo.
Also: No, Chesny is not the answer to ANY question.
Also: Congrats to A. Wanker for spicing up his tactics for once! No, he did not move from the failed 4-3-3 at any point in the match despite us trailing by 2 goals …. but he made a subtle change. Instead of bringing on slow, tall, big, oaf Bendy and placing him on the right wing, he instead placed him on the …. left wing!
Tactical GENIUS!!!
The best thing about this match is that it puts paid to the “Wilshere and Ramsey will take over from Fabregas” meme that was circulating after the Man U fluke.
With Nasri and Fabregas leaving this summer, our creativity for next season isnt looking very promising.
@Fred, that memo probably came from the same people at the LLC, PLC… that say we have 40,000 people on the Season Ticket Waiting List!
I like Ramsey and Wilshire together in midfield and / or regularly in our team… they both have bright futures, both are British… and probably aren’t seeking greener pastures or going home when they reach 24…
But, neither will be mistaken for Cesc Fabregas in midfield right now…
I am sure Cesc is a goner this Summer, but I think Nasri will stay to become the “New Cesc”… Wenger will give him the Captain’s band, and he’ll stay one more year or so…
That is, if he hasn’t already promised the Captain’s band to RVP, to pacify him, and get him to stay for a few more years. :skeleton:
@stag133,
I strongly doubt Nasri will stay. He has just one year left on his contract, so if Arsenal doesnt sell him this summer, they lose him for free the next.
Why would he stay anyway? To play in a weak team, winning absolutely nothing while having the increased risk of a career threatening injury (being the star player and therefore recipient of more tackles)??
If you are a top player it makes ZERO sense to stay or come to Arsenal under this regime.
I already feel for Aaron Ramsey.
He had the chance to go to Man U, but he decided for the higher wages at Arsenal. If he had gone to Man U, he would have been protected more, had a proper experienced mentor like Scholes and Giggs, been in a strong, experienced side while picking up trophy after trophy. By now, (if he had improved consistently) he would have gotten an upgraded contract.
He blundered big time falling for Wenger’s stories.
@Fred, well, on the positive side… if we sell BOTH Nasri and Cesc, we will bring in some SERIOUS money for the club & board…
That means major profit, money into pockets and coffers… and we can continue to reduce the debt.
That’s the most important thing, right?
Balancing the books, and making money for the club & board.
FIrst and foremost.
Secondarily in importance, is that we are “entertaining”. We just play a gorgeous style of football… that mesmerizes many opponents… we play teams off the pitch in the first 30 minutes, and coast to victory regularly, right? (or was that 6 years ago?)
As long as we make money, reduce the debt, and play entertaing football…. what more can any sucker… er… supporter ask for?
If Cesc & Nasri go… they might as well sell RVP too… and completely go with an under 25 team… sell all players over 25 immediately.
With no Fab or Nas… we’d need to bring in 5 PLAYERS at least.
What are the chances of that happening?
I mean, we ONLY go for “SPECIAL” players… who provide great value for the money spent… the Summer is prices are too high, its a bad time to buy, as prices are inflated, because everyone is looking to improve… we should wait until January, when its also a bad time to buy, because … ummmm oh, right its always a bad time to buy.
In the immortal words of Bananarama… its going to be a “cruel, cruel Summer”.
:skeleton:
@Fred, well, on the positive side… if we sell BOTH Nasri and Cesc, we will bring in some SERIOUS money for the club & board…
That means major profit, money into pockets and coffers… and we can continue to reduce the debt.
That’s the most important thing, right?
Balancing the books, and making money for the club & board.
FIrst and foremost.
Secondarily in importance, is that we are “entertaining”. We just play a gorgeous style of football… that mesmerizes many opponents… we play teams off the pitch in the first 30 minutes, and coast to victory regularly, right? (or was that 6 years ago?)
As long as we make money, reduce the debt, and play entertaing football…. what more can any sucker… er… supporter ask for?
If Cesc & Nasri go… they might as well sell RVP too… and completely go with an under 25 team… sell all players over 25 immediately.
With no Fab or Nas… we’d need to bring in 5 PLAYERS at least.
What are the chances of that happening?
I mean, we ONLY go for “SPECIAL” players… who provide great value for the money spent… the Summer is prices are too high, its a bad time to buy, as prices are inflated, because everyone is looking to improve… we should wait until January, when its also a bad time to buy, because … ummmm oh, right its always a bad time to buy.
In the immortal words of Bananarama… its going to be a “cruel, cruel Summer”.
:skeleton:
@Fred, that memo probably came from the same people at the LLC, PLC… that say we have 40,000 people on the Season Ticket Waiting List!
I like Ramsey and Wilshire together in midfield and / or regularly in our team… they both have bright futures, both are British… and probably aren’t seeking greener pastures or going home when they reach 24…
But, neither will be mistaken for Cesc Fabregas in midfield right now…
I am sure Cesc is a goner this Summer, but I think Nasri will stay to become the “New Cesc”… Wenger will give him the Captain’s band, and he’ll stay one more year or so…
That is, if he hasn’t already promised the Captain’s band to RVP, to pacify him, and get him to stay for a few more years. :skeleton:
Read an interesting fact in the F365 mailbox this morning that I thought I’d contribute to the ongoing Fred vs. Stag, Eto’o vs. Ibrahimovic debate.
Ibra has now won 8 consecutive league titles (and 9 in 10 years) with 5 different teams in 3 different leagues. (I am counting the 2 for Juve which were taken away.)
Ajax: 02, 04
Juve: 05, 06
Inter: 07, 08, 09
Barca: 10
Milan: 11
For the record, I am still in Fred’s corner- I prefer Eto’o- but I’ve got to admit that’s quite a record, and probably more than just coincidence.
@ChicagoGooner,
@ChicagoGooner,
Haha, my favorite topic ….
As a long-time Ajax fan, I know Ibra’s record very well.
Yeah, its just coincidence.
First of all wipe out the Juve titles. They are not in any way real titles, officially or unofficially.
He has won 5 league titles in Spain and Italy. Big whoops. There are tens of players with similar records.
Eto’o destroys him on CLs won, goals in CL finals/SFs/QFs, goals in cups, goals against the top teams of each league. And ofcourse on goals/game scored. But then again, he has the highest stat on that of any player in the last 20 years.
When Ibra makes an impact in the latter stages of the CL for just ONE season, then his fans can talk.
I dont understand how a really top quality player can play one full decade all the top clubs on Spain and Italy and never once make an impact in the CL.
@ChicagoGooner, you are right… its not a coincidence… he’s a WINNER.
AC Milan WON the Serie A, Inter did not…
I would not be surprised at all if Eto is SOLD AGAIN this off-season…
For the record… I NEVER said Ibra was BETTER than Eto.
I said REPEATEDLY, that they are comparable players statistically.
And … once again, there were this year as well.
Eto has: 20 goals / 9 assists
Ibra has: 14 goals / 11 assists
And Ibra’s team WON the league.
You want stats? or trophies?
I reiterate, Eto is a very good player… excellent at times, but apparently is a cancer in the locker room, otherwise, why is he sold so frequently. If he was so good at Barcelona, why’d they jettison him?
Just gives you pause to reflect on…
Would be nice to have either at Arsenal, but they are the type of players we’d SELL, not buy.
@ChicagoGooner, you are right… its not a coincidence… he’s a WINNER.
AC Milan WON the Serie A, Inter did not…
I would not be surprised at all if Eto is SOLD AGAIN this off-season…
For the record… I NEVER said Ibra was BETTER than Eto.
I said REPEATEDLY, that they are comparable players statistically.
And … once again, there were this year as well.
Eto has: 20 goals / 9 assists
Ibra has: 14 goals / 11 assists
And Ibra’s team WON the league.
You want stats? or trophies?
I reiterate, Eto is a very good player… excellent at times, but apparently is a cancer in the locker room, otherwise, why is he sold so frequently. If he was so good at Barcelona, why’d they jettison him?
Just gives you pause to reflect on…
Would be nice to have either at Arsenal, but they are the type of players we’d SELL, not buy.
@stag133,
The Barca stadium chanted Eto’o song when Inter went to the Camp Nou in last year – whilst getting hugs from all the Barca players. Doesn’t sound like “cancer in the locker room” to me. He was there 5 years, thats a long time in football, people move on.
Sold so often? He has only transferred for twice in his career. Ibra is a serial offender on that count.
Statistically they are not comparable. Just because Adebayor and Henry both scored 30 goals, doesn’t make them equals. Eto’os goals/game record and trophy haul in the long-term is just insane.
Ibra is the type of player who has the talent to actually be world-class. But he is a 29 year old floater. When he makes a proper impact in the CL latter stages for just one season, then I will respect him.
——————————————————————————
PS: All that said, I’ll take Ibra over Robin “god” Persie. Ofcourse he wont help us at all in the CL or any cups, but maybe he can help in the EPL.
Infact at this stage, I will take any striker who can run properly – without looking strange.
Funny stuff there from Fred and Jroy…..Personally I think arguing about “facts” is a dead end. Soon enough it will be the silly season and headlines from the English tabloids will be trotted out as undisputed truths, and we will have a summer’s worth of being told what fools we are for having a fondness for the Arsenal, or otherwise being “supporters”….
Still, it’s good that some are taking on the “Revolutionaries.” I guess the AKBs aren’t quite as bad as the Syrians and nobody’s getting gunned down in the streets….. To his everlasting credit, Mubarek (aka DAG) hasn’t even shut down the internet, but you know what happened to him…. And on the plus side Fred is starting to respond to his own posts (as, to be fair, I sometimes do with mine). Such is the “level” of the “debate” in these dark times. It would be nice if we could respond with civility and respect to one another, but alas, some posters are too busy rubbing rabbit’s feet (or other things?) hoping to ward off the various jinxes that (obviously….) are at the heart of the club’s bad results…..
Enough said, and I’ve got my own blog to write…. So here goes….
The team (and the club) are in real trouble. I’d say that English football was also in trouble except that there are some great battles (and stories) happening up and down the table and it’s by far the most interesting end of the season in a while. United I fear, even with a “home” crowd, will have trouble giving Barca a game at Wembley, despite starting with 11 players and only having to play 90 (or 120) mins. Barca, of course, will have 12 (the Swiss ref, who sent RVP off)…..
They did, however, do the business on (trophyless) Chelsea, w/o even having to employ the ace up their sleeve (Howard Webb). And they did so without using players like Nani, Berbatov, Evra and Scholes, not too mention Anderson, who will likely turn out a better player than any of our Brazillian MFs, and Fletcher who presents a combo of craft and graft better than our British equivalents.
On that note, those players were simply woeful yesterday. Theo was invisible, but maybe that was because if he were seen it would only demonstrate that he can’t get a touch right. Likewise, I wouldn’t have known Ramsey was on the pitch, but for the Stoke fans booing him. Jack was a (petulant) boy among men and only just failed to break Pennant’s leg. What did Pennant say, and was Jack hoping for the rest of the season off and getting fashion tips sitting in the stands next to Cesc? Kieran Gibbs, the solution at LB? Sorry…..
You can go down the team and to a man it was all bad, though maybe RVP can be spared criticism as he scored (chocolate foot) to make up for his missed header at the near post which allowed Stoke’s DECISIVE first goal. Digging deep for positives, Rosicky looked almost as good as Luka Modric in his little run-out….
But back to the longer term…..It will be interesting to see if Man City win the two cups (the FA and qualifying for the CL) over their next three matches (Spurs, Stoke in the cup and league) or if yesterday’s opponent can use their English style to claim some Sheik scalp. Regardless, ALL of those teams will relish their matches with us next season, Spurs and Stoke because they’ve got our number, City because another 100-200 million will shore up their weaknesses…..
Likewise Chelsea will start a rebuilding process with a new manager and players and money, while teams like Liverpool and even Fulham and maybe even Aston Villa (woe be unto us if we don’t grovel for some respect in these last two matches….) will all be on the rise. IMO there IS greater parity in the league and it starts with the fact that nobody fears Arsenal, (not even at the Emirates, where the team plays in abject fear of their ripped-off ticket holders)…..
So where do we go from here? Many say chuck the manager and the captain and start anew, after all, how much worse could it be? Sorry, A) it could be much worse (see Liverpool’s last two seasons….), and B) it ain’t gonna happen (so why worry about it, to paraphrase my friend, Mr. Sheds….)
Instead, the club needs to instill some leadership and commitment with the only tool it has: MONEY. Put Cesc, RVP (who has stayed uninjured for a full half season, if that oxymoron makes sense….) Nasri, Jack Ramsey, Sagna, TV5 and LK6 (our CBs of the future….) and the BiPoles in Goal on big(ger)/long(er) contracts, sell the rest (or as many as you can….) and pray that the ones you can’t (Diaby, Song, Clichy, Djourou, Theo) etc., can take some baby steps forward while some loanees (por favor, Carlitos…..) can, like Jack going over that ball to maim Pennant, leapfrog a couple in the pecking order. Depending on who goes there MIGHT be some transfers, but anybody thinking it won’t be like for (younger) like, hasn’t been paying attention…..Remember, lack of player sales is why we reported a LOSS in 2010….. Any other approach, I fear, and that battle for 4th (next season) is gonna take everything we’ve got (including early exits from ALL the cups)…..
Sorry to paint such a bleak picture, and as always, I hope I’m wrong….. But, in the cold light of Monday morning, there you go…..
@highburyterracesteve,
Money is not a tool of this club. That would imply that they use it to help attain some end or goal, which they don’t.
lol gotto say Djourou has performed an outstanding optical illusion which has duped 90% of Arsenal fans.
Before he came back we were still shipping goals and as soon as he comes back and has like one or two decent games largely because the defence was untroubled – he’s suddenly our saviour and hero.
He is a truly awful defender and will always be exposed. Always lets his man run across him, Jones yesterday. Comical for the 3rd, and against bolton he was at it too.
I always knew how bad he was since he was on loan at birmingham.
@Rocky,
You can add Gibbs, Song and even the Great Chesny to the list of dupes.
Last notes:
Kieran Gibbs, I hear is complaining about not playing enough!!! LOL.
The guy has turned into a disaster since October. Yet he wants to play more???
I completely dislike Clichy but the only way we can actually do worse than Gael is to use Gibbs!
Gibbs is the new Gavin Hoyte!
—————————————————————————
Maroune Chamakh is hands down the most “incredible” striker in history!
Did anyone else see that his “shot” on 53rd minute???
LOL! To think we waited to get this guy!
First he’s bold and brazen, then cocky and smug, then disappointed but ‘confident’, and a while later, riled and defensive, and then finally…. defeatist and beaten.
Yep, another season of the joke that is Arsene Wenger.
Really couldn’t have predicted this at all. No, really…..
@Mazza,
Classic!
@ jroy:
Awwww … didn’t mean to hurt your feelings! ;-)
Your post Man U comment had 7 points all dripping in sarcasm attacking so-called “doomers”. Needless to say all the listed points are hilariously bang on! The Man U game was completely, utterly and thoroughly meaningless.
“most of my posts here are a simple attempt at thinking though an issue, using facts and information, presenting or considering other ideas using a somewhat devil’s advocate ”
Aha, when it comes to the Wenger Girls, “facts and information” will completely eviscerate any illusion of competence or direction of the whole Wenger ship.
And you know it.
But ofcourse Denial is a lovely tropical island, so I am not surprised a lot of people prefer to dwell there.
@Fred,
As for the whole waiting list brouhaha, that link is just PURE PROPAGANDA from …. Arsenal.con.
A concerted effort to try to pressure current ticket holders from dropping.
Three seasons ago, Arseblog (who is generally reputable) reported on how Arsenal were using early summer (late May/early June) transfer rumors and positive transfer statements by Wenger to convince season ticket holders to re-sign.
They have done the very same thing for each of the last 3 summers. If a club has such a “large” waiting list, why the need to resort to such? LOL.
Plus, Man U has a waiting list less than 20,000.
A Dutch friend of mine who is moving to the Manchester area from Eindhoven for work, put his name on the Man U waiting list in April and he got a list number in the 7000s meaning that it is very possible Man U dont even have up to 10,000 on their waiting list!!!!
Man U tickets are on average 1/3 or 1/4th the price of that of Arsenal. The win yearly and are not run by some bullshit French Twat manager running the club into the ground.
So I call BS on the Arsenal.con number.
PS: Arsenal.con hilariously started a “Transfer rumors” section on their site last summer!!!!! LOOL!
If that cant stop people from taking that site seriously, I don’t know what will.
@Fred, WOW you love to play fast and loose with facts. you just can’t seem to be bothered with thinking about what you say or even checking to see if what you blather about is actually true and not just conjecture on your part…
that’s fine if you choose to not want to belive the arsenal website, but you can’t dismiss it without providing factual information that proves that is wrong. just because YOU dismiss the information as propaganda doesn’t make it true.
some half assed story about a friend of friends brother’s nephew’s half baked story about what happens at another club in another city with different demographics is NOT proof to the contrary. it is a total BS argument. did you ever stop to think for more than second that the assignment of numbers might not be chronological?!?! that perhaps, depending on the price of the tickets they are on a different waiting list with different numbering schemes? also ManUre is not Arsenal (for better or worse…) it is a totaly invalid comparison othe than that both play in the EPL [and for the record i appreciate your healthy sense of skeptism for the official website] but you need to PROVE IT, or i call BS on you (again)…
but wait there is more nonsense in your latest tirade. ticket prices…
ManUre average ticket prices are NOT 1/4 to 1/3 the price of Arsenal tickets. btw-i think what you MEANT to say is they are 1/4 to 1/3 LESS than Arsenal tickets. again demonstrating you lack a basic understanding of mathematics. but guess what? that’s not true either!!!
yes a qucik trip to the the “official” websites of the respective clubs shows the range of ticket prices. if you compare the most expensive seats at the emirates to the most expensice at ManUre then ours are 50% more expensive. however, if you look at the average ticket price, which is what your claim was, the average ticket price for the emirates is ~ 20% higher or alternatively ManUre tickers are about 1/5 less. further analysis shows that if you were to exlude the handful of truly premium seats in the highest category at the emirates than our ticket are on average only about ~11% higher. this includes the additional cost assoicated with scheme A and B, which i suspect is also true and ManUre, but is not posted on the webiste. excluding the premium games and the average difference is even less….
this is what is called providing factual information not wild speculation that supports your argument. please continue spouting nonsense, but at some point all of your arguments become less credible when a reader can’t believe what you say. just sayin’.
@jroybower,
Hahahhahahahahahahahahah!!!
Defensive and emotional – the trademark of an attacked AKB! :-)
Spin the semantics all you want. The most expensive ticket at Man U is less than a grand according to their website.
While at Arsenal there are general pop. prices close to 2 grand. Ofcourse the high end folks could reach up to 4000.
Play with the semantics all you want. LOL.
————————————————————
The Arsenal board have ZERO regard for the fans. They have absolute disdain for the fans. And believe it or not they dont give a fuck about YOU, despite your hilarious defense of the greedy leaches!
They are almost certainly LYING. They have never released a number of those on their waiting list before (no club does) so why do they do so in mid-May after a massively disappointing season. Why cos, they need to pressure ticket holders.
There is NO legal requirement for Arsenal to reveal this information or to tell the truth. It is not financial data or any sort of officially reported data. They can literally give ANY number they want. Companies try to manipulate and pressure their customer base ALL the time. Nothing shocking in there. The only shock is the sheep customer who defend the company till the very last :… LOL!
Arsenal LLC, Inc is a large corporation – not a religious entity or some other wholesome organization like Unicef or whatever …. for you to be defending this corporation shows how much of a sheep you might actually be.
———————————————————————-
PS: I LOVE they way you have completely diverted from the whole issue at hand … the Wenger Girls smacking y’all square in the face with eggs after you had defended them previously.
That must be painful. But no need to get into a defensive, emotional tirade. :-)
@Fred, now you have me laughing out loud!
firstly, i am not defending the ticket pricing scheme of AFC LLC PLC Ltd Inc. i mearly pointing out that continue to pull “facts” out of thin air.
secondly, i’m glad you made it over to the ManUre website to check out their prices for season tickets. unfortunately you failed to read the (not so) fine print and are comparing apples to oranges. the price for the most expensive seat at old trafford is GBP 931/year or 49/game, BUT all season ticket holder are also REQUIRED to buy an additional 14 games that are not included in the price which brings that ACTUAL cost of season tickets to GBP 1617. AFC’s most expensive (comparable) ticket is GBP 1995, which is about 20% more at the high end. at the low end the difference is 891 vs. 995 which is about a 11% premium. the point is your original claim is total bunk. again, i’m not defending AFC’s policies merely pointing out (again) that much of what you claim to be true isn’t actually true. btw-you might be interested to learn that the annual cost of living in London is 15-20% higher than living in Manchester. any chance that has “some” impact on the price disparity….
thirdly, you spent a lot of time talking about how you can’t get the numbers from AFC and that they are lying. so, how about this? you say the wating list is 2k, AFC says 40k. the truth is probably somwhere in between, but there is a 2000% percent difference in the estimates. can you prove to the readers of this site (or me) that your estimate is better and should be trusted more than AFC’s? i would actually like to know the answer to this question and it would do our community a great service if you could find out the answer. perhaps you’ve got a buddy in the ticket office or a freind over at AA that can shed some light for us…
finally, i just don’t get the whole “egg on face” stuff from you. the “list” i put together were reasons why an AKB wouldn’t post positive comments about the ManUre result. they weren’t positive comments, although in my mind it was a good result. but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a one off performance and that i expected great things against stoke.
i can (sort of) demonstrate exactly the opposite thought process and my (maybe you can’t) ability to independently evaluate games. i didn’t play sneezy in our fantasy league because i rated the chance of a clean sheet at close to zero against stoke. i also dropped and traded away nasri from my team because i’m not expecting goal production in general for this team for the rest of the year. i did play (but did not make captain alas) RvP as he’s been consistently scoring points. btw- you can validate this claim should you chose by going to the league table and checking my team. i think that this AN objective example of how one can be pleased with the result last week and still maintain a “feet on ground” stance on our team from week to week. you seem to think that these are some how mutually exclusive, care to explain that logic some more?
@jroybower,
Yawn.
@Fred, i’ll take that as a surrender. for you, it’s the easy way out when you can’t admit you were wrong… no worries, i’ll be happy to continue to be your personal snopes.com on yama when you make stuff up.
@Fred, i’ll take that as a surrender. for you, it’s the easy way out when you can’t admit you were wrong… no worries, i’ll be happy to continue to be your personal snopes.com on yama when you make stuff up.
@Fred,
Nope, the yawn signifies how bored I am of your AKB bullsh%t and I couldnt be bothered to read your obsfuscating bible.
Egg on face in embarrassing. Learn from it and move on.
@Fred, now you have me laughing out loud!
firstly, i am not defending the ticket pricing scheme of AFC LLC PLC Ltd Inc. i mearly pointing out that continue to pull “facts” out of thin air.
secondly, i’m glad you made it over to the ManUre website to check out their prices for season tickets. unfortunately you failed to read the (not so) fine print and are comparing apples to oranges. the price for the most expensive seat at old trafford is GBP 931/year or 49/game, BUT all season ticket holder are also REQUIRED to buy an additional 14 games that are not included in the price which brings that ACTUAL cost of season tickets to GBP 1617. AFC’s most expensive (comparable) ticket is GBP 1995, which is about 20% more at the high end. at the low end the difference is 891 vs. 995 which is about a 11% premium. the point is your original claim is total bunk. again, i’m not defending AFC’s policies merely pointing out (again) that much of what you claim to be true isn’t actually true. btw-you might be interested to learn that the annual cost of living in London is 15-20% higher than living in Manchester. any chance that has “some” impact on the price disparity….
thirdly, you spent a lot of time talking about how you can’t get the numbers from AFC and that they are lying. so, how about this? you say the wating list is 2k, AFC says 40k. the truth is probably somwhere in between, but there is a 2000% percent difference in the estimates. can you prove to the readers of this site (or me) that your estimate is better and should be trusted more than AFC’s? i would actually like to know the answer to this question and it would do our community a great service if you could find out the answer. perhaps you’ve got a buddy in the ticket office or a freind over at AA that can shed some light for us…
finally, i just don’t get the whole “egg on face” stuff from you. the “list” i put together were reasons why an AKB wouldn’t post positive comments about the ManUre result. they weren’t positive comments, although in my mind it was a good result. but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a one off performance and that i expected great things against stoke.
i can (sort of) demonstrate exactly the opposite thought process and my (maybe you can’t) ability to independently evaluate games. i didn’t play sneezy in our fantasy league because i rated the chance of a clean sheet at close to zero against stoke. i also dropped and traded away nasri from my team because i’m not expecting goal production in general for this team for the rest of the year. i did play (but did not make captain alas) RvP as he’s been consistently scoring points. btw- you can validate this claim should you chose by going to the league table and checking my team. i think that this AN objective example of how one can be pleased with the result last week and still maintain a “feet on ground” stance on our team from week to week. you seem to think that these are some how mutually exclusive, care to explain that logic some more?
It is just hilarious how we got 75% of the possession in this game BUT still manage to have FEWER shots on target AND concede THREE goals. Ofcourse Stoke had ALL the great chances!
That is complete, utter, total defensive and offensive INCOMPETENCE. Anyone remember the time when we created so many shots on target we couldnt score because the keepers were saving ’em? Now we are at the level where we have just 2 or 3 shots on target each game!!! Beyond pathetic.
At ANY other club in the world, in ANY league, in ANY era, the manager overseeing this sort of nonsense would have been FIRED without compensation.
But at the Wenger Girls FC, LLC, Inc, the board and a large swathe of fans still lick the French Twat’s knob!
This match is dedicated to JROYBOWER (and any other AKB who “boasted” after the Man U game).
The egg the Wenger Girls have thrown on your faces can probably be removed with a warm washcloth.
EVERY SINGLE TIME AKBs “brag” after a hollow win or try to belittle realists …. the team LOSES the very next game! It has happened so many times this season it is hilarious.
AKBs, please learn your lesson for next season.
@Fred, hey Fred fuck you. you’re really “starting” to be a total asshole on this site.
i didn’t “boast” after the ManUre game (do you want quotes from my post?). i said, or at least suggested, that the team deserved a pat on the back for playing a decent game and getting a result. at least it means that next season we won’t be saying we haven’t beating ManUre in X number of years. that i thought we did play a decent game DOES NOT mean that I thought that our team were now all conquering giants of the game and would win-out the rest of the season and all is right with the world. can you explain that logic to me?
this team, for the last few years, has been totally and completely inconsistent and i’m not surprised (dissappointed yes) by the result today. you sound like maybe your superstitious that a positive comment will jinx the team?
i don’t get how paying compliment to a player or team equates with the sudden unabashed sense that i (or anyone else) think that Arsene Knows Best. i really really really really really hate repeating myself (clearly that’s all you know how to do because i can’t think of something new or orignal you’ve said in about 4 months), but for the last time: I AM NOT AN AKB. attempting to be positive about the team and club DOES NOT EQUAL saying everything is great and wonderful and things shouldn’t/can’t be changed. do i think you have ALL the right answers? no. some? yes.
i dunno, were you beaten and berated as a child (or to this day at work) so that the only way you know how to communicate is shout, berrate, and spew negativity about something?? have you EVER received a compliment or said something positive? (that’s rhetorical, although you’ll probably answer that question, heaven forbid you answer a direct question…)
most of my posts here are a simple attempt at thinking though an issue, using facts and information, presenting or considering other ideas using a somewhat devil’s advocate approach to help me (or others) make informed opinions that can change through time as situations change.
btw-i posted a link on the last thread and it didnt’ come through (awaiting moderation). the answer to your wild speculation about the waiting list is 40,000. i know you are shocked, shocked by this revelation.
how about contributing something to this site other than mindless speculation and ballyhoo, “shouting” at people who offer alternative opinions, suggestions, or ideas of what a “fan” is or must be, or offering thrice daily diatribes about how Wenger should be fired. EVERYONE who reads this site knows that is your stance. how about contributing something original or something without using ALL CAPS for a change? i “think” you are capable of that, but i tend to give people the benefit of the doubt…
@Fred, hey Fred fuck you. you’re really “starting” to be a total asshole on this site.
i didn’t “boast” after the ManUre game (do you want quotes from my post?). i said, or at least suggested, that the team deserved a pat on the back for playing a decent game and getting a result. at least it means that next season we won’t be saying we haven’t beating ManUre in X number of years. that i thought we did play a decent game DOES NOT mean that I thought that our team were now all conquering giants of the game and would win-out the rest of the season and all is right with the world. can you explain that logic to me?
this team, for the last few years, has been totally and completely inconsistent and i’m not surprised (dissappointed yes) by the result today. you sound like maybe your superstitious that a positive comment will jinx the team?
i don’t get how paying compliment to a player or team equates with the sudden unabashed sense that i (or anyone else) think that Arsene Knows Best. i really really really really really hate repeating myself (clearly that’s all you know how to do because i can’t think of something new or orignal you’ve said in about 4 months), but for the last time: I AM NOT AN AKB. attempting to be positive about the team and club DOES NOT EQUAL saying everything is great and wonderful and things shouldn’t/can’t be changed. do i think you have ALL the right answers? no. some? yes.
i dunno, were you beaten and berated as a child (or to this day at work) so that the only way you know how to communicate is shout, berrate, and spew negativity about something?? have you EVER received a compliment or said something positive? (that’s rhetorical, although you’ll probably answer that question, heaven forbid you answer a direct question…)
most of my posts here are a simple attempt at thinking though an issue, using facts and information, presenting or considering other ideas using a somewhat devil’s advocate approach to help me (or others) make informed opinions that can change through time as situations change.
btw-i posted a link on the last thread and it didnt’ come through (awaiting moderation). the answer to your wild speculation about the waiting list is 40,000. i know you are shocked, shocked by this revelation.
how about contributing something to this site other than mindless speculation and ballyhoo, “shouting” at people who offer alternative opinions, suggestions, or ideas of what a “fan” is or must be, or offering thrice daily diatribes about how Wenger should be fired. EVERYONE who reads this site knows that is your stance. how about contributing something original or something without using ALL CAPS for a change? i “think” you are capable of that, but i tend to give people the benefit of the doubt…
@jroybower, probably Arsenal Football Club claiming that there is a 40,000 waiting list for season tickets… so they can justify any price increase they want… I highly doubt it, especially after yet another year of rhetoric and non-sense from Wenger, and another year without winning a damned thing.
But hey, that’s just me… I am sure others believe whatever the Arsenal Football Club put out there.
@jroybower, probably Arsenal Football Club claiming that there is a 40,000 waiting list for season tickets… so they can justify any price increase they want… I highly doubt it, especially after yet another year of rhetoric and non-sense from Wenger, and another year without winning a damned thing.
But hey, that’s just me… I am sure others believe whatever the Arsenal Football Club put out there.
@jroybower,
Hahahaha! Check out my response up top.
No need to get super defensive and emotional! :-)
That was truly abject stuff. NO leadership in the spine of the team. Our ‘impact’ subs have been lame donkeys all season. Even the otherwise improving Dhjorou was a sorry spectacle. The only ones who really gave a shit were Van P. and Wilshere,
Please, Arsene, do some shopping this summer.
Wonderful stuff from Arsenal today.
Wenger says we have a 5% chance of WINNING THE LEAGUE, prior to the match…
So, for Wenger at least… it was a BIG match… which he relayed to his team.
Stoke are in 12th or so, coming into the match, and have their BIGGEST game EVER… next week, the FA Cup Final. So, they should be playing not to get injured. Nothing in it for them.
Even ficticious “pressure” on the current Arsenal team, and they fold up like an accordian.
They should make DVD’s of todays match… because it is a great example of WHAT THE TEAM IS ALL ABOUT. It is a great microcosm of the 2010-2011 season… and the current squad.
Stoke is a mid-table team, and they beat the hell out of us… no fear whatsoever of Arsenal, took us for the weak team we are… pathetic defense, shit offense… and frankly… as I have said for the last few months… the team playing like THEY JUST DON’T CARE!!!
How can you get past that little fact? The team plays with no heart or spirit, and can’t be bothered to give equal or greater effort than its opponent on a regular basis.
Hope you AKBers enjoyed another wonderful match …
I’m going to watch 2 teams play for a title… and dream of a time when Arsenal will be back at that level.
(already 1-0 United in 35 seconds) :skeleton:
Oh. One last note for you folks that believe Wenger and the current Arsenal play such a special brand of football, the proper way… and teams like Stoke or Blackburn or Bolton are thugs, and we are squeaky clean.
ARSENAL are 18TH in the Fair Play Table… among the MOST yellow cards, and with 6 REDS, only one team has 7.
This is the CURRENT Arsenal.
I want MY Arsenal back. Please.
When the commentator said of Wenger
“There’s an air of resignation on his face.”
I thought
“If only…”
See how wrong you can be, stagg? Not ‘meaningless’ at all. Today’s match was, in fact, a meaningful final nail in the coffin of “But look how we’ve improved!” argument.
And good news for the AKBers, who can resume/continue to enjoy their early Summer holiday.
@vibe4arsenal,
“When the commentator said of Wenger
“There’s an air of resignation on his face.”
I thought
“If only…””
LOL that’s funny. At least you understand that his resignation is the most you will ever get. The manager of the decade leaves when he wants to…. and not a minute before.
Stag 133
Now why do I think you are lying to your self?
@ozed, in what respect would I be lying to myself?
I wish the match mattered, and I wish I cared more…
but its been reduced to a meaningless game … we’re all set for 3rd place… without shit to play for.
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meaningless.
hope nobody significant gets injured.
wouldn’t waste Vermaelen on this now.
will read the Sunday paper with half an eye on the match.
this is what Wenger reaps… meaningless last 3 matches, while Chelsea play United for it all.
yawn. :skeleton:
We hate them and they hate us. To be honest there is not one team in this division who likes stoke. There are many who have defended them when not playing them and i’m one who defends their right to play their brand of football. But every game they make cringe-worthy tackles and it was no surprise that with how pumped up they get and how brittle we are it was us who suffered at their hands.
After the tackle ramsey was distraught, he was in fear of his career and no doubt would like to concentrate on his recovery. Half-hearted apologies through stokes PR and from texts mean nothing. And besides aaron never declined apologies and thanked everyone that needed to be thanked.
Stoke are a club that make-up rivalries in football. Just ask man united fans. Theyre generally a horrible bunch and apparently one of the worse for singing munich songs. I do like how they refer to ramseys nationality when branding him names. Quick to forget that pulis is welsh as is a couple of their players.
The difference between them and birmingham was mcleish and taylor made the situatuion all about eduardo. There was no sympathy chasing. It was a mistimed tackle as was shawcross’s but they didnt see the need to ram home the fact that he is not that sort of player. Unlike stoke who tried to turn everything on how unfortunate stoke and shawcross were. didums to them.
Horrible club. Horrible fans
Good stuff DAG, and tomorrow should be a good day for watching English football given the level of bile between us and Stoke and that other match up at OT….
Ramsey, I predict, will take much of the Braveheart-style silliness out of the tie with a simple limp grasp of Shawcross’ hand. After that it will be football…. Football and that TWAT (Towel Wipe And Throw) stuff that Stoke favor. I would love to see Sneezy, LK6 and TV5 repulse TWAT after TWAT after TWAT…..
Watching Ramsey last week, I think, like all intelligent injured players he’s been watching and learning. Compared to his play before the injury his pace is muted but his calmness and decisiveness seems enhanced. He really did look fairly Cesc-like vs Man United and unlikely to go on the head down runs (with a somewhat panicked final ball) that I remember. Hopefully he’s still got that burst of speed and creativity while understanding that giveaways (esp. in our half) are to be avoided as much as killer final balls are to be sought.
Anyhow, looking forward to it and hoping that the player and his teammates make the emotion of the tie work for us….
@highburyterracesteve, btw, it is twitchy bum time at the top of the fantasy league, 12 pt gap from first to fourth so anything could happen.
of course stagg can yawn about that too as is so firmly mid-pack that he probably stopped caring about his team the same time he gave up on Arsenal this season. perhaps at the end of season award ceremony we can give him the “Tony Pullis Trophy” for the one who talks/shouts the most but fails to deliver…
@highburyterracesteve, btw, it is twitchy bum time at the top of the fantasy league, 12 pt gap from first to fourth so anything could happen.
of course stagg can yawn about that too as he is sooo firmly mid-pack that he probably stopped caring about his team the same time he gave up on Arsenal this season. perhaps at the end of season award ceremony we can give him the “Tony Pullis Trophy” for the one who talks/shouts the most but fails to deliver…
@jroybower, It all ended for Stag back on Sept 1, when we failed to buy Schwarzer….. That’s when he begged off the site. Luckily we were equally pitiful in the January transfer window so he was able to come back and “re-invest”, or something….. In happier news (for him) QPR will not receive a points deduction….. And there’s another transfer window right around the corner! Insanity, however, is expecting different results….
Being in the photo finish in the fantasy league is a thrill for me as it’s my first time I’ve tried such a thing. For me it’s provided a measure of interest amidst all the turmoil. I did some serious transfer work before this weekend’s matches including selling El Capitan. The goals (and assists) will have to come from elsewhere….In his stead, I picked up a young, dirt-cheap GK, with too many consonants in his name. My prayer is that he can shore things up at the back so that Cesc will not be missed….. (Or maybe, in real life, he can convince Cesc and others that Arsenal is the best team in the world…..)
It all serves to make some of the other matches more interesting. Alice the Goon stood tall to block a Pen, then gave one away so he’s both hero and goat, but Spurs only gain a point on City when they should’ve gotten three. I guess it leads to a tiny bit of intrigue for their midweek match…..
I’ll be there tomorrow in the GDC, but I worry….Stoke on their narrowed pitch are tough and we will need to be likewise. We will play for pride and mathematical possibilities, they won’t want to limp into their cup final….. Hopefully we can give them some wounds to lick with the fact that they’re going and we’re not….